Where the death toll from israels two week bombardment has topped 4100. As President Biden seeks 74 billion for israel and ukraine, well speak to palestinian analyst tareq baconi, author of hamas contained the rise pacification of Palestinian Resistance. Then we continue our conversation with the legendary israeli journalist amira hass, who has reported from the occupied west bank and gaza for over 30 years. The israeli right ring and the settler right wing has been pushing for wars because in order to achieve the grand plan of repeating and completing 1948 the nakba. Amy all that and more, coming up. Welcome to democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. Palestinian Health Officials in the gaza strip say the death toll from two weeks of unrelenting israeli attacks has topped 4100, with over 13,000 wounded. More than 1000 gaza residents remain missing, many of them under the rubble of collapsed homes. In one overnight incident, the Saint Porphyrius Greek Orthodox Church in gaza city, which was sheltering hundreds of displaced palestinians, was struck by an apparent israeli air strike. Gaza Officials Say 18 christian palestinians were killed. Part of the 12th century structure, one of the oldest churches in the world, was reduced to rubble. This is a survivor. They came here to escape the airstrikes. They thought they were safe here. The destruction followed them. Biden, youre giving all your support to israel to kill the civilians. Amy gazas hospitals are on the brink of collapse with shortages of fuel, electricity, and critical medical supplies. Doctors at nasser hospital in khan younis have resorted to using vinegar to treat infected wounds. According to gazas ministry of housing, at least 30 of the territorys Housing Units have been destroyed, rendered uninhabitable, or damaged. This is asmaa sabah, whose family has been forced to move to a makeshift tent city in khan younis. Now live like our ancestors in 1948. We are displaced from our homes. We live in tents. Just like our ancestors. We never expected to be here. Oh, world, have mercy on us. We are tired. What does israel what from us . We are displaced from our homes. What more do they want . Amy earlier today, u. N. Secretarygeneral Antonio Guterres arrived at the egyptian side of the rafah Border Crossing to gaza, where a humanitarian aid convoy remained stuck friday despite a deal to allow the passage of the first 20 trucks. Guterres urged israeli and egyptian officials to open the crossing as soon as possible to allow food, water, medicine, and fuel to be delivered at scale, calling it the difference between life or death for so many people. In the occupied west bank, the Palestinian HealthMinistry Says 13 people were killed thursday as Israeli Forces bombed and raided the nur shams refugee camp. Seven of those killed were children, two of them just 10 years old. Meanwhile, human Rights Groups report heavily armed israelis from illegal settlements, sometimes backed by israeli soldiers, have increasingly forced palestinian bedouin villagers from their west bank homes, seizing the properties. On thursday, israels defense minister yoav gallant told soldiers massed near the gaza border they would soon see the territory from the inside, suggesting a Ground Invasion is imminent. There can be no forgiveness, only total annihilation of the hamas organization. Everything that has to do with terrorists and whoever sent them. It will take a week, a month, two months until we eliminate them. You are not alone in battle. Amy President Biden is set to deliver a request to congress for additional 100 billion in funding to aid u. S. Allies and to further militarize the u. S. Mexico border. Reuters reports the request includes 60 billion for ukraine, 14 billion for israel, and another 14 billion for socalled border security. Biden made the case for the extraordinary foreign aid package during a prime time address from the oval office thursday. Pres. Biden we are facing Inflection Point in history. One of those moments with the decision we make today will determine the future for decades to come. Amy bidens remarks came after more than 400 congressional staffers signed a joint letter urging congress to back a ceasefire between israel and hamas. The staffers write we have appreciated seeing nearly every member of Congress Express quick and unequivocal solidarity with the israeli people, but we are profoundly disturbed that such shows of humanity have barely been extended to the Palestinian People. Chinese president xi jinping has called for a ceasefire in gaza to allow humanitarian aid into the besieged palestinian territory. His first public remarks on the conflict came as he met egypts Prime Minister in beijing on thursday. The pentagon says it has thwarted a series of drone attacks aimed at bases housing u. S. Forces in iraq and syria. A pentagon spokesperson said thursday the u. S. Will respond to the attacks after several trips were injured. The pentagon also said a u. S. Navy warship intercepted missiles from who the rebels toward israel. Citizens were advised to leave lebanon as fears grow that israels assault