Transcripts For KNTV Dateline NBC 20171118

Now almost 30 years later chilling new details. Evidence never broadcast before a letter, hinting at secrets too dark to imagine. This is so outside of the norm something is going on in that house. Did they kill in cold blood or in crippling fear . Oh man it was gutwrenching. I wanted to bust the door down. They spoke the truth about what had happened. Tonight, hear from the brothers themselves. People were afraid of him. Lets go through this bit by bit. There was no way he was gonna let this secret get out. Silence destroyed our whole family. Im lester holt and this is dateline. Heres Keith Morrison with unthinkable the menendez murders. Reporter here it was the shining symbol of their success. Here, finally, an address worthy of their long struggle their amazing rise. Beverly hills, california. Beverly hills emergency. Reporter careful what you wish for. Someone killed my parents reporter 28 years later its still the case that has the power to shock. Its Beverly Hills. Its the movie business. Its kids killing their parents. Reporter what possessed those two handsome young men. Who had been given, everything. A porsche or a rolex. They got pretty much what they wanted. Reporter why did they give back murder. How do you plead . Not guilty. A sensational murder trial. Reporter theirs was the case to usher in walltowall tv coverage. Even before o. J. I was just firing as i went into the room, i just started firing. Reporter the kind of horror you couldnt stop watching. What was in front of you . My parents. Reporter tonight youll hear the real story, told by the investigators. His face was disfigured from the shotgun blast that he took to the back of the head. Reporter by the young men themselves. They werent real. Wax. Reporter the reallife details of the defense that shocked america. Uhm, we would be in the bathroom, and uh, it would, he would put me on my knees. Im lookin to see, is he tellin the truth or not . Reporter tonight, well ask the brother at the center of it all about truth. To this day im still dealing with with the controversy of it, obviously, my own guilt in what in in what happened. Reporter what really happened and why. So to understand, where to begin . How about here illinois. The 1940s. Everybody who knows this story knows her as kitty. But that wasnt really her name, was it . No. It was mary louise. Reporter she was the baby of the family, said her older sister joan vandermolen. It was one of their brothers who came up with the nickname that stuck for life. How did she get to be known as kitty . I think it was when brian went out to get her for dinner one night or something. And he said, here, kitty, kitty, kitty. And she came. Reporter and then, when kitty was three, her dad left the family for another woman. And as that little girl watched her mother struggle, she imagined a way she could do better. Kitty grew up believing that she was gonna marry well, and have household help. Reporter how would she know such a thing . I think this is probably what my mother had maybe wanted for herself and never got. Reporter kitty was pretty. In 1962, she was crowned miss oak lawn. You should be in show business, her mother told her. So kitty studied radio and television at Southern Illinois university. Was that wrapped up in the whole idea of if youre in that field, youre more likely to meet a successful man yes. Absolutely. Reporter in college she met a bundle of ambition named Jose Menendez. He had fled communist cuba at he had fled communist cuba at 16 with bold dreams of striking it big in business. Just the kind of man kitty was searching for. And so they married in 1963. They were stars, in in our family, kitty and jose. Reporter Diane Hernandez was kittys niece and lived with kitty and jose for a few years. Reporter i bet you idolized kitty. Oh i did from the very beginning. And i was known as the k daughter kitty never had. Reporter of course, as the world would come to know, kitty and jose had sons. Lyle and erik. Reporter did they seem to get along . Did they like each other oh yeah. Absolutely. Reporter very close . Yeah. I think erik dependent on lyle a lot. Erik was quite introverted. Reporter Alan Andersen was kittys nephew. He spent a couple summers with the menendez family and bonded with lyle. He was a mischievous boy, to say the least. He liked to smile and laugh and giggle. Oh, he loved to laugh and giggle. Reporter but what the Menendez Brothers did most said alan, was practice. And practice. And practice jose wanted his kids to be the best, and especially in sports, i noticed immediately. Reporter swimming, soccer, tennis. Jose pushed his sons to excel at everything. As his own career skyrocketed. In the 70s, jose was the general manager at hertz, and impressed his sons by bringing the companys famous spokesman home to dinner. Heres oj simpson in that famous tv commercial from the time. And heres oj with jose. They made the newspaper together, posing at an awards ceremony in 1978. Jose was, of course, living the American Dream and he wanted his boys to continue that American Dream that he had set forth for not only himself, for his family. Reporter in 1986, jose took a job with carolco pictures in los angeles. The company that produced megahits like basic instinct and the rambo series. Carolco had just bought a video Distribution Company from a man named noel bloom. And they gave jose the job of running it. So we think 1989 will be a tremendous year, we think we will be very happy with the growth of the company. Reporter that was the year, 1989, when robert rand, then a reporter for the miami herald, went to las vegas to cover a trade show for the home video business. And happened to meet Jose Menendez. Reporter what was your impression of the guy . Talked to him for maybe two or three minutes. Seemed professional, dynamic. Reporter a high powered career. A beautiful family. And finally the one missing piece of joses American Dream the perfect home. Jose moved his family from calabasas, then prekardashian and a relatively unknown enclave outside of los angeles, to a more tony address. Joan was with her sister the day the realtor called kitty. They had accepted joses offer, and kitty, you got your zip code. And that made her so happy. Uhhuh. Absolutely. Reporter 722 north elm drive. A sixbedroom mediterraneanstyle home. Swimming pool. Guest house. Tennis court. Elton john once lived in this very house. So did a saudi prince, and even prince himself. By august 1989, jose had truly made it. Now, to ensure his sons did, too. By then lyle was a student at princeton. Younger brother erik was going to ucla in the fall. So perfect. So why did diane feel this way . I said, well, i know this sounds crazy. But unless i am crazy somebody whos really close to me is gonna die. And its gonna be horrible. Reporter horrible . That it certainly was. Someone killed my parents uh, were they shot . Yes. When we come back something chilling in the den. The first thing i noticed was Jose Menendez seated on the couch. It was grotesque, what happened. Questions from the very beginning. We didnt see any shotgun shells. Reporter what did that say to you . Somebody collected the shotgun shells, somebody that didnt want fingerprints on the shotgun shells. See if cosentyx could make a difference for you cosentyx is proven to help people with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Find clear skin that can last. Dont use if youre allergic to cosentyx. Before starting cosentyx, you should be checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms. Or if you have received a vaccine or plan to. If you have inflammatory bowel disease, tell your doctor if symptoms develop or worsen. Serious allergic reactions may occur. Never give up. See me. See me. Clear skin can last. Dont hold back. Ask your dermatologist if cosentyx can help you find clear skin that lasts. Be ready for thanksgivingekend at kowith an extra 20 off sale get everything to cook the ultimate feast throw pillows for a festive home and soft towels for all your guests this weekend at kohls friends and family sale give joy, get joy at kohls. [announcer] presenting the shark ion flex 2x. The freestanding, cord free vacuum that can live anywhere because it has two rechargeable batteries. That means you can always be charging, even while youre cleaning. With duo clean, multiflex, and powerful suction so you can go, and go, and go again. Welcome to hasslefree runtime with shark. Aswitch to new pantene light as air foam conditioner, full of rich prov nutrients. For 100 conditioning, 0 weight new pantene foam conditioner. Reporter it was august 20th, 1989. Just before midnight, a 911 operator picked up a call from an apparently hysterical si. Yes. What happened . Who was the person that was shot . My mom and my dad. Your mom and dad . My mom and dad. Okay, hold on second. Reporter les zoeller was a detective back then. One of a grand total of two detectives in the Beverly Hills Police Department who worked homicides. How many murders occurred in Beverly Hills in those days . In those days, approximately two a year. Reporter detective zoeller was asleep that august night when his boss called. And he said, come on in, weve had a murder. And i asked him for some information and he gave me the address of 722 north elm. Reporter zoeller drove to the mansion, walked inside. It was eerily quiet. And when i went into the den library, the first thing i noticed was Jose Menendez seated on the couch. He was slumped to one side, his head was to the one side. Reporter it was bad. Very bad. I could immediately tell that his face was disfigured from the shotgun blast that he took to the back of the head. He was wearing shorts. And he had a shotgun blast to his thigh, blood soaked all the way down to the white couch. And