Each other for scarce equipment. Its like at madhouse out there. Itse1 like being on ebay wi 50 other states bidding on a t ventilator. My guest, Surgeon General jerome adams, governors jay inslee andok asa xdo7 qhutchinse minister giuseppe conte, and Michael Lewis. Plus, what hans when covid19 hits ruralr doctors, beds, and ventilators . Finally, scenes like this. The moments of love,q selflessness and heroism keepin our spirits up in the face of a once in a century challenge. Joining me for insight and analysis are nbc capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt, former republican governor of north carolina, pat mccrory, and helene cooper, pentagon correspondent for the New York Times. Welcomexd to sunday. And a special edition of meet the press. X h lc announcer from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in televisionxd history. This is a special edition of meet the press withe qo[ chu todd. Good sunday morning. The week began with two national reckonings on the coronavirus. The first is where were xdhead. As of this morning, there are more than 300,000 confirmed cases in the United States, and well over 8,0006m deaths. The federal government is now acknowledging that in a bestcasexd xdscenario, somewhe between 100,000 and co240,000 americans are likely to die fro1 this virus. n[ti jat point of c more americans than died fighting in korea and vietnam combined. As you can see, the United States, thee1 soaring red line this graphic here, trailse1 the world in flattening thexd pandemics curve. Which brings us to the second reckoning, the governments lpe1 performance. Like President Trump insisting for weeks that the coronik irus was no worse than the flu, like the lack of testing, the big one starting with the botched cdc test kits. Like the governments inadequate stockpile of gowns, masks, and other protective equipment. Like the mixed messages on face masks. The cdc recommending them, the president refusing to wear one, like disbanding the National Security councils Pandemic Team in 2018. Remember, the sobering death toll numbers hold only if everyone practices social distancing, and as we learned last week,mhahat isnt happen 52avq e. Still, the bottom line is the government has been telling us its been in control of the virus, when in fact it is the virus which has been in control of us. We are afraid for our patients. We are afraid for our families. We are afraidj tju our lives. In new york and around the country we are a small, rural hospital. We have no e1ventilators. Medical providers, first responders, and state officials are pleading with the federal government for more help. Every state is saying the same thing. I need help. I need assistance. But this week, th1 Trump Administration repeatedlynr sen governors the message, dont look to us first. The notion of the federal stockpile was its supposed to be our stockpile, not supposed to be state t stockpiles they tn use. By friday, the hhs website describingfa the stockpile had been altered, saying it had enough suxpoies to respond to multiple crises simultaneously, to reading isrole it soos iq shortterm supplies as a buffer. I dont know ifqe1 jared kusr goq knows this but its called the United States of government. And the federal government which has a stockpile is supposed to be backstopping the states. Nine governors are still declining toni enact stayatho orders andni mr. Trump is refusg to make them do so. I dont understand why were not doing okthat. We really should be. The governments advice has changed over time. Americans were told not to wear masks. Now, the i]nijfe1cdc is recomme they wear nonsurgico,÷ masks or Face Coveringsktz public. On friday, the president immediately made it clear he is not going to follow that guidance. You can do it, you dont have do it. Im choosing not to do it. Americans were told only americans were told testing was widely available. Anybody that needs a test gets a test. Theyre there. Q even now, there have been just 1. 6 million tests conducted nationwide. is needed. T hat experts say in fact, for months, the president played down the virus. Misrepq 9 one person coming in from china. And we have it under control. It looks like by april in theory when it gets a little warmer, it will miraculously go away. This week, he reversed course on his rosy projections, acknowledging the u. S. Death toll could be staggering, while attempting to claim 100,000 is, according to modeli modeling, a very low number. Models show hundreds of thousands of people are going to die. You know what i want do . I want to come way under the models. The professionals did the i] models. I was never involved in a model. At least this kind of a model. Joining me now is the u. S. Surgeon general, vice eairal jerome adams. Welcome to meet the press. Let mew3 start with, youre the we always recommended that if people had