Now. But first, san jose was the city where protests really started last friday. I talked with mayor sam licca ghincluding chans policing, the officers seen on video taunting protesters, turning down the National Guard and covid19. Its been six days, it feels a lot longer than that, but i want to ask you how do you feel like your city has done so far based on what youve seen the last few days . Well, things have been much more peaceful in the last certainly in the last 24 hours and im really grateful. Protests have continued, of course, weve seen large crowds, but we have not seen those very few people who have been provoking reactions by throwing bottles, for example, or blowing up fireworks near officers heads, that kind of stuff isnt happening and as a result there havent been any arrests, everything has been very peaceful and we want that to continue. Also been heartened, more than 40 volunteers have shown up to help us clean up the debris, take off the graffiti in the early mornings because people really recognize they dont want this protest to be lost and have the message of this protest be lost in the destruction of our city. People are really coming out to try to embrace their city. Can you describe the people that you see volunteering, coming out, coming out to clean up the city . Its an interesting group. I cant say theres any way to characterize. I was out there a couple mornings ago and we literally had a couple people pull over in their cars and just say, hey, i just want to jump in. One guy said he was going to work and he couldnt actually stay so he bought everybody pizzas which was awesome. And then we had a couple women who walked up to me and said, hey, i protested last night and im just here because i really dont want people to remember this, you know, this graffiti to be associated with this righteous outrage that we feel and so many others feel. So no curfew tonight, right . Thats been lifted and you feel very comfortable with that . Yeah, well, you know, we are uncomfortable with everything right now honestly because we know it all depends on how things turn ou you know. Im comfortable given what weve seen over the last 24 hours it is the right thing to do. Now, obviously if we start to see widespread looting again and so forth we will have to think about other measures, but its certainly my prayer that this curfew will be behind us. Okay. So as youre well aware all this started not just because of the death of george floyd, but really we are talking about systemic racism and the way police in this country have been treating people of color, especially africanamericans. As such what kind of Police Review or engagement policy review is under way right now in san jose . Let me tell you whats what were doing now and what we will be doing. First what weve done is just four days ago a use of force report was released by an independent expert looking at all the data and we tried to be very transparent over the last three or four years around all the data around police stops and detentions and uses of force and so forth. The good news is were starting to see Real Progress in eliminating the disproportionate use of force against black and brown individuals who are detained, who are arrested. So the good news is we are seeing that dramatically drop and we are also seeing the severity of use of force reduced. Okay. Not to say we dont have a lot of problems, we have a lot more work to do. The work weve got ahead, ive accepted the Obama Foundation pledge to do a full review of our use of force. Im also going to be calling on the council to review, for example, specific policies around the use of rubber bullets around crowds, im very uncomfortable with that and i want to understand better why were relying on use of rubber bullets, im quite interested in banning them if its not if its not safe. So were going to be delving in very deeply on some of those issues, but the longer term issue around use of force review is coming up over the next several weeks. You mentioned the rubber bullets because, you know, weve seen journalists have their eyes taken out and other people at protests in other cities due to the rubber bullets and your officers did use them on friday along with tear gas and there are also calls for fear gas to be ended in terms of its use immediately because of its impact also in terms of promoting covid with people coughing more as a result or rubbing their eyes. Is that something youve been considering along with the medical community . Well, im more focused on the rubber bullets because of what the studies that ive seen have said about the potential longterm harm. The reality in terms of covid is these protests involve hundreds if not thousands of people crowded together and if people are concerned about their health and they should be and if they are concerned particularly that they might be particularly vulnerable to covid, there is simply they should not be out there. If theyre concerned about vulnerability because theres going to be spread. I think we have to accept and appreciate that. So it is important for folks who feel they are vulnerable in some significant way if they have, for example, respiratory system they probably should not be out there in those crowds, there are other ways for us to express ourselves and its simply not safe from a Public Health standpoint. I want to ask you about officer jared nguyen. Of course, we saw him on video, i know youve seen it along with the