On inside north Koreas Nuclear program hecker here i am. Martin but this american scientist was given a red carpet tour. Hecker we got up to the second floor, and looked down at a hall. Martin and you saw . Hecker i was just flabbergasted. I could not believe what i was seeing. Martin he visited not once, but seven times. U. S. Intelligence now estimates north korea has the ability to arm up to 60 Nuclear Weapons. Kim jongun is ecstatic about that, and doesnt care that his program is not a secret anymore. Hecker their confidence level, you know, is amazing wertheim portland, oregon sits in one of the most Beautiful Spots in america. 90 miles to the east, majestic mt, hood. 90 miles to the west, the pacific coast. For portlands 650,000 residents their scenic locale is paired with a liberal spirit. All cycling and recycling. Brownstein is that u. S. D. A. Organic, or oregon organic, or portland organic . Waitress its just all across the board, organic. Wertheim and an entire tv show, portlandia skewers the citys progressiveness and preciousness. Waitress the chicken you will be enjoying tonight, his name was collin. Here are his papers, okay . Im steve kroft. Im lesley stahl. Im scott pelley. Im lara logan. Im david martin. Im bill whitaker. Those stories tonight, on 60 minutes. I can do more to lower my a1c. Because my body can still make its own insulin. And i take trulicity once a week to activate my body to release it, like its supposed to. Trulicity is not insulin. It comes in a onceweekly, truly easytouse pen. The pen where you dont have to see or handle a needle. And it works 24 7. Trulicity is a onceweekly injectable medicine to improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise. It should not be the first medicine to treat diabetes, or for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. 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Logan the war in afghanistan is the longest in u. S. History. Its lasted over 16 years, and in that time, americas goals and strategies have changed. Now theres another new plan. President trump has sent 3,000 more troops to train and assist the afghan army. But in the afghan capital, you dont have to go far to see the problems. Kabul is so dangerous, american diplomats and soldiers are not allowed to use the roads. They cant just drive two miles from the airport to u. S. Headquarters. They have to fly. After all these years, a trillion dollars, and 2,400 american lives, kabul is under siege. This is rush hour at Kabul International airport a swarm of helicopters thats earned the nickname embassy air. Its how americans and their allies working at the u. S. Embassy and military headquarters travel back and forth from the airport. Its just a fiveminute flight. The chopper we boarded was making its tenth trip of the day. Seat belts on at all times. No smoking everyone good . Logan a few years ago, american convoys regularly drove on the airport road below. Now, the view from the helicopter window is all most on board will see of kabul. Theyll stay behind blast walls for the rest of their time in afghanistan. We wanted to know what it says about where we are in this war, if american troops cant drive two miles down a road in kabul. John nicholson its a country at war. And its a capital that is under attack by a determined enemy. Logan no u. S. General has spent more time here than John Nicholson, the commander of American Forces in afghanistan. Nicholson we do Everything Possible to protect our forces. So logan youre not using the roads. Nicholson protecting the lives of our troops is our numberone priority. If we can fly instead of drive and that offers them a greater degree of safety, then its the prudent and the right thing to do. Logan in military terms, thats called surrendering the terrain. Nicholson i disagree. I think its answering our moral imperative to protect the lives of our soldiers and civilians. So thats what we do. Logan but this isnt some remote outpost. Its the capital. When the u. S. First came here, the population was 500,000. Now its more than five million. Refugees, people desperate for work, and terrorists have flooded kabul. General nicholson showed us how vulnerable the city has become. Nicholson a suicide bomber is going to go in here, hes going to kill himself. He doesnt care about his future. Vastly easier than what the Afghan Security forces have to do. Logan because he doesnt have to have an exit strategy. Nicholson exactly. Logan how easy is it to infiltrate the city, especially one this big . Nicholson yeah, right now its easier than we would like. Logan general nicholson took command in 2016 shortly after the u. S. Cut troop levels to fewer than 10,000. The enemy filled the vacuum. Suicide bombers have terrorized kabul ever since, shattering police stations, mosques, and foreign embassies. This truck bomb in may killed 150 people. It was the deadliest attack in the capital since the start of the war. Ashraf ghani the level of brutality, the level of heartlessness is unbelievable, and we have to muster all of our resources to be able to deal with this. Logan afghan president ashraf ghani rules from the president ial palace thats occupied the city center for more than a century. We noticed the walls around him and the rest of the city have expanded and grown taller since our last visit three years ago. Some of the streets we traveled turned into tight corridors of 20foothigh concrete barriers. It made it hard to tell where we were. Parts of this city now are unrecognizable. What happened here . Ghani the