Jonathan attorney general Merrick Garland makes a major decision in the hunter biden probe. An abrupt reversal thats likely to send the case to trial. Nobody in their right mind believes that making him a special counsel cleans up the mess thats been created. There is no evidence to show that hunter bide. Did anything wrong. Jonathan a federal judge warns trump not to intimidate witnesses or reveal confidential evidence. A i will talk about it. I will. Theyre not taking away my First Amendment right. Jonathan and the former president braces for a likely fourth indictment. This one in georgia. If someone broke the law in Fulton County, georgia, i have a duty to prosecute. I have just received notification to appear on Tuesday Morning at the Fulton County grand jury. Jonathan the campaign and the law on a collision course just ten days until the first republican primary debate. I think everyone that is standing for the republican nomination, from my former running mate on down ought to be on that stage. I dont understand any candidate not signing the debate pledge. Jonathan our exclusive interviews this morning. Republican president ial candidate Chris Christie, democratic congressman jamie raskin, Gabriel Sterling. Plus, legal analysis from preet bharara, and sarah isgur, and our powerhouse round table. Jonathan good morning, and welcome to this week. Well get to the Major Political developments in a moment, but first, tragic news overnight in hawaii. The death toll in maui now climbing to more than 90 and expected to grow, making this the deadliest u. S. Wildfire in the last 100 years. Thousands have been left homeless and buildings have been burned to the ground. Abcs whit johnson is on the scene tracking the latest. Whit . Whit jon, good morning to you. Were still getting a sense of the scope and scale of this disaster and the heartbreak that so many are experiencing in this community and across the island here on maui. Here we are standing in front of yet another burned out home, and this morning there are still two wildfires burning as fire crews work to put out hot spots. The death toll from those devastating wildfires has new increased to at least 93 making this the deadliest wildfire in modern history. Search and rescue teams scouring the rubble searching for people still missing, and many people separated by the flames, the burned out buildings and the roadblocks. Theyre desperately trying to be reunited. Announcing a comprehensive review of decisions that were made before, during, and after the fire and whether people were given enough warning to be able to get to safety. Many telling us they only decided to evacuate after seeing the smoke and the flames and hearing explosions or having neighbors knock on their doors to warn them to get out, but despite all of this and everything that people are going through, that aloha spirit remains strong. Weve seen so many banding together in this community, offering help, supplies, doing everything they can to help each other in need. Jon . Jonathan thank you, whit. Well have more on world news tonight. Were going to turn to politics now. Just ten days from the first republican primary debate. The emerging campaign has been eclipsed by investigations, special counsels, court proceedings, accusations of nefarious and criminal behavior, and talk again of impeachment. If you are having trouble keeping track of it all, you are not alone. Our friends at axios are now calling this the scandal election. A few weeks ago the doj investigation of hunter biden was thought to be all but over, but in a surprising move friday, attorney general Merrick Garland announced hes now elevated the prosecutor in that case to the status of special counsel. Garlands move seemed to please nobody. It made democrats unhappy because it raises the prospect of drawing out an investigation that has already been going on for nearly five years, and the possibility that we can add a trial of the president s son to the crowded 2024 legal and campaign calendar. Republicans had called for a special counsel, but they denounced the move saying that now special counsel david weiss is the wrong man for the job, and vowing to turn up the heat with their own investigations of the biden family and moving toward an Election Year impeachment inquiry of the president. Oh, and by the way, President Biden still faces his own special counsel investigation into his handling of classified documents. And then theres former President Donald Trump who already faces charges in three criminal cases and the very real possibility that hell be indicted for a fourth time in the coming days for trying to overturn the 2020 Election Results in georgia. In court friday, judge Tanya Chutkan who is overseeing jack smiths election case, issued a stern warning to the former president against sharing confidential evidence and intimidating potential witnesses saying she will take, quote, whatever measures necessary to safeguard the integrity of these proceedings. Were going to cover all this morning, starting with preet bharara, and sarah isgur. Preet, let me start with you. What does this designation mean for the hunter biden case . It doesnt mean terribly much more than what has been the case. As Merrick Garland has made clear throughout, david weiss who was a holdover from the Trump Administration was courted informally to make what changes he was expected to make. Now hes designated special counsel and in the same way you may recall james comey brought in Patrick Fitzgerald to investigate the leak. In addition to what was already the case, it makes him a little bit harder to fire. It also requires that at the end of his investigation, david weiss investigation, hes required to file a confidential report in the same way that bob mueller did, and also if it turns out at the end of the day that david weiss makes a decision and Merrick Garland disagrees and overrules him, he has to let congress know. Jonathan