And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Please welcome the head of the l. A. Times. Good to see you, my friend. Im glad youre here. Lets start with what happened last week, for the democrats, these big wins and whether or not it is your assessment that the democrats have found their way. Im not sure they found their way. They need to find their wayo sort of expand their appeal. They won, they won big in the governors race. Thats more than Terry Mcauliffe won last time. Its a significant win. It shows the Democratic Base is turning out. I would be careful from extrapolating, and saying, oh, yeah, the democrats are going to take over the house. Immediately its going to help in terms of candidate improvement and the spirit of the party. I think the Democratic Party still has to come up with some kind of message to appeal to the voters they lost in the trump election. Some kind of working class message. Theyre not there yet, they need to do better on recruiting candidates. Theres not a lot of strong candidates solely for president. Its like chicken soup. Its not a bad thing, but they have a ways to go. On the issue of their message, particularly for working class voters, why do you think that is so difficult for them to do. And i say to do and not to figure out, its already been figured out. This is the way you need to connect with the voters on a working class message. If Everybody Knows that, why cant they figure that out . I think the problem is, they dont have the candidate that can deliver the message well. Also, the Democratic Party, have you to navigate other things. Class warfare versus not class warfa warfare. A lot of that stuff is very important to democratic voters, maybe not smuch for the voters you have to reach out for. Thats the complication for them. Were ithe part of the cycle where candidates are figuring out what to say. They have time to figure this out. These two things are not disconneed which is so say the message and the messenger . Yeah, were very connected. The messenger who understood what the message was. The candidates ive covered over the years. Obama was great, but clinton was probably best at that. Appealing to a broad swath of voters. Some people would say the Democratic Party is still paying for that with all due respect to my friend i do think hes a friend of mine, bill clinton. Weve had these conversations in private and public to some degree. The Democratic Party to my mind is paying a price now for what clinton did those years ago moving the party to the certainer, trying to co opt the republican agenda on some points. Theres some who argue the party is still paying a heavy price for what clinton did that may have worked then, theyre reaping the whirlwind. I remember at the time. There was a lot of push back, it helped him get elected president. And helped him govern. I agwith you 100 . The party is paying a price on it now. We can argue about nafta and trade barriers forever. I think donald trump is one of the reasons the republicans got hurt. I think the party is paying a price for that now. On the persons who say hes best to bring this message. He is the messenger who can deliver the message hes not quite said it that way. Theres speculation joe biden will run in 2020. He hasnt ruled out running in 2020. He may have been the guy in the last round to take that message of working class to the people that needed to hear it. What do you think of joe bidens potential in 2020 . I think. Ive watched him and covered him for a long time. I do think if he had gotten the nomination in 2016 he would have had a better chance of winning. We can define how Hillary Clinton lost, but a better chance of him winning. Hes going to be 77 years old in 2020. Thats a practical issue, obstacle. And obstacle for voters who are thinking, hes a little too old for that. You know the way people tend to go back and forth. Trump is what, 69 . Hes 72 now. That is true, theyll probably be more likely to vote someone whos younger not a businessman, more energetic. Were like crazy time, all the rules that have guided politics for all the years ive done it. A lot of them have been thrown out the window. Ive always learned to keep an eye on history, in terms of understanding politics, but dont get locked in by it, what happened four years ago or eight years ago is not going to happen again. When you say the democrats have to put the right person out. But what about kamala harris. And cory booker. And yet to your point there are people that believe they have not put their finger on the right person the question is, is that a pipeline issue . Typically when you hear that nobodys ready, whether its the nfl complaining why arent there more black coaches. The answer always ems to be a pipeline issue. Is it a pipeline issue . I do think its a pipeline issue. And we can figure out who to blame for it. Maybe eventually, but shes a first term senator. Im doing a piece on the person think withing about running for mayor. Theres younger, less experienced candidates, and these older people like joe biden, Hillary Clinton theres no one in between ready to run. What that means is that level of what democrats are willing to consider has been lowered. I think its a wider net, you want qualifications for a president ial candidate, its been changed. So its forcing therefore, im not as if we were havg this conversation four years ago, i would say kamala harris, carl boucetti. I think trump is extremely vulnerable. Its a nomination you want to have. Its not a typical reelection for democrats versus republicans, its a nomination you want. And Deval Patrick is still out there too. Yeah, yeah. That said, let me switch from the democrats to mr. Trump specifically. And then we go to the republicans more broadly. What do you make of the fact that at the endf the asia trip hes been pretty well behaved visavis twitter. And he goes off again at the end. He calls kim jongun short and fat. He seemed to go on this twitter