Additional fundiprovided by. Corporate funding is provided by. Mark cubaelcome to firing line. Thank you, margaret. Youre an entrepreneur, the owner of the dallas mavericks, than 150 Small Businesses as a shark on the hit Television Show shark tank. And since both of us are social distancing, youre joining us remotelyrom dallas. Yes. What is social distancing like for mark cuban . H, t could be worse. Lets put it that way. Im glad im not living wiom six guys in a threebed apartment any longer. And, you know, i have space here with my family, so you know, it we still have cabin fever every now and then, but its not so bad. So you were Just Announced to have been chosen for President Trumps advisoryun l to reopen the economy. Diyou know you were going toe selected for this . I found out about an hour before. And so someo had asked me a couple weeks ago, said they were looking at doing something. Im like, sure. Whatever i can do. But then i found out that they officially were going to ask me about an hour before and then got the news like everybody else. D and wyou suppose you were selected . You know, i go both ways on that. But, you know, i think because i have a good feel for Small Business and ive been vocalt and kind of ont. And i think they also recognize i have a lot of connectivity to Small Businesses through shark tank. What advice will u give the administration about how to handle this pandemic and the economic rebooting of the country . Very straightforward advice. T taa lot of Small Businesses, talk to people who have lost their job. You know, talking to just p the riple that run the companies is not going to give you near the guidanceo as talkingople who are the ones struggling the most from this. Because well figure it out. Right . I mean, ill land on my feet. T and doestter how much money ive lost. Its the people whove lt their jobs that have threal struggle. The economy really cant rebound unless this is a bottomup recovery. This wont be a topdown recovery, and that will be my point. So, do you think they are insufficiently listening right now . Look, its really hard right now to pass judgment on anybody. Nobody is going to make a good decision because we have imperfect information. , you know, i give him credit for trying, and well see where it goes from here. The are a lot of people on that list, on this Economic Advisory task force you know, more than a hundred. Op and there are who have been very complimentary of the president , people who have not been complimentary of the president. Youve been both. I want you to take a look at this. Were about seven weeks into the trump administration. What do you think . No leadership skills. Not very good communication skills. But s obviously had an impa on the economy, so he gets credit for that. I think donald trump has recognized that he can drive the conversation right now c and tatrol of it. And the democrats are just falling right behind, right in placeand letting him drive the conversation. Im not a faof Donald Trumps as president. I havent been for a while. But that said, hes obviously adjusted and adapted, and hes doing his best. Well, its no secret that the president likes people who compliment him. Yeah. And i just want to ask you, President Trump told all the governors of all the states robust plans to begin reopening the country on may 1st and suggested that some of them may even be up and running before may 1st. And ive heard you say, the dumbest thing you can do is put a date on it. Yeah. S my question for you is, is that wise . Do you think its wi the president to be gunning for may 1st . So, the balance is playingde cheerlinchief versus executing on different orders. Right . You know, if hes playing cheerleader, great. And give give people incentives to try to get ready, thats fine. But the reality is, i still think its dumb to set a date, because u cant. We just dont have enough datait to make any conts at all. So, you were on this phone call witmany Industry Leaders and the president. Do you get the sense that hebalancing his role as cheerleader with his role as the person responsible for Public Health . I think hes trying. You know, i thinhes doing the best he can. And so, you know but i think at the end of the day, i dont care what the politicians say. I dont care what the media says no disrespec care what science says. I care what my employees think. I care what i think is going to get the best results. And i think every every citizen of this country has got to do the same thing. You know, maybe in the past, we could defer to our politicians, but we know how much we trt our politicians now. Right . We know how much, you know i dont think t its a game thyre playing that really isnt relevant to me at all. Hi will you tell him you its dumb to set a date . Will i tell him that . No, theres no point. He i got lots of things to tell him. What will you tell them about sports . Because the president had sa just this last week, im tired of watching baseball games that are 14 years old. Youre one of 16 sports Industry Leaders to join the task force. What are you going to tell