Not spill over to any other parts of the region. He also said the us working to effect said the us is working to effect the israeli hostages the release of israeli hostages taken hamas well as taken by hamas as well as ensuring the humanitarian ensuring that the humanitarian crisis doesnt worsen. Crisis in gaza doesnt worsen. Hes due to return to israel on monday israel prepares for a monday as israel prepares for a ground the gaza ground offensive in the Gaza Strip Israeli prime strip with the israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu today convening an emergency Cabinet Meeting and vowing to demolish today, demolish hamas. Well, today, the European Unions backed israels right to defend itself as long as that is in line with humanitarian and international law. As he left cairo, Anthony Blinken stressed the uss continued support for israel actually doing, including the deployment of these Aircraft Carrier battle groups. Again and not to provoke anyone but to send a very clear message of deterrence that no one should do anything that widens this conflict in any way or that furthers aggression against israel from any other direction. Direction. Well, other World Leaders are talking as well. King abdullah of jordan has travelled from the middle to east london to meet the Prime Minister today , rishi the Prime Minister today, rishi sunak welcomed King Abdullah, the Royal Household in amman, saying he was there hoping to discuss the deteriorating and dangerous situation in gaza. This comes after a further round of crisis talks by World Leaders with others as they try to inject diplomacy into the conflict between israel and hamas. Meanwhile all four government flights carrying britains have left israel today, two more are expected to arrive later on the Foreign Office telling british nationals in gaza to be ready to move in case the rafah Border Crossing with egypt thats in the south is opened. Its currently the is opened. Its currently the only route out of the territory. The foreign secretary James Cleverly telling us at gb news the uk government is doing everything it can to get british people trapped in gaza out, out. Meanwhile here at home, hundreds of people have gathered at a vigil in Central London to commemorate israeli victims of the hamas terror attack. Many were draped in israeli flags holding posters saying bring them home and handing out flyers featuring names and faces of those taken hostage by hamas. A Strong Police presence patrolled the event that took place in westminster in Central London. Well away from the israeli hamas conflict. Well away from the israeli hamas conflict. England are through to the last four of the Rugby World Cup after a 3024 victory over fiji in their quarterfinal in marseille today, steve borthwicks men will now face france or south africa in the tournament semi finals. That means england are now into the semis for the second world cup in a row as they seek a second win in the tournament. In a row as they seek a second win in the tournament. Youre win in the tournament. Youre with gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on Digital Radio and on your Smart Speaker by saying play gb news this is britains news channel. Britains news channel. Jewish schools close in london due to fears of anti semitic attacks. A man wins attitude magazines woman of the year award and labours new hate crime policy could see citizens jailed for two years for the crime of misgendering. This is crime of misgendering. This is free speech nation. Welcome to free speech nation. Welcome to free speech nation. Welcome to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. This is the show where we take a look at culture, Current Affairs and politics. And of course, well have the latest from those lovable culture warriors. As long as we dont get cancelled ourselves between and 9 00. Coming between now and 9 00. But coming up show tonight, one up on the show tonight, one consequence tragic consequence of the tragic violence gaza has violence in israel and gaza has been significant in been a significant rise in anti semitism britain. Tom anti semitism in britain. Tom slater, the editor of spiked online , will be here to discuss online, will be here to discuss this major problem and what we can to combat it. Its just can do to combat it. Its just a couple of weeks until the battle of ideas festival in westminster on 28th 29th of october. On the 28th and 29th of october. Co convenor ella whelan be co convenor ella whelan will be here tell us what to expect here to tell us what to expect from years celebration of from this years celebration of free speech and debate. A former doctor at tavistock trust doctor at the tavistock trust will here to tell us about will be here to tell us about his concerns vulnerable his concerns that vulnerable teenagers confused about teenagers who are confused about their being directed their gender are being directed towards as towards what he describes as trans zing factories and Greg Lukianov and Ricky Schlott will join us from america to discuss their new book, the cancelling of the American Mind. And of course, ive got my fantastic panel here to answer questions from our studio audience, my comedian this evening are comedian guests this evening are paul cox and Lewis Schaefer. Paul cox and Lewis Schaefer. Hello, both. Hello. Welcome back. Thank hello, both. Hello. Welcome back. Thank you, paul. How