tirade, which took ay from the good marks he had gotten for the balance of the trip. Zbh i feel like this happens again and again. Traditional mesh youves he was doing well. And then he goes off the rails. I think that hes only going to go along for so long playing the traditional role and then hes going to pop off. The thing about calling him short and fat, that was pretty remarkable, very to say. When i picked up my phone in the morning and saw that, i cant say i was surprised, but not stunned, you know what i mean . Okay, that kind of makes sense, it happens against and again. The people that keep talking about President Trump is President Trump. I dont think hes going to change. And people who keep talking about him hoping he becomes more president ial, hes not. Do i think it was disruptive politically . I dont think it washenful. There are many ways to define remarkable in the sentence that you use dused, im going to let say what was remarkable about the short and fat comment . Remarkably funny, dangerous. No, its remarkably a presiden would not say that about another foreign leader. I dont think yes, really unusual behavior for a president or for most people i think its remarkable as well. I think its remarkably dangerous in the sense that youre working with a guy or dealing with a guy whos already a little cuckoo, and you continue to poke at this guy. Its adolescent. Its punitive and pejorative. Youre dealing with a guy were already afraid of anyway. I dont think h has i dont think theres some strategy here the president has in doing that. I dont think hes sitting there thinking if i say this, well get him to do that, no, i think hes really one thing that people, opponents of trump have learned to do, whether its Chuck Schumer or putin, is get under the president skin. Thats what happened here, he got under the president s skin and he popped off. Speaking of putin, what do you make of that the news that trump just smed to accept putin says i didnt do it, trump says, good enough for me, basically. I dont want to get into the president s head, its not my thing. He seems to want to d anything he can to move on, he seems to be worried that the legitimacy of the election is under assault. I would you know, if i was him, i think what what i would do is say, this is a matter of real concern. We all agree my election is valid, whatever. Hes not going to ae to move on. Because now theres a Republican Democratic consensus to some extent we have to deal with a threat to democracy. Its going to be one in 2018 and 2020. Let me go to the republicans more broadly. I think the first way in, to look at how remarkably this race in alama has changed. Trump is down there weeks ago campaigning for Luther Strange who loses. Roy moore wins. It is alabama, even with all the baggage in his background. Roy moore is the hands on favorite to win this thing. I asked him, how are you going to overcome the perception that this seat is roy moores to lose. Fast forward a few weeks, and i dont know what to make of this race in alabama now . Whats your . I mean, in a formal race, youd think the fwakt that hes been accused of sexual relations with a 14yearold would be disqualifying. I think today senator mcconnell called for him to step aside. I think were going to see, it sounds like theres more allegations coming out. He is clearly i dont know if he can hang in there. Hes certainly planning to and run against the washington establishment, the Washington Post which broke the story. You know, thats not from a pure political point of view, thats not a krazdy strategy. You do get the sense that pressure is building. Hes not a conventional politician. He stays in there, and we were having this conversation on december 11th or 12th, would not be shocked if he won, not at all. I think youre right, it is a good strategy always in that situation. In this situation, hes no different than trump. Hes running against the establishment. I dont think his voters are going to. Hes saying this is the Washington Post, and the washington establishment out to get me. Thats a winning message for his voters. Therefore, they dont believe what theyre hearing. These things tend to happen in waves. Maybe there will be more examples at some point there may be a breaking point where people go, oh, well, maybe this is true. Some democrats are thinking they have a good shot at that race. I think the jury is definitely on that. Since you mentioned the Washington Post and harvey weinstn, you mentioned the post breaking the roy moore story. The New York Times has had a few news breaks itself of late. Let me ask a few questions about that. Whats it like. Let me get inside the new york time times if i can. What is it like for the times when youre breaking stories, youre literally changing the conversation, in this country. Whats it like on the inside of the times . I feel that journalism in general right now, and i would include trump coverage of trump, and the times and the post is on a real roll. The competition between the two blairs is really good. The important story, it changes the way the wld is, i think thats whats going on with the weinstein story about youre there to do good things. It sounds hypepy, but youre there to do good things for society and expose wrongdoing. The most important thing, i think weve really changed the conversation. Whats appropriate, whats not. Youre seeing all these people come down, its a big moment here i think its good for the paper, generally i work there, i love the place, i want it to succeed, i think all this stuff, the paper is going through a really good period now. Juxta pose for me the feeling you just described of this feeling of being on top of your game because of whats happening over the last few weeks. Juxta pose that feeling for me with how you were feeling on the inside of the paper months ago, when trump seemed to be getting the better of all the media by calling you the fake news. He was certainly having his