Transcripts For KTVU KTVU 20240704

Third arraignment this year. This time, special counsel jack smith is charging trump with four counts related to his attempts to overturn the results of the 2020 president ial election, which prosecutors say rose to the level of criminal conduct. His plane landed about ten minutes ago. Moments from now, we expect his motorcade to be en route to the courthouse. Once there, hes expected to enter not guilty pleas on all four counts. You see mr. Trump exiting his airplane right now. Now, to view those four counts, heres the breakdown. Count one, conspiracy to defraud the United States that involves those fake slates of electors in seven piracy to obstruct an official proceeding, count three, obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding. Both those counts involve attempts to block the vote certification at the capitol on january 6th and count for conspiracy against rights, trying to block legally cast ballots in the 2020 election, according to prosecutors, as was the case with his previous arraignments, were not expecting to see the former president in the courthouse because no cameras are allowed. Hell likely be ushered in through an underground entrance and almost certainly wont make any statements to the press, though we could hear from members of his legal team. Now we have heard from trump on social media today, including a post on truth social, where he said, quote, i need one more indictment to ensure my election, likely referring to the bump he gets in the polls and in fundraising any time he is indicted. This new indictment alleges the former president and his allies were engaged in a massive criminal conspire to ensure he stayed in office, centering on the so called fake elector scheme, where trump allies persuaded officials in some battleground states to falsely sign documents certifying trump as the alsoly s supporters, directing them to march on the capitol, even though he knew he lost the election. Its worth noting the federal courthouse where trump is appearing is just a few blocks from the capitol, and police are out in force today to keep the peace. Lets go live to the courthouse where our colleague Madeleine Rivera is standing by. Madeleine, tell us what security like there. Caroline, security presence at the nations capitol is always heavy, but of course, it is heavier today because of trumps Court Appearance. So right behind us, youll see there are bike rack barricade surrounding the courthouse. The metropolitan police department, which is the local Law Enforcement here in d. C. They are working with federal partners, which includes the secret service, the marshals office, park police and us Capitol Police. Just a few blocks away from us is the capitol. As you well know, caroline. And around it are bike rack barricades as well. And that is typical for any major event in and around the capitol after january six. But were told by Capitol Police that they are on high alert after false reports of an active shooter yesterday day in the building. So while they say there is no security threat, they are, of course, being very vigilant. As for the crowds here, we now have a point of comparison. Of course, youve covered the indictment and arraignments of former President Trump in florida and new york. And i will tell you, caroline, the number of people that we have seen outside of the courthouse so far is nothing compared to what we have seen on those two previous occasions. Caroline and madeleine, what do we expect when trump arrives . We are watching his motorcade leave Reagan National airport right now, expecting him to arrive, perhaps 20 minutes from now. What can we expect when he arrives and heads to the courtroom . You know, were hearing from sources that theres still a possibility that trump could go inside the courthouse through the front entrance. But the preference of the secret service is for him to go through a garage, as you mentioned. And once hes here, trumps Court Appearance is expected to be pretty quick. He will be processed like any other criminal defendant. He will be fingerprinted. He wont have a mugshot taken. Instead, another previously taken photo of the former president will be uploaded. He will appear before a magistrate judge and he will be read the charges against him. And if this is a formal arraignment, we do, of course, expect him to plead not guilty. Bond conditions will be set, but there will be no jail or bail time. So all in all, this should be pretty routine and pretty cursory. Caroline and President Trump and his lawyer have said he cannot get a fair trial in d. C. Theyve actually suggested it be moved to West Virginia. Any chance of that . They can certainly make that argument, caroline, but the judge here will take who will take over the case a judge, tanya shukan. She she is its unlikely that she will go for this. Caroline other several several other january 6th defendants have made that case before and they were unsuccessful. Caroline Madeleine Rivera reporting from the d. C. Courthouse just a short three blocks away from the d. C. Bureau. Now lets listen in to fox News Coverage of this breaking news. That poll that really stood out to me, 71 of republicans say that its time to stick with President Trump, stand behind, i think are the words there. What do you think . Yeah. And this only helps them. Weve seen every time theres an indictment, ihelpin fundraising. It helps in polling. And this is good messaging for him. Months ago, before the first indictment here in new york, he was asked, will you drop out of the race if youll get indicted . And he said, no, i think it will help my numbers. I mean, hes very prescient about that. Like you said, hes got a good ear for these things and he understands and, you know, not far from where hes going to be, by the capitol, by the white house, another block pass, that is the us Supreme Court. And thats where some of these things may end up, because these are all uncharted territory. Brand new cases, brand new theories in many ways to see a former president facing dozens and dozens of criminal charges. These are questions that could end up there with those justices. Three of them who came on his watch. So a lot of legal wrangling to go the judge hes going to ultimately face in this case has been very tough on the january 6th defendants who have come before she sentence 38. All of them have gotten prison time. Shes ruled in 2021 against the president on something regarding documents for the january 6th committee. So his team has got a very, very long uphill battle with this judge and jury, probably in dc, too. Yeah, i just want to follow up with one thing there. Do you think that these cases go to trial before the election . I have doubts about that. I mean, theres so much pretrial wrangling that you do motions, interlocutory appeals, especially in the maralago case. Youve got so many classified documents there that people will file challenges to. You have to winnow all that down before you can actually take it to a jury. So i have real doubts that the federal cases could get there. Yeah. Plus, theres the other layer of whether or not it is appropriate to bring a case that close to an election. So i think thats something to really watch closely. Jessica i was just listening to Andy Mccarthy and he said something. He says a lot of interesting things, but he said something that really caught me in just a moment ago. He said, everyone in america, im paraphrasing andy, sees the haste to get these cases to trial on a political calendar. How do you think that reflects on democrats . Well i think it reflects fine on democrats because the cases arent being brought by the democrats. Theyre being brought by