Nation. Last week the house passed a bill requiring tiktok to divest from its chinese owner or face removal from the u. S. App stores. Joining us now are the leaders of the House Select Committee on the Chinese Communist party, republican Mike Gallagher and democrat raja krishnamoorthi. Good morning to you both. Good morning. Thanks for having us. Congressman krishnamoorthi, i want to go to you as the lead democrat here. President biden said he would sign this bill if it makes it to his desk. Have you gotten any indication from leader schumer that senate will take this up or whether this legislation will die in the senate . Well, weve got an indication that leader is going to take it up in his process and we respect his process. Mike and i have had conversations with different members of the senate. Were very interested in this bill and are very surprised by the size or the margin of the overwhelming bipartisan support in the house and as you know, the white house has asked the senate to take up this bill quickly. But as you know, President Biden has his campaign on tiktok. Do you agree with senator warner it looks like hes basicall speaking out of both sides of his mouth on this one . Is it unhelpful . No. Im not going to tell the president how to campaign. I dont have it on my personal phone and its, of course, ban from all of our government devices. I would just say that its legal now, but i would ask everyone to exercise caution with regard to the app because of the various risks that weve outlined as part of this bill. Congressman gallagher, on the risks, we are eight months out from the president ial election, and in the u. S. Intelligence assessment that was made public on monday, it specifically mentioned that the Chinese Government propaganda arm used tiktok to target candidates from both Political Parties in those midterm elections in 2022. So we can only assume this is going to be happening in 2024 as well. Do you actually believe a for sale will happen before november . It absolutely could. I would be in the financial interest of bytedances investors to effectuate a for sale. The User Experience on the app would improve and you wouldnt have this concern over being propagandaized. The opaque algorithm influencing what information you see, that would go away. I imagine it would actually increase in value. I think all the more reason we have to tackle this now. The closer we get to an election, the risk gets greater and greater. You mentioned that unclassified dni report. Every single Intelligence Community official that testified before the Intelligence Committee last week suggested under its current Ownership Structure tiktok is a threat to National Security which is why we are trying to force tiktok to separate from bytedance and by extension from the Chinese Communist party. We have been hearing this is a National Security threat and something needs to be done, and it dies in congress or in the court. If this version becomes law, how does this actually how do you stop it is this because this app is already on 170 million phones. Can you claw it back . If a divestiture happens and the sale happens you wouldnt need to. People can use the app and post weird dance videos and campaign on the app. The forcing function in the bill is if they do not pursue a sale, then they would no longer have access to the app store so you couldnt do new downloads. The website would be affected and affect the functionality of the app. The outcome we want is a forced separation and we think thats the healthiest for all parties involved and just given the reporting we have and tiktoks own behavior in the last month, look at the popup notification they forced on millions of thooursz resulted in kids calling with school bells in the background saying if you dont rescind this bill im going to kill myself. Thats just a taste of how this app could be weaponized. Imagine a more consequential vote Going Forward about authorizing force to defend taiwan or permanent normal trade relation status with china. Thats the risk were trying to guard against. Is it really just tiktok . I mean there are no guardrails virtually in place for any kind of social media that those kids or us adults have access to, congressman krishnamoorthi. I agree and mike and i would love to work with others with regard to putting guardrails in place with regard to other apps. Regardless of their ownership. This one is different in the sense that we have a foreign adversary controlling this app. Just to give your viewers a sense of it, essentially bytedance is the 100 owner of tiktok. Bytedance basically has its editor in chief who is also the secretary of the Chinese Communist party embedded at the highest echelons of the company to control all of its products. He has been tasked with, quote, making sure all of its products, including tiktok, adhere to correct political direction. So this is a different type of threat than weve seen before. This divestment is not without precedent. There was an app called grinder, a popular lbgtq app that was acquired by a cleese company and when the u. S. Government found the ccp had access to Sensitive Data about lbgtq members of the military and u. S. Government officials, it required the divestment. It happened very quickly. Why . Because the app is very was very valuable. Of like tiktok. There was no disruption to users. Thats what will happen with regard to this divestment as well. Congressman gallagher, mike pence was here saying how disappointed he was that donald trump has changed his views on tiktok. This week he was on cbs evening news and said that, you know, oh, well it will just benefit facebook if you crack down on tiktok. Doesnt that just incentivize the slow rolling of any legislation until after november . You know, the lobbyists can grab right on to that. There is an unprecedented lobbying campaign. Theyre weaponizing the swamp against legislative action over half a Million Dollars spent last quarter alone on seven different lobbying firms. Its disgusting. Former members of congress lobbying on behalf of tiktok. That should be illegal. Members should not be allowed to lobby in general let alone on behalf of foreign adversaries side note. The fact that we got a vote, really a huge vote in the house, bipartisan, 352, makes it impossible to ignore. Thats a testament to rajas leadership, the fact that were able to come together at a time when the parties dont trust each other on anything, far better for congress to step up and legislate a solution so were to the bouncing back and forth between different president s and executive orders. Thats a recipe for chaos. To be fair here can i jump in. I want to say tiktok as you insists its not under the control of the Chinese Communist party. That is completely false and that is exactly why tiktok