The region , despite pressure the region, despite pressure from more than 80 of his mps to do so. Instead rishi sunak is backing what hes calling specific pauses in the conflict to allow for the Safe Delivery of aid into the region. Five british people are still among more than 200 being held hostage in gaza. In gaza. The first and most important principle is that israel has the right to defend itself under International Law. Our support for that position is absolute and unchanged. But from the start , we have also said that we start, we have also said that we do want british nationals to be able to leave gaza and that we want hostages to be released and for humanitarian aid to get in. And we recognise that for all of that to happen, there has to be a safer environment , which of a safer environment, which of course necessitates specific pauses as distinct from a ceasefire. Ceasefire. Will the u n ceasefire. Will the un secretary general has rejected israels accusation that he justified the terror attacks carried out by hamas on october the seventh. Yesterday, Antonio Guterres told the Security Council its important to recognise the attacks by hamas did not happen in a vacuum. Well in response to that, israels un ambassador condemned his speech as shocking and has called on the man to resign. The uk government also resign. The uk government also criticised the comments, saying they were undiplomatic. Antonio they were undiplomatic. Antonio guterres himself has defended the speech, saying it has been misinterpreted and i am shocked by the misrepresentation by some of my statement yesterday in the Security Council , as if. As if Security Council, as if. As if i was justifying acts. Of terror was justifying acts. Of terror by hamas. By hamas. This is false. It was the opposite in the beginning of my intervention yesterday, i clearly stated and i quote, i have condemned unequivocally the horrifying and unprecedented. Horrifying and unprecedented. 7th october acts of terror by hamas in israel. Now, a former South Wales Police officer has been jailed for life with a minimum term to serve of 12 years for Sexual Offences against children. Lewis offences against children. Lewis edwards used fake social media accounts and posed as a teenager to groom more than 200 young girls online when he forced his victims to take indecent videos and images of themselves , then and images of themselves, then using the material to blackmail them in sentencing, the judge described his behaviour as cruel and sadistic and said he posed a dangerous risk to children. Head of the mets Online Investigation Team , detective superintendent team, detective superintendent tracey rankin, said the force was quick to respond. Was quick to respond. It was just devastating to know that that person was one of our own at the time of the offending and im really grateful of the swift nature that he failed to stop being a Police Officer because, you know, he was he was sacked, which im really you know, that sends a very strong message that, you know, we wont tolerate this sort of activity and behaviour. Meanwhile the two metropolitan Police Officers have been sacked after being found guilty of gross misconduct over the stop and searches of two black athletes. Two black athletes. Ricardo dos santos and his partner Bianca Williams were stopped in their car in london in 2020. Nothing was found and no arrests were made. But the no arrests were made. But the pair publicly accused the force of racial profiling. Five officers were investigated. All officers were investigated. All officers were investigated. All of them denied wrongdoing. But the panel upheld complaints against pc Jonathan Clapham and sam franks residence. Agents sam franks residence. Agents affected by flooding say the offer of a government for grant storm babet is too little too late. The government is offering a £500 package towards Council Tax Relief or funding towards repairs and flood protection. It says the money will be available to those of experienced, exceptional localised flooding amid the extreme weather conditions. While flood hit residents say the amount is not enough, with Higher Energy and living costs on the rise. Gb living costs on the rise. Gb news presenter anne diamond has been made an obe at Buckingham Palace today. The journalist palace today. The journalist received the honour from his majesty for king charles her services to Public Health and charity. It recognised her campaigning efforts to for research into covid deaths following the death of her own son. Sebast from sudden infant death syndrome. She said in june that shed received news of the honour on the same day she was diagnosed with Breast Cancer with gb news across the uk on tv , in your car, on Digital Radio and on your Smart Speaker by saying, play gb news. This is britains news channel. Britains news channel. Thanks for that, polly and Michelle Dewberry with you till 7 00 tonight alongside the columnist for the mail on sunday, Peter Hitchens and the co founder of know just about, say, the co founder of novara media. But he is not this is definitely i dont think youve ever been mistaken for this guy before. Matthew stadlen is alongside me. Im so sorry. I was on autopilot then. I must have an in boston on my brain. But no, this is matthew. Very but no, this is matthew. Very delighted to introduce you back to the panel tonight. You know, the drill, dont you, as well, on dewbs co its not just about us three or aaron. Quite frankly. Its about you guys at home as well. Whats on your mind tonight . You can get in touch with me all the usual ways. Is how ways. Vaiews gbnews. Com is how you get hold of me. Or you can tweet me at gb news. Of course. Top story in town today, the israel hamas war continues , israel hamas war continues, renews a frequently feel like i say this, but things do seem to be getting worse by the day. So it seems there do seem to be, though. The calls for ceasefire are getting loudly and loud , are getting loudly and loud, called by various different parties. Now called by various different parties. Now has called by various different parties. Now has been the next parties. Now has been the next step that is required. And i have to say that view does divide opinion. I shall throw it to my panel first and foremost, Peter Hitchens on this side situation about whether or not the ceasefire now calls for ceasefire is the next right step. Is it . Well, i dont think israel should ever have launched a bombardment of gaza. I think its one of the biggest mistakes theyve ever made. Its completely drawn attention away from the origin of this whole event, the horrible pogrom. On october the seventh when hamas burst into into israel and slaughtered innocent people. I dont know why they did it. Its dont know why they did it. Its completely counterproductive. It completely counterproductive. It wont destroy hamas. It will wont destroy hamas. It will inevitably , as always happens, inevitably, as always happens, when you bomb populated cities, it will kill innocent people and it will kill innocent people and it wont do any military good either. So im baffled as to why they ever started and if they would stop it, it cant be would only stop it, it cant be a good thing. And i speak as probably the most militantly pro israel youre pro israel person youre likely to of sundays. To meet in a month of sundays. So i just cannot see why they dont stop it. Well, ive got a lot to say in response to that. But before i do, your thoughts on i do, matt, your thoughts on firstly what just said. Firstly what peter just said. I mean, i dont always agree with peter. Weve certainly clashed on social media in the past. Ive interviewed him lots of times. But i think on this hes talking good sense and ill tell you why. I think hes talking good sense because i think was obvious early think it was obvious early hamass aim to lure israel into killing civilians and potentially actually to go in in this ground offensive as well. This ground offensive as well. Heaven knows how many Israeli Soldiers will lose their lives if they were to do that. We know that thousands of palestinians, many of them civilians, have already lost their lives as a