Rice i did not support that agreement. Abrubenstein lets talk t vladimir putin. Rice i know him well. He liked me. Rubenstein what are the qualities that you thi great leaders actually have . Rice a sense ility about what they can achieve. Woman wou fix your tie, please . Rubenstein well, people wouldnt recognize me if my tie was fixed, but ok. Just leave it this way. All right. I dont consider myself a journalist, d nobody else would consider myself a journalist. I ofgan to take on the lifeeing, even though i have a day job of running a private equity firm. How do you define leadership . What is it that makes somebody tick . If President Trump called you and said, i really need you to come in and help your country, what would you say . Rice i would say, mr. President , there are so onderful people who can help our country, and heres my number in palo alto, and d me a call if theres anything you want to talk about, but im really, really happy. Rubenstein from time to time, your name has been mentioned as a vice presential candidate and a president ial candate, and can you say for sure that youre not likely to run for either those positions . Rice i can say that with even mo certainty because you have to know your dna, and i dont have the dna of a politician. I love policy, dont lo politics. It is just innervating for me. Rubenstein you grew up initially in birmingham, alabama, in a segregated south, birmingham, alabama, church bombing. Did you ever think that from a segregatedsouth beginning sethat you would ever p to hold these kind of positions that you held . Rice never occurred to me but more because i thought i was gonna rise up and be a great concert pianist. No. My parents were people who had me convinced that, even if i couldnt have a hamburger of the United States if i wanted to be, so in my family, you were going to achieve. You were going to go to college. David, im notthe first phd in my family. Rubenstein ur father ha. Rice; my father and my aunt theresa, my fathers sister, and i always say, nd you think what i do is of, she wrote books on dickens, of all things. Rubenstein so you were an only child . Rice i was an only child. Focused a lot on you. Rice yeah, definitely. Rubenstein and you had all the lessons that youan have. You were a ballerina. Rice every lesson known to humankind, some of which i was good at and some owhich i wasnt, but they kept me going. I had french lessons. My mother decided that every wellbred, youngirl should speak french, so at 9 years old, i was dragged off to french lessons on saturdays. I had ballet lessons. We had equette lessons. I was, of course, a piist, so, yeah, my parents kept me very, very busy. Nstein now, your mother was a schoolteacher . Rice my mother was a teacher and also a musician. Rubenstein and one of her students, i understand, was willie mays. Rice my mom taught willie mays in high school. Rubenstein he a good student, or rice i asked him once. He said, oh, i remember miss ray. He saie told me, now, son, youre gonna be a ballplayer, so if you need to leave a little early, you go ahead and do that, and i thought, adoesnt sound exactlyu need to lelike my mother,rly, but thats a great story, so im gonna hold on to it. Rubenstein ok. Now,father was a republican. Rice yes. He was. In the earlylaifties in birmingham inma, there really werent many republicans, so the way that it happened was, my father and my mother before they were marriednt dow, and the pollheester looked at my f big, tall man, football playerand said, so how many beans are in this jar . And, of course, my father couldnt answer the question, so he said, you dont pass the test, so my father went backo his church, and he was telling this story to a man who wamrone of his elders, anhunter said, oh, reverend, dot worry about it. He said, ill tell you how to get registered. He said, you go down there, and theres a clerk whos a publican. He said, now, shes trying to build the republican party, and if youll just say youre a republican, shell register you, so my fatherent down, and he said he was a republican. He got registered. He never forgot it. He remained a republican threst of his life. Rubenstein you took up piano when you were 15 or or earlier . Rice i took up piano when i was 3. Rubenstein 3 . Rice yes. Right. Great advantage to learning to play that early is that i could read music before i could read. It was like a native language, and so ive always been a reallysightreader because its just natural for me to read the notes. R rubenstein have you e though prominent you could be if you h been a classical pianist, not a secretary of state . Rice i maybe, you know, probably would have en one of those people playing in the Department Store while you shop. Rubenstein youve played with yoyo ma. What is that like . Ricey i was national securvisor, and my secretary came in and said, yoyo ma is on the phoneor you. I said, ou mean the greatest living cellist . And she said, yes, and he was getting the National Medal of the arts, and he wanted me to play with him, and so we played for 2,500 people at