war is changing from a war against armies to a war against people. Logan more civilians are dying in kabul every year. And your response is more walls. Ghani 21 International Terrorist groups are operating in this country. Dozens of suicide bombers are being sent. There are factories producing suicide bombers. We are under siege. Logan by terrorizing the people, the taliban have sown deep doubts about the government. The result angry protestors in the capital chanting death to ashraf ghani. If you cant secure the capital, how are you going to secure the rest of the country . Ghani you tell me. Can you prevent the attack on new york . Can you prevent the attack on london . Logan were not talking about one attack. A series of attacks right here on your doorstep, a bomb that blew out the windows in your palace that has turned this city into something of a concrete prison. Ghani what do you want . Whats your alternative, maam . Logan what is the alternative . Ghani the alternative is resolve. Logan resolve has come at a heavy cost. In just four months last year, more than 4,000 Afghan Soldiers and police were wounded. Another 2,500 killed. Since then, ghani has refused to reveal casualty figures. As you will see, it is a sensitive subject. Your soldiers and your policemen are dying in unprecedented numbers. Ghani indeed. Logan how long can that be sustained . Ghani until we secure afghanistan. Logan how long is that . How long until you secure it . Ghani as long as it takes. Generations if need be logan the u. S. Isnt going to be here for generations. Ghani we will be here for generations. We do not need others to fight our fights. Logan people in this country say that if the u. S. Pulled out, your government would collapse in three days. Ghani from the resource perspective, they are absolutely right. We will not be able to support our army for six months without u. S. Support, and u. S. Capabilities. Logan did you just say that without the u. S. Support, your army couldnt last six months . Ghani yes. Because we dont have the money. Logan american taxpayers bankroll 90 of afghanistans defense budget. Thats more than 4 billion a year. Another 30 billion has been spent rebuilding this country. A bustling city has risen from the ruins. But in all the years we have been coming here, its never been this dangerous. Checkpoints choke the traffic all over kabul. It was as difficult to film as it was to move. Terrorists can strike at any time. Nobody knows that better than the men of this elite Counter Terrorism unit. They rush to the scene of every attack such as this one at a kabul mosque where a suicide bomber blew himself up just steps away. They took us beyond the barbed wire to the main military hospital, the site of a chilling attack last march by the islamic state, one of the many terror groups with a foothold in kabul. The terrorists, they wore the white coats, like a doctor, right . We were told by commanders who were here that five terrorists disguised as doctors got past the hospitals heavy security. They were armed with assault rifles and a weapon that allowed them to quietly move from room to room. Ahmed they had knives. They killed a lot of people with that knife. Logan so they were stabbing people in their beds . Stabbing patients . Ahmed stabbing patient in their beds. Yeah. And opening their stomachs. Logan this former lieutenant led the Assault Force that stormed the building. We agreed to conceal his identity to protect him from reprisals. Ahmed they are very clever. And they can do anything inside. They get into the buildings and they start shooting around and show the weakness of the government. Logan reinforcements landed on the roof. On the ledges below, you can see hospital workers hiding. When cornered, the terrorists detonated grenades strapped to their chests. They murdered more than 50 people that day. Afghans normally bury their dead in a simple cloth shroud. Thats not possible when bodies are obliterated by suicide bombers. It happens so often now, kabuls carpenters have turned to something new making coffins. Theres also greater demand for prosthetic limbs. This orthopedic clinic is run by the International Committee of the red cross. You said the security situation is not getting any better. Dr. Alberto cairo definitely not. I dont see any improvement. Logan dr. Alberto cairo has worked at the clinic for 27 years. He told us hes treating more and more victims of terror attacks. Logan so, you know, many people far away from here think this war is over. Cairo what . The war is over . Please. How can they think of anything like this . No. The war is going on. People are very desperate. People are, they have lost hope. Logan why do you say people have lost hope . Cairo if you consider that the lifespan of the people in afghanistan is around 60 years, it means that at least two thirds of them have seen only war. War, war, war. Logan with americas new strategy, more troops are in, time limits are out, and pakistan is under pressure for being a safe haven for terrorists. General John Nicholson believes this will end the war, something weve heard from previous commanders. Do you have everything you need . Nicholson yeah, with the new policy, i do. Logan this is it, right . I mean, theres no more . This is the end game . Nicholson yes, this is the end game. This is a policy that can deliver a win. Logan nicholson is targeting taliban leaders. This car carried one of their highranking commanders. And striking their largest source of revenue, the drug labs that turn afghanistans