consequence of the israeli bombing. And im not sure, even if they were successful in destroying the hamas military leadership , whether actually in leadership, whether actually in the long run, this isnt going to create significant more hate, if thats possible , within gaza. If thats possible, within gaza. And one further thing to say about this and this is not to denigrate for a single second from the mediaeval barbarism that we witnessed in israel on october the seventh. It was it was unspeakable. Im jewish. My grandparents were forced out of their houses in vienna from their houses in vienna from their from their apartments in vienna in the 1930 by hitler. So clearly, not just as a human clearly, notjust as a human being, but as a jew. I have enormous empathy for the horrors that we have witnessed in israel. But remember that the Political Leadership of hamas , Political Leadership of hamas, at least some of them, are cosily sitting in qatar. So israel isnt able to reach them. Im not sure that by bombing gaza into smithereens , israel is gaza into smithereens, israel is actually working in its own National Self interest. You see, i want to invite you guysin you see, i want to invite you guys in at home at this point because i know my audience well enough. I speak to you guys every day, and i can almost hear you shouting from your sofa. Many people will be shouting that they felt that every Single Person in the land with a brain cell would conclude and concede that actually what hamas did. I agree with you, theyre barbaric. Is horrendous. What happened on october the seventh . Its almost beyond comprehend in what they did. But because they did that, there will be many of my audience that say it is, of course, regrettable that the acts have to be taken in response. Yes, but you cant response. Yes, but you cant just what do you do . Just sit there and go, you know what . Youve come in, youve come in on your paragliders, youve burst through your fences, youve youve grabbed people in their you grabbed people their homes. You grabbed people off what . Off festivals. You know what . Hey, dont worry about it. Hey, just dont worry about it. Theyve got to do something. Theres no logic what you theres no logic in what you say. The bombing gaza, do you say. The by bombing gaza, do you think going to do think youre going to do anything hamas leadership anything to the hamas leadership or military or the hamas military organisation . Theyre deep underground. They have their own electricity their own electricity supplies, their own generators. So you do nothing. Generators. So you do nothing. They have their own water supplies. Their supplies. They have their own food. Will suffer in food. They will not suffer in the slightest from this. The people suffer will be people who will suffer will be the ordinary people gaza. The ordinary people of gaza. Ive been gaza. Its there ive been to gaza. Its there are lot people there are an awful lot of people there who constantly terrified by who are constantly terrified by the which come on the bombardments which come on their homes their on on their their homes because because hamas has provoked them. Hamas provoked this attack. They wanted the this attack. They wanted the israelis to respond in this way. And theyre delighted that they have done. Napoleon bonaparte gave a very good piece of advice, more than 200 years ago to who engage in in war. To people who engage in in war. Never interrupt your enemy while he making mistake. What he is making a mistake. What hamas a terrible mistake hamas did was a terrible mistake because they revealed true because they revealed the true face of a huge amount of the anti Israel Movement to a world which has used to believing which has got used to believing very much in in the anti israel propaganda, which is very common. Actually showed common. They actually showed that this is actually about that what this is actually about is people who hate israel and will hate israel. And will always hate israel. And until the world stops giving them aid and comfort, theyll carry on just hating israel, them aid and comfort, theyll carr attacking ust hating israel, them aid and comfort, theyll carrattacking it. Hating israel, them aid and comfort, theyll carr attacking it. That1g israel, them aid and comfort, theyll carr attacking it. That was rael, but attacking it. That was revealed in a way which had not been before. On october the been seen before. On october the 7th, thanks to israels bombardment of gaza, its now supped bombardment of gaza, its now slipped out of the news. All we talk about is the bombardment of gaza. Missed huge gaza. Theyve missed a huge opportunity their case. Opportunity to make their case. And also what is the military or political point of this . Israels survival does not depend on its ability to bomb blocks of flats in gaza. It depends ultimately on the support particularly support, particularly of the united the rest of United States, but the rest of the world. If it loses the western world. If it loses the western world. If it loses the support, the Political Support of the population of the western then it hasnt western world, then it hasnt got long to survive again. I think a lot of what peter saysis i think a lot of what peter says is almost unimpeachable. I says is almost unimpeachable. I think hes wrong on one thing, and that is that israel claims already. And i think it came quite early its quite early on in its bombardment to have killed at least possibly more of the least one, possibly more of the architects of the savage acts that we saw carried out in israel. So its not that hamas have completely got off scot free. I would say is that free. What i would say is that israel has been very successful, if thats the right word, in assassinating members of hamas over the years. And i think if it had taken a pause rather than rushed in, in the predictable way in which it has, and this has happened before, because hamas have committed atrocities in israel before and israel has responded in my view, heavy handedly before , if it had handedly before, if it had paused and reflected and enjoyed, if again , if thats the enjoyed, if again, if thats the right word, a degree of Global Support for it in its moment of crisis. I support for it in its moment of crisis. I think if were talking about pr battles, pr wars, it would be doing much better than it has at the moment. But again, i mean , i have to but again, i mean, i have to put this to you because i can justi put this to you because i can just i can hear my viewers and they will be saying everybody is familiar with happened on familiar with what happened on october 7th. It was so bad , october 7th. It was so bad, barbaric, and its easy for us to sit , shoot and go, yeah, to sit, shoot and go, yeah, i agree. They could have sat and they could have waited. They could have affected. And thats why joe biden, president of the United States, went there, showed went over there, showed solidarity but went over there, showed solida caution but went over there, showed solida caution on but went over there, showed solida caution on basis in urged caution on the basis in part of that america part of mistakes that america has before. You remember has made before. You remember 9 11. Can any of us forget 9 11. How can any of us forget it . World stood or much of it . The world stood or much of the world, the civilised world stood with america after those attacks. But then what did we see . We saw afghanistan, which turned into a 20 year nightmare. And we saw the iraq war, which was catastrophe, catastrophe was a catastrophe, catastrophe by and lost so by the west. And lost so countless civilians their lives. And it hasnt made the world a better place. And if israel is going to make the same mistakes that we have, then in the end , that we have, then in the end, israel suffers as well. Doing nothing is so often better than doing something stupid. Well , theres always this. Well, theres always this. The s0 hamas has attacked us. Something must be done. Well, one thing that must be done is to strengthen the defences of israel along that border very quickly and firmly in quickly and very firmly in anyway, or