doesnt this signal this will be a longer investigation . This is going to go to trial. The whole thing was going to be wrapped up a few weeks ago and thats not the case, and the government moved to withdraw which is parallel to an indictment. That doesnt usually happen unless bigger, larger charges and more counts will follow. This could take quite some time now. Jonathan youre familiar with special counsels. So why do you think weiss asked for this . I think this is not a great moment for the department of justice. You had the plea deal fall apart in a very public fashion where it looked like the department of justice didnt know what was in their plea deal. You had a whistleblower saying that weiss had not been given the latitude, but then weiss himself claimed that he had. For instance, bringing charges in different jurisdictions. So a lot of political pressure builds, and then you have the attorney general give this designation. The department never wants to be seen as responding to these outside forces and this outside pressure, and thats exactly what it looks like here. Now i agree with preet that in the end, this doesnt change a whole lot. Special counsels by and large just have the powers of a u. S. Attorney. So to make a u. S. Attorney a special counsel with the powers of a u. S. Attorney doesnt change much, but it does signal that the department certainly felt that things were not going their way. Jonathan i know that democrats are not happy about this, but why are republicans called for this special counsel, and then they came out and said its the sign of a coverup. Jim jordan back in february saying wheres the special counsel . You have him saying this week, whys there a special counsel . You know, politics. Jonathan we have a lot the other major news this week in the legal case is judge chutkan had her first legal hearing. Shes issued this protective order. Donald trump cannot reveal confidential, sensitive grand jury information. Thats standard, but let me ask you this, preet. What happens if he violates that order . What do you do . Indict the guy again . Put him in jail . What do you do . She said one of the things she might do is move the trial date up which is probably the biggest hammer that you could wield against donald trump. Hes got three cases pending. Hes got another one that may be pending. He really wants those things too happen after the election, and this judge i think very wisely, some would say cleverly, has said she has very various powers including perhaps acquiescing, and she can release, but i think jonathan how likely is that in. It depends on what donald trump does. This debate about the protective order is not so important insofar as documents have to be documented, but its how the jung is going to let the case unfold. Neither side will get what they want. The trump sided, you know, no order at all. They didnt get it. This judge means business, and its going to be a tough haul i think for both sides. Jonathan what did you read listening to this judge . She was tough. Obviously we got a lot of insight into her mindset over this trial and how she views it visavis it being part of a president ial campaign. You know jonathan she doesnt really care. Not only does she not care. She says, this is more important. Any problems that you may have with the trial or the iowa caucus or a debate, that goes underneath this. You are a criminal defendant first. Your free speech rights will give way to this trial. That is that portends as if this is like any other criminal defense trial going on in the country, and frankly, you know, as the prosecution is asking for an early january trial date that would put him sitting in a courtroom rather than in iowa, you can make a political argument that actually helps donald trump, but at the end of the day, this is unprecedented. Jonathan january 2nd is what they asked for. I dont know, but what ill say is to me, the government in its application talked about the interest in a speedy trial, and the speedy trial does not only benefit the defendant, but also the public. Whats implied is what i think they mean, if we dont have a speedy trial of donald trump, in other words, before the election, there may not be accountability for donald trump or justice because if he gets reelected, he has various means including by way of selfpardon and by controlling the Justice Department for him and that office of Legal Counsel opinion that says you cant prosecute a sitting president if we dont get a trial, the government is implicitly saying, before the election, there may never be one. Jonathan if he is convicted and then appeals, what happens there . He has a right to an appeal. As you implied by your question, nothing about being charged, nothing about being convicted prevents him from running for president. There will be an awkward moment when legal scholars like us will have to discuss if he gets a jail sentence, how that works in terms of being commander in chief. Jonathan resolute in the jail cell perhaps. This is unbelievable, the issues here. Sarah, preet, thank you very much. Joining us now is jamie raskin, the top democrat on the House Oversight committee. Thank you for being here. What do you make of this appointment of the special counsel in the hunter biden case . Its what my republican colleagues have been demanding and asking for for months and now they seem to disapprove of it for some reason, but to me it seems to formalize what has basically been the understanding from the beginning, which is that david weiss, the u. S. Attorney for delaware who had been nominated by donald trump can make decisions about what to charge, where to charge, and when to charge with the agreement that he had worked out with hunter biden and now he wants to be certain that hes got the authority to go bring charges wherever he wants. From my perspective, it is the rule of law and the Justice System working itself out the way that it