applauding mr mayor, welcome. Thanks. Nice to see you, so youve been in your current job for a little more than six years. Thats right. Right . Going on seven years. Is it everything you thought it would be . laughing and more. And more. Im not sure anying can ite preparyou for being mayor of your home town. I mean youre working with everything from the sorta thing that you seeon good referce, by the way,hats good. I immediately know what youre talking about. Well it is about local government indiana. Right. Some ds it feels more like the wire. Havent had a lotta west wing days, its uslly either parks and rec or the wire or maybe the veep kinda feel of things. You crammed a lot into that one sentence muttering . But the fact that it is your hometown as opposed to just a random city in a random place, its different. Yeah of course. I mean especially a community thats been through what weve been through, you know, this is a city people know us often because they know about notre dame but were really an Industrial City and one that was brought to its knees en our biggest employer studebaker collapsed in the 1960s and so right, still coming back. In many ways yeah, i mean weve had colossal ups and downs, we lost about 1 4 of our population. We were declared a dying city by newsweek. In fact right before you got elected. It was the week i officially got into the race i think. Right newsweek put south bend on the list of americas dying cities and youre thinking why couldnt i have picked another profession . No, actually to me that was a rallying cry. Instead of trying to wish it away i talked about it every day i was campaigning saying hey, this is a kick in the pants, this is a wake up call. What are we going to do about this . And six years later, were growing at the fastest pace we have in more than 1 4 of a century so good things are happening in the city but when you grow up there and especially having grown up not really realizing that abandoned factories or empty houses were unusual, i mean i didnt know that every city didnt have that. That was the normal. Sure, i mean that was just part of the furniture when i was growing up. So to be able to shape a town now that you grew up in, that you care about and be part of its comeback is amazing. Im interested in this idea of how you bring a city back because its hard and we know a number of instances of big cities around the country that have struggled for various reason, im thinking of detroit and oakland as two examples, but we could probably name 20 examples. What sort of thought process you go through, what are the strategies what are the tactics . How do you start back at the beginning and think heres the todo list . What did you do . Well what you dont do is have it all figured out in advance. I remember when i took Office People were saying what industry are we gonna hitch our wagon to . Are we gonna be the nanotech city or the biotech city . And i very quickly realized that clusters of Economic Growth dont happen because a local Government Official decided that they would. They happen because you create the right kind of conditions. When people ask me, you know, are you gonna be a high tech advanced city or are you gonna be focusing on manufacturing, to me thats a false premise and a false choice. Hows that . For example, we just finished up a contract at am general, one of our manufacturers, they make hmmwvs. Theyre also making, or they were making mercedes vehicles, an r class, an suv that sold to the chinese market. So you got American Union autoworkers making a german car going to chinese customers, theyre sending their goods to asia, not their jobs. That contract wrapped up and now were gonna retool that same facility, its gonna be making electric vehicles for a Silicon Valley based firm thats backed by chinese investment. Point is, there are absolutely ways that workers can play a role in a globalized automated world, and i dont mean the role of victim, i mean really play a role that they can succeed. We gotta find those cases, tell those stories and let people know theres nothing to be afraid of. Even as we take all of the displacement and all of the disruption seriously and recognize the impact that its had on working families for the last half century. Now as a mayor trying to bring a city back, but even as a mayor not trying to bring a city back, but just to attract business and im conscious of the bidding war going on now for the second amazon headquarters. Right. Often you have to do things to attract business, youve got to offer economic incentives, youve got to put lots of baubles and beads on, so are you in any position economically to be in competition for, if not amazon, for some of the kinds of Economic Development opportunities, that likesized cities are chasing . We can be yeah. Now we use Economic Development incentives especially when things are close and we think it could put us over the top or break a tie. But i also think its important for local and state leaders to realize you cant succeed by trying to buy jobs. You know companies are made of people and the leaders of those companies are gonna use their judgment to figure out what kind of community they wanna be in. By the time i have the chance to try to pitch some ceo on why they oughta expand in south