Transcripts For KQED PBS NewsHour 20240712

Amazon is accurate, because mostly amazon denies that anything is happening. Woodruff all that and more, on tonights pbs newshour. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by advice for life. Li wellplanned. Learn more at raymondjames. Com. For 25 years, consumer cellulars goal has been to nocontract wireless plans, designed to help people do more of what they like. Our u. S. Based customeservice team can help find a plan that fits you. To learn more, visit www. Consumercellular. Tv. Johnson johnson. Bnsf railway. Fidelity wealth management. The john s. And james l. Knight foundation. Fostering informed and engaged communities. More at kf. Org. And with the ongoing support of these institutions and individuals. This program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Woodruff the questions have been coming all day literally for u. S. Supreme Court Nominee amy coney barrett. Members of the Senate Judiciary committee have pressedor answers, with mixed results. John yang begins our coverage. Yang front and center in supreme Court Nominee Amy Coney Barretts confirmation hearing today, some of the countrys biggest hot button issues. Judges cant just wake up one day and say, i have an agenda. I like guns, i hate guns; i like abortion, i hate abortion. You have to wait for cases and controversies. Its distressing not to get a straight answer. Yang tensions rose as senators pressed judge barrett, a mentee of the late justice antonin scalia, on how Justice Barrett might affect americans lives. My personal views dont have anything to do with how i would decide cases, and i dont want anybody to be unclear abou that. If im confirmed, you would not be getting justice scalia. You would be getting Justice Barrett. Yang under questioning from Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham of south carolina, barrett talked about some of those views. Ive tried to be on a media blackout for the sake of my mental health. But, you know, you cant keep yourself walled off from everything. And im aware of a lot of the caricatures that are floating around. So i think what i would like to say in response to that question is that, look, ive made distinct choices. Ive decided to pursue a career and have a large family. I have a multiracial family. Our faith is important to us. All of those things are true, but they are my choices. And in my personal interactions with people i mean, i have a life brimming with people who have made different choices. And ive never tried in my personal life to impose my choices on them. Can you set aside whatever catholic beliefs you have regarding any issue before you . I can. I have done that in my time on the 7th circuit. If i stay on the 7th circuit, ill continue to do that. If im confirmed to the Supreme Court, ill do that still. When it comes to your personal views about this topic do you own a gun . E do own a gun. All right. Do you think you could fairly decide a case even though you own a gun . Yes. Yang in 2019, as a federal Appeals Court judge, barrett wrote that convicted felons should not automatically be denied the right to own a gun. Like previous nominees, barrett declined to say if the landmark case, roe versus wade, guaranteeing the right to an abortion, was wrongly decided a view she expressed as a law professor. Senator Dianne Feinstein of california, the panels top democrat, questioned her on the issue. So let me try again. Do you agree with Justice Scalias view that roe was wrongly decided . I have no agenda to try to overrule casey. I have an agenda to stick to the rule of law and decide cases as they come. Yang later, under questioning by minnesota senator amy klobuchar, barrett said roe is not so widely accepted to be considered a superprecedent. Im answering a lot of questions about roe, which i think indicates that roe doesnt fall in that category. And scholars across the spectrum say that doesnt mean that roe should be overruled. But descriptively, it does mean that its not a case that everyones accepted and doesnt call for its overruling. To my colleagues on the other side of the aisle whare fearmongering on this. Yang republicans pushed back on democrats arguments that a Justice Barrett would help a 63 conservative court overturn the Affordable Care act, or a. C. A. The court is to hear a challenge to the law on november 10. All of you over there want to impose obamacare in south carolina. We dont want it. Yang as a law professor, barrett criticized chief Justice John Roberts basis for his 2012 ruling that upheld central pillars of president Barack Obamas health care law, writing in a 2017 law review article that he pushed the Affordable Care acteyond its plausible meaning to save the statute. I was not attacking chief justice roberts, or impugning his character, or anything of that sort. It was an academic critique. And i want to emphasize, given this line of questions that youre asking, im standing before the committee today saying i have the integrity to act consistently with my oath and apply the law as the law, to approach the a. C. A. And every other statute without bias. I ve not made any commitments or deals or anything like that. Im not here on a mission to destroy the a. C. A. Im here to apply the law. Yang barrett declined to say if she would recuse herself from either the a. C. A. Case, which President Trump says he hopes results in overturning the law. Well, senator, recusal itself is a legal issue. Thats not a question that i could answer in the abstract. Yang . Or from any case that might arise from the president ial election. I have had no conversation with the president or any of his staff on how i might rule. Yang she also sidestepped questions about the president s comments about the elections fairness. Does the constitution give e president of the United States the authority to unilaterally