most common crop, opium, into heroin. The goal is to do what his predecessors have repeatedly tried and failed force the taliban to cut a deal. In 16 years, not a single taliban fighter has renounced al qaeda or embraced, publicly embraced the afghan constitution. Not a single one. Nicholson in private, they do. Logan they dont do it publicly. Nicholson but they do it in private. Logan it says it all that they wont do it publicly. Nicholson i agree with you. Logan right. So, why all these years people have been trying to bring the taliban to the negotiating table, theyve never come . Nicholson i believe its because they thought they could win. Because they believed we had lost our will to win. Because since 2009 when we announced the surge, we also announced our exit date. And, so, why, if your enemy has announced when hes leaving, then why would you negotiate . Logan all of these people assisted Osama Bin Laden and al qaeda, and were now saying to the american people, we cant defeat them, so were going to negotiate and put them in the government. Nicholson no, were killing them in large numbers. They can either lay down their weapons and rejoin society and be a part of the future of afghanistan, have a better life for their children and themselves, or they can die. Logan you know, Many Americans look at this and they say, you know, weve been there 16 years. Its enough now. We should just come home. Nicholson our country hasnt been attacked in those 16 years. They havent been attacked from afghanistan. Logan a lot of people at home just dont buy that terrorists are coming from afghanistan to attack them at home. Theyre worrying about the guy going to rent a truck from home depot and drive into a crowd of civilians. Nicholson well, this raises the point. We need to defeat the ideology. If we were to lose here or if we were to leave here, the cost would be unacceptable. Why . It would embolden jihadists globally, those living in our own countries. It would convince them of the ultimate success of their cause. In my view, the cost of failure here is unacceptable. How are you . Very good to see you guys. Logan general John Nicholson told us hes giving himself two years to deliver major changes. But its hard not to be skeptical in a city where the enemy has driven American Forces from the roads, into the sky. Lara logan looks back on 16 years covering the war in afghanistan. Logan lara logan for cbs news, kabul go to 60minutesovertime. Com. Sponsored by lyrica. To everyone else, i look like everyone else. But on the inside, i feel chronic, widespread pain. Fibromyalgia may be invisible to others, but my pain is real. Fibromyalgia is thought to be caused by overactive nerves. Lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. Im glad my doctor prescribed lyrica. For some, lyrica delivers effective relief for moderate to even severe fibromyalgia pain. And improves function. Lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. Tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. 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Oh, this is bad. As long as people misplace their keys, you can count on geico saving folks money. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Martin relations with north korea had been going from bad to worse until this past week, when the north suddenly agreed to send a delegation to next months Winter Olympics in south korea. But one thing, the most important thing, hasnt changed. North korea insists it will never give up its Nuclear Weapons and is keeping them aimed at the united states. For years, the north has been boasting about its growing Nuclear Arsenal in an effort to convince the u. S. It cannot be pushed around. Much of that is propaganda, but all good propaganda has an element of truth. To make sure the u. S. Got the message, the North Koreans handed literally handed an american scientist one of their most valuable nuclear secrets. And not just any scientist, but a man who used to be in charge of designing american Nuclear Weapons. Sig hecker i was immensely surprised by how much they showed me, and with the openness with which they showed and explained that to me. Martin for 11 years, sig hecker had been director of Los Alamos National laboratory, birthplace of the american atomic bomb. So he was more than a little surprised when in 2004 he was invited on a tour of north Koreas Nuclear complex. Hecker theres no way in the world theyre going to let me in. By the way, i also thought the u. S. Government wouldnt let me go, but it turns out i was wrong on both accounts. Martin the North Koreans took him to a place called yongbyon, where they had been operating a Small Nuclear reactor. Hecker i would call it primitive but functional. And in fact, all of the instrumentation sort of reminded me when i first got to los alamos in 1965, you know, no modern electronics or anything of that nature. This is a reactor that was not very good for producing electricity, but it was very good for making plutonium. Martin after showing him the reactor, the North Koreans took him to a building where they claimed to be reprocessing spent fuel from the reactor into weaponsgrade plutonium. Hecker they just showed me the facility and basically said, look, you have to believe us, we extracted the plutonium. Martin did you believe them . Hecker the answer was yes, but i didnt let them think that i believed them. Martin so li hong sop, heckers guide and director of the nuclear complex, offered to show him the plutonium. Hecker they bring in, and its a red metal box