does, and, you know, obviously its bumpy and this side or that side doesnt necessarily prefer this course of events, but our job i think as political people is to allow the Justice System to run its course. Jonathan as you point out, garland said he had exactly the authority. He could change venue if he wanted to. It was his decision. He was going to abide by whatever decisions he made. So obviously the plea deal collapsed, but what changed . Why is there any sense theres new evidence here or the investigation is going to take a different turn . I mean, why would he demand this now or ask for this now . I mean, i dont know what factors went into the calculus to appoint. Obviously there had to be some Public Interest rationale for it, you know, the Material Change in circumstance that i can discern is simply the collapse of the plea agreement. There was no need to have a special counsel when it looked like they had agreed to the tax charges, the failure to pay in two cases, two misdemeanor charges, but when that agreement appeared to evaporate, then i suppose they wanted to formalize that the u. S. Attorney for delaware had the authority that he needed in order to prosecute the case, and we were second guessing or micromanage. Jonathan or responding to political pressure. Chuck grassley wanted weiss to be the special counsel. Now theyre crying foul because theyre saying weiss was the wrong guy. If he couldnt get approved, how could he be trusted as special counsel . Yeah. Well, i mean, you may as well just say how could Kevin Mccarthy who told donald trump that it was his people who had stormed his own office and the capitol was at fault, but then turned around, you know, a week or two later to be trusted on any of this. So, you know, this is why we have a Justice System. Lets just let them do their job. Jonathan so i want to ask you more of some of the stuff that the republicans have been highlighting regarding hunter biden. You know, weve seen we saw we saw joe biden at one point say that hunter biden had no dealings, got no money from china. We now see from hunters own words that thats not true. Does any of this raise concerns for you, you know, the money from ukraine, the money from china, the money from russia . Does any of this, you know whether or not its criminal. Whether or not it warrants special counsel status, are you concerned about this stuff . Heres what im concerned about. During the Trump Administration, we saw the development of a completely new public philosophy which is that government is not an instrument of the common good in the common instrument. Government is for the private selfenrichment for the guy that gets in, for his family and his private businesses, and thats a model were seeing all over the world. Jonathan you dont approve of that model obviously. I do not. Thats what putin is doing, you know, thats what marcos is doing, and its new for america that somebody would get in and just say, you know, everything is corrupt and im just as corrupt as the next guy, and im going to take money as trump did from china, from saudi arabia, from the united arab emirates. Look, you know, his soninlaw jared kushner, pocketed a cool 2 billion jonathan from saudi arabia. From saudi arabia. Jonathan there was a portfolio in the white house. What about hunter . Im concerned about it and im concerned not just about Public Officials like donald trump and jared kushner, but even family members who water ski along for the ride and i have been, you know, begging my colleague, chairman comer for us to do a serious analysis of what the laws should be about moneymaking. Jonathan and you would take part in a serious investigation. Of course, we would, and were going to release a report about all of the Foreign Government emoluments. And we want to look at the business deals when he was president. They have not laid a glove on joe biden. As president , they havent been able to show any criminal corruption on his part. What theyve got is hunter biden, and we all seem clear that this guy was addicted to drugs and did a lot of unlawful and wrong things, and we have said let the Justice System run its course. Theyre not saying that about donald trump. Any time donald trump actually gets indicted after a grand jury has already determined that theres probable cause jonathan they attack the prosecutors. They attack the prosecutors, the judges, the system. For them, donald trump could never be guilty of anything. Jamie raskin, thank you. Were out of time. The round table is coming up, and former new Jersey Governor Chris Christie joins us live next. Eat sting whistle blows look, steph i got an instant online offer on my car from carmax. In under two minutes. Well i got an instanter offer on my car. Even faster. Instanter . Thats not a thing. It is. Not even a word. I think you get instanter offers when youve had nine allstar appearances. Um, thirteen. Sure. That must mean i got an instanter offerer. Er. Well i got an instanter offerer. Er. Er let it go, steph. under his breath i cant. dynamic sting whistle blows have fun, sis cant stop adding stuff to your cart . Get the bank of america customized cash rewards card, choose the Online Shopping category and earn 3 cash back. The pandemic may be over, but unfortunately covid19 isnt going anywhere. In fact, its still among the top five leading causes of death in the us, right after Heart Disease and cancer. And covid19 related er visits are three times higher than the flu. So stay uptodate with the latest covid19 vaccines this fall, just like you do with the flu. Because youve got no time for 19. Stay uptodate with the latest covid19 vaccines. You see, everybody. I want the people at home to think about this. Thats what washington, d. C. Does. The drive by shot at the beginning with incorrect and incomplete information, and then the memorized 25second speech that is exactly what it is. Heres the bottom line. This notion that barack obama doesnt