Transcripts For KQED PBS NewsHour 20240712

Judy all that and more on tonights pbs newshour. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by. When the world gets complicated, a lot goes through your mind. With fidelity wealth management, a dedicated advisor can tailor advice and recommendations to your life. Consumer cellular. Johnson johnson. Financial Services Firm Raymond James. Bnsf railway. The william and flora hewlett foundation. For more than 50 years, advancing ideas and supporting institutions to promote a better world at hewlett. Org. The Chan Zuckerberg initiative, working to build a more healthy, just, and inclusive future for everyone at czi. Org. And with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. This made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Judy questions about federal income taxes are swirling around President Trump again tonight. The issue has surfaced repeatedly since he first began running for president in 2015. Now, a published report says he has paid little or nothing in taxes for years in a row. White house correspondent Yamiche Alcindor begins our coverage. Reporter a blockbuster New York Times story, President Trump on defense over his taxes and all this just one day before his first debate with former Vice President joe biden. This morning, the white house was quick to put out press secretary kayleigh mcenany. Weve seen this play out before where there was a hit piece about the president s taxes just before a debate. And an inaccurate one at that. This is the same playbook they tried in 2016, the same playbook the American People rejected and will do so again. Reporter the times says it obtained the president s tax records from the last two decades. It reports that the documents show he paid just 750 in federal taxes in 2016 and 750 in 2017, and it concluded he paid no income taxes for at least 10 years. It also says, in part, he depends more and more on making money from businesses that put him in potential and often direct conflict of interest with his job as president. And that mr. Trump has been more successful playing a business mogul than being one in real life. In a tweet today, the president claims to have paid many millions of dollars in taxes but was entitled to depreciation tax credit. And in a News Conference yesterday, he dismissed the times findings. Its fake news. Its totally fake news. Made up, fake. Reporter the times also reports the president faces chronic financial losses and he faces hundreds of millions of debt coming due in the years just ahead. The Biden Campaign quickly rolled out an ad highlighting taxes paid by working americans condemning the president s alleged evasion of his share. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the findings raised National Security questions. This president appears to have over 400 million in debt, 420 whatever it is, to whom . Different countries . What is the leverage they have . Reporter in a phone interview with msnbc, president s trump former lawyer Michael Cohen said the findings are disgraceful. He is now disbarred and serving a threeyear federal sentence for Campaign Finance violations, tax evasion, and lying to congress. So if i went to jail for 36 months on tax evasion, which probably should have been tax omission, donald trump should do 360 years. Reporter meanwhile biden , continues to prepare for tomorrows debate. The president s taxes are now sure to be a main topic as cleveland, ohio hosts 2020s first president ial debate in t general election. For the pbs newshour, im Yamiche Alcindor. Judy so what does the times reporting seem to tell us about President Trumps business practices, and how they line up with what other wealthy americans do when paying their taxes . For that, we turn to david cay johnston, an investigative journalist and author who focuses on tax issues, and who has long followed President Trumps business dealings. And peter faber, a tax attorney who often advises wealthy clients. Hello to both of you. Thank you so much for joining us. David johnston, you have looked at donald trump businesses for a long time. What do you make of what you are seeing in the report . The reason donald does not want you to see his tax returns is clear, he did not pay taxes in many years. Secondly, there is a great deal of evidence in the times reported that donald is not doing this through lawful tax avoidance but engaged in tax evasion. That is not a new thing for the president. He had two civil trials for income tax fraud. In the past, he lost them and was found to have forged documents. Judy lets get to that in just a minute, but lets bring peter faber in. You have advised a number of wealthy people. How does the president s tax picture compared to someone else of great wealth and how they file taxes . Its fairly typical of a person who is in the real estate business, real estate people, although often they have loads of income, have legitimate deductions, and it is not unusual for a real estate person to have very little, and in many cases, no incontact liability income tax liability. Judy that being the case, if it is fairly common for people not to pay because of depreciation or other advantages, what does make this extraordinary in your mind . I agree with peter. If you are a good enough family and you pay income taxes, i think you should sue your tax lawyer for malpractice. But donalds businesses are where he doesnt have that appreciation. Licensing deals from overseas for example and his television show. The report shows the deduction of what they say our personal legal expenses, what looks to be a disguised gift of abo 700 20,000 to ivanka trump from her father, rather than paying the gift tax on it. And the deductions, 1. 