about yea big, about this thick. They open the metal box. They take out a white wooden box. White wooden box has a slideoff top. So they slide off the top. I look in there. The director says, over here, this glass jar. Thats our product. Thats the plutonium. Martin you know plutonium when you see it. Hecker plutonium by itself is sort of a silvery color if its not oxidized. If it rusts, oxidizes a little bit, it sort of turns gray and black. And this stuff was gray and black. Martin this is what plutonium looks like, the radioactive element which produced the First Nuclear explosion in july, 1945. Hecker so i said, id like to hold the jar with the metal in it. And they allowed me to hold it. So what do i learn from holding . Well, first of all, plutonium is dense. It ought to be heavy. It was. The other thing, plutonium is radioactive. So it glass jar ought to be warm, and it was warm. Robert carlin they wanted to show sig that they really did have plutonium. Martin Robert Carlin has spent his entire career studying north korea, first as an Intelligence Analyst at the c. I. A. And state department, now as a consultant to cbs news. Heres a piece of plutonium, which in any government in the world would be one of the most tightly guarded secrets, and they hand it to an american . Carlin nobody would believe them otherwise, right . People would say, oh, theyre just posturing. Oh, its propaganda. So how are you going to convince the americans . You get an expert who knows plutonium when he sees it, and you, you hand it to him. You say, here it is. What do you think . Martin what impact did the information you came back with have on u. S. Intelligence assessments of the north korean Nuclear Program . Hecker it changed from one of we dont know exactly what they have, if they have enough to make anything, to the fact that they actually could have four to six bombs. Martin well, thats a fairly major change. Hecker thats a big change. Martin u. S. Intelligence relied on Satellite Photos of the Yongbyon Nuclear complex to monitor how much plutonium was being produced by the reactor. David albright this area is where the small plutonium production reactor is. Martin David Albright is director of the institute for science and International Security and a leading expert on north Koreas Nuclear weapons program. How do you know when its operating and when its just in idle . Albright basically, evidence of heat. And and what you see in this picture is theres steam rising here. Martin but Satellite Photos could not solve the mystery of whether north korea was also building a second type of bomb made of uranium, using gas centrifuges like these to enrich the uranium to bombgrade levels. Albright i had many meetings with north korean officials where they vehemently denied they had a gas centrifuge program, denying to the point where theyre pounding you know, almost pounding their fists on the table, getting very angry. Martin in fact, the centrifuge plant was hiding in plain sight, but no one knew it until 2010, when sig hecker was invited back and taken inside that blueroofed building. Hecker on the way in, i had a chief engineer, and he actually, he stopped outside and he said, dr. Hecker, we didnt want to show you this facility, but our superiors made us do it. And so we got up to the second floor, looked down at a hall martin and you saw . Hecker i was just flabbergasted. I could not believe what i was seeing. Essentially, 2,000 centrifuges lined up, looked beautiful, modern. Martin so, why so flabbergasted, though . Everybody suspected they were secretly enriching uranium. Here they are, secretly enriching uranium. Hecker we had no idea they had this many centrifuges, and that modern. And the most amazing thing they put a blue roof on this facility, that is so visible from overhead satellite imagery, and nobody knew. Martin so, theyd built this modern uranium enrichment plant under the noses of u. S. Spy satellites . Hecker of all the spy satellites. So, a lot of people say, well, that shows how bad, you know, our intel agencies are. It doesnt. It shows how easy it is to build those centrifuge facilities and hide them. Martin hecker visited north korea seven times. Each time, the North Koreans were inviting into their midst a Nuclear Scientist who would report everything he saw to u. S. Intelligence. Hecker in all my visits, i think thats a calculus that they always made. How much do they show me in order to convince me of something that theyd like me to take away, but not show me so much that it actually makes them more vulnerable because theyve given me information that theyd rather not give me . So they took that chance with every visit. Martin since heckers last visit, that blueroofed building which held 2,000 centrifuges has doubled in size, and it is almost certainly not the only uranium enrichment plant in north korea. Albright they went out and decided that now were going to buy enough materials, equipment to build, 8,000 centrifuges, 10,000 centrifuges. Martin when they go out on the market to buy that much material, does that become evident . Albright yes, in a sense it was a smoking gun that, that north korea was trying to scale up its gas centrifuge program. Martin u. S. Intelligence estimates that by now, north korea could have enough bomb grade material for as many as 60 weapons, an estimate considerably higher than albrights, who believes those centrifuges break down a lot. Whats your estimate of the number of Nuclear Weapons that north korea has . Albright 13 to 30 Nuclear Weapons as of