a special counsel. And hes being indicted by a grand jury. Hes not being indicted by andy mccabe and peter strzok sitting in a room. And people tend to forget that. And ive heard so much about the potential biases of this judge in dc. Look at the judge that he got in florida. He got someone that he appointed who already ruled in favor of him with the special master and then had to be overruled by the 11th circuit. So you know, its a bit of this and a bit of that, right . Like i love the people of south florida. I cant get a fair shake with the people in dc. Well dont commit crimes in dc if you dont want to see a jury of dc residents. Thats how it works. Dont commit crimes at all. And you could just be running like a normal candidate. I think i was particularly struck by bill barrs interview last night. He was with Kaitlan Collins and he went long. Right. I thought this was going to be one block. And he stayed until about 40 minutes into there. And really gave a whole host of opinions on this. And one thing that particularly struck me was that he thought that the indictment was stronger than he expected. It to be. So he thinks the maralago case, the classified documents case is the strongest. And theres agreement, i think, on both sides of the aisle that that, you know, with the audiotapes and the pictures, etcetera. But bill barr was saying that this is now a case that he understands why it was brought and that there was new information there, specifically with mike pences testimony, which to the january 6th committee was not able to get. Yeah, he said that arguments of freedom, freedom of speech doesnt protect you from from from conspiracy. And if that if they can prove that link i think the links are difficult. Theyre tenuous in many ways. When you try to connect those two things together. But were going to continue with our panel in just a moment. Our team of great coverage here from of the former president s trump arraignment. You see the vehicles as they make their way across here. And we have coming up, well talk to brett baier, well talk to neil cavuto. Well talk to Andy Mccarthy later this hour. Also joining us, jonathan turley, congressman jim jordan weighs in. Weve got a lot going on here today because we now have this transcript from what devin archer actually told the oversight committee. And now President Joe Biden about the about their interactions with hunter and his business partners. Wow. This is fascinating as well. So they will be here in moments. Dont go anywhere. Lots going on in the story. You have been watching fox News Coverage of this breaking news at this hour. Former President Donald Trump arrived arriving at Reagan National airport, now making his way in a motorcade driving about 20 minutes to the d. C. Federal courthouse where we expect him to be brought through in a garage possibly. We will not see the former president , but a judge wi we are told, will be taken, but then he will enter a courtroom and speak in front of a federal magistrate. He will plead not guilty, we are told, to the four counts against him. That should be coming in the next few minutes. There are so many charges against the former president. I want to do the breakdown for you. If you take the three jurisdictions, state and now two federal jurisdictions where he is charged, there are 78 counts in this case. However, in d. C. Only four counts against the former president. Lets roll through them. Count one is conspiracy to defraud the United States. That of course, involve those fake electors, those electors that the president and his allies said should vote for him instead of the duly elected electors who were supposed to vote for President Biden. Thats count one. Now, count two is conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding. That, of course, refers to the january sixth count of the actual electors. What he did, according to prosecutors, was to wage this Pressure Campaign against mike pence, his Vice President , who was the one who would officially sign off making joe biden the next president of the United States. Trump and his allies, his legal allies were trying to make pence not sign those and instead endorse these fake slates of electors. Now count three is also related to january sixth. That is obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding. Both of those counts are felonies, as the other two counts against him now count four. That is a conspiracy against rights trying to block legally cast ballots in the 2020 election. That is according to prosecute and was the case with his previous arraignments. We are not expecting to see the former president. What you are looking at right now is the drive many of us take to work here. Here in the dc bureau, were just a couple blocks away from the federal courthouse. That is a motorcade that is a live camera you see going on 3. 95 there, probably 2 or 3 minutes before the president , before the former president arrives to the courthouse to face this federal magistrate. Now, outside of the courthouse, we are told by my colleague Madeleine Rivera, things are pretty calm. Law enforcement is absolutely everywhere. Of course , its within a stones throw of the United States capitol. That was the center of all this. On january 6th, when the riot happened, a thousand cases against the folks who broke into the capitol that day have been filed and are now working their way through the federal courthouse. Many of those folks have actually been charged in the very courthouse where President Trump is about to arrive as hes going through the tunnel emerging any moment now, we possibly wont see President Trump at all. There is a garage on the back side of there. You can drive into it. Its underground and theres a back way for the former president to get into the pretty minute federal courthouse that of course, is what his secret service detail, whos already checked the place out. Thats what they want. They want the least exposure to President Trump possible. But of course, President Trump has often spoken in the past about how he gets a bump in his poll numbers. Every time he gets indicted, he gets a bump in his fundraising of on july 16th, when he was notified that he got this target letter, he shortly sent out a Fundraising Campaign and raise more money of that. So it is possible under one scenario that he walks in the front door of the d. C. Federal courthouse. But, of course, Law Enforcement has been trying to convince him, keep a low profile, do not be exposed. Just walk in and go to the courtroom. We will not see him in the courtroom. However, there are no cameras allowed anywhere in the hallways and certainly not in the courtroom at this courthouse. Now, we have heard from President Trump on social media last night at about 11 p. M. He was posting and back at it again today. Heres the quote. I need one more indictment to ensure my election. He was likely referring to the bump he gets in the polls and in fundraising any time he is indicted. Now, this new indictment alleges the former president and his allies were engaged in a massive criminal conspiracy to ensure he stayed in office, centering on these socalled fake elector scheme. What the president did with some of his legal allies, those seven states that joe biden had barely won. Came up with a fake elector scheme that they would substitute in their by keeping the president in office past january 20th. Of course, that failed. He did not do that. It was after the january sixth attempted coup. However he did indeed leave office. Now, that plan would have been in some of the battleground states to falsely sign documents certifying trump as the winner instead of biden. Prosecutors are also accusing trump of deliberately