delay a general election under any circumstances . Does federal law . If that question ever came before me, i would need to hear arguments from the ligants and read briefs and consult with my law clerks and talk to my colleagues and go to thepinion writing process. So, you know, if i give offthe cuff answers then i would be, basically, a legal pundit, and i dont think we want judges to be legal pundits. Yang republicans like john cornyn of texas strongly defended her. Attacking somebody for their faith and suggesting that disqualifies them from Holding Public office is the attack that is being made on judicial independence. Yang tomorrow, barrett is to face another long day of questions from senators. For the pbs newshour, im john yang. Woodruff we hear now from two prominent senators on the Judiciary Committee. And we begin with democratic senator dick durbin of illinois. Senator, thank you for being with us. Tell us what your overall impression is so far of judge barrett . We on the democratic side have tried to make it it as clear as can be as that what the president promised in this nominee would be a big problem for north america, the notion we would lose coverage under the Affordable Care act or she would somehow be the president s affect cat when it comes to an election contest are really serious charges. So today would have seen a series of questions asked of judge barrett about those two important issues. Woodruff and what have you learned in listening to her answers . Well, a number of things. She has denied in every aspect that shes made any promises to anyone as to how shell vote as a judge, but she has noted the fact that many have raised the question of recusal, in other words, would she excuse herself from decisionmaking on the court on certain subjects. She has not clearly said one way tore the other but has opened up the possibily of engaging in that process, particularly when it comes to the question of an election contest following november 3. Woodruff we did hear her we heard that, senator. We also heard her repeatedly cite when justices ginsburg and kagan in their confirmation hearings dlined to answer questions, she quoted them and said they wouldnt answer these questions, i cant answer these questions. Did you expect her to go further than she did . For better or worse, judy, thats really what weve come to expect on the Judiciary Committee. There are a lot of efforts to avoid saying anything proker con about any case that might come up in the future or those in the past. There was an exception. I asked her about a dissenting opinion in canter v. Bar and she made it car she felt it was fair game. We had a lengthy exchange on permissions to purchase guns. Woodruff i wanted to ask you about that because you spent time with her on guns. We learned from her earlier in the hearing that she does own a gun. Did you only away with a better understanding of how she would rule on gun rights or gun control cases . Well, she said something which was troublesome in no other circuit in the federal judiciary agrees with her position. She believes that where we say you cant purchase a gun if you have committed a felony or have mental illness, she would be more specific and make it a violent felony and i think shes gone too far, certainly than the statute considered, and it would be worrisome. I made it clear to her. She lives in the state of indiana right around the corner from chicago and a lot of crime guns make their way from indiana to chicago. I dont want to make it any easier for people to purchase guns used in the commission of a crime and i think the standard she came up with is problematic and troublesome. Woodruff and i also heard you drawing a contrast between her position with regard to felons owning a gun and then with regard to felons being given the right to vote. What did you discern from that . Well, its interesting. Senator from missouri came back this afternoon witquestions, we say in the courtroom, to rehabilitate the witness, where she i tried to raise that question, why is it that if you have committed a felony you can take away a persons right to vote, but if you committed a fennely, not a violent felony under her interpretation, you could still purchase a firearm. We went back and forth on that. Im not sure based on her latest question where she stands, but it troubles me that a person committing a felony would not be allowed to vote but would be allowed to purchase a firearm if it were not a violent felony. Thats a standard which i find very difficult to understand. Woodruff what do you believe she would do, senator, with regard to the Affordable Care act, obamacare . I dont know, but i can tell you that senator after senator on our side has pointed to two very explicit things she has written on the only two cases interpreting the Affordable Care act and both were critical of the courts effort to keep the Affordable Care act alive. If she, in fact, is chosen and moves forward and sitting by november 10th, she will be engaged in just a few days in the oral argument that will lead to the life or deathf this important law that 23 million americans count on, and it worries us because all shes written so far has been critical of the act. Woodruff is there anything that democrats can do at this point, senator, to prevent this nomination from Going Forward, from her being confirmed . Judy, if one republican senator on the Judiciary Committee decided not to go along with the others, that would stop the nomination or at least slow it down. If two republican senators goin join the two that have said publicly theyre not going to be a part of this process, then we would at least be able to hold this decision back until after the election. I think thats a fair thing to do. Let the American People make their choice for the next president , let that president fill the vacancy. Woodruff