4 billion deductions for just two years, not a steady plain overtime of income Tax Deductions as you write down the value of a building. Judy let me ask about a couple of those things. Number one, a lot of depreciation when he doesnt own as much as he did. At one point earlier in his career. Then the question about how much of his business is licensing deals rather than ownership. Yes, i think the times doesnt go into detail about how much he takes as depreciation deductions and so on. But what they do point out is that there are a lot of items that he has claimed as business expenses that arguably are personal expenses. For example, the cost of maintaining the Seven Springs resort in westchester county, the payment to ivanka, allegedly a consulting fee of 700,000 may well be a disguised gift. I think there also are apparently lump sum deductions for legal fees. We dont know what is in those and other they arent act legitimate business expenses. There is some speculation they may include the payments to stormy daniels. If so, that would not be legitimate business expenses. Judy one of the things that others have raised is that 750, he says he has paid tens of millions in taxes in recent years. Could both be true . Could he have paid 750 two years in a row, and paid ends of millions . President trump did not break down what he meant by that. There are lots of taxes besides income taxpayer there are state taxes and others. He paid the philippines government over 100,000, one of thyears he paid 750 to the american government. If you lk at all his taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes for employees, sure, you can come up with that number, but for the majority of years in this century, he paid no income taxes, and some of these taxes he paid were refundable taxes. In 200 he paid about 36 Million Dollars for something called alternative minimum tax, which he got refunded in future years. It was a shortterm zero interest loan to uncle sam. Judy and peter faber, so many things to ask about, but one of the things that come through here is the president owes 300 million to be paid back in the next four years. Is it clear that he has the money to pay it back . What does it tell you . We dont know if he has the money. My guess is he doesnt have a huge amount of cash. Thats not apparent from the reporting. But typically, people in business use their cash, they reinvest. They dont have millions and millions and hdreds of millions inash sitting around in a baker count. My guess bank account. My guess is that will be a real big problem forim. Judy and what questions do you have, in order to get a full picture of whether the president paid his fair share, what else do we need to know . If i were an irs agent, would want to know a breakdown of all the items he has claimed in his lump sum of business expense deductions. I would like to know details about who he paid, for what, how much, and when. You can hide a lot of detail amidst generalities. I agree with david. I think the American People have the right to know the details, not just generalities. Judy today, the cirman of the Senate Finance committee, Chuck Grassley a viable, when he was asked about the report, he says, im asking how much its taking the irs so long to get these audits done. Im concerned they are not getting their work done. Is it common for the irs to take years and years to do audits like this . It really shouldnt take that long. Again, we dont have the details and we dont know the issues that were raised. Obviously mr. Trumps tax returns are more complicated than yours and mine, nevertheless it should not take years and years to complete an audit. I was surprised to read that. Judy and david cay johnston, a comment about that . Trump can resolve all of these issues by just releasing his tax returns. At least release the 1040s and lets see whats going on. Congress should hold hearings on how we audits returns of wealthy people. Less than 3 of people who make over 1 million a year, including pele who make billions, are being audited these days because we have slashed the irs. We got rid of one third the irs auditors in the last 10 years. Judy we are going to leave it there. We thanked both of you for shedding light on this massive amount of reporting by the New York Times. David cay johnston, peter faber, thank you both. Thank you. Thank you. Stephanie im stephanie sy with newshour west. We will return to Judy Woodruff and the rest of t program after these headlines. The global death toll from covid19 has just passed one million, including 205,000 in the United States. That comes as u. S. Infections are rising again. At the white house, Vice President pence forecast even higher numbers as millions of rapid tests go out to the states, next week. With this historic advance in testing thats being distributed, 150 strong around the country, mr. President , the American People should anticipate that cases will rise in the days ahead. Stephanie for his part, the president claimed again that the country is rounding the corner on the pandemic. Tonight, Infectious Disease expert dr. Anthony fauci said he has concerns about a member of the White House Coronavirus task force. He told cnn that dr. Scott atlas sometimes gives information to the president that is taken either out of context or actually incorrect. This evening, House Democrats released a new scaled down Coronavirus Relief bill. Speaker pelosi said the 2. 