him about reopeninbasketball . Safety first, period, end of story. You know, if our players arent safe, i would never ask anybody to do what i wldnt ask my kids to do. And if i dont feel its safe for my kids to particite, im not gonna ask any of my employees, any of the players to participate, no exceions. Lets take a step back. March 11th will be really remembered to most people as the day of this wakeup call about the pandemic, because it was the day that the World Health Organization declared that covid19 was not just an outbreak, it was a pandic. It was the day that President Trump announced european travel restrictions. It was the day that nks tweeted that he and his wife had coronavirus in australia, and the day that the nba suspended the season, indefinitely. Lets take a look athat clip that went around the world of you of you at a game against my hometown team, the denver nuggets. Lets take a look. And thats where the hiatus will start. You can see right here the reaction from mark cuban when he got the news looking at his phone. And then he went and started to discuss it with members of theza mavericks orgation on their bench. What concerns do have . Now that were not playing games, what about all the people who work here on an hourlysi you know, well put together a program for them. But, you know, theres just so many this at go through your head. Right . Itsard to know exactly whats right. You know, at that point, you had already started researching pay for those workers. And after the suspension announcement, you said that you would be taking care of paying all arena workers as though games were being played, even though the season h been suspended. Yeah. Just to be clear, are you spending your own personal resourceso ensure that the employees get paid . Yeah, i dont kw who elses resources i would spend. How much is it g you . Know . I dont know exactly. Its. In the millions of doll i want toalk about unemployment with you, because while your employees will luckily be spared that fate, millions and millions of americans, more than 20 millionw after this weel have filed for unemploy Unemployment Insurance claims. And its suc a staggering number. I wonder, as you lookmp at these uyment numbers coming in every week, how bad do you think its going to get before it geter . Very bad. Yeah, i mean worse than the Global Financial crisis . Ea y i mean, were way past that already. I mean, im not ready use depression, becau its hard to define what that is, but its gonna be difficult for a lot of people. Its already difficultor a lot people, and its going to be difficult for businesses toeep people employed. Now, i do have confidence that the entreprenrs in this country, the innovation that happens in this country will get us through this. I dont think this is, you know, a 3, 5year problem. I think its more of an 18 to 24month problem. But its going those 18 to 24 months could be difficult as we start to work our way out of this. I mean, unemploym in the Great Depression was 25 . Do you think were going to get to that level . I dont even want to guess. Back and saying, ow what . This is gonna lets just recognize its bad. Recognize that, you know, employers are going to have to ask the question, what do i want my Company Look Like . How am i going to deal with my employees the day we come out of it . Because those are the important questions. Can i pay them enough so that they dont have to be on government assistance any longer . Because thats reallmost important thing that we can do. You know, to me, the worst socialism is having an employee thats also on government assist and me asking taxpayers to subsidize the work theyre doi for me. I want to get to the Small Business part of the cares act, the 2 trilln recovery act, the relief act that was passed. There was a part of it at dealt specifically with unemployment benefits. And unemployed workers are now eligible for an additional of what they already received. Senator schumer, who youve had choice words for, called this unemployment on steroids. Really strong analysis that this is a wellmeaning but perhaps misguided effort because people may be incentivized to stay out of the workforce because theyre getting paid so much. What dyou think about that . Ive seen it happen. Right . But that doesnt make it bad. En right . So, d on how long we keep it going. The incremental 600, yes. Its led people to leaving their jobs, d its led employers to say, you know what . We know you can get 600 moreou than you have otherwise in unemployment. Can we lay you off ofire you so that you can go in that direction . And a lot employees are saying yes. But that only gets us through a certain riod of time. Right . Its not forever. And we dont know whats going to happewhen that time period is done. So were going to have to be agile more than anything else. Id love to talk about whats going on with Small Businesses, becae you have invested in more than 150 Small Businesses as a shark on shark tank. You know, of the 2 trillion plan, nearly 350 billion was allocated specifical for emergency lending to Small Businesses, called the payroll Protection Plan. And 350 billion sounds like a large number to regular people on the street who, you know, dont tnk about governmentudgets a lot. Its not. Yh, but its not. Right, right. I mean, there are economists y who say, re going to keep every single Small Business in this country, all 30 million of them,in at full speed for the next three months, its going to cost 1. 