the end of 2016. Martin 13 to 30 . Albright yeah. Martin to hecker, the precise number is not whats most important. Hecker whats even more important than the 30 or 60 is, how small can they make them . Martin which is what made 2016s show and tell by kim jongun such a watershed event. It was, kim said, a Nuclear Warhead small enough to be mounted on a missile. This is what everybody called the disco ball. Hecker right. Martin what does it look like to you, though . Hecker this, to me, it is one that i would call a spherical fission bomb. In other words, the atomic bomb. Martin remember, hecker was once the director of a lab which designs american Nuclear Weapons, so he knows exactly what to look for in a bomb. Hecker it looks like a simple bomb. However, what i found most important about this is the size of it. It looks to be about 60 centimeters. Martin 60 centimeters across means it would fit on some of north koreas missiles. How do you determine the dimensions of something in a photo like that . Hecker you try to determine kim jonguns midsection. laughs and then you compare. Martin so, you measure the bomb against his girth. Hecker right. So the other way, of course, you have some general idea as to how tall these guys are. Martin hecker has a very good idea how tall the man on the far left is. Thats ri hong sop, the scientist who showed hecker the piece of plutonium in 2004. Hecker director ri hong sop is very highly respected by kim jongun. Martin this past september, when north korea unveiled a sleeker warhead design, one it said was a much more powerful thermonuclear weapon, there was ri hong sop again, briefing kim jongun. It looked very much like Nuclear Weapons hecker had seen when he was director of Los Alamos National laboratory. Hecker that shape is consistent with what we would call the twostage thermonuclear weapon. What that essentially means is sort of a modern hydrogen bomb. Martin could they put that peanutshaped device on a missile . Hecker they definitely want us to think so. In the background, they actually show the warhead positioned in the nose cone of the missile, which we interpreted to be an i. C. B. M. Martin just hours after these photos were released, north korea conducted its sixth and Largest Nuclear test in a remote underground site. U. S. Intelligence estimated the device was many times more powerful than the bomb which destroyed hiroshima. Hecker their confidence level, you know, is amazing. I mean, its amazing. They go and show this thing, and two hours later they detonate this weapon. Martin but there is no way of knowing whether the device they detonated is the same as the one they showed off. Do you believe that north korea has that kind of weapon today . Albright i dont think they have it today. Theres just a lot of engineering challenges, and when you look at other countries like north korea, its taken them quite a long time to master these things. Martin this is their moon shot. Albright yeah, very much so. Martin if you believe north korean propaganda, kim jongun is ecstatic with the progress his Nuclear Scientists have made. Here he is Holding Hands with heckers old tour guide, ri hong sop, in full military uniform, now promoted to director of the Nuclear Weapons program. Carlin theres nothing that appears, that they dont want us to see. Very calculated. Martin Robert Carlins four decades of studying north korea has taught him not to believe everything he sees, but it has also taught him that americans who look down on north korea as a backward nation are making a big mistake. Carlin i think they understand us better than we understand them. Were still weighed down with a lot of stereotypes, and theyre going to trip us up. Martin trip us up how . Carlin we think if we apply enough pressure, well cause them to buckle. And my impression over the years is, this is not a country thats going to buckle. Hecker theyre going to get there, you know, thats, thats one thing you can count on. Weve tried to sanction them into submission. Theyve not submitted. They just keep testing and keep evolving. Look unlike regular cough drops it contains 2 max strength pain relievers and cools in seconds. Bye bye sore throat. Take cepacol instamax. Its a new buick enclave. Whatfits up to seven people. Or. Poodles. Hes actually a bernedoodle. Were home. Lets go. That really makes it easy to unload all those little maniacs. Sure does. Hey honey, we should get one of those and have, like, a ton more kids. Love that. More kids. Wendy, is that a new suv . A new buick enclave. Uh huh. Looks like everybody likes our new enclave. Introducing the allnew buick enclave. Tomorrows suv for todays family. Moderate to severe Rheumatoid Arthritis was intense. My moms pain from i wondered if she could do the stuff she does for us which is kinda, a lot. And if that pain could mean something worse. Joint pain could mean joint damage. Enbrel helps relieve joint pain, and helps stop further damage enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. Serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma other cancers, nervous system and Blood Disorders and allergic reactions have occurred. Tell your doctor if youve been someplace where fungal infections are common. Or if youre prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for Heart Failure or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding or paleness. Dont start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. Since enbrel, my moms back to being my mom. Visit enbrel. Com. And use the joint damage simulator to see how joint damage could progress. Ask about enbrel. Enbrel. Fda approved for over 18 years. 