else that might anyway, or else where that might happen. People need to be happen. And people need to be accountable for that. And one of the why israels the reasons why israels politicians, are politicians, who frankly are not particularly with few exceptions , particularly impressive , particularly impressive, instead of doing something thoughtful , instead of doing something thoughtful, all instead of doing something thoughtful , all wanted to thoughtful, all wanted to placate the undoubted rage of their population against the vulnerability which had been exposed. One easy way of doing that was to bomb gaza. But it was easy. It didnt mean it was right. It didnt mean it was effective. So it is neither right nor is it effective. Bombing Populated Areas means you will kill innocent people. There is you may not intend to do so, but you will do so. So it will be laid to your account. You say. You say that you know the audience well , i would know the audience well, i would suggest that actually theres a diversity of opinions of people who watch gb news. But sure, i agree with you. Lots of people will be looking at what peter has said, looking at what i have said and be aghast what said and be aghast and what i say. They re say. Theyre asking you well, theyre asking you a simple question, a lot of my viewers getting in touch and viewers are getting in touch and asking to a simple asking me to ask you to a simple question. Theyre listening to what youre saying tonight and theyre well your theyre asking well ask your panel theyre asking well ask your panel. You think panel. Michel, what do you think israel then . Israel should have done then . Think should have i think israel should have paused, ive said. I think it paused, as ive said. I think it would have an enormous would have got an enormous continue get an enormous continue to get an enormous amount global sympathy it amount of global sympathy as it paused. Should probably paused. And it should probably have leadership have gone after the leadership of has been over the of hamas as it has been over the years, assassinated years, and assassinated them. And netanyahu, this and what netanyahu, who is this far minister of far right Prime Minister of israel, said in 2019, israel, actually said in 2019, is he wanted to sustain hamas. That by keeping hamas in place in gaza , that his barrier in gaza, that was his barrier against a two state solution. So against a two state solution. So israels leadership, it doesnt have any responsibility. I dont believe, for the savage acts , as believe, for the savage acts, as i say, of mediaeval barbarism carried out by those hamas evildoers. Of course it doesnt. Evildoers. Of course it doesnt. But he has mismanaged this situation. And lets not forget that israels defences and its Security Apparatus and its spy chiefs failed in the most miserable way by not foreseeing those atrocities. Those atrocities. So if you are jewish, if it was one of your Family Members that had been grabbed from their house or grabbed from this festival or whatever , so now festival or whatever, so now theyve got your Family Member. Theyve got your Family Member. Your member is one of your Family Member is one of these. Would you these hostages. Would you have been comfortable so youre been comfortable then . So youre getting a power getting in touches with a power that mom . Wheres that be wheres my mom . Wheres my wheres my relative . My grandma . Wheres my relative . You know what . Were going you know what . Were just going to think. To pause and think. Friend. I have friends i have friend. I have friends who live in israel. And one of the things i did in the immediate aftermath of these attacks get in touch my attacks is get in touch with my jewish friends to show jewish friends in to london show solidarity. Am deeply solidarity. And i am deeply concerned by the attack. The rise in anti semitism in this country. There is no excuse for it. But my response to seeing children butchered by Hamas Terrorists is not to celebrate or to seek to justify the killing of lots of children in palestine. I have a one year old. You have a child. Lots of the gb news viewers have children. Peter has children. When i see a dead child, i think of own child. And im not of my own child. And im not interested whether that child is an israeli or a palestinian man. Going it. Well, im going to leave it. Im going to throw this one over to you and come back to it. Actually because still actually because there is still a explore. I want to a lot more to explore. I want to look at what this ceasefire would potentially look like. Keir is getting keir starmer. He is getting himself a lot bother at himself in a lot of bother at the a lot of people, a the moment. A lot of people, a lot councillors done an lot of councillors have done an open letter to him about his response and also well response and also as well theres been debate commons theres been a debate in commons today or not today about whether or not pubuc today about whether or not public able to public bodies should be able to boycott israeli goods. What do you i also want you make of it all . I also want to talk to you about lots of matters closer to this country as well. General election. Should there early one . Should there be an early one . You and ill see you tell me and ill see and hes called for israel to keep providing electricity and. Water hi there. Im Michelle Dewberry with you till 7 00 tonight alongside me, Peter Hitchens and Matthew Stadlen remain. As we started the remain. As we started the programme, talking about israel hamas situation. I shall hamas situation. I shall continue that for a few more minutes because i think theres a lot to explore. This notion that there needs to be a ceasefire. Now. I find it quite ceasefire. Now. I find it quite interesting. There was an open letter written to, for example, keir starmer in this country by Muslim Labour Party councillors. They are formally calling on the labour party. They say to call for an immediate ceasefire in gaza and an end to the humanitarian disaster. Matthew, your thoughts . Your thoughts . It seems to me to be a new phrase or at least a phrase i havent heard before, this idea of humanitarian pause and it of a humanitarian pause and it stops of a ceasefire. Stops short of a ceasefire. Quite what the distinct option is. Im not sure thats rishi sunak line, isnt it . Thats what hes coming out. The European Union officials i think un officials called think un officials have called for pause. For a humanitarian pause. The United States, for their part , i think yesterday said part, i think yesterday said that this wasnt the time for a ceasefire. While the hostages were still in in hamas custody. Look im not saying and i want to be absolutely clear about this that israel doesnt have a right to defend itself. This that israel doesnt have a right to defend itself. Im not saying even necessarily that an absolute ceasefire should take place when you have roughly 200 hostages still , as i say, in hostages still, as i say, in hamas custody. What i am saying hamas custody. What i am saying and im saying it very strongly, is that the way in which israel goes about defending itself is critical. Its in your darkest hours , whether its us or israel hours, whether its us or israel or any other nation, that you have to pay particular close attention to the laws of war and to international, to the International Legal norms, to International Legal norms, to International Law. If you dont, International Law. If you dont, you become in severe danger further down the line. Thats the short summary of that that you do want a ceasefire or you dont a while to hundred israeli hostages, many of them civilians, some of them children, are being held by hamas. Im not sure where theres an absolute ceasefire , theres an absolute ceasefire, whatever that means for a week or two weeks necessarily makes sense. Im not a general. I cant sit there and say that israel should not attempt to go and get those hostages back militarily. Whether it can or militarily. Whether it can or not is another question. There certainly should be, as i keep saying, an obedience to International Law and that surely