then i noticed his wife, kitty, at his feet on the floor reporter she was curled into a fetal position. And, like her husband had been shot many times, several times near her knee. And, most horribly, kitty was shot point blank in the face. Shotgun killings are very messy. And there were brains and blood everywhere. Reporter back then, Pamela Bozanich was an l. A. County prosecutor in the organized crime unit. But nothing prepared her for this. Jose and kitty had been riddled with 15 shots. One image in particular lives with her still. There was a contact wound on Kitty Menendezs face. It blew out her eye. I mean, it was grotesque, what happened to her. Reporter to investigators, it appeared jose and kitty had been relaxing in the den. An empty bowl of cream and berries and eriks ucla paperwork were on the coffee table. The Television Set was on. There was no indication of a breakin. But something did stand out to detective zoeller. We didnt see any shotgun shells. What did that say to you . Somebody collected the shotgun shells. But who does a thing like that, if theyve got a messy crime scene of that sort . Somebody that didnt want fingerprints on the shotgun shells, is the only thing i could think of. Reporter while investigators examined the crime scene, Lyle Menendez, then 21, and erik, 18, went to the station to speak to police. The brothers said they were in and out throughout the day. And then as evening approached, they decided that they wanted to go to the movies. They wanted to see a james bond movie. But it was sold out. So they saw the batman movie, which they had both seen before. So they decided to see that again. Curious. Reporter after the movie, they told detectives, theyd planned to meet a friend for a drink at the cheesecake factory, but they had to go back to the house to pick up eriks fake i. D. And when they walked in, they said, they saw a haze in the air, smelled gun powder smoke, went into the den, and then dialed 911. Someone killed my parents reporter the news spread quickly. I got a phone call from my brother. And i remember putting the phone down on the table. And Walking Around the house screaming. Reporter reporter robert rands phone also rang. It was a friend who had attended the las vegas trade show with him 10 days earlier. The friend had said, hey, you remember that guy, Jose Menendez . You know, that you met briefly last week . And i said, sure. And he said, well, he and his wife were blown away last night in Beverly Hills. Reporter now that, thought rand, was a story tailor made for the Miami Community he was writing for. A rags to riches story, capped by murder. He worked the phones and soon met up with joses sister who told him you know, the family was so close. They were loving. They did everything together. She said, you have to interview erik and lyle. And i said, of course i wanna interview erik and lyle. Reporter as he would find, getting to the brothers was not so easy. But then, theyd just lost their parents. Lyle and Erik Menendez were the grieving sons. Reporter Alan Abrahamson is a journalism professor at usc. Back in 1989, he was a reporter for the la times. Nobody quite knew who had who had killed the parents. Was it because of joses position in business . Had he been taken out by the mob . Reporter after all, both jose and kitty had been shot in the knees. A mafia signature, perhaps . And then there was the company jose was running. Live entertainment distributed all kinds of movies, including childrens movies. But it got its start in porn. A lot of pornography is organized crime backed. cause its a great way to make a lotta money in a industry thats not, you know, very well regarded. And there was actually a homicide in the valley a few weeks before they were murdered. And jose mentioned to his sons, you know, this is what happens. This guy was into the pornography business. And he was murdered. Reporter plus, jose was known to be aggressive when it came to business. And investigators found two rifles in his bedroom. Was jose worried someone might come after him . Reporter could lyle and erik be next . The brothers hired bodyguards. And in an interview, Erik Menendez voiced his suspicion. Uh, noel bloom sounds like the most logical possibility. If he did kill them, i know they hated each other. Reporter noel bloom. The founder of the company jose was running and an unapologetic distributor of adult entertainment. The menendez boys were not alone in their suspicion about noel bloom. Reporter coming up rivals at the office. Was that a motive for murder . You didnt kill Jose Menendez . Absolutely not. Reporter noel bloom speaks. Then and now. Were you sorta daybyday waiting to be taken and put in handcuffs . Yes. Reporter when dateline continues. Visible results or your money back olay. Ageless there is not a friend that i have that will not own this product this is the best christmas ever. Colonel ho ho ho and honey, the colonel didnt leave us out. Its a 20 family fill up its a great homecooked meal that we dont have to home cook. Colonel its Finger Lickin good. Fortyeight hours of protection. I dont have to reapply this, not once. Its really soft and almost velvety as you put it on. Thats like really soft. Try dove advanced care for softer, smoother underarms. Weaving your own shoes. By out of flax. Or simply adjust your thermostat. Do your thing, with Energy Upgrade california. Hi, were alaska airlines. But were all over california. So you can power lunch in la. 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He was a true cornerstone of this company, which i love. Reporter and joses Memorial Service was held at the Directors Guild of america headquarters on sunset boulevard. All of which might have led people to believe he was a beloved hollywood insider. But the reality was Jose Menendez was really not known in the Hollywood Community at all. And most of the people at this memorial probably had never heard of him. Reporter lyle and erik arrived late to the service in a chauffeured limousine. Theyd spent the night before in the ultra chic hotel belair. Howd theyd behave when they were there . Lyle menendez was very cool, calm and collected. Reporter kittys sister joan was at the memorial too and heard something disturbing about jose. Several men that worked with jose talked to me at that Memorial Service and told me how he loved to humiliate other men. Pretty shocking thing to hear at somebodys Memorial Service, isnt it . Uhhuh. Yeah. Not very memorial. Reporter so, jose had made enemies. The brothers confirmed it. And knew where to point the finger. They indicated that their father was involved in in some shady business contacts. And one in particular was a gentleman by the name of noel bloom reporter that name again, noel bloom had founded the company that became known as Live Entertainment and then wound up working uncomfortably with jose. They bickered about a lotta things . Well, mostly it was because of the pornography. Jose didnt like that at all. Did it seem to you that there was a motive there . Possible. Reporter we found this tape of bloom deep in the nbc archives. You didnt kill Jose Menendez . Absolutely not. Reporter and wondered what he had to say today. What are you doin with yourself now . Well, im retired. Kinda like forced retirement oh, but your resume . Your resume is special my resume could scare people. Reporter noel bloom, known for years to Law Enforcement authorities as a kingpin in the porn trade with alleged ties to east coast mobsters. Why would they say you were involved with organized crime . Because people had a perception that people in the adult business were in organized crime, which is totally not true. At least i had i wasnt were some of the people who you associated with members there was a couple of Companies Back in new york that i believe was. Reporter in the 1970s bloom was one of the biggest porn producers and distributors in the country with titles like swedish erotica. Then he made an unlikely turn to distributing childrens programming care bears, for example. Along the way, you encountered this guy, Jose Menendez . Unfortunately. What was he like in the office . Jose could be very sweet. Smile at you. Even charming. Uhhuh . But he was very ruthless. He would scream at people. If he fired somebody in his office and fired em, even though he had no business doing so you would hear him laughing like it was a big joke. Reporter jose fought with his own family, too, said noel bloom. I i met kitty several times. She was sometimes goin to the into his office, and you know, yellin and screamin and hollering. I mean, really loud. Oh, so theyd argue a lot . Oh, yeah. A lot. And i think a lot of it was about the kids. What was your impression of them . They were kinda quiet. They werent that friendly, but it seemed like they were a bit troubled. And you know, i know they were afraid of him. Reporter afraid of their father, jose. I saw him just stare them down a couple of times reporter but after jose was murdered, lyle and erik seemed to be afraid of noel bloom. They told police they thought bloom may have killed their parents and might want to kill them, too. Bloom had been arrested before on obscenity charges, but never convicted. Still, with the brothers public accusations. He was nervous. Were you sorta daybyday waiting for somebody to call you oh, yes be taken and put in handcuffs and yes. Reporter oh, the cops would be calling and the investigation would take a turn one that no one expected. Coming up. Any questions about the case. And about the grieving sons. Lyle, the way he was spending money was very strange. You begin to see a pattern hea here and begin to think of greed. Ity to fight infections, ity to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma and other cancers have happened. Dont start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. Tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. Your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. Tell your doctor if you were in a region where fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. Needles. A must for vinyl. But for you, one pill a day may provide symptom relief. Ask your doctor about xeljanz xr. An unjection™. So dad slayed the problem with puffs plus lotion, instead. With lotion to soothe and softness to please. A nose in need deserves puffs, indeed. 