It undermines the National Security of the United States. I think its devastating. Most republicans defend the president. From my point of view to impeach any president over a phone call like this would be insane. Totally appropriate. Theres nothing in that. But some cracks emerge. I want to say to the president , this is not okay. That conversation is not okay. My guests this morning, adam schiff, chairman of the house intelligence committee. The number two house republican, Steve Scalise. And the former u. S. Ambassador to russia, Michael Mcfaul. Plus the politics of impeachment. Peril for the preside and for joe biden. He will stop at nothing to hold on to power. Does biden emerge damaged or as a more sympathetic figure . Joining me for insight and analysis are yamic hechlt alcindor. Mark leibovich, chief correspondent for the New York Times magazine. President ial historian Doris Kearns Goodwin and hugh hewitt, host on thealem radio network. Welcome to sunday and a special edition of meet the press. Announcer from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is a special edition of meet the press with chuck todd. Good sunday morning. For anyone on either side of the red blue divide who was frustrated by the pace of the Mueller Investigation, ten days in september have provided a staggering turn of events. It was just last week that the Washington Post broke the whistleblower story about President Trumps phone call with ukraines president. Immediately support among House Democrats for impeachment proceedings exploded into a majority of the house. Leaving nancy pelosi no choice but to do what progressives had demanded and she had resisted for so long, announce a formal impeachment inquiry. Rather than a drip, drip, drip, theres been a gusher of bad news for the president since then. Its important to note that republicans have avoided pushing back on the substance of the whistleblowers charges. Theres a lot we dont know at this point. We dont know all the details that could emerge in an impeachment case against President Trump. We dont know with any certainty that republicans will rally around mr. Trump as they did so comfortably the last time. And we dont know whether President Trumps baseless charges against joe biden and ukraine will make biden a more sympathetic figure or tarnish him to the benefit of another democratic candidate, like Elizabeth Warren. But there is something that both sides think they do know, that this new crisis is easier to understand and presents a greater threat to the president than the Mueller Investigation ever did. We cannot ignore our oath of office to protect and defend the constitution. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announcing a formal impeachment inquiry after months of resistance following the revelation that the president pressured ukraines president to investigate a political opponent, joe biden, while withholding military aid. It is hard to imagine a more fundamental abuse of that office. Its another witch hunt. Here we go again. On wednesday, the white house released detailed notes from that july 25th call with ukraines president. After president zelensky expressed his desire for more military equipment, including javelin antitank missiles, President Trump responded, i would like you to do us a favor, though, asking ukraine to investigate the 2016 election and unfounded conspiracies about joe biden and his son. President zelensky raises the question of defensive aid, and within minutes the president of the United States is asking him to investigate joe biden. He will stop at nothing to hold on to power. Its not surprising that ive become the object of his attention. On thursday, another bombshell. The cia whistleblower complaint made public, detailing a in nine pages that the president is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 u. S. Election. Describing months of contacts between the president s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, whom the wbl names more than 30 times and ukrainian officials, alleging white house officials attempted to lock down the record of the call, hiding it in a highly classified computer system. Now theres a coverup of the coverup. By late friday House Democrats had already subpoenaed secretary of state mike pompeo for documents and scheduled depositions with five state Department Officials named in the whistleblower complaint. Are you willing to testify in front of congress . Well, theres a lot of problems with that. Would i like to testify and tell my story . Sure. There are things that i cant testify to because im a lawyer. Inside the west wing there is rising anxiety, unease and concern. Most republicans in congress have defended the president. When i think of whistleblower complaints, i think of somebody who saw something that was wrong and came forward to say so. This is hearsay information. But small cracks are already emerging. I did read the transcript. It remains troubling in the extreme. Republicans ought not to be rushing to circle the wagons and say theres no there, there when theres obviously lots thats very troubling there. And even some trump allies are beginning to question giulianis role. Hes wild as a march hare. Hes a smart guy, but hes a freerange chicken. I mean he just kind of gets on out there. And joining me now from greenville, south carolina, is the chairman of the house intelligence committee, the man likely leading most of this investigation, democrat adam schiff of california. Congressman, welcome back to meet the press. Thank you. Great to be with you. Let me start with the whistleblowers complaint. It does feel as if it is your road map. I believe you said its the road map for your investigation. How much of your investigation is about the specifics of what the president did with the aid, with ukraine, with Rudy Giuliani, and how much of your investigation is about the attempt to keep that from you . Well, i think really the gravum of the offense is the president using the power of his office to coerce a foreign nation to help his president ial campaign to once again interfere in our election and at the same time withholding foreign aid that that country so desperately needs to fight off the russians. That to me is the most serious consolation of issues. I know many people suggested and it may have been true in the past that the