Hello and welcome to the program, the detention of dozens of people working in the media in india has been condemned by journalists organizations, as well as press freedom and civil rights groups. The government says the raids were covered out carried out to protect National Security claiming media organizations are using chinese funding to undermine the state. The government opponents say the Police Action is a sign of further erosion of press freedom in a country often praised for being the Worlds Largest democracy. So, what is happening to indias media . And just how free is journalism they are . We will be discussing all of that and more with our guests shortly but first this report. Media office raids and journalists questioned, scenes becoming common in india. On tuesday it was the turn of a news portal critical of the government, police searched the office of news click in the homes of several writers. Dozens of them were detained, interrogated and released. Their laptops and mobile phones seized, news clicks editor and Senior Executive have been arrested and held. We have not been given any reason nor the grounds nor the offense committed for which the journalists have been brought here, no information have been given to family members or us. The government defends its move saying the raids are part of an investigation into suspected illegal foreign funding of the media company. Police registered a case against news click in august after the New York Times reported the website received funds from a u. S. Millionaire. The report accused the millionaire of working closely with beijing to push chinese propaganda worldwide, a charge the mobile denies. If some agency was on chinas debt agenda after taking money, such things cannot be allowed in the country. An investigation was going on against them and now we have concrete evidence that money is coming from china and america and that money is being used to promote china here. The opposition accuses authorities of cracking down on voices critical of the government and the Prime Minister modi. The media has failed to handle it, what is it what is the issue . The crackdown comes months after indian tax authorities raided the offices of the bbc in new delhi and mumbai. The channel aired a documentary critical of modis role in the riots in 2002. More than 1000 people were killed and injured in the unrest between communities in that state. Prime minister modi was then chief minister. Other independent outlets have also been targeted, most of the searches are carried out under socalled antiterror powers that critics say are draconian and a misuse of the law. The police are not listening to us, no application is being accepted. Our clients are not being allowed to sign their legal authorization letters. This is an act of terror, this is an effort to silence people who question the government in any form. The degree of press freedom in india has plunged since modi took charge as Prime Minister in 2014. In this years World Press Freedom index of 180 countries india has dropped to 161 from 150 last year. Its lowest ranking on record. Reporters without borders that conducts the annual ranking warrants press freedom is in crisis in india. Lets bring in our guests now. In mumbai, global opinions writer for the Washington Post and author, anatomy of a coverup. And in new delhi Political Editor of the news in india and in frankfurt, Asia Program Coordinator for the committee to protect journalists. A warm welcome to you all, thank you for joining us on the program. A simple question, is press freedom in crisis in the Worlds Largest democracy . I need to begin with your introduction you spoke about the World Press Freedom index rating, that india is now the one 61st position and that speaks volumes. The fact that at this point in time they are identifying new enemies of the state, unlawful activities in the act has been used against journalists shows how free journalists are in this part of the world. The Worlds Largest democracy. The thing is, what happened to news click yesterday it has become a norm at this point in time. Every time a publication, especially independent publication, someone is critical of the government. Publishes something which goes against the stated line of the government, we see this kind of reprisals against the journalist. Whether it is income tax notice, Money Laundering, it used to just be defamation but now we have laws against journalists. So we are not as free as we would like to be and in fact this is probably one of the worst times to be a journalist, an independent journalist critical of the Modi Government in india right now. I want to pick up on what you said in terms of the that were arrested or detained. These journalists were arrested under what is known as the unlawful activities prevention act. What is that and why is it so dangerous for press freedom . The unlawful act is actually an antiterror law and the justification is extremely draconian. The features is that it is nearly impossible under the law, you are basically jailed without trial. The court is actually forced to accept the version of the prosecution while it is jailed and accused. It has been widely used and widely employed by the Modi Government to silence critics. Civilized activists and yesterday we saw used against two extremely experienced journalist. One you picked up today was also in a very dark ironic moment, also picked up. And he has been picked up today under an antiterror law. It is such a draconian law, it allows to imprison people for years on end without trial and this is why it is such a favorite for the government to use. It can be used against anyone who is reporting or any activist who is organizing and mobilizing against the government. This is not anything new, the Indian Government has been cracking down on journalists critical of Prime Minister modi. What has your organization been documenting . Indeed, this is not the first time as we heard just now. Earlier this year we have seen similar raids. The office of news click in the homes of some of the journalists were also rated two years ago. So since modi came into power in 2014, we have documented a growing number of cases of journalists being harassed because of their critical reporting of the government and the modi party. But what is most concerning to us, from yesterdays actions with news click, the use the news of the arrest of a news click editor and one of the staff. This is the latest example of the weaponizations of security law against journalists for their work. You are a journalist working in india. From a personal perspective can you describe to us what it is like to be a journalist daytoday in your country . I can still say i am in a very privileged position to the extent i have access to a great set of lawyers. I have access to International