100 steam peeled. Vine to can within 12 hours. We do things our way, so you can do things your way. Hunts. Grow confident. Eve i drop what i do me you are my best friend and weve got some things to do do you wanna, do you wanna, do you wanna do you wanna, do you wanna, do you wanna yeaheaeaeah he was very cooperative. We couldnt determine that he had a motive at all. Reporter so noel bloom was no longer a suspect. And the rumored mafia connection to the crime . Not a chance, said prosecutor pam bozanich. The number of shots would tell you that it wasnt a organized crime hit. Reporter why do you say that . Because they were torn apart. If if you think about what the media portrays or or hollywood portrays as a mob hit, it would be. Reporter its just a little hole in the back of the head . Like, a. 22 or a. 38 to the back of the head. Reporter but the kneecappings, the missing shell casings to investigators those were signs it was staged to look like a mob hit. Hours after the murders, detective zoeller looked at the scene, puzzled. And right around that time, lyle showed up at the house. He said, we wanna get our tennis equipment. And i said, well, where is that . He said, its in the library where my parents were murdered. Reporter what was their demeanor . He was matter of fact and didnt seem very upset to me. Reporter then zoeller learned something very odd. Lyle and erik went to the bank days after the murders, looking for joses safety deposit box, trying to find the family will. Did that surprise you, that they would do it so soon . Oh, definitely. Reporter so why would the brothers worry about the will . Zoeller learned that jose had threatened to disinherit them. Lyle had been caught cheating at princeton. Erik had fought with his father over tennis. But there was a bigger issue, too. Well, in the first house they took the whole safe. The second house, they got into the safe. Reporter lyle and erik had burglarized the homes of their friends wealthy parents. One of the burglaries was in the exclusive community of hidden hills. Had you ever heard of such a thing before . No. It was just because we could do it. Look what we can do. Reporter at the time, jose hired a prominent criminal attorney who arranged for the younger brother, erik, to take the fall. Because he was a minor, knowing that erik probably wouldnt get any jail time. And part of the disposition was that he contact a therapist. In comes jerry oziel. Reporter dr. Jerome oziel, youll want to remember that name. A Beverly Hills psychologist who specialized in phobias and sex therapy so, therapy and no jail time for the burglaries. But were they written out of the will . They finally did get hold of it. And discovered jose hadnt disinherited them after all. So now they stood to inherit the familys 14 Million Dollar estate. And what the brothers did after the murders shocked the whole country. They were just spending, spending, spending. Reporter three rolex watches. A private tennis coach for erik a porsche lyle even bought a chicken wings restaurant. I love to shop. But i think that i might even wait a day or two. Reporter lyle went to visit his cousin alan in chicago after the murders. He ordered some of the most expensive shirts ive ever seen in my life. He ordered some jewelry, ordered these shoes these expensive shoes. And i was like, wow. The way he was spending money, for me, was very strange. Reporter but to other relatives, the spending was just lyle and erik doing what they always did. Lyle was grieving, said cousin diane. People would ask, you know . People were like, whats he doing . And i would defend him and say, well, everybody reacts differently when somebody dies. This is just his way of coping i guess. Reporter their casual behavior after the murders, the hunt for the will, the spending spree, none of it was criminal. But it certainly caught the attention of the prosecutor. You begin to see a pattern here and you begin to think of greed. Reporter but to police, lyle and erik kept repeating the same story they told the cops the night of the murders. They had no idea what happened. Reporter were they believable in those conversations that you recall . Yes. Reporter so they didnt seem to be lying or obfuscating or no. They answered our questions willingly. Reporter so maybe they were spoiled, and selfcentered. But, it was a long way from that to killing their parents. Except another interview was coming, one that would reveal so much more. Coming up. Ive never seen my dad helpless. Reporter an emotional Erick Menendez speaks out about his father, his family and a killer script. That story was about a young man who murders his parents and inherits 157 Million Dollars. They thought about the perfect crime. And its looking like a perfect crime to me reporter when dateline continues. And open up a world of possibilities. Save 20 for the holidays at ancestrydna. Com. Precisely shaped. Totally natural. Brow precise micro pencil from Maybelline New York, americas 1 brow brand. Just fill and blend for precise, natural brows. Maybellines brow precise micro pencil. Make it happen. Maybelline new york and take an extra 20 off kend at kohls Friends Family sale give joy with a star wars playset or the batcave give joy with mr. Potato head or a playdoh playset this weekend at kohls friends and family sale give joy, get joy at kohls. Reporter reporter robert rand had been working the menendez story hard. And a young woman in her twenties answered the door and she said, oh erik and lyle are out playing tennis. Th theyll be back at some point. Reporter the woman invited rand in to tour the house. And immediately in front of me is the room. The room where jose and Kitty Menendez were killed. And i ha i had a chill up my spine. I felt creeped out. Reporter he waited. They arrived, eventually. Erik and lyle came bouncing in the house wearing tennis whites and looking tan. And they were laughing and joking. And im as reporter as if nothing had happened. As if nothing had happened. And im kind of torn up inside. Im just thinking to myself, i wouldnt be anywhere near this house if my parents had been killed here. Reporter rand pulled out his tape recorder and notepad, but lyle stopped him. Lyle menendez said, hang on, he said, we dont wanna do the interview today. Wed just like to meet you and get to know you. Reporter the brothers had flaked on rand before. He was annoyed, but obliged. They chatted informally. And made plans to meet later that weekend for an official interview. But when rand arrived lyle had left for new york on a redeye the night before. He had a problem with his chicken wing restaurant in princeton. Reporter erik, however, was home. And this time he was willing to talk. Erik was emotionally appropriate. He he would cry at times. And he was telling really lovely stories about how wonderful his parents were. Just an incredible man. And uh, people were afraid of him. People were afraid of him because they would walk in the room and know that this man was more powerful. This man was more intelligent reporter erik said his father wanted to get into politics. He was going to become senator of florida, and then he was gonna spend his life making cuba a territory of the United States. Reporter now, with his fathers death, erik said he and his brother wanted to fulfill his fathers dream. I wanna become senator of florida and my my brother wants to become president of the United States. Reporter then the mood shifted and erik described what he saw when he walked into the family den on august 20th. They werent real. No. They wax they looked like wax. Its something that ive never seen my dad helpless. You know, i think that possibly if lyle and i wouldve been home, if we wouldve been able to do something about it maybe uh, maybe my dad would be alive. I definitely would give my life for my dads. Reporter and, this was curious, erik also told rand about a screenplay he had written called friends. That story was about a young man who murders his parents and inherits 157 million. Reporter fancy that. Erik wrote the screenplay with a close friend of his named craig cignarelli. When detective zoeller interviewed craig, he learned that craig and erik often fantasized about committing the perfect crime. Which, in their screenplay, became the story of a man killing his parents and evading police. They thought about the perfect crime. And here their parents are murdered. We dont have a suspect yet. Its looking like a perfect crime to me, at that point. Reporter zoeller began to wonder if eriks fantasy could be playing out in reality. And then craig told zoeller about his visit to the menendez house after the murders. Erik said, do you wanna know what happened . And he described shooting the parents. And then he summed it all by saying, it could happen. And craig thought about it. And he says, well, is he saying thats what he thinks happened here at the house . Or did they actually commit the crime . Reporter strange. As was the story the brothers told about discovering their parents bodies. The brothers said they saw this haze in the air and some smoke that they smelled. Reporter like gunpowder smoke or gunpowder smoke. But i mean, that dissipates pretty darned quick. Well, the officers got there right after they did. And they didnt smell anything. Reporter the gunpowder smoke, and fantasizing about the perfect crime, and the screenplay, and even what might be called a confession. It all led detective zoeller to start thinking the unthinkable, that the brothers had murdered their mom and dad. And he wondered, would erik tell the story of the shooting to craig again . This time on tape. They decided to wire up craig and go to this restaurant. Reporter but this time, erik wasnt at all talkative. Erik didnt admit anything. But i think his conscience said, you better not talk too much about this. Reporter not that day, anyway. And not to craig cignarelli. But erik did talk, eventually. And what he said would change everything. Reporter coming up lyle burst into the room. She heard him say why did you tell him . reporter the explosive secret, hidden until now. Reporter could you believe it . No. No it was absolutely devastating, shocking, just beyond words. Here, blow. Blow on it. You see it, right . Is there a draft in here . Im telling you, its so easy to get Home Insurance on progressive. Com. Progressive cant save you from becoming your parents. But we can save you money when you bundle home and auto. 