Additional funding is ovided by. Corporate funding is provided by. Sean penn, welcome to firing line. Thanks very much. Good to be here. You are a twotimed academy awnning actor, a direct and author. And you ve been invoed in humanitarianelief work now for more than a decade. Saw you making rescues yourself in new orans during hurricane katrina. And you spent months in haiti after that devastating earthquake in 20. Called community organizedprofit relief effort right there on your shirt, core, which is on the front lines of the current covid19 pandemic. Ani am grateful that you are joining me. Good to be here. Listen, did you ever in your ldest imagination thk that you would be administeringr humanitariief aid in your own hometown, los angeles, california . No, not at all. Its a real adjustment to make psychogically. When were working overseas, and particularly in what are typically considered thirdworld countries, and you get a text m from a friend, you just immediately say n the field, will call back later. To consider being in your own hometown and thinking of that as in the field is a very it is an odd paradigm shift. So, your organization, core, has decided to focus on testing anyoure on the front lines offering free drethrough testing to the countrys most vulnerable populations. First, how did you focus on testing . Why did you pick that ea to focus on . The morning that w covid19 and knew that i had and i had great peoplestructure in disaster response. We had worked througher the chepidemic in haiti as well as postearthquake and had some relatiohip to Infectious Disease in that sense. So we went to the governor, to Governor Newsom in california and said hey, youve got a team here. Is there a gap we can help fill . G ded us to mayor Eric Garcetti in los angeles, who with the los angelesre epartment, had already set up a very good testing system. But the problem was that on all their test sites in los angeles, it was manned by 20 to 25 firefighters, which meant that thoseou firefighters not be in the field and responding with their paramedic corps, with their brushfire corps and all of that. So we were able to go in, get trained up by th and then build trainers out of our own people and be able to start recruit. And so its something that we a wee to take off the hands of the fire department, because anybody whos gotten a little bit of will and a litt bit of thought is able to learn how to animate the testing aspect of it. T you starts drivethrough testing on march 30th in los angeles and e now managing testing sites in five states and are expanding to several others, incling navajo nation. You were in chicago just this week with the mayor of chicago. How many tests have you administeredow . Im going to be guessing because i might be in the weeds that. Im more in the field these days. I think about a quarteion. It seems like the key to your collaboration or the key to ur core effort, the strategy, is to build partnerships in oer to fill gaps. Absolutely. And its partnerships. Initially, the one thing that we hope will be replicated by other groups with other local governments, municilities, whether on a state or local level, the way that were going to make a real impact is not so much of our 250,000 tests to date to whatever that number actually is. Buthe replicability of this kind of match between government and an ngo or Community Organization on whatever scale that theyre able to do. Its the way that i believe the whole country can get tested when these disasters hpen. You know, i think president obama recently used the analogy about pulling the veil back. Well, it not only pulling the veil back on those things that might be criticized in government. You pull back the veil onn governmentneral, and youre going to find that, yes, all of the big tools are there, but they are not there to the scale that would allow, for example, mass testing. You dont have the Human Resources when it comes to Contact Tracing one of the difficulties in using the National Guard is, you know, a lot of people are not going to be very cooperative with information if its a mana in uniform oman in uniform knocking on their door saying, who have you been around lely . So being cocitizens in that way, working with groupsio like the nl guard, those things are very important. So its really about being willing to have faith in each other and go in. And when you come to a cityr or statecality that has political leadership,th embraces it and takes the ap of faith, you do see an awful t of magic happen. Two things one, are there local municipalities do you find that theyre eager to work with you . And are there states you know, most municipalities are blue areas, rit . You know, cities tend to be more liberal. What about red citie or, you know, more some ah the more conservative places . Im thinking okloma city or jacksonville, florida. Have you thought about expanding into those places . E wl, worked in in what i would say, friendly and unfriendly eironments. Within any unfriendly environment, you wil some people in leadership. For