Crucial part of the programme. Um, email me, mailmogg gbnews. Com now um, email me, maitime g gbnews. Com now um, email me, maitime forgbnews. Com now um, email me, maitime for the 5ws. Com now um, email me, maitime for the newsnm now um, email me, maitime for the news of now um, email me, maitime for the news of the now its time for the news of the day polly middlehurst. Day with polly middlehurst. Jacob thank you. Well, lets bnng jacob thank you. Well, lets bring you some breaking news thats happened in the last hour or so. Officials in gaza saying at least 300 people have been killed and 200 more have been injured in an israeli airstrike on a hospital in gaza city where thousands were seeking treatment and shelter. The Israeli Military says it doesnt have any details of the attack, but addedit any details of the attack, but added it is investigating the bombed Christian Hospital in the centre of gaza city is currently engulfed in flames. Survivors are being pulled out and the palestine president has declared three days of mourning. Justin trudeau of canada has called the attack unacceptable. While the israeli ambassador to the uk , israeli ambassador to the uk, tzipi hotovely, responded to news of the attack a short time ago on gb news. This is a war that hamas started from this horrible massacre that happened in october 7th. I think everyone is still shocked in this country, in israel and around the world, from the atrocities that were exposed that hamas did. And as exposed that hamas did. And as we speak, there are still 199 israelis, including children and holocaust survivors, grandparents that are kept hostage in hamas hands. I want to check what happened, but im sure and i can guarantee you, we never target civilians. Never target civilians. Now, a british israeli teenager whos been missing since last weekends terror attacks by hamas has been confirmed dead today , 13 year confirmed dead today, 13 year old yahel and her mother, leanne, were both killed when gunmen attacked their kibbutz last weekend. Her sister, noya, last weekend. Her sister, noya, and their father , eli, are both and their father, eli, are both still missing. And here the still missing. And here the Prime Minister called for the Immediate Release of hostages taken by hamas. Its thought another nine britons are among 200 being held. In other news, 200 being held. In other news, the return of islamist terrorism poses a threat to all european nations. According to the french president , nations. According to the french president , emmanuel nations. According to the french president , emmanuel macron, who president , emmanuel macron, who is speaking today. President , emmanuel macron, who is speaking today. His comments came a day after two swedish football fans were shot dead in a terrorist attack in brussels before belgiums euro 2024 qualifier against sweden last night. Belgian police say the suspect who identified himself onune suspect who identified himself online shortly after the attack as a member of islamic state, was killed this morning. The was killed this morning. The Scottish First minister is pledging £300 million to cut nhs waiting lists in scotland. Humza yousaf told the snp conference in aberdeen the cash could reduce waiting lists by 100,000 patients by 2026. In his first Conference Speech since taking over from Nicola Sturgeon as party leader, mr yousaf also pledged to Freeze Council tax in scotland next year, said the first minister made a comment about the israeli conflict, saying that with family in gaza he calls on the International Community to set up a Refugee Programme for those fleeing from the strip. And in weather the gaza strip. And in weather news here at home, yellow weather warnings for wind and rain are to be in place from tomorrow with the arrival of storm babette. Its the second named storm of the season and is due to last until saturday. The met office warns of potential flooding, power cuts and travel disruption. The weather warning covers much of scotland east eastern parts of Northern Ireland, as well as the north and east of england , with gb and east of england, with gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on Digital Radio and on your Smart Speaker by saying play gb news this is britains news channel. News channel. The institute for fiscal studies, one of britains leading economic think tanks , leading economic think tanks, has released its latest forecast for britains economy, and it paints a pretty bleak picture for our future. While it forecasts that the Prime Minister will meet his promise to halve inflation by the end of the year, it also expects that the year, it also expects that the country is in a fiscal bind that we can neither increase pubuc that we can neither increase public spending nor cut taxes. The cause of this fiscal bind, it says, owes itself to high levels of indebtedness and increase in the cost of that debt and a failure to stimulate growth. This is an unfortunately compelling argument, but we dont have to succumb to this management of decline. One of management of decline. One of the lessons of last years truss kwarteng mini budget is that tax cuts must be supported by spending cuts. In the last year or so, borrowing has simply become too expensive. Its become too expensive. Its taking too big a part of our National Economy in the year to last may, debt Interest Payments were £117 billion, and thats the third biggest budget after welfare and the nhs. Its more than defence and education and the town halls. We need to cut our coat according to our cloth and we have to identify cuts first and deliver tax cuts once weve identified where we can reduce spending. As well be coming on to later whitehall needs reform and rationalisation. But last year there was a plan that could have saved 6 billion to get the Civil Service back to the numbers of 20 1516 and also a review of these extraordinary grants which go to woke outlets and outfits that are thought to cost £7 billion, according to conservative way fonnard. We need to look at nhs spending, which grows year in, year out, without any increase in productivity. We have to make productivity. We have to make sure that money is spent productively. Weve got a 20 productively. Weve got a 20 billion commitment on Carbon Capture and experimental Green Technology which may or may not work. And surely it should be work. And surely it should be the private sector that determines new technologies. We have announced the scrapping of hs2 but then decided to spend the money on all sorts of other projects that havent yet been tested. Money needs to be saved , tested. Money needs to be saved, not simply reallocated , and we not simply reallocated, and we need to recognise that everything that is paid for is ultimately paid for by the private sector. People keeping private sector. People keeping their own money. Thats where we need the tax cuts. So you and i keep more of what we earn and businesses do too. The harmful increase of Corporation Tax to 25 needs to be reversed. And 25 needs to be reversed. And this punitive, punitive tax has serious consequences on the british economy. Already, astrazeneca said that thats why it moved its factory to ireland and we need to make lives easier for people rather than harder. The inflation stealth tax on your earnings is going to be kicking in. The government has frozen income tax brackets , frozen income tax brackets, which the ifs predicts is the same as £0. 