conversely, is there any chance you see that a democrat on the Judiciary Committee could vote for her . I cant say that. We have gone through the roster of Democratic Senators asking questions and we have another day of it tomorrow. So i havent heard any indication from any senator that theyre going to set her. Most of them are holding back until they complete the investigation. Woodruff and what about the ability of democrats, senator, to slow this down, to, in some way, delay a vote until after the election . There is no way to do that undeun under the rules, we can delay it r a period of time, one week, to be specific, but that would not stop the vote scheduled before the election. Woodruff so, finally, senator, what is your goal between now and the end of this hearing . We want the American People to understand whats at stake. Its a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land. President trump has promised us over and over again that if he can fill this vacancy, certain things will happen the roe v. Wade will be overturned, that the Affordable Care act would be overturned, and that he would have some affecadvocate on the bench in an election contest. Its sorry he involved himself like this. If the American People understand this, theyll understand why we ask the questions. Woodruff senator dick durbin, thank you very much. Thank you very much, judy. Woodruff and now to republican senator Chuck Grassley of iowa. Senator, thank you so much for joining us. Tell us, first of all, what is your overall impression of judge barrett so far . Well, i think that shes got outstanding credentials, and shn the answer to the questions i think shes very transparent. But when you come with a background like she did, working for scalia, a silberman and being one in her notre dame class and getting te tenured professorship easily, and then we have 100 cases of hearse on the Circuit Court of appeals, so in every way shes very transparent from the standpoint of her work as judge and law professor, but shes also very transparent as a person, but shes got impeccable credentials. And i dont think tropica there i havent heard from republicans or democrats any dispute of that. Woodruff we heard senator dick durbin say his concern and other democrats concern is this is a nominee who President Trump believes he can count on to overturn the the aka. C. T. And roe v. Wade. Do you think she will do those things . Well, she made very clear that theres no basis for the president to assume anything about her because it never had any discussion whatsoever with either the president of the United States or anybody connected with the president of the United States about how she might rule in the future. And then she has her reputation as three years on the Circuit Court of appeals and she also has what she told us that she goes to the court with no agenda, and as a farmer, let me explain it this way, i think shes made very clear that shes going to look at the facts of the case and the law and apply and just apply those things in making a decision. And i think shes shown that three years on the Circuit Court of appeals. So i dont think theres any basis for anybody republican or democrat to have any reason from the hearings or anything from her ree years on the Circuit Court that she is anything but a person thats a strict constructionist, in other words leaving her own personal views out of a decision and looking at the law and the facts. Woodruff but even if you set aside the hearing, based on her writings and whats known to be her philosophy, do you expect her if it comes up to overturn roe v. Wade and to undo or overturn the Affordable Care act . No. From this point, that we dont even know what those cases are going to be. But lets see if it affected the a. C. A. With the severability clause, i havent heard anybody expect the case to be 100 overthrown. Maybe parts of it. And, also, roe v. Wade, not only is a precedent of 50 years, but theres a superprecedent of 30 years that would kind of dictate that the court wouldnt overturn it. Now, im speaking as a prolife person. I dont like that roe v. Wade is on the books, but you also have to be a realist about how these cases come. We dont even knowt what case might me, and most of the cases that have come to the court on abortion, as an example, have been state laws not ruling out abortion but putting some restrictions on it, like maybe having a period of time for the mother to think about 24 hours for an abortion, thats a simple one, but there have been others as well. Woodruff senator, if for any reason this president ial election is disputed and it ends up at the Supreme Court, do you think judge, then Justice Barrett if shes on the court, should recuse herself . Oh, well, shes made very clear that theres a whole process going through recusal, and shes going to go through that process, and theres no way she could tell us today shes gointo recuse or not. But you talk to colleagues, theres precedent for recusal, and youve got people that are thinking of it very deeply, but she herself will make that decision, but she doesnt do it without consultation with other eight people on the Supreme Court, and she doesnt do it without following precedent of the Supreme Court. Woodruff senator, i know you know that, in 2016, when president obama nominated Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court, you issued a statement saying it was the senates responsibility not to support a nomination during a president ial election year, that the American People shouldnt be denied a voice. Why is this nomination different . So, in 2016, when i was holding up and not having a hearing, not Going Forward with it,ta particular time, there was an historical reason for not doing it, but i was asked at that time, when i wasnt going to have a hearing and all of my town meetings were very controversial