Destroying the Greek Economy and threatens the countrys democracy. Will they choose austerity . Coming to you from berlin, quadriga the international debate. Melinda hello and welcome. Debt drama. Who is good and who is bad . She is the berlin correspondent for the newspaper. She says so many on all sides in the name of democracy and solidarity. She is one of germanys bestknown economic journalists for many of the leading business publications. She says europe was built on compromise and race could put an end to that era. And we have the german british author and commentator. The ever closer union is dead and germany is to blame. It is time to rethink europe. It opened with the question, will the greek People Choose austerity or Alexis Tsipras . What will happen . Im not sure thats the question. Public opinion is torn at the moment. I wouldnt make any predictions at this moment, but it is definitely a very strong debate going on in greece. My only fear is that the greek people will end up divided. Melinda who is the good guy and who is the bad guy . It depends on who youre talking to. The bad guy is usually the finance minister. Number two would be the Angela Merkel. It is actually what we take upon ourselves. So many years of Bad Administration and bad governing. It has to do with the people as well. We the people have a huge responsibility of what going on today. And we have demands. There are promises that we have two, at some point, start to figure out what it means to people. In between the east and the west, we have to decide this for ourselves. Maybe this is now the time to decide. Melinda and you would agree the bad guys are sitting right here in berlin . Yes. We have imposed austerity at the economy which is already a basket case. Everyone knows if you impose austerity into a recession youre going to make things worse. It was little more than a man with a mustache. The force this kind of austerity onto a small country, they were able to do it. They would know that the result of the economic chaos and they did that. It is that with eyes wide open and sleepwalking. I know the greeks have to do their homework. But this was exacerbated and made worse by europe. Melinda they said europe was built on compromise and chancellor Angela Merkel made a great case speaking to her own party. She and the other members of the Creditor Group is in a greece of an ultimatum. Who did this ultimatum whether the eu or was it greece blackmailing the eu. And the common feeling of ministers of the european commission, at the end, if a greece was blackmailing them and they are not ready to accept that. Melinda the german finance minister that you mentioned expressed his own disappointment being that the last vestige of trust had been destroyed. The feeling is that greek simply walked away from the negotiating table at exactly the moment where it mightve been possible to reach a deal. We dont know the truth about that. Not sure what really happened. Or of the greek government reported otherwise. They were presented with an ultimatum and they just couldnt take it and they had to go back and address the people. The truth, for me, i am astonished by the lack of leadership not only today, but since beginning of this crisis. It is a lack of leadership and the lack of comments and. The lack of handson handling of problems. Like you said, greece is a very small country. Nobody knew what was really going on in greece until 2009. Is that true . There were structural issues in greece for decades and we were covering it up with money. This was bound to vote at some point. Greeks didnt know it. We are also responsible. And what they did in the beginning of the crisis, more of these measures and so on. But the real problem is institutions. We lack institutions. Health systems, education systems. You cant cut my salary and destroy the social safety net. When i have money, i can send my kids to private school. But when i dont have money this is the time of these that social safety net. Melinda lets say the eu made very big mistakes that you also said in your opening remarks. A demand of the bailout on its own terms . Or is that the way the greek government sees it . I have little sympathy for a radical leftwing government paired with radical right wing party and they have behaved like schoolchildren. They are totally inexperienced. They dont have the right to demand anything. And we go to the bank and when we go the bank money, they start changing things. If you lend someone money who you know is not going to be able to pay it back, you keep on imposing conditions that you know are not going to produce any type of growth you also have to take a hit. And this is something they just dont want to admit. Someone lends money to someone who isnt credit worthy is just possible for what happens. And if it means losing money, it means losing money. There were few countries in europe that had to do these austerity measures. Most of them are off now. Take ireland for instance. Spain maybe. They made a turnaround and everything seems to be in the right direction. Im going to go for ireland first. Had a Banking System which collapsed in the government had developed the bank, which is why they struggled. The banks are earning money paying tax. Im not quite sure what the situation is. I will be wary of going in there saying everythings ok. But they are investing in portugal. Melinda many people would say that it is exactly what she told us a few moments ago, and there are people all over europe asking if the people in athens really know what they are doing that the policies reflect the next. s and ineptitude as much as ideology. He writes his motorcycle to work. The greek finance known for disregarding the rules of etiquette. Prime minister Alexis Tsipras are viewed by some politicians as reckless. Event called egotistical and unprofessional. Some say that they are endangering the entire eu. But is that fair . Greek government does have is supporters. Paul krugman says they are an active and monstrous