00 deaths in america last year. We need to stand up and say enough. The only way this problem is going to be solved is if we raise our voices. Choose help over helplessness, hope over hopelessness. Make sure that the lives weve lost will not have been lost in vain. Addiction is a disease. When you ask for help, help is there for you. Pelley now, jon wertheim, executive editor of sports illustrated, on assignment for 60 minutes. Wertheim consult any of those lists of the worlds most Livable Cities and, inevitably, portland, oregon, figures prominently. The place is bathed in Natural Beauty. But it also draws high marks for its civic personality, a laidback, tolerant disposition sprinkled with more than a modest dose of eccentric. Keep portland weird is the citys unofficial slogan. Yet last may, portland also witnessed one of the most horrific recent hate crimes. Two men were killed aboard a light rail train after coming to the defense of two black women threatened by a white supremacist. This tragedy shocked portland to the core. It also fed suspicion that this is a city in transition, and made this angry time in political and cultural life real. What is the sound of a community in conversation with itself . We went to the upper left corner of the country to listen. Portland, oregon sits in one of the most Beautiful Spots in america. 90 miles to the east majestic, snowcapped mount hood. 90 miles to the west the rocky pacific coast. For portlands 650,000 residents, their scenic locale is paired with a liberal spirit all cycling and recycling. This sensibility provides the premise for an entire tv show. Portlandia skewers organically, of course the citys progressiveness and preciousness. The tattoo ink never runs dry. Wertheim the citys mayor, ted wheeler, counts himself as a fan, if at times a reluctant one ted wheeler theres one episode where theres a fourway stop, and everybodys waiting for everybody else to go. Fred armison go ahead. Carrie brownstein no, no, no, go ahead. Armison go ahead. Brownstein no, you go. Armison no, no, no, you first brownstein no, you go, you go. Armison no, way, go ahead. Wheeler that is so portland. Wertheim people in portland they either love it, or they hate it. And the people who love it, love it because its funny because its true. And the people who hate it, hate it because its true. Brownstein you go. Armison you sure . Okay. Brownstein we would be failing if it wasnt hitting close to home, because we are digging deep into our own lives. Wertheim portlandia is the brainchild of Carrie Brownstein and fred armison, both parttime portland residents. Some of this, youre poking fun at yourself, i assume. Brownstein always armison some allmostly. Remember when people were content to be unambitious, many had no occupations whatsoever, maybe working a couple of hours a week at a coffee shop . Brownstein i thought that died out a long time ago. Armison not in portland. Portland is a city where young people go to retire. Wertheim colin meloy, founder of the rock band the decemberists, was one of the many starving artists who retired to cheap, hip portland in the 1990s. Colin meloy the real ideal was to to work as little as possible to afford, you know, your basic living costs, and then have as much time leftover to write or to play shows wertheim go be creative. Meloy yeah. Wertheim meloy moved here from montana, and lived in a converted warehouse. Meloy and i think i was probably paying, like, 180. Something like that. Wertheim you were paying 180 a month of rent . Meloy yeah wertheim whether they love portlandia or hate it, people in portland report reallife moments when they feel like theyre in an episode. Jeff goldblum im going to help you with all things doily. Wertheim take, for example, the superspecialty shops the show lampoons. Armison how does this work . Do we just buy a box of doilies . Goldblum no, we tailor the doilies here to your needs. Wertheim we found a lovely reallife shop with 120plus different kinds of salt. Kaitlin hansen its a oaxacan mexican sea salt that is infused with chipotle pepper and a pasilla pepper. And then, it has groundup agave tequila worms in it wertheim groundup agave tequila worms in your salt . Hansen you know the little teq uhhuh, yeah. Wertheim oh, yeah. Brownstein is that u. S. D. A. Organic, or oregon organic, or portland organic . Waitress its just all across the board, organic. Wertheim portlandia makes fun of the citys selfconscious food culture waitress here is the chicken you will be enjoying tonight, his name was collin. Here are his papers, okay . Wertheim while in real portland, even the food carts have a gourmet feel. Vendor altengartz veggie bratwurst, with caramelized onions. Wertheim this is my maiden veggie bratwurst. Vendor all right, enjoy. Wertheim who says you cant make a good sausage out of chickpeas . Pretty good. Thats the thing all the food carts and bike lanes and live music and microbreweries are easily mocked, but they make for a pretty good life, too. On portlandia, the only thing that even comes close to conflict an insurrection by baristas in the citys many coffee shops. Brownstein we hereby begin a manifesto against customers and management. Wertheim and its here, unmistakably, where parody and reality diverge. Brownstein rule number one. No chatter at counter. Wertheim in reallife portland, at least lately, theyre arguing over a lot more than coffee. More than four times as many people here voted