Di Corporate Funding is provided by. Welcome to firing line,g, sheryl sandbnd welcome back to firing line, david miliband. Good to be with you. Thank you for having us. David, you are the president and the ceo of the International Rescue committee, and, sheryl, you are, of course, the chief operating officer of facebook. E and o of you teamed up to write an article entitled a second covid crisis is coming. And the subtitle was, if dont act now, women an girls will be suffering from the pandemics fallo for dades. Sheryl, id like to go to you first. Why did you and david te up to write this oped . Well, every time it exacerbatesrgency, underlying inequality, and vulnerable populations are often hit the hardest, and all over the world, that iwomen and girls. And so when you have a crisis like this, if we dont have t a gender lens s, if we arent focused on preventing genderbased violence increases, which are already happening, and makg sure women and girls get the resources and the servicesd e funds they need, th is going to hit them even harder than everyone else. And thats why david and i are raising our voicesur and makingthat the world i was very keenite that. This article because were living in a time when governments aund the world are in retreat from big global problems. Theyre focusing only on the homefront. Of course, we derstand governments have to take care of their own citizens, but its pure myopia to neglect the global scene. And at a time when governments are in retreat from big, complex global problems, and corporates to ogether to provide some leadership. And thats what id a leadership os. And thats what we are trying to do. Seems to me that evenou men are the most obvious victims of covid19, and its men of color in particular who are dying in the highest rates, it is women that have a different level of vulnerability women and girls that have a differenl of vulnerability to this disease. Can you explain why . Women and girls do the great majority of the worlds work 70 of the worlds caregiving work, they are the majority of the worlds healthcare workers. They earn a verymall fraction of the worlds income, and they own even less of the worlds property. And women and girls have less access to every resource that matters to healthcare, to clean water, to education. N wod girls have less. This is a double emergency. Theres health emergency, in respect of covid,w atntioto that 70 of rlds healthcare workers are women. But its also a social and economicmergency, as well. Thats the double end of the emergen. We know that Domestic Violence is rising. We know that womens incomes are falling precipitously. And we also know that womene are bearing unt of the extra work thats being generated at home. From this cris and so both ends of the emergency require a lens that recognizethe inequalities of powerhat face women and girls around the world. And its a time when this needs to be loudly said, because im afraid, although theres beeoric around this for the last 20 years, theres not enough action. Id like to talk about whats at stake here, because i thinprior to this crisis, david, you said there has been a lot of etoric but not enougaction. Int i think the International Community was felike, in the last 20 years, quite a bit has been done to improve the conditions for women and girls around the world. Di do you do yogree . Well, certainly in the 25 years since the beijing19 conference i, there has been progress, but it remains the case that, on every indicor poverty, education, morbidity women and girls are suffering more. And while there have certainly been progress over the last 25 years, i dont think anyone thinks the progress is good enough. We have 130 milliogirls worldwide who arent in school. You know, 200 Million Girls are victims of genitalutilation. We still have one in three women getting married at very, very young ages, and huge numbers of Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault and abuse all over the w a lot of which gets exacerbated by ts crisis. There are also women and girls having babies. D when we pull maternal healthcare, we know that maternal deaths, child deaths before age 1 and 5 can increase. Saw that with other virus outbreaks. Weve seen that in other emergencsituations. And were going to see that here if we dont really all pay attention. Id like to pick up on two things both of you just mentioned. The first is education, right . To the extent that advancements have been made, in terms of educating rls w around tld, how is that education put at risk in the face of the covid19 pandemic . Girls have less access to education. They are less likely to be in school in the first in the first place when there needs to be mo work done in the home. Lean in, my foundation, has been doing survey work were releasing later is week. Its very clear that women than men and boys. G more so, all over the world, when theres more domest work to be done, girls do that first. And if parents have a choiceep between g a boy and a girl in school, theyll often focus those educational sources on the boy because they think they need to for survival. We also have evidence from previoucrises that when pupils are sent out chool, when schools clos its the girls who dont go back. And theres a time when 90 of the worlds children are not in school, that those girlsdaer who gained from the progress over the last 20 years, for whom ere is an education plac lose their place. For those especiallycts in fragile and conflict states that they dont get the chance to fulfill their educational dreams and never mind their life dreams. They and we cant afford that. The other idea that you all referenced is Sexual Violence and how increases in Sexual Violence become more urgent in the face exrat tleth health pandemic. Plrgaient. Y atwhth i id use the phrase. Exacerbat the International Rescue committee is a