06 on the basic rate of income tax. As ive said of income tax. As ive said before, we should abolish the death duties, which is an inefficient tax that leads to the misallocation of capital and doesnt raise much money. Later on, well be remembering the late chancellor nigel lawson, who his Memorial Service who had his Memorial Service earlier in saint earlier today in Saint Margarets westminster. We must remember the lessons he taught us britains economy is us growing britains economy is the solution to our woes and would be a consequence of reducing the squeeze on taxpayers. As always, i want to hear from you. Let me know your thoughts. Male margaret gbnews. Com. Im very pleased now to be joined by the chief economic adviser at the centre for economics and business research,. Vicky, research, vicky pryce. Vicky, its a pretty gloomy picture that the ifs is painting. Where that the ifs is painting. Where do you see any cheer . Where can we get more than managing decline . Its a very difficult penod decline . Its a very difficult period were going through because of course, its not just us, but the world isnt growing particularly fast. So if you to reduce your so if you were to reduce your debt gdp ratio, you debt to gdp ratio, then you really growth. Now, really do need that growth. Now, the question is where is it going come from . The problem going to come from . The problem is, course, we have is, of course, that we have borrowed awful of money borrowed an awful lot of money dunng borrowed an awful lot of money during it was during covid. A lot of it was redistributed the people. Redistributed to the people. It kept going and that kept businesses going and that allowed the economy to recover. Now, question , of course, is now, the question, of course, is what do do all this what do you do with all this debt that youve accumulated . Can you, in fact, reduce it . The problem that problem is, of course, is that we whatever we have decided for whatever reason, to have a quarter, i think, of our debt roughly, which is index linked. Now, we which is index linked. Now, we neednt have done that, but at the time, of course, we expected that inflation was going to be quite low. Interest rates were going to be low. Well, going to be quite low. Well, weve by very high weve been hit by very high inflation, just here, but of inflation, not just here, but of course internationally. Interest rates everywhere. Rates have gone up everywhere. So costs have so our debt servicing costs have gone through the roof. And youre absolutely right, this is a real problem we cant a real problem that we cant deal with at present until deal with it at present until inflation down. We inflation comes down. So if we were to look at it a little bit of optimism ahead. First of all, inflation coming perhaps inflation coming down, perhaps that be that cost is going to be a little bit less. And the second is, indeed, you did talk is, yes, indeed, you did talk about what happened with hs2 that money is very unlikely to be spent in the very short term. Whatever the Prime Minister may have said. So there is some saving that can be done that way. But in reality, there are still going be these still going to be these pressures ahead of an ageing population. You mentioned net population. You mentioned net zero. Of course, all that area which has already had resources committed to it and they will need a lot of money spent. There is no doubt about that. You know pensioners, but you do with them benefits of course, which need to carry on increasing. So i think this is the basis in which the ifs calculated that is the ifs has calculated that is going to be very, very difficult to find the extra money that perhaps is needed, which may then allow a government to reduce taxes. Reduce taxes. And weve got therefore to be talking about difficult decisions, havent we, that actually hs2 was actually cutting hs2 was a difficult decision. Back difficult decision. Cutting back on some of the net zero objectives was a difficult decision. But we cant do everything that we may want to afford. We have to be more realistic what realistic about what the government and perhaps to government can do and perhaps to some extent covid made both the government and electorate government and the electorate think that government could think that the government could do everything and that there was always further money could always further money that could be provided. This just isnt realistic. Well, true, but of well, its true, but of course, youre seeing is course, what youre seeing is that a lot of the support that was businesses has now was given to businesses has now disappeared practically, and they much they didnt get very much in terms of energy support. So youre going terms of energy support. So you very going terms of energy support. So you very significant. Going terms of energy support. So you very significant. So going terms of energy support. So you very significant. So if going terms of energy support. So you very significant. So if you 1g up. Very significant. So if you dont the smes providing dont have the smes providing more jobs and youve seen whats happening now in the employment market, was market, the data that was released today that released today suggests that vacancies are now going down, that companies are much more careful terms of who they careful in terms of who they hire. So its not just what the government has done, but certainly not get the certainly they did not get the support that perhaps some other countries have given to their businesses, which means really that are going to be that they are going to not be able to provide the employment, which lead to extra which then will lead to extra spending, then will lead spending, which then will lead to growth. That is to faster growth. And that is a real issue were facing right now. But there is to some extent, though, this isnt politically popular, a purgative effect that comes of higher Interest Rates, a weaker employment a slightly weaker employment market which puts further downward pressure on inflation, which allows in a way the economy to reset and to allocate resources more efficiently in businesses that will grow. And businesses that will grow. And that from 2008 to some extent , that from 2008 to some extent, very low Interest Rates allowed zombie businesses to survive and kept employment in businesses. That wasnt productive and that the rise in Interest Rates and the rise in Interest Rates and the knock on effects of that sets a better platform for growth, even if its a difficult penod growth, even if its a difficult period to go through. Well, course we did have well, of course we did have quite Interest Rates quite low Interest Rates following the financial crisis and had at the same time, of and we had at the same time, of course, a very substantial decline in in government spending. You saw was spending. So what you saw was that, you know , there was this that, you know, there was this austerity period and we didnt grow particularly fast for quite some time. So it didnt quite allow zombie businesses to survive then. In fact, you had quite a shake out that took place and loads and loads of people, of course, lost their jobs in the Civil Service, which is one of items going is one of the items youre going to anyway. And they became to cover anyway. And they became self employed very self employed and with very low productivity through productivity. So we went through this period low this long period of very low productivity, even though interest not Interest Rates were not particularly was particularly high. That was a real and weve only just real issue and weve only just returned. Well, more or less to returned. Well, more or less to the real wages we were at, you know, more than ten years ago. Real difficulty is and the real difficulty is productivity. And there seems to have been a failure to get productivity not for productivity growth, not for just the last ten years, for the last 30 as an economist, last 30 years as an economist, what think causing what do you think is causing that what can that and how what can a government do to improve productivity to make us work that little bit more effectively . Well, the standard answer would be better skills , better would be better skills, better infrastructure. So the fact that were not going to have the second leg of hs2 is a real problem because infrastructure is important. We