symptoms, that they wear a face mask toxd prevent spreading th ease to other folks. Heres whats changed. We now know that about 25 inu some studies even more of covid19 is transmitted when your asymptomatic or presttamic, so the dcd hase1 recommended people recommend you wear cloth coverings whe10 u r public. Here are the important points. Number one, you need to make sure youre not substituting social distancing with face u ing is still to stay awam people. Ing is still to stay awam make sure if you put on a face mask, you dont touch your face and your wash youre1 hands befo your utilize it, and number three, save the masks for the medical Health Care Workers. Theye1 need them. I made a cloth face mask out of a tshirt and rubber bands. Bwe all need to do our part to get through this. Im curious, i know you made the warning, youre sayingfa specifically, you dont want people to make a run on u clinl or surgical masks. Two questions i have on that front. Number one, if you are care eing for somebody infa the vulnerabl age group, should that person be wearing a surgical mask . And second, if there were enough around the country, would that urji lc and is it thelpq only reason we saying do homemade ones is we just dont have enough masks . Well, the reason why were cau protecting you from me. Remember, im wearing a mask to protect you, chuck, and youre wearing a mask to protect me. Thats what you faneed. We want to make sure were saving the medical masks for the Health Care Workers and we still wouldnt recommend people wear an n95 even if we ho ÷ enough. Hospital, i have to get speciallyfa tested to we an n95. R theyrer if youre taking care of a loved one, very important you wash your hands frequently, do Everything Possible to prevent spreading disease to them,e1 ani w af encourage folks too h consider wearing a cloth Face Covering when youre withiix feet to them. The president made it pretty clear hes not going to wear one. Ok would you recommend people wearing onee1q at work . That, again, what you have to know, if you go to the cdc website, number one, this isw3 voluntary. Were ask people to think about doing it to protect their neighbors andxd family. Number two, its not a substitute for social distancing. If youre at work and six feet away from someone,q theres a minimal chance youre going to spread disease. If youre in a Work Environment where youre within six feet, youre close to someone, thats something to consider, and thats what the cdc guidelines 1 say. a eyre based on the science. We always try to evolve our. urjjui] based on the best available science. Admiral, i knowq youre hesitant to backseat drive other officials and the calls they have to make, and im very aware of that, but i am curious. If you were advising the nine governors who have not issued stayathome orders, what would you advise them to do . Well,ni i would advise them follow our 30 days to slow the spread guidelines. I ran a state department of health. I talked to many of these governors, and heres what i say to them. Heres what i would say to them right now. The next week is goingok to be r pearl harbor moment. Its going to be our 9 11 moment. Its going to be the hardest moment for Many Americans in their entirew3 lives, and we really need to understand that if we want to flatten that curve and get through to the other side, Everyone Needs took do thr part. 90 of americans aree1 doing thr part, even in the states where they havent had a shelter in place. But if you cant give us 30 days, governors, give us a week, qe1 we dont overwhelm our health pj c systems over this next week and lets reassess at that point. We want everyone too7 understa you have to be rosy the riveter. You have toe1 do your part. At a minimum, you wish every governor would issue at least one week . I wish every governor would encourage the people in their states to follow these guidelines for 30jf a 5ey thats what i want, but i want them to do what they can withiv their states. We knowi] from a Public Health perspective, and i ran a Public Health department, whether its smoking or opioidg there are all sorts of different rules and different regulations in states. n actually said it would be declaring war on the states tol issue a federal quarantine. Ko governors are rightly protective of their ability to determine whats best for their citizens. We want them to have the science to make the best recommendations. I want to put up a quote from amy actin, the director of Public Health in ohio. She said this on march 13th. And admiral, its been haunting me ever since. This is what she said, onokt t1 end of a pandemic, you look ani little bit like an alarmist, hindsight, youre going to wish you had done e1more . 