deceiving his supporters, directing them to march on the capitol, even though he knew he lost the election. Lets dip back into live coverage by fox news. Yes, i didnt think i would ever see that it well, i do think the end result the takeaway is i think this just strengthens just hardens the support for President Trump and frankly, expands it. I think dana was mentioned earlier in the show that, you know, you look at the poll numbers earlier in the week, i think its 54 to 17in the republican primary. But more importantly, hes dead even with joe biden in the New York Times poll. So my gut tells you is that what the New York Times is saying, its probably better for President Trump in that in in another poll. And this i think, only again, hardens his support , expands his support because the country gets it. And i think the reason thats happening is so much of the country is sick of this nonstop attack. This ridiculous attack on President Trump for seven years now. And theyre tired of this this elite attitude in dc that says, oh, were better than everyone else. Theres a different set of rules. And i think people in flyover country hillbillies in ohio or iowa or oklahoma, theyre so sick of it. Were so sick of it. Were saying were going to support President Trump. I think thats the i think thats the takeaway. I think thats the result of all this. Yeah. I mean, that is absolutely echoed in the polls that you just mentioned and that we were all talking about just moments ago. Its clear and its clear that President Trump, the former president , knows that. He said in his truth social post just a short time ago, you know, basically im doing this for you. Im you know, i dont mind doing this. Its an honor or Something Like that because im doing this for you. Its fascinating to watch this play out and especially so in the wake of side of the aisle with this hunter biden and i just want to put this up while were waiting for this arrival and ill cut out of this if we see that arrival, guys, im sure this is pretty interesting. This is a letter that joe biden wrote to devon archer in 2011. He was i guess, you know, they were just starting out in this business trying to put together a business that dealt with government regulatory measures and making that into a private equity fund and, you know, all sort of under the auspices of the support that they would get from washington at that time. And ostensibly, the Vice President , dear devin, he says, i apologize for not getting a chance to talk to you at the luncheon yesterday. I was having trouble getting away from hosting president who . The president of china, by the way. I hope i get a chance to see you again with hunter. I hope you enjoyed lunch. Thanks for coming. And then he signs it. And then a little ps he says, happy you guys are together. What do you make of this letter and his contention that he doesnt have any connection to his son or devon archer in these businesses that they were runningce that he did have connections. And remember, two and a half years ago, we had a former business partner, mr. Bobulinski, say that the email from the laptop, the laptop we now know was real, the fbi knew was real at the time. The email, it says 10 for the big guy. He says the big guy is joe biden. We have the piece of evidence you just talked about there. This note from 2011. We have the whatsapp message. We now know because of the whistleblower that came forward where hunter biden sitting beside his dad, say send the money or else my dad, whos sitting beside me, is going to do something. Then we have the 1023 form which says, you know, the confidential human source have been trusted by the fbi talking with foreign nationals, sending money to the bidens for certain political outcomes, certain. You have been listening to live coverage of fox news and the indictment of former President Donald Trump. We are joined once again by our colleague Madeleine Rivera. Madeleine, whats it like outside the courthouse now . You know, it hasnt changed much, caroline, since we last spoke to a few minutes ago. I mean, we do have a group of protrump supporters as well as antitrump protesters over here. But again, as we have talked about in the last few minutes, when we compare it to what weve seen in new york and florida, were just not seeing that same numbers over here. But we can expect this crowd to potentially build as former President Trump gets closer to the courthouse. And as he leaves the courthouse as well. Caroline, you mentioned some of those other cases, these four counts today are among the 40 that trump is facing in new york, florida, and now washington, d. C. You were in miami. Take us through that process. How does this compare . I think were going to see a similar process play out as we saw in miami. But when you talk about those previous cases, you know, as you mentioned, caroline, we have been here before as it relates to new york and florida. But there are some that would say that this case is so much grander in scope because you have special counsel, jack smith, accusing the former president here of spearheading this multipronged effort to overturn the results of the 2020 election, subverting the will of the voters, which is the bedrock of american democracy. By the way, and continuing to spread these claims of Election Fraud despite knowing, according to special counsel jack smith, a former President Trump knew that what he was saying was untrue. And we have seen a bit of a preview of what trumps legal defenses would be. Former President Trumps attorneys say that he was protected under the First Amendment. But you can see in the indictment that special counsel jack smith laid out. He undercuts that argument, saying that trump did indeed have the first have the First Amendment right to say that there was Election Fraud. But what he says, trump did not have a right to do was orchestrate the scheme to overturn legitimate votes. Trumps legal team could also argue that trump did not have corrupt intent, that he truly believed that the election was stolen. But again, smith, also a acknowledges that in the indictment, saying that trump did know that what he was doing was not true, was that these claims of Election Fraud were not true because he was told repeatedly by people in his inner circle from his former Vice President to senior officials in the doj, that there were no legitimate claims of Election Fraud. Caroline another possible defense is he had lawyers. He had rudy giuliani, he had sidney powell, he had john eastman, he had other Legal Advisers who were giving him these ideas, saying, yes, indeed , this is legal. You can have these fake electors, you can take these other steps, could he possibly use advice of counsel as a defense . Sure he could say that as well. But you had other members of the white House Counsel who were also telling him that what he was doing, again, was not right and that there were no legitimate claims of Election Fraud. And you mentioned those names. Those could potentially be named as coconspirators in this indictment, as we saw in the indictment, there were six coconspirators who were unidentified. But we have been able to deduce at fox who some of those cocounsel directors could be based on the descriptions in this indictment. So john eastman, for people who might not be familiar with him, he is a constitutional lawyer who many see as the architect of this scheme to overturn the 2020 election results. He was behind this plan to submit a false slate of protrump electors. In fact, his legal team told fox a couple of days ago that they do , in fact, believe that their client will be named as a coconspirator. As for the other names that we potentially could see named