on gaza will lead to a wider were across the middle east. The british Prime Minister traveled to saudi arabia thursday for talks with Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman and other top saudi officials. His office of the leaders agreed to work to prevent any further escalation of the war in gaza. He met with netanyahu in jerusalem where he pledged u. K. Support for israels military campaign in gaza. He is traveling to egypt today for talks with president elsisi. Thousands of protesters rallied in paris, france to demand a , thursday ceasefire in the gaza strip. The protest proceeded only after officials granted them permission following a weeklong ban on propalestine protests in france. These two protesters spoke with france 24 television. We are here to show our support for the Palestinian People. It has been 75 years of colonization in their fighting for the right independent sense of determination. Were here to show the we havent forgotten them. We see proisraeli demonstrations going on without problems. When you try to defend palestine, not civilians. Amy in pakistan, hundreds of protesters rallied in the capital islamabad thursday for a palestinian solidarity march. This is pakistani gender equality and human rights activist tahira abdullah. Instead of a two state solution, were going to one state solution and that one state is only right stuff where is palestine . Should the palestinians jump into the sea . Where should they go . There is nowhere for them. Rocco was the time the little strip and israel has taken them out of gaza. We absolutely demand United Nations should do something finally after 75 years of absolutely useless amy propalestine demonstrations have also continued in lebanon, jordan, egypt, algeria, and across the middle east and north africa. In haiti, a former Justice Ministry official and key suspect in the assassination of haitian president Jovenel Moise two years ago was arrested thursday. Joseph felix badio emerged as a prime suspect in the murder after a team of colombian hitmen, arrested just hours after moises killing, told haitian authorities they had received the order from felix badio. In the united states, farright ohio congressmember jim jordan said thursday he would suspend his bid to become House Speaker, only to reverse course hours later after emerging from a tense, hourslong meeting with the republican conference. I am still running for speaker and plan to go to the floor and get the bows and win the race but i want to talk with a few of my colleagues. I want to talk with the 20 individuals who voted against me so we can move forward and begin to work amy jordans uturn came after republicans failed to agree to a plan that would have empowered speaker pro tem Patrick Mchenry to perform all the functions of House Speaker until january. The house remains at a legislative standstill 16 days after farright Florida Republican matt gaetz led a successful effort to oust speaker kevin mccarthy. Sidney powell, Donald Trumps former lawyer and one of his 18 codefendants in georgia sweeping racketeering case can has pleaded guilty to attending to overturn the 2020 election results. Are you pleading guilty because there are factual basis . I do. Amy powell will be sentenced to six years of probation and fined her 6000. Powell will also pay 2700 in restitution to the state of georgia and write an apology letter to georgia residents. As part of her deal, Sidney Powell has agreed to cooperate with prosecutors and could become a key witness against trump. In 2020, powell famously vowed to release the kraken to help overturn trumps election loss and filed a litany of baseless lawsuits. In california, interim senator Laphonza Butler said thursday she will not run for the u. S. Senate next year. Governor gavin newsom selected butler, thenpresident of emilys list, to fill the seat left open after the passing of Dianne Feinstein last month. The highprofile senate race includes congressmembers barbara lee, adam schiff, and katie porter. In virginia, the hotel hosting saturdays annual banquet for the council on americanislamic relations, or cair, canceled the event after receiving violent threats. Cair said antimuslim and antipalestinian extremists issued death and bomb threats against the crystal gateway marriot hotel. The event is being relocated with additional security. Cair said in a statement we will not allow the threats of antipalestinian racists and antimuslim bigots who seek to dehumanize the Palestinian People and silence american muslims to stop us from pursuing justice for all. And in san diego, a federal judge again ruled a California Law banning assault weapons such as ar15 rifles was unconstitutional. In 2021, the same judge, roger benitez, overturned californias 32yearold ban on assault weapons. Californias democratic attorney general rob bonta vowed to appeal the dangerous and misguided ruling. Bonta added, weapons of war have no place on californias streets. And those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. When we come back, we speak with palestinian analyst tareq baconi. His piece for the new york review of