example, we work in atlanta, georgia. Mayor botts has been great and suprtive. I think she just genuinely has concern for her constituents. E, you have a governor whos on a planeunknown to me. So, yes, there s it ilittle more difficult in those circumstances. But the bottom line is that it is, you kno any thinking person knows this isnt about im not in the opening of the economy or not openi of economy business. Theres no reason for me to distract myself with, you know, with a shared opinion about the opening aspect of it. What is certain to me is that testing is a partnership and its not borde states. We should all be getting tested. Surveillce is a big part of it so that we start to understand this virus, but also so those families that would otherwise be affected by someone who testsositive, that person can be isolated. I think we should all wear masks, whether we are red, blue or parading in the streets, if only as a sign of solidarityi these hospital workers who have put themselves on behalf of other human beings and in the line of duty they have. What we can do is put it on just to say i salute you. Thats all we have to do. If we can get to the place as much as we need to, what does that look like . Is that every american can get sted as much as once or twice a week . Yeah, thats what i see,he important thing that Everyone Needs to know about the pcr is theyre diagnostic tests, meaning were not talking about the serology antibody tests. Were not in the serology test business this stage. All we do is the diagnostic positive or youre negative. The test result is as reliable as the isolation y th give yourself between testing and result. Anybody can pick iup in between. Are diligent, if t if people get tested twice a week and its absoluty not only possible, we as a country could and a test doesnt take long. Its a snap. What about people who aret nervous abtting tested . There are people who are reluctant still. What do you say to them . Again, theyve got k hard at the people they love and make that decisiont and get past tar. Id like to show you something President Trump said about testing just recently. Let me show you what he said and get your reaction on the back end. What weve done on testing weve now tested more th the entire world put together, the entire world put together. We have many more testsan hey do and better tests. And the reason we have more cases isecause we have more testing. We actually have not conducted more tests than the whole world, put togeththough we have compted more raw tests than any other individual country. You know, its widely acknowledged that the federal government was behind the ball and botched the initial phases of testing. Federal government response on testing . It goes without sayings that none ofe clear. If there is a national strategy, none and federal guidelines, as itre tes from social distancing to testing to every other aspect of procurement and manufacturing of ppe. You know that the president said it, i would part ways that knowing what nse on the ground and talking to people because we use mostf the work we do is in very marginalized when those people, be they white, black, brown, anywhere ithe country, see that they have an opportunity to be tested twice a week, thats when will feel like a success. It doesnto me much good to get into talking about the white house. Its going to be our failure as a country, as citizens if we dot, between advocating in our own ways for that production, et cetera, and to follow this up, weve put out, with core, a manual. Its a kind of idiots guideite. To setting up test sites. Its not a complicatedth g to do. You need the ppe, you need the testing, you need a lab relationship. That can be that can happen all over this country. And the success ll be when every american has the opportunity to be tested twice a week. And the more americans that opt in on that program, the sooner this things there are a lot of people who dont want to get tested twice a week. They dont want to wear a mask. K what do you th about incentivizing them to in some way . Maybe either tying itne toloyment benefits, tying it to ppp payments, the Small Business loans program. Do you think people just dot through the goodness of their own hearts, if theyre, as you said, looking at their own family, is there way to mandate it or encourage it . The first thought is, is that its aut leadership. This is the idea its not only the United States. Every part of the world is doing their own thing on this. And some of themng more interesnd successful ways than others. But nobody nobodys bulletproof. And i think it really i dont see and if it has to be leadership in the state, then so be it. Of the United States,ent whatever conflict i may have, if and im not suggesting this could happen or not, but the incredible legacy thate would have, no matter whats happened, no matter how horribleai cethings may appear and be for certain families across this country already, if hdid attack this in a way that mod forward quickly to where people could be tested twice a week, where