Information to prove the kind of Economic Growth well get with all our tax revisions. Robert democrats say the g. O. P. Plan is a gift to the rich that will raise taxes on middle income families and scale back Health Insurance coverage. Meanwhile this is an effort by Mitch Mcconnell and his croneis to steal this election if the people of alabama and they will not stand for it. Robert tense fallout sur rounding jouge roy moores past and his potential future if elected to the senate. He will not step down. Robert and democratic senator al franken faces an ethics investigation amid accusations of sexual misconduct. We discuss it all with Jackie Calmes of the laz times, Jeremy Peters of the new york times, nancy cordes of cbs news and ed okeefe of the washington post. Celebrating 50 years, this is Washington Week. Funding is provided by their leadership is instinctive. They understand the challenges of today. And research the technologies of tomorrow. Some call them veterans. We call them part of our team. Additional funding is provided by newmans own foundation, donating all profits from newmans own Food Products to charity and nourishing the common good. The ethics and excellence in journalism foundation. The yuen foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities. The corporation for public broadcasting. And contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you, thank you. Once again, live from washington, moderator robert costa. Robert good evening. After weeks of fits and start the house passed a tax without bill tax cut bill on thursday moving President Trump and republicans a step closer to their first major legislative win of the year. The action now moves to the senate where there are glimmers of trouble with democrats and some resistance from republicans. The stakes are high and the schedule is tight with christmas the informal deadline. Nancy, whats fascinating about whats happening on capitol hill, its a return to traditional fault lines. Core Republican Values like tax cuts to core democratic values. Is that whats at the heart of the debate. . Nancy this is a fight that was going on long before obamacare was a word that had been uttered in the halls of congress. It came to a crescendo on thursday night when you had orrin hatch, a conservative and sherrod brown, finally, after 25 hours of debating this g. O. P. Tax plan had it out. Brown made the case this is a giveaway to wealthy, to corporation, that trickle down economics doesnt work and the middle class will see its taxes going up. Orrin hatch and other republicans on the panels say all boats will be lifted by this. This will put businesses in a better position, make them more competitive and that means more jobs for everybody. Robert what changes in this bill as it heads to the senate . One thing that may not change is the cut of the corporate from 30 to 25 . With sometimes whats not in there tells you what the bill is all about. That stays as is in the house plan. The two biggest things that will be seized upon in the coming weeks is the fact that the senate is adding reneefl individual mandate, the cornerstone of the Affordable Care act, to this bill in part to generate some revenue. And to make it easier to pass in the senate under the weird rules they have to use in regards to how much it can cost. A bunch of senators in both parties said, wait, guy well, litigated this already, why are we doing this again . However, most Republicans Holding firm to that idea. The other one that sticks out to me that i think will be an issue once they go back to the house with the compromise version is that it would eliminate all deductions for state and local taxes or salt they call it. The house compromise was that you can deduct 10,000 of your property taxes. The senate doesnt have that at all. This is partly because big, hightax states, california, new york, wril, new jersey, massachusetts, they dont have a republican serving in the senate. But in the house, there are almost three dozen republicans representing suburban communities in those states who went to leaders and said you cannot make me vote for this or expect me to vote for it an also see me get reelected. So those are the two, i think, bigger ones. The other problem in the senate of course is just the politics. Its a narrow margin. Youve got three to six republican senators whose votes are still unknown at this point for various reasons. Robert what does it mean if that happens . If that Obamacare Mandate is repealed, what does it mean if youre an american who counts on those subsidies or funding . Jackie it is the reason the joint committee on taxation said that people who make from 10,000 to 30,000 a year will in effect not get a tax cut and people doctor 75,000 and under eventually wont either. Theyre losing the tax credit for the Health Coverage and the subsidies and you know, the republicans are arguing well thats not really a tax increase for them because its just making people, as someone said, not having to pay for crappy Health Insurance. Well, but now theyre going to be uninsured and so this comes back to all of us where theyre going to be back in the Emergency Rooms to get their coverage. Theyre not going to have Insurance Coverage to get their care. And the rest of us are going to be paying higher pleem yums and higher costs in the hospitals because of the fact that these people will become once again what republican senator chuck grass lee used to call free riders back in the years when republicans were for an individual mandate for the very reason that people