The world stage. Rocket man is on a Suicide Mission for himself and for his regime. And he follows up his debut at the United Nations with new sanctions on north korea. The order enhances the treasury departments authorities to target any individual or entity that conducts significant trade in goods, services or technology with north korea. Will the tough talk Spark Conflict . And what is the trump doctrine . Well get answers from Philip Rucker of the washington post, Shawna Thomas of vice news, julie pace of the associated press, and peter baker of the new york times. Celebrating 50 years, this is Washington Week. Funding is provided by. Weve all been affected by cancer in some way, somehow. Danafarber Cancer Institute is pursuing breakthroughs every day to help end cancer. Like identifying genetic mutations for targeted therapies and teaching your immune system to attack cancer cells. By constantly using information in completely new ways. Were cracking the cancer code. Learn more at discovercarebelieve. Org. Their leadership is instinctive. They understand the challenges of today. And research the technologies of tomorrow. Some call them veterans. We call them part of our team. Additional funding is provided by newmans own foundation. Donating all profits from newmans own products to charity and nourishing the common good. The ethics and excellence in journalism foundation. The yuen foundation. Committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities. The corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you once again, live from washington, moderator robert costa. Good evening. Republicans right now are scrambling to get the 50 votes they need in the senate to upend the Affordable Care act. Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and bill cassidy of louisiana drafted the latest g. O. P. Legislation. The bill would eliminate insurance subsidies and employer mandates. It would significantly change the expansion of medicaid, converting those Health Care Funds into block grants that states would receive as a lump sum. Coverage for preexisting conditions would not be federally protected. Thats because each state would opt out of that insurance rule. A Bipartisan Group of 10 governors are opposed to the measure. And even reliably republican senator Chuck Grassley of iowa has admitted the bill has flaws. But he said that republicans campaigned on the issue and feel pressure from their base to act. Shawna, when you look at this piece of legislation, it says the g. O. P. Will let the states decide how to use federal money. But why is that so complicated . And whats at the heart of this debate . Well, its so complicated, because even though theyre saying were gonna create a formula and give all the states this money, in the end, for a lot of states, that means a lot less money is going to them. And overall, the cuts are fairly large. So because we dont have a congressional budget, one has said its a 215 billion cut in Health Care Funding between 2020 and 2026. In 2027, they say it goes up to 489 billion. At the heart of it, it is a program to make the size of government smaller, which is a very conservative thing. But when you start looking at, individual state . The states start to say things like, wait a second, if youre going to give me a billion less over 10 years, how am i going to fund these Health Care Programs i already have . The states will have to grapple with what makes the best health care for them, if this thing goes through. Governors are big stakeholders here, phil. They seem to not want the disruption for their Insurance Markets or the way they spend health care money. Thats right. A number of states expanded Medicaid Programs in their states under the Affordable Care act and those are the states in particular that would likely see less money coming in for their programs, which could result in big cuts to medicaid. Its one of the reasons you see republicans like Ohio Governor john kasich so strongly opposed to this bill, because it would disrupt a system that theyve spent really years trying to build in their states, after the Affordable Care act. Health care is complicated. These governors have had to navigate a lot of different rules to create a system that the industry can get used to. And this is just more disruption potentially. And we dont have a Congressional Budget Office score yet. We dont know how much this republican bill would cost. But we had big news today, not only because we dont have a cbo score and the process has been rushed, but senator john mccain said he is once again opposed to the republican bill. Major news for this bills fate. It essentially puts this bill on deaths door. I mean, you can really only afford to lose three of these or two of these republican lawmakers. Three would be a bridge too far. Rand paul is a no. Mccain says hes a no. All the attention is going to be focused on collins from maine and murkowski. These are two senators that cant be swayed in the ways that you would usually try to get a senator to change course. Murkowski had to run in a she had to do a writein to get in her seat and mcconnell didnt back her in that race. She owes these leadership members nothing. And collins is the traditional moderate republican. This is the role that she plays. Its really hard to see, especially with the cover from john mccain, that either of these women will change course now. And with senator collins, you have the issue that everyone kind of thinks shes going to run for governor of maine. And its hard, if you also have to go to your citizens and say, well, i voted for something that took a billion dollars away from your state, when it comes to Something Like health care, which is so personal to people. Thats the deviousness of the obama plan. They understood from the beginning, if you get these states hooked on money