coverup is the bigger crime. Sometimes the coverup is the easier crime to prove but here, yes, the coverup is very serious, but i dont want to lose sight of that fundamental broach of the president s oath of office, the duty to defends our country, our constitution. Here the president is once again not just inviting but coercing a foreign nation to get involved to try to help him in yet another president ial election. So to me thats the most serious set of offenses. In order to get the full picture, youre going to have to get the testimony of apparently quite a few white house officials. Theyre unnamed in the whistleblower report. Do you expect to end up fighting over things like executive privilege and Attorney Client privilege to the point that you may not get all the facts . I have to expect that theyre going to fight us tooth and nail, but were going to start. We have a hearing on friday, for example, closed session with the Inspector General. This is the second time were bringing him in now that we have the whistleblower complaint to go through what steps that he took to corroborate the information in the complaint, what witnesses that he spoke with so that we can follow up with those witnesses ourselves. Will the white house fight us on this . I have to imagine theyll fight us tooth and nail. And yet even as they do, the more that they fight to try to prevent and obstruct the lawful functions of congress, the more theyre going to make a case for impeachment on obstruction of justice of congress of rule of law. Is that why you put that in your release, that basically youre going to take any attempt at preventing somebody from testifying before your committee that you believe legitimately has some information to shed light on what happened, you will treat that as an obstruction of justice . We will treat that as evidence of obstruction of justice, as evidence of obstructing the lawful functions of congress because the president cant have it both ways. He cant both prevent us from getting evidence on the serious underlying crimes or potential crimes, the serious breach of his oath of office, and at the same time obstruct our investigation. So even as he tries to weaken our ability to get facts on one, hell strengthen the facts on the other. Do you know the whistleblower yet . I dont. Have you met them . I dont know the no. No. Do you when do you expect first of all, do you expect the whistleblower to testify . And if so, when . Yes, and i hope very soon. Excuse me. I hope very soon. All that needs to be done at this point is to make sure that the attorneys that representhe whistleblower get the clearanceshat th need to be able to accompany the whistleblower to testimony and that we figure out the logistics to make sure that we protect the identity of the whistleblower. Thats our paramount concern here. This whistleblower has done obviously a cardina service to the country by exposing wrongdoing of the most serious kind, a breach of the president s duty to the country that endangers our security. Hes got to be worried about his own security right now with the president issuing threats like he did the other day. Your committee has seen material end up in the white house before, end up with the president s team before. Are you confident that your committee can protect the identity . Everybody in your committee on both sides of the oil cidentity this whistleblower from the ire of the president . Im certainly going to do everything humanly possible as chair to make sure thats what happens. And, yes, we have been concerned for some time about back channels between our now minority and the white house. In fact maybe even front channels, not just back channels. This is Serious Business here. The president has suggested that people like this whistleblower should be treated the way that we used to treat spies and traitors. We used to execute spies and traitors. Theres no messing around here. Whats more, we want to protect this whistleblower, but we also want to encourage others that are aware of this wrongdoing or other wrongdoing to come forward. Thats a vital interest of ours as well. There are three phone calls excuse me, two phone calls and one meeting that the president has had with vladimir putin. Actually all of them have taken place since the election of the ukrainian president , zelensky. A phone call on may 3rd, a meeting ondown 28th and a phone call on july 21st, six days after the zelensky phone call in question. Do you think youll ever know the contents of any of those conversations . I certainly hope that we can find out. And again, the paramount need here is to protect the National Security of the United States and see whether in the conversations with other World Leaders and in particular with putin that the president was also undermining our security in a way that he thought would personally benefit his campaign. If those conversations with putin or with other World Leaders are sequestered in that same electronic file that is meant for covert action, not meant for this, if theres an effort to hide those and cover those up, yes, were determined to find out. If youre trying to be speedy with this investigation while also being thorough, is there a point where you just have to you have to wrap things up, you have to be done with whatever you can investigate by a date certain . I keep hearing the word thanksgiving thrown around. Is that the timetable the public should expect . We havent set a timetable except that we want to do this as urgently as possible. We also recognize, though, the gravity of this situation and that its going to take some time to get the full facts and be able to flesh them out. Chuck, i will say this having worked on investigations as a prosecutor before i was in congress, there is a natural rhythm to an investigation and you get to way points where the next increment of evidence youre going to get may take quite a bit of time. When we get to those points well have to make a decision do we have to have a consensus now about where we were, what this means and whether we need to travel down the road of articles of impeachment or do we have more time to do more work. Im curious what you think of the argument that says no matter where you are, especially if you are there, if you think president should be thrown out of office, that because were so close to