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As you do. Le vian at jared. Only jared has more exclusive le vian pieces. Than any other Jewelry Store in the world. And now, visit jared. Com. For onehundred dollars off any le vian purchase. The one gift as as unique as she is. Thats why he went to jared. Reporter detective les zoeller had a very disturbing suspicion. That lyle and Erik Menendez had particular que dijiste fueron well, when we got a call from Judalon Smyth. Reporter a name hed never heard before. What did she have to tell you . Her whole purpose was to talk about this doctor. And how he was her therapist. And he was having an affair with her. Reporter not relevant information to a homicide detective. But this was what was his first name, dr dr. Jerry oziel. Reporter doctor oziel, the psychologist erik was sent to after those burglaries. Two months after the murders, Judalon Smyth said she was with dr. Oziel when Erik Menendez called to schedule an emergency session. Smyth wouldnt talk to us for this report, but she did back then. And heres what she told us dr. Oziel said after getting that call. Well all of a sudden hes saying, you know, i hope im not going to hear what i think im going to hear. Reporter smyth told zoeller that dr. Oziel was worried about what might happen at the session. And so he asked her to stay in the waiting room of his office while he met with erik on october 31st, 1989. Reporter she also told zoeller that from the waiting room, she overheard erik tell dr. Oziel the very thing investigators had suspected for months, but couldnt prove. Erik said that they shot their parents. And dr. Oziel immediately says, we need to call your brother and have him come over here right away. Reporter Lyle Menendez, who had been at the elm drive home, passing out candy to trickortreaters, rushed over to dr. Oziels office. And lyle burst into the room. Reporter Judalon Smyth told zoeller she heard lyle confront his brother. And she heard him say, why did you tell him . Were gonna have to kill him now. Seriously . Yes. And erik said, i cant kill anymore. And he burst in tears and left. Well, lyle and dr. Oziel, more or less, followed him. And lyle got to the elevator. And dr. Oziel said, am i in danger . And lyle said, thats all i can tell you is have a good life, dr. Oziel. And it freaked him out. Reporter what followed was a strange and nervous dance, oziel told lyle and erik to come back for follow up therapy sessions. The brothers, afraid oziel might go to police, agreed. During one of those sessions, they both confessed to killing their parents. And oziel recorded the conversation. Judalon smyth learned about the recording and told detectives, who promptly seized the tape. Just one problem, they werent allowed to listen to it because of doctor patient privilege. How frustrating was that . Well, it was very frustrating. Yeah, a good piece of evidence and i couldnt even listen to it. Reporter even though investigators didnt know whether theyd ever get to play that tape in court, they thought they had enough evidence to arrest the brothers. It was march 8th, 1990. Detectives arrested Joseph Lyle Menendez for the august murders of his mother and father. Reporter erik was playing a tennis tournament in israel at the time. Erik menendez is being sought by detectives of this department. Reporter he surrendered to police three days later. Could you believe it . No. No. It was absolutely devastating, shocking, just beyond words. Reporter former l. A. Times reporter Alan Abrahamson. Who would imagine that these two young men of privilege, position and powertobe could could kill their parents. Thats thats the kinda stuff that shakespeare wrote about. Reporter and yet, it seemed thats exactly what happened. A few weeks after the arrests, detective zoeller confirmed another tip Judalon Smyth gave them. Judalon said that the guns were purchased at a gun store in san diego. I was lookin through gun records. And i said, this is it. Reporter the name on the sale was an old friend of lyles from princeton. But the friend was not even in california when the guns were purchased. And he was missing his i. D. We learned later that lyle had taken the wallet. Reporter it seemed like overwhelming evidence that lyle and erik killed their parents. But their story of why they did it, that would leave the family and the rest of america, speechless. Coming up watching her in court was like watching great theatre. Reporter the battle begins with a powerful new ally standing by the brothers. How does he walk into a room with a shotgun, this kid . It doesnt add up. I mean, im totally, totally puzzled. Reporter when dateline continues. 60 million meals thats so much food. Petsmart for the love of pets. Breathe freely fast wmy congestions gone. I can breathe again i can breathe again vicks sinex. Breathe on. As our ocean spray cranberries, which is why were declaring it the unofficial official fruit of the holidays. The figs gonna be so bummed. [ chuckles ] for holiday tips and recipes, go to oceanspray. Com. The figs gonna be so bummed. [ chuckles ] feel that tingle of a cold sore only abreva can heal it in as little as two and a half days when used at the first sign. Abreva starts to work immediately to block the virus and protect healthy cells. Abreva acts on it. So you can too. Lyle and Erik Menendez are under arrest for the murders of their parents in the family mansion in Beverly Hills. It was grotesque. What happened . Blood soaked. I had a chill up my spine. Could you believe it . No, no. It was absolutely devastating. Just beyond words. Reporter the question now. What drove them to kill . How does he walk into a room with a shotgun . This kid. I mean, im totally, totally puzzled. Reporter a dark secret was about to come to light. I just told him that i didnt want to do this. Something horrible is going on in the family. Oh, man, it was gutwrenching. I wanted to bust a door down and say, whats going on here . Here again, Keith Morrison. Reporter the news rocketed around the country much of the world. The sons themselves shotgunned their own parents in their own home. Two rich kids from Beverly Hills, coddled, spoiled, greedy, had murdered their own parents in cold blood. Actually planned it. Tried to make it look like a mob hit. Used stolen i. D. To buy the guns. Tried to get away with it. And after, went on a lavish nationwide spending spree. Public judgement came harsh and fast. How do you plea . Not guilty. They were smirking. They were smug. People were not predisposed to think kindly of erik and Lyle Menendez. Reporter media feasted on the story of the rich brothers who killed their parents for the 14 million estate. Hard to overstate the publics disgust with those young men. But on the other side of the country, in an upscale new jersey town, just a few miles from princeton, people began comparing memories. Their home at the time was a tudorstyle home. It was on a lake. Reporter this is the home where lyle and erik grew up. Where bill kurtain was a young tennis coach when he met Jose Menendez and was certainly impressed. There were two clear sides of him. One was the very friendly, outgoing, joking person. The flip side was how driven and controlling he was. Reporter jose engaged bill to teach his son, lyle, and then watched the lessons, but didnt just watch. He would physically come onto the tennis court and start giving instruction to lyle while i was still there. That was very, very strange. Very uncomfortable. Reporter only much later did bill learn jose had hired several coaches for lyle, that the 10yearold was working hours every day to learn tennis. He was incredibly quiet, especially when jose was present. Reporter neighborhood memories about a successful but slightly imposing family. Everyone seemed to look up to them, but not draw closer to them. Reporter alicia hercz was a friend and neighbor of the menendez family. The minute they would come into a room, they took the air out somehow. Wow. And we were all, you know, very, very careful. Reporter and that menendez house . It was like it was covered with a shield, like that was impenetrable. Reporter thing was, alicia wasnt just a neighbor. She was lyles ninth grade spanish teacher at the exclusive princeton day school. Was he a good student . He tried to be. But he was not particularly talented at the language. Reporter once she caught lyle cheating, and she said erik cheated too. I think teachers understood deep down inside what they were going through. Reporter that they were being pressured. Yes. Reporter strenuously from their parents to do well. To perform. Right. Reporter