What does Ambassador Nikki Haley say no firing line with marret hoover is made possible by. Edditional funding is prov by. Corporate funding is provided by. Welcome to firing line, nii haley. Thank you. Its great to be here. Ambassar haley, you were the United States ambassador to the United Nations. You were a member of President Trumps cabinet and ae er of his National Security council. And you were the first person of color and woman to be elected as govnor to the state of South Carolina. Youve now written a book, with all due respect defending america with grit and grace. When you first considered taking the job as United States ambsador to the United Nations, you told reince priebus, you i dont even know, what the United Nations does. All i know yeah. Body hates it. Tell me, do you have a more or a less positive view of the United Nations now . I think its interesting. I thini understand it more, from the standpoint of here you have 193 countries that come together ithe name of peace and security. But whether it succeeds depends and i said this to therward. Secretary general and to the the United Nationsnna beis, if successful, it has to change with the times. They have to Start Talking about things that are uncomfortable to talk about. They have to talk about what maduro is doing in vla. They have to talk about a million plus uyghurs chin concentration camps ia. They have to talk about these things they dont wantou to talk to continue to talk about relevant todaysues as if theyre is what makes people doubt the United Nations. El im glad you mentioned the uyghurs and venezuela, maduro. Human rights was a focus of yours when you were u. N. Ambassador. And i wonder,el whatd you decide to make human rights a focus . I think i strongly believe that every Single Person deserves human dignity. And what i saw was, if a government doesnt treat its people well, conflict will follow. And so if we defend human rights, its prevention towards conflict. You can look at what happened with the arab spring. You can look at syria. Started with a group of teenagers at just spraypainted something on the wall against the government, and the government came ok those kids, beat them, pulled their nails out, returned them bloody and bruised to their parents, nts wentr pa to the streets and protested. How a government handles people using the power their voice dictates whether conflict will happen. So if we always fight and defend human rights for all people, were actually doing preventionn ofict later. Do you believe that President Trump careshu aboun rights as much as you did when you were there . Us i do think he cares about human rights, bewhen i was going and pushing for human rights to be heard inhe United Nations, he was the one tt was supporting me in doing that. So he also understands the importance of standing up for people who cant stand up for themselves. Te would it be helpful if he expressed it as as you did . Well, i tried to pick up the pieces when i didnthink the administration was saying it enough. Thats when i tried to go and really put an emphasis on it. And so my job was to gopp and t what he was doing but also add another layer to talk about the thingsat thought were important that i knew he cared about. So, when you were at theu. , ultimately the United States ended up withdrawing from the u. N. Human rights council. As i understand it, you had twoi maincisms of it. One of them had to do with who the other members of the council were. Right. Why was that important . Well, i think that, you kno what had happened was the Human Rights Council became a place that human rights abusers wento so that they wouldnt be called out. When youve got saudi arabia,v when ygot venezuela, when youve got the democratic republic of congo sitting on the Human Rights Council, d it automaticalqualifies it from being anything related to human rights. And then the second thing was, you know, you have all of these issues happening the world, but they have one agenda item that focuses solely on israel. And so the Human Rights Council really was a place to do israelbashing and for humanrights abusers to hidand keep anyone from calling them out on it. In fact, as you point out in your book, the human rightsil criticized israel 10 times as much as it criticized countries like iran. It did, yes. So then, how do you answe your critics who say that you value American Leadership and American Leadership is important in the world, so how do you continue to emphasize and focus on human rights if you withdraw from the organization whose central purpose is to focus on human rights . We had literally hundred over a hundred mtings, trying to reform the Human Rights Council, and everyone, for the most part, agreed with us that it was an embarrassment. But no one would go out publicly and say it. And the last straw for me was, t they came bame and said, but the United States is the last great hope for the Human Rights Council. And i thought, why would we legitimize something thats such a farce . We can fight for human rights. We dont need a farce council to do that. In your book, you also write that the u. N. Not just the hrc but the u. N. Has a long, ugly history of antiisrael bias. You have many examples in your book, including in 1975, when the u. N. Declared that zionism waactually equivalent to racism, and the u. N. Ambassador at that time was Daniel Patrick moynihah who came o program with william f. Buckley jr. Id like you to taookss that. And react. On the zionism matter, that was another interesting day, and its been very badlyed repohat if you resist these nations, they will get angry and never forgive you and so forth. Well, in fact, they we angry and had never forgiven you in the beginning, partly because it was costfree. The proposition that zionism is a form of racism, racial discrimination, it is an outrage. A