november of 2020 that the election is the better place for that to happen. What do you say to those making that argument . You know, chuck, i was making that argument myself until these facts came to light that this is an extraordinary remedy. It should only be used in extraordinary circumstances. But here what the president has done is such of such an egregious character that theres a real risk in not moving forward with an impeachment. And i think when you look at the fact that the president engaged in this corrupt conduct with president zelensky, corrupt on the president s part, not on zelenskys part, the day after the mueller hearing, the lesson this president appears to have received is that he can do whatever he wants, he can violate his oath of office, he can refuse to defend our constitution, he can invite further foreign interference in our affairs, he can try to cover it up and there will be no consequence and no accountability. That is simply too dangerous to be left that way. And so, yes, i certainly think that the gravity of the situation demands that we move forward with the inquiry. Okay. And well have to determine whether that also means return of articles. Are we expecting to see Rudy Giuliani testify . I dont want to commit myself to that at this point. We certainly need to do a lot of work to find out what giuliani has been doing in ukraine. It appears from that conversation that the ukraine president understood what was going to be asked of him on that call, and that very likely was the result of work that Rudy Giuliani and some of his minions were doing in ukraine. So were going to need to get to the bottom of it. Whether it will be productive to bring him in, well make that decision down the road. Congressman adam schiff, the man thats going to be charged with leading most of this investigation on the house intelligence committee, thanks for coming on and sharing your views. Much appreciate it. Thanks, chuck. Joining me now from kenner, louisiana, is the number two republican in the house, Steve Scalise of louisiana. Welcome back to meet the press, sir. Chuck, good to be back with you. Due to an accident on email, we know some of the talking points that the white house has sent over to house republicans, including the defense that they have is saying there was no quid pro quo in the phone call, that that in itself should be enough to stave off of impeachment. But i am curious, when you hear and read the phrase i want you to do us a favor, though, and you know, again, i think the president of ukraine has the internet so he knew that aid was frozen. How do you interpret it if its not a quid pro quo . How do you interpret it, i need you to do us a favor, though. First of all, chuck, if you read that sentence, what the president is talking about is crowdstrike. Hes talking about the 2016 does that make it better . Does that make it better . Primesident trump is trying look into the interference by russia so it doesnt happen again. I thought you would be concerned about making sure it doesnt happen as well but thats what hes talking about, not joe biden. The intelligence community, his own intelligence folks have said it was russia that did the hack. Hes the only person that seems to believe that russia didnt do the hack. So the crowdstrike, does that even make you more not at all. Disturbed that he doesnt believe our own intelligence . Crowdstrike, first of all, was the one who got the server and never shared it with the fbi, never shared it with anybody. Theres still a lot of information were trying to find out about how the russians interfered with our election when barack obama was president , and im glad President Trump continues to look into that interference so it doesnt happen again. Hes the one trying to root it out. By the way, President Trump is the one whos been standing up to russia. They talked about javelin missiles in that call. President trump sold javelin missiles to knock those tanks out that russia was sending into the ukraine. Obama wouldnt sell those javelin missiles. You might want to ask president obama or joe biden why they wouldnt sell the javelins so ukraine could stop russia from coming in with those tanks but President Trump did and continues to provide relief. Weve given a lot of relief. In fact President Trump has probably given more help to ukraine than any other president. It seems as if you endorse the president sort of oneman operation by Rudy Giuliani to go around the government and try to do his own investigation. Ive not understood this. If the president doesnt believe the u. S. Governments assessment of what the russians did, why doesnt he ask the fbi to investigate . Why is he asking Rudy Giuliani to go to a foreign country to do it . Do you understand do you understand that . Well, you can ask Rudy Giuliani. That and the chairman himself said hes not even sure if he would bring rudy. But keep in mind the chairman said a lot of things, made a lot of baseless accusations. Chairman schiff is the one who for two years saying he had more than circumstantial evidence that President Trump colluded with russia on the Mueller Investigation. And that turned out not to be true. And so instead of saying, okay, we were wrong, lets move on, they continue to go down this road of impeachment regardless of the facts. You know, they have said that there were high crimes and misdemeanors. The actual author of the articles of impeachment just recently a few days ago said that if they dont impeach President Trump, he might get reelected. He will get reelected is what he said. The framers did not put the power of impeachment in the constitution so that you could stop somebody from getting elected who was duly elected in 2016. Its a high crime and misdemeanor standard and they should take that with the respect that it deserves in the house. Lets take the word impeachment out of this. Given what Rudy Giuliani was doing or not doing, we dont know, given what the president may have meant with i would like you to do us a favor, though but we dont know, is this not worthy of congressional oversight . Is this not worthy of an investigation . Do you want to know what it is that Rudy Giuliani was doing sort of either on his own or against the wishes of some people in the government . Is this not worthy of an investigation . Again, skip the impeachment part