and to alicia, it seemed to be taking a toll on lyle. Alicia remembers, more than once, seeing lyle outside her office. Staring blankly. I wish to this day that i had gotten out and said, please come in. Please come in. Reporter did you talk to kitty or jose about this . Oh, no. I didnt reveal anything to them. No. And and not anything that could get them in trouble. Reporter like many others, said alicia, she was careful around kitty and jose. But there was one episode she found too disturbing to ignore. A dinner party at the menendez home. Jose told his guests hed brought back a vhs tape from a trip to brazil. And i have to show you guys this. Because its so unique. And so he puts it in. And i dont remember the name. Reporter she said the film showed adults engaging in sex acts in front of children. And we saw a few seconds of it, a few minutes. And we made excuses. A lot of us stood up and said, we have to leave. We couldnt stand to see it, to watch it. Reporter but jose found this engaging. Oh, hysterically funny. Reporter these stories of the menendez family had been buried for years, until the sons were charged with murder. And she signed on to defend them. Veteran criminal defense attorney Leslie Abramson, known for her brash style in the courtroom, and with the press. You want that . Thats what you get today. Reporter reporter robert rand, now writing a book on the menendez case, recalls the attorneys passionate devotion to her clients. Ive never seen anybody with the power of Leslie Abramson. Watching her in court was like watching great theater. Reporter in this old interview from our archives, Leslie Abramson described how her Defense Strategy began to take shape. Im hearing a lot of very negative and at least heavily psychologically abusive things, but its not answering whats wrong with this kid, cause hes incredibly sweet. How does he walk into a room with a shotgun, this kid . And it doesnt add up. I mean, im totally, totally puzzled. And thats when i bring in vicary. Reporter dr. William vicary, a forensic psychiatrist and graduate of harvard law school, agreed to meet with the brothers in jail. He knew going in, police believed lyle and erik killed their parents for money. But based upon the dozens of parricide cases that i had worked on in the past, thats the exception. Thats not the rule. The rule is that something horrible is going on in the family. Reporter and something was going on in the menendez family. Something very secret. But what was it . Reporter coming up, new evidence seen on television for the first time. A letter from lyle to erik, hinting at the horrors in that house. The screams. Oh, man, it was gutwrenching. Plus, it has a fortifying formula to protect your enamel. Now i get a whiter smile and healthy teeth, all in one. The 3d white collection from crest. Healthy, beautiful smiles for life. Giveits time to spend your kohls cash treat yourself to an early gift or spend your kohls cash on more presents for them you can use your kohls cash on anything even our biggest brands give joy, get joy at kohls. Be sensational lash sensational full fan effect mascara from Maybelline New York. Our unique fanning brush reveals layers of lashes for the sensational fullfan effect. Lash sensational mascara. Make it happen Maybelline New York reporter lyle and Erik Menendez, the boys from Beverly Hills, sat in jail, charged with the shotgun murders of their and the great wheels of justice ground slowly. The main issue was the jerome oziel confession tape admissible, or should doctorpatient privilege keep it out . The arguing went all the way to californias highest court. We sat around for a couple years waiting for the Supreme Court to rule. Reporter during which the Menendez Brothers resided at the mens central jail. Where, soon after their arrest, lyle slipped his brother a letter. Dateline obtained a copy. Its never been broadcast before. In it, lyle wrote about their father, and the murders. He bore two brilliant children only two, they carry his name and his pride. We did not do anything for the money. He went on we alone know the truth. We alone know the secrets of our families past. I do not look forward to broadcasting them around the country. I pray that it never has to happen. Reporter secrets at this point, even attorney Leslie Abramson knew, none of them. Lyle and erik revealed, nothing. Not to abramson, and not to the forensic psychiatrist she hired, william vicary. What struck me in that initial interview was how together the older brother, lyle, was. I mean, he was articulate. He made good eye contact. He had very thoughtful, organized answers. Reporter erik, on the other hand, seemed broken. He very rarely made eye contact. He was biting his fingernails. So i was thinking in my head, boy, i sure hope i get to work with the older brother and not the younger brother. Because this is gonna be a piece of cake with the older brother. How wrong he was. After a few sessions with lyle, dr. Vicary hit a wall. And moved on to erik, who, month after month, seemed to stick to a kind of, script. About his wonderful father, his loving family. And the minute something would leak out about maybe things werent so wonderful in the family, he would start crying. And he would kind of dissolve. And whimper. And he just wouldnt go any further. Reporter vicary put erik on antidepressants and slowly, a trust began to form. As the months rolled by, i got more and more pieces of information. And it got worse and worse and worse as to what was going on in his family. Until finally the dam broke. Reporter erik and lyles cousin Alan Andersen had lived with the menendez family, and knew the public didnt understand. They just knew that, okay, we got these rich kids, boom, shot their parents. Now theyre think theyre multimillionaires, well, thats not the case, reporter alan had begun thinking back to some very disturbing things he had witnessed at the menendez house, as had cousin Diane Hernandez. He would take their heads and push them underwater until they started panicking and needed up he would let them up again. Reporter joses way of teaching his then quite young boys to swim. What did kitty seem to think about it . I mean if jose did it or said it there was no questioning it. Absolutely none. Reporter not by the boys. Not by kitty. She became like his righthand man in enforcing things. Reporter including what diane and alan came to know as the single most important rule in the menendez house. You cannot go down the hall when jose is with his kids. Kitty didnt go down the hall either. No. No. Uhuh. Reporter but they did, hear things. Ive heard them being whipped, oh man, it was gut wrenchin. The screams and the, daddy, dont hit me. Daddy, dont you know, that kinda stuff. Reporter a disturbing series of stories, that to the defense, began to explain what those young men did to their parents. But how do you get from disturbing stories to a double murder . The brothers lawyers began to connect the dots. Their defense would be unique. And daring. Coming up the prosecution versus the defense these are smart, strong women . Definitely. Engaged against each other. Yes. The fireworks were about to begin. I felt that the brothers were evil, but not as bad as she was when dateline continues. My name is jamir dixon and im a locate and Mark Fieldman for pg e. Most people in the community recognize the blue trucks as pg e. My truck is something new. Its an 811 truck. When you call 811, i come out to your house and i mark out our gas lines and our electric lines to make sure that you dont hit them when youre digging. 811 is a free service. Im passionate about it because every time i go on the street i think about my own kids. Theyre the reason that i want to protect our community and our environment, and if me driving a that truck means that somebody gets to go home safer, then ill drive it every day of the week. Together, were building a better california. Grown right here in california, with absolutely no antibiotics ever. A better way to grow, a better way to eat. And it starts with foster farms simply raised chicken. California grown with no antibiotics ever. Palo alto police are preparing for the big game against cal tomorrow. Expect heavy traffic on embarcadero, el camino and sand hill. Follow us on twitter for the latest. And on our website fresh snow in the sierra just in time for the holiday week. Many ski resorts are opening this weekend. Caltrans is monitoring the conditions on 80. Reporter even before the Menendez Brothers went on trial, the defense scored a big victory. The california Supreme Court ruled that the confession tape made by dr. Oziel could not be presented as evidence. Of course, the defense had already conceded that lyle and erik killed their parents. A sensational murder trial opened today in california. The defendants, two brothers. The victims, their parents. Reporter nearly four years after the murders. July, 1993. If convicted here, lyle and erik could face the death penalty. Their judge was stanley weisberg. Who had already presided over high profile cases, notably the rodney king beating case, whose result sparked the l. A. Riots. Judge weisberg ruled that each brother would have his own jury. And the Electronic Media that wants access to this court room. Reporter he allowed cameras in the courtroom. The idea that there was a camera in a courtroom in california was so new, so novel. Reporter reporter Alan Abrahamson, once an attorney himself, covered the trial for the la times. You werent just playing to the jury. You were playing to all of america. Reporter the judges decision turned a local l. A. Story into an international sensation. Reporter robert rand was there too, of course. Ive written articles for paris match, the guardian in london, gratzie in italy, and sold articles