Platforms that show solidarity with me. But it is a difficult job at this point in time because i spend more time with my lawyers, and i could spend not doing my reports. Having said that i think it is very important to point out there are journalists in the country who are still behind bars under uap especially journalist in cash need. Five of them are still behind bars under the state antiterror laws, also the National Security act and Public Safety acts. And some have been behind bars for more than two years. Journalists for more than two years was behind bars because he was on his way to report the gang rape of a lower caste girl. That is the state of affairs of journalism in india. And what i am really concerned about as somebody who has been in this profession for more than 15 years now, is the Chilling Effect this will have on a young generation of journalists. Independent journalist, specifically who want to join the profession who are already in the profession. When they see this kind of vindictive attitude of the government to critical work, that will dissuade them. That will dissuade them from doing journalism because nobody wants cops at their doorstep first thing in the morning. Nobody wants an enforcement dictate, Money Laundering charges against you or members of your family. It is not a Pleasant Site to have cops at your doorstep. So i think it has had a Chilling Effects, it will have a Chilling Effect on an entire generation of journalists. And for democracy, and liberal ideas and values. The questions being asked, what i heard from media reports from news click journalists is about the coverage of the various protests in india. Farmers protest. Basically the government is trying to establish a link that anybody who is dissenting or is critical of the government is a propagandist up against international forces, whether it is chinese funding or soros. This is the new backdrop where it is happening. I wanted to jump in there and pick up on what you just said. Do you think part of the issue is that any critique of the government is seen as antinational or unpatriotic . Is that part of the issue . It certainly is part of the issue. The media is a big part of politics in india, the Modi Government has made it one of its main priorities to control the media. Part of it is using the carrot so it allows Media Outreach in the modi at Modi Government. But for the others, for news click with more critical reports on the ground in the situation on the ground, as i mentioned there have been a number of protests. So it is small citizen reported invoices on the ground that are disseminated, these views. For them there is a stick and it is a very large stick which is the antiterror law. Which is mangling journalists who have been working for the past decade and still reporting on the ground. As you mentioned there is an abundance of Media Outlets. If i can direct this question to you, is that abundance in india able to conceal the concentration of ownership and what impact does that concentration of ownership have on press freedom . India is one of the Worlds LargestNews Industries and what we are seeing right now apart from the issues of concentrating on media ownership as well, what we are seeing is the criminalization of journalism. It is very alarming to us, especially through tactics like using financial charges to target Media Outlets or individual journalists. This is a growing tactic that we commonly see authorities used but increasingly it is also being used in india. And india is a country where freedom of speech is guaranteed under the constitution so this is not the first time we are seeing that similar tactics being used in india. But it was mentioned about the protests, this is a fact of people in india and people reporting about whats going on and that is really concerning. Staying on the concentration of media ownership for a moment before we brought in it out, the concentration of media ownership in the countries leading languages hindi but would you agree it is even more marked at a regional level . For local language publications. There are two sides to this, there is this big legacy media houses in india. Big names, big publications. Who are dependent on the government and big business houses for ads in revenue. The other thing is they dont want access to the government so some of the biggest media houses and government, whether hindi or english, are now owned by big is this houses and they do not want to take from the government. On the other hand we have independent news outlets other independent outlets in other publications in hindi there is not that kind of funding that these organizations should have. They dont have the kind of reach. The reach of these mainstream legacy Media Outlets of which is basically most of them, are turning out the language that is stated by the government. At this point in time we had a specific example, the independent media houses were being critical of the government and they covered by the donnie group. Similarly with other news channels, hindi news channels in hindi news publications, a big part of the dissemination censorship depends on the ownership. Who owns them and the relationship with those in power. I think that is a big problem and that affects at the end of the day nobody wants a notice on their doorstep and secondly no one wants to lose access to those in power. I noticed you nodding there, do you think journalists who work for a particular medium, say print versus television or radio, do you think one of those mediums and the journalists that work for them are more vulnerable than the others . Yes but it is complex. Tv is the most vulnerable but that is because tv has the biggest reach. That is the most invested because it has the biggest impacts. So if you are a tv journalist there is a lot of pressure on you to conform to a certain political line. To some extent just because tv has a big reach. Coming back to your question around how it plays around national levels, in an ironic way i think the reason is actually somewhat fair than the National Media houses because it was pointed out that the corporate control there is more mixed. But when it comes to the National Media which the Modi Government is very invested in controlling, there is a lot of corporate down control. And especially even in english, it is actually very difficult now to run an independent english or hindi news channel that is critical of the government. Just because of all the carrots and sticks being thrown at you if you do so. Would you agree with that sentiment that it is Television Journalists or you think that all journalists no matter what the communication method are under threat . I think we have seen a number of cases affected, journalists are not just indian journalists but also foreign media as well. Increasingly