bend, theyve done the math, they know the cost of land, labor, utilities, taxes, all that. Is it relatively cheap to be there . Were very competitive, yeah, all those dimensions. I like how you changed my cheap to competitive, that was. laughing nice pivot mayor. If youre a low income family trying to get housing in south bend, it doesnt feel cheap. Even though by the standards of one of the coasts or even austin, it probably would come off that way. Yeah but the reality is, if a companys looking to relocate they understand that its an affordable, maybe thats a good word, an affordable place to relocate employees and families. No doubt the schools are good, that thats an attractive part of this. Weve got some challenges in the schools but its one of the most important things that people look at. Yeah. I guess thats my point. Theyve already done the math about the taxes and all that stuff, by the time theyre talking to me, they wanna know if this is the kind of place where they and their colleagues would wanna move, and the kinda place that has the workforce that can take the jobs theyre gonna grow into. You know one thing that is really frustrating is to hear about a lot of open jobs when you know there are people looking for jobs and they havent matched up. So weve gotta establish the quality of place and thats everything from hard infrastructure, weve redone our streetscape to make it more friendly to make sure that pedestrians and bicycles can coexist with cars in a complete street strategy. But also what you might call some of the softer things, just making sure theres enough breweries, making sure that people know that whatever their ethnic background or Sexual Orientation theyre gonna be made to feel comfortable in our city. Welcomed in your community. Absolutely, that all adds up and its just as important as tax incentives or economic policy. Now a lot of big cities, as you know, mr mayor, big cities are in a traditional sense, blue. Yeah. Blue cities. New york and los angeles are blue cities, chicago is a blue city, here in the state of texas as we said today, the biggest cities, houston, dallas, san antonio, austin, are all represented by non partisan mayors but theyre all democrats, nobodys surprised about that, and the cities themselves are blue outposts in what is a red state. Indiana is a conservative state. It is. How is south bend . You know were a relatively democratic city. Our county went about 50 50. Relatively . Yeah, maybe not quite as much as austin but you know its a different kind of democrat though. You know its a blue collar tradition, tends to be a little more socially conservative. And youre getting exactly where i was going with this. So the nature of the politics, and therefore the nature of the people there also probably is a factor in how you approach the city going forward. Yeah, very much so i mean you gotta develop in a way thats true to who we are as a community and at the same time sometimes youre tugging on people to come a little further forward, and thats ok, i mean thats the give and take in politics. But we have similar challenges you know, a very conservative state, i mean mike pence was our governor after all. Indeed. And so a lot of us mayors were coming together trying to make sure that a social conservative agenda under governor pence didnt embarrass us or make us look like we were antigrowth or antifuture. One of the interesting things about you as i see it is you as a mayor alongside other mayors have realized that you have more power to take control of issues that once were the province of states or the country. And climate is, of course, your brand. Its extraordinary, and climate is such a great example because who could think of a more global issue than climate . Right people think climate is a hugely, and yet its profoundly local. The impact is local, whether were talking about dealing with extreme weather events that weve had in south bend or the questions around whether climate played a role in Something Like harvey. The receiving end of it is local for sure. But also the chance to do something about it is local. And our take is that if federal government is unable or unwilling to deal with this, that doesnt mean we just stop and wait for them, whether its climate or we just did paid parental leave in south bend. All i could do, my hands are tied for doing it for the community so i just did it for City Employees and then im urging other employers in the area Public Employees and then youre going to the privates and saying would you yeah exactly were saying why dont you come along and do the same thing. So youre gonna see all kinds of leadership either by example or by policy from cities that are no longer even waiting for our state or National Government to catch up. Because we cant afford to wait. When youre a mayor, you cant, and one thing youll never see is a City Government shut down over Party Politics because we deliver water, and you need water to live. If the water didnt run for 24 hours, society would break down, so we know that we gotta solve problems and get stuff done. And i wish we could figure out a way to make state and National Politics look a little more like the local level. Well the fact is, there is something refreshing about direct democracy in the sense that if youre