is in trouble on capitol hill. Their ceo has appeared on capitol hill repeatedly and made various misrepresentations, margaret, that have caused members on both sides to really scratch their heads and vote for this bill. Ill point out two briefly. One is that he claimed that bytedance china based employees never had access to american user data and that was proven to be false. They repeatedly access it even unbeknownst to tiktok usa employees and the second misrepresentation is he said this data, american user data, was never used against americans. That was proven false. The company admitted they spied on journalists who were covering tiktok and they used their geolocation data to surveil them. This is why there is such hot water on capitol hill. All right. Congressmen, thank you for joining us in this rare bipartisan action very quickly on tiktok. Well be following what happens next. Thank you. And well be right back. Discover a different first treatment. Immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. But opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults newly diagnosed with nonsmall cell lung cancer that has spread, tests positive for pdl1, and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. Opdivo plus yervoy is not chemotherapy, it works differently. It helps your immune system fight cancer in 2 different ways. 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But notably, of a key republican senator josh hawley, who supports the bill, said the senate will nickel and dime it death by a thousand cuts nothing that big tech doesnt want moves across the senate floor. Do you think hes right . Why would this be different than any time in the past . Well, i think, you know, theres a lot of lobbying going on and senate is slower and theres some issues in the bill ta probably theyre going to want to correct and, you know, slow rolling is the best way to have this not pass. It is unprecedented it moved so quickly in the house although its been a long time coming. Donald trump had the executive order around tiktok, and its service and so this has been brewing for a long time. Its just that it will take a lot longer in the senate to do it and opponents like rand paul and others and Chuck Schumer hasnt been particularly supportive or nonsupportive of it. So it will just take longer. Thats in the favor of tiktok. And i know youve said in the past on this program, you use tiktok but only on a burner phone. In other words, you dont trust yeah. That you could carry it on a phone with you into private spaces and not be spied on . Look, margaret, i dont trust any of them, but particularly dont trust a Chinese Owned Company. I had it on a burner phone and wrote a column in the New York Times about four or five years ago. I think its an exciting app, broadcast network. Its entertainment. And does it well. I feel like every Chinese Company ive covered has had the tentacles of the Chinese Communist party involved in it, whether they like it or not. In the case of some of them they dont like it. But thats the case. Now thats not to be said theres not issues with every single u. S. Based company, meta and alphabet. But this is a different step level as far as im concerned. These are this is a foreign adversary and its different. China a Chinese Owned Company would not be able to own cbs and this is a Media Company and thats the question, are we going to allow a Media Company from china to have so much purview around the United States . We are not allowed to be in china. Our companies are not allowed to be there, so theres not reciprocity because they would be worried about the exact same things we should be worried about propaganda, surveillance, anything else. I get the First Amendment arguments and everything else, but tiktok is not going away, kids. This is the thing that sort of that tiktok is using a little bit that i think is disingenuous. Its not going away. Someone is going to buy it or they will be allowed to continue to operate with guardrails which is happening now with project texas. I wont go into details but theres got to be some way to monitor this particular service more than the others. At the same time we should have privacy and antitrust bills, algorithmic bills which congress has not acted on in two decades. Exactly. There arent guardrails period. Tiktok is valued at approximately 100 billion according to wedbush securities, but just 40 billion without the source code. Who would buy this . Oh, a lot of companies. You could see microsoft picking it up. Maybe apple. Theres a whole bunch of consortiums. Steven mnuchin has one, bobby cotick who sold activision to microsoft. I think the question is, and i had an interesting discussion with mark cuban about this recently, what do you buy precisely . The algorithm is not coming with this company. The Chinese Government would never let that happen. Because the algorithm will actually if you could reverse engineer it prove possibly that there is problems with it or anything else. I dont know if there is. I know should there be allowed to have the opportunity. And what are you buying . Youre buying 170 say u. S. Users and a great brand and the algorithm isnt there and one of the magic of tiktok is the algorithm. The history that you have there. The thing that targets you. This past week, elon musk, who you cover in depth, posted this bill is about censorship and government control and far too broad. There have been concerns about Foreign Investors in x and twitter. What do you make of this argument from him . Well, this is the guy who just fired someone for doing an interview. I dont know. I dont believe anything about what he says. You know, you could make that argument, but why is it if its owned by a u. S. Entity . It will be able to do whatever you want. And again, twitter is chock full of foreign investrs and everything else. I dont know. I dont really take that into account much. He just likes to say free speech a lot and does the exact opposite. I dont know what else to say. Youre referring to an interview that don lemon did with elon musk . Yes. Im sorry. Im not being specific. Its constant like that. Talks about free speech and then freezes out journalists and stuff like that. Anyone that goes on and on about free speech, really, you have to really look more carefully about what they actually do than what they say. In any case, you know, thats the argument from that side. That is that argument. I raise him because mark warner, the chair of the Intelligence Committee, said theres not a Single Person more beholden to the communist Chinese Party than elon musk because of his own businesses, and yet, he owns this i would agree. I would agree. I dont know. You have to consider the source. Thats how i would put it. I always consider the source, margaret. In this case