on this subject i was asked what would you you do in 2020, i said i would not have a hearing if i were chairman. Im not chairman. Graham is chairman. Im a member of that committee. I have a responsibility to do my work as a member of that committee. So chairman graham made the decision and were moving ahead based on what the chairman upsaid. Im keeping my word to the people of iowa because im not chairman of the committee. Woodruff one other thing, senator, you voted against the confirmation of both justices sotomayor and Justice Kagan. Have you had any reason to regret those votes . I think, in the case of kagan, yes. In the case of sotomayor, not so. But dont forget, those are the only two justices of all the justices that ive heard hearings on and voted on since 1980 that ive voted against. Woodruff and, just briefly, why regret Justice Kagan . Well, because i think Justice Kagan has proved herself, in five or six years, to not be the idealist that i think sotomayor is. Woodruff all right, we will leave it there. Senator Chuck Grassley, thank you very muc thank you. Woodruff we take a closer look at todays hearing with victoria nourse of georgetown university. She served as chief counsel to Vice President joe biden in 2015 and 2016, and as counsel to the Senate Judiciary committee when he was its chairman. And, Saikrishna Prakash is a constitutional law scholar at the university of virginia, and a former clerk to Justice Clarence thomas. He will be testifying before the Judiciary Committee on thursday as a witness in favor of judge barretts confirmation. Hello to both of you. So, victoria nourse, to you firster, what do you make of the questioning from the senators or, i guess in some cases, statements and the answers shes giving overall, what do you make of it . Well, i think it was fairly predictable that some senators would take this this occasion tk about their own constitutional philosophy, some of these senators are in very tight races as well, so theres a bit of campaigning going on behind the scenes. You know, i think she is being very cautious, as she should, about not undermining her independence, but its pretty predictable, given prior hearings, that we wouldnt really understand her view on particularly controversial legal issues as opposed to personal issues. Woodruff and professo prakash, predictable to you as well . Yes, i agree with professor nourse, nominees tend to not answer specific questions about cases particularly when they can say the case might come before them. The only time she really engaged with the questions is when she had decided a case or issued an opinion and then she felt freer to discuss it, partly because she had already said something about it. But beyond that, she, you know, invoked the ginsburg or the kagan rule. Woodruff let me state let me stay with you, prakash, and ask you if you were pulling the things, what would you have liked to hear the senators ask . I think theyre asking the right questions for the folks they care about. At is to say, the democrats are asking questions about the outcomes of cases in part because their Interest Groups are most focused not on process but on outcomes. Whereas the republicans like to emphasize they dont want judges that legislate from the bench, which i think speaks to the concerns of their constituent groups. Now, tropica theres one persone interested in processes and not outcomes and thats the president. The democrats, too, seem more interested in outcomes and not judicial or reasoning. Woodruff victoria nourse do you think senators have more leeway in the kinds of questions, that it would be prior productive if they pursued other avenues . No, i think you have to understand this hearing evn though predictable from her point of view, its very unusual. We are in the midst of an election, people have already voted, were in covid. Amy klobuchar seemed upset and was very effective in her questioning and really drilled down into a question about a particular dissent from judge barrett, but, you know, i wish they would focus a little more we shouldnt have this dichotomy between the democrats on the outcomes and the republicans on the process because its both, and once shes on the Supreme Court, even if she comes to her decision by a process that, you know, republicans have blessed, you know, there are effects. Its different if you are an appellate or a trial court judge. She will be one of nine elected people, an expert in statutory interpretation, and that means she could agree with trump that this a. C. A. Case, this statute doesnt make any sense anymore, it says that the individual mandate is essential and therefore ill throw the whole thing out. Thats the Trump Administration argument. So i think people need to see both to understand whats going on because the method is a code for the results in some ways. I wish the democrats would push more on that but i understand why theyre not because its a very unusual situation and they want to communicate to people what a notre dame professor did in a letter which is this is an unusual hearing. Lets talk ability Voting Rights and gun rights, lets not push this through while were voting. Woodruff Saikrishna Prakash, is there something judge barrett could be doing in the way she tackles the questions. We know shes careful not to hurt her chances in any way, not to box herself in if she is confirmed to the court, but is there anything different she could be doing . Just as i wouldnt give advice to the senators about their job, i wouldnt give advice to the jud. I think shes doing a terrific job given the constraints she and other judges feel in answering these questions. I think shes willing to speak about broad methodology but not about particularly outcomes and not about the status of particular doctrines and i think that makes sense given the fact she may be at a higher level. Even if