in japan and australia. Reporter how big was it . The menendez trial was the case that put an entire network, court tv, on the broadcast landscape. Reporter prosecutor pam bozanich knew all of america was watching her every move. How did you feel as you prepared to make your Opening Statement . As i walked down the hallway, all the cameras were there. And, you know, i just threw up. cause i thought, oh, god. You know, this is really stressful. So reporter whats more, prosecutor bozanich was going up against two fierce opponents. Leslie abramson defending erik. And jill lansing defending lyle. These are three very smart, strong women . Definitely. Engaged against each other over these boys . Yes. I say boys. But they werent really boys no, they were they . Werent boys at all. In fact, thats what the defense wanted everybody to hear, these boys. Poor boys . And, these poor boys, these orphans. Reporter orphans, an impression the defense tried to play up. Leslie abramson wrapped her arms around their shoulders. Had them trade their dapper suits for preppy sweaters. Everything that jill lansing and Leslie Abramson did was deliberate and calculated. Reporter prosecutor bozanich steeled herself, determined not to let the optics distract the juries. Based upon this evidence, it will become apparent that this murder was unlawful, unjustified, and wholly premeditated. In basic english, the prosecutions case was this. Just the facts, maam. Reporter fact number one. Lyle and erik driving down to san diego, two days before the murders, to buy shotguns and with a stolen i. D. Why are you using the fake i. D. . Because you know youre gonna be using the gun to do something you shouldnt be doing. That is evidence of intent. Reporter after the murders, the prosecution showed the brothers lied to the police for months, starting from the very moment lyle called 911. Someone killed my parents reporter and they did it all for the family fortune, the state said. Remember, lyle and erik had searched for the will just days after their parents murders. And went on a lavish, multistate spending spree. They were very aggressive about spending money as soon as possible. Which i thought was very strange. Reporter it was pretty obvious, said the prosecutor. First degree murder, and they did it for the money. At the end of the prosecution case, i was, like, okay, these these two brothers are so guilty, its not even funny. But then there was her. Ms. Abramson for the defense. Thank you, your honor. We had a joke. The investigator, myself and my codef cocounsel, lester. The joke was, you have a gun, you have two bullets, you go in the courtroom. Who do you shoot . Okay, so both the guys say they would shoot lyle and erik. And i my thing was, im gonna shoot leslie twice. I felt that the brothers were evil, but not as bad as she was. Reporter abramson had a reputation for doing whatever it took. You guys havent been fair to these boys and youre not fair to them now. Reporter and she had an unusual strategy for defending the brothers. A law known as imperfect selfdefense. That is to say under all the circumstances, it was reasonable to the person to think that they were acting in selfdefense. But the reality is that that wasnt the case at all. Reporter in other words, an honest, but unreasonable belief that ones life is in danger. The defense argued that the brothers werent spoiled. They were damaged. Subject to years of abuse that made the decision to kill their parents seem to them like an act of selfdefense against imminent danger. If the jury agreed, the Menendez Brothers would get manslaughter instead of murder. Our witnesses will paint a portrait of jose and Mary Louise Menendez as parents that will make understandable to you how they could have died at the hands of their children, what they did to their children to bring this about. The parents were as much on trial as lyle and Erik Menendez were on trial. And while the prosecution tried to stick to a just the facts, maam narrative, the Defense Strategy was emotion, emotion, emotion, emotion. Reporter the defense called teachers, coaches, and family members to testify about emotional and physical abuse. One of them was cousin alan. And would you see bruises on the boys after that . Yes, yes above their above their thigh area, where a belt would be hit. Reporter and then, cousin diane took the stand. And here came the most explosive issue of the trial. Diane testified that the abuse jose inflicted on his sons was jose inflicted on, but sexual. He and his dad had been touching each other and he indicated it was in his genital area. Reporter and diane told us she observed even more. Three of them would take showers together. Lyle was 15 and erik was 12. Reporter prosecutor bozanich was, to say the least, skeptical. If my daughter needed me to lie for her, id lie for her. If it was a life and death thing, of course, you would. If its your cousin that you grew up with, of course you would. And youre pretty sure that they were doing that . Im positive. Reporter one reason why. A relative came to me and said that she felt that the defense was made up, that she confronted lyle about it. And he said to her, thats the way its gonna be. Reporter so we had to ask. Did the brothers ask you to lie for them . No. Did they ask you to sort of, like, shade things or tell certain stories and not other stories or anything like that . Uhuh. Reporter the defense contended the abuse was real, went on for years. And finally they came to believe that something terrible was about to break loose. Reporter specifically, that their parents were going to kill them if they didnt kill their parents first. Mental Health Experts testified and said that was understandable. erik and Lyle Menendez purchased the shotguns for their own protection. Reporter it was a high stakes defense. And by far the most important witnesses, would be the brothers themselves. Would the jury believe them . Would america . Coming up my dad had been molesting me. I just told him that i didnt want to do this, and that it hurt me. Reporter shocking then, chilling even now. Was it the truth . Ah [scream] [screaming] ah, my phone. Youve got to send me that pic. Make walmart your first and only stop. Black friday. Thanksgiving 6pm. Get the app for a sneak peek at the deals. Youre so cold, come in whats wrong . Its dry. Your scalp . Mine gets dry in the winter too. Try head and shoulders dry scalp care it nourishes the scalp and. Keeps you up to 100 flake free head and shoulders dry scalp care before i hadburning,oting, pinsandneedles of diabetic nerve pain, these feet. Grew into a freewheeling kid. Loved every step of fatherhood. And made old cars good as new. But i couldnt bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. So i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. Nerve damage from diabetes causes diabetic nerve pain. Lyrica is fda approved to treat this pain, from moderate to even severe diabetic nerve pain. Lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. Tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling or blurry vision. Common side effects dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, swelling of hands, legs, and feet. Dont drink alcohol while taking lyrica. Dont drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. Those whove had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. Now i have less diabetic nerve pain. And i love smoothing the road ahead for others. Ask your doctor about lyrica. Reporter according to Leslie Abramson there was only one relevant question to consider in the menendez murders. Why did these killings occur . Reporter a question the brothers believed they could answer best. No one had ever seen televised testimony like this before. Say your full name and spell your last name. | Joseph Lyle Menendez. Reporter the brothers testified in graphic, emotional terms about what they said were the darkest secrets of their family. Between the ages of six and eight, did your father have sexual contact with you . Yes. We would be in the bathroom, and uh, it would, he would put me on my knees, and have oral sex with him. Did you want to do this . At some point, did he do some other things to you . It hed rape me. Did you ask him not to . Yes. I just told him that i didnt want to do this, and that it hurt me, and he said that he didnt mean to hurt me, and he loved me. What did he tell you about telling people . He just said that it was our secret, that bad things would happen to me if i told anybody. Reporter lyle testified his father stopped abusing him when he turned eight. He said for years he had no idea his brother was a victim too. Then erik took the stand. He would have me give him oral sex, and he would stick the needles or the tacks into my thighs as he was doing this. Reporter erik testified that when he refused to cooperate with his fathers demands he came back with the knife, and put it on my neck. He said i should kill you, and next time i will. Reporter reaction to the brothers testimony was, to say the least, polarized. You either totally believed that the brothers had been abused or, no, you thought the whole thing was a complete crock of you know what. Reporter but the defense said the brothers explosive claims were just the leadup, the back story, to what really prompted the murders. What do you believe was the originating cause of you and your brother ultimately winding up shooting your parents . Me telling lyle that uh you telling lyle what . Was it you telling lyle that something was happening . My dad my dad had been molesting me. Reporter and had been right up until the murders, erik said, and he testified that his mother was aware of it all. She says i know, ive always known, what do you think im stupid . Reporter lyle said he confronted his father several days