for a second. Well, they have been investigating President Trump for over two years and the entire way making baseless allegations. Speaker pelosi the day before the transcript came out was saying that there was going to show that the president broke the law and then they didnt have any quid pro quo. All of the things that they were saying. Theyre investigating everything, and instead of, by the way, we should be moving usmca to get a better trade deal. We should be passing Bipartisan Legislation to lower drug prices. They wont bring those bills to the floor because all theyre focused on is impeachment, chuck. Do you approve of all of this . You can ask Rudy Giuliani. But keep in mind Rudy Giuliani what about congress . That conversation happened chuck, if youd let me answer, that conversation with president zelensky happened right after the Mueller Report came out after two years of an investigation. Rudy giuliani was the president s personal attorney in that case. So, again, you can ask rudy what he was doing. I know that what President Trump talked about was continuing to find out what happened with russian interference in the 2016 election because he has been standing up to russia and theres a strong record, by the way, of how President Trump has stood up to russia when barack obama wouldnt and joe biden was Vice President and they wouldnt stand up to russia. Do you think it was appropriate for the president to ask a foreign leader for help investigating his chief political rival for 2020 . Again, go look at what he talked about in that conversation. He was talking about the 2016 interference that happened in our election. Look, there have been media reports for years, joe biden himself bragged long before he was a candidate for president that he went there to ukraine and held the billion dollars back. You know, im leaving in six hours unless they fire the prosecutor. My goodness, chuck, a lot of people have been asking that to be investigated for years. Congressman, you know the truth behind that. Why are you putting it out there as if its a, oh, my gosh, we have no idea what he was talking about then. I mean youre taking something that actually happened that the entire western alliance supported. This was a bipartisan effort, as you know, in congress that supported this effort i dont know that the western alliance supported him holding the billion dollars of course there was a lot of corruption. Thats why zelensky got elected with a mandate to clean up corruption. He and President Trump are talking about that in the conversation. Things that both of them are doing to clean up corruption and drain the swamp. Look, all of this stuff with this whistleblower report, there were a lot of things if you read the whistleblower report that are concerning in terms of allegations that were very partisan. In fact the Justice Department or the Inspector General determined that the whistleblower does have a political bias. You know, again, let him go forward and make accusations, but a lot of these accusations have turned out not to be true. Every time ive asked you if youre concerned about the actions the president took, youve avoided answering this specific question and instead focused on dont try to infer. Im not. Im just asking. You seem to be uncomfortable let me put it this way. You seem uncomfortable defending the president s actions. Dont put words in my mouth. Okay, ill let you finish but let me finish my statement. Well, youve made a lot of statements and accusations that arent true, chuck. President trump i dont think ive made one. Was looking into the 2016 collusion and interference that russia had when barack obama was president. We all know that happened under Barack Obamas watch. You all tied it to trump and trump continues to look into it. Im glad trump continues to look into the interference that russia tried to do in our election. So you say dont go to the fbi, go to a foreign sglovmt this isnt a private investigation, chuck. What is it . You can talk about rudy separately. There is no private investigation, theres been a public government investigation into the collusion that russia had trying to interfere with our elections. We still havent gotten to the bottom of it. Theres still a lot of serious questions that need to be answered so it doesnt happen again. And President Trump has continued to be aggressive not only at that but pushing back against russia in many other ways. I mentioned the javelin missiles. Its President Trump who gave sold the javelin missiles to ukraine so that we can bust those russian tanks. All right. Obama didnt do that, boy y way. After reading that detailed note, dont call it a transcript, you are comfortable that the president is mixing he appears to be mixing politics and government policy. Does he not wait, russian interference with our election, it might be politics and the joe biden but a Foreign Government tried to interfere with our election. Hes concerned hes trafficking in a Conspiracy Theory. And in fact hes saying its not. He seems to be doing a russian propaganda thing with saying its the ukraine with the server with the candlestick or something. It sounds like youre reading a lot of these democrat talking points. The people that have been saying for years that the president was involved in all of these other things, and then none of it turned out to be true. The Mueller Investigation was their ticket to impeachment. Shouldn bthe way, chuck, shouldnt they first have voted to start an impeachment inquiry, which has always happened . This is only three times in the history of our country that congress has moved articles of impeachment. They wouldnt even do that. Its like theyre trying to shield their members from voting on this while they continue to go down the drum beat of impeachment because as the author of impeachment articles said, hes concerned the president will get reelected. Thats not why you impeach an president. We have an election next year to deal with that. I will leave it there. Number two in the house thanks for coming on and sharing your views. Good to be with you. Coming up, the panel and the next steps on the road to impeachment. Impeachment. Classical Music playing throughout for a restless nights sleep. Pain settle theres a better choice. Aleve pm. The only one to combine a safe sleep aid and the 12hour painrelieving