books, gaza without pretenses for years israel and hamas maintained an unstable equilibrium that kept the gaza strip contained. Back in 20 seconds. [music break] amy a 15yearold palestinian rapper. This is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. The death toll in gaza from israels 14day bombardment has topped 4100 as israel continues to block food, water, and fuel from entering the besieged territory. Over 13,000 palestinians have been injured over the past two weeks. U. N. Secretary general Antonio Guterres traveled today to the egyptian side of the rafah Border Crossing to gaza to demand aid convoys be allowed entry. These trucks are not just trucks. They are a lifeline. They the difference between life and death for so many people in gaza. Amy he said the u. N. Is actively engaging with israel and egypt to get the aid trucks into gaza. The bbc is reporting hamas has offered to release some of the hostages it seized during its attack on october 7 in exchange for a ceasefire but israel has rejected the deal. Israels defense minister hinted thursday that a Ground Invasion is imminent, telling troops they will soon see gaza from inside. Israel is ramping up its crackdown on the occupied west bank. Israeli forces killed palestinians in a raid on the 13 nur shams refugee camp near the city tulkarm. Israel has also detained 750 palestinians, including lawmakers and journalists. On thursday night, President Biden gave a prime time speech from the oval office calling for congress to approve 14 billion for israel and another 60 billion for ukraine. And some for taiwan. This comes as huffpost is reporting there is a mutiny brewing inside the state department over bidens policy on israel. Joining us now in new york is tareq baconi. He is a palestinian analyst and writer, president of the board of alshabaka the palestinian policy network, and former Senior Analyst for the International Crisis group on israel palestine. His recent piece for the new york review is headlined gaza without pretenses for years israel and hamas maintained an unstable equilibrium that kept the gaza strip contained. But it was always likely to be temporary. Tareq is author of the book hamas contained the rise pacification of Palestinian Resistance. Welcome back to democracy now before we go to the history of hamas, i want to ask about the latest that we hear, looks like a Ground Invasion is imminent. The rafah border is still closed although there had been a deal to allow in 20 trucks of aid coming from egypt into gaza, though those inside, medical groups are saying even 100 trucks a day would not quite deal with the crisis and the need inside. An, as the situation in the gaza strip is quite dire, what we see today is a continuation of efforts by israel to place the gaza strip under a complete blockade. This has been ongoing for about 16 years. After the offensive by hamas, october 7, they place the gaza strip under what they say is a total siege, preventing the entry of water, fuel, electricity, and medicine into the gaza strip. This is a form of collective punishment. The gaza strip has about 2. 3 million palestinians, about two thirds of them are refugees from homes homs. About half of that are miners and children. This is a form of collective punishment. Relied on a total dehumanization of palestine and gaza. Humanitarian aid is being politicized. It is linked to political goals. Any form of effort to try to deescalate is being blocked by the u. S. The fact the u. S. Block the u. N. Security council yesterday iss to allow israel to continue both its bombardment of the gaza strip as well as continuation of gazan civilian population to the blocking of entry of humanitarian aid. Amy explain what that resolution was the u. S. Rejected. It was a resolution that was tabled by brazil and he called for an immediate deescalation and ceasefire. It was a humanitarian ceasefire, which meant the bombardment from the israeli authorities would have to cease to allow for humanitarian aid to come into the gaza strip and the restrictions to be eased. However, we see this continues first of all, the u. S. Block the resolution. Then when there were agreements to have 20 truckloads to enter the gaza strip, which is far less than the minimum that would be required for the civilian population, there are still obstacles. We also have to understand the gazan population has been forced by israeli authorities to evacuate the majority of the northern part of the strip. This has resulted in a forced displacement of about the orders was for the displacement of 1. 