she doesnt get the promotion, she will be a judge and doesnt want to be perceived as prejudging the case. Woodruff professor nourse, for people watching the hearings that dont mow the law, whats the best outcome here, that we learn more about her, that we hear more about these issues, whats the point . I think, you know, i am a traditionalist about civics. I think, you know, people want this in some ways to be you know, law professors want it to be very legal and academic, but i think its actually good to bring human beings into the courtroom. I think im one of very few law professors who have ever worked in congress, only two , and we had members that actually worked in the senate. That never happens. They go through the arings and say what are you talking about the results there . I cant say anything about the results. But i think its important for the American People to see the Supreme Court has enormous power that affects their lives, thats why some people are concerned were doing this before the election . Ive node that some of her colleagues at notre dame now have issued these arent at the law school but theyve issued a lter to her saying she should withdraw her nomination and wait until after the election because its so unusual. It is a civics lesson and thats why they will talk about results because the senators are constitutionally represent issues to the people. So thats a legitimate function of the hearing. Woodruff were going to leave it there. We have tomorrow to. Go we have to say Justice Steven breyer served on the Judiciary Committee for a short time. Victoria nourse and Saikrishna Prakash, thank you both. Woodruff florida is one of the biggest prizes on election day. It is also one of the prize swing states that has voted for the candidate who has won the president ial election for more than 20 years. That is why both President Trump and his democratic rival joe biden have been campaigning there in the last day. Yamiche alcindor has our report. Alcindor in the sunshine state, former Vice President joe biden making his case to older voters. To donald trump, its simple, not a joke youre expendable. Youre forgettable. Youre virtually nobody. Thats how he sees you. Thats how he sees you. Alcindor its a key demographic in the state. In 2016, voterover 65 years old were more than 20 of the electorate in florida, and they overwhelmingly backed President Trump helping him pull off a narrow win here. But in an Emerson College poll released this week, biden leads with those same voters by six points. Floridas 29 electoral votes are critical for both mpaigns. Its great to be back in my home state, florida, to make my official return to the campaign trail. Alcindor just last night, President Trump rallied voters in sanford, his First Campaign rally since he was hospitalized with the coronavirus. One thing with me the nice part i went through it. Now they say im immune. I can feel i feel so powerful. Im walking through that audience cheers and applause ill walk in there, ill kiss everyone in that audience. When youre the president , you cant lock yourself in a basement and say im not going to bother with the world. Youve got to get out. And its risky. Its risky. But youve got to get out. Alcindor meanwhile, Vice President mike pence campaigned in another battleground state, wisconsin. I think the choice in this election is whether america remains america. Alcindor with just three weeks until election day, more than 11 Million People have already cast their ballots. Ive never seen a line this long. Its really amazing. Alcindor those hoping to vote early in person, from georgia, to kentucky, to texas, have faced long lines. In some places, waiting hours. I think it just shows that everyones, like, ready to vote and doesnt want their vote to be suppressed and doesnt want to wait and wants to get it over with and wants to know the results by the day of the election. Alcindor despite the alreadyhigh turnout, voting experts warn it may take days after polls close on november 3 for all the votes to be counted. For the pbs newshour, im yamiche alcindor. Woodruff in the days other news, the u. S. Supreme Court Ordered a halt to counting for the u. S. Census. Civil Rights Groups wanted to contin until october 31, to prevent an undercounting of minorities. The Trump Administration argued that the count should end immediately, so it can report final numbers by a yearend deadline. Online Voter Registration was disrupted in virginia today, on the deadline date for signing up. State officials blamed an accidental cut in a fiber optic cable. The outage could prevent thousands of people from registering to vote. The f. B. I. Says antigovernment groups from several states discussed kidnapping Virginia Governor ralph northam, last summer. An f. B. I. Agent says they opposed northams pandemic lockdown orders. The disclosure came today at a federal Court Hearing in michigan, where six men are accused of plotting to kidnap that governor, gretchen whitmer. In europe, the World Health Organization reports a second wave of covid19 is accelerating, with 700,000 cases last week. That is up 34 from a week earlier. Britain, france, russia and spain are hardest hit, and they and other countries are imposing fresh controls. In italy today, there was grim acceptance by many. translated it must be done. That is what we have to do, because the infection is flying and that is the only thing we can do to protect ourselves as elderly, and children as well. There is not much to discuss about freedom, the fact is that we are in the middle of a pandemic, full stop. Oodruff meanwhile, Johnson Johnson halted a latestage vaccine trial after one participant developed an unexplained illness. And, eli lilly paused a study sting its drug, remdesivir, plus an antibody therapy. It cited safety reasons, but gave no details. The u. N. Weather agency warned today that the numbers of people needing humanitarian help could jump 50 by 2030, due to natural disasters. Thats compared with 108 Million People who needed aid in 2018. The u. N. Group blames a rise in extreme weather events, attributed to climate change. The World Trade Organization has cleared the way for the European Union to slap 4 billion in tariffs on u. S. Goods. It stems from a longrunning fight over aircraft subsidies. The w. T. O. Says that u. S. Tax breaks for boeing broke trade rules. It already authorized 7. 