strength of aleve that dares to last into the morning. So you feel refreshed. Aleve pm. Theres a better choice. Test test test of 5g with uideband, so more screaming, streaming, posting fans. Can experience 5g all at once. This is happening in 13 stadiums all across the country. Now if verizon 5g can do this for the nfl. Imagine what it can do for you. When i was diagnosed with ms, the firstwas my family. Ht about i came home and cried. But, as ive seen my disease progress, the medicine has progressed right alongside it. Yi to make medications more affordable is important, but if washington isnt careful we might leave innovation behind. Lets fix the system the right way. Innovation is hope, and the last thing you want to lose in life is hope. Welcome back. The ukraine story has moved at warp speed and its understandable if people are confused about what the president is accused of doing, why he called the ukraine president. Im joined by Michael Mcfaul, president obamas ambassador to russia. Hes the author to cold war to hot peace. Hes a senior fellow at the hoover institution. He and i are going to walk you through a brief timeline to at least help you understand how we got to the point were at. Michael mcfaul, well try to do this the way you spending your days. Standing up here in front of our slides. In front of our slides. Thanks for having me, chuck. The phone call was actually the middle, it looks like yes. Of this controversy, not the beginning. In fact the beginning goes back to early 19 when as personal attorney for President Trump, Rudy Giuliani starts looking for ukrainian contacts to help him in Rudy Giulianis words find out the origins of the Mueller Report. Right. Look for the real hackers potentially. Right. Looking for some dirt on joe biden. He meets with a prosecutor general by the name of lucenko a few times and what is he looking for exactly . Hes trying to get a Conspiracy Theory that ukraine, not russia, hacked the dnc and joe biden had a former prosecutor fired simple low to help his son. Walk me through these. Lets start with joe biden and the prosecutor. The man before luscneko was the one we were putting pressure on and he wasnt doing enough to investigate corruption, including bidens son. So when he comes on the scene, giuliani thinks he has a new partner, somebody he can go after this story and he does aggressively. The second part is a little more cockamamie. They want to build this theory that somehow a Company Called crowdstrike found the emails, publicized them, some ukrainian connection which i dont understand and that was a way to help Hillary Clinton win the election. But both of those stories mr. Giuliani is trying to find, thats why hes engaged with ukraine. Well, he is able to get some of this stuff into the conservative echo chamber, mostly through fox news. You seeonstantly through the month of march and on twitter ukraine and biden and whats this and all this stuff. So creating this predicate that somehow this matters. And then something out of the ordinary happens to their plan. April 21st, a surprise victor in the ukrainian president ial election. Why did this set them back . Because t prious prosecutor, mr. Luscenko was their guy. He was working with giuliani and suddenly his boss loses the election. All this work mr. Giuliani had done to curry favor with the president s lead investigator, whos this zelensky guy. How are we going to keep pushing this story with a brand w president. Clearly the president maybe needed leverage, so what do they do. They force out the ambassador who had been getting in a back and forth with rudy a dgiulian. Giuliani cancels his own trip to meet with some people close to zelensky. Then this, the ultimate snub, Vice President pence was going to lead our delegation to zelenskys inauguration. They yank him and it was meant to send a message. July 18th a bigger message. They announced the freezing of the aid, nearly 400 million that was supposed to go to ukraine. It isnt clear if the Ukrainian Government knew it was definitely being frozen over all of this, but of course this leads to the phone call on july 25th, which, by the way, happened the day after muellers testimony before congress. We think its worthy of this. But all of those actions leads us to i would like you to do us a favor, though. This was about what . Well, this is about President Trump asking president zelensky to help him find dirt on his political opponent in 2020. Its clear as day in the transcript. And there is leverage there. Whether exactly what they knew i dont think is important. Theres always leverage when youre talking to the president of the United States because all leaders of the world want to have a Good Relationship with the president. Its especially important when your country is occupied by putin and you need the leader of the free world to be on your side. And when anybody says let me ask for a favor, theres no favors in diplomacy, everything is a quid pro quo. Everything is you do this, ill help you. This triggers, obviously, a whole bunch of concere whistleo his general counsel at cia. Then hes worried its going to get squashed, files the whistleblower complaint. The house begins an investigation. The administration does release the aid to ukraine very quickly, but at this point it seems to be too late and then we find out of course this is all about ukraine. Whats the is there any part of this that you think we dont yet know when it comes to the ukrainian side that will add to this story . I think its pretty clear cut, myself. I dont think this is a case where we need to know lots more details. The president of the United States used his office not to advance American National interests but his private electoral gains. The only piece im interested in, chuck, is whats the russia angle . Just a few days after that call, hes on the phone with vladimir putin. It sounds like that call has also been, you know, somehow put on the secret server. Yep. I would love to know what he talked about with putin. Will congress ever see any of the communications between the president and putin . That is going to be something i have a feeling were going to talk a lot about. Bassador mam without my medication, my small tremors would be extreme. Without it, i cannot write my name. I was diagnosed with parkinsons. I had to retire from law