By charles r. Sy wab and senator Bernie Sanders, welcome to firg line. My pleasure. Id like to ask you about new reporting that has come on from bob woodward, that presidayt trump down the seriousness of covid19 and deliberatelyed mi the American People back at the beginning of the winter. Sos not to quote create panic. Your reaction, sir. Theres nothing that any e can tell me about donald trump frankly that would shock me. He lies all the time. And i want you to i knownt say this about conservatives in general, weve got a lot of honest cove stivs out there trump is a pathological lial trump wsay, in my view, say or do anything to get reelected. In terms of the pandemic, Everybody Knows that he country, that he has been at war with the scientific cty, and that is one of a dozen defeatewhy he must be this november. Every americans life has en altered by the pandemic, and you talk about your desire onto build an y and a government that will work for all of us, not just the 1 . Thats what isa. How are americans, particularly working americans, doing today . Thank you for asking that question. And the honest tnswer isyre doing terribly. And thats not Bernie Sanders talking. That is what the facts are. Before tem pahalf of our people were living paycheck to paycheck. And i trust Everybody Knows what th means. That means you need that pay the rent and buy the food. Well, margaret, what happens when thohecks stop, cease to come, because youre lied off . And you may laid off . And you may lose your Health Insurance . So where we are right now is in ali situation where ms of people have lost their job, many of them have lost their health care, they cant go to the doctor today if theyre sick, their kids cant go, they arewo ied about being evicted from their homes, and let us be host, there are many, many families in America Today who haveo food in the refrigerate, in order to feed theirs. K thats where we are. It is a disaster. And we need the United States congress to step uo e plate, and act boldly, in order to protect thoseorking families. Senator, why then are there so many working families who support donald trump . Well, thats a great question. That is a very good question. And i think the reaso is several, several reasons for it. I happeno think that what trump has done is played on believe that the success of to trump with working class familiesotas ao do with the failure of theemratic party to speak to them. Erd i think that over a, you know, u fdr and harry truman, generally speaking, what you had was the Democratic Party was the pf the working class of america. Thats it. I dont think anyone would disagree withthat. But what happened over a number of years, i think a lot having to do with democrats chasing corporate finance, and campaign contributions, that the Democratic Party kind of turned its back in many respects on working people. The trade policies in my view were a disaster. It cost us millions of jobs. We havent raised the minimum wage to the degree that. We shou we are the only major country on earth t notguarantee health care to all people as a human right. Et cetera, et cetera. And i think a lot of workers looked out there and they said u know, im ay ry, life is going nowhere in a hurry, my kids are going to do worse than i did, the democrats havent done it, well, maybe its the immigrants who are at fault, maybe it is people of cor who are at fault, and ill turn my anger on those people. So i think thats one of the reasons. Trump has played on the anger American People. Ion of the and they are angry and they are frustrated. But instead of looking at wall street and itead of looking at the drug compaes, instead of looking at the insurance companies, he has turd us on each other. Its not a new strategy. Its what dagogues use all over the world. Youre supporting joe biden for presiden and the number one reason you give as you ral your supporters is that it is imperative forra dem to defeat donald trump. How confident are you that joe biden will defeat President Trump in november . Well, id say its not just imperative that democrats defeat trump, it is imperative that the American People do. You are confident hell win . I think that, well, that takes us into a whole other subjt, but ihink there is a strong chance that he, he will win. Am i here absolutely to say this is a slam dunk, no chance that he will lose . That is not what im saying. But i think that, with the biden mpaign, what they got to do is not only continue to attack the someone i conside to be the most dangerous president in the history of this otcountry, you to do that, but you got to give people an alternative or reason to vote for you other than saying im not donald trump ana means speaking about an Economic Program which biden has. Not as strong as i would like it. It is not theanerniers program. Despite what trump wl tell you. Will improve life of the many millions ofeople. Senator sanders, somebody who has supported you for a very long time, micha, moo the famous film maker who correctly predicted in 2016 that trump would win the election, and he was on this program back in january, where he told me trump could n reelection, and very recently, within the last few weeks, he has posted on facebook that the support for donald trump right now is quote off the charts. Now, you know michigan well. You had a surprise tictoryre and