need infrastructure also in terms of broadband, you know, its not just an issue of roads and rail and so on. Its really much , and so on. Its really much, much wider in terms of the accessibility of people to the jobs that may be there. And they need to absolutely be able to do that and have the tools to achieve that. So skills are really, really important, but we do an in do have an issue in this country, whether country, which is that whether we it or not, manufacturing we like it or not, manufacturing tends be much more productive tends to be much more productive than is the case for services and course, services are and of course, services are quite difficult to calculate. You mentioned earlier, you mentioned nhs earlier, pubuc you mentioned nhs earlier, Public Sector productivity is very hard to calculate. So if very hard to calculate. So if you have a large of your you have a large part of your economy which is service oriented, which actually has quite skills, not quite a lot of low skills, not all of it is Financial Sector business services, all those which seeing quite which are now seeing quite a substantial increase in wages anyway, but rest are not. Anyway, but the rest are not. And you dont have this and if you dont have this manufacturing base, then you suffer because your productivity does to whatever you does not respond to whatever you may be doing because you just have lost that. And productivity is and when productivity is increased services, with increased in services, as with banks branches, increased in services, as with banvery branches, increased in services, as with banvery unpopular branches, increased in services, as with banvery unpopular formches, increased in services, as with banvery unpopular for people its very unpopular for people like bank branch and they like their bank branch and they feel somethings being taken away but is away from them. But that is an obvious banks to obvious way for banks to increase productivity and potentially profitability. But of course theyve it is. But of course theyve done because done quite well because their margins interest as margins on Interest Rates, as you kept them going. You know, have kept them going. And , they are cutting and yes, they are cutting costs, there about it. And there is no doubt about it. And we that problems metro we know that problems are metro bank because it does bank has said because it does have whereas the other have branches, whereas the other banks but is an banks do not. But there is an issue wider issues because issue of wider issues because when looking at when were looking at productivity, think productivity, we need to think about regionally as about what happens regionally as well. Branches also about what happens regionally as wel|affect branches also about what happens regionally as wel|affect the branches also about what happens regionally as wel|affect the high jranches also about what happens regionally as wel|affect the high street,s also about what happens regionally as wel|affect the high street, high can affect the high street, high street, which is a can affect the high street, high streissue. Which is a can affect the high street, high streissue. But which is a can affect the high street, high streissue. But there which is a can affect the high street, high streissue. But there ishich is a can affect the high street, high streissue. But there is one is a big issue. But there is one element of productivity on the skills which skills side, which is the biggest element of if you look at regions and how well they biggest element of if you look at the egions and how well they biggest element of if you look at the mores and how well they biggest element of if you look at the more graduates well they biggest element of if you look at the more graduates you they biggest element of if you look at the more graduates you have do, the more graduates you have in region, the your in the region, the higher your productivity. If they leave on hs2 , then you lose them. Hs2, then you lose them. Thank you, vicky. David carter let me know your thoughts. Mal margaret gbnews. Com. Coming up next as thoughts. Mal margaret gbiwar;. Com. Coming up next as thoughts. Mal margaret gbiwar between ning up next as thoughts. Mal margaret gbiwar between israel|p next as thoughts. Mal margaret gbiwar between israel andext as thoughts. Mal margaret gbiwar between israel and hamas the war between israel and hamas escalates iranian escalates with the iranian ayatollah issuing warnings to the president the jewish state, President Biden has announced he will be visiting demonstrate visiting to demonstrate americas commitment to americas ironclad commitment to israels safety. What can america in reality do. Earlier on gb news radio. Earlier on gb news radio. Welcome back. Im still Jacob Rees Mogg and this is still the state of the nation. Youve been getting in touch with your thoughts, carol, half, half of the Civil Service and scrap , the Civil Service and scrap, half starting with half the quangos, starting with the here. Here. Carol, your the abr here. Here. Carol, your heroine of today. David, we need to cut taxes and cut spending, especially net zero. I agree especially on net zero. I agree with david to the Civil Service needs to be cut massively less state more freedom for state and more freedom for daniel in the real world, someone with a maxed out credit card would not any more, card would not spend any more, but cut their costs, but would cut their costs, reduce debts and reduce their debts and allow themselves to become solvent. Why such difficult concept to why is such difficult concept to understand by governments and Civil Services . Well, thank you Civil Services . Well, thank you very much to daniel. All. One of the most disturbing components of this latest and darkest chapter of israels continuing war with hamas is the fact that the terror group has taken 200 hostages across the border into gaza. Last weekends events were anything to go by. Its hard to imagine the conditions the hostages currently find themselves in as they are kept imprisoned by hamas. But this imprisoned by hamas. But this hostage situation is crucial to the events of the forthcoming weeks. There safety is of the utmost importance to the Israeli Government determines much government and determines much of strategy in trying to of their strategy in trying to ensure return whilst ensure their return whilst destroying hamas. Well, im joined by dr. Arad hagi, joined now by dr. Arad hagi, whose family have been missing since the attack on their kibbutz in october the seventh. Doctor arad, thank you so much for joining me. This is brave of forjoining me. This is brave of you to come on, tell me, what do you to come on, tell me, what do you understand has happened to your family . Basically we your family . Basically we started in mourning. My uncle and auntie were just all retired. They like to go for long walks. So they went for as usual. They went in saturday morning. They went for a walk and they been they send a text about ten minutes to seven about about. Theyve been under attack of missiles, of rockets. And of missiles, of rockets. And they sent a text to the kids and they sent a text to the kids and they say we are under attack. We have to find a hide. We have to hide, and we have to find somewhere to find against the rockets. 