know what hes doing is just not true. There it is. There it is, the memorized, 25second speech. There it is, everybody. Jonathan that was Chris Christie swinging hard at florida senator marco rubio during the 2016 republican primary debate in new hampshire. The former new jersey governor and current president ial candidate joins me now. Governor christie, before we get to this race, a quick question about that race. Looking back at all thats happened since then, do you ever wish that you had taken that swing at donald trump and not at marco rubio . I wish that i had taken swings at both of them, jon, looking back on it. I think we all made a mistake in 2016. Myself, marco, jeb bush, john kasich, in not going after donald trump. I think we all were under the illusion that somehow what was obvious us to at the moment, that there were better candidates on the stage than him would be obvious to the public. It wasnt, and i think it should inform everybodys approach to the race this time. It certainly is informing mine. Jonathan the first primary debates obviously ten days away. Youre going to be there. We dont know if you will have a chance to take on donald trump, because he hasnt said if hes going to be there. This pledge is out if the rnc, and we see the language of it, theyre requiring everybody to sign i want to put it if you were for a moment here. It says, i will support the nominee and will not seek to run as an independent. Trump says he wont sign the pledge. Do you think the rnc would really keep him off the debate stage if he doesnt sign . They would keep the frontrunner off the stage . I do. I do think they would. I think that they are serious about wanting this pledge signed, and i think they would keep donald trump off the stage if he chose not to sign the pledge. You and i have been through this before. He did the same thing in 2016 in terms of not wanting to sign the pledge and waiting until the very last minute to do it. We dont know how much he would have respected the pledge even after having signed it. Look. I think this is all kind of nonsensical theater. Ive made that clear to the rnc as well. Way back even before i entered the race, i thought the pledge was a bad idea, and donald trump is now playing that game, but thats what he does. You know this, jon. He plays misdirection all the time. I would not be the least bit surprised if sometime around sunday or monday of next week that he signs the pledge, and he hoes up on the stage on wednesday. He might not also, but i would not be the least bit surprised if he did. This is about donald trump keeping the attention on donald trump and hes doing pretty well because in the first question this morning were talking about him and thats what he likes. Jonathan its interesting in that 2016 pledge, very similar to this one, it was violated by two of the candidates in the debates. John kasich and jeb bush both signed the pledge and didnt support donald trump. Have you signed this pledge yet . I havent. I havent been presented with the pledge yet, jon. Theyre still going through, i guess, the process of verifying all of our donors and all the rest of it, but im sure ill be presented with the pledge at some point in the next week, but i have not been presented with it yet, no. Jonathan more on donald trump if you dont mind with the special counsel. We had the judge the judge in the election interference case had the first hearing. Shes put this protective order on and also said she will not let politics interfere with this case. Is that possible . Well, lets first start, you know, with what the judge said. I think it is impossible to not have politics inform some of this case. Its not a normal criminal case, and so politics is going to inform some of it, but i also think donald trump needs to be smart and careful about this if thats at all possible, which is that he is a criminal defendant. Jon, let me remind the viewers out there if hes indicted in atlanta this week as were anticipating that he will be, we will have the frontrunner for the republican nomination for president out on bail in four different jurisdictions. New york, miami, washington, and atlanta. Four different jurisdictions hes out on bail, and when youre out, you get subject to certain restrictions, and the reason youre subject to those restrictions is because a grand jury has found that theres probable cause that youve committed criminal acts, and theres not a presumption, a presumption that you should stay out of jail at that point, and they put certain restrictions on you to stay out of jail. I think all of these things are things people are going to have to process for the very first time in a president ial race, and what i think republican voter haves to ask themselves is two things. First is, is he really the guy under indictment in four Different Cases given the conduct that he committed, someone who can beat joe biden or any other democrat in november, 2024, and when are we going to stop pretending that this is normal . Jonathan do you think that pledge its not acceptable. Jonathan do you think that pledge should have a little caveat saying that if the nominee is indicted convicted of a felon that it no longer applies . Who knows . Maybe it will, jon. Well see how it develops over the next week or so. Jonathan Chris Christie, thank you very much. Good to have you back on the show. Talk to you again soon. Thanks jon for having me on, and im looking forward to the debate in ten days. Jonathan the round table is just ahead, and rachel scott joins us from the iowa state fair. Well be right back. My dad was a hard worker. He used to do side jobs installing windows, charging Something Like a hundred bucks a window when other guys were charging four to fivehundred bucks. He just didnt wanna do that. He was proud of the price he was charging. My dad instilled in me, always put the people before the money. Be proud of offering a good product at a fair price. I think hed be extremely proud of me, yeah. 