police chief in which it appears like hes being cavalier or sort of taunting the protesters. What kind of a review process and have you made a decision on officer nguyen . Well, what officer nguyen did was wrong and clearly was beneath the standards of our department and our values. I dont have any role in the decisionmaking process around discipline, that is the nature of the city charter that our voters created. It is entirely within the Police Department and i cannot intervene in that process, either. But what i do know is hes been taken off the line, he is not out on the street, he is under investigation now. I expect there will be consequences and there will be significant consequences, but i cannot presume to know what exactly those are going to be until the investigation is done. Can i also ask you do you believe he was the only one on friday night who acted in that vein or do you think perhaps there are others . Is there an attempt to find out if there were others perhaps who who were just not on video . Certainly anyone who has information i encourage them to call our independent police auditor. There is a separate body thats not in the chain of command of the Police Department that will be reviewing any cases and complaints that are brought to us. Look, we dont hire drones or machines, we hire human beings and in some cases where those human beings step over the line well, in all cases if they step over the line there are consequences and they have to be investigated. In some cases those may be mere mistakes, in other cases those may be sanctionable criminal offenses. Whatever the sanction might be is appropriate to obviously the conduct, but its important that we encourage everyone to report every instance of misconduct. We are adamant about holding all of our officers accountable. That being said, i sat there and watched for two or three hours on friday and again on saturday night. I was looking for every sign that there might be an officer stepping over the line, engaging in use of force in a way thats not appropriate. Yeah. What i saw on my view, obviously, only within the limited period of two or three hours, distance of 200 feet was really an admirable amount of restraint among the hundreds of officers who were there who were being hit with bottles. Yeah. Who had fireworks blowing up over their head. There was a lot going on that these officers were dealing with and to their credit they did not react. There was a lot going on for sure. Hey, i want to ask you about declining Governor Newsoms offer for the National Guard to be deployed in san jose if needed. I know San Francisco did accept that offer. Other cities did. What was your thought on that . Yeah, i dont disparage anyone for accepting the offer and i certainly appreciate Governor Newsom offering National Guard to us. First i believe that our department with the assistance of other departments in the area was able to significantly mitigate the risk of violence, although obviously we had a lot of harm and a lot of looting and so forth. That being said it is a very serious issue when you bring in a force that is not accountable to local community in any way and particularly when that force may not be trained to be engaged in urban policing. This is really hard, difficult work these officers do and every second they may make a wrong decision that may cost a life. We saw that in louisville where a National Guardsperson shot im not sure if it was a protesters or another civilian somehow in the last day or two. To put people in that position if they are not trained in a daily way and under the expectations of standards of urban policing is a very uncertain prospect and i simply want to ensure that weve got a police force that is accountable to our local community on our streets. Would you have that same concern for the military being sent should there be any additional violence that needed additional assistance from Law Enforcement . I mean, as you know, the president had mentioned that as a possibility using the insurrection act to activate the military for this purpose of dealing with civilians in this country. Have you given that much thought . I believe that would be a profound mistake. It is really important that we draw a clear line in our society between policing and military action and we dont use the military on our own people and i feel very strongly about that. Mayor sam liccardo of san jose, thanks so much for your time. Good to see. You great to be with you, kristen. Thank you. Take care. We hope to keep the conversation going in the coming days. We will also talk more about military involvement in particular dealing with protesters or any unrest coming up in the show. Also well talk to an oakland reverend about what we can do as a community and her tho today we watched here on abc 7 the Memorial Service for george floyd in minneapolis. In his eulogy reverend al sharpton delivered a powerful message to the country. Good and gracious god, merciful master, walk with us while we run this race. Speak to us as we lift our voice. Use our hands so that they do not become fists. Change our hearts so that our rage will shift to rehabilitation. All right. One of many voices you just heard there who spoke at the funeral or the Memorial Service attended by so many from regular folks to floyds family to dignitaries. Now, a bay area pastor was watching and listening, pastor Jackie ThompsonSenior Pastor at Allen Temple Baptist church in