for Health Care Programs, theyre going to want to keep it. Once Government Programs are started, its awfully hard to undue them. In effect, they created a constituency for a law that might in fact be controversial but has a lot of people who are currently stakeholders in it. We saw that president obama spoke out this week about the Health Care Legislation and democrats seem to be mounting their own effort. Nothing is closer to his heart, i think, as a legacy item, than this health care bill. From his point of view, it was one of the major accomplishments that he did, that president s have sought to do for decades. The problem is, for democrats, you know, lets say this goes down as people now think it might. What do they do next . Is there a way to fix what everybody agrees are flaws in the law, which would require a bipartisan effort . Whats interesting as a test for President Trump and his new fondness and chuck and fancy, is he gonna do that . The way this Health Care Debate is evolving is that you have republicans pushing block grants in states. And democrats are pushing, at some level, for Single Payer Health care, led by senator sanders, independent but aligned with the democrats from vermont. Is this the way the Health Care Debate is moving in the United States . Its two parties moving in opposite directions. I think that the single payer debate among the democrats is a fascinating aspect of this story, led by bernie sanders, who is continuing to play a disrupter for democrats, pushing a lot of people to the left. In principle, a lot of democrats do support the idea of a single payer. But sanders is trying to push them in that direction. I do this this bipartisan discussion that was going on before grahamcassidy got pushed to the forefront is something to keep an eye on, because as peter said, you wont find any senator, any lawmakers of any any lawmaker of any party that would say that obamacare as it exists now is working. It has to be fixed. People dont want to uproot it. The disruption factor is keeping a lot of people opposed to this legislation. And a lot of that is coming from these governors, the ones actually on the ground having to implement this. And also uprooting it, it goes back to, who do you tell in your state, especially if youre in a state that expanded medicaid like ohio, okay, we are going to change these rules so that all of a sudden you are not allowed to have medicaid anymore. Who are you going to tell that to, practically, especially if youre a governor or somebody on the local level . What about preexisting conditions . Its interesting, because the bill cant get rid of the idea that preexisting conditions need to be covered by Insurance Companies, that an Insurance Company cannot deny you if you have a preexisting condition. What they have done is said, hey, states, were giving you a lot of latitude. If you write a program and you assure us that people will have adequate and affordable coverage, even if they have preexisting conditions, they will have adequate and affordable coverage, then you can create some room for yourself basically. No one knows really what that is going to mean from a state by state basis. Because there is that uncertainty, it leads to the fight weve seen on latenight t. V. Lately. That culture effect matters. It does. And a big obstacle is the popularity of their effort. Theres a new poll out that finds that 56 of americans think obamacare is better and only 33 think the senate g. O. P. Bill is better. If you look at the republicans, only republicans in that poll, a full quarter of them, do not like this senate bill. So the senators are having a really hard time galvanizing support for this measure out in the country, even though they campaigned on repealing obamacare, even though repealing it has been a galvanizing force in their base. The specifics of this bill are not popular. It becomes the best thing for obamacare. Now people are faced with the choice of maybe losing it. One of the downfalse of not going down falls of not going through what mccain was talking about is that there really hasnt been a chance for republicans to even sell the public on this. Most americans probably dont know the details. What they are hearing is coming from news reports, jimmy kimmel. But when you do the process in this way, try to rush legislation through, you lose that able to actually bolster the popularity of what youre trying to do. I wonder, does the trump voter actually want this legislation . We always talk about the conservative base prompting republicans in congress to move quickly. But are we sure that the trump voter, who is sometimes a little bit more independent, wants this bill . I think once they saw the effect of it, they might not want it. A lot of people want it in theory. They think obamacare was terrible. It was either government run amok or their premiums were going up or what have you. The businesses were required to provide this that they couldnt afford. If they saw the alternative as being better, thats the real test. One of the things weve learned in these last 10 years, there is no model system that everybody is going to love. In fact, each one is going to drive somebody crazy. And it will become unpopular for one reason or another. So if this bill falls apart, and the grahamcassidy is put on the shelf, shawna, we saw in senator mccains statement, he was talking about bipartisan efforts maybe being on the horizon. You see lamar alexander, senator patty murray of washington working on their own proposal. Could that actually happen . None of these people really totally like obamacare in its current form. There is republican and democratic agreement that if we dont figure out a way to shore up the Insurance Markets, if we dont figure out a way to stabilize them, if we dont give the Insurance Companies some kind of idea that