1 million palestinians. The gaza strip is one of the most densely populated strips of land in the world. Any form of evacuation is really impossible. Theres nowhere for palestinians to leave. What that means is any kind of bombardment the israeli authorities are carrying out in the gaza strip are killing palestinians. Unlike in previous will a terry assaults, israel is quite explicit about targeting civilian answer infrastructure, health care centers, clinics, and bombing is indiscriminate as palestinians are reporting. Amy this is Benjamin Netanyahu speaking tuesday about hamas. This is part of an axis of evil. Ofiran and hezbollah and hamas. Their goal, is to eradicate the state of israel. The open goal of hamas is to kill as many jews as they could and they would have killed every last one of us, murdered every last one of us, if they could, they just dont have the capacity. They murdered an extraordinary 1300 civilians, which in american terms is like many, many, many 9 11s. Amy that is Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu. Tareq baconi, can you respond . Well, this language the israelis and american officials have been using to demonize hamas has been entirely based in the effort to depoliticize the palestinian struggle and prevent any form to armed resistance against the of violent Apartheid Regime as a form of terrorism. The impact of this is to try to give israel a Carte Blanche to continue dealing with the question of palestine President Biden linking october 7 to 9 11 is really Carte Blanche for israel to do what it wants to in the gaza strip. And all the lessons that have been learned after americas own 9 11 have really been lost. This language is not new. The Israeli Governments have linked Palestinian Resistance generally and hamas specifically to 9 11 and terrorism and has used that link in order to reinforce and reinvent its occupation. What we have to understand is this isnt an effort to try to quell, to destroy hamas specifically. This is to pursue an Ethnic Cleansing Campaign in the gaza strip and beyond the gaza strip as we see the violence rising in the west bank. The effort to link hamass attack to 9 11 is to give cover to pursue genocidal tendencies that the israeli political establishment has articulated long before october 7. Amy the Israeli Military, biden very much bonded, sort of bound to this analysis as well, talks about the hamas attack october 7, killing over 1300 israelis, over 200 being held by hamas. Looks like the majority of them according to the Israeli Government are still alive. The Israeli Government says hamas used the civilians as human shields. And in this comment of the Israeli Military saying they have given a green light to move into gaza whenever it is ready, the economy minister said in an interview with abc news, concerns over hostages and civilian casualties will be secondary to destroying hamas. Resurprised by the october 7 attack . Were you surprised by the october attack . Talk about what is really saying right now and what is happening in gaza. October 7 attack was certainly surprising for someone like myself who has been studying hamas for a long time, but i also think for many posted is in the gaza strip as well as probably for hamass leadership. It was not surprising that timing and the offensive nature and how it took place, but surprising mostly in the scale of it. In the ability of hamas to penetrate into israeli controlled territory around the gaza strip and the amount of time the fighters were able to spend. You have to understand for many palestinians and more broadly there is the myth of an israeli instability that israel is impenetrable at least from the gaza strip and that its army is that expectation was probably in the minds of hamass leadership when they are and staging this attack. Any form of effective dissent on the easterly side, what was i was a complete chattering of the illusion. We saw the reality that israels army was not impenetrable and that blockade that is based around the gaza strip is penetrable. And hamas was able to overturn israels myth of instability very quickly. The scale of the attack and the number of hostages that hamas was able to capture and take back into the gaza strip probably exceeded its expectation, which also meant retaliation we now see is also probably far worse than hamas might have anticipated. That is not to say hamas did not anticipate some form of retaliation, because that has always been, at least in the past 16 years, hamas would try to pressure israel through rockets or otherwise to lift or ease restrictions on the blockade because the blockade is up is a form of violence. Israel would respond with disproportionate military force, force that would result in the death of thousands of palestinians in the gaza strip. The expectation has always been from the israeli side the situation is tenable, that it can be sustained, and adopted what it has called the ministry doctrine. This equilibrium what we saw october 7 was hamas overturning that equilibrium and saying you cannot have any kind of calm or security for your citizens as long as your boot remains on our net. That equilibrium has now shattered. Amy i want to ask you if you could talk about israels involvement in mass gaining power. Hamas getting power. In 2009, former Israeli Religious Affairs official who work in gaza for over 20 years told the wall street journal, hamas to my great regret is israels creation. Another official said he was given a budget to help finance is lummis movements in gaza to counter the surf at in his fatah movement. Another former israeli the terry said, when i look back at the chain of events, i think we made a mistake. But at the