20 years in Public Health, and i know director actin, those words couldnt be truer. Were always telling people we would rather prevent disease than treat i]disease. I tell people we arent going to treat or supply our way out of this problem. There is no magic bullet or magic cure. Its Public Health and prevention. Everyonee1 coming together, practicing good hygiene, staying at home, doing the things we have always told people to do to prevent the spread of infectious diseasesa whent are we going to have website that was advertised where we can get a test, where we canfa finde1 out about antibodies. It seems clear were never really opening the economy fully until were able to gps this virus. Where are we . 1. 7 million tests. Thats about 1 in 200 americans. Thats where south korea was with their initial testing surge. Lpe1 seeing testing ramp up, and we know its never enough tests fast enough, but i feel q two to four weeks, were going to be w xt we want to be to be able to do adequate surveillance and understand where the disease is, where its , and low, and where andn1e1 to have apprope health recommendations. What does rm we want to make sure were seeing cases go down for a good one to two weeks in places. We want to make sure we have testing, but we want s make sure we have good Public Health infrastructure so when we identify a positive test, people can then follow up, isolate, follow up on their case contacts, and make sure a single case doesnt turne1 into ten, 1, 1,000 do you think by the end of april, well be in ae1 testing situation where were actually doing surveillance rather than just trying to playxdcatchup . We are doing surveillance in many places. Xdc c1 has a higher testing rate than the average for the rest of the so were doinge1 surveillance i many places. Were going to get the e1antibo testing which will give us more information and i talked to the a, task force, and he says he feels within a month, well have Antibody Testing more widely available. Xd again, 100,000co tests being do per day, 50,000 abbot tests coming online. Testing is becoming more and more available, but it still doesnt replace the fact we want everybody to act as if they have covid19 right now and protect your neighbor, protect your loved ones. Very quickly2 dmiral, the president mused about a oneday reprieve for easter sunday. I understand it from a, you xdscenario. Would that be ae1 Public Health mistake . The president is always hopeful. Hes aspirational, and were tryidgbq give people the science. The science says right now, this palm sunday, and im a catholic, i would be getting ready for church right now, we need you to stay home. This is a hard week, its going to test our resolve. The hardest week of our lives, but im confident jz the numbers in washington and california and italy and spain, we can get through this. We will get throughok this. ]i r do the right thing and stay at home. Surgeon general jerome adamsk thanks very much. Stay he 4vhy. Stay clean, and i hope people do watch your video on how to make a mask. Thanks for coming faon. Watch it. And stay home. If you geout, use one of nrthes. Thank you, chuck. All right. Thank you, sir. Joining me now are two governors who have taken different steps intsq face of thei 9y ium pandemic. Its governorni jay inslee of washington state, the first state to be hit hard, and Asa Hutchinson, one of the few governors who has not issued a stayathome order. Governor hutchinson, i want to start with you. You heard the Surgeon General there. Hes pleading, give him a week. He would prefer for all 30 days othis months. Your response to the Surgeon General. Great commentshe the Surgeon General. In arkansas, were doing everything that the Surgeon General has outlined plus more. For example, i applaud the recommendations onxdok masks. Yesterday, we issued guidelines that ifxd you go out, social distance, jaau of all, but bring a mask with you in case you get in environments where you cannot have that sixfeet spread. In arkansas, we have a targeted approach we have closed bars, restaurants, schools, some of our park lodges. Wereni emphasizing the socialx distancing. And we will do more as we need to. But let me give you an example of why the masks are so important, and by the way, we have had success int e1 arkansa e5 au ap le to other states. In fact, beating and slowing the spread more thane some states that have actually had a stayathome order. But you have at stayathome 1ntomorrow, e1600,000 u arkinsons will still go to work. Its more important the message, do your social distancing. Dont gather in groups of more than ten people, and bring a mask with you. Im going to follow that instruction. If i cant social distance, i want to have a mask on. We just had last night a breakout in one of our federal prisons herelp in arkansas that have ten inmates that tested positive and four guards. Thats a federal facility. But stayathome doesnt help there. You have to have masks. Our state prison is producing a masks we can utilize in our state