lie. We are still the most portanty coun the world, and they know it. Wel its i think they do know it. And i think that the knowledge of it is sometimes a temptation t tweak our tail on the grounds tey can do so with relative impunity, which has been, historically,th somethin you have greatly resisted. Ti my qu to you is, did you encounter this attitude that moynihan discusses about a concern about angering nations who would vote against israel . I think that when i came in, it was just so amazing at how abusive these countries we to israel. D, o me, what was important was that we had the backs of our allies, and israels a bright spot in a tough neighborhood. And what there was, was a habitj t beating israel down because they could. Ani think it was just afte the 1967 war when they realized that they couldn defeat israel on the battlefield, they decided to try and do it at the United Nations. And i thought it was so important that we stand up for them and let them know we rent going to let them that any more. There are some critics who would say that you we overly focused on israel. How do you reply to them . I think the United Nations isverly focused on israel. All i did was defend it whenever they were called t. Do you think that the u. N. Is an effective actor in International Relations . I think the u. N. Can be an effective actor, and the perfect example is what we did with north korea. When we passed those three sanctions that really pushed that was a sign that thetable, United Nations can do good things. When they go and connue to have these irrelevant meetings on issues that arent really our main focus in the wod, thats when they become irrelevant. So then, on north korea so, in recent days, leader kim jongun has visited mount paektu on horseback. Th its a backdro is used for propaganda, and oftentimes, it foreshadows policy development or an event, an upcoming event. What do you think is going on in north korea right now . I think hes trying to push our buttons. Sthink hes trying to get to move on the fact that he wants us to lift the sanctions. Any sort of posturing is not going to get us to move, and we have to make sure we hold the internatnal Community Together ay isolating north korea. Theres only oneut for them, anthat is for them to be willing to denuclearize. At this point, theyre asking uo o what theyve asked multiple times before, and were doing somethingan different eve done multiple times before, which is standing strong, saying, were not gonna lift theanctions until we see better actions from you. Something that hapat thend u. N. This week, because at the u. N. This week, the United States ocked a u. N. Security Council Meeting on north korean human rights. It is really hard to imagine Ambassador Nikki Haley or, a u. N. Security Council Meeting on north korean human rights. What do you suspect thats about . We actually held meetings on human rights, d it made them ha upset that we did it. And they saidif you hold this meeting, this will to considered a provocation. That doesnt seee to be something that would have scared you away. Well, i just dot think that we bind at threats. I mean so, why did we here . You know, i think that they went ahead, they did have a meetinon north korea. They had it on the Ballistic Missile testing and what theyre doing. O but nhuman rights. I think they shouldve had it on human rights. That we continue t outportant north korea for how they treat their people. Every doar that goes into north korea doesnt go to feed its people. If you had been there, would they have donet that way . I wouldve pushed back. I wouldve pushed back and said, we have to address this. We have to keep fighting for the ople in north korea who want a better life. Do you suspect behind the scenes, between,ing you know, President Trump and his National Security team . Its hard for me to know whats going on there right nowt i would guess hey did show signs of threats and they did want to have the United States pull it down. I just would advise be very careful. Dont listen to the threats. The second we start listening to the threats, they think theyve got an in with us. You know, anoer place where you were very active when you were u. N. Ambassador at the u. S. Ambassador ton. The was with respect to iran. Since the recent protests inbe iran havn, more than 1,000 people have died. One of the criticisms of withdrawing from the iran deal was that we were leaving our allies hanging, and that the United States might not actually be able to put adequate pressure on iran alone to the negotiating. Hem back does this demonstrate that, actually, ameran sanctions n work by themselves and american learship can work on its own . Well, i think it was important for us to lethe way that the United States said, were not gonna turn a blind eye to all this bad ty by iran. Just because you getnvolved in a deal, if the deals nott working, you dtay in it because of your own ego being part of the deal. U t out of it and say,this isnt working. Were gonna change it. Do you think that there is chance that they will come back to the negotiating table . We know iran is in a worse spot than they were before they signed the deal in the first place. So they are feelg the pressure. They could make one of two decisions. They can either go thetr ist, dangerous route that we know that theyve done before to the negotiating. Ck the best way for us to hope that they come back to the negotting table is for our allies to join in isolating them like we did with north korea, to where they dont have anywhere else to turn. To that. Ink were getting clos as long as they have an out, theyre gonna try and push back as much as they can. But we have to remember the United States doesnt respond to fear, the united st shows strength. United states needs to lead, and the United States needs to remind the rest of the world