Lyle lovett, welcome. Evan, thanks for having me. Nice to be back with you. Congratulations on 16 years of the show well, thanks very much. Cant believe it, time goes fast. It was first season that we first spoke. Yeah, thats right, you came back again one more time, and now here you are again, so see you in eight years. Thats how that goes, i think, right . Or Something Like that. Yeah. So were sitting here today against the backdrop of this awful weather in houston, flooding. A community that you know well, care enormously about. You were born in memorial hospital, right, in houston . In methodist hospital. Methodist hospital, pardon me, in houston, and you grew up in houston and around houston, and you still live in the still live here, still live right where i grew up. Yeah, i know its, ive been keeping an eye on the, and been on the phone all day back home. Lots of folks are underwater, where we are in north Harris County, were on high enough ground that were okay, but things are really wet. I thought we could talk about houston just to send positive vibes their way because you had so much of your life, as we said, there and who you are is in some respects, like all of us, a byproduct of where you were and how you grew up. Yeah, i think thats true. So, what was it about that community that you remember the best when you were in houston as a kid growing up . Oh, gosh, well, you know, just my parents and my family, and thats, ive always, ive lived in our family home, property thats been in our family since the early 1850s. And so my immediate family, my mom and dad, my extended family, the history of our family there, its all meant something to me, and i can still walk out in the pasture and stand under an oak tree that i stood under with my grandpa when i was a little boy, and that means something to me. The community you live in and have lived in for a number of years is actually connected back to somebody who youre related to, right . Well, exactly, my grandfathers grandfather. So my great, great grandfather, adam klein was his name, and he left germany in 1848 and found his way to north Harris County in the early 1850s after coming to the United States and going to San Francisco the county is named for him. Well, and its an unincorporated area of north Harris County, but the School District is, has our family name, klein, yeah. And so it isnt incorporated, but, but the areas known as klein, and yeah, im just proud to be part of the heritage there. And one of the things about people who are successful spending their childhood and you know kinda growing up, education years, go to colleges, you did texas a m, you lived in texas as a, you know, preadult. Become an adult, they become successful in the creative professions, often they leave. They go to one of the two coasts, but you stayed in texas. Well, and staying is, staying is easy when youre gone all the time. Oh well, all right, okay. laughing explain. In the music business, i go to the music Business Centers to nashville and to los angeles and new york to work and then i travel on the road. You know, i still make a living playing perform all over the country and all over the world right . Playing concerts, so im home at least half the time. Still play 100 to 110 dates a year my goodness. Which i, thankfully, im able to do and still love to do, but, so you know, living at home, sometimes i feel like its a, its a theoretical idea, but actually, when im home, im really home. Whatd your dad do, whatd your mom do . My dad ended up in marketing. My dad started out when he was 17 in the mail room. The old humble company, his father got him a job with the company, his father worked at the refinery in baytown. My mom started when she was 17 with the company. My moms uncle, alvin klein was his name, he worked there. He was the land lease man, and he got her a job there, and so my mom retired with 40 years and dad with 37, and they met working for the old humble company, so if it werent for big oil, i wouldnt be here. laughing wasnt expecting you to say that, but thats okay. Its okay, its honorable. Your moms work at exxon somehow led you to think about journalism at texas a m, as the story goes . My mom was a secretary the first 20 years of her career, and the last 20 years of her career, she, she became a training specialist, first started training secretaries and then training, implementing all sorts of training that the company wanted her to do, but she, one of her last jobs as a secretary was in the Publication Department at exxon, and i used to love to go up to the, they had to work weekends a lot of times, and id go up to the building with them, which i always loved, you know, trying to figure out the banks of elevators. That was great fun, can run around the building all by myself and how to work dictaphones. There was nobody attending the desks, and there was just a dictaphone waiting. You had the run of the place that was my first recording experience. Mischief was going to happen, that was it. Thats right but mom worked in the Publications Department so i got to know the writers and the editors and the photographers, the art director, the art director, richard pane, painted one of my. I grew up working in motorcycle shops and racing off road motorcycles, and he painted, did a custom paint job on my first