involves human atarian interventions. And what is totally unacceptable in my view, and others disagree , is that and others disagree, is that gaza should be under siege with power and water. As we have seen switched off. That cannot not be allowed. Do you think a ceasefire, is that where you are . Right. Well, i think just on a tactical point, i think a ceasefire would have to be mutual. It has to involve some sort of agreement between the israel and hamas, presumably through intermediaries, that if israel stopped bombing, then hamas would stop sending rockets out of out of gaza. I dont know whether thats even achievable, but my problem is what is the whats the rationality of this . Does anybody really believe that the continue shelling and bombing of gaza will achieve the release of a single hostage . I release of a single hostage . I cant see how or why it would do so. The cant see how or why it would do so. The very unwise threat, i think, was made by israel at the beginning that they wouldnt turn on the water or the electricity again until the hostages were released. Well in on hamas, as usual procedure, it could be a decayed before those hostages released. And hostages are released. And theres to believe theres no reason to believe that going to change that theyre going to change their policy on that. As i said, ive to its a ive been to gaza. Its not a place which you can just easily walk and well, that walk into and say, well, that must be where the hostages are. Well go and fetch them out. It isnt that, apart from isnt like that, apart from anything even what see anything else. Even what you see is major maze. But beneath is a major maze. But beneath that a great is a great is a that is a great is a great is a great web of tunnels in in which that is a great is a great is a grwouldb of tunnels in in which that is a great is a great is a grwould bef tunnels in in which that is a great is a great is a grwould be fantasticallyn which it would be fantastically difficult and just difficult to fight. And i just dont the logic that that dont see the logic that that bombing gaza will will help the hostages or indeed achieve anything else. I think the important things i think to tease out here is, is there really a difference between the Political Leadership of which, already of hamas, which, as ive already said, think reside , it seems, said, i think reside, it seems, in and the military in qatar and the military leadership, because you certainly dont certainly cant deal, i dont think, military think, with the military leadership who are capable of what saw those of what we saw, those acts of savagery israel. The savagery in israel. The question, i suppose, is can you deal political deal with the Political Leadership relatively leadership who are relatively safely in qatar , if you safely situated in qatar, if you can, and if the consequence of deaung can, and if the consequence of dealing with them means that you release those 200 israelis, those israeli hostages, then surely that is better than blowing gaza to smithereens. As i said , i wouldnt i wouldnt i said, i wouldnt i wouldnt get i wouldnt get mixed up in the question of the hostages. I dont know what it is that israel would have to give of hamas for those hostages, but it would be most peoples eyes, would be in most peoples eyes, im sure, highly unacceptable im sure, a highly unacceptable price discover price. And people will discover when that comes, what that when if that comes, what that will but but, michelle, what will be. But but, michelle, what would id id i would i do . Id id say if i were benjamin netanyahu, id say to world, weve enough to the world, weve had enough blood month. We should blood in this month. We should stop shedding blood. Now you now see, look, in the face of what hamas has done, see what they see, what they came and did, its not this isnt this isnt what what some bureaucrat at the un says is a is in some in some kind of context or not happening in a vacuum. This is not revenge or politics. This is hatred. Or politics. This is hatred. This is pure and simple. Racialist hatred of the kind everyone in the western world has to despise and has agreed to despise and exclude everything life. Exclude from everything in life. This they have done. This is what they have done. This is what they have done. This is what they have done. This is what they are like. Stop this is what they are like. Stop sympathising with them. Stop making them and making excuses for them and actually behind israel actually stand behind israel against this sort of thing. If he said that instead of dropping bombs on gaza, he get bombs on gaza, he might get somewhere long term. Somewhere in the long term. Well, disagrees. He well, colin disagrees. He says this basically should continue. Hamas must be completely destroyed. Othennise, what happened on october the 7th will happen again. A lens says no ceasefire israel must eradicate hamas once and for all. Only then will that leave people of israel and gaza to live in peace. Brian says the un and the who. Need scrapping. Theyve both proven and are still proving to be useless, insignificant and dangerous. Della says the only winner from a ceasefire would be hamas. How a ceasefire would be hamas. How can israel ensure a safe future free from terror attacks if they do not finish what has now been started . Sue says michel, started . Sue says michel, basically, i feel like were all just sitting here now waiting for world war iii. Let me talk to you about keir starmer mark, because he really is under pressure now. I mentioned that pressure now. I mentioned that open letter earlier on from councillors. Seen the councillors. Hes seen the resignation councillors. Councillors. Hes seen the resignation councillors. He resignation of councillors. He was talking with some was in wales talking with some muslim members at a mosque there. They came out and said that hed represented, misrepresented , sorry, the misrepresented, sorry, the conversations that theyd had and all the rest of it. Hes become under fire because he didnt mention situation didnt mention this situation in pmqs today. Do you make to pmqs today. What do you make to all this . Just so anyone who doesnt so just so anyone who doesnt know broadly speaking, know where, i broadly speaking, come because i think come from, because i think its important know the important for people to know the context i speak. Im context in which i speak. Im sort broadly favour of a sort of broadly in favour of a labour and certainly Labour Government and certainly not a supporter of this conservative government and i think that starmer has has made mistakes here and i predicted this. Reached out , i mistakes here and i predicted this. Reached out, i lost mistakes here and i predicted this. Reached out , i lost my this. I reached out, i lost my father nearly three weeks ago and so i wasnt on social media for three days out of respect. And that was just at the time of these atrocities. But i worried that israel, in response to the savagery, the medievalism , would savagery, the medievalism, would bomb gaza to smithereens. And i bomb gaza to smithereens. And i worried that labour wouldnt speak out against that because they are understandably very keen to distance the party from the horror days of Jeremy Corbyns leadership. And so i reached out to i wont say who to a senior labour mp and sort of beseeched him to take this point on board. And i dont think labour did sufficiently listen in those early days. And as a consequence of that, starmer on another channel i wont mention it was being interviewed and he was asked whether israel has a right to defend itself and he of course said, yes, we dont mind healthy competition. It was lbc. It was lbc. Lbc yeah, we dont mind. It was lbc, my former employer, and he was then asked whether a siege that cut off power and cut off water was justified. Off water was justified. And he repeated his line. Thatis and he repeated his line. That is in a sort of robotic way that israel had a right to defend itself. But he did go on and this is important that its been cut out of some clips on social media. Yeah, he did go on to say everything needs to be done