While you feel that rage, dont be consumed by it. His visit came after a deadly explosion at a gaza hospital. The u. S. And independent experts show the rocket was a misfire by a jihad militant within gaza, but the arab world blames israel fuelling protests across the middle east. The way things are unfolds in the region right now, this cannot be allowed any longer. Dr. Dr. Jonathasch schanzer on books about gaza. He is focused on this question. Was this 10 7 slaughter a pre preamble to the war that iran planned . As more than 200 hostages remain in gaza. A ground war intensify. What does dr. Jonathan schanzer say now . Firing line with Margaret Hoover is made possible in part by robert granieri, vanessa and henry cornell, the fairweather foundation, the tepper foundation, the asness family foundation, the mckenna family foundation, charles r. Schwab. And by the rosalind p. Walter foundation and damon button. Corporate funding is provided by stephens inc. Dr. Jonathan schanzer, welcome to firing line. Thank you. After the october 7th attack, Prime Minister netanyahu swiftly vowed to eliminate troops. We have seen him gear up on the dopple border for weeks. I think there are a number of things that israel is balancing right now. Number one, the israelis did not want to launch an invasion before President Biden arrived. At the same time, we are aware of the diplomatic channel that is conducted out of qatar. The optics of this are somewhat crazy. Qataris are, themselves, sponsors of hamas. They are right now acted as a trusted american ally, if you will, to try to help negotiate the release of the hostages. I have my doubts about the qataris intentions. It appears israel and u. Are allowing for the channel to play out. That may have something to do with the delay. Finally, there has been some concern expressed by israelis within the security establishment that a ground war is not a simple as one might think. There are, as i heard it, hundreds of kilometers of underground tunnels. Some have been unexplored by the israelis. They dont have the intelligence needed to conduct a war underground. It could be close quarter combat. One gets the sense israelis are gathering what they can with intelligence before they go in and one other factor and that is that there is the potential right now for a multifront conflict. You have to remember that the regime in iran has multiple proxies it had funded over the years. Groups like hezbollah and jihad and hamas and others. There is a concern that should israel enter into the gaza strip, that other fronts could erupt. These are all, i think, weighing heavily on the mind of Benjamin Netanyahu who does not like to take significant risks not in the military realm. He is fearful of quagmires and that also may be part of what has prompted him to delay. Lets go back to the hostages. You have suggested serious concern with the ability of the taris to be effective as hostage negotiators. Is there a better way . You know, thats a good question. There is something sort of orweliean about all this for the qataris have been playing arsonists and fire fighter in the conflict. You cannot be a sponsor of hamas and also offer your good offeics and expect to be respected in this way. They seek to legitimize hamas. That has been the qatari way. It may not be the moment to negotiate with the terrorist group given the slaughter it perpetrated. And yet where does that leave the hostages . Look, there are 203 of them by last count. The israelis are obviously sick to their stomachs about the prospect of what it would take to get them out. What we hear is they are being held underground in a military facility that has been created by a hamas shadow unit tasked with monitoring their health and well being, whi is, of course, a relative term here. I think that at some point and i dont know when that point comes, but israelis will come to the conclusion that the negotiations have reached a point of diminishing returns and that action needs to be taken regardss of the hostages. In other words, there is no way israel can fight a war in the gaza strip, urban warfare, brutal fighting, fight with one hand tied behind their backs. There may come a time when the israelis term the well being of 9. 9 million other people must override the concern and heartbreak associated with these kidnapped israelis. What about the american hostages . That is also part of the constraint. I do not envy Benjamin Netanyahu or his military chief of staff. These guys, i think, have gutwrenching decisions before them. You wrote in the book, israel is a far superior military power, there is no threat to the hamas group . I dont know if it is true now. When you hear the rhetoric of the israelis which is if hamas can perpetrate a slaughter of 1,400 people, that there is no way that israel can live next to this group any longer. The israelis made it clear that there is no other solution other than a military one and this is what they appear to be preparing for. There has been a paradigm shift . 100 . Theres no other way to look at it. Up until two weeks ago, the israelis military establishment looked at hamas as a tactical threat and annoyance that is manageable. It is no longer manageab. I heard one former israeli official say the moment they killed that many people was the moment they lost the right to exist. Very stark language. President biden said he spoke with Prime Minister netanyahu about alternatives to a ground operation. What are the alternatives . There are lots of options that israel has in terms of direct confrontation, but also war warfare and cyber warfare. All of these things are going to be on the table. Maybe they are each on the table now. We just have not yet seen the first steps taken in this war other than the aerial bombardment of gaza which has been going almost from day one. Do you believe iran is helping hamas preparing for the Ground Invasion of gaza . 