prison environment. Those are some of thee1 things were doing. Well do more as we need to, officials. All right. Governor inslee, all week long, i know you said youre not out of the woods, but do your you have started to flatten this curve . Yes, the evidence that dr. Xdbirx has pointed t a repeatedly does demonstrate we have had some success flattening the curve. That hasq taken place because w acted relatively early. We had a staged way n moving forward. Were one of the most aggressive stayathome stay healthyxd initiatives in the united k states. And iajjz this has axd reason to believe its been demonstrably successful. And im glad we got on it relativelyxd early while the president was saying thatni thi was not a problem and that it was a hoax. Of our citizens in a number of states, including california and washington state. Its pleasing to know that if you act aggressively, and if you realize that even though youre looking okay today, it can bqt you big time tomorrow, i think thats one of the wisdoms, i think it would be good to have a nationalco stayathome order, d the reason is that even if washington gets on top of this fully, if another state doesnt, it can come back and come across ourlp borders twomy months fro. This is important to have a nationalfa lpsuccess. But i want to reiterate, were a long ways away from being out of the woods. Weco have not got down to anywhe close to where we needfa to be declare victory of this horrendous virus. nr what does governor inslee, inr want to start with you on ts first. G÷rp e you started the conversation about what metrics youll be looking for to start lifting some of these stayinplace orders . Yes. But those are just only to begin to think abju this because we have been so intent on making sure this is axd successful stayathome order. And so far, it has been. We have had huge compliancenr i our state. Washingtonians are responding to the call, and were really happy about that. But yes, we are looking at the metrics. Fortunately, were very fortunate here in washington, we hecat university of washington labs, some of the best in the world. They give us the metrics we need. We watch these like daile hourly, and well look at them on a mix. There isnt one number. There arelp many numbers well look at to see when we canq com out of this. I extended it a month just two days ago to mayxde1 4th. So were in a very vigorous, one of x nrstrongest, probat,o the strongest in the nation, to may 4th at the moment. We have more work to do. Governor hutchinson, there was the ceo of the universitynif arkansas for medical sciences, the Medical Center there, said the state lost an order of 500 ventilators. Essentially got e1outbid by another state. Should you be in that situation . Should you be forced to be bidding againstfa is this something the federal government needs to step in and handle . Well, its difficult. Andxdni we have had circumstanc were trying to collect our ppe, our protective masks, and we have been outbid by another state after w confirmed. Dzb5zallenging for us. co but we recognize that the federal government has said were your backstop. You have to get out there and compete, and it literally is a global jungle that wereuar hc competing in now. You thing thats the way it should be . You think thats the way it should be . Look, i know idealogically and philosophically, where a lot of no, there needs to be ix and thats why every state, whether were procuring orlp whether we are determining whats best in our state to reduce the spread, we have to be able toe1 have some flexibility making those decisions. And thats what were seeing. Were learning from eache1 othe. Well, very quickly, governor hutchinson, ie1 wantm x give governor inslee ar respond. But governor hutchinson, anthonk faucie1 has begged basically foa national stayathome order. T does his does his basically to sayq were a backup. Thee1 surgeonni generalnir pearl harbor. Could you imagine if Franklin Delano roosevelt said ill be right behind you, connecticut. Good luck building those padp ships. We need manufacturing in ths3 United States, as weok started december 8th, 1941. We need to nationally mobilize tu urjzt so we can get these Companies Instead of making cup holders, start making visors. Start making test kits. We dont have enough test kitse by far in my state or anywhere in the United States. So we governors, republicank ad democrats, have been urging the presid uz do what he e1should, which is if he wants to be a wartime president , be a e1 wartime president. Show some leadership. Mobilize Industrial Base in the United States. Thateo 4w we i]need. Governor jay inslee, democrat from washington state. Governor Asa Hutchinson, republican from xdarkansas, tha for coming on, sharing your views. This is going to be a long fight here. Good luck tofq of you on the front lines there. When we come back, italy