time, nobody thought about the possible results. Your response, tareq baconi . The origins of that is really hamas emerged as an option of the Muslim Brotherhood chapter in the gaza strip. The Muslim Brotherhood chapter was a social party and its operations in the gaza strip were granted licenses by Israeli Occupying forces at the time. So there was a license for the Muslim Brotherhood chapter in the gaza strip. When hamas was established in 1987 and became a political and military party that was engaged in active resistance against israels occupation, the policies in the Israeli Government shifted. It became less open to allowing hamas to function. However, that did not deter israeli authorities from encouraging and promoting the tactics between Islamist National movement, hamas, and secular. This has always been a tactic the colonial forces have used and israeli colonialism is no different. It has directly and implicitly attempted this came to a head in 2007 when hamas after winning democratic elections rose to power and the israeli authorities come along with the u. S. , attempted to initiate the regime change operation which facilitated a civil war between hamas and allowed a mess to take over the gaza strip. Since then, israeli authorities have actively embraced the idea hamas would be accepted as a governing authority in the gaza strip. Part of the because of gazas 2 million palestinians. This is a demographic issue. Israel was to sever the gaza strip from the rest of palestine in order to reinforce its claim that it is a jewish majority state. I getting rid of 2 million palestinians, two thirds of whom are refugees, israel can claim to be both a jewish state and democracy and restructure what its Apartheid Regime. Now in order to do that, it acquiesced to maintaining hamas in governance and claims it placed a blockade around the gaza strip because hamas was in power. They used the idea that hamas is a terrorist organization, axis of evil, and this blockade make sense. What policies dont understand is that israel has engaged in blockades around the gaza strip and attempted to get rid of the population in the gaza strip long before hamas was established as a party. But with hamass takeover, this creates the perfect figley to maintain it as a seconds separate strip of land and had to acquiesce in sideways even enable hamas to maintain its position as a governing authority. This also further reinforces efforts to try to maintain division among the palestinian leadership and play divide and rule policies. Amy what would you like to see happen right now . It looks like israel is on the verge of a Ground Invasion of gaza. What do you think needs to happen . The most immediate need right now is for a deescalation. World leaders, specifically the u. S. And the biden administration, need to understand this is not a retaliation by israel toward hamas. What were seeing is the effort by israel to pursue an Ethnic Cleansing Campaign and to continue the nakba which began in 1948 and has been ongoing in fits and starts here and there. What were seeing is a massive rupture in the daily ethnic cleansing that the israeli authorities are implementing against the palestinians in the west bank and in jerusalem as well as the gaza strip. And now we are seeing that rupture take the Ethnic Cleansing Campaign from a continual basis into a significantly more focused attempt at getting rid of millions of palestinians. We need to deescalate and we need to ensure humanitarian aid comes into the gaza strip because this is impacting gaza civilian population. This is a starting step. The next step needs to be an lodgment israel is in a parttime regime that is maintaining a system of domination against millions of palestinians. It is the only sovereign power in palestine and it allows rights only to Israeli Jewish citizens, not palestinians. What happened october 7 is a testament to the fact that reality cannot go on and that overturns that assumption the u. S. Administration, as well as regional powers come have always had which is that israel can continue to act with impunity without any consequence to its citizens. I believe we cannot go back to that. Amy tareq baconi, thank you very much for being with us, palestinian analyst and writer, president of the board of alshabaka the palestinian policy network, author of the book hamas contained the rise pacification of Palestinian Resistance. We will link to your piece in the new york review, gaza without pretenses for years israel and hamas maintained an unstable equilibrium that kept the gaza strip contained. But it was always likely to be temporary. When we come back, we continue our conversation of the legendary israeli journalists amira hass has reported from the occupied territories for over three decades. Back in 20 seconds. [music break] amy this is democracy now , democracynow. Org, the war and peace report. Im amy goodman. We spend the rest of the hour with legendary israeli journalist amira hass. She is the haaretz correspondent for the occupied palestinian territories. She is usually based in ramallah. Her latest piece is with no water or