International Law. Done within International Law. Now, that i think rather now, that i think was rather a wet think he wet response. I think what he should said that israel should have said is that israel should have said is that israel should not cut off power and water to gaza and hes got into trouble as a consequence because hes basically said he was misunderstood. And so hes misunderstood. And so hes either backtracked or hes clarified what he said. He should have been clearer. And as a consequence of him not being clearer , the or of him having to clearer, the or of him having to u turn if he was in fact meaning that in the first place, hes losing support within his own party to agree with that . Well, i think very much so. Hes the man who tries to please everybody. And as we know from the aesops fables, the man who tries please everybody ends tries to please everybody ends up pleasing nobody. One of tries to please everybody ends up jmanyig nobody. One of tries to please everybody ends up many reasonsiy. One of tries to please everybody ends up many reasons why one of tries to please everybody ends up many reasons why henne of tries to please everybody ends up many reasons why he seems to the many reasons why he seems to me to be obviously unfit for high but its high office. But yes, its a mess for him, largely of his own creation. If hed been clearer on what he on what he intended, he the mess. He wouldnt be in the mess. Of Close Friends one of my Close Friends actually, aziz, is actually, shaista aziz, who is a really woman, shes muslim, really good woman, shes muslim, she a hijab. She has she wears a hijab. She has worked very, hard for worked very, very hard for a Labour Government. Shes a moderate labour person and shes resigned in oxford as a consequence of how she feels. Starmer has handled this. Shes someone who believes that killing is on all sides , are killing is on all sides, are horrific and she thinks that starmer should have been quicker and clearer in his condemnation. And clearer in his condemnation. Action of some of the tactics or the strategies used by israel. And i have sympathy for her on that. Well, debbie, one of my viewers says, michelle, we are horrified about how your panel is responding to israels reaction to the massacre. You say it is hamas that are putting their civilians at risk, not israel. Debbie goes on to say israel. Debbie goes on to say hamas are food and fuel that they could give to their civilians in debbies view, she says israel are doing the right thing. And what we would want our government to do in this country if the same happened here, trish says, michelle, you are of us want are right. Many of us want israel to act for those babies, for the innocent victims. She says this cannot be let go if you just sit and pause, the terrorists will think theyve got the power to get and act again. They wont stop. They want to destroy israel and israel must act and do whatever. Israel must act and do whatever. Have none of these people even got the imagination to wonder to themselves what it must be like to be a wholly innocent, non political person innocent, non political person in or under bombardment. In gaza or under bombardment. Have they even been within . Have they seen what a what a building looks like after its been bombed . But there the viewers points ive just read out, they will say peter and peter and i are not denying that hamas are evil doers. On the contrary , mediaeval to on the contrary, mediaeval to describe hamas, the question is how do you beat them, defend israel against this evil . Point israel against this evil . Point one and point two, what are you prepared to do in the terms of killing innocent . Isnt palestinians, including children like our children, what how many of those lives are you prepared to pay . People have been using terms like eradication. Do they have any any idea what they mean . Has nobody learned anything from the wars the wars of the 20th century, the vietnam the united vietnam war, where the United States millions of states dropped millions of tonnes high explosive tonnes of high explosive on vietnam and eradicate the vietnam to try and eradicate the vietnam to try and eradicate the viet and destroy the chi viet cong and destroy the chi minh trail. Viet cong and destroy the chi minh trail. Not viet cong and destroy the chi minh trail. Not only viet cong and destroy the chi minh trail. Not only did viet cong and destroy the chi minh trail. Not only did they minh trail. Not only did they fail completely to do that, but they killed huge numbers of innocent people and devastated a country to no good effect. They lost the war. This kind of warfare does not work. Those who do it are stupid. No i think one thing that unites us all is i think we all agree that this situation is just absolutely horrific. Horrific. And, you know, i hope and prayer that at some point soon we start to move towards peace. I think thats what we all want. But do you actually see that happening . And if so, what would those steps need to be in your mind, to even start to put us on that path . You tell me. Gb views gbnews. Com after the break. Gb news. Com after the break. Matters gbnews. Com after the break. Matters closer to home. Rishi sunak a year to the day that he became Prime Minister doing a good not. Also good job or not. And also apparently almost three sorry. Yeah. Three quarters of us want to have an early general election. Are you one of them . Election. Are you one of them . Tell me why. The cards. Hi there, im Michelle Dewberry and im with you till 7 00 tonight. Columnist for the mail on sunday, Peter Hitchens alongside me as political commentator matthew stadler. Now it is one year that rishi, since rishi sunak became Prime Minister i mean, ive lost count, quite frankly, of how many Prime Ministers we have had now in the last five years, not to mention everything else. Are you still keeping on what number we are keeping up on what number we are and in anyway, do you and when in anyway, do you think, rishi sunak doing think, rishi sunak is doing a good job or not . Ill remind you in a second of key five in just a second of his key five pledges, but it caught my eye that almost three quarters now of brits apparently want a general election early. They general election early. They want it by may next year. Are you one of those people . Al why . When . What would you like to see happen next . Get in touch and tell me. But Peter Hitchens, your thoughts . I never yearn for general elections. I used to enjoy them when they were proper contests between between proper political parties. But ive stopped doing so. I used to. I also used to so. I used to. I also used to know the names of every Single Member his or member of parliament and his or her and her constituency. And i certainly do that anymore. Certainly dont do that anymore. For they the sort of for me, they were the sort of politically interested persons equivalent now equivalent of derby day, but now its a dull prospect and its just a dull prospect and i cant think of any reason why anyone would want to have one, because its the day itself is preceded by at least three weeks of surging floods of drivel, which i find increasingly hard. But you do know why people would want to have people are against the they would against the tories. They would say basically tories have say basically the tories have ground. Country down into an ground. The country down into an absolute to absolute mess and they want to kick out. Thats why people kick them out. Thats why people why would they want why would keir the answer to keir starmer be the answer to that . Right. That . Well,. That . Well, youre assuming they would it would well, youre assuming they wotin. It would well, youre assuming they wotin. Well, it would well, youre assuming they wotin. Well, i it would well, youre assuming they wotin. Well, i mean, it would well, youre assuming they wotin. Well, i mean, theres1ld well, youre assuming they wotin. Well, i mean, theres no get in. Well, i mean, theres no one around who looks very one else around who looks very likely to. I dont see why. If i dont i dont see why. If you dont like the way the country being run, you