was the first your peep country hit hard by the coronavirus. Im going to talk tojf italys prime ministerw3 about what the prime ministerw3 about what the United States can expect to ott to be most successful, connectivity is vital. Verizon, really for us, has been a partner for years. Allows us to stay connected to our 80 plus locations across the country. We use verizon throughout our entire day. Its an integral part of how our practice runs. We need our project managers and our superintendents to be able to communicate. We dont have to be together to work together. vo at verizon, were here, and were ready. Were open 24 7 online with tools and support to help your business stay connected at verizon. Com ready. But right now, the world needs all the good that we can do. To all of our employees and everyone working to keep america strong, thank you. To all of our employees and everyone working wthe Natural Light is amazing. Hardwood floors. There is a bit of a clogging problem. clog dancing at least geico makes it easy to bundle our renters and car insurance. Yeah, helping us save us even more. For bundling made easy, go to geico. Com welcome back. Vice president mike pence said it last week, we have become the next italy. On march 4t on march 4t schools and universities. Ctjz march 8th, mo3u italy was laced on lockdown, and one day later, the lockdown was extended to the entire country, something we have not done yet here. Did it work . Cs c1 since its number of new cases peaked on march 21st, italy has seen an unsteadye1 but a declin nonetheless of new cases. So what can we in the United States learn frome1 italys experience . Joining me now isxd italys pri minister, giuseppe conte. Mr. Prime xdminister, welcome t meet the press. Let me simply start byi] asking how you and your citizens and your own loved o. C arefa handlg all this . This has been a veryxd trying time. I know you just lost a bodyguar to this deadly virus. Unfortunately, unfortunately, it was terrible news. But let me sayw3 one thing firs. We are sufferingq very much. A implement decisions with fulsl transparency. Our liberal democracy are built on the contact we have with ourc own people, and we owe to them, through transparency in the same way we provide them with safety and security. This is the italian model. Do you believe given what we have seen, and it looks like you have flattened your curve, do you believe that you have flattened the curve because of measures you have taken . Or doe1 your scientific experts believe the virus just might be running its course . In this moment, ii] cannotok when the lplockdown willfa stop because we are foll i suggestions of our scientistse1j the scientific community. But you have to consider that italy hast been the first couno in europe that, of course, faced thishnpandemic. Our response has not been do not go out. And if you must leave your xdho, for example, to go took work oro bye food, alwaysi] respect fell people. Were asking our people a great sacrifice. Im aware of it, but its the only way to defeat the pandemic together. E1 the more wee1 respect, the soon we will get out. It sounds like there was a story in the New York Times today that if with testing that your wee1 will work for that, butn this moment, we are all in the same battle. We arenb fighting the same powerful and invisible enemy. Ok1 and itse1 strategic internatiol cooperation, and its ae1e1 strategic clao that conflicts around the worlde1 shouldxd sto. Italy strongly supports the appeal for a global ceasefire. a its time for all the parties in conflict to stop fighting each other and unite against an enemy which wont make a difference and we have killed themxd t all. Mr. Prime e1minister, i know these next couple sundays in particular are going to be really difficult to think of these emptyrc s churches on pal sunday and onlp easter, its gog to be difficult. My condolences, e1i]again, to y and stay the fight. Keep going. And keep flattening that cue thanks fore1 coming on. Thank yout very much. If i can say, im really proud to serve my amazing country. Thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Primee1 minister. When we g wasnt the government ready for this e1pandemic . The panel is next. And as we go to break, the reunion between my nbc news correspondent colleague janis mackey frayq and her 6yearold ÷c separated for seven weeks. E1 staying inside saves lives. Stay home, please stay home, stay home, were gonna have to get creative in here. I really think togetherness is the super power of our species. Lets do it together. We will keep each other company. I want you to meditate with me. Lets get ready together. Coming yoga with me each day could be a different thing. Hi, guys. Welcome back to another studying video. But first, some rock and roll. Aghhhhhhhh i want you guys to stay home and cook with me. This is the one