helmet, which i still have and im really proud of. But i got to know those guys and really admired their, you know, the way they thought and the way they talked, and way they looked at the world. So you alluded to the fact that you are on the road a lot. You really are pretty much a touring musician at this point. Thats kinda what you do. You havent put a record, you havent put a record out, if i do the math right, is it five years . Its been five years, yeah, 2012 was my last release, and it was a, it was the last. It was the last record on my record deal with mca and curb records, which i signed back in 1985. My first record came out in 1986. I intend to record again, ive just been trying to figure out the business ive been in and figure out how i wanna do it now that im not, you know, not obligated to anybody bound by anybody, but of course, the business has changed, changed a million times in the last number of years. I wondered actually if the decision not to record had more to do with your realizing that product itself is less interesting than it used to be or less profitable than it used to be and that actually, what you like to do is to perform, so why not just lean into that . Well, and i think its important to, to get your new work out to people who are interested in it, but its really been more about, for me its really been more about wanting to make a good record that i wanna make, and you know, ive just been writing songs. Youve got songs that youre sort of keeping over here. You know, and one thing that i used to do all the time, speaking of the way its changed, and ive been trying to figure out, really ive been just trying to keep up with how its changing so quickly. Its just a dynamic thing well, as you pointed out, first record was 86. I mean, i remember pontiac is the one that was first on mind, pontiacs actually 30 years ago this, it was 87, right . Was pontiac the next year . We recorded in 87, i think it came out early 88. But its basically 30 years, so you think about whats happened in the world and in your world from that point to this point, it really is, its 10 revolutions. Well, it certainly is, and i was very lucky to go nashville at a good time and a time when nashville was interested in taking a chance on sort of people that might not be mainstream. So i was, the timing of all that was very lucky for me, and all the people that supported me at mca and curb records and my management over the years. I mean i had a great team of people helping me and still do. Im just not in a record deal right now. When you say that you need to keep up, or youre trying to figure out what to keep up, what parts of it are actually harder to wrestle with these days . Well, just the, its just different. Delivery of music is different. The expectation of the public in terms of how the public wants to receive music. I still feel like a lot of my audience still enjoys, like as i do, i still like to hold an lp in my hand and read the credits. An lp how about that . Look at that, its the stone age but now, it seems that all you have to do is sort of think of a song you wanna hear, and it just starts playing magically. laughing right, or in a literal sense, you think, oh, that song, and then you go to one of the Many Services that will allow your music to be ripped off for free, and you kinda go boop, and there it is. Well, and i dont consider it to be ripped off, necessarily, i mean, we all, we sort of seek out the easiest ways, most convenient ways, to get the things we want. I do think that quality, my biggest, my biggest fear in some of the digital delivery and the new ways we listen to music is that you dont get the full resolution. You dont hear every minute and every hour and every sort of painstaking decision that you make in the Recording Studio were not hearing it the way you wanted us to hear it. Well, exactly, and thats the thing that worries me the most about it, but in terms of people hearing music for free or not, ive never been the kind of act that sells so many records that im, that im making a living from my records. Ive always made a living playing on the road. Thankfully, i sold enough records to be able to keep my job at the Record Company, and im grateful for that because that job at the Record Company enabled me to go out on the road. And the fact is those records produced music that in turn gave people the means or the motivation to want to come see you. Exactly, and so as long as people come to my shows, i couldnt be happier. But youre correct that youre not a typical recording artist over the years whose bread and butter was number one record, number one record, number one record, that it was all about, is there a single on this record, or what have you, right . Exactly. My producer at mca records, tony brown, who was in charge of a r and really was my champion at mca, he stuck up for me and really helped my career. He would look at me sideways sometimes, and hed say, you know, you may not cross over, but you might cross under. laughing cross under. Didnt happen, fortunately. So im happier, no im happy to cross under. I feel like my career has been sort of just sort of below the radar, but it is, im just so grateful to the audience for continuing to come to the shows we do. We played last night at acl live out of a sold out house, even