enforcement. It was devastating. One of my medications is three thousand dollars per month. Prescription drugs do not work if you cannot afford them. For sixty years, aarp has been fighting for people like larry. And we wont stop. Join us in fighting for whats right. When i lost my sight, my biggest fear was losing my independence. Mmm. Good. So ivepent my life developing technology to help the visually impaired. We are so good. We built a guide that uses ibm watson. To help the blind. It is already working in cities like tokyo. My dream is to help millions more people like me. It is already working in cities like tokyo. Thisdoin more. Bout. With less. Doers need energy. And demand for it is expected to grow. So chevrons finding more homegrown energy, more precisely. Digitizing the way we work with advanced Data Analytics helping us develop more productive wells. And were exploring ways to use Renewable Energy in our operations. Doin more. With less. More data and precision. To help meet growing demand. Thats going to get a lot of likes. Chevron. Innovating to meet the energy demands of today and tomorrow. Ilong before i had moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. Ive always been the ringleader. Had a zest for life. Flash forward then ra kept me from the important things. And what my doctor said surprised m she said my joint pain could mean permanent joint damage. And enbrel helps relieve joint pain and helps stop that joint damage. Ask about enbrel, so you can get back to being your true self. Enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. Serious,etatal, events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders, and allergic reactions have ourred. Tell your doctor if youve been some place where fungal infections are common or if youre prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. Dont start enbrel if you have annfection like the flu. Visit enbrel. Com to see how yor joint damage could progress. Enbrel. Fda approved for over 20 years. Welcome back the panel is here. Hugh hewitt, host on the salem radio network. Yamiche alcindor, president ial historian Doris Kearns Goodwin whose book leadership in Turbulent Times comes out in paper book this week and mark leibovich, chief National Correspondent for the New York Times magazine doris, leadership in Turbulent Times. We did some voter we talked to a few voters in New Hampshire yesterday just to see how theyre responding quickly take it with a grain of salt, but the comments were interesting. Take a listen. A lot of people like trump, but theyre too scared to say anything because weve got some wackos that want to punch you in the face if you say you like trump. I think we should go through the process, whether it messes with the outcome of the 2020 election, i think thats its own kind of ball of wax. I think that were divided so moving anyway, right, so moving forward with potential impeachment procedures i think is not going to really do anything different. Give us your sort of that historical view. Whats happening well, you know, when i look back at the three impeachments that ive lived through, i really was only there for nixon and clinton but i feel like i was there for Andrew Johnson the critical thing is how is history going to regard what the house is doing right now will it be like nixon, that the consensus will be afterwards that they have to do this because he has to be held accountable and in the end republicans came along and in ed the end ford says our Long National nightmare is over or will it be like clinton, regarded as a partisan endeavor, it boosts clinton, in that case would boost trump and doesnt lead to a discussion and the real challenge, i think, is the debate within the way theyre going to conduct these hearings they cant just throw around words like abuse of power or violation of oath, they have to explain it it has to be a giant civics lesson to the entire country to understand why are these things such that these people had to feel the need to impeach him now before the election. And thats the story that has to be told. Just like these people are talking toif t, yre successful in making it clear that they think he should be impeached, somebody has to be able to tell a story to the person next to them sitting in the bar that has a beginning, middle and an end. This is why it had to be done. If they cant do that and simply goes away as part of the russia investigation, the country will be divided more than ever before. And theres a need for speed. Theres a need for speedy thoroughness is that possible its going to be hard i think what people do miss here, we say everyone is divided anyway people are in their corners. There actually is a middle here. The middle is narrow its narrower than it was in the 70s during watergate. But there is a time and it would behoove democrats to do this as quickly as possible to actually win over 10 in the middle of this who are amenable to some facts that could potentially change their mind on some things. If this stays a factfinding mission, it likely will continue to get support early polling is showing the public is open to this investigation. To thi i want to pick up on something that professor kearns said he was my student i was her student she was like 10. The most important thing that was said this morning thus far is adam schiff came on and he went full alice in wonderland queen of hearts. Verdict first, trial later i believe he destroyed his credibility this morning on this show as a fair arbiter of this process. The key other thing about is there enough time, is there a middle, that middle is tired of investigating President Trump. It has gone on for two years and the most interesting part of the nancy pelosi decision to go for a fast impeachment is the implicit but very real concession that the Mueller Report had no impeachable offense, no obstruction, no collusion. Its gone. They have erased it from the record so adam schiff is biased and nancy pelosi has admitted that mueller exonerated trump lets talk about the simple story that democrats have been searching for for a veryong time the Mueller Report was a 448page report that people were confused about now they have a sentence thats about 25 words that says the president of the United States was trying to get a foreign country to interfere in the 2020 election thats what democrats