would country is being run, you would elect a government run by people who almost certainly make who would almost certainly make it already it even worse than it already is. That would a very is. So that would be a very strange logic. I think there a lot of i think there are a lot of people around the country who absolutely general election. Are you are you one of them . Are you are you one of them . Would like to have a i would like to have a general election. Dont forget. What now when in may . Lets just remember was not remember that liz truss was not leader the conservative party leader of the conservative party when had general when we last had a general election, johnson election, it was Boris Johnson then. Remember that then. Lets also remember that rishi leader of rishi sunak was not leader of the conservative when we the conservative party when we had election. Now, of had a general election. Now, of course elect our prime course we dont elect our Prime Ministers. Thank heaven we dont do but at the same time we do that. But at the same time we vote party knowing who is vote for a party knowing who is the that party and who the leader of that party and who will. If vote for that party will. If we vote for that party and everyone else or and everyone else does or a majority we that majority does, then we get that person minister. So person as Prime Minister. So i think theres actually quite a big deficit at the big democratic deficit at the moment i think there moment in britain. I think there was some hope even from people such as myself, and ive been very, critical, consistent very, very critical, consistent of conservatives over the of the conservatives over the last years. There was some last 13 years. There was some hope that rishi sunak would be a grown i think grown up in the room. I think hes that miserably. I hes failed in that miserably. I think he stoked culture think he stoked the culture wars. I cant see a single way in which this country in one year of rishi sunaks Prime Ministership improved. And i ministership has improved. And i tell you, though, i dont think there will be a general election. This is me with my analysts hat on. I dont think there be a general election there will be a general election in may because think sunak in may because i think sunak will desperate wait until will be desperate to wait until inflation comes down significantly. Hell hope for that. Then want that. I think he will then want interest course, Interest Rates of course, to come because people are come down because people are hurting for both reasons and hell want make much more hell want to make much more progress. On progress. Hes made already on his pledges. Bring on, because lets bring them on, because this matthews referring to. So lets refresh our memory, shall we, on the five things that pledged to sort out. That rishi pledged to sort out. One, was going to one, he said he was going to halve inflation this year. Two, he said was going grow he said he was going to grow the economy, better paid economy, creating better paid jobs. Reducing the jobs. Three, reducing the national debt. Four cut the nhs waiting list and five passing new laws to stop the small boat. New laws to stop the small boat. Hes not doing very well, is he . Michelle well, he would argue hes making great progress. Im sure he would cancelled quite a lot of hs2, which was definitely a very necessary and good thing to do. I think we have to applaud him for that. I think very unlikely i think its very unlikely hes disaster. Hes a disaster. Hasnt he hasnt been. He hasnt he hasnt been. I mean, he he must have heaved mean, he has he must have heaved an enormous sigh of relief when the anniversary around. He the anniversary came around. He said, actually prime said, ive actually been Prime Minister year minister for a complete year because have been quite because it would have been quite humiliating not to have made a yean humiliating not to have made a year. Himself year. He has made himself a hostage but to his hostage to fortune, but to his own competence. This is this is this is a government this is this is a government which is not totally harmless , which is not totally harmless, but actively harmful. But its not actively harmful. Its i dont know why people are so keen on politicians anyway, but they havent actually theyve got they havent got the spirit the organisation or spirit or the organisation or the do much harm , the direction to do much harm, whereas a new Labour Government after what is it, 13 years out of office are going to be poised to do so much active harm if they come. What i dont know because they wont tell us. We have no idea what theyre going to know, i know it to do, but i know, i know it will be bad. It will be like, well, remember 1997 . Of course , well, remember 1997 . Of course, you were young then. But you were so young then. But i wasnt. But in 1997, everybody said, oh, blair, hes going to be wonderful. They were be wonderful. And they were completely beguiled. And they and loathed john major. And they all loathed john major. And right, lets and they said, right, lets all vote blair because hes and they said, right, lets all vote to blair because hes and they said, right, lets all vote to beir because hes and they said, right, lets all vote to be great. Use hes and they said, right, lets all vote to be great. And 1es and they said, right, lets all vote to be great. And then they going to be great. And then they discovered cromwellian mass discovered this cromwellian mass of reform , the of constitutional reform, the break up the united kingdom, break up of the united kingdom, the of the economy, the savaging of the economy, gigantic redistribute wealth gigantic redistribute of wealth and a vast politically correct sexual revolution all dumped on them without any warning at all. And all the things they were told to expect, i. E. Better schools and better policing didnt emerge. Those are just didnt emerge. Those are just slogans. Same with this slogans. Its the same with this lot. Wont tell you what lot. They wont tell you what theyre do until they lot. They wont tell you what theit. E do until they lot. They wont tell you what theit. And do until they lot. They wont tell you what theit. And for do until they lot. They wont tell you what theit. And for instance,il they lot. They wont tell you what theit. And for instance, theyy do it. And for instance, they didnt tell you the new labour law. They were they were going to the bank england its to give the bank of england its independence, one the most independence, one of the most disastrous decisions in modern times. Things of times. They will do things of that because knew and that kind because they knew and because theyre fresh and because theyre fresh and because can. And i see ive because they can. And i see ive seen no reason to hurry this day on and lots of reasons. Id much rather a wounded holed beneath the waterline large, powerless government not able much government not able to do much damage a new flashy 1 1 damage. A new a new flashy 1 1 wired up to do to do everything wants to do that. We saw under new labour and im with you. You call it disaster. Im with you. On the disastrous legacy of the iraq war. But labour made a not mention. Labour made a lot of progress. Invested progress. They invested very heavily they heavily in the nhs. They invested in sure start, they invested in sure start, they invested in sure start, they invested in education. But as far as whether we should have a general i was 17 in general election, i was 17 in 1997, desperate to vote. There was a real sense in the country that after 18 years of conservative rule, people still wanted change. Our political system, i think roughly goes in cycles. New labour were in power for 13 years. Well, how long were they in power for years . 