2 trillion dollar proposal is a compromise measure. There is no public response from the white house or congressional republicans. Suicides in the military are up 20 this year, over last year. Air force and Army Officials say the stress of covid19 restrictions and isolations may be partly to blame. The army says it is looking at shortening combat deployments as one response. In the nations capital, the u. S. Senate was largely silent, but tomorrow, the fight over confirming Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court begins in earnest or the federal appeals judge faces confirmation hearings starting october 12. A full senate vote is set for october 29. We will focus on the fight and her record after the news summary. This evening, several fires in Northern California are threatening lives and property. Three people died in a fire outside of redding, california and wine country is on fire a gun with more than 50,000 in the area poll to evacuate. Fires broke out sunday in the napa sonoma region and quickly quadrupled in size, burning a winery, an inn and homes. More than 8,50other homes and buildings are still threatened. U. S. Commerce secretary wilbur ross says the 2020 census will end october 5. He made that announcement despite a federal judge ruling last week that the count of count should continue through the end of october. Overseas in belarus mass , protests are continuing and so are the arrests. At least 100,000 people marched in minsk on sunday, and riot Police Responded with tear gas. In all, 500 people were detained over the weekend. The protesters say president Alexander Lukashenko rigged his reelection and must step down. New fighting has erupted between armenia and azerbaijan in a longstanding border conflict in southwestern asia. Attacks began sunday in nagornokarabakh, a separatist region inside azerbaijan but controlled by ethnic armenians. Reports said dozens of people were killed or wounded. Neighboring turkey backs azerbaijan, and its president blamed armenia for the trouble. I once again condemn armenia. Turkey will continue to stand by its friend and brethren azerbaijan by all means and with all its part heart. It is time to bring an end to the regional crisis that started with nagornokarabakhs occupation. Stephanie russia voiced concern and caused called for an immediate ceasefire. Back in this country, President Trumps former Campaign Manager Brad Parscale has been hospitalized in florida, for psychiatric evaluation. Police talked him out of his Fort Lauderdale home on sunday, after his wife reported he had guns and was threatening to hurt himself. Parscale was demoted from Campaign Manager in july, after a series of missteps. The trump administrations attempt to ban tiktok from u. S. App stores is on hold. The band was set to take effect overnight but a federal judge i new york blocked it. Lawyers for tiktok argued it would infringe on First Amendment rights. Still to come on the newshour with judy road worth rude wife, judge Amy Coney Barrett and the fight over her confirmation. How the Airline Industry has been grounded during the pandemic. Why the cruise industry is desperate to return to see, and much more. This is the pbs newshour from weta studios in washington and in the west from the Walter Cronkite school of journalism at Arizona State university. Judy it is one of the most important choices a president makes. In this critical moment, the stakes are high for the future of the u. S. Supreme court. John yang examines President Trumps nomination and how it comes with the election as a backdrop. Reporter democratic Vice President ial nominee Kamala Harris led her partycriticism of Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett today. If nothing else, the voters should be verylear about one thing. President trump and his party and judge barrett will overturn the Affordable Care act, and they wont stop there. Reporter barrett, a trump nominated federal Appeals Court judge and former notre dame law professor, says her role model is the late Justice Antony school leah, conservative icon. I clerked for Justice Scalia. His philosophy is mine, too. A judge must apply the laws written. Reporter if confirmed, she would succeed Ruth Bader Ginsburg, perhaps the greatest ideological shift since 1991 when Clarence Thomas replaced thurgood marshall. Liberals lamented the change. I, someone of color, as a female, i hope this does not get through because id really like to see some real justice and someone to uphold rbgs legacy. Reporter among her strong supporters are opponents of abortion rights. It is definitely a change from having a liberal in the Supreme Court to having a more conservative catholic who is able to speak out about our belis in the Supreme Court. Reporter when the Senate Confirmed barrett for the Appeals Court in 2017, she said the courts roe v wade decision establishing abortion rights was settled precedent even though she has said it was wrongly decided. On the Appeals Court, she has appeared sympathetic to state laws restricting access to abortion. If she joins the court by early november, one of the first cases barrett would hear would be the latest challenge to the Affordable Care act. As a law professor, barrett wrote in a 2017 law review article that chief justice John Robertss 54 opinion upholding the law pushed the act beyond its plausible meaning. Health care has been at the center of democratic president ial nominee joe bidens opposition to barrett. Democrats hope to steer clear of the questions about barretts religious faith that came up in her Appeals Court confirmation hearing, and led some social conservatives torand them as anticatholic. When you read the speeches, the conclusion one draws is that the dogma lives loudly within you. That is of concern. Reporter Judiciary Committee chairman Lindsey Graham has set Supreme Court confirmation hearings to begin in just two weeks. So who is Amy Coney Barrett and what does her record tell us about what she might be like on the high court john adams was a clerk for judge barrett in 2017 and 2018 and is now in private practice in chicago. Victoria nurse is a georgetown law professor and was chief counsel