100 . How . There is no question that iran knew that hostage taking and a slaughter of the scale witnessed on october 7th, theres no question that iran knew this would solicit a significant response. Iran has a strategy of arming and training all of these proxy groups for a war of the nature that we might be seeing right now unfold before our eyes. A multifront conflict. This has always been israels nightmare scenario in my view. Of course, there is a sad irony here which is taking place on the 50th anniversary of the last multifront conflict. Referring to the 1973 yom kippur war. President biden was in israel this week and you said that President Bidens aim was to do exactly what you just referenced to prevent a multifront conflict with iran. How did he do . Well, we dont know yet. You know, whether the u. S. Has effectively deterred iran r remains to be seen. The think the president has taken the right steps. He has deployed the military assets that are designed to stare down the Iranian Regime and staredown hezbollah. He arrived in israel and he embraced the israelis public. He voiced support for the Israeli Military and the conflict expected to come. The strategy is to isolate gaza from all of the other action that could occur. In other words, deter iran and convince it could suffer consequences by entering the ba battle. Do the same with hezbollah. If this works the way that i think the israelis want it to and maybe the americans as well, it would be a situation where the iranian access looks on somewhat helplessly while israel, with assistance from the u. S. And some way or another, removes one of irans chess pieces from the board. In other words, they have nothing they can do but watch as israel destroys hamas and frees up one of its borders from the iranbacked threat. This would be, i think, the soft landing that the israelis are looking for. Whether it is an easy battle the is another story entirely, but the last thing israel wants, i think, is that multifront war. That said, i think the israelis made it clear if they need to fight a twofront battle , they will and it will be tough. You have been critical of the Biden Administration for its past appeasement of iran. In your estimation, does iran want a multifront war with israel . Look, thats the big question. Was this 10 7 slaughter, was that a preamble to the war that iran planned . In other words, did they see this as a moment that they were going to try to galvanize the muslim world and try to draw in as many actors as possible and set the region on fire . There cld be a number of reasons for wanting to do that. There is, of course, the obvious longstanding goal of the regime that it seeks to destroy israel and threatened to do so repeatedly. There is the qstion of whether they might use this opportunity while everyones eyes are on israel and attacks taking place there to make a dash for a Nuclear Weapon which is an objective of the regime. There is perhaps another motivation which is to derail the normalization process that we have watched unfold in the middle east since 2020 with the signing of the abraham accords. Right before the war broke out, there were multiple reports that the saudis and israelis were drawing closer to a normalization deal. All of that has been derailed by iran. To get to your question of the cr critique of the Biden Administration, there is an ongoing effort by the Biden Administration to separate out the iran malign activity and terrorism from the nuclear track. The administration, just as the Obama Administration did before, has been offering all manner of financial inducements to the regime to try to convince it stop its Nuclear Advances and to, you know, at minimum, hold steady. What that amounted to in my view is appeasement and the financing of the terrorist state. I do hope that in light of all ofhis, and in light of the president s embrace of the israelis and recognition of irans hand behind all this, maybe it is time for policy review that the way in which democrats in particular have approached the iran challenge and maybe it is time to revisit some assumptions. I believe it has ended in failure and got to think that the Biden Administration officials are starting to come to that realization as well. Iran has enough highly e enriched uranium to build several nuclear bombs. How does iran factor . The queen, the most powerful piece on the board is an iranian north Nuclear Weapon. It is an insurance policy or umbrella for the iranians to continue in this activity. The sponsorship of terrorist activities that destabize the region and harm american interests and allies sdp. I want to ask about the explosions at the hospital in gaza. Palestinian militants are responsible for the blast this week, not israel. Israel released audio between members of Islamic Jihad and realizing their rocket hit the hospital. They released video which is said to show the misfire. How conclusive are these findings in your estimation . From what i can tell and i am not a ballistics expert, but from what i can tell, there is wide agreement across the Israeli Military establishment. It is not just for pr purposes. Israelis claimed responsibilities for mistakes it made on the battlefield. We have seen in the past that Islamic Jihad has misfired its rockets. In the aftermath of the hospital explosion, there were antiisraeli demonstrations in the middle east. The king of jordan canceled a summit with President Biden and other arab leaders. To what extent, jonathan, is the arab world able to consider the evidence that the blast wasnt israels fault . There is no ccountability here. None. The evidence doesnt matter . Clearly. The israelis provided evidence within a short amount of time and we saw protests unfolding in lebanon and turkey. I was making comments about the arab streit as it is called. I believe in general, it has enabled hamas. It has given a green light for hamas to carry out these attacks against israel. The palpable hatred we see in the angry mobs is what ultimately comes through above all else and the facts really dont matter to most of these people. Jonathan, you warn there is a bigger hospital in gaza city home to hamass command center. That is anevitable target . We know the ship in gaza city is the command center of hamas. It several stories below ground. It is where the leadership operates. It is the ultimate human shield. It is the ultimate war crime. I mean, hamas deliberately built