Judges, continuing to push, probably will look to expand the circuit courts if he wins a second term. Lots of people are talking about wanting to do that and appoint a lot more judges especially if the Senate Majority holds. I think youll see him look to get a covid package. Thats much more to his liking than the ones that were being proposed by nancy pelosi and hes going to have to decide from a total perspective and hell continue on the same path from tone, the question will be for him what can he accomplish assuming a Democratic House if he continues that way . And thats going to be his monumental decision. What legacy does he want or does he move away from it like many second term president s and move completely to Foreign Policy and try to accomplish something there. If joe biden still has a path, hes also 77 years old and was in some ways a transition figure for the Democratic Party. So there will be a generational struggle inside the Democratic Party whether joe biden wins or loses. Thats very true and i think the party took a gamble, i think, in saying we need our standardbearer this cycle to be someone who was established, who was older, who was someone that could bring the entire country together and the question is was that the right choice . I dont know. I think in appointing Kamala Harris as his Vice President there was at least some expectation that the shift would happen. I dont know whether people believed that was soon enough or not. One question i want to get back if i can quickly this gender gap. This issue were seeing with women coming back into the Democratic Party in higher numbers than we saw in 2016 but men shifting more strongly into the trump category and i think thats where hes picking up more brown and black voters are among men and not among women. That gets it to a question of toxic masculinity and whether men identify more with that than the genteel unifying message that joe biden put forward and well be asking that question. We got another state in hawaii. Hawaii is going to go to joe biden, four electoral votes. Thats not a surprise, hawaii, strong Democratic State so he has won 19 states, 225 electoral votes but hawaii doesnt change the math or the map right now. Rahm emanuel, pick up on this conversation and the future of the Democratic Party. Well, i think that it depends what happens. That we still dont know that and i dont want to project Going Forward because i do think were going to have a long time vote counting. If joe biden wins, i think theres going to prove something because youll have had jeremy cachen go down in england and a different candidate there and that means there is a different definition of the Democratic Party which is a party to win youll have to continue to expand not only its base but expand into voters that dont traditionally vote democrat. Thats what that will show and the character that joe biden if he doesnt win well have to do a lot of soul searching about what the road is and while this is trumps party, i dont know if anybody can ever repeat trumps magic. That im not sure theres anybody in the wings and the question is well have to in my view have another generation of people come up but there will be like weve seen before it will continue about which part of the party do you need . Somebody that quote unquote excites the base or somebody that reaches out and creates a bigger span for the party to win. We just heard it from yvette, one of the leaders from the progressive movement. If biden loses itll be because he wasnt progressive enough. The Democratic Party will move farther to the left and trumps party is trumps party. The Republican Party that i grew up in is different. Its not ever going to be the same again. Do we ultimately have an independent candidate in this country . Not this year, not in four year, but, you know, eight years an independent party thats viable where moderate, more moderates like rahm emanuel and others come together and the country just looks different politically. Terry moran, the rules are the rules and the rules of our election are its determined by the Electoral College, not the popular vote but right now joe biden is leading in the popular vote. For the sake of argument if donald trump is to prevail tonight and then democrats win seven out of the last eight popular votes, but dont hold the presidency for for 16 of those year, what does that say about the country and do you think the country will fully accept it . That, of course, is the question, george. Youre right. That is the constitution at work. Constitution works on the basis of Electoral College. A lot of complaints about it. Very difficult to change. We are a continental nation and communities that are not in the population areas will want to be represented but set aside the Electoral College and talk about losing the presidency with by winning the popular vote. It will well call it a question of legitimacy for the democracy for a lot of people. Theyll say this is baloney. This doesnt work. We keep getting all the votes that in a normal majority race you should win the presidency with and this system which dates from a slave Holding Constitutional founding doesnt work for us. Its very difficult to change but i dont i think it will deepen cynicism and distrust. It is what it is. It is how the system works. But you cant say that young people coming up, people who worked hard to do whatever they could to get their guy across the line, got him across the line and say, again, that because of the system they dont win . Its going to cast doubt