global humanitarian organization. So all around the world, were dealing with emergency situations. When the strains and stresses that arise when communities break down because of conflict conflict, one of the partsuse of of the Collateral Damage is increased levels of violence against women. And ve already seen that. There are statistics from china and from france even during this covid crisis, just in the last two months, of rising levels of violenceag nst women in the home in, relatively speaking, in vast industrialized countries. In the places where k, in places where there are a million refugees from myanmar into bangladesh, the risks for women and for girls and , gint to underline that,t wom as wellus, young girls of 13 and 14 being sold off into marriage, young girls being forced into sex, young girls who are at risk of losing their education. That demands our attention. People in the United States also have to recognize this is happening in our own towns,wn in ourackyard. The local ywca. So, the ywca is the Main Organization around the country which provides shelter and finds homes for people who are trying to geout of abusive situations. Theveical f 16thhasve bd that usually gets them through, in my local area, in sicon valley. In the period since the and sheltering at home began, they had a hundred calls from local women who needed shelter from an abuser, and so this is something we really have to be paying attention to and i thi pnkg couldnt agree more. And im so glad this issue has been elevated here on this in this program. David, your ganization, i. R. C. , just this week is putting outrt a rehat estimates there will be between 500 million and a billion infectio, potentially leading to more than 3 Million Deaths in 34 confliaffected areas. Put that in perspective for us, because thats more than 12 times the number of people who have been killed so far. Yeah. So, we havent just plucked a number out of the air. Ke weve the technical data from imperial college, london,he and from World Health Organization. Weve then applied tha technical data, the thm about the spread of the disease, to the 34 countrieshe in whichnternational rescue committee works, aces like somalia, yemen, syria, south sudan, some of the worlds emergency humanitarian hot spots. When you run thada, you see that between 500 million and a billion infectionslo s likely. Remember, the density in the places like coxs bazar in bangladesh,he whall the million refugees i mentioned, the density there is four to seven tim the level of the density in new york. Kiuve got 40,000 to 70,000 people per squarmeter in coxs bazar. And so we are sounding the alarm. Its not yet on our screense because wecused on the homefront. But the International Danger of this is as potent, if not more so, than the domestic danger. And weve got to be able to learn that addressing this crisis atatat doesnt give us an exce to fail to address it abroad. Weve got to do both. Because therell be noormal in economic or social life until we achieve that. Is there risk, david,in at overpredi or ringing the alarm too loud or overprojecting the risk of the Global Effect of this . Well, of course, im hopeful that were wrong. I hope that we dont end up with 500 million to a billion people infected. But when you think about the fact that this is the most virulent disease that the immunologists and the epidemiologists can imagine, when you recognize the density levels, thweakness of the underlyi health conditions, my fear, honestly, is that we are underestimating, not overestimating. I hope were wrong. St for the benefit of all your viewers, were saying that this is over the lifetime of the sease. Were not saying that this is within six months. But the truth is that this disease is already more widespread than we realize, and the danger is that it doesnt get treated properly. You know, last summer i went with i. R. C. To vis the azraq camp with my family in jordan. And as we are all thinking about cial distancing, and i think most people watching this program think of social distcing as a very different thing. Think about a place where people are so crampedn that theres no distance between people ever. Think about a place where washing your hands is a total luxury. I think its a totally different thing, and i think those numbers, we he these are too high, but they could be too low. Of course, one of the things you wrote in your Facebook Post at the time was you id, quote, women d girls bear the brunt of poverty and are the most vulnerable in crisis. For refugees, is the covid cris a double crisis . Yes, absolutely. I t a mother whose teenageki kids are w seven days a week, 16 hours a day, to earn the equivalent of 30 u. S. Dollars a month to make ends meet. Ats before this crisis. Thats before an economic recession, where the people who are the most vulnerable always fare the worst. They were in crisis before this, and this crisis has made t all t worse. Let me ask you, sheryl, and then david, i dont want to be pollyannaish here,op but are therrtunities this moment . Is the any possibility to seize the crisis to catalyze the kind of change at you both work for . Yes, have an opportunity not just to survive the crisis but make things beer. And we have to believe its possible. And the first step there is information. We nd to report this data ou with a gender lens. We need to be looking at the impact on women and girls specifically so that we can address this. David, do y see specificpportunities to seize the crisis for the advancement of women and girls . I hink we have to vow that this is a 1945, not a 1918 moment. What do i mean by that . After 1945, the great institutions that drove international cooperation, the growth of the middle class, the longest sustained period of peace and prosperity in the western worldve that weveknown. The contrast is 1918, the end of the first