should democrats be nervous about michigan . Democrats shoulde nervous about michigan and wisconsin and pennsyania. What the polling is showing today is that biden is in the lead in those battlegroundst es. Better than i would have thought in florida. But i think my point was that the enthusiasm is with trump, t with ben. Now the truth is, when you cast your ballot, it doesnt matter if youre enthusiastic or not, it counts as one vote. But what we have got to do is gin up the enthusiasm by talking about what biden will do for working families in america, and do a better job in e tosing the working class of this country the degree to whichas trump sold them out and in fact, is a fre d. Letint to you some of the comments you made at the Convention Last m ath. Lets ta look. Our campaign ended several months ago. But our movement continues. And it is getting stronger every day. Many of e ideas we fought for, that just a few years ago were considered radical, are nowam mainst but let us be clear, if donald trump is reelected, all the progress we have made will be in jeopardy. Which ideas . That sounds like me. Going from radical yeah, which idea has gone from radical to mainstream . Let me give you an. Examp five years ago or so, democrats were talking about raisi the minimum wage to 10. 20, maybe a few talked about 12 an hour. W, 15 an hour is not, not only is it mainstream, seven states have passed the 15 an hour minimum wage. I rememberi talked about it, a trillion dolr infrastructure program. Oh, bernie, that is crazy, that is too much. Mon well, even donald trump talks about a trillion right now. People underand that our infrastructure, our roads, bridge, water systems, waste wateriplants would put Affordable Housing in ther is in deplorable condition. And that we need and can create millions of jobs by rebuig our infrastructure. Health care, okay, five years ago, nobody, virtually nobody was talking about medicare for all. We were talking about protecting the Affordable Care act, improving the Affordable Care act, i suspect the olling out there will now show a majority s the americans understand that health care cannply be a job benefit, its got to be a human rliht. Making p colleges and universities tuitionfree, radical idea a few years ago, implemented today. On and on. So let me ask you then, why is the 2020 dnc platform reflect some o these sort of pillars as the Progressive Movement . The Green New Deal and medicare for all were not included in the party platform, and that was a real dea breaker for many, many of the delegates about. A quarter of the delegates voted against thenc platform, including some of your surrogates, including representative rashida talib, and rho khanna what does that say about the future of progress party. Atic bidens it is not a great secret that joe biden is far more conservative than im. Jot biden does believe in medicare for all. I do. I believe in the Green New Deal. Joe does not. But what i would say, if you look at his health care prs ram, it pretty strong program. He is prepared to taketh o greed and the collusion of the ndustry, andal make sure that americans are not forced to pay by far the highesi pricthe world for prescription drugs. Thats pretty good. He wants to lowerge t of medicare eligibility, from 65 where it is tay down 60. Needless to say, i would include everybody, but thats a step forwar so look, it is no secret, i ran againsjoe biden. He is more conservative than i am. And the platform that he i suppor not the platform that i would have written. On the other hand, as you know, we had a number of task forces from his campaign, my campaign, came together, and what we have now is a series of programs on i the majorues facing this country, which i think if implemented, if implemented, and i will do my best to make sure they are implemented, would in fact make biden perhaps the mose prive president since fdr. So do you truly trust that joe bide will be a champion o the progressive agenda, if he is elected and democrats take the senate . Do i trust that joewi biden do what he said he will do . Yes. Biden will raise that minimum you know, i k lot of people and maybe 100,000, 150, rogram 200,000 a year, 15 an hour, what doe that mean . Let me tell you what it means. It is a shred of dignity for the 40 Million People who get a pay raise. Is a big deal. Universal prek. It is a big deal. Its a big deal for working e. Families. So again, bidens views are not mine. My program was much mo progressive. But he has a strong program, and i think hes got to bo ater job in getting it out, to be honest with you. There are manyupporters of yours, senator sanders, who ttually feel that the establishment of Democratic Party is in more trouble in, itself. E Republican Party what do you say . What i would say, and i would say this, by the way as the longest serving independent in the history of the United States congress, we are in an unprecedented moment i american history. And were not just having a debate over alth care or climate change, or womens rights, or. Educati what this campaign is about is whether or not, and i say ts th foreboden in my heart, Democratic Society. Emaia because this president toy does not believe in democracy, does not believe in the rule of law, or does not in facthe belie in constitution of the United States. So i would hope thathile people