eventually, we could see charges in the future days or coming weeks, perhaps. Rudy giuliani, sidney powell, jeffrey clark. And there are potentially other people as well that fox just hasnt been able to confirm just yet. Caroline so many charges we mentioned 40 charges. If you add up the new york case and the florida case and now here in washington, dc, lets take people through it. You were up there in new york. He faces charges in new york city over alleged hush money payments to an adult film star. Can you review that for us . So that might be a little abstract for people to get. But in in short. Right. He was accused of making hush money payments in 2016 and the days leading up to the 2016 election. Now, hush money payments are not illegal, but its just the way that they were documented in the books of the trump organization. And that was the core of that indictment. In that case, i just dont want to get into the weeds of this, caroline, because i think a lot of it goes over peoples heads and then the other case, of course, is the classified documents case in florida. And that ones a little bit easier to grasp. Trump is alleged to have mishandled classified documents after he left the white house. There was obviously that on president did search of his mar a lago home last year in which hundreds of classified documents were found in his estate. And trump has made the argument that he had free rein over those documents and he could have kept them and whatever he could with them, which, of course, is a theory that legal experts have tried to pierce caroline and madeleine. Were talking about three cases here before november 2024, the Trump Legal Team wants him to wants the judges to push this past the election. They lost that battle in florida. Theres now a Court Date Set in that case in may, although legal experts do say that will likely slide. How will they possibly get through all of these cases all at the time that President Trump, former President Trump, needs to be spent in a courtroom . How can they combine that with his Campaign Schedule . Well i think thats the logistical question here, right . We are an unprecedented territory here, caroline. So weve seen former President Trump see a bump in the polls after the past two indictments when it comes to fundraising, hes seen a bump. But were starting to see data shows that the fundraising is starting to get a little bit lower. He didnt raise as much after the second indictment as compared to what he raised in new york. But there is also this logistical complication here. So former President Trump, you know, as you mentioned, his trials in the new york case, the hush money payments case, as well as the classified documents case, those are set to begin in march. And may of next year. And of course, trump will be that will be in the thick of campaign season. So theres very much a scenario here where we could see former President Trump peel away from the campaign trail for days, potentially weeks at a time to attend these trials. Caroline and madeleine, the next twist in this could come in georgia. We are now waiting to find out if hell be indicted by a georgia grand jury in Fulton County. The da there potentially bringing charges related to him, trying to overturn the election that joe biden won in georgia and throughout the United States. Can you tell us a little bit about what we expect in that potential case . Yep. We could potentially see this entire scenario play out all over again. So a grand jury in georgia is weighing state charges against the former president in regards to his and his allies efforts to overturn the 2020 election. And Fulton County District Attorney fani willis said over the weekend that her office is done with their work. They have been working over the last two and a half years. They are ready to move forward with charging decision decisions rather so after here in d. C, our eyes will shift over towards georgia. And you know, we could see something similar in mattie. We are looking at the live pictures of the courthouse. It looks like a swarm of folks, but everyone seems pretty calm. I can hear someone singing behind you. We see a very heavy police presence. It looks like many of the streets down there are closed to a line of satellite trucks. We will now go to live coverage with fox news from the capitol where the january 6th riots happened in city came down the third street and turned into the garage as motorcade went in there. Whats happening at this moment, we believe to be happening is the processing before he goes before a magistrate judge, hell be processed to have his fingerprints taken. There will be no mug shot. He will not be arrested. But once he gets through the processing and hes in the hands of the us marshals, he will then make that initial Court Appearance. And the Court Confirms for us that he will be arraigned, hell be flanked by his attorneys, todd blanch and john lauro in the lead there. We fully expect he will plead not guilty to the four felonies hes facing. Three are conspiracy charges. One is an obstruction charge. Now, the magistrate judge will go before today is not the judge that will preside over the trial. That is a judge named tanya chutki, a 2014 obama appointee. Shell deal with the majority of the trial. This is just the initial Court Appearance and the arraignment. And this magistrate judge, we dont expect it to take a long time on the scene out here. By the way, obviously heightened security. You can see the us marshals put up railing all around here. A lot of Law Enforcement, a handful of protesters, some for the president , some against the former president , and a lot of media. Its somewhat resembles a scene we saw in june when we were down in miami, outside the courthouse, when former President Trump was arraigned for alleged mishandling of classified documents. But its a little less of a circus, but nonetheless, certainly historic in nature. We have no idea exactly what the former president will do afterwards. You remember in miami, martha, he went to a cuban restaurant and was very visible to the public. Were not sure exactly whats going to happen now, but we do know this. He will finish this being arraigned on his third indictment in four months, a total across the new york charges. The miami charges in the dc charges 78 total crimes. Hes facing. Its really stacking up the legal woes for the former president martha. All right, griff jenkins, thank you very much. Outside the courthouse in washington, dc. Lets bring in our next excellent panel. Weve got neil cavuto, anchor of your world, bret baier, fox news chief political anchor and executive editor and anchor of special report. And Andy Mccarthy is back with us, former federal prosecutor, Fox News Contributor and jonathan turley, constitutional attorney, gw law professor and also a Fox News Contributor. Great to have all of you with us. Thank you so much for being here. Neal, let me start with you. Your thoughts as we hear that the president is inside having his fingerprints taken for the third time in this indictment . You know, were getting used to this, arent we, martha . Its weird. Its very, very weird. But i was thinking of just what the president , a former president , is facing and what his outlook calendar would look like as they pen in all these events that are coming up. And i know theyre all moving targets, but youve got just potentially a couple of months away investigation into the president s finances and a potential extended session at that in january. Youre going to have the second part of the jean carroll, jean king, civil rape case. Thats something he has to deal with in march. Maybe the whole hush money case and payments to stars and all of that. Then