constitutiohall, and it was wonderful, one of the highlights of my life, but i wasnt confused. I didnt play with yoyo ma because i was the worlds greatest pianist. I playh yoyo ma because i was the National Security advisor and could play the piano, so it cameogether. Rubenstein but he held up his own . Rice he held up his end of the bargain. Yes. U rubenstein you went versity of denver, and when you went there, Madeleine Albrights father, whod been a verus ternational political scientist, was your teacher. Rice well, he was the one who got me into international politics. I actually went to d. U. As a piano major but graduated with just enough units e a Political Science major. If you look at my transcript, ive got 100 units of music and 45 in Political Science. Rubenstein all right, so you then went to notre dame to get a masters, anrdthen you went to stanater . Rice i went to stanford on a oneyear fellowship in the arms control and Disarmament Program learning the physics of Nuclear Weapons and how many warheads could dance on the head of an ss18. I learand something very impofrom that experience. Stanford was looking to diversify its faculty, and it engaged in what i think is a very smart way to do affirmative action, and to this day, i believe affirmesive action is still nry, which means you look outside of your normal channels to find people. They had in their midst a young, black woman who was a soviet specialist, and they offered me a job. They said very, very firmly, when it comes time for your reappointment, which is after 3 years, the fact that you came through this appointment will mean nothing at all. I remember saying, oh, 3 years. That sounds about right. Thatll give me time to see if i like you and time to see if you like me, which i dont think a dean at stanforhad ever heard from a prospective assistant professor. Ruin and the affirmative action was that you were a Classical Music performer, as well. Ruithey had none of those. Action was that you were rice they had none of those, as well. Rubenstein you were recruited to come lk the George Herbert Bush White House staff. Rice administration. Right. I went to be the white house soviet scialist and got lucky enough to be the white house soviet specialist at the end of the cold war. Rubenstein so you were there rubenstein and did you go in to the president and say, rice i did. I was one of the people. The minute that the berlin wall fell, a bunch of us went over to the oval office. Mr. President , you have to go to berlin. You have to go for kennedy. You have to go for truman. You have to go for reagan, and he looked at us, and he said, what would i do, dance on the wall . He said, this is a german moment, not an american moment, and ill never forget that because it was just so much george h. W. Bush selfeffacing, modest, a great sense of humility, and it washe right thing. Was absolutely right. Rubenstein you saw him recently. You were at the barbara bush funeral. Rubenstein and did you have a chance to talk to him at that time . Rice i did. I did. A chance to talk to him and tell him how much i love him and loved mrs. Bush. Theythats a generation thats going to be missed. Thd were people who underst ky and gentility. They made their mistakes, most certainly, att when you think about amily and what george h. W. Bush did as a public servan it makes you think of a wonderful time for our country. And in the 1992 election, he defeated your boss. Rice right. Rubenstein were you shocked by the outcome . Rice i was. Id already go back to stanford. Rubenstein oh, you had. Rice i became provost. I was surprised, but he had done what he needed to do, and i dont think there will ever be a full accnting of how much it was the way that he did the diomacy at the end of the cold war with respect for gorbachev, never humiliating the soviet union, not dancing on the wall. One of the last things gorbachev did re he went out to sign the paper that would collapse the soviet union and allow boris yeto become president of russian federation, he called george h. W. Bush, and he said, we did good things, didnt we . History will js well, and i said to president bush, do you realize how extraordinary this is . Well, he was geow. Bush. He said, well, i never thought about it. I said, that the president of the soviet union in his last act before the collapse of the soviet union called the american president essentially to seek s affirmation . That was a very big deal, but thats the way he was. Rubenstein another member of the geor hbert walker bush family decides to run for president george w. Rice yes. Rubenstein u become the National Security advisor, the first urman to be national sy advisor. Rice yes. Rubenstein so youre there, and then 9 11 happens. Rice ye rubenstein so wherere there, and were you on 9 11 . Rice 9 11, i was at my desk. Youll remember that president bush wasctually at that event in florida, the education event, and, just to show you our pre9 11 thinking, ati did not go with hima, the edthat day. Vent, my assistant came in, said a pne had hit the world trade