the Scientific Community could have the the surveillance that they need, i really believe that that this that openg this economy will happen sooner this is, at ry least, a mandatory rehearsal that this country has to havean to underpreparedness, to understand solidarity, to understd how to groupge er and take these things on, whetheits a pandemic,y a dimb, a hurricane or all the other things a th coming our way. This could be a great bonding mome. I just encourage the president and all the governors you know, im spoiled because i come from a ate that has done that. And that doesnt make our state bulletproof. But we are blessed to have Governor Newsom and mayogarcetti because they really have been as much as possible within the complexity of political position, doing an extraordinary job. And now im in new york city where i think that, if theres another governor that i would be excited work with, it would certainly be governor cuomo. You sound a lot less paisan now than people think of you in the past, because, you know, i presume its cause youre in the trenches. You want to get ings done, and the politics maybe arent forefront of mind. Te you tw. Yeah, i think i got a little bit tired of myself believing that my dinner tab passion conversations were translating or being productiv and ive always had great relationships with people of varying opinions. Ive had bitter arguments. Sometimes that has to do with my own travels, the way the lens through which ive seen the world may be different from other peoe. But, you know, in humility, i am also just what the hell is going on . We better work together, in all aspects this, but covid19, we have a duty to make this a silver lining. We all think about the various Silver Linings possible every day. We have to to keep ourselvesme at sane. But there are so many possibilities of that. And its really the only way were going to honor these tens of thousands of people that have died from this thing whwere who were here with us grandparents, fathers, mothers, et cera. Even some children. They were just here with us alive a minute ago. An now we imagine them piled up like wood in the rain. And the only way that they get an honorable pass if we commit ourselves to the Silver Linings. How do younderstand how partisan every element of this pandemic has become . Even the debate abouening . I mean, last weekwe ther protesters in orange county, just south of los angeles, your home be protesting the beach closures. The president is criticizing it seems like every aspectim. Of this cant be removed from the partisanshi how do you think about that . Well, what we see,nc as i said, pally in qui marginalized areas, is that the the larger number of peoplest who are the ulnerable and the most without and who have been before this covid19,ey re the ones who are largely most concerned about opening too fast, and i do find it upsetting to see that people who have large groups of people who have never known any oppression or going without of any kind suddenly on their own behalf are saying, free me, free me, free me witho real concern. But the part of that i can be empathetic to because living in arantine is not something anybody expected to do. I just thi we are in too much of a rush and too many people who are the haves are magng the argument for open without listening to those who dont have the same access to healthcare and what thats going toean for their famili if this thing goes wrong. Yo but why du think that why do you think theres a rush to get back . Do you think its politically driven . The economy . Its just all about well, i think theres been so much misinformation that people are fatigued where they would be otherwise inspired. Ne you know, itsf those times where you got to look the country in the eye and say,ctually, we have to srifice completely. We cant do it halfway. And if we do that together, we can make all th go much quicker m and mue effectively and save a lot of lives. But do you think that we havdone what you just sai have stepped up to meet the moment i dont mean necessarily our political leadership. Maybe some hmae. E some havent. But the American People have basically took the guidance and went home and flattenethe curve. Largelyhats true. But the guidance has been chaotic. And so we you know, yes, its in the American People to stand up. That im seein i seit with our volunteers and weve got 450 of them in their own neighborhoods working, doinghis stuff for their own communit so are americans willing to step up . Yes. You go to the stores you see some diligence. , you also su know, the wiring that it takesea toy do this right has to again be hammered into usnl when we goe, when we read our newspapers, when we watch the news on television. Weve got to have a streamline thing because its hard every day to realize where your hand goes, what it touches, how far f away you am people. What is the air and the aerosol . What did thetell me yesterday different from today . What part of it is common sensen i think common sense is another level of step up we still have