will have strong disagreements with biden, i do, for the , put that aside, thats what in a sense Coalition Politics is about,omou together, for a common goal, the goal is to defeat trump. After that, were going to fight it out, as to the future of the Democratic Party and the future but well do that within the context of a Democratic Society and u. S. Constitution. There are still sanders suppters who are not persuaded. Because they feel like they are abdicated a progressive agenda. I hope and i know that most progressives are politally sophisticated. And that is, we take things one step at a time. And the first step that we have to take, and i said that, you know, you put up an excerpt of my speech at the democrati convention, i will work with conservatives. There are conservative thpublicans who understan trump is a threat to american democracy. I will work with them. K ill wth independents. I will work with anybody who understands what a threat to the society trumps. But the day after, we come out swinging, for oda agand we fight for that agenda, and i believe were going to win that i am v impressed and delighted with the success that we have d in elections all over this countr not only winning reelection for the the socalled squad members, by landslide victories but ecting new and strong progressives, in missouri, with corey bush, jamal bowman in new york, and othd im feeling positive about the future and we will rally the American People is biden in some ways a better candidate for your voters and for working americans than Hillary Clinton was . You know, i dont want to get into persolities. But i think, you know, hillary hit a negative nerve if you like i think what most people see in true. Lutely what is and that is he is a very decent guy. You may disagree with him on the war in iraq, you may disagree with him on health care, but he is a compassionate empathetic and decent human being a i think anybody who knows him, and i do, will tell you that. You are very p with young people. So what do you tell them if c ty say tht vote for joe biden . I tell them they should vote for joe bideny and m them are. Example, understands that it is imperative that we beat donald trump. Let me show you this clip from a recent speec joe biden just gave. Take a look. I want to make it absolutely clear, i want to beal clear abo of this, rioting is not protesting, looting is not protesting, setting fires is not protesting. None of this is protesting. Its lawlessness. Plain and simple. This ection has taken a turn to focusing on law and order. Is that the message that joe biden needs to deliver in order to win . Well, i find it interesting, obously, this is trumps mantra, and this is a president who is running the most corrupt administrations probably in the history of theountry, where i believe seven of his, i could be wrong, six or seven of his key Campaign Advisers have already been indicted for one thg or another, but what the Vice President just said is true, we have got to be extremely, extremely strong and focused on endiystemic racism in this country. And for, to make sure that we tackle a racist and broken criminal justice system. We need real police fo. But burning down buildings, to my mind, has nothing to do with the fight for racial justice. You seem to be alarmed senator, in which a scenario in which Vice President biden wins trump refuses to leave the white house. You said, quote, what we have got too in the next two months is to alert the American People about what that nightmarish scenario mighosma look like and what would happen with that possibility and talk about what happen. Do if that would talk us through what that nightmarish scenario would look like. Here is the way i see it. You will recall that after he won the Electoral College in 2016, you remember what trump said as to why he did not win the popular vote, he lost the there are millions of people who voted illegally, there is nobody who agrees with him, nobody, total absolute lie. W on Chris Wallace show on Fox Television and chris asked him in so many words, you may lose, if you lose the election, are you gng to leave, he snt clear about saying of course im going to leave if i lose, he wasnt clear about that. Just today. There were 1fe dnt polls, trump was behind in every single one ofheem some of ere close. He was behind. And yet he has been saying recently, the only way we can lose this election is ifre t is fraud. What does that tell yo iabout what hentions might be . You want the nightmare scenario . Heres the nightmare scenario. Democrats according to studies, will win by mailin ballots in much greater numberness that republicans. So what could hpen is at 9 00 or 10 00 on election night, trump wille aad in a number of battleground states. And trump will then get on television, and say, look at the results, thank you, america, i won, athe way, we now know people have toe, i just heard this on fox, where Somebody Just wrote me and said massive voter fraud all over america, we will kl those mailin ballots, i won, thank you very much. Days later, the mailin ballots come in in pennsylvania and other states and it turns out trump lost those battleground state, lost the lectoral college. Thats the nightmare scenario. If President Trump refuses to well, then we are probably in the worst constitutional crisis in the history of this country. And