20 minutes later, they send a text to the security in the kibbutz that judy was sending a text text to the kibbutz security. And listen , kibbutz security. And listen, gadi, my husband, my uncle been shot. Hes badly wounded. Im badly. Im. Shot. Hes badly wounded. Im badly. Im. Im wounded, but not that badly. Can you please help that badly. Can you please help us to get some some help . Us to get some some help . Fortunately, the terrorists, because they got shot of the motorbike , makes the first wave motorbike, makes the first wave of the terrorists came with a motorbike and they shot them straight away in the in the in the fields. A fortunately, nobody in the kibbutz can help them because they since they were under heavy attack at and the only ambulance the bullet proof ambulance was set on fire and since then we nobody had nobody had a thing nobody know where they are. So the area where they were was searched and they werent there. But i understand a mobile there. But i understand a mobile signal has been picked up from gaza. So there is a hope thats a possibility. Were not sure. We cant say 100 that there is a theres a theres a signal from gaza. Its theres a signal from gaza. Its probably been taken to gaza because they they basically the terrorists, they loot. They they not only they not only massacre the whole kibbutz , like 30 of the whole kibbutz, like 30 of the whole kibbutz, like 30 of the kibbutz, they just took everything they can. So maybe were not sure if theyve been taking to gaza or they just if there is a signal phone from gaza and if they my family is in gaza, too. We dont know. And gaza, too. We dont know. And were not sure. We cant say in 100. The signal came from gaza and they. What help are you receiving from the British Government or from the British Government or from the British Government or from the Israeli Government to try and find your uncle and aunt . Im not im not im not an official government. Im im a private citizen. But i know the private citizen. But i know the american is because my both of my uncle and my auntie are american citizens. The american tried to do all they all they can and the israelis to they try to do everything they can. But you have to remember that the whole community basically wiped out and hundreds of people are missing the evidence. The just horrific. They burned people alive, raped , decapitated , took alive, raped, decapitated, took they took from the kibbutz, old people in their 80s. I know people in their 80s. I know a 91w people in their 80s. I know a guy. He used to live in my kibbutz, very sick in a care home. They just executed him in his bed , in his care home. So his bed, in his care home. So there is such a mess. And they try to look for my family in the fields and nobody found anything. And we still hope for the best. But you have to remember that there is a hundreds of bodies of Israeli Citizens lying in hospital waiting for some kind of identified. Its kind of identified. Its impossible. Its. The is unimaginable. And the worry you must be feeling. Im so grateful that youre willing to come and explain this because its so important people understand the detail and the horror of what has happened. People people dont understand the horror of whats happened there. Its like its like the pogrom in europe 100 years ago, the whole Community Just wiped out. Out. Its so important for youve come on to explain it because the way people understand is through personal testimonies. So thank you very much, doctor. Im so grateful you joined us. Its very brave of you. Well, faces this darkest you. Well, faces this darkest moment in its history and its response to the recent terror attacks is held under the microscope of the International Community. Perhaps the most important response of all comes from the united states. Us President Joe Biden has announced a visit to israel tomorrow to reinforce its ironclad commitment to the countrys safety. Fundamentally, countrys safety. Fundamentally, the superpowers position the worlds superpowers position is the one that really matters. It matters so much more than is the one that really matters. It matt elsesnuch more than is the one that really matters. It matt elses asch more than is the one that really matters. It matt elses as with ore than is the one that really matters. It matt elses as with ukraine, anyone elses as with ukraine, israel is on the front line against the iran russia axis , against the iran russia axis, which has now positioned itself as the key threat to western liberal democracy. While britain and anglosphere the and the anglosphere and the European Union can help israel, particularly our moral particularly with our moral support, in support will support, america in support will be the ultimate determining factor in this war. So this decision from the president is important. Well, with me now is my esteemed panel, the criminal barrister former barrister and former tory mp jerry hayes, author and jerry hayes, and the author and broadcaster crick. Broadcaster michael crick. Michael, how how strong is america . How powerful is its influence to persuade the Different Actors in the region to do what it thinks is best and wisest . Well, no one is stronger than the americans in the region, not just through their long standing relations with israel. Relations with israel. And of course, that plays a role in american politics in a way that it doesnt in our politics. And of course , america politics. And of course, america also has good relationships with many of the arab countries in the in in the middle east. But american influence has not been i dont think is as great as it used to be in terms of israel. I mean, for instance, the growth of the settlers in the west bank, for instance , which the bank, for instance, which the americans have urged restraint on that. And basically have been ignored over the years. And its now in the situation where its very difficult to see a two state solution ever coming about. But you know, we all wish biden well. I desperately hope biden well. I desperately hope he does persuade the netanyahu government isnt to be very careful about what they do in gaza. Its very difficult to see how you you know, you kill off hamas and at the same time save your hostages. I mean, ijust dont understand how militarily you do that in such an urban area. Area. And jerry , the us has very and jerry, the us has very strong relations with saudi arabia, very strong relations , arabia, very strong relations, ties with israel , a very bad ties with israel, a very bad relationship with iran, saudi arabia has a very difficult relationship with iran and an easier one it used to have with israel. Is it the key for israel. Is it the key for American Foreign policy to make sure that it doesnt so support israel, that it alienates saudi arabia , which would make the arabia, which would make the whole of the middle east more dangerous . And how does it keep those plates spinning . Those plates spinning . Well, its very difficult, but this was all about iran saying we do not want a deal with saudi arabia. We do not want a deal with bahrain. We do want a deal with bahrain. We do not want to deal with the united arab emirates. Thats what they arab emirates. Thats what they wanted because it would improve , wanted because it would improve, move the lives of people in gaza and elsewhere. But the elephant and elsewhere. But the elephant in the room and its a big elephant is iran. You see, elephant is iran. You see, youre not going to get rid of hamas by going in and killing an awful lot of people because the money will still be coming in andits money will still be coming in and its coming in from iran. Now, strategically , ali, were now, strategically, ali, were going to have to be a bit grown up about this. I dont know how you do it. Going to have you do it. Were going to have to we will have to deal with to say we will have to deal with iran do we do it. Iran on how do we do it. So is the enemy iran . Okay. So is the enemy iran . Yes. Rather than hamas. Yes. And therefore, do you do something to iran rather than in gaza . Well, you try and do both, dont you . The trouble is, iran is only a few years away from getting the bomb. Yes. Yes. And if he hasnt got it already, he hasnt got it already. Yeah, i mean, the other problem is that that if you know what i think what israel is already done and the hundreds of people whove already been killed in gaza will inevitably act as a recruiting sergeant for the next generation of hamas , the next generation of hamas, even if the israelis root them out, every one of them, if they can. But there will be young men who will will have lost families , who will be always been the way. And weve seen that in other places. Thats again and again and again. Thats thats always been the way. But the interesting about iran is the regime is looking a little bit shaky because people well before this , people are well before this, people are taking to the streets. Women are taking to the streets. Women are becoming more empowered than it ever been in iran. So how how do we and lets be honest, how do we and lets be honest, how do we stay destabilise iran without a world war . Well, are there reasons to be slightly more optimistic . Because china doesnt want to have a Nuclear Powered iran. It have a Nuclear Powered iran. It doesnt want Nuclear Weapons behind an islamic fundamentalist regime, even russia doesnt particularly want proliferation. Particularly want proliferation. It wants to annoy and upset the west, but it doesnt. Its got its own own fundamentalist problem in russia, which it doesnt want to have backed by the iranians. So iran has few supporters who are really ready to go out on a limb for it. Thats quite interesting because putin is the weakest hes ever been. The chinese are not supporting putin in the way that they used to. So perhaps its with relations with china that we could begin to move against iran. But weve got to move against iran. Othennise, this whole thing is just not going to work. Moving against iran, but moving against iran, crucially, may one thing crucially, may be the one thing that maintains the support that most maintains the support of arabia because saudi of saudi arabia because saudi arabia iran the most arabia and iran have the most difficult relationship of any two countries in the middle east. How do we how do we move against iran . Well, thats the problem. The problem. I mean, you know, the west has got every economic sanction it can think of against iran right now. Iran right now. Oh, no, no. Oh, no, no. Oh, no, no. Oh, no, no , no, no. Well, oh, no, no, no, no, no. Well, hang on. Do you remember we had this . Do you remember we had this . Weve given them £6 weve just given them £6 billion. Sorry, but billion. 6 billion. Sorry, but thats a lot of money. Yeah, that was in settlement of old. Of an old. Doesnt matter. Cash today. Yes, yes. And you know where yes, yes. And you know where that cash is going to go. To hamas. Of course its gone to hamas. Of course it theres the problem. It has. Theres the problem. Say sanctions and therefore, say sanctions are part of it is it legitimate . Is moral will to attack iran is it moral will to attack iran directly . Directly . Never mind with its moral. Its whether its effective. Okay yeah. I dont i dont think you can do that. I mean, why not . Well because if iran has got the bomb i yeah, but lets assume lets assume it hasnt and its still developing. Well, i think actually in these circumstances, one has to assume it has. One has to assume it has. You know, youre taking a huge risk by making such an assumption , jacob. I mean, assumption, jacob. I mean, i think they have i dont think theyve got a deliverable bomb. They may have a load of dirty bombs, which could cause all sorts of trouble, but i dont think theyve got a bomb. Even theyve it but even if theyve got it a year or two down the road, yeah , year or two down the road, yeah, you it is just so the risk such an unthinkably dangerous. Can i just move. Can i just move. Can i just move. Oh no, unfortunately. Oh, but oh no, unfortunately. Oh, but thank you to my panel. I thought that was a particularly interesting discussion coming up that was a particularly interea ing discussion coming up that was a particularly interea newiiscussion coming up that was a particularly interea new report on coming up that was a particularly interea new report has oming up that was a particularly interea new report has taken| up that was a particularly interea new report has taken aim next, a new report has taken aim at the inflated whitehall blob with the number of measures designed persistent designed to overcome persistent inefficiency. , inefficiency. Plus, family, friends and colleagues gathered today service to today for a Memorial Service to mark lawsons exceptional mark lord lawsons exceptional career and legacy. Ill be speaking to the former chancellor exchequer, chancellor of the exchequer, lord discuss lord lamont, to discuss his remarkable. Ians. About ofcom earlier on gb news radio show. Radio show. Welcome back. As youve welcome back. As youve guessed, i remain Jacob Rees Mogg and youve been getting in touch with your thoughts. Mike says with all these atrocities in the news at these atrocities in the news at the moment, i would like to thank presenters their thank all presenters for their responsible headed responsible and level headed news broadcasting in these troubled you. Troubled times. Well, thank you. Thats extremely generous of you, mike and tom. Surely the very first condition for negotiation is a return of the hostages unharmed. And that hostages unharmed. And that seems very strong point , seems a very strong point, actually. Report that was actually. A report that was commissioned by me last year to review the inner workings of whitehall been semi leaked. Whitehall has been semi leaked. Lord of horsham has lord maude of horsham has submitted extensive list of submitted an extensive list of recommendations to the Cabinet Office and they include abolishing the post of cabinet secretary, breaking up the treasury ministers treasury and giving ministers more appointing civil more say in appointing Civil Servants, from the servants, taking heed from the private sector, suggesting 360 degree reviews for ministers to improve working relationships. 360 degree view reviews are when everybody says what they think of you , they might tell you of you, they might tell you youre pretty horrid, which might so much fun anyway. Might not be so much fun anyway. Another remove might not be so much fun anyway. Anofacelessness remove might not be so much fun anyway. Anofacelessness of remove might not be so much fun anyway. Anofacelessness of theemove might not be so much fun anyway. Anofacelessness of the blob e the facelessness of the blob holding Civil Service chiefs publicly accountable for approving of approving the workings of government could government. This could prove popular the public who popular with the public who oolong enjoyed an ever oolong have enjoyed an ever expanding and unofficial Civil Service plans for whitehall reform promised by rishi sunak last summer , are still being last summer, are still being worked on with review being worked on with this review being considered of the considered as part of the preparations. So will these much needed reforms be the answer to improve government efficiency and perhaps an opportunity for spending cuts . Well, still with me is my panel. The criminal barrister former tory mp barrister and former tory mp jerry the author and jerry hayes and the author and broadcaster michael crick. Jerry reform, the Civil Service perennial subject. When you start this report, Civil Servants of god, isnt this wonderful . This is something new. No. What they did, they actually went into the safe, picked out something which came along under harold wilson. This was all done by harold wilson. And of course, by harold wilson. And of course, he didnt work because he wanted to break up the treasury and the fiscal bit and the budget bit. Everyone wants do that wont Everyone Wants to do that wont work everyones been work because everyones been through whos through the treasury. Whos a senior servant. They have senior civil servant. They have to it anyway. Wilson to do it anyway. Harold wilson set the department of set up the department of Economic Affairs under george brown , who unfortunately was brown, who