for Hillary Clinton as for donald trump. Not my president wertheim and after his election, some of the countrys largest street demonstrations arose in portland. Steve duin i think people are alarmed on a daily basis by whats happening, and they feel in a relatively safe place in portland and in oregon to mount their defense. Wertheim steve duin is a longtime columnist for the local newspaper, the oregonian. What is it like for portland these days when the progressivism of this city is not necessarily reflected on a National Level . Duin unbelievably gratifying. Wertheim it is . Duin i mean, yes. This city, if its having a moment, maybe its a moment of clarity. Maybe its a moment of gratitude, thankfulness that most people in this city do not subscribe to the unbelievable notions of civility and generosity coming out of the Nations Capital right now. screaming and shouting wertheim but the streets of portland have been notably uncivil since Donald Trumps election. Precisely because its a liberal enclave, rightwing nationalists have targeted the city with rallies and marches. Theyve been met by farleft antifa protestors theyre the ones wearing the masks with people on each side trying to bait the other into violence. Wheeler the ability to disagree amicably is an art much in jeopardy. Wertheim in 2016, when ted wheeler ran for mayor, portland was placid. Hes now presiding over a suddenly pugnacious city. Wheeler excuse me excuse me nick fish there were things said about the mayors mother that should never be said in any public forum. Wheeler where i think weve gotten a little sideways as a culture, is people take it very personally if you have a different perspective, or a different point of view. I would just say we need to lighten up. Wertheim you say lighten up, but across the street from where we are, we weve had protests, and counterprotests, and riot gear. Whats going on in portland . Wheeler absolutely, sure. Well, portland has a long history of protest, and counter protest. And we are a progressive community. And as a result, there are some very farright organizations that like to come here, and they like to protest. Wertheim wheeler calls the targeting of portland by White Nationalists an attempt to poke the bear. This is what the bear looks like here. First things first. Whats david sure. Wertheim whats with the face masks . David well, being anti fascist activists is not always safe. Wertheim four members of portlands rose city antifa, their matching hoodies proclaiming fighting fascism since 2007, agreed to meet us only in an Anonymous Hotel room. They say their mission is to organize selfdefense against White Supremacists and fascist groups. Is there any interest in in dialogue . Is there any interest in conversation . David you know, with with White Supremacists who are threatening the lives of people that we care about, there there is no such thing as dialogue. Wertheim if only theyd waited an hour, they could have encountered their archenemy, a guy named joey gibson. He has organized and led recent rightwing demonstrations in portland. Just after antifa left, he came to the very same hotel room, with the very same its not safe to be seen in public ground rules. Joey gibson ive been attacked from all over the place. Theres a lot of people, they dont like my message. Wertheim the message on his hoodie reads patriot prayer, but he pleads guilty to mayor wheelers charge of coming to portland to provoke, to poke the antifa bear. Gibson its also been about bringing antifa out on the streets, too, to help people see what theyre willing to do. Wertheim they feel threatened at your events. They dont feel safe there. Gibson then dont come. Wertheim you you just said you wanted them to come. Gibson no, im saying, of course we want them to come because we want to expose them for who they are. Wertheim as for who he is, gibson insists hes no fascist or white supremacist. However gibson we had a White Nationalist show up at one of the the freedom marches. I mean, yeah, thats absolutely true. Wertheim the White Nationalist gibson is talking about was jeremy christian, who in may, police say, stabbed two men to death on a light rail train after they came to the defense of two African American women christian was harassing. One of the women was wearing a hijab. The crime made international news, in part because it ran so counter to portlands peace and love image. Jeremy christian you call it terrorism, i call it patriotism you hear me . Wertheim its likely true that the alleged crime had as much to do with Mental Illness as racial animus. But its also true that portlands progressive present is very much at odds with its prejudiced past. Wheeler portland is one of the leastdiverse cities of its size in the united states, and i dont think we can really move into the future, unless we confront some of the darker things about our past. And the reality is, we have a racist past. Wertheim that includes a state constitution adopted in 1857 that actually banned black people from moving to oregon, and a oncerobust k. K. K. Presence. Wheeler and so we have a lot of making up to do. And theres a lot of old history, and hard feelings that are still very much just under the surface. Wertheim wheeler has taken at least one concrete step to address those hard feelings; hiring an African American woman as police chief. But the inequality runs deep. The average Family Income for whites in portland is more than double that of African Americans. Demonstrator we are black every single day, all day. So we will