are you . Im good, thank you, andrew. Thanks for having me back for another week. Any interesting anecdotes from the week . No, nothing interesting this week, had an week, actually. I had an interesting one last week, and thats for the month, basically. All you do . Thats all you do . Thats all you do . Yeah. One a month is yeah. Yeah. One a month is what muster. What i can muster. Interesting life, louis. This is shame. Is a shame. I do. Im doing free speech nafion i do. Im doing free speech nation today. Yeah, nation on sunday today. Yeah, youre today. Youre doing that today. But also youre doing headliners tonight. Schaffer, double headliners tonight. On schaffer, double headliners tonight. On newsxffer, double headliners tonight. On news as� r, double headliners tonight. On news as well. |ble bill on gb news as well. Im with paul cox. Im with paul cox. With cox. With paul cox. With paul cox. Hes tag teaming on so hes like tag teaming on Louis Schaffer. He thinks im you know, hes making me a star. Those tails i never those are the coat tails i never wish to ride. Absolutely. I do apologise for overdose louis for the overdose of Louis Schaffer nevertheless, schaffer tonight. Nevertheless, lets from schaffer tonight. Nevertheless, let audience. From schaffer tonight. Nevertheless, let audience. Weve from schaffer tonight. Nevertheless, let audience. Weve got from the audience. Weve got a question now from ryan. Wheres ryan . Hi, hi ryan . Hi, ryan. Hi is labour good evening. Is labour really to jail people for really going to jail people for misgender ing . Article in the so this was an article in the mail sunday and it was quite mail on sunday and it was quite a provocative title. It talks about how under labour there is about how under labour there is a jail a potential two year jail sentence once misgendering. Sentence once for misgendering. Now interesting, now this is interesting, paul, because is because whats happening is labour to sort of labour are pledging to sort of bolster their existing the existing crime that existing hate crime laws that would aggravation towards would bring aggravation towards trans people within the category of other forms of hate crime. And of course critics have said well, that misgendering well, within that misgendering could be part of it. So some people saying, well, this people are saying, well, this wont then wont actually happen. But then on hand, people have wont actually happen. But then on arrestediand, people have wont actually happen. But then on arrested ind, people have wont actually happen. But then on arrested in thiszople have wont actually happen. But then on arrested in this country ve been arrested in this country for kate a for misgendering. Kate scottow a good there was ended up good example. There was ended up in a prison cell because she referred a man as a woman referred to a man as a woman online. So this isnt trivial, is it . Its not trivial. Its a proposal. And, you know , i think proposal. And, you know, i think we are right to talk about this because labour just keep because if labour just keep pushing with this type pushing fonnard with this type of ideology and saying were going to group these things together, to know what together, they need to know what the consequences are. The knock on consequences are. Its all very good to look in the short term. And you know, if we look at the hate laws as they the short term. And you know, if we now, at the hate laws as they the short term. And you know, if we now, most� hate laws as they the short term. And you know, if we now, most ofite laws as they the short term. And you know, if we now, most of them vs as they the short term. And you know, if we now, most of them ares they are now, most of them are ridiculous. Lets be honest. I i believe they are and believe they are anyway. And they around they sort of centre around religion and sexuality and things like this. If youre going to put misgender ring on top of that, youre going to end up with a lot of people in prison. Well, the problem is that these sort of laws be these sort of laws can be exploited easily. Know, exploited very easily. You know, if you say it is a criminal offence to cause distress, which is some of the is effectively what some of the hate laws say, then hate speech laws say, then anyone i could anyone can say that. I could say, i feel distressed by say, well, i feel distressed by something that youve said. Im often things that something that youve said. Im ofte but things that something that youve said. Im ofte but youre things that something that youve said. Im ofte but youre wrong|ings that something that youve said. Im ofte but youre wrong becauset you but youre wrong because because the operative word there is delivered hate. Because the operative word there is candzred hate. Because the operative word there is cand its hate. Because the operative word there is cand its likes. Like and its like its like shouting fire a fire in in shouting fire in a fire in a in a crowded theatre. In crowded a crowded theatre. In a crowded theatre. Its saying if theatre. Yeah. Its saying if you deliberately try to aggravate somebody and theres a and theres the problem , how and theres the problem, how does the state possibly know what is going on inside your head . It doesnt. So thats why you have to legislate against crimes, not what you crimes, not against what you think were motivations think were