the mayor and things dont go well, they come to your house. They do, they find you right . They find you. At the grocery, they find you at the gym. And its a lot harder to go to the Governors Mansion and penetrate security or to go to the white house. But you go to the mayors house. No and thats true at every level. Im always telling students, you know, i just testified in congress for the first time in my career, and it took six years in office before i had that chance, it was on an obscure wastewater issue, but to testify in congress, you actually have to be invited. To testify in our city council meetings, you just show up. And ive seen votes go differently because people, some of them not even old enough to vote had decided to involve themselves in that way. So its a very healthy thing. I go out to a school or a Neighborhood Center a few times a year and we do a mayors night out event where anybody that wants to can just sit down with me on their mind. And how helpful is that for you, there are some voters who understandably are cynical about politics and about politicians and they think hes only doing this for show, hes not actually gonna listen, and hes not actually gonna change his mind. He already had his conclusion about an issue before we met, this is essentially just checking a box. Now the truth is sometimes it does change my mind. And people can tell based on the results. This is the other great thing about the local level. Theres no alternative facts, if theres a hole in the road and i failed to fill it in, you can tell. And if we paved it, you can tell. Its not like proving i wasnt born in kenya, you can tell whats going on in your city, right . Ive got a pac right now called hitting home which is trying to do state and National Politics in the same way, making it all about specific stories that people can tell about their own lives because its very hard to lie to somebody about whats going on in their life. Local politics, all day is that way. So even when somebodys beating me up, its usually over something thats actually true and we just disagree about how to deal with it. I wanted to stay on climate for one second before we move on so youre, again, my memory of the earliest mayors to get in the space are two mayors who are no longer in office, Annise Parker in houston was a big one and Michael Nutter in philadelphia was a big one. But those are very democratic cities. As you say, your city is pretty much 50 50. Do you have any pushback from the people who you represent about why are you playing in climate . Maybe climates not actually a thing and oh yeah i get cause as you know, this is a very controversial issue, one of many. But youve chosen to associate yourself with something thats not exactly, in the eyes of some people, apple pie, motherhood. Yeah, i know, i get some stuff on twitter, i get people saying, especially when you have a weather event and youre saying hey this is an example of why weve gotta deal with climate. And then youve got some folks saying well you cant do that, this is the wrong time to do that. Yeah. To me that is the worst form of political correctness. When something bad happens and youre not allowed to talk about what mightve contributed to it. So you just stick up, but i can also tell a story about climate in a place like south bend where, again, were getting into the business of making electric vehicles. One of our very traditional manufacturers in the sheet metal industry, one of their better customers now is in solar, so this is something where we can benefit. In addition to the fact that were very much heard. You know you dont have to be a coastal city or a polar city to be impacted by climate. As we saw recently with 1000 year rainfall we had last year that im afraid probably isnt an 1000 year rainfall anymore. But when you get to that concrete level, again, it becomes a little less about ideology, a little less about party, and a little more about hey, heres a problem, heres how were gonna have to solve it. Are you with me . And we can have adult conversations about that, at least at the local level. Are you able to have an adult conversation with your constituents about race . Thats another one, i know that youve had particular challenges on that front. Youve been an active mayor as far as trying to resolve issues in your community. This has become a problem as we know, in a lot of places, i have this question as to whether its more of a problem today than it was 10 years ago or were just talking about it more, were more aware of it . Yeah. But in fact its been a problem at the same level all along. Talk about that from your perspective as mayor. Its a serious challenge. Yeah. And one of south bends great strengths is were a very diverse city. Were about 25 african american, were about 15 latino thats growing quickly, and like every city, weve had challenges about trust between the Police Department and members of the community. Weve had challenges in terms of making sure that the makeup of our department or our administration reflects the community reflects the community. As a whole, which is incredibly important. And its difficult to have conversations about that because its so emotional, but we also know that if we dont have those conversations, itll come back and bite us later. Weve