5 billion in u. S. Penalties on european goods, over e. U. Support for airbus. Back in this country, Social Security recipients will get a cola or costofliving adjustment that averages 20 a month. Officials today announced an increase of 1. 3 for next year. That is slightly less than this years adjustment. And on wall street, stocks reined in after a fourday rally. The Dow Jones Industrial average lost 157 points to close at 28,679. The nasdaq fell 12 points, and the s p 500 slipped 22. Still to come on the newshour the death toll from covid19 continues to climb as winter approaches. And, we show how amazon is misleading the public about rising injury rates at the company. Woodruff as we reported earlier, the world is struggling to slow a surge in the number of new covid cases. The problem is especially bad in europe, where the united kingdom, spain, italy and france account for a large share of the new cases. But as amna nawaz tells us, these concerns are global. Nawaz judy, new hotspots are emerging around the world, and some epicenters are getting worse. In india, the total number of cases now tops seven million. In brazil, a new milestone this week, with more than 150,000 deaths. And infections are now rising in a number of other countries, including russia, nepal, iran, and right here in the unit states, where covid cases are increasing in a majority of states. Meanwhile, a new Study Suggests the u. S. Death toll could be even higher than previously thought. Lawrence gostin specializes in global health. He has advised special committees of the World Health Organization, and served on a special ebola commission for the u. N. Secretary general. Hes now at the Georgetown Law School. Lawrence gostin, welcome back to the newshour. So the head of the World Health Organization said covid 19 activity is up, accelerating around the world, but it is uneven, so when you look at the countries that are seeing a surge, why are they seeing that surming . Is there something that they have in common . Yeah, i mean, i think there are probably a few things they have in common. I mean, the first thing is they havent followed science. You know, if you look at, say, among the top five worst performing countries, many have populi leaders, they undermine science, they unrmine public trust, and the other reason is theres a lot of fatigue. The public just wants to get back to normal and, so, theyre going back to bars, restaurants, things like that, and governments have, you know, gotten out of the lockdowns really quickly and didnt do what was eded like testing, tracing and isolation in order to keep it under control. So youve seen vast differences between countries. You look at the way governments are responding. In germany theyve implemented in specific cities, berlin and frankfort, a partial curfew saying bars and restaurants have to close earlier. Is that sufficient to slow the spread theyre seeing . It depends on the country. Germanys done a pretty good job. So if youve gotten your cases relatively low like germany is, then you can just target hot spots. China has done this actually particularly effectively. They got their cases down to negligible ways. When they see a cluster, they throw everything at it. Theyre massively testing and theyre testing a whole major city, and they have targeted quarantines or lockdowns and its been very effective. You know, the virus is there, its going to come back unless youre really on top of it, and thats the message that i think all political leaders need to know. Reporter so what about here in the United States . As everyone remembers, several regions, almost every state, had some kind of lockdown earlier in the pandemic. We got the daily number of cases down to a low in early september, around 35,000 cases a day. Were back up now to about 50,000 cases a day. So is this this fall surge everyones been warning about and was it inevitable . Well, certainly it wasnt inevitable. When we had our cases down to a relatively low level, when we were kind oft at a moderate level, we could ha really used our Public Health measures like social distancing, personal hygiene, no major public gatherings, mask use, but we didnt do any of that. And, as a result, were seeing hot spots throughout the United States. Its really concerning to see that kind of level of spikes in our case counts and indeed in our hospitalizations. Reporter so what can be done about it now here in the United States . You mentioned some of the fatigue, people are tired of the restrictions, even if theyre following the science and masking and social stancing theres a desire to reopen. Is it hard for leaders to reimpose the restrictions this late in the pandemic is this. It really is. Lockdowns as the w. H. O. Just said yesterday, they cant be the primary method of controlling covid. And, so, what we need is to have populationwide interventions. We need everybody to wear masks. We need people to social distance. We shouldnt be opening bars and restaurants. Any indoor spaces, if you think about it as a rule of law thumb, anytime youre indoors with a lot of people or even a small group, youre not Wearing Masks and youre close together, youre going to get transmission, weve seen it from the white house to political rallies to bars to restaurants to dormitories, an thats the problem. And we cant do anything about it