you get past that and the big trial, the whole maralago document thing, that that is probably the most significant of all of these for the time being. But i always say for the time being, because some of these, as obviously the president will like to push off and maybe delay until past the election, i dont know whether that could be done with all of these. And we have another one coming up potentially from georgia regarding the president s role or alleged role in the recount there and whether he was trying to force it his way. But but just to keep track of that and to understand that this is a guy as the leading candidate by a country mile for president of the United States in the Republican Party and dead even money, if not better, in a general election rundown, despite all of this, maybe because all of this, it is just staggering. It really is. You know what . Lets go back to that. Neil. Thank you for laying that out. And we have that on the big board down there as well. And if i could just ask you to take a close look at that down there. And this is really astonishing. So on the upper level here, youve got starting with the debate on august 23rd, youve got all the political events right, which ends with the election november along the bottom, you have all of these different Court Appearances. It is truly stunning. Brett, when you look at this match up in what has been called a rotating carnival of court houses and rallies, this is really we talk about on precedent a lot, but this combination very unprecedented in president ial election cycle. Yeah. Martha good afternoon. I think neil put his finger on it. This is surreal. It really is. But to danas point, at the beginning of the show, its also ordinary now in our third indictment and our third roundabout on this, this election will be nothing like weve ever seen before. The 45th president is running for the white house again. His Vice President served with him. Is ht pof this indictment part of this in a paragraph where it talks about a phone call that only Vice President pence and President Trump were on very detailed in which President Trump allegedly says, according to the indictment, according to Vice President pence that he is too honest. Now take that moment in this indictment and put it in politics. The Vice President currently is campaigning running against his former boss, and theyve just come out with merchandise hats and t shirts, t shirts that say to honest mm, were in a different place now and the courtroom and what happens in these all these cases . And the rallies versus President Biden , whose Approval Rating is going down, and President Trumps whos going up inside the gop primary. Its a fascinating upside down world of sorts and incredible to watch this play out. Its a piece of american history, no matter how you slice it and how you feel about whats going on here. Jonathan turley was interesting. I spoke to former Vice President pence current candidate yesterday. He believes that the president asked him to put the former President Donald Trump above the constitution, and he says that you cannot serve no one should be president. Who would do that. Youre a constitutional attorney. Did he do that . And if that is the case, do you agree with mike pence . That was a fascinating interview, particularly when you asked how he would vote on the jury, which i was was quite a question, he said. I im not sure why. The fact is that pence was right on that day, you know, i criticized President Trumps speech while he was giving it on the air, and i and also criticism, pence pence had no choice but to do what he did. And he carried out his constitutional function. The question is whether being wrong means that you are a criminal and that is what is really at the heart of this indictment that in the indictment is full of references to how the president spread lies that he spread disinformation and how so many people told him he was wrong. Why was one of them . But he listened to others, he listened to a small group of lawyers. Who were presenting their own theories about the election. I think they were wrong. I think theyve been proven wrong. But the question is, is it criminal to take that position . Thats why the first issue here is going to be a one second. Were just watching all the live things out here. So this is one of the president s former friends, attorneys alina hava, lets see what shes saying about whats happening. On march, 17th hunter accidentally admits that it was his laptop from hell. The next day d a alvin bragg. In dates. President trump june 8th. An fbi document is released showing that the ukrainians paid the biden crime family, millions and millions of dollars. The next day. Mary lago raid. And the barrel ago indictment. Last week. Hunter biden sweetheart plea deal. Fell through when the judge realized it had blanket immunity. The following day. A superseding indictment against donald trump. July, 31st. Devon archer. Goes to testify in front of the house. That was only after they failed to put him in jail. Prior to the fact. What happens the next day . The january 6th indictment that were here for today. This is not a coincidence. This is election interference at its finest against the leading candidate. Right now for president for either party. President trump. Is under siege in a way that we have never seen before. President trump and his legal team. And everyone on his team. Well continue to fight. Not for him. But for the American People ill take some questions. Thank you. I know the president has called this a witch hunt. You just laid out several examples of that any other thoughts from that the president has communicated to you in terms of why this is going on and why he calls it a witch hunt. I think of which hunt is really the way that anybody should describe this because its not something weve seen in our time. This is not even political. This is beyond that. Which hunt is when you relentlessly attack your opponent when you relentlessly attack the thing that you are most afraid of people are afraid of somebody that cannot be bought by washington. People are afraid of somebody who is independently wealthy and who has given up his good life to fight for this country, and that frightens a lot of politicians who are career politicians, unfortunately, because hell get back there, and i know hell be fighting for every one of us so that this doesnt happen to us about. Free speech, but the special counsel says trump could have disagreed with the results and talked about it. No crime there. The difference is what he did to try and switch the votes. So what is it that he did to try and switch the votes that you referred to by bringing cases by using the law in an appropriate manner. Unlike what were sitting here today, seeing this is not appropriate President Trump did as he said, go patriotic lee and peacefully and protest that is an american, right. That is why we are america and we are not a third world country. Although i will say that today i dont feel very much like we are in america. Yes go forward before or after the 2024 president ial election. I think that every court needs to look at this as a whole right. Its not about the january 6th case. Its about the fact that in the matter of a couple of months we have seen them try and tie up and me as an attorney. Ive never seen this tie up one individual who is a campaign whos running a campaign in a Campaign Running for office for president so that he is in court in depositions and distracted. So that he wont properly run for 2024. And frankly, its not going to work. Gonna argue that the election was stolen. I dont think that thats the argument that needs to be made. I think that anybody that