unfortunately was drunk most of the time. Brown, who unfortunately was drunk most of the time. So it drunk most of the time. So it didnt work. It all fell apart. So theres nothing new in any of this. And you know, it wont happen. Would it have worked if george brown had been sober . I george brown had been sober . I dont think so. Dont think so. I mean, it carried on under various other ministers. I think Michael Stewart oh, they all did. And 1 or 2 others. And it all sort of i think it got abolished at the end of the end of the first. Wilson government abolished at the end of the end of the fiitheyreson government abolished at the end of the end of the fiitheyre basically 1ment abolished at the end of the end of the fiitheyre basically trying abolished at the end of the end of separateeyre basically trying abolished at the end of the end of separate out basically trying abolished at the end of the end of separate out thesically trying abolished at the end of the end of separate out the fiscal trying abolished at the end of the end of separate out the fiscal side,j to separate out the fiscal side, looking after the nations money and looking after the governments money and looking after the economy. But okay, so but and okay. But okay, so but and i dont know if thats what this proposal of dont know if thats what this proposalof course, blair thought and, of course, blair thought of well, i think. Of doing this as well, i think. And but it never happened. Um, and but it never happened. Um, the, the, the proposal about abolishing the cabinet secretary. Well, id have to read more about that. Im not really sure what the point. Ive never seen that before. Ive never seen that before. It doesnt quite its about taking head the civil taking out head of the Civil ServiceCabinet Service from the cabinet secretary. The role of secretary. So the role of running the Civil Service separate. Thats done. Running the Civil Service sepwell, thats done. Running the Civil Service sepwell, thats; done. Running the Civil Service sepwell, thats; dordone. Well, thats has been done. That times. That has several times. And have a private and you have a private secretary, permanent secretary secretary, a permanent secretary for street to run the for downing street to run the downing see. But this an old thing as see. Bitheys an old thing as see. Bithey usedn old thing as see. Bithey used tonld thing as see. Bithey used to call1ing as see. Bithey used to call it|g as see. Bithey used to call it in as see. Bithey used to call it in in well. They used to call it in in the 70s. And 80s and the 60s, 70s. And 80s and probably 90s. The office of the Prime Minister because the Prime Minister doesnt have too many Civil Servants. He has lots of special advisers. He doesnt special advisers. He doesnt have really much power to control this, that and the other. And Prime Minister, other. And as Prime Minister, you too much power you really want too much power to this, that and the to control this, that and the other because it or other because he leaves it or she to people like you she leaves it to people like you to own department, to run your own department, prime thats the prime us into powers. Thats the whole of it. Whole point of it. But then what well, yes, but then what about the more political involvement in Civil Service appointments . Isnt that the way were going have to go . Were going to have to go . I think thats a bad no, i think thats a bad idea. I mean, it would mean , idea. And i mean, it would mean, for keir starmer for instance, when keir starmer comes to office in about a years comes to office in about a years time , which i he years time, which i think he will, you know, getting rid of the current lot, theyll all be out of their jobs. Okay and bringing in a new lot that will all have to sort of sucked up to labour years. I mean, labour for, for years. I mean, maybe of them are doing maybe some of them are doing anyway , but have agreed anyway, but i would have agreed with until sue gray with you until sue gray very committed to a i was very committed to an a political but im political Civil Service, but im afraid sue gray has moved to laboun afraid sue gray has moved to labour. Made me think that it simply didnt and we simply didnt exist and that we were deluding ourselves that this possible. If you have this was possible. If you have somebody with that seniority because was in because you see, she was in charge and ethics charge of propriety and ethics and im sure shes and therefore and im sure shes kept it all discreet, but she knew all the secrets of every minister appointed during her holding of that role. And then she went off to be a senior figure in the labour party. And i cant say im comfortable that. No. And comfortable with that. No. And you know, there was she did have a kind of labour ish background and her is trying to become and her son is trying to become and her son is trying to become a candidate and thats fine a candidate and thats all fine what does and she was what her son does and she was and she was very impressive to deal with. Was very professional she was very professional and charming but on the other charming thing. But on the other hand, david frost, i mean, he worked a but he wasnt worked he had a but he wasnt that matter. Worked he had a but he wasnt that matter. He worked he had a but he wasnt that matter. He turned out to no matter. He turned out to be a main principle , as did be a main principle, as did douglas hurd. I think the seniority is fine. Douglas was was douglas hurd was was a mandarin in the foreign office. Thats right. Was quite thats right. It was quite a long well , actually, there long well, actually, there wasnt wasnt long a gap. No. No. In the foreign office. And going heath, i think going to work for heath, i think i dont think theres been an absolute ban. Think depends on i think it depends purely on seniority. Once youve seniority. But once youve reached permanent secretary reached the permanent secretary level, pretty odd to go level, its pretty odd to go into politics and that means that politicians now cant be confident that it really is an apolitical Civil Service. And therefore, when things dont happen , you think, well, its happen, you think, well, its not happening because theyre not happening because theyre not on my side rather than its not on my side rather than its not happening. Look, other not happening. Look, for other reasons. Now, we need to have right now, we need to have the brains working in the very best brains working in government be they politicians or be they Civil Servants. And or be they Civil Servants. And the problem with this is that people will be thinking, well, hey, when i get to 50, maybe i can a permanent secretary can be a permanent secretary running or maybe running a department or maybe even secretary running even cabinet secretary running the government or helping run the government or helping run the government. And theyll the government. And then theyll think, a moment. Think, but hang on a moment. The other are going to be back other lot are going to be back in i will never i will in by then. I will never i will never reach top. And what never reach the top. And what you incentives for you need is incentives for people to the very top to people to get to the very top to join service, have join the Civil Service, have a whole reach whole career there, and reach the top. Dont want the very top. They dont want the very top. They dont want the of thinking, the insecurity of thinking, well, but ill be out on well, yeah, but ill be out on my ear or ive got to suck up to one part. It goes beyond that. But unfortunately, the job security means theres no security means that theres no consequence well consequence for failure. Well keep your job, even if you spend pubuc keep your job, even if you spend public money very badly and theres too much job security. But it has to be signed off. I think this has