unless we all participate in trying to keep this down and until we can get an effective vaccine and therapeutics. Woodruff reporter strs rorter theres a new study about excess deaths. We know the death toll tops 215,000. This new study says there were an additional 75,000 deaths from march to july, deaths indirectly related to the pandemic. What does hat number mean and why does it matter . So why does that happen . It happens because, first of all, people delay going to the doctor. You have signs of cancer, you dont go. Youve got Heart Disease or pain in your chest, you dont go. You have die beebts, you dont manage diabetes, you dont manage it. Thats one reason. Another reason is we have people who are lonely so were seeing substance abuse, were seeing partner abuse, and then, finally, people are being driven into poverty. Theres food insecurity. People are being evicted from their homes. There are more homeless people. There are people without jobs, and weve known for a long time that the social determinates of health make a huge difference in our outcomes and whether we die young, and thats exactly whats happening in the united stas now, indirectly, but also directly due to covid 19. Woodruff so Many Americans feeling the effects of this pandemic. That was Lawrence Gostin of the Georgetown Law School joining us tonight. Thank you for your time. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Woodruff as the pandemic persists, Online Shopping is increasingly an essential part of life. Today is prime day, where amazon is offering deals on thousands of items. But they come with a cost an increased risk to workers rushing to fill orders. Last year, we ought you a special report by reveal, from the center for investigative reporting, about injury rates at Amazon Fulfillment Centers across the u. S. Reporter will evans has stayed on the story, and hes obtained a trove of Confidential Company records that sheds new light on injury patterns at these busy warehouses. Reporter last november, reveal and the pbs newshour published an investigation about Workplace Safety at Amazon Fulfillment Centers across the country. We found workers exposed to a gas leak in a Southern California warehouse, and a man crushed to death by a forklift in indiana. That reporting led to sources giving reveal a trove of documents, never before made public four years of weekly injury numbers for more than 150 Amazon Fulfillment Centers nationwide, along with hundreds of pages of amazons internal safety memos. These documents give an unprecedented look into how many workers have been injured and how amazon is responding. According to amazons own records, last year, it had more than 14,000 serious injuries, meaning the injury prevented the worker from doing their usual job. The rate of these injuries was nearly twice the indusy average. Many of these injuries are similar to those suffered by candice dixon, from our original report. I had a whole shift of all heavy items. Thats what happened. I got injured. I pulled my back out. Reporter dixon couldnt work at amazon anymore because of her injury. Now, more than two years later, her workers comp settlement has run out, and she says shes still in pain. I cant stand for too long. I cant sit for too long. I cant do warehouse work. I dont know what else to do. I guess its just going to be a problem that im going to have forever. Reporter amazon portrays its warehouses as safe and getting better. Safety is its numberone priority, and its Safety Culture is built on a philosophy of continuous improvement, an amazon executive wrote to 15 senators in february. But, its Safety Record has been getting worse. Internal records show that its injury rate has increased every single year between 2016 and 2019, and our latest trove of internal documents shows amazon knowingly misled the public about safety issues at its warehouses. Lets take a closer look at these safety claims. First, amazon claims that robots theyve introduced to many warehouses help improve safety. Amazons c. E. O. Of worldwide consumer business, jeff wilke, touted the robots last year. The robots change the work so they allow us people dont have to walk as far, which is a complaint that weve heard in the past. They make the job safer. Reporter but amazons own records dont back that up. Overall, warehouses with robots actually had higher injury rates. In fact, the rate of serious injuries at the most common type of Fulfillment Center was more than 50 higher at robotic warehouses. Workers and former safety managers have told us, robots increase the speed of production, so employees have to go faster. This can lead to repetitive stress injuries and safety shortcuts that result in accidents. And amazon has insisted that injury rates do not go up during its busiest shopping times prime day and the holidays. Last year, amazon told us, the rate of injury has historically decreased or been stable during these two times. Thats false. According to amazons own records, injury rates have spiked during the weeks of cyber monday and amazons own holiday, prime day. And finally, amazon says its injury rates are high due to an aggressive stance on recording injuries, no matter how big or small, according to a letter sent to lawmakers this year. But internal memos and interviews reveal that amazon has tried to lower injury rates by controlling the medical care injured workers receive at several Fulfillment Centers. For example, at this colorado Fulfillment Center, amazon attributed its high injury rates to the medical providers who gave injured workers treatment that required amazon to record them for osha, the Occupational Safety and health administration. So amazon terminated its use of an occupational clinic and switched to another. It was more or less understood that if if too many of these injuries were being recordable, at it would put the contract