electricity from israel, gazans risk dehydration and disease. Today we bring you part two of our conversation. Nermeen shaikh and i spoke to her after she attended wednesdays historic protest in washington, d. C. , led by American Jewish roots calling for an immediate ceasefire. We asked her to describe the scene. It was an expression of common grief and shock of people for juice is made sue slogans were not in our name and cease fire immediately. For me it was important to be there so i was there as a person come as an individual, as a je,s not a journalist. There were quite a few israelis that i know that started the days in the states. We all need support cash which, by the way, palestinians are not allowed. Jews are allowed to hold demonstrations. All over, there are places where palestinians are not allowed to hold demonstrations and solidarity. We privilege the jews that we can do things that palestinians are not allowed to do. I know in the states, there were demonstrations of palestinians. But palestinians are being silenced. There since of grief is not being respected. They are called supporters of tear, whatever. I could tell even the word palestinian is not allowed to be used in all kinds of official statements. I can very much identify with the feeling of being ostracized by the whole world as a you a jew. Im not being listened to, this indifference. Palestinians plight, palestinians ordeal is so shocking. As a jew and a child of survivors and grandchild of jews who were murdered by nazi germany, i can my sense of identification and anger and despair, i must say, despair grow larger by the day, by the minute. Nermeen you wrote in one of your recent pieces from the position of someone who is the daughter, child of Holocaust Survivors and appease headlined germany, have long since trade your responsibility and you write about your father who will tell you as far back as 1992 he himself holocaust survivor, when you return from gaza he would say, true, this is not a genocide what we went through but for us it ended after five or six years. For the palestinians, the suffering has gone on and on for decades. If you could say a little bit more about your fathers position and the fact this isnt also in this is understandably the position of most people who are survivors, children of survivors of the holocaust. If you could explain a little . Look, in 92 years, we could say it is not genocide. I want as i explained over and over again, not to talk now, not to dwell into the summations but to describe the situation, of course in 1992 in comparison to today, it was like a benign occupation compared to what is going on now. Look, i know i come it has been clear if there is a lesson to the nazi german industry of murder, which i think is more accurate to say than the holocaust, if there is a lesson should not be the fate of any people in the world, not just jews. Another lesson that my father taught me, he warned about wars. He warned about during wars things always get worse and worse and without control. And that is exactly why the israeli right and settler rightwing has been always pushing for wars and regional wars because in order to achieve the grand plan of repeating and completing the 1948 nakba i mean, again i say these things and i dont believe we are in this stage and we are and we are in the world is silent or idle. It was idle during in 70 faces in Human History it was idle. I want to Say Something else. The beginning 2000 the second intifada, i was contacted by the great historian howard zinn who very much in the vein of my fathers warning about wars, he thinks of an initiative of people to Start Talking about war just to outlie all wars. War is a crime. That is why dont use the word war crime because war is a crime. Wars unleash such barbarism out of human beings. All human beings. Our ability to return to decent normalcy is so limited. This is the background. This is my background, my parents background. They tried and i tried both as an activist and a journalist to appeal to people and to the community of people and rationality of people. Because this will harm what is happening today, the palestinians are the targets for sure. But eventually, this will harm anybody in the region. It will harm israeli jews as it does palestinians in israel. I am still talking and still hoping it will stop. Immediately. Amy you came on democracy now in february. At that time, you wrote to us afterwards saying the danger of mass expulsion of palestinians is nearer than ever before since the nakba. One cannot repeated uptimes this message in order for it to remain a warning and not a prophecy. Can you expand exactly what you mean . Of course, it is now october. At this point, Something Like 3800 palestinians are dead but the hundreds of thousands that have been displaced and then the israeli army telling the palestinian population in gaza that half of them must leave the northern part, the most populated part of the most densely populated place on earth , and move south. Look, i must say at that time when i wrote in february, thought more about the west bank. But we see theyre