with the bad weather, we had an 85 attendance last night. You coming to town is still a big deal. Well, its so nice to, people support us, and we played the nicest, nicest thousand to 25 hundred seat theaters in the country and the world. Right, and i know that in part because you have gotten into a habit of taking photographs of these empty venues that you perform in. I mean, im one of the 35 thousand people who follow you on instagram, speaking of the new world of technology, right, imagine that. This is something that we couldnt have imagined just a couple years ago. Exactly. And you post photographs, it seems like every show, but maybe almost every show, of the venue or of people youre performing with or what have you, and its a way to keep up. Its a sense of like a road diary of sorts, right . [lyle] exactly. I can see that youre playing in some of the most beautiful, if not the biggest, theyre the most beautiful venues around the country, and you seem to still get a huge kick out of doing that. I do, i love getting to play. I love taking pictures of it. You know, john hagen whos played cello with me since 1979, john started taking pictures of the venues at soundcheck, just sitting his, setting his camera on the edge of the stage and doing a timer, yes. With a timer. And so, i thought his pictures were great, and so i tried doing it too with a tripod, and so i just kept doing it. People get to come see you, you estimated how many dates would you say a year youre on the road . Oh, 100, 110. 100, 110. More than it used to be or as many . No about the same. About the same, hasnt changed. So there is you, theres you and a large band, theres you and an array of friends. I mean, john hiatt seems to be at your side almost like glued to you or you to him, which is great, to see the two of you guys together is amazing. Its a different configuration. You dont just go out at one flavor. You have many flavors. You know, and its, i can kinda only sustain the large band in the summertime when were able to play, play some outdoor venues and the kinda dates that can support the budget. I mean, when i have the large band out, were 30 people on the road with crew. [evan] i mean, large is large in that case. Well, it feels large to me, and were 14 on stage, but were two trucks and three buses, and its, you know, we carry our own sound and lights. Its a big production. It is a big production. And hagen, you say, youve played with, i mean, i know the name john hagen because if you live in this community or you go see you, you know john hagen. Amazing cello player, great fixture on the scene. Others in that band have also been with you for a long time. I met Matt Rollings who plays, just the most brilliant piano player in the world. I me 1years old. Ray herndon who plays guitar in the large band was in the same band matt was in, Jay David Sloan and the rogues was the name of the band. They were the house band at a club in phoenix called mr. Luckys. Ive played with him, i made my first recordings with them. Billy williams, the music director in that band, produced all my records through, oh, just the last couple. Hes 80 now, and he decided when he was in his 70s, he might slow down a little bit. Francine reed and i have been singing together since 1984. Matt rollings introduced me to francine in 1984. Viktor krauss, hes played bass with me since 1994. Buckweeds played steel with me since 1993. What is the secret to keeping a band like that and the personalities that you just described together . You know, theyre all solo artists. Theyre all solo artist, and im just grateful that, that they wanna, they kinda put aside what they normally do for a couple of months every summer and come on the road with me, and im just, i think its just because were friends and because those earlier recordings were part of the beginning for all of us, really. Well, and honestly, they left a mark as they say, right, i mean the fact is those earlier recordings are not just anybodys earlier recordings. They left an imprint on a lot of people, and when they think about you, they think first about those early recordings, its had some longevity to it. Well thank you, thank you. And youre good with that. Well, im just grateful to, you know, theres not a bigger privilege in the world than being able to do something you love to do, and we serve at the pleasure of the public, and to be supported by people that wouldnt have to support you but just choose to, you know, that is a very uplifting they could spend their money on anything else, but they spend it on you. Tell me about hiatt, so why have you and hiatt been such a good pairing because it is been a long time that you guys have been out on the road together, right . In 1989, bill ivey from the Country Music foundation, bill ivey went on the run the National Endowment for the arts, wonderful fellow. He put together a songwriter in the round group, which is a typical format in nashville, among, you know, places like the bluebird cafe. Its a format that kinda came about, well its just an extension of people coming over to the house and sitting around trading songs. And its an old saw of sorts in the touring music business that theyll be like a package tour, and they get a bunch of people together, and they might play individually, but then they all play