world war. The world fell in on itself. It turned to nationalism. So we have to vow that this is a 1945 moment. And some of the unfinished butness of the 1945 settlem is actually around healthcare. The World Health Organization, far from being overfun as the president is saying e World Health Organization needs re funds, moength, more independence. We need stronger internaonal organizations, notay in health, which can, i think, be a leader if it comes out of this crisis with the right lessons. But we have to speak the truthon about those lewith clarity and with power. I think we can also see action from individuals within comnities. This is a moment r the Government Action that davids talking about, for os to step up, but also for individuals and communities to do that and keep women and girls clearly, clearly at the forefront of thi in all of those responses. David, many peoplein n american audience might need to be reminded that you are a very Prominent Labor Party politician. Before you came the United States, you were the foreign secretary, which is the equilent of the united state secretary of state, and the current british Prime Minister, who you know, Prime MinisterBoris Johnson, has just recovered from covid1 and he is now speaking about how serious his plight with the virus was. And he is thanking healthcare workers for saving his life, which also illustrates the advantage that those of us in the developed world have. Do you care to comment about Boris Johnsons recovery and this iue of the disparities around the world, in terms of developing countries . Well, i think everyone who is british oeveryone, frankly, will be relieved the Prime Ministers recovery. We need people at the heads of government but, frankly, all over the world to recognize the seriousns of this disease. And Boris Johnson himself has said that he was in some degree of denial about how seriousnd the ion was. There are countries where the noti of a hospital bed, never mind a ventilator, is a luxury. Rhankfully, Boris Johnson ne ended up on the ventilator. He was able to recover with the benefit of extreme oxygen help. And i think there is something in the wd you use disparity. Its a really important word here, because what is the lesson ofhis crisis . Not just that were a connected world where flights go from wuhan to new york. The bigger lesson ishat the holes in the Global Safety net are a reat not just to the countries the people in the countries atere there are those holes, but theyre a th to the global system. You know, i want to ask you both aut misinformation, because, of course, part of what you say, sheryl, is sending o information is making sure we get the right information to people. Vid, ive heard you say that one of your other allenges is dealing with fake news in places where the i. R. C. Is active bangladesh, nigeria, cameroon, middle east. Can you talk about specic situations that youve encountered . Yeah. Fa news is a massive probl because we know that the tmberone asset in responding to an emergency st. Theres no point in having a health clinic, however wellstocked, if peopleo t trust to go into it. And we learnt that lesson very strongly in the ebola crisis. Now, Building Trust takes local, credible actors people to spreadme the righage. Were fighting against the allegation that this is a conspiracy of foreigners, that i was td today by a colleague in jordan, if you carry an onion, you wont get the disease. Some of the fake news is deep conspiracy. Other fake news is laughable. But the truth is, it can get halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on. Sheryl, id like for you to speak about to what fa is doing and why when it comes to false information pertaining to covid19 well, yes, this is the highest focus for us and the highest priority. And i think some of the mistakes in the past,ba whenou loo four and five years and we didnt know what misinformation was, w the wove don to put systems in place have really served us well. We are in a much better position to handle this than we would have been had right when this virus hit,go. We knew we wanted to get the right information to people and prevent the wrong information. And as david said, weve reldea onh authorities, the cdc here, local foreign ministries and Health Ministries around the world, to get the right information in front of people. When theres information that they deem can cause imminent harm, ve taken it down. Weve tried to take it down as quickly as possible. And weve tried to push people to the credible information, the Accurate Information from Health Authorities they need. Th 3 billion people on our platforms, its always going to be an uphill battle,ve but we belhat, more than ever, the right information has to get in front of people, and were working hard to make sure that happens. Here is a screenshot of whatn happens oure on facebook and you get information that facebook has deemed, in concert with thWorld Health Organization, false information. Yeah, weve been veryggressive here. Usually on facebook, you see information from the people youve connected to. You information we thinkg you should see. When something is marked false, we are very aggressively marking it false. And 95 of the time, once its maned false, people dont o it, and they dont share it. And so were taking this really seriously. Its kind of all hands on deck to make sure that people are getting e right information and not the wrong information on our services. Look, i want to just back u an important point. The appetite for really good information is out there. Were in a world where theres more information than ever beforees but actuallytrust. And weve got to be able to provide trusted, independent information, and thats absolutely key to this world awash with informaon, too much of which is not actually true. You canlso use technolo. Weve invested billions