we are also getting foreign correspondence facing restrictions into travel, facing us uncertainties. But i think overall of course journalists in india and in general are still facing the biggest challenge especially those working for the regional media. Police said that 37 men and nine women have been questioned in these recent raids. I know you have been quite vocal about Online Violence against female journalists. How does gender play a role if any in this issue . I hate to bring myself into this situation but as a woman and a muslim woman critical of the country, they are more bigoted against me. I just posted a picture of somebody from all of these right wing trolls, they pick up your image from the internet and say oh she is a modern woman who advocates for he job in india. Hijbab in india, i think the trolling is a little more horrendous than their counterparts. It has more to do with their sexuality or their agenda gender. To create a narrative about you to discredit your work, there is an online narrative it is one thing for the government to target in the mainstream are media to target and use the government narrative but the other important player in this is the social media narrative that has been used to tarnish the reputation of journalists who are critical of the government. Whether it is news click or the bbc or an independent journalist or foreign journalists, every time a journalist does something critical of the government you see comments by bots. Not everyone has the bankroll to do this or at the mental bandwidth to handle Something Like this. It does shut a lot of people done down. I know women journalists in india who have gone quiet because of the gender harassment against them. Not everybody has the bandwidth to fight the infinite trolls and the entire social media that is against them. There is this bankrupt narrative and when journalists are not battling agencies they are also battling Mainstream Media and social media narratives that has turned out against them. That is a very effective medium. You have whatsapp for instance, they are Fact Checking the news but those sites are a very nice concept. By the time a journalist is discredited that information has gone viral in the country. So that journalist is made an enemy of the state. So whether the persecuting agency can prosecute or produce evidence against the journalist is for a later stage but before that you discredit the journalist and of their work that is critical of the government. That is something this government has done effectively. That brings me to my next question, how can journalist fight back . Journalists can fight back using a report. Yesterday was a tough day for all indian journalists. It left our community shaken. The fact that it is so easy to imprison a Senior Member or senior colleagues. But i think all we can do is put our heads down and report and do our job. And hope that the country will turn out for the better and we can be a small part of that. What do you think the future holds for journalism in india specifically . I think the best way for us the future for journalism is to continue reporting and this is what we do best. I truly believe that facts will win one day and india once had a strong tradition and we must return to this. If we really want to fill expectations, it is up to the Indian Government to decide what it wants to be. Because they can be the mother of democracy or the graveyard of democracy. The United States is called for respect for the media but has declined to weigh in on reports of news clicks relationship with china. Do you want washington to step out . What do you want from the International Community more broadly . What i expect is for the journalism organizations internationally, and not as much governments but journalism organizations to speak in solidarity with journalists. Because if the profession is under attack i dont think governments can intervene, it is journalist organizations and publications that need to speak up. Just like journalist spoken solidarity when khashoggi was murdered. We need that kind of solidarity from journalist globally about what is happening because as it was said, yesterday was a very depressing day for journalists and again i want to say i wonder if they surveyed young journalists in india how do we create a safer space for them . How do we make sure that they do not fear imprisonment . I think if the National Journalism bodies and interNational Media should have the back of their journalists working in india and independent journalists in india who are working at great risk to their livelihood. They dont have legal access. I think journalism bodies should do more to protect these independent journalists who are working at great risk to their lives. How is the indian public reacted . What have you heard anecdotally or when you have gone out on the streets in new delhi, people reacted to these raids and arrests . The reactions one thing i want to put forward is the distortion of media in india has had an impact on the public. And it is a very bad impact, a poor impact. People have lost trust in the media. People right now, they dont trust a lot of what the media is putting out because they realize large parts of the media are acting as mouthpieces for the government. In fact sometimes you even hear it from people that support the media, wellmeaning people so it they would also not believe what progovernment channels are putting up. We might get lost in the political tussle but this is very bad for democracy. You cant have a democracy in which the media is not free. It is a critical element. I hope conditions pull us back from that precipice so that we dont go over. The next indian general election is expected to be held in a few months time, in that six months time between april and may of 2024. Are you expecting a further crackdown by the Indian Government in the coming months . I dont want to sound like a cynic but the way things look now i expect for a crackdown on not just journalists but civil rights activist. The centers. Members of the opposition. I think it is going to be a very tough time ahead of the general elections, six months into the general election has given us a preview on what lies ahead and that is extremely distressing. I think the state of journalism is in strong hands with the three of you. We appreciate your time on this edition of inside story, thank you so much. Thank you to all of our guests, and thank you too for watching. You can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera. Com and for further discussion go to our facebook page. You can also join the conversation on x formerly known as twitter. For me and the whole team here have a good night. Man Ruben Funkahuatl Guevara is. Woman a badass. Can i say that . 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