center. First, we thought it was an accident. I called predent bush. Then a few minutes later, we learned the second plane had hit the worle center. We knew now it was a terrorist attack and then just a procession over the day and really the next several months of just hobson choice after hobson choice the United States had not been attacked on its own territory since the war of 1812. We had no structures, no institutions for internal security for the country. It was flying without a compass. Rubenstein so you led the effort, among others, to get Osama Bin Laden, but was it frustrating that he escaped from tora bora, and do you think if youd d a Different Military structure, more troops there, you could have captured him . Rice if anybody had said to president bush, Osama Bin Laden is at tora bora, and we need the following to get him, ey would have gotten what they needed. The tora bora ghost that people talk about of Osama Bin Laden, there was never really, from our point of view, actual evidce that he was there, and by the time that anybody knew about it, it was too late, and so, yes, it was frustrating, and it was f gstrating that we couldn him, but what we concentrated on and i think it worked king that layer out of the field generals for alqaeda because they were operating like a pnitty sophisticated ortion, and the field general for north america was Khalid Sheikh mohammed, and wh we finally captured Khalid Sheikh mohammed, we felt we knew their battle plan and what was coming next. It was the first time anybody could actually sleep at night, and i said to my students that capturing Khalid Sheikh mohaed during world war ii, and they looked at me puzzled, so that just says a little bit abt how were teaching history in the high schools. Rubensteinequently, president bush decided to invade iraq to topple saddam hussein, so in light of hindsight and had you known there were no weapons of mass destruction, would you have gone forward . Rice well, you know, i always say to pele, but not what you did yesterday, as all the intelligence agencies around the world did, that he had weapons of mass destruction, that he was reconstituting them, that he was ing it quickly, and it was on that basis that we decided that you finally had to do what the international communy had been threatening to do, which was to have serious consequences. Etrospect, i dont know if we had known, what we would have done. I wi this. I still think the worlds better off without saddam hussein. He was a cancer in the region, and while iraq went throug an extraordinarily difficult time and the thing i would do differently is how we rebuilt iraq. I think e a lot of mistakes postwar, but i will say this. I would rather be iraqi than sian today, and iraq has a chance now to be a stabilizing element an accountable government. The iraqi kurds and baghdad are finally finding some way of dealing with one another, and its a very different place, and the arab spring was going to happen, and i think iraq wouldche made syria look likds play, so you neven know what youve prd. Youll never be able to bring back the lives lost, and youll never be able to deal with that, but i think in the long arc of history, iraq will turn out ok, and i wish we hadnt left in 2011. The one thing that might have made me think differently about it was to think that we would have not stayed with a few troopkein iraq to help them he transition. You become secretary of state. Rice yes. Rice i loved it. I loved going out and representing the country. Every time i stepped plane that said, the United States of america, behind me, i just got chills abait it, and ive often that, you know, it was a lite bit like when i was actually sworn in. Here, i took an oath of office to a constitution, as weve talked, that once counted my ancestors as 3 5 of a man, and i take that oath of office in front of rait of ben franklin, sworn in by a jewish Woman Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader ginsberg, who was my neighbor at the watergate and i thought, you know, what would old ben think of this . Right, because in some ways, it showed how far our y had come, and i always felt when i was out there that i could speak about the hard road to dem, about the importance of institutions ovcoming more inclusive time to people who were having those challenges because i personally experienced them. Rubenstein lets talk about todays situation. We fe a north korean problem. You negotiated with the North Koreans. Rice i did. Rubenstein what would you say is the chances that north korea and the United States and south korea can come to some agreement . Rice well, i have to say, when the president i first heard that the preptdent had on the spot ac kim jonguns invitation, i thought, oh, my goodness, what was he doing . And then i thought, you know, nothing else has worked, so why not . Why not give it a try . And i actually think theyve set the table pretty well. E of the conditions thats different is that once kim jonguns programs got to the place that they actually threatened the United States, as theyve