on it. Matthew dowd, want to weigh in on oh, sorry. Sorry about that i didnt mean to surprise you. We were just talking about the fact that democrats look like theyre going to win the popular vote again but if donald trump prevails it would have meant they dont have the presidency for 16 of those years for democrats. This is a huge problem. Not only is the delta on the popular vote versus Electoral College like it was in 2016 where Hillary Clinton won, joe biden is likely to win by 7 million or 8 million votes which was my speculation. Win by 7 million or 8 million votes and could possibly lose the Electoral College. Winning the popular vote by 7 million or 8 million votes and i agree with what was said. There will be serious questions if that happens in the aftermath of this. Not only were divided on everything else, were going to be divided on something thats been in our constitution for 230 years. Okay, got to take another quick break. Well be right back. Go on, humans, put yourselves through all that pain. Waltz around in those foot knives, watch your blue light lanterns, blast those eardrum bangers look at this one hes trying to pick up the mail hah silly. Oh. Silly humans. Who do you think you are . Pain will bring you to your senses. You cannot keep this up pain says you cant. Advil says you can. 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Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb,. Hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Be there for you. And them. Ask your gastroenterologist about humira. With humira, remission is possible. And were back now at abc news election headquarters in new york, 4 40 in the east and go back to wisconsin and take a look at the vote right now. Weve been stuck at 84 , but, deb, were getting reports milwaukee ballots have been delivered and have been counted and have been processed. I take it were not ready to say that yet but what more do we know about whats been delivered and when well actually see those ballots . Reporter we do know they have been delivered. There was video of the election commissioner walking out with these 12 flash drives for Milwaukee County. Nour, the problem is milwaukee city, we still dont know if they had all of those. We understand that theyre gathering those together and think, we think maybe within the hour they actually might have a read on whats happening. They said that they would publish those results right away. So we think, george, that maybe within the hour well have a sense of where things are shifting here in wisconsin, but at this point, nothing. Theres dane county which hasnt come in. We havent heard any more about the movement but told somewhere in the next hour or two, two of those very popular and populous counties may come in and show us something but still at this point nothing yet. And, nate silver, can i bring you in on this . Im trying to get a sense nate is trying to find out. Ill let you finish. Nate, ill let you finish the phone call. Sorry. Now that i have you, can you give us some shed some light on whats happening in wisconsin . There are a lot of conflicting reports out there about how much vote is in and it may change the situation somewhat significantly. So, there is a different competing vote tally here that says they have the results in from milwaukee and those would be enough to put joe biden ahead in wisconsin. There are also outstanding votes in green bay, nothing at all has been counted in green bay but the initial indications are someone has a scoop on the other reporting agencies and says these vote also come in very strongly for joe biden in wisconsin probably enough to put him ahead. We dont have that verified yet. We dont. Well all know soon, but, yeah. Try to verify that. Go ahead, rahm. The campaign has biden up by 20,000 votes is what the campaign says. The Biden Campaign believes up by 20,000 votes. Ill ask they dont have kenosha and green bay. It is coming in. There it is. There it is right there, 89 of the expected vote in. Not quite as am as we thought but as you see it according to these numbers 4949 and looks like an 11,000vote lead now for joe biden in the state. So lets talk first about what that changes, jon karl. Well, i mean that changes that changes a lot and first of all its a reminder of the situation that weve been talking about, everybody take a breath, slow down, theres a lot of voting to be counted. We knew that the votes that were going to come in late in wigs, michigan and pennsylvania were going to be mailin votes. We knew that those votes were going to be overwhelmingly democratic. That is not a surprise. So what does it change . It starts to give joe biden more of a path because it was looking like, you know, if you believe the numbers when we were at 84 of the expected vote in, it was looking like trump might take wisconsin. Now with biden taking that, he suddenly has a more of a path to win this thing. Tom, why dont we look at where the numbers are coming in. You were talking about the dump we got out of milwaukee. We were at 50 , actually i think we were around 49 before we got the dump, now at 77 right now and this is where joe biden increased his lead. Hes actually doing better than Hillary Clinton did four years ago, but i also want to point out, george, were still missing a chunk of vote out of milwaukee and that has been trending for democrats, so that could be a bit of good news for joe biden. I do want to point out, though, green bay which is a republican county, President Trump won it four years ago, hes on top right