this facility with that in mind with the assssumption israel cod never bomb the largest hospital in the gaza strip. Every means of decapitating the leadership will be used. One has to imagine there will be a lot of discussion at some point about the hospital and what lies beneath it. There is ongoing confusion about border crossings and when they will be open to those flees gaza. Why does it appear as though egypt is reluctant to open its borders and why are here arab countries refusing to allow refugees . Egyptians have their own challenges and a bad economy. They dont want a refugee problem. They dont want the humanitarian corridor. There should be a meeting of the arabs or the u. N. That pushes for the berefugees. Qataris and turks and another jurisdiction with hamas support. Why we are not holding these countries to account right now and forcing them and really putting pressure on them to take accountability for the crisis that they have created and if the concern is for loss of life and concern is for trying to prevent catastrophic events from be he befalling this community and to facilitate their return without hamas in the gaza strip. This, in my view, is the clear objective of what is going on here. The arab wld is really voicing their opposition to this rather logical response to what was, i think by all accounts, one of the most horrific acts of terrorism witnessed in decades. Humanitarian aid has been an m happening at the rafah crossing with egypt now. A why is getting food and water with and fuel to the civilians who need it so complicated . Well, it is complicated for a number of reasons. One, the israelis have said in the same breath they dont want to allow anything to go in so long as as of right now, there are 203 israeli hostages held by hamas in the gaza strip. The israelis say that is their fair trade. Hamas is not interested in this. There is ongoing debate about exactly how this will unfold. Then there is the question of when assistance comes through, you know, is it actually humanitarian aid or are there dual use items hamas can use to buttress its military capabilities . For them, this is a high stakes proposition allowing for truck loads of material to go into the gaza strip right now during a hot war where theres probably a better than average chance that people have tried to insert military material or dual use material into these trucks. Israelis are wary and they are trying to use this as leverage right now to get the release of the hostages that were taken on october 7th. You have been warning for days that skirmishes at the northern border indicate hezbollah is pushing the region in a wider war. We have seen reports of slashes at the Syrian Border and violence in the west bank. What does the u. S. And its allies need to do next in deterrence efforts . Look, the deterrence process is already under way or the attempts to deter. Bidens meeting with the Israeli Cabinet and his warning to iran and hezbollah, you know, dont even try it. All of these things, i think, are the right steps toward deterring other fronts from opening potentially. Israel would like the ability to fight in gaza without having multiple other fronts erupt and the u. S. Appears to be actively trying to steer things toward that outcome. The brits as well. The ench, the germans, but it is complex. There are a lot of moving parts and the real big question is will iran stand pat . A month after the surprise attack on israel in 1973, william f. Buckley jr. And sat down and agreed that the United States was a client ally at that time. Cannot afford to purchsue wi the basic objectives of the United States. The basic objectives of the United States are now to gain a foothold in the arab world and to push the russians out of the middle east, at least diminish their influence, in order to prevent the russians from c controlling the middle east in terms of oil. We are no longer in the cold war with biden in israel, putin visited china. What is our connection in the United States between our priority of supporting israel and our priority of supporting ukraine . It is a great question. As i view it, there are three embattled American Democratic allies right now that are under threat. Israel, ukraine and taiwan. There are three aggressors that are actively trying to challenge the u. S. Led world order. They are, of course, iran, russia and china. The u. S. Led world order has been incredibly beneficial to the world. Access to technology and food and medicine and it is now being challenged and increasingly so. This attack on israel is part of that picture. The attack on ukraine is part of that picture. You see our three primary adversaries continue to cooperate with one another. Iranians are providing uavs and missiles to the russians for them to be able to continue their assault on ukraine. The chinese are providing cover to the iranians and the russians at the u. N. And elsewhere. The financial flows are clear. The diplomatic support is clear. There needs to be a congressional response and administration response. Even in polarized washington, d. C. , one gets the sense that a Foreign Policy may be coalescing amongst those that inhabit the center left and center right. There will always be the extremists and outliers within both parties and they have their voices and that will not change. With any luck here, we will see a coalescing of centrist Foreign Policy views in washington that rally around this notion. Dr. Jonathan schanzer, thank you for joining me. Pleasure. Firing line with Margaret Hoover is made possible in part by robert granieri, vanessa and henry cornell, the fairweather foundation, the tepper foundation, the asness family foundation, the mckenna family foundation, charles r. Schwab. And by the rosalind p. Walter foundation and damon button. Corporate funding is provided by stephens inc. [female announcer] everisplace your phone . Forget someones name . Or struggle to find the right words . Of course you have. It happens to all of us. But if you find it happening more and more, it may be a sign of trouble. In memory makeover , psychiatrist, brainimaging pioneer and founder of amen clinics, dr. Daniel amen,