begun to do, i think it got chinas attention that the United States might actually go to war to prevent a north Korean Leader from being able to threaten the United States, so i think theyve g a chance. I would just say 3 things. The first is, the North Koreans have a history of when theyre under sanctions and they start to bite, coming to the table, making promises, and then not carrying through with them, so bewa. Secondly, be very cognizant of other countries interests. You know, japan has big interests here. Dont be very quick to try to think about removing american troops because american troops inin korea on the korean pla are stabilizing not just to the korean peninsula, t also to the region, and finally, never forget the nature of that regime. , this is a regime that murdered an american just a few several months ago, with vx gas in malaysia, which, by the way, was a message to the chinese. He was underhinese protection. Word on the street was, he was chinas favorite son if something happened to kim jongun, so that was a message to the chinese, not to us. Ifrubenstein now,ned on the iranian agreement that was negotiated by john kerry and barack obama, did you support that agreement . Rice i did not support that agreement. I felt that it was an agreement that gave the iranians too much at a time when, i think, we had the upper hand and ve gotten much more. I also thought the verification means were very weak, so i wouldnt have signed the agreement, but i have said, i wouldve probably stad in it because once youre in an agreement, you dont want to send the signal that the United States but it wont be the end of the world. Rubenstein lets talk about vladimir putin. Youve met him many times. Rice i have, many times. Rubenstein and does he speak english . Rice he was teaching himself or had tutors teac tng him english, and time we left office, he could converse a little bit in english, t, yeah, i know him well. He liked me, actually used to because i was a russianist. I once was with him, and he said, condi, you know this. A has only been great when its been ruled by great men, like peter the great and alexder ii. You think, ok, and vladimir the great. Is that the message here . But thats whoe thinks he is. He thinks hes reunitingea s and reestablishing russian influence, even if to do it by military means, which is really the only thing theyve got going for them. Rubenstein on china, do you have any doubt that xi jinping is the most powerful leader in the world at this point . Rice i have no doubt, but i think hes made a terrible mistake. You know, authoritarians have a lotf downsides. One is that they can make very effient carrying out of bad policy onechild policy efficiently carried out, but now 34 million chinese men dont have mes, right . The other thing authoritarians dont have is a way to peacefully transfer power and to keep people from becoming president for life. Well, actually, the Chinese Communist party had solved this. Well, actually, the Chinese Communist party you got two terms, and then you were out. They had term limits on age, anthen you were out, with at least a president and a premier, and xi jinping in one fell swoop has gotten rid of all that, so some of the institutional safeguards against authoritarianism going bad hes actually unraveled, and i think its china whos gonna pay for that. Rubenstets talk for a moment about nonforeign policy matters, talk about athletics. You were one of the first two women to be admitted to augusta national. Rice i was indeed. Rubenstein was that a surprise to you . Rice a torprise, came totally out of the blue when somebody came and offered me membership, and twas so stunned, i diay anything, and he said, you are gonna say yes, arent you . And i said, yeah. Oh, yeah. Im in, yes. Rubenstein and were you a golfer . Are you a good golfer . Rice i am a golfer. Arem an ok golfer. Fer . I started late. I was a competitive figure skater as a kid and then a very serious tennis player. I took up golf the summer i was secretary of state, didnt play very much,us but i love it, and, yeah, im a decent golfer w. Rubenstein eh . Rice good putter. Rubensteat now, you once said ou wouldnt mind being the nfl commissioner. Is that still your ambition . Rice no. I told roger goodell, whos a good friend of mine, i said, you know, rogerwheg about the iranians and the russians every day, your job looked pretty good, esnt look so good from northern california. Rubenstein so now, since you left government, youve written 4 books and a new book about the Political Riskat busie should take into account when theyre making business decisions. Why is this an important consideration . Rice when people used to think about Political Risk, thoc thought largely of thelist dictator who might expropriate your property or nationalize your industry. Of thelist dictator now the sources of Political Risk are multiple, and theyre sometimes surprising. A person who gets on your airplane and sees your flight attendants treat somebody poorly and has just a cell phone and documents it, united airlines, thats