got to take these things seriously, and frankly its another example where we talk about it as a national issue. But all these things really cash out at the local level, whether were talking about Police Community relations, or just the way people are treated. I mean one thing thats really alarming to me, i spent time with a Youth Task Force that we created, highschoolers from all over the city, its a really great group. Theyre signaling to me that bullying and taunting over race is on the rise in high schools in our city since the election, that is an alarming thing to hear. Ok, stop for a second. Do you want to put that entirely on the president . Because theres a sense that maybe, in his choice of words, the way he has talked about issues, that he has essentially pulled the stopper out of the test tube and allowed the virus to be released. Its not like he singlehandedly did this, the country no but at the same time words matter and Leadership Matters and people are given permission thats what it is. To say things, subtext is text, now. Not only giving permission, but giving a way to do it. When you have a High School Basketball game in indiana and the fans of the predominantly white school taunt the fans of the predominantly latino school by chanting trump, trump, trump at them, you cant say this has nothing to do with our president ial leadership. I wonder what theyre thinking. Now at the same time, you know, what its uncorking is a lot deeper. And weve also got, as we hold each other accountable for doing a better job at things like race relations, weve got to acknowledge that when some of the people in this country used to own some other people in this country, its gonna take more than a couple generations to deal with that and to move on from it. And the reality is, in a lot of cities, the confederate statue and Confederate Monument question is a real source of consternation. Of course it is, its not just about history. Faulkner said that the past is never dead, it isnt even past. And thats very much i think what the confederate statue debate is about. Its being cast in some quarters as a choice between history and what you choose to celebrate. You know you dont forget history, you dont ignore history, but you do choose what you celebrate. Yeah the way we talk about the past has an impact on the present. Thats why these things are so raw, thats why theyre so important. And weve gotta make some commitments to each other. [evan] youre unconflicted about that . Yeah look, you cant just say oh well, its history. Or that confronting it means that were or that confronting it means that were erasing our own history. Right. Its much deeper than that. But what we can do and what we do know is that the way we behave, the way we treat each other the way our policies are organized, have an impact on our ability to conquer this for the future so that you know, my kids and grandkids will, if these issues havent been cured by then will at least be that much further along. And thats why its, i think so painful for a lot of us to feel like were watching our society take a step backwards. I want to talk a little bit about your bio. I want people out in the community, people watching this to feel bad about what they havent achieved relative to what you have achieved. laughing you were the valedictorian of your High School Class . Mm hmm. You went to harvard. Yeah. You were a Rhodes Scholar . Yeah. You are a reservist in the military . Mm hmm. In the. Navy. Which branch, the navy. And then you deployed. Yeah i did a tour in afghanistan in 2014. Right. Yeah. Make me feel bad about myself just sitting here. Its wonderful resume lines but beyond that it shows that you aspire to great things and that youve achieved at a high level. Im not as interested in the education stuff as i am, in particular about the military stuff. Because were at a moment now where there are a lot of people who served in afghanistan and iraq who are cycling back into nonmilitary society that are getting involved in office, running for office or public service, theres been, its like a boom, a little boom of this. Yeah im really energized to see a generation of leaders thats emerging. And both parties yeah. Yeah both parties. Yeah its a generation of post911 vets who served in iraq or afghanistan and one reason that i think its very healthy is that you have a generation of people who, again, politics isnt theoretical for us. I think where politics is at its most dangerous is when you talk about events or whole categories of people as this kind of abstraction thats over there. A lot of people will be cruel in the way they talk about, lets say, immigrants or minorities who would never dream of treating a person that way if they knew them. I think the same thing is whats turned the tables on lgbt issues, theres a lot of people realizing that the way they talked about a group in the abstract wasnt compatible with the way they believed people they know ought to be treated. And for people who served in the military, you know this isnt chess pieces. When you see the president of the United States at the un, you know that you might find yourself carrying a weapon on foreign soil again because of that. Youre very much aware that your life literally depends on the decisions made by politicians. And