you want to get. Ooohhh like reading what you guys are up too. And im real into it. Why not turn on the camera . Do it as a group, do it together and make some comfort food, because we all need that right now. You can slow the growth of this and save lives. And i like to question your im yoevery move. N law. Like this left turn. Its the next one. You always drive this slow . How did you make someone i love . That must be why youre always so late. I do not speed. And thats saving me cash with drivewise. [mayhem] you always drive like an old lady . [tina] youre an old lady. Im part of a community of problem solvers. We make ideas grow. From an everyday solution. To one that can take on a bigger challenge. We are solving problems that improve lives. Welcome back. The panelfa is joining us from the ae remote locations. We aree1 practicing ourfa socia distancing. Capitol hill hill correspondent kasie hunt, the former republican governor of north carolina, pat mccrory, and helene cooper, correspondent for the New York Times. I think we can best sum up the argument or debate this morning in particularly, whos in charge, ande1 kasie hunt, i wan to play thee1 president on the c mask guidelines because in many ways the mixed messages he sent here sort of sums up the back and forth between the feds and the state. Take a listen. The cdc is advising the use of nonmedical cloth Face Coveringe1 as an additional voluntary Public Health qmeasur. So its voluntary. You dont have to do it. I dont think im going to be doing it. I think wearing a face mask as i greet president s, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens, i dont know. Somehow, i dont see it for myself. Its worth noting, by the way, the italian prime minister, before he started the interview, before he sat down, he e1actual was wearing a mask. All of his aidesmasks. Wearing we thought that was interesting there. Kasie hunt, this seems to be this push and pull here. The governors want theq feds to take more control. E1 and the president definitely doesnt want tosn do that. And evenn1 Asa Hutchinson in your conversation there, hes resisted thatt statewide stayathome order, as you pointed out, but he also said in that interview, he was going to be wearing a mask and modeling the guidelines, the Surgeon General just a minute earlier putting a face mask on, on e1 camera. Clearly, our Public Health officials believe that this is a message that they want to send to people inco the strongest possible terms. And this is, of course, an evolution. We were initially all told this wasnt necessary unless you were sick,i] b5 y c this point, wh the president is saying, chuck, were seeing in any polling thats being done, were seeing itok in how people are respondi. More people are listening to chat this president has to say presidency because we are all tuned in trying to figure out how to make our way through this together. And so if he wants americans to wear masks, he needs to say that very directly, and we all know, especially those of us who are trying to raise children, you have to model the behavior yourself to convince others to follow. Thats for sure. Pat mccrory, as a fover governor, as a former mayor, i know youre sympathetic to somebody above your pay grade trying to tell you how to run your state or run your city. I get that. But when is the point as a governor that you actually want the feds in charge . Well, one thing i have been in the fog of war during hurricanes and tornadoes and winter storms where youre making life and death decisions whilefa balancing the economy a also balancing the turf between not just the federal government and State Government but if i e state, government but if i theres turf among the county Health Directors and thei] governor. And as you get closer to the people and the elected officials n in the fog of war, you have mixed data. You have mixed communication. And you have evolving opinions based upon that new data. Thatsjf contap happening. The one thing i dont like thats happe. Rft is the blame game. You know, the washington what you need to do is go, what do we need to do conow . And be specific. And we all live in our lanes of responsibility, and some of thosema lanes overlap, and the are gray areas. This is not unusual in a fog of war. . atju im 5aobsessed, i put that quo up for the surgeon okgeneral, t Public Health official from ohio, amy acton. Are you surprised more politicians arent erring on the side of caution. It seems if youre wrong about this, boy, is that a bad way to be wrong. if youre wrong and you have been overly alarmist, well, ngkody extra has died. If youre wrong and you have underplayed, boy, you have au t to answer for. I had a theme during our crisis and hurricanesu was be overprepared and hopefully be underwhelmed. And that i think should be the goal of every leader. There is this tremendous balance