with that company at risk. Reporter this medical provider, who asked to remn anonymous for fear of retaliation, used to work for coloradobased advanced urgent care and occupational medicine, the clinic amazon switched to in april of 2019. Amazons own injury numbers show that once the Company Changed clinics, injury rates at the warehouse went down. Your company, you had a bunch of different clients, but amazon was different. Amazon felt different. You know, when an amazon patient would come in, i would feel, maybe a little more anxious about what sort of care i would want t provide, but maybe would think twice about providing. I began to feel more pressure from my supervisors to try to make these claims not recordable. Reporter so that means changing how you treat them . So, for example, were encouraged to not put any of amazons patients on work leave for their first visit. Repter he left the clinic last year. Looking at the clinics current website, he criticized some of the language. When the injury can be cared for without becoming osha recordable, its good for both the employer and the injured employee. The bottom line is, if a patnt requires a certain level of care, then thats the care that they should receive, and wheer or not that claim is recordable should be an afterthought. Reporter two other advanced medical providers also said they were pressured to keep amazons injuries off the books. I got a hold of the owner of advanced, tony euser, who told me that wasnt the clinics protocol. That was never a policy of our company. That has never been underthe table policy of our company. Reporter euser says that after this year, he will stop providing workers Comp Services to companies, including amazon. We have actually determined that this whole juggling process with companies isnt worth it. Its just too much. Hassle factor of trying to balance between employees and employers. And its not worth it. Reporter while amazon sends some injured workers to clinics like eusers, other employees have a hard time even getting that level of care. A former medical officer for osha, Kathleen Fagan investigated amazon for years and found the company was using its inhouse e. M. T. S to give workers improper medical care. Amazon was trying to prevent workers from seeing a doctor outside. We saw evidence in the medical records of e. M. T. S or supervisors discouraging their workers from seeking medical care. Reporter whats the result of that for the workers . For instance, there was a young woman who was moving a pallet and there was dust that flew in her eye. They flushed her eye out and sent her back to work. After a few more days, went to see an eye doctor, who had to remove an embedded wood chip from her eye. Reporter we asked amazon about its safety claims, and how its own internal memos and injury numbers contradict their statements. Amazon declined repeated requests to be interviewed, and refused to directly answer our questions. They sent a general written statement saying, nothing is more important than the health and safety of our teams. So far in 2020, we have committed over 1 billion in new investments in Safety Measures amazon spokespeople sent out an additional statement, saying its misleading to judge their Workplace Safety based solely on the number of injuries. We strongly refute the claims that weve misled anyone. We obsess about our employees and their safety. We showed our findings to congresswoman pramila jayapal, whose district houses amazons headquarters in seattle. Do you have concerns about amazons ability to tell the public and lawmakers the truth . Thats at the crux of all of this, even for me as a lawmaker. Its what troubles me. I dont know that the information im getting from amazon is accurate, because mostly amazon denies that anything is happening, and says that there is a vast network of people who are simply reporting on things to make them look bad. I just dont believe that. Reporter amazons stock has surged more than 60 this year, and last month the company said its recruiting another 100,000 employees to keep up with demand during the pandemic. We dont yet know how the increase in Online Shopping during the pandemic has affected amazons injury numbers, but with prime day this month and peak Holiday Shopping around the corner, workers are facing the season that has had some of the highest spikes in injuries. For the pbs newshour and reveal, im will evans in emeryville, california. Woodruff on the newshour online right now, a new anthology of native poetry fills a significant gap in americaniterature, says u. S. Poet laureate joy harjo. She talked recently to Jeffrey Brown about helping compile the new collection, and what its like to be the nations poet laureate during the pandemic. Thats on our website, www. Pbs. Org newshour. And that is the newshour for tonight. Im judy woodruff. Stay with us online tonight for pbss continued coverage of the barrett hearings, and then again at 9 00 a. M. Eastern tomorrow for more special live coverage. For all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you, please stay safe, and well see you soon. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by when the world gets complicated, aot goes through your mind. With fidelity wealth management, a dedicated advisor can tailor advice and recommendations to your life. Thats fidelity wealth management. Consumer cellular. Johnson johnson. Bnsf railway. Financial Services Firm raymond james. Carnegie corporation of new york. Supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of International Peace and security. At carnegie. Org. And with the ongoing support of these institutions this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org sonora one of the largest states in all of mexico. 70,000 square miles of farmland, coastline, and ranches. 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