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Jonathan rachel scott is i think its about time that we saw the appointment of the special counsel to get to the bottom of not only what hunter biden was doing, and what the biden family was doing. It just seems to me that theyre going to find a way to give him some type of softball treatment. The American People want answers and right now there are more questions than there are answers. Jonathan just a few of the republican president ial hopefuls reacting to the appointment of special counsel in the hunter biden investigation. Most of the candidates have been out at the iowa state fair this weekend, and so has our rachel scott. Good morning, rachel. I see that the candidates are happy to talk about hunter biden, but what are they saying about trumps legal status . Reporter jon, nearly the entire republican field has been at the iowa state fair this weekend, and almost no one is talking about that possible fourth indictment of the former president. His closest rival, Florida Governor ron desantis has been on a blitz throughout this state. Hes had nine stops, and finally made his mark here at the iowa state fair, and all of that was overshadowed when the former president stepped onto the fairgrounds. Desantis was heckled by protesters. There were chants of we love trump, and the Trump Campaign flew a plane overhead with a banner teasing, be likable, ron. Only traveling to this state seven times since announcing his third bid for the white house, but it will be more challenging for the president to campaign in the coming months. I asked trump if hes concerned about spending more time in a courtroom than out on the campaign trail. He pushed back pointing to his commanding lead in this race, but the Iowa Caucuses are still five months away, and they have been known to surprise, jon. Jonathan thats for sure. Thank you, rachel scott. The round table is here ready to dig into it all next. 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Secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. And hours later, i still smell fresh. Secret works ohhh yesss. Jonathan welcome back. Lets bring in our powerhouse round table. Donna brazile, ramesh panuru, and new york staff writer Susan Glasser and we want to welcome our newest abc contributor, rachel bade, the coauthor of the politico playbook, and well start with you because you were just out in iowa. You landed maybe even this morning. Whats your sense . Is anybody able to break through all the trump noise, any of the candidates . Its interesting because in light of all these negative headlines that the Desantis Campaign has been experiencing lately, hes clinging to this bright spot. That is iowa. Hes polling better there. Hes seen as more likable than donald trump in that state, and yet when you are at the fair on saturday, donald trump comes in on the day that desantis is there, and all of a sudden, you know, crowds are swarming him and he is sucking up all the headlines. I will say from the point of Desantis Campaign, theyre very much looking at iowa as this sort of field of dreams type mantra. If you build it, they will come. Theyre focusing on creating this hyper local campaign visiting all 99 counties, appointing county level chairs in all 99 counties and trying to woo local leaders. They were telling me and theres a belief that if you look at republicans who won the state of iowa previously, a lot of them were barely polling in the Single Digits at this point in the campaign, and would end up coming in to win iowa. Ted cruz, mike huckabee, and so theres a feeling amongst the desantis people Jonathan Rick santoro . Its not over yet. Jonathan you worked on the other side. Does that sound like Wishful Thinking coming from them . I missed those fried cheese curls. I missed the pork chop on a stick, the fried butter and the fried dill pickles. I want to put it all on the table that i enjoyed my time at the fair. Look. Former President Trump as the judge called him now, mr. Trump, he brought the sunshine. He brought floridians on his plane. He created that circus that we saw yesterday, and youre right. There was no more oxygen left for mr. Desantis. I dont know if mr. Desantis can recover some of the momentum he had earlier this year when everyone thought i say everyone, but not me that he was going to be the best alternative. We still have tim scott whos rising in iowa. You still have i think this unknown factor of what might happen over the next two months that could also spell disaster, but for right now i think everybody is wting for the debate and kw i am. Jonathan does he show up . Trump that is. I think the normal political calculation is not to show up. Whats the upside . Except that trump has always had such a keen sense of drama, and the drama of keeping everybody guessing and then showing up and showing that hes not intimidated, you could see how that might appeal to him. Jonathan does he pay a price if he doesnt show up . Usually if you are way ahead, dont take a risk. The other candidates presumably start making the argument that he feels entitled and he feels afraid, and traditionally that kind of thing does have some effect. Whether it has an effect against trump is an open question. Jonathan that seems like a weak way to go after trump considering Everything Else thats there. And susan, if he doesnt sign that pledge, does Ronna Mcdaniel really say no, were going to leave the frontrunner out of the debate . Since Ronna Mcdaniel and the rnc have essentially been an arm of the Trump Campaign both in 2020 and so far in 2024, you know, when in doubt, when it comes to, you know, sort of this Republican Party, its become so trumpfied, i imagine theyll find a way around it. Chris christie by the way, i believe in the past. He said he would stein it and then disregard it to not vote for donald trump. Again and again, this is his story. The