the motivations behind othennise, behind the crime. Othennise, thats crime. Thats just thought crime. Because the no, because the Judeo Christian or basis Judeo Christian ethic or basis is whats in your heart. If you run over somebody by accident , run over somebody by accident, yes, you dont get penalised to the same degree as if you run over by somebody deliberately. Thats the distinction. So theyre going after and murder. But even in a murder case and you hit on it, really not even manslaughter, if an manslaughter, if its an accident, not manslaughter. Manslaughter, if its an acc no, t, not manslaughter. Manslaughter, if its an acc no, t, itsat manslaughter. Manslaughter, if its an acc no, t, its manslaughter. Er. Manslaughter, if its an acc no, t, its manslaughter. If no, but its manslaughter. If its an accident, its an accident. Yeah. If you if youve done everything your power accident. Yeah. If you if youve dontoeverything your power accident. Yeah. If you if youve donto runrthing your power accident. Yeah. If you if youve donto run somebody ur power accident. Yeah. If you if youve donto run somebody over. Wer accident. Yeah. If you if youve donto run somebody over. Im not to run somebody over. Im afraid so. Not to run somebody over. Im afreyeah, that is the case, lewis. But but but nevertheless, he does hit an important point does hit on an important point with irish hate crime bill with the irish hate crime bill thats through now. Thats coming through now. Same theyre saying the same thing. Saying theyre thing. Theyre saying theyre going work out the going to have to work out the intention. And cant do intention. And you cant do that. You absolutely cannot that. People misgendering people are misgendering people place at the people all over the place at the moment because the amount of genders exponentially by moment because the amount of genweek. Exponentially by moment because the amount of genweek. Yeah. Xponentially by moment because the amount of genweek. Yeah. So. Nentially by moment because the amount of genweek. Yeah. So. So tially by moment because the amount of genweek. Yeah. So. So how by moment because the amount of genweek. Yeah. So. So how on the week. Yeah. So. So how on earth . Im still piggy trotter. Well, but thats just well, okay, but thats just this week, tony. Okay. But the trouble is, you can never know someones intention because, a, they might not know their intention themselves because they dont know misgendering. Know theyre misgendering. B, they the state they could lie. C the state making a decision about what people is terrifying. Yes. People think is terrifying. Yes. Hes just essentially got to add tolerance into society, which is continually being taken out. Continually being taken out. So heres my problem with it mostly is that really mostly is that im really against the idea of compelled speech. Someone wants to speech. So if someone wants to say about me, as Say Something rude about me, as i do all time, they i say, do all the time, they should able to do that should be able to do that without me going to the police and saying, these people need to speak so speak differently about me. So when someone says when i say when someone says youve the pronouns youve got to use the pronouns that i decide that you use about me, compelling someone me, that is compelling someone to a certain way, that to speak in a certain way, that way, tyranny lies. I happen to with you on i happen to agree with you on that the of it, that point. But the rest of it, i youre wrong. You cant i think youre wrong. You cant you cant tell you can try to tell. And they do this every single day in court. They look for motive behind every single case. They try to do so. They try to do so. They try to do so. Yes, they and whether yes, they do. And whether its murder or getting into an automobile whatever, Automobile Accident or whatever, they it. They do look for it. Paul well, people come up to me all the time and say, what did lewis when he said that did lewis mean when he said that on headliners i dont know. On headliners no, i dont know. On headliners no, no,ont know. On headliners no, no, because v. On headliners no, no, because he doesnt know nobody does. Okay. Were going to move on to a question peter. To a question now from peter. Where is peter . Peter . What should we about hi. What should we do about the rise anti semitism . Um, yes. So obviously weve seen lots so obviously weve seen lots of examples of this this week in fact, for jewish schools in london closed. That was on thursday evening until tomorrow morning. This all come , morning. And this has all come, obviously, in light of these protests in london. People not just flying palestinian flags. Ive seen signs and flags which are supportive of isis , are supportive of isis, supportive of hamas support of terrorists. Thats a thats a development that very few people would have thought wed see on the streets of london in such mass numbers. Yeah theres so many multifaceted things here. Of all, you need first of all, you need education, education about the situation , an education, about situation, an education, about the difference between palestinians and hamas. Palestinians and hamas. Why is that so difficult for people to grasp . Because. Because. Because there others, arent they . There are others, arent they . Theyre foreign. And therefore to people on the far left, anyone whos other or foreign