to joe biden when he was Vice President. Welcome to you both. Let me start with you, john. In the next couple weeks we will hear a lot about judge barretts judicial philosophy, here her legal writings and academic writings dissected, but you can tell us something that will not come through that. What is she like as a person and as a boss when you clerked for her . Professor barrett, when i first met her, then judge barrett, was an amazing boss. It has been downhill ever since im not able to spend time with her on a daytoday basis. Shes unfailingly kind, shes courageous, and shes fair. Shes also someone with an unrheingold unrivaled sense of humanity, humility, and humor, given all the tremendous responsibilities and accomplishments she possesses. She is a principal jurist who will put the rule of law before personal preference or public pressure she may receive. Reporter on saturday night when she said Justice Scalia has judicial philosophy is her judicial philosophy, explain that, and how does it show itself when she approaches a case . In two facets, she explained the impact Justice Scalia head on her. She said she is an originalist. Originalists belie the meaning of the law is fixed at the time it is ratified. The original meaning, the ordinary meaning of the law is what controls, if it is concern discernible and shes also a textual list, she believes she is confined by the words duly enacted by the legislature. Reporter you said that you have a challenge or a question to the ea of textual interpretation in a justice on the Supreme Court. What is your objection or whats your problem with it . Well, it sounds really, you know, banal and obvious that you follow the rule of law. It is kind of what Justice Scalia would say, a wolf in sheeps clothing. Justice scalia wrote a book called reading law, and i wrote a book called misreading law, because what happens is not these fine statements that john is said and judge barrett. Ive known her and debated her as a law professor, as a fine woman. But i have to tell you, the philosophy is not so fine and its not so nice for the American People. Why . Look at the health care cases. You dont have to believe me. One of them went up there for what i have argued is a single word that was wrong in the statute. That is an antidemocratic way of looking at statutes. Shes got answers that you will hear at the hearing, but i fundamentally believe if you look at what Justice Scalia has done, and she has adopted his views on reading law, you will see that he reads selectively. Reporter john, i want to ask you to of a sleeve respond to what professor nurse said, but also get your take on how you think, if judge barrett is confirmed, how Justice Barrett would change the direction of the court, taking this big ideological shift from Justice Ginsburg to a potential Justice Barrett. Well, john, let me begin by responding to professor nurse. Textualism, as Justice Kagan has famously said, we are all textualists now, textualism allows judges to follow the words of the statute duly enacted by the legislature instead of searching for unknown purposes that could have been behind the legislatures minds or in tents. Intent. And in my view, textualism supports consistency and predictability in the law. It also prevents judges from being legislatures from the bench. It also prevents judges from imposing their own views or their own Public Policy preferences into the law because theyre constrained by the words of the statute. They cant go beyond. And professor nurse does bring up the point that there are times when a statute can be ambiguous. But of course, there are canons of construction that can guide a judge to identifying the ordinary meaning of the statute and then neutrally applying the statute to the facts at hand. I think what you would see of a Justice Barrett is the same thing that you would see that we have seen of a judge barrett on the court of appeals and what she has participated in over 600 decisions. She approaches every case with an open mind and a foundational commitment that either side might be right. And s the law and the facts that guide the decision. Reporter professor, nurse, let me ask you the same question about where do you think this this shift on the court . This new justice, if she is confirmed, how would this change the direction and ideology of the court . Well, i have to say, i think that this is going to be the biggest shift since the early 1930s before fdr attempted to pack the court, which i believe was unconstitutional, by the way. I dont support that, but its tremendous, because youll have six votes. Justice scalis philosophy about reading text is not traditional. Is not blackstonian. It doesnt go back to 1787 and its been very hostile to laws and that because it would have, you know, if she voted, as Justice Scalia did in the First Health Care case, she said we uld not have obamacare. There was a second case again, Justice Scalia rewrote that one. So what youre going to see is a continued hostility toward the congress, and this court also loves the presidency. Theyre very interested in what Justice Scalia misquoted the constitution, in my view, when he said that the president has all executive power. Thats not what the constitution says. So i think its a momentous appointment. Unfortunately, i think its going to be mired in a terrible politics. And i hope people will focus, as john and i have, on these theories and what they really mean, not just the sayings they. All lawyers are happy to give you great words about the rule of law and all of that. Look at what people have done with the philosophy, not what they say about it. Reporter because, you know, you talk about this momentous the big moment. Short time before the election, a fundamental shift in the balance of