story is the Republican Party finding a way to justify the unjustifiable. Donald trump, you know, theres nothing that man doesnt love more than a camera. Our default setting has got to be that hes going to find his way in the middle. Jonathan that he might show up. Christie i thought was interesting, rachel, in saying that, you know, he thought he made a mistake and the others made a mistake by not taking trump on in 2016 early. Actually, christie waited another four or five years to do so, but i mean, what is your sense . Are they finally going to going to take him on or is this like is he actually going to show up . You made an interesting point. Pence is going nowhere in the polls and fund raising is in trouble. Barely made the debate stage. Or is he campaigning for Something Else . It was interesting to watch pence because the Vice President , you know, after january 6th and for several months, you know, after trump left office, he didnt want to talk about what happened that day and, you know, at the fair, we very much saw pence lean in on talking about donald trump and how he was wrong about the 2020 election, and how he didnt have authority to just throw out, you know, Electoral College votes. I watched as a number of people came up and shook his hand, thanked him for doing that, and he also got heckled for doing that, but he brought it up unprompted and he was very much taking shots at trump on this, and sort of the observation my colleague and i had at politico was that, you know, this doesnt really help him with gop voters. Is he running for Something Else . Is he running for legacy . We asked him about that, and he said, you know, im running to win. Jonathan of course. You have to wonder because, you know, it certainly wouldnt help him in the polls. Donald trump took on the republican establishment in 2016, and i dont think the establishment maybe you know better because you understand the republican establishment. They havent been able to really get their sea legs back. I dont know if the Republican Party will ever be a, quote, unquote, a Mainstream Party again like it was before when you understood conservatism, conservative values and now you have an indicted defendant out on bail who is leading the party, who is basically running on a platform of retribution, and that is going to define not just the president ial race, but i think all of the down ballot races as well. Jonathan explicitly running on retribution. You know, get it back to the pence point. I understand everybody thinks it is, you know, so Many Republicans either think that trump won in 20 or think its rude to point out that he didnt win in 2020, but i do think that the other candidates have to make that case if theyre serious about winning because what is your argument left . If trump actually won in 2020, counterfactually, you know, and it was stolen from him, then of course, thats the top issue and you cant say hes a loser. You cant say hes not electable because in that alternate reality, he won two president ial races already. Jonathan and meanwhile we have what happened in ohio which would be a big one to sign for republicans, right . This, you know, ohio big victory for the abortion rights movement, big defeat for republicans. Well, i think part jonathan in a republican state. Part of this is the incredible distortion field where we are we are all somehow living in Donald Trumps alternate reality, right . We are talking about well, its a great benefit to him according to, you know, big story in the New York Times today that hes been indicted criminally, what . Three times and it looks like a fourth coming up this week because were living in this warped distortion field of a republican primary in which donald trump is stampeding. Its a minority of a minority in the country, and so then you have Something Like the series of abortion rights referendum in the wake of the roe versus wade decision. Even in deep red states, there are solid majorities that dont think, you know, donald trump should be the president again, who defeated him in the popular vote in 2016 and in 2020 who support by actually record numbers abortion rights, and yet we live in this world where its somehow good that donald trump is a criminal defendant, but somehow bad electorally for the president that his son is being investigated for something that as far as we know does not directly concern joe biden. Jonathan let me ask you about that, donna. Hunter biden is elevating this to a special counsel. I mean, the white house cannot be happy with garland about this. Well, first of all, let me just say this. I mean, no one is above the law, not even the son of a president of the united states. We need to stress that. You dont see democrats out here attacking Merrick Garland. You dont see democrats out here, you know, saying the Justice Department is weaponized against the bidens. Hunter biden has been under investigation for five years. I can tell you, that must that is painful. Thats painful not just to the president , but for people who love the biden family because he has been under attack. He signed the plea deal a couple of months ago and it fell apart. It collapsed once the judge took a look at the writing and said, i dont like all of these commas. Im not a lawyer. So i dont want to pretend to be one. Jonathan yeah. The fact is hes now going to go through this arduous jonathan its almost five years and itll go on longer now. And theres no evidence linking hunters business dealings to the president. The republicans have tried everything in congress. Theyve tried everything, but this is warmed over leftovers and i do believe at the end of the day, if they can get that deal back on the table, hunter biden will finally be able to live his life again. Jonathan republicans called for the special counsel now are denouncing the special counsel. I understand they say weiss shouldnt be the guy, but is there another reason behind this, rachel . Why republicans are upset by the Justice Department is doing something they asked the Justice Department to do . The hypocrisy is peak washington there. Publicly republicans are saying they dont trust the guy who was named specifically. Jonathan david weiss. Of course, but theres other reasons. This really employees a hole in their top talking point when it comes to the white house and that is this idea of weaponization of the Justice Department, you know, saying that Hunter Bidens being treated differently than President Trump. Now the biden family has more, you know, special counsels than trump does himself, and this is a man whos been indicted for what will be the fourth time potentially this week, and the other reason is that republicans really wanted to do a quick impeachment of joe biden. They were planning on it and this really complicate that is plan. Jonathan why . Because usually when you go back to democrats in the 2019, there was a belief, you know, they were going to impeach trump at some point, but the mantra was, we dont finish this until the special counsel finished his work. Jonathan mueller. Yeah. This just starting could drag out into next year which means any impeachment push they have is potentially going to stall. Moderate republicans are not going to vote for an impeachment inquiry, and theres a special counsel investigation into this. Jonathan was he ever serious about it . He has to be serious about it because he is being led around by the nose essentially by a faction of any five house republicans, and i think, you know, he has flirted again and again with whether its shutting down the government or the impending crisis we may have with Government Spending in september. Same thing with impeachment. He has a radical sort of fringe thats able to threaten essentially to depose him at any moment. You know, i cant even keep straight what the message is from Kevin Mccarthy at this moment. I cant tell you. Wait. Is he for impeachment right now or hes for jonathan well get you next week on this one. Coming up, another potential indictment looms for donald trump in georgia. Our Aaron Katersky is there at the courthouse and we speak with one of the likely key witnesses in that case, next. Of the like in that case, next. Rsv can be a dangerous virus. [sneeze]. For those 60 and older. Its not just a cold. And if youre 60 or older. You may be at increased risk of hospitalization. [coughing]. From this highly. Contagious virus. Not all dangers come with warning labels. Talk to your pharmacist or doctor. About getting vaccinated against rsv today. Have fun, sis cant stop adding stuff to your cart . Get the bank of america customized cash rewards card, choose the Online Shopping category and earn 3 cash back. New natures bounty hair growth. 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But the same aipowered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here. Have fun, sis cant stop adding stuff to your cart . Get the bank of america customized cash rewards card, choose the Online Shopping category and earn 3 cash back. Mr. President , it looks like you likely lost the state of georgia. Were investigating. Theres always a possibility. I get it. You have the rights to go through the courts. What you dont have the ability to do, and you need to step up and say this, is stop inspiring people to commit potential acts of violence. Someone is going to get hurt. Someone is going to get shot. Someone is going to get killed, and its not right. Jonathan that was Georgia Election official Gabriel Sterling in 2020 rebuking thenPresident Donald Trumps efforts to overturn the states Election Results. Well talk to mr. Sterling in a moment, but first lets go to Senior Investigative reporter Aaron Katersky who is outside the courthouse in atlanta where the District Attorney will be making her case to a grand jury this week. Good morning, aaron. Reporter jon, good morning. There is every indication here that former President Trump and others could be charged this week over efforts to tamper with the 2020 Election Results in this state including trumps browbeating phone call to the secretary of state asking him to find some 12,000 vote that is he needed to win. Armed security barriers are up around this courthouse. The District Attorney fani willis has said her work is accomplished and her work is about to go to a grand jury. Several witnesses have said they have been called to testify. The jury could be asked to vote any day now. Of all the criminal cases the one here in atlanta may be the most expansive. Taking aim not only at the former president , but also some of his allies that sought to keep him in power. There was Rudy Giuliani who gave testimony to the state legislature filled with falsehoods, sham electors, held a ceremony at the state capitol, and some Trump Supporters harassed Fulton County poll workers. Youll remember ruby freeman and shayemoss told the january committee they feared for their lives and retreated from their lives. The former president has tried to disqualify the Prosecutor Fani Willis from even bringing this case. So far though, those efforts have been unsuccessful. Jonathan all right. Aaron katersky, well be hearing more from you this week. Were joined now by Gabriel Sterling, the chief operating officer at the georgia secretary of states office. Mr. Sterling, we heard what you said so memorably back in late december of 2020 warning about the possibility of violence. Im wondering as you look at whats happened since, an indictment from the special counsel for election interference and now potential indictments in georgia. Did you think that this is where that would ultimately end up, indictments of the former president . I mean, no. Its hard to believe weve gotten where weve gotten and i know im probably like most americans and weve got fatigue over the entire thing. Obviously the Fulton County case is different than the other ones. Its more expansive, but