is good. Anything outside of white and british is good no matter what it is. Irrespective of the fact that hamas are clearly the worst thing to happen to the Palestinian People ever. I mean, they are. They are. I mean, they are. They are. Well, this is where they will use them as as shields. They will ensure that the death of their civilians. Death of their own civilians. And care. And they dont care. No, exactly. They put no, exactly. And they put they put their civilians in harms know, make harms way. You know, they make sure are in are sure that civilians are in are wherever statues weapons wherever the statues of weapons are. So when the israelis attack, so they do. The attack, so they do. And if the israelis is israelis say, look, this is where were coming, were coming for this area, theyll say, please out, coming please get out, were coming tomorrow. Hamas tomorrow. Whereas whereas hamas will no, thats just will go, no, no, no, thats just propaganda. There. Will go, no, no, no, thats just pro why nda. There. Will go, no, no, no, thats just pro why does there. Will go, no, no, no, thats just pro why does this there. Will go, no, no, no, thats just pro why does this havelere. Will go, no, no, no, thats just pro why does this have this knock why does this have this knock on effect . Because a lot of people were this week people were surprised this week when matter, an when a black lives matter, an official lives official black lives matter account out a tweet in account put out a tweet in support of palestine, but with an one of the terrorist an image of one of the terrorist paragliders from the attacks last week. So now, of course, people who have known about black lives matter from the start or who read what they actually said on their website, are not surprised by the support for terrorism. Yeah, but a lot of have been surprised. Of people have been surprised. And this conflation of terrorists with palestinian terrorists with with palestinian civilians, on . Civilians, why is that going on . Thats going on because well, thats going on because once upon a time, jews were considered to be like black people or as or black people. Hitler killed the jews because they were the other and they werent aryan. And i think and i think over time, jews have become more and more in the white camp and black lives matter is having a war with white racism. This doesnt make sense because israel, as you know, is ethnically diverse. Theres all sorts of colours. Sorts of skin colours. It is ethnically diverse, but israel was the last ethnic european ethno state and it was created by europe liens. It doesnt even matter if there were jews living there, if there were jews living there, if there were french people or germans or engush were french people or germans or english people, the palestinians , the people who were living there, the population there, the Muslim Population would them out. So you would want them out. So if you look at the map, you just see israel and it says israel was created in 1970 by the Balfour Declaration in 1947 by independence. And theyre considered to be an alien group in in israel. Considered to be an alien group in in israel. Uh, the considered to be an alien group in in israel. Uh, the hatred of in in israel. Uh, the hatred of the jews is set bit. Right. But, but on that question though, louis, the anti semitism question, i think whats shocked a lot of people this week, i mean, its no surprise to anyone that hamas are anti semitic. Yeah, its anti semitism in the , its schools closing in the uk, its schools closing in the uk, its schools closing in the mean, what make the uk. I mean, what do you make of that . Well, because of all that . Well, because because, one, theres because, number one, theres a tremendous number of people whove brought into the whove been brought into the country share english country who dont share english values. Country who dont share english val|and they hate they hate and so they hate they hate the jews. Other side of the jews. Is the other side of it. Is that because you can hate the jews , because the british the jews, because the british people are living are sort people are living here . Are sort of with hatred for of not filled with hatred for the jews . That doesnt mean the rest of the world. Do you think we need a more global sort of understanding of this . This . No, i think and i know many jews well, my parents. Yeah. And i know many jews. And the i know many jews. And the problem of the jews is not like as paul lovely. Hes a lovely guy , paul, but hes wrong all guy, paul, but hes wrong all the time. You can be wrong and the time. You can be wrong and lovely, but hes. Hes like saying, we need more education. We need this, we need that. The fact is, is that the jews, jews are like a starfish on the beach is when the water is too high, they drown. When the water is they drown. When the water is too low, they bake in the sun. Its a very weird position for the jews to be in. There will always be anti semitism from one side or the other. And it just side or the other. And it just it just happens to flow. And thats im not saying its good anti semitism. Thats interesting though on both anti semitism, both sides like anti semitism, people with the far people associate with the far right are used to be but now very much the left are sort very much the far left are sort of taking the lead on this and then change and then and