13 years. This government has been in power for 13 years with various huge number of prime various a huge number of Prime Ministers. Sense the same ministers. I sense the same design. You look at those two by elections overturning elections recently overturning enormous conservative majorities. Yes, some tory voters stayed at home, but i think i think the sands have changed. Are shifting. I think people desperately want to have their say and want to kick their say and they want to kick this lot out. There are dying government says they cant do damage. Damage. Damage. They are doing damage. Irrational imagine its irrational to imagine thatjust you dont like that just because you dont like the incumbent government, things will replace it will improve if you replace it with government, you with another government, you have a bit more careful have to be a bit more careful about sort government it have to be a bit more careful ai you sort government it have to be a bit more careful ai you replacert government it have to be a bit more careful ai you replace it government it have to be a bit more careful ai you replace it with vernment it have to be a bit more careful ai you replace it with and ment it is you replace it with and people are not looking at it at the starmer, at starmer, he the starmer, at starmer, what he is, hes like, what his is, what hes like, what his what party is like, what what his party is like, what theyre to do. Theyre theyre likely to do. Theyre just well, get just saying, oh well, lets get rid tories. And then they rid of the tories. And then they find, know, the fable of find, you know, the fable of king log, king stork, the frogs, they asked. They asked they asked for a king. And asked the gods for a king. And the flung a log and it the gods flung down a log and it lay the pond. They said, lay in the pond. And they said, well, is very boring. Can well, this is very boring. Can we have a new, more exciting king . And so they were sent a stork ate them king . And so they were sent a sto up. Ate them all up. So should we have a tory government forever . Should we have rishi sunak in number 10 forever . I would do a great deal to avoid another blairite government muscle and government full of muscle and willingness full of willingness to act and full of the to make the country the desire to make the country even worse than it already. Yes see, i think you two have kind of to me kind of somehow, to me highlighted of the main highlighted one of the main problems political problems in our political landscape, its landscape, because its listening it listening to you, its is it labour or is it tory . And one of the things that i cannot stand about politics in this is that somehow this country is that somehow people Critical Power somehow belongs either to labour or to the tories. And it is as simple and as cut and dry as that. I really dislike that and i would personally really like to see a root and branch proper shake up, new faces, new blood, new energy , new political parties. Yeah. Not just a we need to new these these both these parties are corpses. They have rigour mortis. They prp they have rigour mortis. They prop each other up. If one of them fell, the other would fall aftennards. But. But somehow or other subsidy broadcasting other state subsidy broadcasting rules them in existence rules keep them in existence long they should have died. Abigail michelle, abigail says. Michelle, a general soon as general election as soon as possible. Why . Because this pm does not have a mandate from either the electorate or its members. To being members. I object to being governed a few men in suits, governed by a few men in suits, she says , who think they know she says, who think they know better than general public. Better than the general public. Abigail is disgraceful. Abigail says it is disgraceful. Tell me who you would like to see in power instead. But for now, have to take a break. Now, i have to take a break. Ill bring some of your response now, i have to take a break. Ileust1g some of your response now, i have to take a break. Ileust in some of your response now, i have to take a break. Ileust in awme of your response now, i have to take a break. Ileust in a couplerour response now, i have to take a break. Ileust in a couple of r response now, i have to take a break. Ileust in a couple of minutes. E in just in a couple of minutes. Also, i want to ask you, social media, for good when it media, a power for good when it comes to Mental Health or not . You tell me. Hi there, Michelle Dewberry with you till 7 00 tonight alongside me, Peter Hitchens, Matthew Stadlen remain. Weve just been talking about whether or not there should be a general election. Peter says sunak is election. Peter says sunak is doing a very good job in very difficult circumstances and ive got to say, peter, a lot of people dont give the tories credit for the amount of stuff that has gone on that has been entirely outside of their control. Well, i wonder how control. Well, i wonder how would any party have fared, quite frankly, over these last few years . Charlie says. Few years . Charlie says. Michelle no , definitely not. To michelle no, definitely not. To a general election. He reckons labour party will get in and he says, god help us if they do. Clive says we need someone who is strong and who will listen to the people. I think hes suggesting he will vote for the reform party when that comes along. Michelle, one really interesting thing because you said before the break about the new a critical of the monopoly of power by these two main parties. No, im im im critical of the monopoly of entitled. The monopoly of entitled. And i think that tory and laboun and i think that tory and labour, they somehow think that the people within this country belong to them. So even on one side or the other and i find it indulging in egotistical claptrap , but theres an extent claptrap, but theres an extent to which its true that we do belong to them because that is our system, whether you like it or not. But i think it is very interesting in the upcoming election that the role that smaller parties might play. Lets take for example, a lets take just for example, a quick example. Party. The reclaim party. The reclaim party. Reclaim party, because the reclaim party, because richard leader richard tice is the leader of the going to say the the of. I was going to say the complain party, but the reclaim party. A gb news party. And hes a gb news presenter he could be a very presenter and he could be a very significant in this significant figure in this election he could a election because he could be a massive disrupter of the conservative remember conservative vote. You remember in election, farage in the last election, farage nigel another news nigel farage, another news presenter, down about 300 presenter, stood down about 300 candidates. I ran in that candidates. Well i ran in that election in tory seats. I was a brexit party, so he stood down. I was a brexit party, so he stonbutown. I was a brexit party, so he stonbut richard tice i dont but richard tice i dont think will, and he could therefore take a lot of votes or enough from conservative, enough votes from conservative, from candidates from conservative candidates that the election to that could give the election to labour. Laboun amazing how many people its amazing how many people on supposed who when on the supposed right who when they had an absolute to they had an absolute duty to destroy the conservative party as an obstacle to conservatism, did it in being did nothing, kept it in being endorsed its adoption of blairite policies. Now, now when blairite policies. Now, now when were faced with another blairite government, now theyve decided to sabotage the conservative party so that we get a blairite government. Its astonishing how people zig when they should have zigged and zagged, when they should have zigged every time. But who are we talking but but who are we talking about specifically . Would about specifically . What would you to you have liked people to have done well, they done differently . Well, they should have. When David Cameron went before saying before the electorate saying the conservative is now conservative party is now is now a blairite which has a Blairite Party which has adopted cultural, adopted the entire cultural, moral revolution. And moral and sexual revolution. And i present myself to you as the heir to blair, which he did. They should have said, well, thanks very much, but no, we already have a blairite policy Blairite