the court. You worked for joe biden not only in the white house, but on the hill when he was on the Judiciary Committee. What were going to hear a lot in these these hearings, what is fair, whats a fair line of inquiry and what do you think is out of bounds or should be out of bounds . Well, i certainly think her children are out of bounds. I think her religious views are out of bounds. You know, when i i was actually nominated to her court, the 7th circuit, i never got a hearing, but my kids were threatened. I think people have to be very careful now. People are so worked up because of the pandemic. And theres just way too much enmity in this. And biden was one who taught me that, you know, i can really enjoy judge barretts company. And we c have a great debate. But i can say i think her views are dangerous. And so i hope that we work hard to focus on the views, stay away from the kids, the personal. Reporter john, you know the judge, she has been placed in this situation not of her own making and even the environment in which her nomination is going to be considered. How do you think shes gonna be able to handle it . John, i think shes going to be able to handle it very well. I dont know. I know judge barrett. She is someone with amazing fortitude, pulleys, and poise , and principal. I think shell carry those same attributes as she goes through this very difficult process. Professor nurse, i agree with you, that the personal is out of bounds. But i respectfully disagree with you that her views are dangerous. She is someone who neutrally applies the law. And you can see that her neutral principles have been respected by the unanimous bipartisan support that she received as a law professor from the notre dame law faculty, as well as her co clerks when she clerked on the United States Supreme Court for Justice Scalia. Every single one of her coclerks for all the justices supported her during her confirmation to the 7th circuit. And its that type of neutral application of law that will make her a great justice. Reporter john adams, victoria nurse, we have to leave it there but i think we got a sense of what we are likely to be going through for the next couple of weeks. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Judy as september comes to a close, a challenging deadline for u. S. Airlines looms. Carriers across the industry are struggling to survive ring the pandemic. Reporter u. S. Airlines received about 25 billion in federal assistance earlier this year as part of the cares act and as part of the deal, airline prominence to not cut jobs but the industry is struggling. Several carriers say they have no choice but to furlough up to 35,000 employees this week unless they get more federal aid. For more on this, i am joined by nick calio, the president and ceo of airlines for america, the trade association for the leading cargo airlines. Welcome back to the newshour and thank you for being with us paired a lot of people say one lot once the airlines have the money in hand, the first chance they got to furlough employees, they took it. Why give them billions more now if they will do the same thing . I would say the facts belie that notion. First of all, the airlines have taken measures to do everything theyan to keep themselves liquid and a float keep employees on the job. Very substantial things, cuts and executive compensation, numbers management, voluntary furloughs, voluntary retirements, going to the private markets to increase liquidity. The first money, 70 grants and 30 loans, went through directly to employees who were kept on the job for very good reasons. We thought that there would be an uptick in travel by this time. Early in the summer, it looked like there would be. Then there was another surge. Airlines are little different than most of the other industries involved. We probably have been the hardest hit number one. But number two, our employees undergo rigorous training, retraining, and recertification all the time. If they leave the job, you cant just bring them back the next day and say, start up your plane. Reporter im confused, though. You said back then you thought Airline Traffic would be back to somewhat normal, something you need to sustain the industry. No Single Health expert we talked to earlier this year thought it would be that way within six months. Who told you that things would be back to normal by then. We did not say back to normal. I said we thought that there would be an uptick, and there was an uptick. We never thought it would get back to normal. In 2019, we were flying record numbers, 2. 5 to two point 8 million passengers and 58,000 tons of cargo every day. We will not reach those levels for a while but we can reach levels that make the industry sustainable and thats what we are hoping for. We thought we would be back to about 50 by the end of the summer. We have not been. At one point, we were down 96 in april. That is a prejet age era number. Now we are running down about 70 below year over year. Reporter you mentioned the record traffic in 2019. I found a headline from august 2019 saying u. S. Air travel demand is booming, will the good times last . If only we knew back then. But its worth mentioning all the Airlines Across the board had record profits, doubledigit operating margins, billions in revenue. A lot of people are wondering, shouldnt the industry have had more of a cushion, more cash reserves to mitigate some of this . If you go back to march 1 and look at the financial conferences that were occurring at the time, a couple weeks before things really got bad, all of the airlines were judged to have for tryst Balance Sheets, designed to withstand an event three times greater than 9 11. That did not happen. We hope it is a onceinalifetime pandemic certainly, but through