the system has to work its way through one way or the other. Jonathan how close are you going to be watching this, and what will you be looking for . I mean, im kind of, like, listen. I was a political junky before i got this job, and ill be watching it closely to see what happens. The reality is before the bragg indictment, he was behind desantis. A lot of that money i think as i pointed out earlier was used to pay for his lawyers, but its driving him being ahead because hes making himself a victim. Hes making himself a martyr and a lot of the American People are behind him because they feel like some of these things are a little bit of a stretch. Jonathan do you think its a stretch . The bragg one is. He bootstrapped that thing to get it to be avoiding the timelines and the statute of limitations. I dont know whats going to be in the case in Fulton County yet. What i can do, is Brad Raffensperger and i, we can tell the truth, do our jobs, follow the law, follow the constitution. Thats all our role is in this situation. Jonathan you and Brad Raffensperger both said many times that trump lost the election in georgia. Let me ask you a question central to jack smiths case. Do you think trump knew he lost . Well, the reality is, and these are the facts. I mean, 20,000 people decided to skip the top of the election. They didnt vote for biden or trump. About 35,000 people whoed and absentee ballots in the primary election as republicans did not vote at all in the general election because donald trump demonized voting by absentee. There were Senior Citizen voters who didnt do it, and we keep on saying this over and over again. The thing that weve learned in public reporting on this is he requested there be two independent audits and verifications by outside groups and he paid 600,000, and both said there was no fraud. You lost the state. We have been saying this over and over again. We counted the ballots three times. He lost this state, and he continued to say he didnt lose it, and its just creating a lot of tension and a lot of chaos. This is completely unnecessary. Theres real issues in this country. Anybody talking about the 2020 election is going to lose the general election. Youre not gaining any voters by doing that. Jonathan you testified before the special grand jury that did so much of the investigation in this Fulton County investigation case. Have you been asked to testify before the grand jury this week . I testified before the grand jury and i did two interviews with the d. A. Officers. My lawyer said i couldnt talk too much, but if and when i am called, i will go before and tell the truth and answer honestly. Thats all i can do in this situation. Jonathan the Trump Campaign is out with an ad labeling the investigators and labeling them as a fraud squad. Willis is among those included in this ad that she said contains derogatory and false information. Are you concerned that trumps words its not just that ad. Its obviously much more than just that. Are you concerned once again that we could see violence as a result of the former president s words . Obviously at this point, you never know whats going to happen. My biggest concern for years now, and ive said this at elections conferences, where we get professionals who run elections, is someone will be motivated by this kind of language at some point and do something stupid. Its not going to be an organized thing. It wont be a bunch of conspirators together. Itll be one probably mentally unstable individual whos radicalized through this process and thats my biggest concern through this. The underlying concern, and what i have seen, i have been involved in politics since the 80s. I got accused of both siderism on this. Theyre accused of scaling it up, and trump is the latest version of that. Demonizing the Supreme Court and saying its okay to harass Supreme Court justices. We need more grownups and people to say, we got to knock this crap out and focus on the American People and what they need. I know everybody is getting tired of it and its difficult to say, and unfortunately it is both sides and it has been building and its almost like a Reality Tv Show versus actual governance. Jonathan i think a lot of people would agree with that sentiment. Let me ask you one final question. You have been Crystal Clear that trump lost the election. There was no massive fraud. Why do so Many Republican voters believe the lies about that . I think what it comes down to oftentimes are parties its tribal. If my party believes this, then therefore i will believe it, and if you dont believe it, then youre committing apostasy, and youre not following the rules and both sides are doing this. The people in georgia are very sick of this. Between the russian hacking lie about hillary winning and the stacey abrams, the election was stolen and then donald trump claiming the election was stolen. Everybody whos talked about stolen elections has lost in this state. If you are going to be president of the united states, you have to win georgia. Jonathan you dont complain a Election Fraud when youve won. Thank you very much, Gabriel Sterling. Well be right back. Jonathan before we go, one more word about the heartbreaking devastation in hawaii. If you would like to support the relief effort, scan the qr code at the bottom of your screen or go to our website, abcnews. Com for information on how you can help. Have a good day. Have a good day. Crews make fire thats progress in a firearm a brush. 50 degrees going to 78 today. Plenty of sunshine and warmer temperatures over the inland valleys. How warm will it get . How long will the warmth last . We will have the answers next on abc 7 mornings at well well well, what have we here . A magical place. Thats lookin to get scared with bats. And ghouls. And cars in disguise. Ive cast quite a spell now. You wont believe your eyes [laughter] the spell is cast. 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