working on these two fronts. It is the Palestinian People. Both are the israeli occupation, even though the west bank, the gaza strip is in a different constellation. But just as dr. Was tougher barghouti said, they what egypt to open and to allow palestinians go because otherwise, people would say, oh, it is also the fault of egypt. Why dont they let all of the people flee to egypt . There are calls on israel to let palestinians build a new town and things like that. But in the west bank of the danger of mass expulsion. Again, i repeat what dr. Mustafa said. That is why the King Abdullah so alarmed because he says if palestinians are being pushed, pushed, pushed, they will be pushed toward jordan. There is a longer standing israeli claim that the real palestine is jordan because the majority people in jordan are palestinian. So the danger now exists again, i repeat, the right wing once wars in order to exactly accomplish these plans that are kind of subdued during normal times. And hour normalcy is never normal. Nermeen i want toquote from another piece you wrote just days after the hamas assault in israel, you wrote, as in every israeli war against the gaza war that hamas has an interest in, especially given the murder of civilians, one should ask him adjust this organization have a realistic political goal or did it mainly what to rehabilitate its own position in the eyes of gaza residents . If you could respond to some of those rhetorical questions that you asked. What is going on with the hostages . Now that israel have said they have increased the number who are being held in gaza, what is their position and what do we know what the israeli state is doing to negotiate or force their release . Presumably, they are being affected by this constant bombardment. Exactly. I have no idea how many of the hostages some of them i know the relatives. I know one of them was 85 years old, very bright journalist. He was in the 1970s, the expulsion of bedouins in the north of sinai was exposed in a series of articles. I know some people that are relatives of friends of mine. We dont know what is happening. If there in the same conditions like every palestinian in gaza. If they are alive, they are without water and electricity. If they are wounded, theres no way to really treat them. If there separated, they are held some are held by Islamic Jihad and some by hamas. Where did they hold them . Did they flee from the north to the south . We dont have answers to the questions. I dont know how many answers the israeli army has. While we are talking, israelis are also arresting and have been arresting more palestinian workers from gaza who were in israel just whenever things started. At first they were allowed to go into palestinian cities in the west bank, but now they are arresting them. I allow myself to suspect they also want to play these cards when they are negotiating about the release of israeli prisoners , people who were abducted. Look, hamas proved to be very resourceful when it comes to the military operation. They knew how to neutralize israeli surveillance facilities, how to neutralize the military bases, etc. They were very resourceful. It would be impressive if it were not for the atrocities committed later and the atrocities were committed. I know it is not the time to tell palestinians to Pay Attention to this because israels revenge is 100 times more bloodier, but still there were atrocities. I feel there is a tremendous contradiction between the planning of the immediate military operation and what comes aftermath. What is the aftermath. Because for example, the civilian space in gaza if they knew they had such an operation and they knew israel would retaliate ferociously, then why, for example, did they not i dont know, take care of the people have water . Arrange to have 70 weapons, they must have always arrange to have so many weapons, they must have arranged for the civilian population. From what i can tell, i dont see this has happened. I dont think hamas can be erased. It can flourish outside of gaza. But i dont understand its political plane right now. Do they want to liberate all of palestine so it doesnt matter if it would take 50 years, 80 years at the cost of lives of palestinians and israelis that i dont know who would return to the country . Who will live in this destroyed country if this is the plan . If the plan is political, is it worse to ask for the release of palestinian prisoners in israeli prisons at the cost is so much . I think i know some prisoners in jail now. I dont think they would be happy to be released thanks to the death of thousands or tens of thousands of palestinians. So right now, i see militarily and very apt organization that indeed gave israel a very distinctive below blow, but i dont see there is a political, viable position that comes with it. That is me now. I dont know. We are waiting. Because just war, just bloodshed where will it lead to . Now it is very difficult for people to criticize hamas. There is a lot of support. But is it a political does it have a political, logical, human perspective . I dont see it. Amy and the response