5 trillion. So is this enough money the ppp, paycheck Protection Plan . No, of course not. Right . But the question becomes its not even just about the amount of money. It about the timing of the money and the utility of the money. The goal was to reduceuc asfriction in the economy as possible and keep people on payrolls, right . cause is cheaper to pay businesses to keep them on payroll than it to give them unemployment. But the process has had so much friction, via the banks, and i understand why theyre ,ying to protect themselv because the treasury isnt always forthcoming on the things they need to dod. To get reimbur but all this friction is making it more difficult. Soot only is it not enough money, but by the time the second tranche comes along,ay so many peopleave lost their jobs because the timing of it doesnt workal for the businesses, that it may be less effective, as well. Theres another 250 billion that is being held up in the senatright now by the democrats who want extra money, another 250 billion, for ste local governments and hospitals. What do you say to those democrats now who are holding up that relief to Small Businesses . Right idea, wrong time. You ow, i dont disagree with what theyre trying to accomplish, but now is not the time, because ery day we lose costs far more than any dollar we gain whenever we get it, because every day, another sll business is going to collapse and more people are going to be put out the street. So while the concept is good and your intentions are right, nows not the time then theres this other question about, are the Small Businesses that need it th most, that the smallest and the, you know, on the lower ald ofhe smallbusiness the momandpop on the corner, the bodega down the street, that dont have the preferredh relationship we commercial bankin order to be able to even get to the front of the line. U know, what are you advising those kind of companies . Theyre in deep doodoo, right . Its a real problem becaus only even though the ppp opened the door for Sole Proprietorships and independent contractors, lyft drivers, uber drivers, et cetera, they literally chaed the rules just two days ago. And so now theres a whole lomoreaperwork, in terms of the tax filings that are required in order for a bank tgive that to you. And that creates so much more work for a bank. It puts you typically the end of the line for the reasons you mentioned. Youre not a typical customer r them. Youre not a big customer for them. And these are the people who need the money the worst. But hopefully, this second tranche, hopefully people will speak up loudly. Look, ive never been a unio guy, but this is the time, right . This is the time for peoplto come together and organize themselves, to speak up with a sinlar voice. You know, whether youre an uber driver, whether youre a lyft driver, whether you work for a g employer and you dont think that theyre treating you well, nows the time because the line worker, the people who are making the hourly wages, even though a lot of them have been laid off, those who are esstaying with their compa have more voice and more power than ever if they co together. Why do they have more voice, though . I mean, for example, sephoras one of these companies that laid off 3,000 people in a mass conference call, and employees reportedly, you know, were given less than an hour notice. When sephora decides to rehire, why are those employees going to have more leverage . I mean, why arent they justec. Se they cant get open they cant get open without them. And e hardest thing to do is going to be to retrain new people. Arent peopleonna be desperate to get rehired . Well, thats yes, but thats one of the values u of tmployment insurance paying so much more. Right . Because theres more money in unemployment and most likely are going to have to continue, at least for some period of time, and whenhat door opens up and any company, anany retailer is going toto retain or bring back the people who are already trained because its cheaper that way than onboarding new ones and going through all the hassle, so those people who are being asked to come back are goinger to have more le, not less. Youre really optimistic that this kd of a pandemic can lead to that kind of transformation. Why are you so why are you so hopeful . And why are you so confident . And i mean, i i alaud the optimism. I share it. But why do you think this can be the moment to capitalize on it . Thats what makes this country different than every other country in the world. Thats who weveeen for you know, since 1776. You know, we start businesse we create opportunity. You know, all these little side hustleow you you talk about what are people going to