say. It seems that has turned a little bit . I think people were caught off guard. Its not usual for a president to attack a newspaper the way he was attacking us. Everyone was really just focussed on pushing ahead, doing stories. Making sure they were as accurate as possible and fair as possible. Ive been at the paper during bad periods, the disputed reporting of jason blair and all that. Yeah, yeah. That was the opposite of this. People were feeling down and scared, worried about where we were going. I think people are feeling really good right now. Of course, that will change at some point. How do you think the media hats changed, grown, i dont want to put words in your mouth, in the way its covered President Trump. Were vastly approaching the oneyear anniversary of the inauguration. How has the media found its legs in how to cover this guy over the last year. Its been difficult, because i dont think were used to cover somebody who says stuff thats not true. This is one of the classic examples youve seen the other papers struggle with. If the president says something is not true, do you call it a lie . The line that i think were walking is to try to call the president when hes saying something thats not true, fact check him and give readers perspective, without appearing were his adversary. And i think trumps strategy here if he has one, is to demonize the press, therefore, delegitimize the press and make it his adversary. The trickier to write these honest pieces that are still fair, that dont me it sound as if were the loyal opposition, which were not. Theres been a real change in the way the press covers the president , the wous because of this campaign. Its never been the press as you know, the press always ends up fighting with president s. Its never been anything quite like this. I dont know if this is a permanent change or not. This is challenging and hard. The flip side of being a paper like the times or the Washington Post on these stories. The flip side of being there to expose wrongdoing is that you get seen as having a vendetta. Right. Theres a long list of people wh would say the New York Times has had a vendetta against him. There are a number of folks who have been on the list who pointed the finger at the times and says the times has a vendetta against me or the post. How do you balance that . How do you cover or uncover the wrongdoing and not get to the point of roy moore now, hes accusing the media of having a vendetta against him. Its that liberal media bias in the establishment that we hear from time to time. I think what you need to do is listen to it, think about it and make sure theyre not right. Generally when they say stuff like that, roy moore is trying to stop the post and everyone else from digging and finding out more examples. I think that was right with trump too. You need to listen, and i think you need to play devils advocate, are we going too far, are we piling on . I think more often than not, you have to keep pushing ahead, its hard, you have people like jodi theyre getting a lot of heat right now. Its hard, youre absolutely right about it, thats the balance you have to deal with every day. Is it your sense or the course of your career, that its getting hard er or easier to cover politics . I say harder because the obfuscation is everywhere. There are so many tools right now to get information. Your sense of what its like to cover politics these days. National politics. I think in many ways, its harder, no one has accepted it as automatically true. An increase in cynicism . Or disbelief. People have a negative view of the media. It used to be youd have voices out there. Who were looked at a people who would write the truth. And that doesnt really exist any more. Theres a lot of people and voices covering and talking about politics now. Which in some ways is great, and in some ways its not great, its harder to figure out whats going on. Its hard to cut through and do the definitive account of whats going on. Part of that is, campaigns are less willing to cooperate. They have other ways. I remember noticing this they found other ways as they should have to get the message out. Obama was the master of that. Especially when it came to his black supporters. Yeah, and i remember the first time i remember seeing him do that, i dont remr the exact episode, i remember waking up seeing something they were attacking a poll in the New York Times. I was like, what is thats the way the world works. The way its easier is to sort of nittygritty of reporting. Its easier to fact check stuff, its easier toook at a television commercial, right . It used to be, you had to go over and send a messenger to get a videotape. Now, its click, click. That stuff is easier, it used to be if you wanted to call a campaign manager, you had to go through their assistants. That stuff is easier. Its more chaotic now, but it is what it is. Facebook is taking over the way people see the news. Its something you have to work around. Its a much different environment than when i started. It has pluses and minuses. You work with it, and work around it, its a different kind of challenge. Youre doing it. Adam, good to have you on the program, always appreciate hearing your insits on a variety of subject matters. Thats other show tonight. Thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith. For more information on todays show visit tavis smiley at pbs. Org. Join me next time for a conversation with Smokey Robinson about his first solo christmas album, thats next time, well see you then. And by contributions to your pbs by viewers like you. Thank you. Today on americas test kitchen bridget bakes the ultimate chocolate caramel layer cake, adam reviews ice cream scoops in the equipment corner, and gadget guru lisa reviews the latest kitchen gadgets. Right here, on americas test kitchen. Americas test kitchen is brought to you by dcs. Dcs manufacturers of professionally styled indoor and outdoor kitchen equipment