fight for our rights every single day. Meloy i think that there are cracks in that sort of facade of of cute and precious portland. And there there is a lot of people sort of frustrated and angry in the city, as there are in any city. Director roll sound, please. Wertheim its fitting that portlandia is now in its final season, because it satirizes a city that no longer exists. Starving artists may still want to come here, but with the average rent for a studio apartment at 1,200 bucks a month, where will they live . Too often, the answer is the streets. Portlands Homeless Population is up 10 in just the last two years. Wheeler and were struggling with a lot of the same issues that other big cities are struggling with. The human catastrophe of homelessness. Were struggling with housing affordability. We have all the same problems other communities do, too. Meloy i think if were at a crossroads, its, like, okay, now, were done being the cute city that everybody wants to sort of laugh about but love. What are we going to do now . Wertheim what is portland going to do now . Mayor i am outraged. Look at this. Portlangeles does that make you happy . It doesnt make me happy wertheim on portlandia, the mayor, played by actor kyle maclachlan, has his answer mayor ive decided that we need to secede and form our own weird and yet independent nation. cheers and applause wertheim in some ways, thats what reallife portland has done, doubling down without apology on the weird and independent. Its annual adult soap box derby and naked bike race . Theyll go on as scheduled, thanks. And columnist steve duin would like to see the city go even further, and become a refuge for those whod like to flee the angry politics of 21st century america. Sounds like youre describing an oregon trail thats being populated, not with not with pioneers, but with progressives headed to this part of the world. Duin well, i dont know if people have figured that out yet. I i dont know if they quite recognize the refuge that is available here, the Natural Beauty that is available here, the progressive politics and openness and empathy that is available here by and large. But, if theyre looking for it, you know, westward ho. This cbs sports update is brought the you by the lincoln motor company. Imed a saddam zuker in new york with a look at the a. F. C. Playoff picture. Last night tom brady tossed three touchdowns as new england crushed tennessee 3514. Earlier today on cbs, jacksonville pulled the upset in pittsburgh 4542. That sets up the a. F. C. Championship game next sunday on cbs as jacksonville will try to knock off the defending super bowl champs in new england. For more sports news and information gosh, to cbssports. Com. With 33 individual vertebrae scles no two of us are alike. Life made more effortless through adaptability. The perfect position seat in the lincoln continental. in the lincoln continental. That cough doesnt sound so good. Well i think you sound great. Move over. Easy booger man. Take mucinex dm. Itll take care of your cough. Fine ill text you in 4 hours when your cough returns. One pill lasts 12 hours, so. Looks like im good all night. Ah david, please, listen. Still not coughing. Not fair you guys waffles are my favorite ah why take 4hour cough medicine . Just one mucinex lasts 12 hours. Start the relief. Ditch the misery. Lets end this. Pelley 50 seasons of 60 minutes. From 39 years ago, tonight, morley safer interviewing the legendary Katharine Hepburn. Safer do you feel like a legend . Do you feel Katharine Hepburn no, i dont think anyone feels safer like the Katharine Hepburn . Hepburn no. I dont think anyone feels like anything, really. You know, i always fo felt they were out to get me safer they being hepburn and that id better be good. And i still think id better be good, you know. I struggle to do my best. Safer i understand that, but hepburn ive struggled for days to do my best for this, do you know what i mean . And i dont think you ever feel like anything. You feel like a bore. laughs you know, dont you . Or do you feel fascinating . Safer no no, i i no, i feel like a bore a good most of the time. Hepburn like a bore. Like a bore. Safer yeah. Hepburn then you think, my god, theyre going to find out what a bore i am, and then thatll be a terrible thing. Pelley im scott pelley. Well be back next week with another edition of 60 minutes. The updates you made to your plan strengthened your retirement score. So, that goal youve been saving for, you can do it. We can do this . We can do this. At fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement while saving for the things you want to do today. Nana, lets do this aye aye, captain and as you go through life whoo tryin to reach your goal captioning funded by cbs and ford. We go further, so you can. Captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org previously on wisdom of the crowd. Tanner do you know any of these people . No, which means that. He could be one of them. Durand hes actually the one who took the photograph. She said she knew him through you. You shouldve just kept your mouth shut about that girl. grunts the last time we saw each other, i was accusing your son of the worst possible crime. Im not sure what to think anymore. If he didnt kill mia and he dies because of this. All we can hope is that we get a chance to make this right. Ochoa gets high, goes to the street fair, which means that he couldve been at the street fair at the time that mia was killed. Sara and there he is. knocking on door hey, come on in. Alex hey