and billions of dollars in Building System to combat misinformation. So think we have a responsibity to put as many resources we can and use the power of technology to get people the answers they wantpe becausle want Accurate Information. I ave to ask you, against that backdrop, there is something youve said on march 19th. You said about covid19s misinformation spread, quote. As we know, only a few weeks p later, tsident of the United States mused about whether injecting disinfectant might actually fight or cure the virus. Videos andranscripts of that are stilon facebook. So how do you square what i know is facebooks position about free speech when it comes to piticians with politicians spreading misinformation about covid19 . So, were very clear. If you spread misinformationdc that ther Health Ministry has deemed to be imminently harmful, wwill take it down. If there were actual videos sayingplease go drink bleach rht now, those come down, and we are relyg on Health Ministries to make those determinations. E but the no exctions. If anyone is encouraging people to do things like at, th will come down. So you guys just made the determination that that was a musing, t a recommendation, and so it didnt cross the line. We are not making determinations because we cant be arbiters of the truth. Were not heal officials. We are relying on health officials, everyone from the cdc to the who to local Health Ministries, to make those determinations. And the World Health Organization and the cdc did come out and say that consuming bleach or any sort of disinfectant would be a harmful act and is not only not recommended but people should not do it. Correct. And weve made sure people got that infortion do not do this. And when people have encouraged and said, please, go drink that, that has come d and ll continue to, no matter who says it. To data privacy. E to move on david, you wrote. Youre here in the United States where there is a question about how we balance the need to do Contact Tracing and Monitoring Monitoring work, which is part of fighting covid19, with protecting individual freedom and privacy. How do we balance those two . Well, the big picture here is that, in the wrong hands,ss the s of the crisis a less connected world,eties, and a less equal world. The global picture is one where e struggle between autocracy and free societies is being slanted in theio wrong direat the moment. My reflection on the u. S. Situation, though, gives me one important cause of hope, and i think it addresses your questiodirectly. Ive been very struck how the independent state health commiioners have cominto their own as trusted parties in this in ohio, in massachusetts, in new york. Independent Health Authorities. Lesson in the ways a real in which the independent, trusted expertiseta at level has come into its own, uncontaminatedns by the partip and the dysfunctionalism ,f the federal level. And in your syst federal politics has a but whats remarkable to me,t. As someone whos lucky enough to live and work in america, government at state levelcratic are still very strong. Av ian example. You know, data is really important here in slowing the spread of thdisease and helping authorities plan. And there are many ways it can a be done ery privacyprotective way. So we launed just a bit agosy tom maps, where we are in partnership with an Academic Institution, asking people on faceboo you want to take an Anonymous Survey . We are not getting the data. The Academic Institution is. And asking people, h are ying symptoms . And then, we are doing aggregate mappinghe ofs where are symptoms, and it is mapping very closely to where these outbreaks are happening. That kind of data protects peoples privacy, totally anonymous. But its going to help local health officia plan for where we need hospital beds, where we might need ventilators, where diffent shelterinplace rules might want to happen. So i think, with a ver privacyprotective lens on, there are ways of getting individuals to share information in ways that will protecthe theith and other peoples, and were working hard on those, too. Ou all have written this oped together. Will you continue to Work Together to combat the crisis and to help women and girls . Yeah, definitely. I mean, look, sheryls being very modest. S shde a very generous donation to the International Rescue committee. I think that the voicehe that bringing to this is really powerful and posive. The passion, you can tell that shes got to this. And i also think that there is room for ngo and the corporate sector to use this period for al redesign, to help us think through how we dont go back to normal. I hate that phrase when we gock o life as it was. For the people that we serve, we dont want to go back we actually want to leave behind the kind of holes and we want to partnerve got, with those who know things much better for the peoplegs that we serve. In the midst of all this crisis and hardship and unprecedented levels of disease and death and economic desir, we do see these unbelievable stories of people coming together. D think thats what gives all of us hope for a better future. Sheryl sandberg and david miliband, thank you very much for coming to firing line sharing your views, and engaging this important topic. Thank you very much. Ou thank you for caring this topic. Really means a lot. Firing linear with mret hoover is made possible by. Additional funding is provided. Coorate funding is provided by. Youre watching pbs. Hello, everyone. Welcome to amanpour co. Heres whats coming up. One minute after midnight tonight, tuesday,he 8 of may. Celebrating 75 years since world waiis victoryurope with prominent historians Doris Kearns Goodwin and max hastings. Reflecting on coronavirus. Then i connect with people, with words, with animals it is more mind to mind. Leading science climatologist jane good yaall tells us