buys. He has long called for an end to austerity policy. The greek gravel so certainly stirred up the political mainstream. I did bring some fresh went to brussels . Paul krugman is not a bad ally to have. Yes. We have strong supporters and am not sure if they support this particular government or it seems like they are criticizing europe more. At these the greek example in the greek government is now speaking this is the only voice to be heard at the moment. Strongest voice to be heard at the moment. They rally behind it, i think. Europe has to decide whether it needs more integration, if it needs to stand still and take a breath and decide what to do next or take the reforms deeper. I dont see us growing in any case. Have they changed or achieved anything . I was interested in them this weeks aim we cant put attacks a new tax on the rich because they are not in a position to collect it very efficiently. It has been six months. No one in europe would object to the greek government trying to build a new Tax Administration system. You dont need a memorandum to do that. It you dont need an agreement to do that. And you dont need an agreement to tax the rich in greece. Ballast everywhere in the western world, they have their ways of getting out. Its not only the rich. Nobodys paying tax is. One thing that german people dont actually know is that one day, they say to keep their money into this its not true. Their money has been safe. Its been our money going down and down and down. Everyone is in a position to change it and collected. But we have to pay high taxes. It doesnt make any difference if you increase taxes are not. You can collect them. The tax income becomes even lower. Is this really about a political question . Or is it about power and determination to stay in power come what may . Alexis tsipras negotiated away almost every inc. He had in elected to do. He went to increasing the ac and thats what he promised them to do. He was in trouble with his own party and probably with his own electorate. It seems to me that the only thing he could do, unless he wants to increase the sort of despair, they do what they want. The member of the same old guard. Its about power. Getting a mandate for europe. Melinda is there any sense to the referendum or that the bailout package has been a dead letter isnt the question a moot question . It is not only the offer of the eu but to us, the greek government, they dont know what to decide on. And on the other hand, it should be something that leads to direction. If they make the offer that doesnt it this, they have to step back and the government would have to sit down because they would be able to deliver. And on the other hand, if they get there now, greece was exit the euro promptly. Out think so. They will have to renegotiate. But you have to get the yes or no of the greek people youve got to get it in germany finland, and the baltic states. Melinda lets say briefly with the question of that yes vote and if government would then be likely to have elections, what do you think . He said he could not see himself signing an agreement without a debt writeoff. He hinted that he would probably resign. A lot of people would ask the government to resign. Or pursue the government to resign if there is allowed yes. On the other hand, this would probably make the greek government a not sure it would make them stronger. The message all over europe would be we dont like it. And we dont trust you. Melinda and do you think that it does lead in the direction of that fix . He said that the greek people should vote no as a step on the road to leaving the eu . Is that really a feasible alternative that a lot of greeks would want to the . I dont think so. Greeks are not willing to take anything just to stay within the eurozone. This is their way of life now. The Uncharted Waters are at the moment. And it is attractive. It is for sure. It would create a World Climate and the atmosphere would deteriorate. In the end, there will be a no alternative. Nobody trusts the greek government. It is one of the biggest friends of the greek government. And the head of the eu commission,[talking over each other] they dont do it. Melinda there is no orderly process for any state to leave the eurozone. De facto, if we look at the situation on the ground, it is already looking pretty, pretty tight. The banks are running out of money and its quite possible the greek government may soon have to begin paying pensions and other things. With ious. Does that amount to a parallel currency . For the banks, if they had to cut our savings. And people still have money in the banks. Although they took a lot of it in recent years. The atmosphere is so tense. The referendum is an ultimatum itself. Government says it is just an agreement. You just give us more strength to represent you and gain more on your behalf. If you mention martin scholz, to my knowledge these people should not speak anymore. We are likely to see more troubling images like these. Melinda are these the kind of images we need to get used to . Can we afford to let greece also afford to do so geopolitically . We cant. Which is why its not going to happen. That is part of the problem. We dont have enough growth. A very low standards, that is why we have poor people all over the place. We are obviously not progressing towards this. Melinda lets say greece did reapply for support like will just saw. Would they actually get it from the German Parliament at this point . It sounded like chancellor merkels own party. I think there are many people where it is enough. They will get help if they ask for help. But they have to build up their institution. Melinda thank you for being with us today and thank you about there for tuning in. See you soon. 8uxu mosques typically have these tall spires you see on the side of the dome. They originally functioned as eliminated watchtowers. Their primary function now is a podium to call the faithful to prayer five times a day. The interesting things about the blue mosque in