so i think it just adds a level of urgency, a level of seriousness. The other thing is, i actually think, in a polarized era, it furnishes a way to cut across some of these divisions that shouldnt be dividing us. So just in the way that in the wwii generation, the navy was a place where somebody like a Young John F Kennedy could find himself on more or less equal terms with a son of a farmer or a Southern African american that he might not have met otherwise. Right. And then we got to a period where the reverse was the case. Where the military got really skewed toward some classes and not others. Today i think thats headed back in the right direction. And it means that i think veterans, i certainly find that one of the best chances i have of having a great conversation with an ideological conservative is if we begin by relating over a common experience. When i was downrange, nobody cared, when we were getting into a vehicle that i was driving or guarding, nobody cared whether i was going home to a girlfriend or boyfriend or where my father had immigrated from. They wanted to know if i knew how to use my rifle and if id studied the route intelligence right. And that kind of clarity of thinking can be very healthy and i think it can do a lot of good if more of these vets get elected. A difference, at least for me in my perception of this is that a number of vets are coming back to run or get involved are self identifying as democrats. [pete] yeah. Thats not to say that there were not veterans who self identified as democrats previously, but it just seems like thats an interesting aspect to this. I think about jason kander, weve talked about jason kander who ran for the senate in missouri. Here in texas theres a decorated veteran named mj hegar whos running for congress who wrote a book called shoot like a girl, it is a bestseller. These are all democrats. Right. And i know the democrats have felt, over the years something to prove on this question of toughness in large measure, because republicans have made the assumption that democrats are weak on the military, weak on National Service or military service, i just think its an interesting level up. Yeah. Right that you now have this situation where youve got these people running i think theres no reason why democrats shouldnt be a Strong National security party. I think all of the ideologies and Party Affiliations got scrambled really, probably from the moment that George W Bush decided to invade iraq. This idea that democrats belong any less in National Security or are represented any less among people from the veteran world who are stepping up. I think we can finally say thats been put to bed. Thats just wrong its time to talk about the future. Thats just wrong. So on this question of the future. You sought unsuccessfully the chair position at the Democrat National committee. Youre one of 11 candidates. You were well thought of, written about very favorably. You came out of it with your reputation intact, in fact, arguably more people knew about you afterwards than did before, and people thought based on how you ran, how you conducted yourself, and the things you said, that you had a future. It may turn out that it was better not to get the job. laughing right . Well its a really difficult job. Well look, tom perez looks miserable. Have you seen him recently . Ever time i see him he looks like he wants to go home for the night. Yeah no, i saw him not long ago and you know hes doing tremendous, hes working tremendously hard [evan] yeah. In a job that is just structurally very difficult. Well theres a rebuild of a sort going on at the dnc isnt there . There ought to be. I mean the partys gotta retool, look, we woulda been in trouble, a lot of people think democrats are in trouble cause we lost the white house, one of the things i was arguing when i was running for dnc chair is, we would be in big trouble as a party even had we won the white house. Especially as a party thats finally beginning to realize that we cant treat the presidency like its the only office that matters. Look at whats going on in the state houses. Our counterparts on the other side of the aisle patiently and cleverly, you know some of it started here in texas with School Board Races in the 80s. Right. The untold story, mr mayor of the obama years, is it was makeamericaredagain, right . How many governorships went republican . How many state house races went republican . We lost Something Like 1000 seats. Right, right. And weve got to do a better job there, we gotta pay closer attention to the different dynamics, and its a signal that the partys in trouble, now, i dont think were in trouble cause our values are wrong. On the contrary, if you survey americans, theyre more and more believing things that are in line with what the Democratic Party has always stood for. I also dont think its cause we dont have a message. I know people say that, to me our message is very clear, were the party that supports and defends the ordinary people going about their everyday lives. Do you think thats agreed upon by everybody in the party . Your party is a bit at war now. The bernie wing and the hillary wing, that could be exaggerated. Yeah. But again, having witnessed the dnc race up close, i can tell you, that divide is a thing. It