believes that is misreading this. The truth is as an american, there were questions that he had regarding the election. Integrity weve seen documents come out. Weve seen documentaries come out showing that there were issues with the election. And he and frankly, fred bringing this i dont think jack smith really thought it through. Theyre only has to be proof that number one President Trump believed that this election was not completely honest and number two jack smith has opened himself up to a can of worms that we can now look at and really examine you believe that he is innocent and that this is all a setup. Why not bring it to trial as soon as possible before the election so that you can clear his name . Yes, i would love to do that. But theres something called discovery and when somebody wants to say that the 2020 election was perfect, and that President Trump has no right to object to it. Weve got to go show them all the facts and there was a lot of facts. The show, so everybody has their time and to say that donald trump should then be rushed and not be given the same fair proceeding that anybody elses. Its just frankly un american. Its not fair. Its not the way our system works. The lawyers who helped him try to overturn the election. Unnamed Co Conspirators in the indictment. Jenna ellis isnt why do you think that is . Im not going to speak to Co Conspirators or anybody else i represent President Trump more. There are a number of theres testimony, and theres a number of aids that have said that the president was made aware that he lost the election and yet continued to argue that it was stolen from him. How do you reconcile those two things . I think that everybody was made aware that he lost the election. But that doesnt mean that that was the only advice he was given is anybody understands what happens in the oval office. There are numerous amount of advisors and politicians and lawyers, not just one or two that are giving you advice and telling you what they believe is true, so he may not agree with mike pence. He may not agree with one of his lawyers, but that doesnt mean that there were another people advising him exactly the opposite. And the president has a right as everyone of us due to listen to several opinions and make their decision. Remember hearing Hillary Clinton and stacy abrams argue their elections were not right. I mean, how in the weaponization of the doj didnt happen then, of course not. But if your last name is trump, its very different, so Hillary Clinton could have a problem when she lost the election and we could have a complete liberal meltdown as we all saw, but when we have dignified disagreements, we take them to court. We say do things patriotic, lee and peacefully. He is to blame for things that he did not himself do and thats what were seeing. Frankly folks, this is not about that. This is about politics. This is about 2024 period. The and thank you. Thank you. Um, fine. Thank you. Okay elena, have a attorney for the former President Donald Trump answering some questions there. Lets bring our panel back in. Brett andy and jonathan are still with us. Um her argument is interesting. Andy about them, you know, she said theyre basically trying to gum up his entire election cycle by having him in court all the time. Um is that you know, does she make a valid point . And is there a valid argument that this should all go after the election . Well i think she not only makes a valid point, martha, i think its a finer point than maybe she realizes because this is not a Violent Crime case. You know, when you have crimes like that youre dealing with people who you need to get off the street and in custody, and once you have people in custody, theres a theres pressure to get through the case more quickly so that peoples rights arent violated. This isnt that case, so the governments presentation in all of these different cases, the Justice Departments as well as the ones i think were going to see from the prosecutor in atlanta and weve already seen from the prosecutor in manhattan. Um these cases would be exactly the same if they werent tried until, say, december of 2024. In other words, the government would not at all be prejudiced by putting this all off so that the election process which is constitutionally very important , could work its way through the system. The only reason to act with this haste to boom, boom boom. Get these cases in front of the not only juries, but the public on a political calendar is clearly political. And you know, i dont want to beat a dead horse. But you know, first of all, jack smith his existence as a special counsel is political. Theres no conflict of interest between the biden, Justice Department and donald trump. Theres a profound conflict of interest between the biden Justice Department and trying to investigate the bidens. But Merrick Garland wouldnt appoint a special counsel, which is what youre supposed to do when theres a conflict of interest yet appointed one for us, smith and why did he do that . He did it because biden and garland knew that they were going to bring, for example, the case thats thats an arraignment today and they didnt want to have their fingerprints on it. They knew that trumps pitch in the campaign was going to be that biden was using the Justice Department to persecute him, so they brought smith in as a political fiction that biden and garland dont have anything to do with the prosecution, even though smith exercises bidens power, and he answers stir garland. Yeah so this is political from the get go, and now theyre trying to push it to trial during the election campaign. Yeah i think thats one of the most interesting acts aspects of this whole thing, whether or not theyre gonna be able to pull that off. Doing this one . Because were always hearing. Oh, we cant do this, you know, too close to an election, whether its a judicial appointment discussion or whether its an investigation with Hillary Clinton and home and james comey and all of that, brett, you know its interesting to look at this as well. You know, theres sort of a political line of thought that the biden team would like to run against President Trump that he beat him last time. They feel that he is the person who can beat him again. Lot of water under the bridge since then, and now his numbers are going up based on this. Relentless um, whether you think its accurate or not. It is a relentless pace of prosecution. Do you think that changes their feelings about it . Thats a good question. I think that they still would like to run at the end of the day against the former president. I think they feel President Biden is best position there, and there are a lot of variables about the others, but he is strong not only in the gop primary but increasingly strong in the general election that New York Times sienna poll just out this week had it dead tied and other polls are tracking that. I just want to go back to that News Conference really quickly. You heard jonathan swan. I think, asking that question about who was named at war believed be named as Co Conspirators. Jenna ellis, a learner, a lawyer who worked on this with former President Trump was not also not in this indictment is former chief of staff mark meadows, and there is a belief that there is, you know, cooperation that is going on here. Jared kushner is not mentioned in this indictment. And the question is, is that is there another shoe to drop here . And is this it . Could there be another superseding indictment like we saw in the documents case that comes out after that . We dont know, but what theyre trying to focus on is t denial of civil rights of votes based on an 18 70 law. Passed under ulysses s. Grant great point, jonathan. You