had to take responsibility and get health care coverage. They were free riders because they were just going to e. R. s or getting free health care. So this is the this is where the Health Care Bill debate has gotten conflated with the tax debate. But it is it is an it affects cost of living and quality of life. Robert when you look at why theyre intertwined, jeremy, you have to ask why, why are republicans moving on health care as well as moving on taxes . Sit because the base wants it . You cover breitbart and the base so closely you interviewed steve bannon recently are they clamoring for whats happening on capitol hill . Jeremy not really. In the abstract people like the idea of a tax cut. But you see this poll that just came out the other day, 16 of americans think it will actually cut their taxes. That should fright ven every republican on capitol hill. Right now. With regard to the Health Care Mandate though, the reason theyre doing that, the reason its in the senate bill is, they need to pay for this somehow. Its also satisfying to the base. To your point. Seven years went by. Republicans said, put us in the seat, we will deliver. They tried, they failed, its still not clear to me theyll be able to do it next year. So they needed to have this in there as kind of a demonstration, oge, well give it one more shot. In the end, though, you dont hear many people talking about it. Its not part of the conversation around the tax debate. By and large. Because most people realize its not going to happen. Interestingly, originally it was the president who said, why dont you throw a reneefl individual mandate in there, that way you can bring the top rate down from 39. 5 to 35 . Republicans balked at that because they said were getting slammed for making this a big boon to the wealthy. Getting rid of the individual mandate, which by and large helps low income people and doing that to bring rich peoples taxes dun is the no is not going to fly. They decided what we can do is bump up the tax cut for middle income americans and double the tax the child tax credit. So thats what that money is going toward. Trying to lift it out at this point would really put them in a big fiscal bind. Jeremy pointed out that the reason they did this was not just to salvage their promise to repeal obamacare but to bet money from not paying out those subsidies anymore so they could pay for more tax cuts. Even so the fact remains that these bills will add 1. 5 trillion over 10 years in the first 10 years to the debt. I thought they were going to pay for themselves, isnt that the theory. Find me a credible economist that says that. I saw larry thomas doing an interview saying its just a fantasy to assume these tax cuts will generate so much growth theyll generate growth. They will generate some Economic Growth. Theyve done this to get more money for tax cuts yet the tax cuts for individuals expire in 2025 when the Corporate Tax cuts are permanent. In the senate plan. And you know what the democrats are doing when republicans voted for this, when the tally was called . Byebye. They are convinced this is going to cause a huge wave. Youve combined raising taxes potentially on lower income and middle income americans, plus in the senate, youre causing once again the unpopular prospect of ending the individual mandate. Robert if youre bob casey, senator, democrat, from pennsylvania, or joe donnelly, in a state trump won big, why arent you tempted . They are tempted to help make a deal. They are eager and willing to sit with republicans and do it. But now especially with the individual mandate repeal added back they said no deal. No way. Because look at the polling just a few weeks ago in virginia, new jersey, and all those other local races across the country. Whats the number one domestic concern . Preservering mess or messing too much with health care. Democrats know its a rallying issue for them. And they have not been part of the negotiations in a serious way from the beginning because republicans believe that they can pass this tax plan without democrats. And so democrats offered, god knows how many amendments over the past week in the Senate Finance committee and zero were approved. So theres no incentive on the republicans part to negotiate with democrats and therefore no incentive for democrats to what about the deficit hawks . Senator flake, senator corker they broke with President Trump, they dont like the way this adds more than 1. 3 trillion to the deficit. Senator lankford of oklahoma is also concerned about this. They understand the hypocrisy of it. These are guys who ran on a message of tea party fiscal austerity and now theyre talking about adding trillions and trillions and trillions to the debt but by passing this mass i tax cut. They understand that its bad politics. And not only is it bad politics but voters dont seem to understand what theyre getting out of this. Republicans feel like theyll be punished if they dont pass something so they need to pass something or so they told themselves. But im not sure that the benefit of passing anything vealy all that great because as nanity nancy pointed out, the public doesnt feel, theyre not asking for a tax cut. They want their health care. They want a job. They want their country not to be nuked by north korea. 