is a thing but the fact that those wings are named after people rather than ideas i think is one example of how this thats just lazy journalism on my part. laughing im copping to it. You know that, there were these factions that developed but its not really necessarily something we cant transcend by returning to the core values that make us democrats. And i think theres a way to talk about fairness for example that demonstrates why its a false choice to suggest that we can either speak to the working class in parts of the country like where im from, or we can be true to our bedrock commitments that give us our moral authority on racial and social justice. The idea that thats an either or. It could be both and. It has to be a both and, the idea thats either or is crazy. But weve got to return to a vocabulary of fairness. Yep. And think about freedom and remember that we cant leave the idea of freedom to the other side, especially when, in my personal experience, my freedom has been better secured by things that the Democratic Party or progressives have been able to do. I think a lot more americans are more free to do things like, not just live a good life but maybe leave a workplace theyve had enough of to start a business, an entrepreneurial, because of the Affordable Care act. Weve done a lot to make people more free. If we start thinking about it in those terms i think well find, on our side of the aisle, weve got more in common than you might believe when you read the insider political press. So we got about a minute left. I want to know what you plan to do next because there are people who are saying on your behalf, youre not saying it yourself necessarily, but there are people, well why not, mayor b for president . Or for governor or for senator, you know, something big. But president has come up. The next thing im gonna do is get on a plane and go back to south bend where ok im the mayor. laughing ah im gonna push you to actually answer it. I mean look, a day job like mayor isnt a job that you have just so you can get another job. It is immediate, its important and it commands just about all my attention. To the extent that i have any attention left professionally, politically im putting my energy into hitting home this package but you do have ambitions beyond being mayor . I cant be a mayor forever. Right. I know that. And i know that ill have a decision to make in 2019 about whether to seek a third term or not. But you will serve out this term. Thats my plan. For sure . Absolutely. Ok. Also say that every compelling opportunity that ive had in politics has come as a bit of a surprise. I didnt know that id run for state treasurer in 2010 in indiana which is how i cut my teeth. I certainly didnt know that i was gonna be running for dnc, nobody sits on their mothers knee and says i wanna be a party chair one day, right . Yes, no one whos well balanced. laughing but it happened because there was this moment where i saw, i realized that what was needed and what i was about, and what i had to offer, there was this fit between them, thats how i became mayor too. And i think anyone looking for a job opportunity ought to be on the lookout for that. Ok mr mayor, good luck with everything that you do and good luck to you personally and maybe if you make a new career path for yourself youll come back and talk to us again. Thank you, its a pleasure. All right mr mayor, thanks very much. Pete buttigieg, thank you, good. applauding wed love to have you join us in the studio. Visit our website at klru. Org overheard to find invitations to interviews, q as with our audience and guests, and an archive of past episodes. We had just enough money in the budget to do one poll, so we did that while we were running. And one of the things pollsters do is they test all your attributes, so if you knew that pete was whatever, was in the navy, would you be more or less likely to vote, you know, all the things in my bio. And one of the things they tested is if you knew that i was 28. 9 years old. And they showed me in the results, the older the voter was, the more likely they were to think that that was a positive. To think that that was a positive. [ midtempo music plays ] [ paper rustling ] [ dog barking ] [ dog whines ] [ wind whistling ] [ wind whistling ] [ engine turns over ] [ engine revs ] [ engine shuts off ] [ rainfall, footsteps splashing ] Film School Shorts is made possible by a grant from maurice kanbar, celebrating the vitality and power of the moving image, and by the members of kqed. oooooo . vivvvvhh l . . [country music] male narrator memphis, tennessee. It has been written if music were religion, then memphis would be jerusalem and sun studio its most sacred shrine. female singing you walk into the room and i start crumbling male narrator and you are here with the country duo. You do that to me and all the girls around you think youre somethin well, im hopin. Hey, im kasey rausch and along with my bandmate Marco Pascolini were the country duo. Super excited to be here at the legendary sun studio, the birthplace of rock n roll. Im a native of kansas city, missouri. Parkville, missouri actually, little river town that kansas city has now usurped. And im at least a fourthgeneration musician and so, ive grown up all my life surrounded by music,