that we all have, and one thing about even the stayathome policy, i could say it almost discriminates against the bluecollar worker who is watching us do our job from long distance. The bluecollar worker cant stay at home to keep the manufacturing lines open of textile and rubber and cloth that we need in our hospitals rig4qnow, the delivery trucks, thee1 grocery stores, the bluecollarq worker is going, wait a minute, i dont get to stay at home. Helene cooper, theres been ] lot of chatteri] about the president ought to appoint, you know, ought to deputize, maybe its a member of the joint e1 chiefs, a general of maybe, you know, somebody of the status of a jim mattis, somebody like ni that, to basically become the czar here. There has been a lot of that. As you know, at the pentagon, the reason people are saying to dofa this, to appoint a general is the pentagon, they specialize in planning. Thats what they do all the time, and in a wartime situation. Its just been so fascinating, though, chuck, seeing the American Government response to american govu much we have e to appeared to lag by a goodr days to two weeks this virus days to two weeks this virus with everything that werm1 doing. The fact that you have the administration, the white house, finally coming on and saying we should be wearing face masks is something that many, many Health Officials say should have happened a month ago, and the fact you still dont have the president onboard with that, i think, is hugely significant. Im not sure which kings and queens he thinks are coming to the white house that he needs to be worried about greeting with a face mask on, but the very idea t;q President Trump is talking about appearance, that it wont look good for him to be seen wearing a face maskn1 at axd ti when you have thousands upon thousands of americans dying and so thee1 numbers are looking li theyre about to go shockingly higher saju a lot about leadership in a time of crisis. Very quickly, kasie hunt, i 1 noticed we have 6. 6 unemployment claims this weec,v and it seems like that number made nancyok pelosi andw3 Mitch Mcconnell sa oh, we should agree on the next round of spending. This is coming soon, isnt it . Nancy pelosini earlier this week, chuck, was ready to Start Talking about infrastructure projects, jobs bills, essentially, the next phase of this. It only took 24 to 36 hours for her to suddenly turn around and say, you know whau. Actually, were still in the emergency relief phase of this. And i think you are going to see congress try to act as quickly as possiblew3 in that vein. Yeah, and it almost will be like a refill the coffers of what wasco promisedw3 with the t round, which were still trying to get e1out, the Small Busines loans, t unemployment. All week long, youll see a lot of technical problems on that front. I hope folks are patient on there. Iok have to leave it there. Thank you guys for our shortened panel. Coming up, author Michael Lewis on finding creative ways to fight the pandemic. First, the scene at Jefferson Hospital in philadelphia where Health Care Workers had a message for all of usxd and the tried to do it with a smile. 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At Fisher Investments were clearly different. You may not be thinking about blood donation, but blood is needed to save the lives of people who are sick with a range of illnesses. Its easy and safe to give. If you are in good health, please donate. We need heroes now. Visit red cross blood dot org to schedule an appointment. Welcome back. Michael lewis has spent his career chronicling people who find creative ways to identify and solve problems. In his latest book,fa the fifth risk, me essentially describes what happens when in his view, the Trump Administration dumbed down government tmn 5u to function properly. So is the Trump Administration prepared to take all of this on during this Current Crisis . Michael lewis joins me now, social distancing from berkeley, california. i lc long time, first time, as far as im concerned. Good to have you on. Gouz see you, e1chuck. Let me just start with the premise of your book, which you were looking at the transition. And i say i want tow3 connec some dots here. Im going to put up a screen grab of all of the people who have been ine1 charge of the department of Homeland Security in the Trump Administration. Five different people. Two have been senateconfirmed. Three actings including the situation here. It feels as if, i know dhs wasnt a part of your book, but that i]amount is that the definition of the fifth risk here, sometimes, personnel . You know, the book, the starting point for the book is you really havet to think abou the federal government as this as a manager of portfolio of risks, right . Anio many are catastrophic and you dont know what youre going to have to deal with t but ther dealing with it. Yu