to be signed off by ministers, dont forget. I strongly well, look, i strongly believe constitutional believe in the constitutional principle responsibility. Yes, course. But what yes, of course. But what would destroy by having would we be destroy by having a more politicised . Because it means more politicised Civil Servants . We look at america, servants . We look at america, they have about a year to get they have about a year to get the transition of the government and they have their own people coming seamless robe coming in. Its a seamless robe in this country and thats joyous, but its seamlessly inefficient. Inefficient. And thats the problem weve got to move on. Politicians are inefficient. Politicians. Look, lets be honest. Youre politicians. Look, lets be honest. Youre a politicians. Look, lets be honest. Youre a great guy, honest. Youre a great guy, highly intelligent, but youve never anything. Gosh. I never run anything. Oh, gosh. I set own business. Set up my own business. A business, a business. But its. Its money. Its money, you know, but money, spades in the ground. Money is quite important. And thats be what were thats going to be what were talking next. To talking about next. Thanks to my panel talking about next. Thanks to my panel. Up next, ill be panel. Coming up next, ill be joined by lord to joined by norman lord lamont to discuss greats discuss one of the greats of british politics, nigel lord lawson blaby. Welcome back. I continue to identify as Jacob Rees Mogg, and youve been getting in touch with your mail. Moggs graham sunak, as with everything else, will just kick the can down the road and elizabeth smith, the cabinet secretary, didnt used to be the automatic head of the Civil Service. Things were at their most east. When their most unbalance east. When mark sedwill was cabinet secretary, head of the Civil Service and Head National service and head of national security. Today we security. Thank you. Today we remembered the late former chancellor of the exchequer , chancellor of the exchequer, nigel lord lawson of blaby at a Memorial Service in Saint Margarets westminster , where he margarets westminster, where he was the most was undoubtedly the most important chancellor important post war chancellor this country has seen. Why is this . Well, it was that he got things right. He was determined to bear down on inflation, cut the size of the state, cut taxes. And he believed in sound money. He was a towering figure in british politics. He was a fundamental part of thatcherite ism, begging the question of whether it could have happened without it. He held many posts. Without it. He held many posts. He was Energy Minister and started the privatisation of Energy Whilst he was there and he carried on after leaving office with concern considerable contribution to public controversies. He was the first really big figure to back brexit and he was also brave enough to challenge the green agenda when it was at its most blobby. Well, im particularly pleased to be joined by another former chancellor of the exchequer , chancellor of the exchequer, norman lord lamont. Well norman, thank you very much for coming in. You gave a wonderful tribute to nigel lawson earlier on today. He was a great man to work for. You found as well as getting many of the Big Decisions right . Yes. Well, first of all, can i say i totally agree with what youve said. He was a gigantic figure and he was a key part of mrs. Thatchers team. I mean, the others were keith joseph and geoffrey howe. But the three of them without them , nothing could them without them, nothing could really have been achieved. And he wasnt in mrs. Thatchers first administration, but he was very influential. Well, as very influential. Well, as financial secretary to the as financial secretary to the as financial secretary to the treasury , and one of the first treasury, and one of the first things he did and was done very quickly when they came to office was to abolish exchange controls. Remember your hard. I do. I was, but i was i was ten. And i do remember. But nigel, as you say, i had the pleasure of working for him first as financial secretary myself and as chief secretary. And he was a friend as well. But he was a joy to work for because he was a joy to work for because he was a joy to work for because he was so clear. He let you get on with it. But he told you what not to do. If there were some obvious fallacies us and also we used to have the most enjoyable budget preparation meetings , the budget preparation meetings, the way in which a budget is prepared is over very many months. And when obviously at the beginning starts off with a wide range of options , those wide range of options, those which have served up by the Civil Service in response to ministers guidance. But nigel would have these mega meetings maybe with 25 people or different expertise, different aspects of the tax system and the options would be narrowed down at each weekly meeting. And it was like watching a conductor with a Symphony Orchestra and only nigel was actually writing the score for the orchestra at the score for the orchestra at the same time. And he was very keen not just to cut taxes, but to simplify the tax system. I think its right that in every budget he presented, he abolished one tax and this important because and this was important because currently our tax system is extremely and increasingly complex. Complex. Yes, thats right. He did not just cut taxes, he simplified them. He cut a tax each budget. Them. He cut a tax each budget. Some of them were sort of taxes. One had hardly ever heard of. One had hardly ever heard of. But it was a good symbolic thing to mean, in his great 1988 to do. I mean, in his great 1988 budget, which was the one where he made sweeping cuts in taxation, he reduced the top rate of tax from 60 to 40. But he also abolished all the other top rates that had gone all the way up to 60. So it is simplified it from multiple rates to 1 1 rate. He also , rates to 1 1 rate. He also, while he reduced taxes , got rid while he reduced taxes, got rid of lots of reliefs so that i mean, some people didnt like this for instance he aligned you might not have liked this he augned might not have liked this he aligned Capital Gains tax and income tax and said the two should be levied at the same rate. Well, a lot of better off. Conservative supporters were delighted to have the income tax cut, but didnt much like what was in effect, an increase in Capital Gains tax. But that was his mentality and philosophy. His mentality and philosophy. But he index linked Capital Gains and he rebased it in 1982. And so on. So he, to my mind, made it a fairer and more intelligent tax. Intelligent tax. Well, thats true, although indexation was there before him right. Right. But he continued with that, which then got abolished recently. Learn recently. What should we learn from nigel for our current day Economic Policy . Well, nigel well, or is he a great figure from the past and we should admire him from the past. I think. I think the lessons of the two issues there, i think the lessons economically are that old time religion is the best sound money cutting inflation and limiting the state, cutting taxes. But when it is affordable , he but when it is affordable, he was very, very strong on this, that he did not believe taxes should be cut without corresponding adjustments in pubuc corresponding adjustments in Public Expenditure and he did not believe in cutting taxes when inflation was at a high or rising level. So that was one rising level. So that was one reason he backed rishi sunak in the leadership election. But what does he mean politically . I think the great hallmark of his career was his courage. He he didnt believe in wasting a lot of time trying to find some artificial consensus. He artificial consensus. He believed you should decide what you thought was in the interests of the country. Do it and wait to be