i would hope on this one, margaret, and i say this very sincerely, that i know everybody who watches this doesnt agree with me on every issue, maybe not even on most issues, but i would hope thathere would be a coming together of progressives, of moderates of conservatives, and there are some conservatives out will who say you know what, i may agree with trump on this orhat policy but i happen to believe in the constitution and the rule of law and weve got to bring all elements of American Society together, including the business community, and say, yow hat, lets have, we will have a fierce debate about the future of tamerica, but will be done within the framework of a democratic rule of law society. And i think when we bring those people together, we can force trt, no matter what his wishes may be. You have said that everything, you will do everything you can tcto e Vice President biden, and the next day well, maybe two day margaret. We will take a break with that. Maybe two days. But what does that lookike . What do you begin to do . Good question. And what it looks like is ts. I think it is fair to say that the working classf this country has not been in the kind of desperate shape they are today, probably since the great depression. What i am going to fight for is a 100day agenda. Now, Newt Gingrich would be surprised if i mention this, but what he did is he put together a broad agenda, representing his right wing views, and he pushed that through the congress. I was there. Voting morning, noon, and night. Thats what he did. That is exacy what the democrats are going to have to do right now. In 100 days, were going to move to guarantee health care for all people, raise the minimumage a living wage, effectively tackle climate change, and racial justice, and you name the issue, but its not something we can be talking about for the next five years. We g to move aggressively, because people are hurting right now. Have to take on this issue of massive income and wealth inequality. It is not acceptable to me and i think the vast majority of americans that three people in america own more wealth than about half of our country and 45 of all new income goes to the top 1 . That has got to end. At has got to end. Ilwe cannot have chdren going hungry, people sleeping out on the strplts and pmaking unbelievable amounts of money. You know, in the original incarnation of this program, by william s. Buckley jr. And in 1968, he hosted frank hallstead, the socialist Workers Party candidate for president. I would like to play you just a little clip of that interview why didnt you head the Democratic Party, like mccarthy and declare yourself a democrat and head of the social lift party and win . Ha that ever occurred to you . [ laughter ] has that ever occurred to cau . See youre thinking about that. We are given that adviced ad infinitum by every liberal we come across. And we explain to them, ano we explainem that the Democratic Party is not a socialist party. And its controlled by the capitalists and its not goiol to be cond by any other way, and mccarthy is a capitalist, or supports that policy, d if he didnt, he wouldnt get anywhere in the Democratic Party. A moment in time, but is the Democratic Party essentially a capitalist party . Look, the democratic democratic socialists . You are assuming that there is a rigidity there that cant be changed. If your question is orhas, many, many year, the Democratic Party received an enormous amount of funding from some of corporations in this country . Yes. Have ty stood up for working people effectively . No, they have not. But things change. And when we are seeing all over thisountry the election of strong progressives, and when we are seeing the Democratic Party become ideologically, in my view a more progressive party, i think things are changing, and thats what we have to do. And yet, its President Trump who tn says that joe biden will just be a puppet of the radical left. Unfortunately, it is not. Case. Look, we have strong representation inon theess. I would hope that joe will support, you know, the progressive community, it is an important part of the democrac community, Democratic Party, and i would hope that we will have strongve progres running major agencies in this country. Bir but woing have to rally e American People. Were going to have to have this national debate. Am absolutely, absolutely have always been of the belief that the currents healtcare system is dysfunctional cruel and immoral. I will fight for medicare for all. Will win . I think i will. Not tomorrow. Maybe it will take us a few years. We are going to win that fight. And we are going to win th fight to make public colleges and universities tuition free. And were g tng to w fight for equal pay for equal work and criminal justice re immigration. I think were going to win those fights but were going to win it in theti democ way by rallying the American People and putting pressure on elected officials. Senator sanders, thank you for your time, and f thank you joining me on firing line. Thank you for having me. Firing line, with margaret hoover, is made possible in part by charles r. Schwab. And by Corporate Funding is provided by stephens inc. Hello, everyone, and welcome to amanpour co. Heres whats coming up. This 9 11 anniversary, the u. S. 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