have been looking for their entire time that President Trump was in office and they finally have it here i think thats why we see representative schiff saying the coverup might be important but the most important thing is what the president said on the call thats whats at the heart of this and i think thats why theres Political Risk for both democrats and republicans. I want to get to some of the key players that will become stars of this investigation. These are the folks named in the whistleblower complaint pence, barr, pompeo, giuliani, yovanovitch, volker, sondland. Vr and u. S. Attorney durham i want to focus on Rudy Giuliani it looks like if things get really bad for the president , rudy is looking like the easiest scapegoat. Republicans are ready to turn on him. I wish he would shut up says the headline i think it would be a good thing if he would take a vacation. Hes as wild as a march hare says john kennedy. Im not sure hes helping the president being on tv every 15 minutes said lindsey graham. I wish he would shut up said another republican lawmaker. Hugh hewitt, could rudy be the guy everybody concentrates, yeah, i dont like this. Dont impeach the president. Rudy is a bad guy. Hes not john dean and while he is an object of scorn, inside the beltway he cuts through everything outside the beltway when you go to warren, ohio, people hear him, respect him and listen to him. Lebo . I think they hear him because he is everywhere he is a proxy for the president. Hes his personal attorney or sometimes hes a freerange chicken as senator kennedy would say, right but he also is someone who the fact that hes out there so much is emblematic of the fact that a lot of republicans are not comfortable being out there very much. The defense of President Trump has not come to any kind of coherent message look, whatever Rudy Giuliani says on a given day becomes the message and he becomes the lightning rod here. When you talk to Rudy Giuliani, the issue with that is hes also talking about other people that he says were involved he says the state department called me. He keeps inviting he basically says, here, adam schiff, here are more people to subpoena. Here a more people to subpoena, and theres this idea that there are a long list of people that Rudy Giuliani says are part of that even though the Mueller Report might not have been impeachable offenses, what you see in the Mueller Report is a cast of characters either trying to mitigate the president s actions or trying to help them along in the complaint what do you see . A group of people either trying to help him, which is Rudy Giuliani, or trying to mitigate him, which is kurt volker. Doris, you mentioned something very smart with the nixon impeachment. In the moment it was very partisan after it was over, there was a consensus. You hear mitt romney say deeply troubling. You hear ben sasse saying lets not quickly rally around here. Are those the is that what youre watching for . I think its really important for the country, if this is going to go through, that it becomes at least more bipartisan than it is at the beginning. When you do hear republican senators beginning to speak up, that what we saw on the face is troubling. If more facts come out, maybe more people will come to the forward that we dont know, other white house officials that talked to the whistleblower hopefully facts will drive this forward and youll see some consensus. Thats what we have to hope for for the country. Either consensus that he shouldnt be impeached or that he should. I have a feeling Senate Republicans are in a better place to do that than house republicans. Coming up, how will the push for impeachment impact the democratic president ial race first, a part of my interview with irans foreign minister, javad zarif. T as a Small Business owner, the one thing you learn pretty quickly, is that theres a lot to learn. Grow with google is here to help you with turning ideas into action. Putting your business on the map, connecting with customers, and getting the skills to use new tools. 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Of the value youlfind at fidelity. But were also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. From the day youre born we never stop taking care of you. Welcome back. As a candidate donald trump was highly critical of the 2015 Iran Nuclear Deal which was joined by china, france, germany, russia, the uk and the european union. As president he withdrew the United States from the accord in may of last year. So when the u. S. Out of the deal, iran has recently taken steps to enhance its Nuclear Program and the u. S. Has also blamed iran for the attack on saudi arabias main oil facility. Yesterday i sat down with irans foreign minister, javad zarif and asked him about the possibility of ever reaching a new agreement with President Trump. Do you imagine you can actually ever cut an agreement with President Trump . He has made it very difficult because he has said this was an agreement by the previous administration. Notwithstanding the fact that was was a Security Council resolution but simply stating this was an agreement by the previous administration. If i if i were to start negotiating with this administration, it took us last time it took us two years to negotiate. This time it will take us even more because we know how the United States behaves. And let us assume that President Trump is reelected. In two years time there is only three years left of the second term of President Trump. Do we waste two years of negotiations just to benefit wow, you sound like youve made the decision. Youre not talking youre going to wait until theres a new american president , either 2020 or 2024 . No, no, no. Were not waiting for that. Were waiting for this administration to come to its census or the future administration. So you would negotiate with this administration . Of course we would. But not a new deal. They have to show that they respect their signature. Unless they show that they respect their signature, theres no point in negotiating with them because you set a bad precedent. You renegotiate an already negotiated issue with this administration, there is no end to that because tomorrow they can come back to you, even the same administration, and tell you this was not enough. Let me tell you about usmca. Mexico allowed President Trump to renegotiate nafta. They reach usmca but then President Trump said unless you agree to some of my demands on immigration, i will not implement usmca. So there is no end. Somebody starts bullying. And the more you give to that bully, the more it wants. Well, you can my entire interview with foreign minister zarif inclg that cyber war comment that he made where he admits ern and the u. S. Are in an active cyber war, his refusal to deny an iranian role in that attack on saudi oil facilities. Attack on saudi oil facilities. 