oakland. Pastor jackie, thanks for joining us today. Thank you for having me. Which speaker and what was it that he or she said resonated with you most . Well, of course, we know reverend al sharpton always delivers a very powerful and a very prophetic message, but honestly i think i was most moved by the recommend reese and the reflections of his family, the words of his brother, the words of his cousin. It was a poignant reminder that although george floyd in his death has become symbolic and an icon for so many across the nation, that at the end of the day what we lost was a human life. A human life that meant something. That had significance. A person that was loved a respected. A person for whom they were not criminalized in the eyes of others. And so i was really moved by the childhood reflections, particularly of his brothers, his cousins during that moment. Ive got to ask you one moment that i thought was so wrong was civil rights attorney who is representing the family, of course, benjamin crump, passionately naming many of the other black victims and he said what we are doing is helping america be america for all americans. How do you think we can each do that . Well, i think one of the ways we can do it is by really being present in this moment. I personally have been pleased to see the diversity and the persons who have been protesting in many ways the death of george floyd. We have the covid pandemic that were dealing with where africanamericans have been disproportionately affected, we have 42 Million People who are unemployed and at a time where people really need each other and we are depending on one another for kindness, a cold and callous and i dare say evil act, so in many ways we see all of our systems being strained and stressed with the reality that africanamericans have lived with, but we see our government being stressed and we see our Health Care System being stressed and this is just a reminder that we have a Carolyn Johnson criminal Justice System that needs to be dealt with. I would encourage everyone to see the image of good in each of us. We are image bearers, we have humans. The second thing i would encourage people to do is find out the local issues where they are, that there are challenges, we thank god for illuminating this issue but right where we live, whether its oakland, no matter where in the bay area, there are justice issues that need to be addressed. And now we have an opportunity to lend our voice, to lend our resources, to lend our that help make us better as a people. And last but certainly not least is just to make sure we stay connected, to make sure that we realize in times of pandemic because i think part of the coronavirus has gotten lost in a lot of this, but we are still dealing with a National Health crisis, a Global Health crisis and its going to take all of us working together to make sure we come out of it safe, healthy and whole. I was just going to mention im glad you mentioned the local angle and, you know, after the memorial is done, the officers have been charged, what can you do . In terms of looking at oakland, right, i know you were born and raised there and that is where you now minister to people. What kind of changes do you think need to happen most immediately in your town . I think what needs to happen most immediately, several things i would like to see. We have an Incredible Police commission that has been working hard to ensure that the policies of the oakland Police Department are what they should be and so we have some initiatives that we hope to see coming up on the ballot and we really need Community Support as well as support of the city council on that commission to make sure there is a voice that is looking at the issues that take place in our city. The second thing i would really love to see is we need people of faith that are willing to come out, they are serving, they are giving food away, as you know we are a drivethru testing site because it was important for us that people who live in east oakland have access to testing, so we lent our parking lot so that people would have direct access within their community, but we need people of faith to come out in front as well in support of these issues. We have an entire generation of young people who are challenged, they need a place to speak, they need voices who will speak on their behalf and they need adults who will listen. So we need the faith community. We are challenged to come outside of our four walls, to really be present with the people that we minister to and to come up with creative partnerbased solutions for the issues we face in this city. We know its going to be a hard time going forward, but it cant just be one entity. It cant just be the city of oakland government, it has to be the faith community, it has to be those who are involved in politics, it has to be those who are actually residents of the city coming together with solutions that serve all of us. Coming together is a great point and what were going to end on. Pastor jackie, thank you so much for joining us today. Best of luck to you. Thank you for having me. Its a blessing. If you enjoyed this conversation were going to have a lot more of it coming up right here because abc 7 is hosting a live hourlong conversation on the issues of race today in about 45 minutes at 4 00. You can watch abc 7 listens, thats 40 minutes if youre counting, abc 7 listens from anger to action, a bay area conversation about race, equality and the path forward. Its a full hour of conversation with an expert panel of guests. You dont want to miss it. All right. 