4 of people in the last poll i saw listed tax cuts as their major concern. If i could just add to that, its just the this is a Corporate Tax cut. Thats what it is. And when you to your argument at the outset of this discussion that this is a traditional tax debate and republicans right up republicans alley, that this was the fact its not what donald trump promised. He promised a populist plan that would, for individuals. And i would say jeremy bringing up the deficit. In 2025, when individual tax cuts expire, and people all the republicans are say, oh, theyll be extended. Theyre not going to let taxes go up for people. The debt, the federal debt in 2025 will be 25 billion even without this tax cut which is 90 of g. D. P. And the big democratic concern is this is just phase one. Phase two is next year republicans say, oh, look at what a hole we put in the budget with these tax cuts now we need to start cutting services, we need to start cutting medicare and medicaid and social security. Were going to keep a close eye on all this. Well have to see if they can get it done by the holiday. Robert im not planning any vacation. I dont know about all of you. For the moment, lets turn to another controversy. On capitol hill. Not more controversial than taxes. This is Republican Senate candidate roy moore. Former alabama judge continues to deny the allegations against him as more women come forward accusing him of inappropriate sexual advances and misconduct over the past 30 years. During a News Conference in birmingham, moore accused Senate LeaderMitch Mcconnell of trying to steal the election from the voters of alabama. Mcconnell says he believes moores accusers and suggested the Republican Senate candidate would face an ethics probe if elected. Jeremy, i want to pull up something you wrote. It tells me so much about where we are. This is in the new york times. This was theres after time you wrote when the question of whether to disown a candidate accused of sexually abusing a 14yearold girl was fairly straightforward. But the divisions in the Republican Party run so deep that its now become a proxy fight. Thats what i want to talk about with yo uh. This fight this question about roy moore. Its now become something about the base of the party versus mcconnell. Its not so much about moore. Jeremy its not. Moore is a standin character. Weve seen this happen in race after race for the antiestablishment. He represents to them a he represents to the base a big middle i think ifer to Mitch Mcconnell. And thats basically what you have here. Thats what donald trump was to a much larger degree. So i think that what roy moore can do is get what he is doing is once again resetting the parameters of civility and lowering the bar in terms of what americans will expect from the candidates that they elect. And this is really bad. Somebody who is accused, some very credible accusations of being essentially a sexual predator. And there are enough voters out there in alabama say, you know what, we hate Republican Leadership so much that thats our guy. And the democrat, doug jones is gaining. And republicans on capitol hill, ive spoken to, have said that really the only thing they think at this point can get to moore or to the Republican Party leadership in alabama, which is still backing him, is if President Trump were really to step in. Hes not, though. He is not. I shouted many questions to him this week about whether he believed moores accusers, whether he thought moore should get out of the race. I know a lot of other reporters did too. He did not touch it. He did not want to talk to microphones. The challenge for mcconnell right now is big. Governor ivey, female republican governor of alabama, says she supports moore. Shes not going to call some kind of different election or ask Luther Strange to resign. His hands are tied. They are. You spark this fight that infuriates the base even more to vote for moore and then he gos to the senate. And by mcconnells estimation he then faces an ethics probe. So for potentially the next year you immediately have a freshman senator facing all sorts of salacious allegations the press and public will want to hear about. And democrats will run on it. He will immediately become a poster child for the Republican Party and every other Senate Candidate across the country will say, senator x stands with roy moore. How can you vote for this party. Flip side gets even worse. Chambers become even more nearly divided if jones wins. Itll become even more impossible to pass significant legislation. Its not a good time to be Mitch Mcconnell. The irony is Mitch Mcconnell is the villain in this to the moore supporters, and yet you mention the governor of alabama. She said explicitly that the reason shes going to support him is vote for him is because she thinks we need to have a Republican Senate in order to confirm judges and get more Neil Gorsuches on the court. The irony is that neil gorsuch would not be on the court but for Mitch Mcconnell who held that seat open for an entire year by not giving barack obama a vote. And i have to say, i continue to this day to be puzzled as to why the conservative right, the evangelical right, does not give Mitch Mcconnell more credit. Proxy war. He can make a credible cause that hes a big reason that President Trump got elected. Buzz in the suburbs of philadelphia and other cities, republicans who are moderates and might not have liked donald trump very much went to the polls and voted for him anyway because they said this is about the supreme court. Theres an opening on supreme court. That was engineered by Mitch Mcconnell. Does dough jones, the democrat, have a chance . Looks like it. One of the best, we call them live caller polls done this week on behalf of fox news by a bipartisan firm, found him ahead. And also curiously