not fully grasped in a harmonious way. Youve made a career out of being an activist, being a rabble rouser, maybe earlier in your career, before your humanitarian relief work. Is there any part of you that empathizes with the protesters or feel sympathy for them . Oh, yeah. Well, i would say this. When i see people, you know, doing the unmasked, you know, io kifeels a bit hateful in its demonstration, weapons over shoulders and so on. What i see is people who are scared. And weve got to work on that. Go and wevto care about them asuch as we do anybody else. And i do. You know, i can get infuriated watching that. And thats but that is where we go to leadership. And i thk that we all can see where leadership harnesses the best in america and where it doesnt. How do you think the question of leadehip is going to impact the 2020 election . You know, as of 2016, i just i opt out of this conversation. At up look, what happened is on us. Its on us for whether people are happy with this a administrati those who are desperately unhappy. But, you know, those w wanted someone else in the white house evidently did not work hard engh. D count myself in. They won. Thats thelectoral college. And now its up to america whether theyre going to itreembrace that or chang during the primaries, you youre. Y kimmel, you said that so, in terms of those principles that we stand for, who is going to be a better leader to continue us through covid19 . Is thajoe biden or is that President Trump . I think its some brilliant 25yearoldo got better digital fluency than either of them. And i think, you know, we are in an inverted possession of wisdom these days. You know, et used to be always us i was hoping to into the older, wiser set. T but i look andnk the greater wisdom is in the youth. I thinthat the way to change this country right now is to say, lets take your lead because its their future. And i think that they are o ressed society. Their dreams have been limited by our mistakes and are threatened, certainly. You know, i remember mountain ca, that snow caps that were had been there, you know,d in time rpetuity. And theyre gone now. And you talk aut these things, this climate issue. Covid wont be the existential i threat, but the existential opportunity. I think climate is probablyt the fie. And Nuclear Proliferation is the the other one thatco id be morerned with. But again, yeah, i would lower the age of it. What is itabout 36, 37 you got to be to be president of the United States . 35. Lets take 10, 8, 10 years off of that and well be in business. Is n. Final question. As an artist, as you look at this pandemic, are you findg a deeper meaning or understanding about why wer experiencing this now . Its a nny thing. When i was first in haiti in 2010 after the earthqua, knew a lot of people who i would run into thought i was there to make a movie about it. And it wasnt for years that i actually until i ended up considering what that would look like. And what i thought was that the only way to hit ote human heart of this story is that it coulde a drama. It has to be a farce, likeh, mthat great movie. We knew in our guts, in our hearts, we knew this was going to happen, Something Like this was going to happen. I hink the you know, if i look att through that lens,th like mosgs, until we can make fun of ourselves, we cant grow. So i tnk that that woulbe the presentation that i would go to. When are we going to make fun of ourselves again in the movies . K in are people gonna be b the theaters . Thats an interesting look, i wondered when people were going to be back theater once everything started streaming. Theres a lot of social distancing in th sense beforehand. Already. I hope that we get overbe g digitally connected a bit, realize that we do it does matter to be together, whether its in a Movie Theater when the time is right or not. And biggest hope is that, you know, like what happened after the vietnam war. Mb and lets re, it took 10 years to kill 58,000 americans. It took a few months to kill 90,000 americans in thisne. So this is going to be with us. Anin the aftermath of that war, American Cinema was ints golden age. The greatest americafilms probably of all me were once we had been through th common hard together. And so its my hope that, you know, one of the collateral Silver Linings is wel wanting to go to the theater to see things that connect us and are thoughtful, not only those things that take us outside of our reality. Sean penn, keep doing your good work on and off the screen. Thanks for coming to firing line. Thankou very much. Firing line with Margaret Hoover is made possible by. Additional funding is provided by. Corporate funding is provided by. Youre watching pbs. The people who give the momoneyo make Mister Rogers neighborhood are the people who contribute to this and other Public Television stations and [captiing sponsored by the u. S. Department of education] its a Beautiful Day in this neighborhood a Beautiful Day for a neighbor would you be mine . Could you be mine . Its a neighborly day in this beauty wood