do when thee dont haheir jobs . The biggest opportunities, particularly on the ittle business side, are side hustles in every Little Community because youre going to have the street. Youre going to know what your neighbors want, and being able to sell and service em in new things that we hadnt even anticipated, its a t of those are going to turn into Great Companies. Im optimistic that when we look back in 5, 10 years, therell be 10, 30 Great Companies that are created out of necessityhe because ofandemic of 2020. I mean, you care a lot that becomes clearsiness. If you watch shark tank. I want to showou a great moment from shark tank where that really typifies your respon to a certain a certain pitch. Dallas mavericks blue just for you. You keep it. Thank yo mark, are you allergic to posive negative ion stuff . No, im allergic to scams. Seriously . This is not new. Its been disproven. What you saw is the placebo effect. Theres athletes that wear it. Its a joke. Its a scam. Its not real. Im out. Why is ethics so important to you in business . Well, i mean, in shark tank lar,arti when you have millionsf people who are watching the show over and over again with the repeatsn tuinto tens of millis, i want people to know that the only way to do business right is by doing business ethically. And when someone comes on, whether its splements and making bad claims or an ion watch and making a claim thats ridiculous, its not just about the money for most investors and for most entrepreneurs. The best businesseethical. E it may not catch up to you in the short term, but itlways caup to you. Karmas a bitch, you know . And im a big believer in karma. So, you wrote on itter back in march. I know income inequalityng is sometouve talked quite a bit about. What is the opportunity to address income lity . Mic well, i think linelevel employees, hourly workers will have far greater importance than they have in the past, rderuse in to get back to work, Companies Really need to try. O retain the same people theyve always h and so thats part one. Part two is, in order for people get beyond living paycheck to paycheck or the uncertainty youre going to be working, they have to have assets that appreciate, and those assets that appreciate typically are gonna be Stock Options or warrants in a company. And thatseay the only way to start the process. In the united statat capitalism is insufficiently compassionate . Yes. Why do you say that . Because, look, in erica 1. 0, the drive to just see how much y can get in the bank and, look, ive been justs guilty. When i was first starting out and i was sleeping on the floor, i was driving aroundooking at the houses, thinking, you know, if only i could make enough money to have this othat. And so i feel that drive. But i thk now, particularly, because this is the worst weve seen in a hundred years. You know, now particularly we have to recognize that there was a Bernie Sanders movement for a reason. Right . There was a reason why so many people look up look at socialism not being a dirty word anymore. Gnd so you have to be cognizant of whats happen in the country today. And the only way to deal with that, as a capitast, is by being more compassionate and recognizing trickledown economics dont work. Trickleup economics do work. That the stronger the bottom is, the higher you raise it, the stronger csumerism is, the more they have to spend, the more things they can buy, the more appreciable assets they can participate in, the more their net worth will be, and the more money capitalists can make. So, again, theyre nually exclusive. Youve said that youre rich, youre fine certain amount of your wealth goes to the government. Do you think that the gornment is the right mechanism for spreading out the wealthor orharing concentrations of riches . I mean, for today, yes. Given the circumstances with covid, yes. I mean, we have no other means of distribution, right . So the answer is absolutely,si vely. And thats why youve heard me say positive things about the various programse wescussed. Longer term, potentially. Right . D ends on what you think government should look like. And so, from my perspective, as a tech geekght . I think Artificial Intelligence can literally change the way government is enable government as a service can actually work. Ae old model of having, you know, millio millions of employees pushing paper and friction and g things done didnt work before. Was probably enough money going into the government coffers, m we just didnage to get it to the people who needed it most. So we werent very efficient. But i think with new technologies, we can become more frictionfree, mored distribute more to those people who need it the most. So ork with President Trump has already begun, in terms of your role on the advisory uncil for restarting the government. Obviously, you youre interaction with the president helpful, youre a good citizen, youre a patriotic person. How would you grade the president s handling of the covid pandemic right now . Im gonna freak you out, bu ill give him an a, and ill tell you why . Why . Job. Ecause nobody