no fault of our own, the Balance Sheets were wiped out. We had taken all sorts of measures, hired hundreds of thousands of employees, their pay had gone up and pensions went up. A lot of good things were going on. I talked about it being the golden age of air travel. So did jd power. Everybody was flying. It was affordable and accessible like never before. Then the virus arrived and everything changed. Reporter united today announced a deal with pilots saying they would spread the reduced flying time across 13,000 pilots rather than having to furlough 3000. Do think more airlines can come up with Creative Solutions to save those jobs . We are a very resilient industry and if you look at all of our members, they are all creative and doing everything they can to keep employees in place. They understand the human cost of losing your job. Again, it gets back to, you cant take a pilot off the job and bring him back the next day. The same with a flight attendant, the same with the machinists and gate agents because of the safety issues and recertifications. We are trying to keep them on board so that as the recovery happens, the airlines are there to empower the recovery to take people where they want to go, to visit their families, to do their business. Reporter i have to ask you, you have a reputation in washington, d. C. Of being a forceful broker. You know what it is to pull together tough deals. Republicans and democrats have not been able to come together on the next round of funding. Now theres a lot of distraction with the Supreme Court fight weeks before the election. Do you thinkbe able to come togn another funding deal . Im hopeful. Im not necessarily optimistic. Times were different, i guess now. To me it seems where the speaker of the house is coming out in terms of the number and where the president said he would go up to, that is ample ground in the middle. There has to be a compromise. It is not just the Airline Industry. A lot of people are suffering. What happens is when you knock people out of their jobs, they go on unemployment, they are not paying taxes, they are not paying into Social Security or medicare. They are drawing unemployment. They are no longer spending money. That has a ripple effect. In that context, we believe theres not only a political imperative but economic imperative, so im hopeful they can find a deal and there were some bright spots over the weekend. We are working with labor partners, the pilots, flight attendants, are doing everything we can to ask people to get to the table and talk. Reporter that is nick calio, president and ceo of airlines for america. Thank you for your time. Thank you for the time. Judy as election day nears, with voting already underway, the Political Landscape shows no sign of settling down so the perfect ti for politics monday. That means amy walter of the Cook Political Report and host of public radios politics with amy walter. D errin haines. She is the editor at large of the 19th. Its a nonprofit and nonpartisan newsroom reporting on the intersection of gender and politics. Tamara keith is away. Hello to both of you amy, this story about the president s taxes, reportedly he paid very little on a lot of income. He says its all fake news. You are telling us, hey, another day of donald trump at the center of the news. What are you thinking about this . Yes, another day of donald trump at the center of the news is not always a very good thing for donald trump. This is a president who is sitting somewhere around 42 or 43 in terms of his overall job approval and the focus continues to be on things that arent really great for him, whether it is his handling of the covid pandemic or in this case, still controversies swirling around his tas. This is not new information. This has been out there for quite some time. Some of the data is definitely new and groundbreaking, but in terms of voter perceptions, i dont know if it changes anything. What it does do is it keeps the focus on donald trump instead of on other things donald trump would like to be talking about, namely his opponent and shortcomings of his opponent. Clearly, thiss a time the president , behind in the polls, low approval ratings, needs to be on offense. He cant afford to be on his back foot right now but thats where he is. Judy so how are you looking at this . It is a day of focus on the president. It is not a day we are talking about joe biden and not particularly great news even though the president says it is all fake. You are right. Aside from the specific issue of his taxes, because the majority of americans are certainly not tax attorneys, but unlike russia or the ukraine, those conversations, the issue of taxes is something that is literally a Kitchen Table issue for millions in the country who are taxpayers. The surface level just of the story is something that they are able to understand even if they dont have time to digest the thorough reporting of the New York Times. The other thing aside from the specific issue of taxes is this hit song a recurring theme, the idea that the president has misled americans about who he is. He has portrayed himself to voters as somebody other than who he is. Rich and successful, but most of all to his supporters, somebody like you. Most americans are paying way more than 750 in their federal income tax. I think that is kind of disconnected from the nartive that he pushes to people. Whether or not for his supporters it will be enough like one story, even though they said there would be more reporting, whether one story is enough of a counterweight to his years in public life, his many seasons on the apprentice and for years in office given what they voted for, that is unclear, but it is almost certainly going to be among the first questions in this debate. It