kind of in a group. In nashville, theres so many wonderful songwriters that really dont perform, dont play out, but theyll get together a few times a year and do a circle at a place like the bluebird. Bill ivey put a show like that together in that spirit for the old marlboro Country Music festival in new york, and it was guy clark, joey lee, john hiatt, and me. God, look at that, thats like the Mount Rushmore of hip it was so fun, it was like three Mount Rushmore and whats he doing here is the way i felt. Are you talking about you . Yeah, exactly. I was about to say, dont talk about joey lee that way. You know you mean you, okay. No, me, i mean me. I mean me, i just felt, you know, like the youngster just sort of hanging on and trying to soak up every word and every song. And we did half a dozen shows over about a years time, and then the four of us would continue to get together over the years. In 2003, we did our first tour as a tour instead of a special occasion and just kinda kept on. It evolved into john and me doing that. Guy started not traveling quite as much, and its a format that i really enjoy because its sort of like this. Its a conversation on stage and with two people, its sort of a continuous conversation thats interrupted by the occasional song, so. Right, its more conversation with music as opposed to music with conversation. So you describe yourself as a young guy back then. Right. If i do my math, thank you. Speaking of math, you are about to turn 60. I am, this year, later this year, and im so grateful, im so glad. To whom . To have made it this long. To the cosmos, right, actually . Well, yeah, to the good lord, really, is what i mean. Im very immature, and laughing and that seems like a big number, it just doesnt feel well it does, well you know the whole notion that 60 is the new 80 or 80 is the new, i mean, thats, youre a young 60, lets just say, but here you are, again, back to this 110 dates on the road. Theres a certain amount of wear and tear on you, road miles and at a certain point youll probably think, i could be doing something else. Well i wonder, yeah, right now i cant think but it hasnt, you dont feel any less physically up to it now . No, i dont, i dont, and that could be, you know, the, who was it, the cosmos . Cosmos. The cosmos could remind me, but im trying to please everybody to referring to it as the cosmos who understand some of it. No, i feel great, and i still love playing. At this point in your life, having done this for a long time, do you find that your own interest in the music of other people has changed . I mean, one of the things, we were talking about how the world has changed and things have changed. We have access to a lot more music, all of us do, not just civilians but people like you, and i just wonder if youre now consuming music differently or consuming different peoples music today. Well, i am consuming music differently. If i hear a song and im curious about it, i look it up, i find it online, i find it on itunes, i download it, i play it on my computer, and i think, this would sound a lot better on my stereo. Theres still that problem, right, yeah. No, im as guilty as anybody, but are you trying a lot of new stuff out these days . Do you listen to other people you havent heard of, or do you find that you go back to the stuff that you always liked . You know, i. Yes, i listen to my friends. I go back to music that ive always liked, but i do really try to keep up with my friends and people that i know who are making records, like robert keen and warren hood here in austins making wonderful recordings. But yeah, everything. First of all, everybody has a band now, everybody. Everybody makes records. All these folks, they all have one. laughing the barriers to entry have been obliterated, right . But yeah, no, but still. New music is so much easier to search now. Yeah, and the fact is that because of, we said, technology, you have access to it so much more easily that maybe our, maybe there was always this much music before, maybe not, but we just didnt realize that we could get access to it well, exactly, right. So you said you had written some songs, and youre gonna think at some point about making a record. Oh, i do, yes. How is that going to be any different than what weve heard from you in the past . Are there any fundamental differences creatively to the kind of music youre gonna make next, or is it gonna be very familiar, given what youve done before . Im limited by myself, im limited well talk about that. Well, no i think itll sound, but my next record will sound like one of my records. laughing for better or for worse. I like that. For better or for worse. I do love working with the people ive worked with over the years. You know, Matt Rollings will play on it if he agrees to, and ray hernond, the guys that i play live with, Viktor Krauss will play in it, russ kunkel will play drums. Nathaniel kunkel, russ son, has been our, my recording engineer since the early 90s, since he was 21 years old. I love the chance to get together with my Recording Team and have that experience. So itll literally be putting back together. Well, its, well, its taking the band, asking the band to step off the bus and go in the studio is really what itll be. Anything that youre thinking you wanna do that you havent done