why iran is dangerous and why we have to make sure that we isolate themin very way that we can. Another question for you. The New York Times editorl board, which has reviewed so many Trump Officials and cabinet ftficials, wrote when you the administration. First of all, ive rarely heard such a laudatory New York Times editorial about a Trump Administration official. But do you view that, in hindsight, as what your role was, to explain President Trump tohe world . I wanted them to know what the United States was for, and i wanted them to know at we were against. And i didnt want there to be any gray area. I didnt worry about them liking us. Th i worried abou understanding and respecting us. And so whether that was explaining the actions of the president or whether that was explaining why it waso important to the American People, i felt that was my job. You were a bit of a translator between the u. N. And the u. S. Member in your book, you wrote about how you told the president to think of the u. N. Rc as c yes. That it wasnt a rally. Right. Heres a clip of the president at the u. N. Lets take a look. In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country. Americas so true. [ laughter ] didnt expt that reaction, b thats okay. [ laughter ] as you hear the General Assembly laughing at President Trump. Theres a recent pew study that suggests that americas standing in the world after the last 3 1 2 years has actually declined among many nations. There is a sense that a once steadfast belief d in tendability of the United States with our allies has slipped. Other countries need to understand its not the United States role to carry the weight of the world. They have to do their part. So weve had hard discsions with our bthers and sisters in europe and around the world that just expect us to do for them with no partnership in return. And so, having them step up in nato and ving now what was four countries paying their share now being Nine Countries paying their share, that tough loveed to happen. The other side of it is, we have ie have the backs of our a they need to know that when were in the foxhole, weve gotheir back. And thats why that syria decision was so important, because when the kurds have lost so much blood in the namein of figterrorism, we have to stand with them. That that bloodshed mattered. And im glad the president decided to leave troops there, whether its to guard the oil or for other reasons, because for intellence purposes, t also for the fact that them know it meant something. Let i agree with you that thats the message the world needs toi hear, bunot sure theyre hearing it, which is, i think, whats reflected in this pew study, that our anding still has slipped. Sometimes when you lead, people dont like it. But we should make sure that they know were gonna stand in allegiance with our allies,r but gonna have tough love with our brothers and sisters s know were in this together and we all have rifice and pull weight. Another one of your precessors at the u. N. , ambassador jeane kirkpatrick, appeared on this program with william f. Buley jr. In 1985 and addressed the question of whether, given all of its problems, the United States should leave the u. N. Altogether. What do you say to that . I think it depends on whether the u. N. Is relevant. As long as they are willing sh talk about the hard issues, the united stateld stay part of that discussion. But as it is now, they have to start looking at the burden sharing, theyve got to start moving wh the times, they have to be flexible to realize theyve got to change. Its not the United States that needs to change. It the United Nations that needs to change with where the world is today. And so i think its to be decided, based on wheth we are gettg a return on our investment. Thats what i always fought foro wathe American People to get a return on our investment for being in the United Nations. We give a lot of money. Weve got to get Something Back for that. Do yothink it should always be an open question whether were part of it . I think we should continue to push the United Nations to be relevant, and if theyre not gonna be relevant, i dont think we always need to be a pa of it. Id like to shift gears. While you were governor, a white supremacist killed nine south carolinians in the Mother Emanuel Church in charleston, South Carolina. It was really how you navigated the aftermath of that event that caught the attention of the country, as well, because the issue of the Confederate Flag had been one that had been debated for a long time in South Carolina, but nobody had been able r ove it entirely until you were governor, and you were able to successfully bring together people from all sides of that debate in order to reach a conclusion that everybody agreed upon. A recent interview, that debate was rehashed. That debate was opened back up, and you have recently writtenp an in the Washington Post about what u said in that interview help maybe clarify and answerhis question about how the killer hijacked the flag from people who saw it as service and sacrifice. Well, i think its interesting, and it shows th times that ive literally said the same things for all the years since. But now in the outrage of media and the sensitivit of politicalorrectness, suddenly everybody has a problem with what im saying. What i said was, the reason this was so hard was, we needed a 2 3 vote to bring the flag down. I saw an opportunity to make something right. The Confederate Flag, ive said from the very beginning, never should have been there in the first place. But because it was there, i saw the opportunity that maybe we could have a conver about bringing it down. But in order to bring a compromise you have to be able to respect the views of your people. There re two diffent sets of people. One set of people saw theed coate flag as pain