Party in the in the labour and they should labour party and they should have for the have not voted for him. The power not voting is immense power of not voting is immense and dont understand how and people dont understand how enormous power by by enormous that power is by by voting, legitimise voting, you legitimise the people vote for. They dont people you vote for. They dont you dont have to imagine if they general election and they held a general election and everybody just sorry, we everybody just said, sorry, we dont of you and didnt dont like any of you and didnt vote thered be no vote for them. Thered be no legitimacy the resulting legitimacy for the resulting government. Theyd rerun government. Theyd have to rerun the of the the election in the case of the in of the conservative in the case of the conservative party in 2010, it was on its last legs. It deserved to die. Cameron was trying to save it by making it into a second. A Second Labour Party and proper patriotic conservatives should have refused to vote for it. Can i just come back to that instead . So they they endorsed it. And so they they endorsed it. And now we have this shower just to come back to that look, i can see to a degree the force of what peter is saying and hes running against the grain. The grain is that we should all vote. Its our responsibility to vote as our democratic duty to vote. If we dont then dont vote, we cant then complain. I couldnt vote for complain. I couldnt vote for either. Ive never voted tory, but i couldnt vote for either. The conservative party or the Labour Party Last time round because i couldnt vote for a party that was led by Boris Johnson. I party that was led by Boris Johnson. I wouldnt voted johnson. I wouldnt have voted for them but i couldnt for them anyway, but i couldnt vote a labour party that was vote for a labour party that was led jeremy corbyn. So i had led by jeremy corbyn. So i had a dilemma. Do i do . Do i do dilemma. What do i do . Do i do i spoil my ballot . As peter might suggest . No, i voted green. And of course there are problems suggest . No, i voted green. And of cothee there are problems suggest . No, i voted green. And of cothee there party,oblems suggest . No, i voted green. And of cothee there party, butems suggest . No, i voted green. And of cothee there party, but thats with the green party, but thats what to do. The second what i chose to do. The second thing is peter keeps talking about the sexual revolution, and i that should i dont think that that should pass because pass without challenge because peter disagree very fundamentally. But dont Start Talking too much sexual revolution at much about sexual revolution at 6 00 watching 6 00 at night. Peter watching no, talking about no, no, youre not talking about it in a way. Ive just been my friends ive just been to my friends house. Did covering some house. Okay. Did covering some of the. Do want to know this do we want to know this story . Yes, its important. Delivering the stuff delivering some of the stuff that baby has grown out of that our baby has grown out of the friends was delivering it the friends i was delivering it to is in a civil to is in a gay civil partnership. Thanks to tony blair to cameron. He blair and thanks to cameron. He could been he could have been married if he chose to. Theyve had a baby chose to. And theyve had a baby by surrogate and personally, i celebrate even peter celebrate that even if peter doesnt. Dont celebrate is the what i dont celebrate is the way which governments have way in which governments have become marriage and become hostile to marriage and pretty driven the married pretty much driven the married family as we previously knew it out of out of existence, particularly among the that is a whole thats a thats something which really needs to be reversed. That is a whole debate for another day. Lots of people saying please, you correct saying please, can you correct matthew the Matthew Richard tice is the leader reform , not reclaiming. Sorry, we get so confused with reform and reclaim. Yes so, guys, there are so many different tiny parties, arent they . Wish that everyone could they . I wish that everyone could just come together and actually create for good. Create some force for good. Anyway, look, all weve got time for matt. Peter, thank you. Thank to at too. Home, ill thank to you at too. Home, ill do the social conversation do the social media conversation tomorrow, now, dont go tomorrow, but for now, dont go anywhere. Farage, hes up next. Hello again. Its Aidan Mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast. Some clear spells out there first overnight, but where we see the clear spells, we also see some mist and fog developing at and quite a number of showers will arrive in many places by dawn. A large area of low pressure the of the uk pressure to the west of the uk is swinging weather is swinging various weather fronts over the next few fronts our way over the next few days and between the fronts days and in between the fronts well see some clear spells, but also some showers, gap in also some showers, a gap in between systems across between the systems across Northern England into the midlands anglia overnight midlands east anglia overnight could patches could lead to some fog patches by. Othennise a lot of by dawn. Othennise a lot of cloud on map as we begin cloud on the map as we begin thursday. That means a mild start, but it also means a bit of gloomy start. Therell be of a gloomy start. Therell be showers spells of rain showers or longer spells of rain across many parts the across many parts of the country. Potential for some heavy rain around the south coast and persistent rain coast and some persistent rain setting up across the north and east scotland with gales for east of scotland with gales for shetland and orkney. Because shetland and orkney. Now because of the increasingly persistent rain across eastern scotland , rain across eastern scotland, theres a rain warning in force. Its not going to be as wet as it was last week, but any additional rainfall, of course, could cause some issues elsewhere. Its showers and some frequent downpours in frequent heavy downpours in places theyll continue into friday across northern ireland, western england, wales with some thunder and hail thrown in as well. More persistent rain continues across central and eastern scotland. The north and eastern scotland. The north and east of england as well , and east of england as well, and more unsettled weather on the way for saturday and sunday with low pressure continuing to dominate away. Away. Its wednesday night and this is farage at large , live from farage at large, live from cardiff. Cardiff. Please welcome your host , please welcome your host, nigel farage evening. Were live here in cardiff where the Welsh Parliament has just banned gb news from their television sets. Well talk about that. Well talk about that. Well talk about that. Well talk about 20 mile an hour speed limits. Ive got some fresh stuff on de banking. Ahead fresh stuff on de banking. Ahead tomorrow of the big natwest board meeting. Weve got welsh stories, National Stories , stories, National Stories, interNational Stories, great guests. Stay with us. First, guests. Stay with us. First, lets get the news with polly middlehurst. Middlehurst. Nigel, thank you. Good evening to you. Well, our top story tonight, bbc boss tim davie has faced an unprecedented grilling from mps over the broadcasters failure to label hamas as a terrorist organisation. Conservative mps are understood to have become increasingly concerned over the bbcs coverage of the israel hamas conflict. Todays meeting was requested by the 1922 committee, which represents conservative backbenchers tory mp Jonathan Gullis spoke to gb news after the meeting, saying he was shocked that tim davie would not agree to calling Hamas Terrorists because it may hurt some peoples feelings. Some peoples feelings. To me this is mind boggling. Everyone knows that hamas is a terrorist organisation. Its a proscribed terrorist organisation here in this country. Every other News Agency Like the great gb news also considers this to be a terrorist organisation. What on earth