can do a good nobody can do a good job. Doesnt matter who you are,u going to be able to secondguess anybody. And so rather than just saying, you know what . Heres what you did wrong. Heres the worst part about it. You couldve done this sooner. You could have done at sooner, it doesnt really matter at all. D i mean, ther have a conversation about, okay. When the doors open back up, what are the things that we need to do to make sure that people have jobs . What are the this that we need to do to get people paid more . Should we be talking about freeing things up for ople to unionize because they might need unions more . Theres so many things id rather look forward on and just plain greater. You know, i wouldnt maka very good teacher from that perspective in giving grades. Its just t worth. So i give an a and just walk on. If the election were held today, would y vote for him . Probably not. Yeah, probably not. Vice esident biden has promised to pick a woman as his v. P. Candidate. Gretchen whitmer, the emerging star from michigan whos dealing with the crisis in her own backyard, amy klobuchar, kamala harris. Yeah, i know senator klobuchar and pesenator harris, and ive some time both of them, and theyre both incredible. I couldve voted for eitheres one for ent had they gotten the nomination. H would you handicap the president ial race right now . I wouldnt. Thers so much that can happe what each candidate does between now and then makesdi all therence. Right . Because theres a real risk of resurgence. Eres a real risk that the virus mutates. Theres a real risk that we can mishand any type of therapies. T ifrapy comes out and some percentage of the country cant afford it because somebods played favorith a pharmaceutical company, that candidates gonna get crushed. Right . And so theres so many things that can change. And we really havent seen joe come out and say a whole lot yet. And, you know, its very difficult in the midst of this you know, the typical saying is dont let a tragedy go unud, right, when it comes to politics, but at the same time, you know, to say too much, it could be misconstrued. And so i think hopeful we get mor we get past this more, and well haveda a better fntal understanding of what each is going to dooing forward. But im far more con with the day after. Right . Because all weve said is all weve talked aut is the complete uncertainty. Nobody knows. Yet i havent heard anything about the day after from either candidate. So im not ready to handicap anything yet. You said there are a lot of things that you would tellid the prt, in terms of how to handle thisrisis or things that he should do, with respect to Small Businesses and the economy. What are some of those things . Let me take a step back. Right now, were pushing down Interest Rates where the fed is effectively buying assets from banks, for nds. What weve got right now is effectively ubi for rich people. Ybody who has appreciable assets, theyre creating a floor for those assets. And for people le me who understand that and can deal with those things, all right. Weve seen the market go up, you know . But no ones talking about buying assets from somebody whos living in a dump, rented locion that they can barely make the rent, if at all. They dont have a job any longer and they dont have any appreciable assets for anybody to buy. And nobodys buying anhing from them right . To prop them up. Im going to ask you,g are you runnr president . Im leaving the door open. Well see. In these crazy tes, anything is possible. But i wouldnt i wouldnt bet that it would happens of now. So you spend 30 million of your own money to get on the ballot in all these stat . No. What do you mean . It wouldnt require that. The good news d news is, the bad news of covid is that its impsible to go out and get signatures. The good news is, from a legal perspectiveg and gett a ballot, its impossible to go out and get signatures. And, plus, theres obviouslyal r parties that i think would be wide open for having me as a candidate. But again, those are all hypotheticals. Im not saying that its certainly going to happ. If it were today, based of the circumstances today, the answer would be no. But for all the reasons weve just discued, a lot of things can change. A lot a lot of things arein happin real time as we go forward. But theres all these issues we discussed also that mawish i had done it. Ht all r mark cuban, thanks so much for taking time to be on firing line. Re we aate your views. Thank u for sharing them. And thank you for your leadership in this time. No, margaret, it was a blast. Thk you for having me on. I hope we get to do it again. Firing line with Margaret Hoover is made possible by. Additional funng is provided by. Corporate funding is provided by. [announcer] the people who gave the money t to make Mister Rogers neighborhood are the people of this and otand the searsroebuck foundation. ]s [theme mus i singts a Beautiful Day in this neighborhood,au a ful day for a neighbor. Would you be mine . Could you be mine . Its a neighborly day in this beauty wood, a neighborly day for a beauty