to the repeated assertions on television i want to ask you also because it is how americans understand what is happening is through the corporate media. The younger population is watch television. The older population does. If you watch cnn starting yesterday, for example, but this was a repetition before, one Israeli Defense force representative after another. You even have naftali bennett, former Prime Minister, who is now one of the army, saying, are you seriously asking me about Palestinian Civilians . But starting yesterday after the bombing of the hospital, however that turns out, whoever is responsible for that, throughout the day through today, the lower third of cnn was u. S. Sources, u. S. Officials say israel is not responsible. That goes larger than the hospital. Throughout the day, the discussion that it seems netanyahu was quite victorious in this, whether it is a lie or true, a bigger point israel is not responsible. I wanted to ask about that. This is at a time when over 3500 palestinians have been killed, dozens of other Health Facilities actually including that one attacked just a few days before, that i did they did not say they did not do, what this kind of coverage means. Chomsky says the media is manufacturing consent for war in general, but it matters because the u. S. Is the most powerful country on earth and the main weapons supplier to israel. Look, what does it mean israel is not responsible . Israel has engineered this since the early 1990s when the world pushed israel and the palestinians and the palestinians wanted this to have a kind of compromise. This is following the palestinian first intifada. This is a very clear political message. We want we dont want our children come, i heard someone say this, we dont want our children to live the way we lived under occupation so lets compromise and have a palestinian state alongside israel. This was accepted way out from the bloodshed in the crisis and the conflict. And israel did Everything Possible to foil the possibility of establishing a palestinian state alongside israel. So it only increased and enhanced its colonialist drive since the beginning of israel disconnected gaza, put treated as a separate enclave with no connections to the people of the west bank and the rest of palestine and israel. Not when hamas came to power, but long before, in the early 1990s. What is the responsibility . It is israeli policy that has created such a chain of reactions that we could say, we set it over and over again to israel, to four diplomats, foreign countries, we warned over and over again, and we wanted to prevent it from happening so how can you say israel is not responsible . Every palestinian who was killed today in gaza is registered in the israelicontrolled population registry. Palestinians are not registered and a separate one. It is israel which control. If a person is not registered, if a newborn is not registered in the israeli registry of population, then the newborn does not exist. Israel controls today the Palestinian Authority is obliged to give every name of a newborn and every change of address to israel for validation of this change. So how is it not responsible, it is part of israel. Israel controls the people. Decides how much water they have. What economy they are allowed to have. If they dont go to universities in the west bank, israel decides. Israel decides about everything of these people. What is happening now is not israels responsibility . This is exactly how the majority of Mainstream Media dont want to deal with it. They start to deal with conflict only when it reaches this unbearable top. But there is incremental cruelty and violence and evil and bureaucratic evil and violence that has been there for years accumulating one layer after another. It chokes everybody, every palestinian. Palestinians in gaza people who are under 30 years old have never seen a mountain in their lives. A mountain. They dont understand the concept of a spring of water coming out of a rock over a mountain. I know it because a young friend of mine, she had the chance to come to the west bank because she has cancer. So her friends tell her, youre so lucky because you have cancer so you can leave the gaza strip. Brothers are surprised when they tell which he tells them about the mountains she sought the west bank. You take from the people for so many years, you take every hope and every horizon, every joy you take out of them and still want to say again, i want to say the more i hear about this saturday and i think many details i verified many details and the atrocities were there. But told me that people came not the majority, a few, tells me how the pressure that has built up, how monstrous it was to create this monstrous attacks in one day. Amy amira hass, longtime haaretz correspondent for the occupied palestinian territories, usually based in ramallah. To see part one of our interview, visit democracynow. Org. I am speaking tonight in charleston, West Virginia 7 30 p. M. At the capitol theater. Visit democracynow. Org for details. Happy birthday, robby karran [captioning made possible by democracy now ]