this is the payments to them from the federal government are going to continue, they will keep pulling out. So while that could be a way to sort of destroy obamacare, which is something republicans might want, if that makes it harder for people to get health insurance, i think youre going to see people try to come together around this, which is what alexander and murray were doing. Alabama participating in a primary runoff, senator rand paul of kentucky firmly opposed, does the white house feel any pressure to move on health care . Theyd like to move. Based on opportunity this week, i think there was momentum building behind this bill. Its the reason you saw Vice President pence leave the United Nations midday tuesday to try to twist some arms in the senate. Look, the president has not been at the forefront of this grahamcassidy effort, but hes trying to push it along. I think mccain dashed it probably. Its not just the president who has some Political Capital on the line. Senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, hes pushing in this primary as well. But he also is trying to show the white house, the republican voter, julie, that he can get somethin done. Absolutely. Again, on this promise that has been so central for republicans for seven years now, and there is still this open question, even with mccain taking this position today, if mcconnell will put a bill on the floor. Will he . I dont know the answer to that. I think thats a really fascinating question. You could argue that he might want to put it on the floor and let it fail, have two failed votes and go turn to his members and say we have to move on. Its time to put this behind us. Whether that works or not, with their voters, i think is also an open question. Is it worth the embarrassment. In the middle of the night. Once again, youve got a white house that thought it was beginning to try to get a little bit of traction, right . Things started to settle down a little bit, that the president had done pretty well, managing the hurricanes, he had done pretty well at the u. N. Obviously not everybody agreed with that. But they had a plan. And the plan was about tax reform. Now suddenly youve got this overshadowing, another loss if it goes down. And by the way, immigration looming in the background, ready to come up at any moment. So instead of being able to focus what they thought would be their one priority, they keep getting pulled in different directions. Im not so sure, if they do move on from health care to takx reform, thats going to be any easier. Its tough. The president wants to try to put a little more meat on the bone, reveal something more of a plan. Right now we basically have principles and a list of bullet points. But tax reform is going to be tough. Theyre trying to get democratic support. Thats going to be hard. There are a lot of different constituency groups, millions, tens of millions of dollars at stake here for industries that are lobbying hard. Harder than health care. It is much harder than health care. I think, if you talk to republicans who are working on 2018 races, the prospect of going into the midterms without health care, without taxes, they know that map looks really good, but that just is ugly for them. Theyre pretty honest about that behind the scenes. So is all this with all this on capitol hill, we have to turn to the other big issue of the week. The president was at the United Nations. Tensions between the United States and north korea continue to rise. After President Trump announced new economic sanctions designed to choke off that countrys trade with the outside world, the move comes days after President Trump threatened north korea in his first address to the u. N. , where he mocked north koreas kim jongun. He called him rocket man. The United States has great strength and patience. But if it is forced to defend itself or its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy north korea. Kim jongun fired back in a personal statement, very personal, calling mr. Trump mentally deranged. North korean officials are warning that they may test a Hydrogen Bomb in the pacific ocean. The president responded via twitter, writing kim jongun of north korea, who is obviously a madman, who doesnt mind starving or killing his people, will be tested like never before. The president also took aim at iran, which he called a corrupt dictatorship and called the nuclear deal an embarrassment. The president seems to be trying to provoke these nuclear nations. That could have global consequences. Peter, you were in new york, watching this all unfold. When you were watching the president s speech, what was the mood in that room . Its a tough audience for any president. Everybody has got different languages, different cultures. So i think other president s discovered, you cant make jokes, interact with the audiences, which is where President Trump is at his most comfortable, where he probably is tonight in alabama. George bush once said its like speaking to a wax museum. Nobody moves. It was stony silence for the most part. A little smallering of applause here. When he used the term rocket man, it was kind of a buzz. When he said the world was going to hell, kind of a buzz going through the room. But they dont know what to make of the guy. This is not the typical american president s. American president s dont get up there and say were going to destroy another country, even if its provoked. Theyre used to a diplomatic, polished kind of presentation. And thats not the way President Trump is. Beyond the presentation, what was the message . Was it America First . Was it isolationist . Its not isolationist. He used the word sovereignty. He used it 21 times in the speech. By that, its a favorite term on the right. That hates the u. N. Why should we be part of this global body . We are our own