and racism and slavery. The other set of people saw it not as racism but as heritage and sacrice and service. If i had gone and condemned those peop that saw it that way, that flag neve would have come down. Insteai had to acknowledge the thoughts of both and say, but now its timeor our state to move forward. And through those actions, i called for the Confederate Flag to come down, and it came down. And, you know, if you go aroundi ing people for their views, theyre not gonna listen yo you, much less work wit i needed to let them know, i understan that thats how you feel. Thats how they felt. Understood and we had to find a way for them to feel like they were part of this decision for the betterment of soh carolina. My question, i think, ishe toeritagenothate crowd. You know, theres a certain ting of, in the early 60s began to reemergesymbols throughout the south after the brown v. Board of education decision, before the Civil Rights Act when the south was, frankly or, elements of the south were, frankly, trying to resist the federagovement forcing racial equality upon them. Kn yo, as a woman of color who grew up in the aftermath of that, how do you square that withhe thtagenothate messaging . Well, i mean, i think it wasa. I mean, in South Carolina, it was very tough because thisha issubeen debated for decades. And so when you have them you know, it was their view that this was their heritage, and they thought that even though that heritage was resurrected explicitly around a te of resisting racial integration. Oh, absolutely it was, which why the confederate fla never shouldve been there in the first place. And so having that conversation of you can respect your heritage but you can do it in a museum and not out in front of that, what i tried tomore than communicate to the people of South Carolina is, no one should drive past that statehouse and feel pain. And if someone, if a childup lookt that flag and feels pain, and that was the goal. Wrong. That was, at the end of the day, was to make sure that the pain i felt growing up in a blackandwhild shouldnt be t same pain of a child growing up today looking at that statehouse. Gonna ask about the future of the Republican Party. You talk about your son from time to tim and i think about the millennial generation and how they think about politics. Where the Republican Party is now is not in a place where its speaking to the generation of your son. The values, the sensibilits. What is it going to take to motivate and capture the imaginationn of your generation to the ideas that you espouseep as alican . Well, i think that first of all, i think the next generati, i have so much hope for, because i go around and talk to high school and colleges they know the power of their voice. Theyre gonna use it. We have to make sure wget the right information in front of them so that they have the facts to dthat. But i think the Republican Party should always want to get better, and i think, in order for the republican par to get strong now, they have to go places that are uncomfortable tgo. They have to talk to people theyve never talked to before. When i go to the tha indianamerican communities or the jewish communities, in so many ways, they espouse republican values,b and thieve in republican values. But because weve never shown up to them, becau weve never gone and listened to them, theres less likelihood that ey come and join our party, and i think we need to start communicating differently. We need to really puelves out there and explain why we believe what we believe. But more importantly, before we say that, we need to listen to what theyare about and then put our values with what they care about. And i see that in thyounger generation that we do have this group of strong, young republicans that get it. But we have to lift them up so that they can go out and tell the rest of their friends, as ll. With all due respect, to borrow a phrase. Yes. Is. Oesnt feel like what the leadership p p p s party is doing right now, what you just scribed. Well, i think that it should not be about one person. It should be aut an entire group of people saying what we care about. The bullyulpit of the presidency is the most important sort of speaker phone is not broadcasting the solution that you just outlined. And i think we have to do that. I think that we if we ta our voice and our way of doing things and match it with the results of th president , i think thats how we and you may not agan party back. With his style, and i tell people that all the time. His style is not my ste. But his results are my results. Those are the things we want. We wanmore people to have jobs. We want to see the economy continue to grow. Want to have a strong standing in the world as we move forward. We want to take on the nex proble of the next generation and handle it with strength an with dignity and with grace. And so there is a way to come out of thiwhere we can continue to have our values but change the styleio and communicin the way we do that. Is the title, with all due respect, intended to be a message to young women . I think it became a message to young women, and what i hopeg it reminds yen and women is, no one is going to protect your integrity but yourself. And when something happens that even tries to undermine it, you have to speak up. Yo. Have to fight for yourse because if you dont fight for yourself, no one else will. Nikki haley, thank you for comingo firing line. Thanks so much. Firing line with Margaret Hoover is made possible by. Additional funding is provided by. Corpate funding is provided by. Youre watching pbs. The people who gave the money to make Mister Rogers neighborhood are the people of this and other. And. Its a Beautiful Day in this neighborod a Beautiful Day for a neighbor would you be mine . Could you be mine . Its a neighborly day in this beauty wood