is a thing that is going to be in the conversation for voters to think about as they are already voting in states across the country. Judy and i do want to ask about the debate in a moment. I want to come back to something the president im sure that he was hoping would be a positive for him, that is his choice of judge Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court to fill the Ruth Bader Ginsburg seat. Is this something that is likely to excite his conservative base, when him win him the votes of women, which we see the president is trailing joe biden, or could it have the opposite effect and energize more the democrats . You are right. This is the day we were supposed to be talking about a successful rollout for the president this weekend of his Supreme Court nominee. This would be his third appointee to the Supreme Court. Definitely something he wanted to go into the debates talking about. Of course that has been drowned out. I also do wonder, to your point about who doest excite if it doesnt end up being just a wash it may excite some conservative republicans, but those folks were already on Donald Trumps side. Theres definitely been erosion of support for donald trump among some groups of voters he had won over in 2016. But among those sort of evangelical white voters, that level of support for him, at least what we have seen recently, has been solid in pretty consistent. Instead, what we dont know about is a backlash to this among democrats. Its clear democrats are about as fired up as we have seen the, certainly in recent years. We know we will hit historic turnout. I think at the end of the day what we end up finding out is both sides have incredible turnout. The problem for the president is his base is simply smaller than joe bidens. The other thing we know is every time, over the course of his entire presidency, every time the president has found an issue that motivates his base, they stick together a they are supportive, but we find it doesnt just have an equal reaction among people who dont like him, it has an equal and Even Stronger reaction among the other side. His strong disapproval rating among democrats or those who say they disapprove of the job hes doing as president has always been significantly higher than those who say they love him. Judy errin, what about the people you spoke to in terms of whether this does the president more harm than good . There are certainly democratic women, black women, who were thrilled at the prospect of a joe Biden Victory equaling a black woman finally being the next person to be nominated and possibly confirm to the Supreme Court. So they are very energized. They were already mivated to voten this election about the issue of systemic racism, the pandemic, and other issues. But the Supreme Court is definitely something im hearing is also very much on the ballot for them. Th bader ginsburg, her legacy is looming large for democratic women. We have seen thpublic grieving for her, which could translate politically at the polls. Early voting already underway and folks are saying they are going to the polls with Justice Ginsburg on their minds as they do that and there are conservative women who are hailing the choice. Maybe not as vocal or visible as the enthusiasm on the other side. Maybe they are celebrating or approving of this choice, even as it may not be kind of the top priority for them when you think about issues like the pandemic, issues like childcare, issues of the economy that may be a little higher on the hierarchy of needs in this kind of chaotic election season that is the intersection of everything. But i do think this has the potential to have an effect on both sides. Judy a little less than a minute. I want each one of you to tell me what you think each man has to do tomorrow night at the debate. Amy. Donald trump s come out on the offensive. We know thats where he likes to be anyway, but a sitting president a month out from an election, coming from behind, he needs to come in early and often and put biden where he has not been often come on his heels. For joe biden, just be steady and project a sense that he has already, being a unity candidate. Judy errin, what does each one have to do . Frankly, President Trump will have to focus on how he has delivered for his supporters and the American People, and joe biden has to focus on how he believed the president has not and how he will do that instead. Judy i have written all this down. [laughter] we will ask you next time what happened. Errin haines, amy walter, thank you both. Cruise Ship Companies are waiting to learn this wednesday from the centers for Disease Control whether their billion dollar vessels can soon set sail again. They have been prohibited from cruising since the start of the pandemic, and hundreds of the luxury floating vessels part hotel, cabar, buffet, and Amusement Park float at anchor and idled. But in britain, these ships cruising to nowhere have become quite the attraction. From weymouth in southern england, special correspondent Malcolm Brabant reports. Reporter for the british, covid signaled goodbye west indies, hello weymouth. Not just for potential passengers, but also the ships themselves. Its a crying shame. Its quite sad to see them all out there knowing people are missing holiys and will they ever get back to normal . Reporter jenny day has come to see a ship that once transported her to the norwegian fjords. Shes anxious to regain her sea legs. For normal working people, we save all year for working,to have your two weeks or three week holiday, and a cruise is just purely. Just pure luxury, and its a luxury that normal working can afford, normally. Reporter 50 miles to the east is a boat in demand. The cruise ships bind is a bos for skipper paul derham. The moral