now. Were still missing a lot of the vote out of green bay county. Green bay brown county so could be good news for donald trump. It is incredibly tight but a better sense of whats happening in wisconsin and still 11 of the vote in. Still waiting for 11 of the vote right there. Talk about what it would do for the paths, though. We now know that joe biden is ahead in arizona. Hes at least close in wisconsin now. If hes able to win arizona, nevada and wisconsin, that again opens it back up for him. He would have to win michigan, either michigan or pennsylvania or georgia or north carolina, any of those would work. You know, again, like i tried to emphasize, michigan and pennsylvania, were further away from knowing what we dont know versus what we do know. With milwaukee, with wisconsin, if he wins wisconsin, joe biden, its a lot more robust than without wisconsin. It makes a very big difference. Still waiting for 11 of the vote and a lot of voting in michigan and pennsylvania. We got to take another break. But today theres a combination of two immunotherapies you can take first. One that could mean. A chance to live longer. Opdivo plus yervoy is for adults newly diagnosed with nonsmall cell lung cancer that has spread and that tests positive for pdl1 and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. 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More data coming in from walk and other parts of the state, 89 of the vote is in and look at that. A close race, 49 each for trump and biden. Biden has about an 11,000 just shy of 11,000vote lead now in the state of wisconsin and its ten electoral votes. What is the biden saying about where they are . They see both the milwaukee numbers as also encouraging and do think that out of the kenosha area theyll come up with another 10,000 votes based on this type of trend in the modelling that theyre seeing so theres a little more confidence what theyve said and this is admonition for all of us. Well this will be like mercury, well go up and down, up and down which is always until the votes are counted which is what the Vice President said, count all the votes. Just shows the power of data and graphics and everything like that. No matter how many types you say it when you see it up there, its hard to take in. Right. I mean, the other thing, remember, i was just a minute ago talking about michigan and georgia and all of a sudden you got wisconsin if that goes there, you know, the math gets different. And how you calculate this so the campaign right now sees a lot of promise with the remaining vote thats out. You got green bay, you got the kenosha area and milwaukee, they think that just starts to move their way. Chris christie. The Trump Campaign feels like they were expecting what was coming from the mailin vote from Milwaukee County and they still think that what is left in kenosha and brown county will be enough to have trump win wisconsin. So theyre Still Holding on. Yeah. I guess i want to go into the legal team and, dan abrams, if you dont have this at hand, just tell me and look it up in the meantime, and we can go back to it but i think were getting into the territory where we have to contemplate what would trigger a recount this a state like wisconsin or georgia. Yeah, well, in georgia, theres an automatic recount. In georgia you have to request a recount which id expect is probably going to happen just based on what we know today. In wisconsin, i believe there is an automatic recount at 0. 5 , certainly the case in pennsylvania. But let me just doublecheck. Chris christie has just looked. There is no automatic recount in wisconsin but have you the right to request one if its within 1 . Okay. So were close to that right now. Were close. Were certainly there right now. In georgia its a half point. Georgia, its a half point so then to request. In georgia also Sarah Jessica parker theres no automatic recount. No automatic recount and recounts, dan, when we get into the situation but perhaps now in multiple states theyll be faced in the year 2000 in florida. And the first thing you have to do before you Start Talking about the legal side of it is you have to count the votes and recount the votes, right . Thats when the fights really start. Getting a recount isnt typically that hard. The question is how long does it take . When does it stop, et cetera. And that is exactly as you point out what happened in florida, because the question there became, how much recounting do you do . Because there was an automatic recount in florida back in 2000 but became questions about particular votes, undercounting vote, overcounting votes, those became the questions in florida so it almost became like a round two of the recount and i think thats what the risk is from the legal perspective is you get to that point as well. Terry, i want to bring you in. The clock starts ticking actually its ticking right now, the Electoral College is slated to meet december 14th and that means the states have to be prepared to send their elect tore, usually the safe harbor period its called, a week before we could start buffering up against that if you start to have legal challenges. Since bush versus gore theres been talk that that structure from a 19th century federal law is too short for the recounting youd have to do in the states were talking about especially if we do several but that december 8th date is that safe harbor date. The governors of states have to certify a slate of ee lo elecel. But basically thats what the law says. The Supreme Court used that date in 2000 to