know when, when you look at the connection that needs to be made here, and you know, brett raises a good point about who else might have material to bring into this. Weve only seen the indictment. We havent seen the full case and perhaps some of those people are involved, but the link that has to be drawn on this criminal indictment is between, you know, saying that you, uh dont believe the outcome of the election and then linking that to the action of conspiracy. So you you have to link it and we dont have an incitement charge in here. We dont have a seditious conspiracy charge in here that you know with what we saw from the oath keepers, and all of that was orchestrated from trump or anyone at the white house. That link has not been made in this indictment. Thats right. Thats the most glaring omission is that if you recall the second impeachment was based on the argument of various democrats like adam schiff and others, they it was a established that the president was guilty of incitement of seditious conspiracy and these other crimes. Theyre not in this you you would be, you would think they were from what smith said in his press conference. He talked as if trump was being indicted for the attack on the capital. Hes not hes being indicted for spreading lies. Thats what the indictment says over and over again, and they insist that he knew they were lies now. Note the Justice Department says that he is constitutionally protected and making false statements. But not if he didnt think that they were true. Well that gets back to brett statement. Do they have someone like mark meadows or someone else . Whos going to say you know what he told me . They had. This was all one big scam. Um, you know trump from all the accounts seem to be on message consistently that and many people believe that he does believe this. But the question for i think the courts, particularly Appellate Courts is going to be. Is this what we want to have in the criminal code . Do we want the federal government . To be able to arrest politicians and say, yeah, you can say false things , but not when you know theyre false and you should have listened to us. Thats a dangerous road to go down. And i think that when you also look at what was raised earlier about the nature of these counts, i think that that i 19th century law involving the denial of voting rights. Is very sketchy in terms of its legal use here, but they still have to face the First Amendment questions. I think there are a lot of judges are going to be highly skeptical about this. This indictment. Keep in mind, martha, if you believe that the president may have believed this all along, like many people have said he does. This entire case collapses now this is why, by the way, im not so sure trump wouldnt have invited this case like heres a lot to worry about in florida. But this case , maybe just ready for order for trump. I think a lot of americans if you this as they did the new york case that smith may have jumped the shark , he may have left a lot of the public behind and, you know, i think youre going to see that play out in the coming days. You know, just to put a fine point on it. You. But if you can prove that he new. Then he lost the election. Then youre creating content correct intent to deceive and that and thats a conspiracy. I guess its pretty. Its pretty tough. Yeah yeah, i mean, theres two breaking linchpins here first. In the alvarez case, the Supreme Court dealt with a politician who knowingly lied and the courts still said that that was protected. But more importantly you then, if the linchpin to these later steps third parties taking steps to create a second set of electors and whether he is responsible for those actions, thats why this is really a attenuated. My view and each of these linchpins has got ahold. For smith to be able to bring this to a jury. Okay jonathan. Thank you very much. Great to have you with us. Lets bring back in neil cavuto, anchor of your world. Dana perino, former White House Press secretary, americas newsroom co anchor co host of the five and shannon bream, Fox News Sunday anchor and chief legal correspondent. Great to have all of you with us. I just want to start by giving a little bit of color from whats going on in the courthouse. This is coming to us from jake gibson, our reporter on the ground there, producer on the ground there, so basically what we understand that he he is going to that the former president will gaggle on the tarmac. At d. C a, which is Reagan National airport. Once the motorcade arrives there, so were learning that the statement that hes going to make will be right after this when we watched the motorcade going well, obviously cover all of that. Theyre in the media room right now they can see the courtroom. Special counsel jack smith has entered the courtroom and is sitting down in the front row. Former President Trump has not entered the courtroom yet. Um so were keeping close eye on that molly gaston special counsels team sitting at the prosecutors table as well, and sources familiar with fox digital tell say that the former president will plead not guilty to all counts. No big surprise there, neil. Your thoughts on where we are at 3 50 eastern time today. You know, im no lawyer, but i have watched enough episodes of law and order to i think qualify. One thing i noticed is fascinating. Martha is this indictment is really just charging donald trump. Its just him just him. Ah they talk about these six Co Conspirators, but theyre not. Part of this process today, which gets back to this notion that maybe this is the case that jack smith wants or wants to have the best chance of expediting getting it moving quickly. Unlike the mar a lago case of the documents, there are a lot of National Security and other issues that could rightly delay key portions, if not push it well into the year after next, let alone next year, but with this is keeping it simple, keeping it focused on him, keeping it focused on his motives. Keep it focused on where he was coming from, or whether he knew in his heart of hearts that this challenge of the election was not backed up by the facts that this was and is meant to be expected. You have a judge involved in this case, and obama pointing judge who has a record of moving with great alacrity and also severity. She has meted out big punishments for of those who stormed the capital on january 6th. In fact, in nine of those cases exceeding the jail time the prosecutors are recommending. So i put all that together in my legal head born of law and order episodes to think. Ah i know the real lawyers here saying this guy is beyond beyond beyond, but but im just thinking that this is the emphasis here. Let me clear the decks to get this clearly done quickly. Alright, lets go to the lawyer, shannon, what do you think . Yeah, this case is much more streamlined than the mara lago case with the documents. Weve talked about this a little bit. That one is going to be very involved because there will be all kinds of challenges to the classified documents getting things vetted. What can jurors see the pretrial motions feel like theyll take longer with that . Neil rightly points out. This judge is probably not going to have a lot of tolerance for a lot of pretrial motions that if she feels theyre strictly about delaying one of the things youve got to imagine President Trumps team is going to ask for a change of venue. Dana and i know living many years in washington, d. C. It is not trump country. It is a place that voted 92 in the 2020 election for President Biden. His teams going to argue he cant get an un politically biased jury there. Thats going to be one of the things that will potentially try to slow down this trial