judged by the results. And to be judged by the results. And i think that is really how all people ought to behave in politics. And he had great confidence in his own judgement and therefore was willing to push through controversial policies because he cut the top rate because when he cut the top rate of tax , parliament had to be of tax, parliament had to be suspended, didnt it . Which never budget. It never happens in a budget. It caused such a shock. But this didnt deter or deflect him at all. No, i think he was very much against consensus, not concern census when people naturally agree. But if there was agree. But if there was a consensus , his attitude was why consensus, his attitude was why is there no debate on this . Surely there ought to be some debate about this. And he was always suspicious of consensus and he was suspicious. Rouse didnt worry him. He suspicious of the he was suspicious of the consensus on green issues and published a very important book on which remember him on it, which i remember him saying had get his saying that he had to get his daughter nigella to get her publisher do it as favour publisher to do it as a favour because nobody else would publish. Controversial publish. So controversial a book. Yes. I mean, nigel didnt completely there was such a completely deny there was such a thing as climate change, but he did believe it was happening did not believe it was happening at people were saying at the pace people were saying he there was a false he believed there was a false consensus in some of the so called experts and he believed that even if it was happening in dealing with it, there were other Solutions Available as well, such as the adaptation of behaviour or adaptation of behaviour or adaptation of behaviour or adaptation of buildings , that adaptation of buildings, that sort of thing. Well, i think he was a very great man, an inspiration to all of us in politics and if i may, your tribute today was perfectly pitched at Saint Margarets. Thank you, norm, for coming in. Thats all from me. Thank you, norm, for coming in. Thats all from me. Up thank you, norm, for coming in. Thats all from me. Up next, thats all from me. Up next, its the mighty mark dolan. Mark what is on your bill of fare this evening . How do you follow Norman Lamont . How do you follow Jacob Rees Mogg . Well do our rees mogg . Well, well do our best 9 00. Best at 9 00. Big opinion , heres in my big opinion, heres a surprise. The covid lockdowns didnt work. Thats according to a former sage adviser. Plus a top former sage adviser. Plus are we hurtling towards world war iii . Oh, goodness. Well, thats oh, goodness. Well, thats very difficult stuff to debate. Very difficult stuff to debate. Lets hope were not hurtling towards world war iii. And im afraid your sage adviser sounds to me to be likely to be talking a lot of good sense. Thats all exciting coming up exciting stuff coming up shortly. Jacob rees mogg. Shortly. Im Jacob Rees Mogg. This stephanie asian this has been stephanie asian and know that tomorrow in and you know that tomorrow in somerset will somerset the weather will be glorious. Glorious. As alex deegan here with your latest weather update from the met gb news, the met office for gb news, the storm system has yet to fully arrive, once it does, arrive, but once it does, its going drop lot of rain going to drop a lot of rain between the weekend between now and the weekend storm. Babette is brewing down to the south west, initially throwing rain up across the south during wednesday, but then continuing to track northwards and kind of becoming slow moving on wednesday over northern on wednesday night over Northern Ireland. England ireland. Northern england and then eastern then into parts of eastern scotland where we have an amber warning in place. But we have yellow good yellow warnings across a good part uk. Keep up to date part of the uk. Keep up to date with weather warnings with those weather warnings through with those weather warnings throu to with those weather warnings throuto tonight and some rain back to tonight and some rain across parts of Northern Ireland may turn a little heavy later in the night, but for many itll be a night. Winds a dry night. The Winds Continuing strengthen and continuing to strengthen and with cloud, it will with a lot more cloud, it will be a much milder night compared to recent nights across scotland. Northern and scotland. Northern england and northern for many, Northern Ireland. And for many, wednesday will still be a dry and bright day. Northern and a bright day. Northern englands Eastern England good part dry , part of scotland staying dry, but rain but therell be showery rain over the midlands, wales and southern. Thats going southern england. Thats going to up go through the to pep up as we go through the day. Turn pretty heavy day. Could turn pretty heavy dunng day. Could turn pretty heavy during wednesday evening across the the strengthening the south of the strengthening gusty and wet and gusty wind as well and wet and windy weather also working towards Northern Ireland. So some heavy bursts likely here through wednesday evening. Temperatures into teens, temperatures into the teens, even teens in the even the high teens in the south, but not feeling very warm with a wet and windy weather which continues through wednesday then wednesday night. And then in thursday grinds thursday on thursday grinds to a halt eastern scotland. Halt across eastern scotland. Hence that amber hence why we have that amber warning in place here. But therell heavy showers therell still be heavy showers elsewhere as well. Elsewhere as well. Who is it . Were here for the show. For energy. This time. Show. For energy. This time. Welcome to the dinosaur hour. Welcome to the dinosaur hour. I was married to a therapist. I was married to a therapist. And you survived. And you survived. I thought we were getting hugh laurie, second best. My bellys de man. You interviewed Saddam Hussein . Whats that Saddam Hussein . Whats that like . I was terrified. Im playing strip poker with these three. Oh, no, thank you. My cds need to be put in alphabetical order. Oh are you going to be problematic again . Going to be problematic again . The dinosaur. Our. Sunday the the dinosaur. Our. Sunday the 29th of october at 9 00 on gb news is here with gb news in the top story tonight, israels Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu is blaming what he calls barbaric terror lists for the attack on a hospital in gaza city. Tonight, that has left about 500 people dead. Israeli 500 people dead. Israeli intelligence says it was caused by a failed rocket attack on israel by the Palestinian Islamic jihad. But officials in gaza blame an israeli airstrike. Thousands were seeking shelter at the hospital , al. And earlier at the hospital, al. And earlier tonight, it was engulfed in flames with survivors being pulled out and transferred to nearby hospitals while the dead were being laid out outside. The were being laid out outside. The World Health Organisation has condemned the explosion, calling it unprecedented. And the it unprecedented. And the foreign secretary James Cleverly says the uk will work with allies to find out what happened at the hospital. The israeli ambassador to the uk, tzipi hotovely, responded to news of the hospital attack earlier on gb news this is a war that hamas started from this horrible massacre that happened in october 7th. I think everyone is still shocked in this country, in israel and around the world, from the atrocities that were exposed that hamas did. And as exposed that hamas did. And as we speak, there are still 199 israelis, including children and holocaust survivors, grandparents that are kept hostage in hamas hands. I want to check what happened, but im sure and i can guarantee you, we never target civilians. Never target civilians. Well, weve been watching pictures in the last 15 minutes or so of the us president ,