before the murders. I told him that i would tell everybody everything about him, i would tell the police, and that i would tell the family. Reporter then according to lyle, his father said something that sounded like a threat. He said we all make choices in life, son. Erik made his, youve made yours. I thought we were in danger reporter and so the brothers drove down to san diego to buy the shotguns for protection, they said. Two days later, said lyle, he and his father had another argument about the abuse after which lyle said his parents went into the den and shut the door and i thought they were going ahead with their plan to kill us. Reporter remember, jose and kitty kept two rifles in the house. So what did you do . I ran upstairs to tell my brother that it was happening now. Reporter they ran out to the car, loaded their guns, and burst through the den door. I was just firing as i went into the room, i just started firing. In what direction . In front of me. What was in front of you . My parents. At some point was your gun empty . Yes. Could see somebody moving, seemed like moving in the direction of where my brother should be. Reporter lyle said he returned to the car, reloaded, and ran back into the house. And what did you do after you reloaded . I ran around and shot my mom. Reporter so did they act while in the mistaken belief they were defending their own lives . Yes, said the defense. A classic case of imperfect self defense. Perfect nonsense, said the prosecutor. She grilled lyle on cross examination. When you put the shotgun up against her cheek, and you pulled the trigger, did you love your mother . Yes. And was that an act of love, mr. Menendez . It was confusion and fear. You were afraid of her at that point . Yes. They slaughtered their mother in a way that was so cruel she got up to run, and they went out, and they reloaded, and they put the gun up to her cheek, and blew her brains out. Im sorry, that is the height of cruelty. Reporter whats more, observed reporter Alan Abrahamson lets count how many seconds it might take to go out to the car. Walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, grab the shotgun shell, put the shotgun shell in, run back in. Remember, time is ticking. Time is ticking. You put the barrel of that shotgun against her cheek, and you pull. That is intent, no doubt about it. Reporter the prosecution believed the brothers were flat out lying about the abuse, and the events leading up to the murders, and as it turned out their testimony gave the state a big opening. They offered their mental state as a defense. So when you offer your mental state as a defense you have waived your psychiatric patient privilege. Reporter the oziel tape. Remember that . By testifying, the brothers had put their mental state on center stage meaning the tape was now fair game. There was no way i was going to make a decision to kill my mother without eriks consent. Reporter the defense played the tape to take the sting out of it. What erik and i did took courage beyond belief. Reporter detective zoeller remember had never heard the tape before, and he was dumbfounded. This was supposedly a candid confession tape, but on it the brothers never once mentioned the issue that was now the very core of their defense. Why did you ever murder your parents . Oh, because they were sexually molesting us. That never came out. Why wouldnt he tell his therapist . Reporter big deal . The prosecution thought so, but by then the jury had already heard many hours of tearful testimony about abuse, and that is when in december, 1993 they retired to consider a verdict. We made a mistake right off the bat. Reporter Hazel Thornton was on eriks jury. We took a show of hands as to what level of guilt we thought that they were, and it became immediate that it was men against women, murder versus manslaughter. Reporter the main issue, said hazel, was the Brothers Story of the abuse. The women believed them. The men did not. Did discussions get heated . Oh, yes. The public thinks that the women were emotional in the trial. It was the men who were emotional. They pounded their fists on the table. They called us names. They yelled at us. Reporter those tumultuous deliberations carried on into the new year, and then southern californias san fernando valley, shattered early this morning by a major earthquake. Reporter a massive 6. 7 earthquake shook southern california. The backdrop against which the juries would deliver a decision that shocked the world. Coming up oj simpson . When oj simpson went home at the end of his trial, it was very hard on the das office. Reporter that explosive case is about to cast a shadow over this one when dateline continues. All necklaces, and all bracelets. Thats 25 off everything november 17th through 26th. At kay, the 1 Jewelry Store in america. Dad . Every kiss begins with kay fortyeight hours of protection. I dont have to reapply this, not once. Its really soft and almost velvety as you put it on. Thats like really soft. Try dove advanced care for softer, smoother underarms. 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Its time for more. Am i too close . I feel like im too close. Get the iphone 8 and with all at t unlimited plans, get hbo for life. Only from at t. Reporter after six months of trial, two juries, one result. Therefore i find that the jury is hopelessly deadlocked and the Court Declares a mistrial. Reporter the juries couldnt make up their minds. Nearly half of them on each panel voted for manslaughter. Da gil garcetti vowed to retry the case. We have an ethical, a professional and moral responsibility to go forward with this case as a first degree murder case. Reporter but before that second trial could begin oj happened. And suddenly the stakes were even bigger. Mr. Garcetti was very upset about the fact that we couldnt win the big one. And when oj simpson went home at the end of his trial, it was very hard on the d. A. s office. We were, you know, nationally considered to be kind of losers. Reporter the second menendez trial began just eight days after ojs acquittal with judge weisberg presiding again. The same judge the same case, but this time the trial was fundamentally different. The first major ruling judge weisberg made was, no tv camera in the courtroom. Reporter this time, one jury for both brothers. Judge weisberg also scaled back testimony about the brothers alleged physical and sexual abuse. Cousin diane, for example, was able to testify, just not about lyle telling her that his father was molesting him. One reason that couldnt come in, was because this time around, lyle didnt take the stand to lay the foundation about abuse in the first place. In between the two trials, there were allegations that he was asking people to fabricate testimony. Letters surfaced after the first trial in which lyle was alleged to have encouraged people to lie for the defense. So the defense decided they couldnt put him on the witness stand, so Erik Menendez had to carry the ball for both brothers. And he was a good witness, but he was not as strong as Lyle Menendez had been at the first trial. Reporter and that expert testimony about the impact of the alleged abuse on the brothers state of mind . Judge weisberg severely limited the number of experts because he felt their testimony was repetitive. One not allowed to testify was dr. Vicary. I was shocked. And i said, well, theyve gutted the defense. I mean, there is no defense without that. Reporter that specific ruling was in large part due to the objections raised by the new prosecutor leading the peoples case. Deputy da david conn. One thing that we have asked the judge to do is to limit the socalled abuse excuse. The approach that the prosecutor david conn, took was to attack at every at every turn and not give any free passes there. Reporter Andrew Wolfberg is a lawyer today. Back then he was the youngest member of the menendez retrial jury. At the time, the defense attorney was saying, this was a family that was win at all costs. The ends justify the means. To say that their parents had abused them was almost like the ends justified the means. Lets make up this story about abuse. Reporter but one thing jurors figured was not made up, was that confession tape. This time, the prosecution got to use that wild card the way they wanted to as their smoking gun. And they highlighted a section where the brothers seemed to have no remorse about what they had done. You miss just having these people around. I miss not having my dog around. If i can make such a gross analogy. That really just was like a punch in the gut. Reporter and then, just before the jury went out, judge weisbergs last ruling. And quite possibly, the most important one of all. The jurors would not be allowed to consider an imperfect selfdefense. Judge weisberg, basing his ruling on a california Supreme Court decision that came down after the first menendez trial, said imperfect self defense didnt apply because the brothers initiated the confrontation with their parents. Reporter do you think in retrospect had you been offered imperfect selfdefense that you might have maybe started in a different place or come to a different conclusion . Im pretty confident that we would not have, because we literally started from firstdegree murder. And when every element was satisfied we were done. Reporter this time around, the deliberations were quicker, more congenial. And certain. The verdicts was guilty on all counts with special circumstances. Reporter guilty of first degree murder. But the fates of lyle and Erik Menendez were not the only headlines more came in the penalty phase. Dr. Vicary finally got to testify. And under oath, he had to admit something the drama involves this man, defense psychiatrist william vicary, who has disclosed that he deleted dozens of