for them, but they know theyre going into hostile territory with this particular case, but its much smaller, much more streamlined than that mara lago case so it does have a chance of going earlier. But there are so much that happens before a huge federal case. Youve already heard President Trumps attorney, john morrow, out there, loro saying. It took them years to put together this case. As dana pointed out, it doesnt seem to have a whole lot of stuff we didnt know about before. But he says, you know, we need a lot of time to put together our defense to. You know, dina, im thinking back to prior elections, and im thinking about some of the things that Hillary Clinton said about President Trump. You know, he knows hes an illegitimate president. She said. The argument was that the russians had interfered in social media that they had been able to sort of infiltrate peoples thought process in a lot of ways and a lot of other tangents to the case that they were making you think of stacey abrams, losing the governors race in georgia took her. I think over a year at least over a year to concede that she had lost that race to brian camp, she said that they were suppressing the vote despite the fact that more people voted than had voted in prior elections, so i guess some people look at the situation patients and say whats the difference under this standard would they have been charged as well . Would the republican candidate for governor of arizona in 2020 to be charged right now . Um that is to me good question, and thats why this i do. But i guess i hope that there is more legal clarity about what theyre doing. One thing thats interesting is we talk about the venue, whether it shouldnt be in dc or would he be able to maybe take it to West Virginia as his lawyer, john loro has suggested . I doubt theyre going to allow that, but its an interesting thing to think about it should they . But there is a court where the jury is already seated. And that is the court of Public Opinion. And before i went to the white house i spent about a year as a spokesperson at the department of justice, and i am pretty amazed. That theyre going to bring a case against the former president of the United States and lose, in my opinion, lose every news cycle from that moment. What has happened today you had President Trump leading the news. Once again. You have eight other candidates wanting to run against him for the primary for the republican nomination. They cant get on air because why were all going to talk about this because this is so unprecedented. Also what does he do . He puts out a true social post, he says. I am going up there. Im going to get arrested for you pointed this out martha, and that resonates with his voters, of which they are so durable. His lead is there and it is strong and the rest of the candidates are thinking. What can i possibly do so the court of Public Opinion as well . Out there and then you have his lawyer, elena haba, whos willing to take several questions from the press. You dont have the Justice Department doing that. You dont have cameras in the courtroom today, where jack smith could answer some questions. They are allowing the trump team to absolutely dominate the news cycle, even if the other media isnt covering this on the network news. Thats not where the majority of people are getting their news anymore. Theyre getting it online on their phones. Hopefully theyre getting it here, but theyre getting a podcast. But President Trump is giving press something to at least talk about and to question the Justice Department, so i dont i hate it when people lose news cycles if theyre supposed to win them, and i just look at this and think professionally. Its a little bit shocking to me that the Justice Department is leaving so much on the ground. Its a great point. Neil politically, youve interviewed a lot of these candidates. Weve all spoken to them and will be speaking to them more as we move forward, but they really cannot get any oxygen. They cant break through this news cycle. And i would imagine that the former president doesnt love the fingerprinting part of this, but the rest of it, he no doubt. Is very shrewd about understanding the impact and the platform that he has. Sucking all the oxygen out of the room. But you know, it is interesting here. If you look at all these indictments put together the three now were looking at 78 different charges. Uh you know, some of those carry substantial jail time if found guilty on them, of course, if you put them all together at 650. Years behind prison. But my only point in mentioning that is a conviction on anything could change the game here. I know there was a reuters poll not too long ago. I dont know what polls were able to quote and also, i apologize, but i think the sentiment expressed there is that such a development of conviction for the former president would turn off a lot of those same Republican Voters who are rallying them, not all of them. I think it was close to half that might change their sentiment now, and thats the irony of you know a pending trial. Lets say if we get into march or april or may of next year, by which time you could have conceivably given his lead in the polls right now, donald trump acquiring all the delegates he needs to be the republican president ial nominee. Now that is something we cant fathom. But again, i think given all these counts, the possibility of going 78 and oh, and swapping them down. Thats a tough thats a tough road to hoe. So that is something that could change everything. The improving poll numbers all of that. If a conviction comes toward you could still serve and all of that there are a lot of people that might say no, no, no. This is a bridge too far. You know, i feel shannon. I feel like ive heard that its going to be a bridge too far with the 45th president , going all the way back to the access hollywood tape, you know, before he was elected the first time i think that hes politically just um different and appeals to people whose voters in a in a different way and the rules are different when it comes to this president as you look at history and what you would have expected along the way, but people had said recently, while if theres more than this first indictment, well, that would might be the deal breaker. And if theres another one well, here we are. And were not seeing any change. But do you think neil is right . I mean, would it conviction, uh, sit differently with with American Voters or not, it might, but it might that base that is for him. Be even more emboldened to say, you know, improve like we got to vote. This guy in. Weve got to save him because hes been convicted. Remember if federal charges he could conceivably pardon himself if convicted and became president. Weve got state charges. Hes got to deal with two and now were standing by any day forward out of georgia and the special grand jury there. That would be a whole new headache for this team. On an already very full plate. The drama is continuous quick thought, dana before we toss over to neil. Well i think that one of as i mentioned the news cycle there, i think the trump teams winning that news cycle today and i expect that to continue into tonight. All right, we will see dana. Thank you very much, shannon. Great to see you will see dana later at five oclock. Well see shannon on sunday and i think later here as well, and now our live coverage continues as neil takes over his our high, neil. All right. Thank you very much. Martha. Dont go too far because i have a lot of questions. To ask you and bread and andy and john, you in a little bit, but as you just indicated here, were waiting to see how this all sorts out today the former president of uned