before in terms of recording music or anything else . You still have, do you have anything kinda coming up or any aspirations that you wanna realize that you havent done yet . Do i, what i, does it seem unambitious to say, you know, im really happy doing what im doing . Well, no, its refreshing. Most people would say it, and i would say it was insincere, but in your case, i actually sorta believe it. Well, no, i am very, i just wanna be able to keep doing it, and the biggest thrill about being able to do something that you love to do is to do it with people who are talented and people who you enjoy being around and enjoy working with, you know, when i stand in the middle of the large band, yep. We might play the same song that we played the night before, but the approach to the song might be completely different one night compared to another. The solos that, ive never asked the guys in the band to play solos note for note that are on, that are on a recording. Ive always tried to give them some creative leeway in a Live Performance to be able to have a little fun, and to stand in the middle of the band, you can hear musical conversations going on, and it delights me to no end just to hear how the guys are responding to each other from one night to the next, and thats what i love about playing live is because it really is, its not just a reproduction of something youve done before it really is, you know, music is alive, and it makes you feel alive, and when it makes us feel alive, if that, when the audience feels alive, then it really makes us feel alive on stage. Right, and the fact is that if we were to just hear the record produced note for note on stage, it wouldnt be interesting, from our perspective on this. I mean, im glad to know that its interesting for you for that to be the case, but from our perspective, just to hear the record, we could just put it on and not come to a show. What are you saying about my records . Well, im saying. laughing im saying that theyre great, but when we come see you, when we pay money and make the trouble to come see you, we want there to be something a little bit different, and thats good, good for you, good for us. Its important that. Its important to me that. I want the folks in the audience to know that we are right there right then, and what were doing on august 27th, 2017 is unique to that day. Right, and that its for them and not for anybody else. Its fun to see you still enjoying yourself. Im glad to, im glad to check back in with you, and youre always allowed. Evan, congratulations on your show, and its so good to see you. Good. Thank you all for coming. And congratulations on now 30 plus years of making records, and i hope you get to keep doing it. Thank you, man. Good, lyle lovett, thanks so much. audience cheering wed love to have you join us in the studio. Visit our website at klru. Org overheard to find invitations to interviews, q and as with our audience and guests, and an archive of past episodes. No matter whats going on in the world, when were alone in our homes at night, you know, we have to take care of each other and our families, and those are the, those are the things that i enjoy writing about, and those are the moments in my life that i enjoy thinking about. [narrator] funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by the Alice Kleberg reynolds foundation, hillco partners, a texas Government Affairs consultancy, and by claire and carl stuart. soft electronic music steves while the coast is croatias main draw, some of its best attractions are inland. Were delving into the croatian heartland. One of europes top natural wonders is Plitvice Lakes national park. Imagine Niagara Falls sliced and diced and sprinkled over a vast and heavily forested canyon. Its a lush and unforgettable valley of 16 terraced lakes laced together by waterfalls and miles of pleasant plank walks. Boats glide visitors into the heart of the park. Countless cascades and water thats strangely clear yet full of vibrant colors make plitvice a misty natural wonderland. Fish seem to know theres not a hook for miles. Carefully maintained trails and boardwalks let you get intimate with the wonder of the place. Observant nature lovers can choose from hundreds of flower types to assemble a photographic bouquet. The stony formations drip down like the foliage because the grass and moss both direct the flow of the water and provide a kind of scaffolding for the slow and steady calcification process. Naturalists call plitvice a perfect storm of geological, climatic, and biological features. The magic ingredient calcium carbonate, a Mineral Deposit from the limestone that gets dissolved into the water, then redeposited, continually breaking down natural travertine dams and building up new ones. ] hello and welcome. Im kamla. My guest today is filmmaker paul mcguigan. He has a new film out called film stars dont die in liverpool. He has also directed quite a few films and tv series. One of them is bbcs sherlock, the one that got us all hooked into sherlock holmes. But first well take a look at a trailer from the film, and then our interview with filmmaker paul mcguigan. Hey, youre the nextdoor guy, right . Which makes you the girl next door. [ giggles ] whats her name . Gloria grahame. Big name in blackandwhite films. Never heard of her