portions of his notes because, quote, Leslie Abramson told me, this has to come out. what did it feel like to be you in that particular circumstance of your life . Well, it was very traumatic. Reporter traumatic indeed. The doctor said Leslie Abramson asked him to delete notes she felt could be viewed as evidence of premeditation. And reluctantly, he said, he agreed. The california medical board punished vicary 34 months probation. Abramson disputed vicarys version of events. And after an investigation, the state bar, years later, cited insufficient evidence of violations and closed her case. In the end, all her efforts did not spare the Menendez Brothers from a life sentence. I think the fairness has been drained out of the system. Reporter more than two decades later, that question whether the second trial was fair, is still being debated. Its a tale of two trials. The trials couldnt have been more different. Reporter Cliff Gardner was the attorney appointed to handle lyles appeal. So it was sort of a one, two, three punch. No source evidence, no lay expert testimony. And then your defense doesnt go to the jury. Reporter but the it was the same judge in both trials. It was the same judge. Reporter so whats the explanation for the difference . Its that it it its a very good question. I dont have an answer to it. Reporter in this never before broadcast audio of lyles federal appeal hearing. A judge also questioned why so many key rulings changed in trial number two. I find it a little distasteful that when the state doesnt succeed in convicting somebody under one set of rules, they sort of change the rules dramatically. Reporter fgrounds to vacate their convictions . And what do the brothers have to say all these years later . Well ask Lyle Menendez, next. Coming up the outside world saw what they thought was evidence of premeditation. Id have to say, keith, that its just not really entirely accurate. New details from behind prison walls. And, a new question could there be, a trial number three . This case, they picked out as different. This case shoulda been settled. I found something that worked. And keeps on working. Now . They see me. See me. See if cosentyx could make a difference for you cosentyx is proven to help people with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Find clear skin that can last. Dont use if youre allergic to cosentyx. Before starting cosentyx, you should be checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms. Or if you have received a vaccine or plan to. 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He was confident, articulate, and, twentyeight years later, still eager to explain why he and his brother killed their parents. He shared intimate details about his childhood, and, the betrayal he said he felt when erik confided to him days before the murders that their father was still molesting him. My fathers rapes, i said nothing. Pact i had with my dad is im keeping this secret. And for you to have done this to my brother, it was like, i kept my part of that sort of devils pact. And and my mother, you know, you let your children wake up in the home of a child molester every day . Reporter lyle testified in the trial that not only did his mother cover for her husbands actions, she also sexually abused him. A quarter century after the murders, those feelings of anger and hurt are still close to the surface, said lyle. My mother was very cruel. I beli she just very much resented my brother and i from early early on. Reporter as if you and erik had come between her and your father. Yes, exactly. Reporter we reminded him of what his prosecutors still say about him. That lyle is still trying to avoid some level of responsibility by blaming abuse, when the abuse doesnt appear to have been so bad as to as to cause a person to do that. I would trade my entire defense for a 30second video of my father raping me i i would trade my whole case for it. Because i think its so sanitized and so easy to use the word, abuse. Oh, abuse, the abuse wasnt so bad. So lets get down to the incident itself. When did you and erik decide to kill your parents . We didnt decide to do it. It was, we finally just kinda got overwhelmed with this panic and emotion and and made the decision to to run in that room. Reporter the outside world saw what they thought was evidence of a lot of premeditation using a friends drivers license to, you know, hide the fact that you went to san diego and got weapons. Id have to say, keith, that theres you know, its just not really entirely accurate. I didnt have a california id. So there was no way to purchase a weapon other than my brother using this other kids id. Reporter but, no disputing it, they did buy the guns in advance with a stolen id. And there was this irrefutable fact the prosecutor pointed out lyle reloaded and fired that final shot at his mothers face while she was still alive and crawling desperately to get away. They saw that as the evidence of premeditation and cruelty. I certainly in the room wasnt making kind of decisions in a chaotic situation like that. But, you know, reflecting afterwards, you know. It haunts me. It it does haunt me. Reporter the other comment that would come up was, well, they you know, they coulda just gone out and got in the car and driven away, you know . They they didnt have to do this. A person like my father is not going to allow you to just take something that will ruin his life that he has so carefully crafted hes not going to. Hes not going to. Reporter butbut but you coulda left. Thats the point im tryin to make. But leave and do what . Leave and just wait for yourself to be killed in a parking lot . Reporter you really thought that would happen . Leave and tell who . Reporter they didnt believe anyone could help them, said lyle, not even the police. Speaking of which, that 911call lyle made who was the person that was shot . My mom and my dad. Reporter you were so you know s grief stricken on that call and lying at the same time. Yeah. I dont think i was grief stricken. I think i was just absolutely broken down with stress. Both of us were just in such a state of trauma that i just it just poured through on that call and made it very easy to make that call, really. Reporter but you know, but you coulda told them. Instead, you misled them. Why why that . Well, i i mean i dont think i was going to tell the Beverly Hills Police Department you know, i killed my parents. And heres why, and they were gonna go, okay, go back home, so just selfpreservation at that point. Reporter lyle strongly denied the prosecutions claim that he and erik killed their parents for money. Furthermore, he said he didnt think their case should have even gone to trial. This case shoulda been settled. There are, like, two 200 to 300 homicide cases a year, where a parent is killed by a child. And they are almost all related to abuse. And they are almost all settled. This case, they picked out as different. Reporter yeah, but lyle, it was different. Guys like you in places like you live and acts like you committed. I mean, this its this is a big, splashy deal. Exactly. And i think that it was very easy, because it was Beverly Hills, and my father had a lotta money, to sort of sell this headline that these brothers killed for money. Reporter you havent seen eric in how long . Wow. 1996. Reporter getting to be a long time. Yeah. I i miss my brother every day. Reporter Erik Menendez declined our interview request. He has been married for 18 years. Lyle for 14. And remember erik had said both he and his brother wanted to pursue careers in politics . In a highly unusual way, theyve done it, sort of. Erik has started a life care and Hospice Program for inmates at the Richard Donovan correctional facility near san diego and 500 miles north, lyle is president of the inmate government at mule creek state prison. I know its going to be a suffering for me but i feel like i can find some purpose here. Reporter lyles former appellate attorney told us if the brothers can produce new evidence of the abuse, it would be the first step toward perhaps getting a third trial. Even he admits its a long shot. But if it did happen, two people surely wouldnt be there. Defense attorney Leslie Abramson is retired from law and did not respond to our interview request. As for prosecutor pam bozanich you really think that this kinda wrecked your career . Oh it did, of course, it did. But its okay. If id won the case, i probably never wouldve been a mother. I probably wouldve gone on some book tour or something. And i wouldnt be natalies mom. And so it does have a happy ending. Reporter before she left the das office, pam bozanich took something with her. A picture of kitty. Not this one. No. She took one from the crime scene. She had blue eyes. And one little blue eye is open. And the other ones gone. You p might think im little crazy to keep that picture. But its a reminder of what those horrible children did to her. Can you imagine giving birth and then giving everything you have to these two kids and they kill you . Reporter the Menendez Brothers have supporters, who hope they get out of prison one day. By this morning, lyles facebook followers numbered more than 1600. Fair to say, pam bozanich is not one of them. Life in prison for those two is just fine. I hope they live a long, long life. Thats all for now. Im lester holt. Th being w us on this friday night i m raj mathai. And i m jessica aguirre. Good evening and thanks for being with us on this friday night im raj mathai. Im jessica aguirre. New at 11 00 tonight a courthouse confrontation caught on video. Claims of Excessive Force tonight at the hands of a deputy attempted to enforce a no courthouse video taping rule. The woman who shot the video claim it is deputy broke her hand when he took the phone. Did he go to