of the story is try to take every opportunity. Reporter normally the mudeford ferry serves an inner coastal waterway, but this summer the so called ghost ships have been an irresistible diversion. We first advertised it when we came out of lockdown. We were a bit sw and i made an announcement to the passengers. Anybody want to go and see any cruise ships that are out in the bay . And a load of hands went up. And weve been inundated with phone calls wanting to see the cruise ships. Reporter derm spent three decades on a cruise ship bridge. The aurora was his last posting. Ive been everywhere from mumbai to melbourne and now im back in mudeford and to see my old ship,it gives a few pangs i ppose. Reporter the pain is far more acute for the worlds 60 cruise when this commercial was shot operators. Last year, a record 30 million passengers were carried on 350 ships, making this a 150 billion global business. Welcome aboard. Reporter before coronavirus struck, the cruise industry was enjoying a boom period. The shipyards couldnt build them fast enou and the industry was really confident about getting new clientele from china and south asia. But now . I think it would be naive not to acknowledge that a couple of companies have gone under during this time, and theres a risk that a couple more may do so. Reporter speaking from belgrade in serbia, captain alex downes, an independent cruise consultant. Its important to note that ships are still be purchased, ships are still being built, contracts are being signed and i think thats a real indicator that the cruise industry has a lot of self confidence in its ability to restart. Reporter there were small steps in italy last month, as passengers boarded a ship for the First Time Since lockdown after the government lifted its ban on cruising. This ship didnt stray beyond italian waters. In hungary, cruises along the river danube has resumed. This cruises at three quarters capacity and cleaning protocols on board have been intensified. Kilian weber from switzerland was one of the first aboard. I dont think they booked the boat fully. I think theres still some cabins that they left open so that its safer and then we have to wear masks when moving so it seems like its a safe experience. Reporter when the pandemic began, cruise ships earned the reputation as incubators for the disease. Nevertheless, on the mudeford ferry, enthusiasm for cruising was abundant. Now ive seen these ships its given me the inspiration to try that type of thing once the pandemic is over. Reporter Louise Gallagher works in Britains National health service, and is hyper conscious of the risks. Personally, i dont fear the virus so much because i think i would probably only receive minor symptoms, but i am worried what i may pass on to others, more vulnerable people. Reporter jody carter drove 200 miles just to catch a glimpse of the ship that gave her such a memorable holiday five years ago. I just hope that something happens soon that makes them be able to go again because no passengers get the experience and joy that i got out of it. Reporter american operators are hoping that the centre for Disease Control will lift the ban on cruising. Theyre promising to improve hygiene and to test all passengers and crew before boarding. Other measures are inevitable , says alex downes. On existing ships, we will see some modifications much like we see ashore with regards to social distancing and barriers. Reporter not everyone swns about cruising. The ost ships have upset environmentalists concerned about emissions, damage to the sea bed, andight pollution at night. Perhaps they should do cruises to nowhere. I can see countries dont want 2000 people walking down their high street whove come from wherever. Perhaps they could do cruises to noegian fjords and not actually land anywhere. Reporter but cruising still has an allure for the skipper. I think id like to split my time halfway between the mudeford ferry and have the winter on the aurora in somewhere warm. That would be ideal. Reporter given the ghost ships uncertain future, that remains something of a fantasy. For the pbs newshour, i am Malcolm Brabant in poole bay. Judy malcolm always finds these fascinating stories. And on the newshour tomorrow, online join us tomorrow for , special coverage of the first president ial debate between President Donald Trump and former Vice President joe biden. You can read more about all of the ways to watch and participate on our website, thats s. Org newshour. And that is the newshour for tonight. Im Judy Woodruff. Join us online and again here tomorrow evening. For all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you, please stay safe and see you soon. Major funding for the newshour has been provided by. Cfo. Caregiver. Eclipse chaser. A Raymond James Financial Advisor taylors advice to help you live your life. Life well planned. Johnson johnson. Consumer cellular. Bnsf railway. The candida fund, committed to add advancing Restorative Justice and meaningful work through it essmans and transformative leaders and ideals. More at candidafund. Org. The Alfred P Sloan foundation. Driven by the promise of great ideas. Supported by the john dee and Catherine T Macarthur foundation, committed to building a more just, verdant, and peaceful world. And with the ongoing support of these institutions. This program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. This is pbs newshour west from weta studios in washington and the Walter Cronkite school of journalism at Arizona State university. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. ] today on cooks country, christie makes bridget a new recipe for shashlikstyle beef kebabs. Jack challenges bridget to a tasting of cumin, and bryan makes julia the ultimate adjaruli khachapuri