sovereign nation. The u. N. Should butt out and not tell us what to do. On the one hand, hes defending american sovereignty while telling other countries what to do. Hes attacking venezuela, not just north korea which you could argue is a threat to other countries, but countries that are internally violating human rights. They would say, sovereignty applies to them too. Butt out, United States. And also pushing china to act tougher on north korea, even though they dont always feel like its in their own sovereign interest. And weve seen developments. Chinese banks are now saying theyre going to screw the lid a little tighter when it comes to giving money to north korea and trade with north korea. Is that progress . Is north korea actually becoming more isolated . Its sometimes hard to know with the chinese banks, because theyre a bit insular. I dont think we know the full extent of what china is doing. Rhetorically, the white house jumped on this. You had the president talking about this at the u. N. China continues to be the key for the administration in terms of getting progress on north korea. Everything else that weve seen so far has really had no practical effect. The momentum is all in one direction, with north korea continuing to move forward with testing, continuing to take provocative actions. They show no sign of being cowed by trumps rhetoric. They actually like to return the fire. China remains a puzzle for this administration. They cant quite figure out how to get them to move as quickly as they want them to. Thats because china doesnt move quickly and theres this fundamental sort of lack of understanding, i think, sometimes in this administration about the way that china approaches these issues and the speed at which theyre willing to move. Phil, when you think about the very personal way these two leaders are going at each other, its typical President Trump. Youve covered him for a long time. But it has real implications for foreign policy. It does. There are some here in the United States, when they see trump fire shots on twitter, they just say, dont listen to what hes saying, just focus on the actions. But in the case, the words are the actions. You cant trust that north korea is not going to Pay Attention when trump says rocket man and threatens to destroy their civilization really. Its very dangerous. Its something that has japan and south korea, theyre very nervous. The president met with their leaders, the leaders of japan and south korea this week, in new york. And i think theyre trying together to try to bring more pressure on china to pressure north korea. But theres no easy option. You talk to folks in the white house. And theyre nervous about this, very jittery about north korea. They have not identified any sort of magic bullet. And shawna, iran is watching closely. They strike a nuclear deal with the United States. Kim jongun is watching. Does he want to cut a deal with the United States . The president is not just making Nuclear Tough Talk with north korea but with iran. I think one of the issues is that if kim jongun is watching the way President Trump talks about iran, he is saying to himself, well, i saw you make a deal with a bunch of other countries, and International Bodies are saying they iran is adhering to the nuclear part of the deal and america seems to want to still try to figure out a way to get ou out of that dea. Why should i make a deal with you, if youre going to go onto the world stage if im cooperating and still, you know, say the worst about me . Theres no good reason to make the deal tork to a certain extent. On that point, peter, the president says hes made a decision on the iran deal but wont reveal it. This is a totally different figure on the world stage. But an iran and north korea, whats next . Well, thats the real question, right . With iran, you can see a possible path forward, if they are good at diplomacy. Now, thats a big if. The president has until october 15, under american law, to certify whether in fact iran is complying with the deal. And the other part of the phrase its interesting that its in Americas National interest. He may not be able to make the argument that theyre violating the deal but he may declare its not in our national interest. That doesnt get him out of the deal. But repass these sanctions if you want, that would get us out of the deal. The french said this week they would be open to negotiations, not to reopen the actual deal but to have a supplement in which they deal with some of these other issues. The iranians said, no, were done, sorry, this is a closed issue. And you could see President Trump tinkering a little bit with this addendum and claiming he renegotiated the deal, saying i totally redid the deal and made it beautiful and wonderful, like he had campaigned on. And there are people and organizations around the United Nations. Theres always other groups and one of them was a group talking about iran, which included bill richardson, john bolten, a couple of other people, who it seemed were trying to help President Trump make this conversation about the spirit of the deal, which is how President Trump talks about it, which is the American Interest part, that if they can figure out a way to create room and show people that iran is not part of the spirit of the deal, then maybe he could do something. We could talk all night. [laughter] well leave it there, unfortunately. Thanks, everybody, for being here. Our conversation will continue on the Washington Week extra, where well tell you why President Trump is risking his own Political Capital in a senate race in alabama. You can find it later tonight at pbs. Org newshour. Im robert costa. Enjoy your weekend [music] funding for Washington Week is provided by. [music] their leadership is instinctive. 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