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Lets cut through all of this. The next four months everybody has the same question politically, which is what is joe biden going to look like at the end of this process. Heres biden dealing with this the first time publicly on friday. My family handled this. But im worried about all the families and all the lives that are at stake in this election because of his failure as a president in terms of the substance of what needs to be done. Yamiche, i have a theory that the president ial race for now basically freezes in place, biden, warren, but ultimately were all trying to figure out how does this impact joe biden . I think there are Political Risks there and political benefits. Ive been talking to sources inside the Biden Campaign and they told me this week they saw their best fundraising numbers ever since the second week of his campaign. You saw Elizabeth Warren starting to rise in iowa. Some polls showing that she was ahead. Now theyre starting to see more interest in their campaign. Im also hearing that they think its ridiculous to compare hunter biden to don junior which is something people are starring to do because republicans are making the case that the president , don junior, has essentially been profiting off of the fact that his father is president. Hunter biden was doing the same thing when his father was Vice President. That said, the Trump Campaign says we also got 5 million 24 hours after nancy pelosi launched this formal impeachment inquiry. So in some ways theres risks everywhere for both parts. Joe biden doesnt want to be talking about Hunter Bidens business dealings in ukraine and President Trump doesnt want to be talking about the favor that he asked on that call. Is this almost like if this damages trump, then the only good news republicans get out of it is to damage biden with it . He is definitely damaged. To your question, yes, that is good news. Joe biden has been devastated by this. In the Washington Post theres a column by me but an indepth report about hunter biden and ukraine, doing what you did with Michael Mcfaul building on the new yorker profile. I believe in one standard. If there was enough evidence to use a fisa warrant against carter page for probable cause for being an agent of a Foreign Government, hunter biden should have been under the same surveil lance from 2014 forward. He was deeply cooperating with interests of people whose interests are not aligned with the u. S. Read the column. I have no idea how that is even remotely relatable, but i will read your column. I would put it under the umbrella, and he wrote a great column. But i would put it under the umbrella of exhaustion. You said a lot of people are exhausted from people from the democrats investigating donald trump. I would just say people are exhausted, a lot of people are exhausted with everything around donald trump. I think that happened before ukraine. I think it started to show up in Donald Trumps numbers. I think this story has put a whole new big pile of exhaustion onto this big, big sort of smoldering whatever it is we have. You can be pro trumps agenda and have trump fatigue, doris. I think thats true. I think the problem for joe biden is what he had going for him was that he was part of the obama administration, scandalfree basically, no drama every day. And he could return to that normalcy in a certain sense. Now hes been made part of this drama. The benefit for him, because i agree with you theres risks and benefits, is not only the sympathy that people might feel but if this really ups his campaign, if he realizes im fighting for my honor and reputation not just because im electable, if he talks to reporters more and does what a person fighting for their life does. Ive got the head of the Nixon Library over here and my favorite historian over there. Should biden give a checkers speech . He should go on 60 minutes with hunter biden by his side and take every question. What do you think of a checkers speech . Quite effective . I think it could be quite effective. He has to deal with it more directly than he did this morning. My apologies for those of you going checkers speech. This goes bck to Richard Nixon and Vice President in 1962. Sometimes we make these references that we dont do enough of, but at that point nixon accused of something and he uses television for the very first time to become a sympathetic figure. I think joe biden could completely benefit from this, but i think that theyre really going to have to want to explain why hunter biden is different from don junior, different from what President Trump think he was doing with his children. I will say really quickly, there was a poll out that npr did, 58 of people said this would have no factor in who they voted for in 2020. If youre a democrat, though, dont you worry about what theyll drop on the campaign in october . Maybe thats what they think. Finally as we say a goodbye, i got a note about hamilton, not the musical, the man. Alexander ham elton wrote that the perils of the impeachment process, warning that each side might judge the case based on preexisting biases. Hamilton wrote and in such cases there will always be the greatest danger that the decision will be regulated more by the comparative strength of parties than by the real demonstration of innocence or guilt. Sound familiar . Good luck, america. Thats all we have for todays history lesson. Thank you for watching. Well be back next week with federalist 66. Because if its sunday, meet the press. Tv just keeps getting better. How you watch it does too. This is xfinity x1. Featuring the Emmy Awardwinning voice remote. Streaming Services Without changing passwords and input. Live sports with realtime stats and scores. 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