stop the counting of votes in flachlt can you go past that deadline and means that congress will then decide whether or not the state of electors you send is good or not so tick, tick, tick, the clock is ticking but one thing that as we look back at bush versus gore is worth remembering if were going to get into the recounts, that was an outlier in many ways. Long history of law around election contests and if you look at it, you will see that overwhelmingly courts at the federal and state and Supreme Court level have basically followed the same principle, keep counting, keep counting, all votes cast in good faith under the law and if you can discern the intent of the voter keep counting. Bush versus gore said stop the count and awarded victory to one side. That is an outlier. Also said dont follow any precedent. Dont follow what we did. Yeah, that weird line in there where they said, because of the weird circumstances here, this case can never be precedent. Well, Justice Brett kavanaugh referred to it as good law and been reused hundreds of times in low lower courts. As a legal matter it also becomes important who is ahead at the end of the recount. Which i think is an important point to make. You can argue that, you know, well, wait a sec, there may be additional votes to count, et cetera but from a per spepgs point of view when but to court you dont want to be the one who is fighting to try to catch up. You want to be the one who is starting from the point where youre ahead so you can constantly be fighting against additional recounts and so where we land at the end of whatever the first recount is in terms of the numbers will become very important even if its razor thin close. And it is razor thin close right now, jon karl, i guess thats appropriate to the year 2020. Its unbelievable. Its totally appropriate to the year 2020 and here we are at the end of this Election Night looking at a race that is as close as it can possibly be coming down to possibly recounts in multiple states and in the case of pennsylvania and michigan, we may be several days out from knowing any kind of a decision. Any kind of a result to have a recount from. Still awaiting results from more more results coming in from wisconsin and from arizona. Nate silver, before we go to the next break, are you getting any new information in that gives you a sense of where wisconsin is going right now . I mean, i think joe biden is in pretty decent shape. The outstanding votes in brown county, my understanding is theyre in green bay, maybe not a lot of vote out in the suburbs or the rural parts of that county so that may end up in the recount margin. Different reports of how many were cast in milwaukee but not many votes now and may have come in for joe biden to be ahead there. Okay, nate silver, thanks very much. Rick klein, remind me because im having a plank at this point. I know pennsylvania has a state Legislature Republican governor, democrat, split in wisconsin as well. It is split and another state where the split actually contributed to the delay that were seeing right now because democrats including the governor there wanted to have a jump on this but this is extraordinary to see the numbers roll in like this because democrats i was talking to up to about 20 minutes ago were acknowledging it is a narrow path. The numbers coming through and, again, because of the early vote answer democrats pushing that direction and the relative blueness of this part of the state that makes it just an overwhelming number of late votes that are being counted very late right now that are trending for joe biden. Rick klein, thanks very much. We have to take one more break. Well be back in a minute. Ma at. Less oral steroids. Taking my treatment at home. Nucala is a oncemonthly addon injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. Not for sudden breathing problems. Allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. 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We just saw this move in wisconsin over the last 20 minutes when a big dump of votes came in from milwaukee. Looking ahead to michigan as similar perhaps in detroit because there is an awful lot of vote outstanding. I wanted to make this point, detroit, where the most vote also come in the state of michigan. You can see right now donald trump has a 200,000vote advantage over joe biden. But in wayne county in detroit, theres only 43 of the vote in. Theres still a lot of vote to count there. Especially around the counties also around detroit, joe biden can hopefully run up the score there if he wants to win michigan, its still unclear. Still a lot of time. They have to count the votes but 43 , a lot of votes still out. 225 for joe biden, 213 for donald trump. Ill take home and take a shower before good morning america. I know many of you are going to doing the same thing but our coverage will continue here on abc news. Well joined by Mona Kosar Abdi and Kenneth Moton right now, live from abc news, your voice, your vote, Election Night 2020. The breaking news at this hour. Im here to tell you tonight we believe were on track to win this election. This is a fraud on the american public. This is an embarrassment to our country. We were getting ready to win this election, frankly we did win this election. The unexpected momentss and the details coming from. We want the law to be used in a proper manner so well be going to the u. S. Supreme court, we want all voting to stop. We dont want them to find any ballots at 4 00 in the morning and add them to the list, okay