Political Risk. A supply chain thats deep into china and now theres consideration of a trade war with china, thats a Political Risk, and so what we wanted to do was to say there was lots skof sources of political look around corners. Look at your industry and say, what are my sources of Political Risk, and, oh, by the way, whats my Risk Appetite . Because we didnt want to say, e dont do things becaeyre risky, and, by the way, cyber is i mentioe russians. Cyber is a whole category of risk in and of itself. What would you like people to think of shas your major accompnt . Gory of risk in and of itself. Rice my government career. I just hope that people think that i represented o values, especially that we stand for people who have no voice for themselves, er that people who are sug in jail cells and putting their lives on the line for the very rights that we almost start to take for granted you can say what you think and worship as you please and be free from the knock ofecret police at night that we advocated for that and we believed that no corner of the earth should live in tyranny, and i think we madulsome progress as a r and people still, wthink, think about whdid in the middle east or transrmational diplomacy trying to be about peoples lives, and then final, david, just on my academic career, i hope that people think that i helped a whole new gene of kids, many generations of kids, find themselves and recognize that it wasnt evemy job to tell them what to think. It was my job to make sure that they thought in a rigorous and systematic way and that maybe aeaders that i trained will take that to the leadership. Rubenstein youve obviously seen great leaders around the world and the United States. What are the qualities that you think great leaders actually have and the qualities that people who arent great leaders fail to have . Rice well, integritys at the center of being a great leader. Once you lose peoples trust, you have nothing. I thinargreat leaders are visis, and i mean by ththat they sd as it should be, not as it is. I think of nelson mandela, and i think, did he not think, well, when we finally are in power, blacks are gonna dominate whites, rather than thinking of a multiracial, multiethnic south africa that would be for all south africans . Most importantly, i think great leaders have a sense of humility about what they can achieve. Rubenstein humility. Rice humility. Rubenstein versus arrogance. Rice versus arrogance. Rubenstein right. Rice arrogance and hubris are recipes for disaster. My parents were great people. They always taught me that youeed personally to do 3 things if yourgoing to lead and if youre going to be successful. The first thing is, try to be twice as good. In other words, work hard enough to be confident that youve worked hargh to be twice as good. Secondlyand remember, im growing up in segd birmingham, alabama, so they were trying to armor me in some ways. Secondly, nensider yourself a victim because when you think ure a victim, youve given control of your lifeo somebody else. You may not be able to control your circumstances, but you can contur response to your circumstances, and then something that i tell particularly minority kids and women and others who are from populations that have been in one way or another marginalized, my father once said to me, you know, if somebody doesnt want to sit next to you because youre black, heats fine as long asmove. In other words, dont take somebody elses prejudice on its their fault, their problem, not your problem, and so dont be disabled by people who may have prejudice. Rubenstein right. Well, look. I wantank you for your time. Thank you for your service to our country. Rice thank you. [app announcer support for the pbs presentation of thisrogram was provided by general motors. I see a future. I see a good future. I see a future filled with roads and no rage. We see a future. With zero crashes. Woman i see a future where fossil fuels man are a thing of the past. We seeure with zero emissions. I see a future where traffic. Keeps perfect time. Where intelligence is always design. We see a future with zero congestion. Zero constion. We are. We are. We are. General motors. We are. We are. Youre watching pbs. Hes the filmmaker r famous for taking on the establishment and president s this week onli iring. I am here to make a citizens arrest. Notxactly known for shying away from an opinion. We want our money back . Michael moore has gone after the gun industry. Sweet. The American Healthcare system. These are 9 11 rescue workers. They just want some medical attention. And more than one presiden oh, hi. George bush spent the rest of august at the ranch. We live in a time. When moore won an academy award, he was booed for bringing his politics to the. Osca shame on you, mr. Bush shame on you. Nt the fmichigan, native took another contrarian position back in the summer of 2016. I think trump is gonna win. I im sorry. He was right. Firing lineel moore say now . With Margaret Hoover is made ss
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