pzpipa caug reason i wrote the book is we had this process to hand over thee1ni government. And it wsqu11e by law theni Obama Administration was required toni spend a great dea of time preparing tovnn hand th government over to whoever succeeded it. And obama took it really seriously because bush had handed the government over so well to him, he thought. And trump, on his side, had built this enterprise of 500 people hell roll into the department of Homeland Security, the department of agriculture, wherever, and he fired them the day after the election. So the transition never happened. Thats the beginning of this whole story. The beginning of our response to the pandemic. The knowledge of how you dealt with, i dont know, say, an Ebola Outbreak was never really transferred to the Trump Administration. And i think that if youre going to when people look back and tell the story of this crisis, theyll start there. Theres no doubt they will. Look, i want to pivot a little bit. You just did a podcast and you noted were going to learn a lot about our society during this pandemic that is probably going to surface problems we didnt know we needed to solve. What are a few that youre seeing now that you think we need to be keeping an eye on . Are you talking about like risks we should be terrified of . You know yes. Well, look. This in some ways was not the fifth risk in my mind was the risk that you werent really that you werent really you didnt have top of mind. And i came to the idea because i walked into the department of energy and got the briefing from the chief risk officer that the Trump Administration had not bothered to get. I asked, like, what are the top five things youre worried about just in the department of energy. He said, look, there are a lot of really smart people dealing with things like, one, preventing a Nuclear Weapon from going off when it shouldnt go off. Two, preventing the electric grid from going down or coming under attack. Three, north korea getting a weapon they actually deliver to the west coast. It was like one thing after another. And there were steps being taken to prevent these bad things from happening. Now, the question is, across an administration thats being run by a person who is largely indifferent to it, to what extent is this portfolio of risks more likely to happen . And the thing that worried me and the thing that got me interested in writing the book in the first place, was like if something actually happens, i dont know what it is, whats going to happen, but when it happens, theyre not going to be prepared to deal with it. Now we know what happened. So were now in the land of Second Best Solutions because we had someone who neglected the instrument, the tool for dealing with the crisis. Look, were going to end up having something will change in our society based on this. One of the things i have wondered about is were learning whos essential. Were finding out the truck driver is a lot more essential than some of us, the person who stocks the shelves, a lot more essential. Do you see a reckoning on the economic front that rights those wrongs in time . You know, the first thing that might come out of this is an appreciation of the federal government, of what it does. Its basic job is to keep us safe. If we dont Pay Attention to how its run, we will find ourselves in this situation all over again. So i think thats the big thing. I think thats the big thing that comes out. All right. Michael lewis, i have to leave it there. Also wish i had more time with you and ill find a way to get more time with you down the road. Thank you, and thank you to all of you who have been watching today. Please continue to practice that social distancing. Doing everything you can to keep your family and neighbors safe. The sooner we do it, the sooner well get through this. Well be back next week because if its sunday, its meet the press. By the end of my world tour ill turn you all into rock zombies. Rock and roll [ screaming ] if were gonna save the world we need to unite all the trolls. Like country. The country trolls look friendly. Get em. [ screaming ] hip hop. Tiny diamond is my name peace and love tiny and daddy out. And techno. Get ready for the drop. Wait for it. Come on man one more time the World Premiere is in your home friday. Go to watchtrolls. Com for more. In the days ahead, america will endure the peak of this terrible pandemic. Our warriors in this life and death battle are the incredible doctors and nurses and Health Care Workers on the front line of the fight we pledge to them our eternal gratitude and everlasting support. As americas Surgeon General also said, were heading into this generations pearl harbor moment as the surge in coronavirus cases and deaths is expected to reach new heights in the coming days. To the front lines where paramedics are being pushed to the limit