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Were ready. I advise you to call them. Make an appointment so they can tell you how it works. Its a good thing. Reverse Mortgage Funding. Access your equity. Stay in your home. Have peace of mind. This is alteorgefloyds mem americans will still be out in the streets tonight protesting the systemic racism that led to his death, but today feels heavy for another reason. This is the 31st anniversary of another watershed event in history, the Tiananmen Square massacre in china. Students protested across china with Tiananmen Square in beijing being the heart and soul of t they were demanding freedom and democracy. After weeks of increasing tension on june 4th, 1989, the Chinese Government used military tanks and weapons on its own people. Its estimated that 10,000 people died. Joining us to talk about the lessons of Tiananmen Square and why we should care about it here in the u. S. Today are activist helen zia and uc hastingsastings professor hadar havaron. Great to be here. Helen, you see a connection, parallels, if you will, between what happened in Tiananmen Square and whats happening here in the u. S. Today, especially in d. C. And new york. How so . Well, its striking that our president would call in the federal troops which are designed to protect americans against a foreign enemy and all them into washington, d. C. To disrupt, attack, harm unarmed u. S. Civilian protesters who are exercising their First Amendment right guaranteed by the constitution and instead that they should be attacked from above by blackhawk helicopters that were deliberately swooping very low to, you know, disrupt them and rubber bullets that are supposed to be bounced off the ground but instead were being shot directly at protesters and we see around the country that this kind of state violence is happening and it is on the, you squa very act of n power and brute force was being used against civilian unarmed in many cases students who were gathered in the most symbolic largest square in china demanding democracy. I mean, they were standing up for democracy and so what we see here right now, chillingly, is in the midst of this administration attacking china for all of its supposed misdeeds and yet doing pretty much what china did during Tiananmen Square and i think we have a lot of lessons to dissect there. So, hadar, this is where you want to bring you in because you study civil law here and you know a lot about constitutional law as well. Would the president be within his rights if he were to use the military and send them into cities to quell any unrest if it continues as he had threatened earlier this week, although his own current defense secretary is backing off from it . What do you think . So i think we should be very careful here because the answer has a lot to do not just with law but with politics and i really appreciated helens connection between china and the u. S. Precisely because of this. So the president is technically within his authority if he orders the military to do this and it is not completely unheard of in the United States to use military power to quell civilian protests, but the very few times this has happened have all been very dark atrocious times in u. S. History. So it is very, very rare to do this and it is even more rare to do this as an imposition on the states. Typically if the states need military power to quell unrest, protests, riot, call it whatever you want, the states bring in the National Guard. So for the president to come in and override the states and essentially use the u. S. Military against u. S. Civilians is almost unheard of. So technically within his rights, but a very, very bad sign for all of us that it has come to this. Look, we only have about 30 seconds. So i think, helen, im going to give you the final word here in that i also see a parallel in that in Tiananmen Square there was a lot of hope among the young people and we see a lot of hope among young people here now. What can we do to ensure the outcome we want, the progress we want made with everyone being safe. Well, china has a totalitarian dictatorship. The u. S. Still abides by democratic law and thats what the protesters are doing, insisting on that right. I do think as a chineseamerican looking at the helen, im sorry, im g we need to get back together again the three of us and chat together another time. Take care. Thats going to do it for this edition of our interactive show getting answers. Join us at 4 00 when we have our town hall on race. Its going to be an open opening country,ation pauses to opening remember. To honor the life of george floyd. The emotional Memorial Service in minneapolis. The hearse carrying his casket passing the police chief, kneeling. His family sharing stories about big george, about his kindness. Demanding justice in George Floyds name. The reverend al sharptons message to President Trump after that bible photoop. Playing music for 8 minutes, 46 seconds, the amount of time that minneapolis officer had his knee on floyds neck. While here in new york city, thousands gathered for a vigil here. We witnessed the moment they kneel in solidarity, remembering george floyd. A sea of faces, all different backgrounds, families, parents with their children, young people. And George Floyds brother. We entered the park with him