if you dive into the numbers, if you look at the Favorability Ratings for the president , jeff sessions, Luther Strange, incumbent who lost the primary, and former president barack obama, who has the best numbers in the state of alabama right now . Apparently former president obama. Doesnt that make you think the poll is suspect . I had somebody raise some red flags to me. Not that i think that, by any means, well, i dont know. Think about it this way. If you are an alabaman, right now, youre inclined to vote for moore. Youre probably changing your mind daytoday. Do i believe the washington post. Sorry. Do i want do i want to give Mitch Mcconnell a victory . Or do i want to stand by the guy i know will stand up to the very political system that i feel is bad. It becomes a political calculation more than thabttheabt accusations of women putting their name on the accusations. I think its entirely political. Lets stick with this topic. While the president has avoided publicly addressing the allegations against moore , he did he didnt shy away from commenting on the explosive accusations of Sexual Harassment against democratic senator al franken. Radio host and former model said the comedian forcibly kissed her and groped her while the two were part of an overseas u. S. O. Tour a decade ago. Franken issued an apology that said in part, i dont know what was in my head when i took that picture and it doesnt matter. Theres no excuse. I look at it now and feel disgusted with myself. Whats more, i can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it. Franken has promised to cooperate with an Ethics Committee investigation. Hours later, President Trump commented on the accusations via twitter, write, the Al Frankenstein picture is really bad, speaks a thousand words. Nancy, youve been covering this all week. The fallout for franken, hes still there. It shows both parties are implicated in this National Debate discussion about the important issue of sexual conduct. Absolutely. Senators from both sides were quick to come out and say that he was right to apologize, that it was disgusting what he did and that they believed his accuser. And that they supported an ethics investigation. I think the question when it comes to his future in the senate is, a, does anyone else come forward, and bmbing, whats his record in the senate . We called around to more than a dozen of his former staffers, all of them said he had always behaved professionally around them. That he was very supportive of women. Very appropriate around women. And that they felt that he was a good boss. So obviously thats important to. So theyve come out, theyve come out in support of him. So far no one else has made an accusation against him. Its gone beyond franken. Senator jill brand of new york told the new york times, i believe, that now she believes president bill clinton should have resigned over the Monica Lewinsky incident in the late 1990s. Thats been revived as an issue. It was revived a year ago by thencandidate trump when he was trying to distract from allegations against him. You know, its fair game but its going back that far, its you know one good thing about it is going back that far shows that this isnt just a recent phenomenon. So that is good. Its also not just about politics, because this actually started with Harvey Weinstein and its gotten people in sports and business. Im sure nancy and i could share notice, we could tell you this is not just this is not just in politics, although it is in politics. Its pretty bad in politics. In a hearing this week they spent millions on settlements of harassment cases on capitol hill. Ed may know better than i, that list of settlements got a social play on social media is paid out for cases against members of congress but its not just sex harassment. It includes wage and hour dispute, family leave, disability, so its we dont how much of that is about Sexual Harassment. I think we need to keep one thing in mind here. This is it is quite amazing first of all how quickly the senate closed ranks on franken and said this is unacceptable and youll face an ethics probe. This was sparked because earlier in the week mcconnell had said if roy moore gets elected to the senate, we will immediately launch an Ethics Committee investigation. The precedent had been set he knew right away, if its that way for roy moore it has to be that way for franken. I want to make this point. Early in the week, mcconnell, without fail, without hesitation made very clear, i believe the women. He doesnt like roy moore he doesnt want to see moore in the senate. Hes doing everything he can to stop him. But i think seeing one of the most senior political leaders in this country very clearly say, i believe the accusers, was a watershed moment. Something that i think allowed very quickly for what to unfold this week where just about every other lawmaker said can we not forget though this is about child molestation allegations. In the case of roy moore. I hate to be the cynic but ultimately this is all political. Everything is politics. Mcconnell could not well get to this on the webcast. We have to leave it there. Thanks, everybody for, for being here. Our conversation will continue online as i said on the washingtonweek extra. Well tell why millions of dollars in taxpayer money has been spent on settlements including harassment sutes against lawmakers. Find it all weekend long at pbs. Org washingtonweek. Im robert kostya, i wish you and your family a happy thanksgiving. 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