really consider the source. And you know this business and this industry so well. Kara swisher, thank you for your insight. Well be back in a moment. According to unicef, 81 of households in gaza dont have enough access to clean water, and nine in ten people do not have enough food to survive. The organizations executive director is Catherine Russell here with us. Welcome to face the nation. Thank you very much. You focus in particular on the children. We heard this week from the leaders of the u. S. Intelligence community that there will be a generational impact from what is happening in gaza. The implications of that they were looking through the National Security lens. From your perspective, what does that mean . What is a generational impact mean . It means that whats happening now is more than 13,000 children already have been killed, which is an astronomical, horrifying number. Thousands more have been injured or we cant even determine where they are. They may be stuck under rubble. Thousands more have lost one or both parents. Some of these children youve seen them on the news theyre by themselves managing their younger siblings. Its a horrifying situation. When you think about the impact of that on those children as they grow up, even on their children, right, it is an impact that is so profound because of the stress theyre living under and the grief and the loss and the fear that theyre living under, its bound to have impacts on them the rest of their lives. Since october 7th, 33 israeli children have been killed in those horrific attacks of that day. As you said 13,000 in gaza that you know of. Thats just horrific for the youngest. The children who were killed in israel, the children who were taken hostage. There are still children who have not been returned to their families in israel. All horrific, right. Every one of those cases is so heartbreaking for that child and that family. I think these numbers that were seeing out of gaza are just staggering. I mean we havent seen that rate of death among children in almost any other conflict in the world. Its really shocking. So your Organization Says 31 of children, one in three, under the age of 2, in northern gaza suffer from acute malnutrition. This isnt just trauma. This is stunting them for life. Yeah. If they survive. I have to say, ive seen a lot of children unfortunately in my job around the world who suffer from malnutrition and it is a shocking thing to see. Essentially the body starts to consume itself because it has nothing else and its a painful, painful death for children. Ive been in wards of children suffering severe malnutrition the whole ward is quiet because the children, baby, dont even have the energy to cry. It is a devastating thing to see. If it they survive and we can manage to get what we do is provide therapeutic feeding for them if we can get that to them they can survive. Often theyre stunted for life. Stunting means your ability, cognitive ability is impacted as well. It is a lifelong challenge if they vive. We know children are dying from malnutrition. The cia director testified about children starving in gaza. What are you able to actually get in at this point . We know there are air drops happening. You cant air drop vaccines. You cant air drop things that need to be refrigerated. Whats getting in and what do you need to get in. First of all one thing we know for sure not enough is getting in. The air drops are some things are coming in that way and some came through the maritime corridor. Its a drop in the bucket in both cases. What we need to get in for children is the therapeutic feeding something called plumping i dont know if youve seen it. It can save their lives. But we need to get it to them and we have so little access right now. Its very challenging. We also are facing very great bureaucratic challenges moving trucks in. Trucks and moving things by land is by far the most efficient, effective way to get aid in. There are a lot of challenges to that where we cant, you know i think senator van hollen mentioned if things are dual used sometimes they get rejected. We cant get plastic pipes in, some medical kits if they have scissors in them. Its completely almost to figure out how to get things in through this bureaucratic mess. At the end of the day those are choices that are made. If the choice is those are political choices. They are choices. If the choice is to say we need to get as much humanitarian aid flooded into this area as possible, everyone can do better in that regard. I think that population there is suffering in such a terrible way and i think one of the big challenges is, because theres such limited access for the press, in addition, its hard to see that. It would be great if there was more transparency, if everyone could see what challenges are and legitimate bottlenecks are and how we can do better. We rely on our producer who lives in gaza, but we cannot get in. You should be able to get in and see whats happening. The world should see whats happening and make their own judgments about whats going on. The Israeli Government has not permitted that to date. The ongoing crisis in haiti, i need to ask you about that. This is so close to u. S. Shores. Americans are watching it now. What is happening there . I read twothirds of children need aid . Haiti is a horrific situation. I was there several months ago. There was so much violence even then and there were gangs controlling parts of the capital. Now theyve basically taken over the capital, taken over the airport. What that means for people is that we cant get aid in, again, its very difficult for us to do that. Many, many people there are suffering from serious hunger and malnutrition and were not able to get enough aid to them. Its almost like a scene out of mad max. Thats what it seems like. Gangs, vigilantes responding to the gangs. Somehow we need to get more control over that situation so that we can get the humanitarian response in and so that this population that has suffered one thing after another over the years, earthquakes, cholera, covid, i mean its one thing after another for haiti, and i think right now, its the worst that anyone has seen in decades. Thats saying a lot. Thats saying a lot. Catherine russell, thank you for sharing your insights. Well be right back. [dog whimpers] [thinking] why always the couch . Does he need to go to puppy school . Get his little puppy diploma . How much have i been spending on this little guy . When your questions about life turn into questions about money. Theres erica. The virtual financial assistant to help you spend, save, and plan smarter. Only from bank of america. Thats it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week. For face the nation, im margaret brennan. 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