then itll change and then and then itll change and then and then itll change and then and then itll change. Go back again. Itll go back again. Itll go back again. Education though. Thats and education though. Thats interesting because paul, i dont comes to dont think when it comes to some the statements ive some of the statements ive heard this and seen on heard this week and seen on social i think these social media, i think these people beyond i people are beyond reason. I think who that think people who think that jewish people or who would jewish people are or who would excuse mass murder, the decapitation of babies, these horrors , i think youve lost horrors, i think youve lost your humanity at that point. If your humanity at that point. If you if you can find an excuse for that kind of thing. And i dont think you can reason with someone whos allowed their humanity to fall to that extent. No, because they dont they dont wrong. They dont want to be wrong. They want the other person to be wrong. Theyre theyre so wrong. Theyre so theyre so invested right, invested in being right, irrespective what the irrespective of what the question unbelievable. Question is, is unbelievable. I said this the said on twitter this week the hamas terrorist group. Hamas were a terrorist group. There there were many there were there were many comments saying id got comments on there saying id got that hamas is not that wrong. Hamas is not a terrorist group and i havent commented on any of them because what you say . You cant you what do you say . You cant you cant say, to at cant say, we need to look at this situation. Ive said this all need look at all week. We need to look at this particular situation in isolation, because you start isolation, because if you start to whataboutery, you to bring in whataboutery, you say were say things like, oh, there were 40 slaughtered and 40 babies slaughtered and somebody says, what about somebody says, well, what about all a sudden the 40 babies all of a sudden the 40 babies slaughtered just parked over there start another there and we start another discussion . Its madness. Discussion . Yeah, its madness. We focus on whats gone we have to focus on whats gone on and why this is why i say even though im wrong, according to education. To lewis, we need education. Offended by i wouldnt be offended by that. Yeah because lewis is often wrong well, so hes often wrong as well, so hes probably wrong about you being wrong. Yeah, what wrong. Yeah. Yeah, thats what neither right . Neither of us are, right . Its like simultaneous equation. I think hes like. Hes a lovely guy. Is a lovely lovely guy. Paul is a lovely guy, hes, you know, its guy, but hes, you know, its not about loving and, like, you say, their say, hamas, theyve lost their way. They never lost their way. This this is they this is what this is what they believe in, way the way the believe in, the way the way the way islam spread. I hope im right this. Islam right about this. The way islam spread would go across spread is they would go across to a town and theyd say, you either join us or were to going you know, were going to kill everybody. And the way everybody. And this is the way christians did it, too, back in the this is the way the day. This is the way everybody did it. They used to say, were to going kill you all unless us. Unless you join us. The mediaeval well, thats the mediaeval idea of the world, isnt it . Right. When people are right. But when some people are stuck that kind of mediaeval stuck in that kind of mediaeval barbarism, thats a huge problem. Know i dont know if do you know i dont know if theyre stuck in it. I think that doing what they that theyre doing what they think mean, think is necessary. I mean, i dont think what theyre like, dont i think what theyre like, paulis dont i think what theyre like, paul is right. You cant if someone see that killing someone doesnt see that killing babies theres babies is wrong, then theres nothing to them. But nothing you can say to them. But at the same time, theyre thinking that theres equivalence. They think theres equivalence. They think theres equivalence way equivalence in the same way people country think people in this country think what is what israel is doing in gazais what is what israel is doing in gaza is equivalent. But there is also that issue of indoctrination. I saw a very chilling video of children in gaza talking about how when they grow to stab jews, grow up, they want to stab jews, talking about how their teachers tell them jews are vermin tell them that jews are vermin and all this kind of stuff. There is an indoctrination issue when a culture that is when you have a culture that is so of twisted in that way, so kind of twisted in that way, then young people will grow up with those horrible ideas embedded in them and what do you do . How do you break that cycle . Thats not just happening in those countries. Its happening in country and across the in this country and across the west got a 14 year west as well. Ive got a 14 year old daughter and spoken to old daughter and weve spoken to her this and her opinion her about this and her opinion based seen on based on what shed seen on social was she was on the social media was she was on the palestine side because thats the information thats being fed to course, our our job to her. Of course, our our job as speak to her as parents is to speak to her better understand thinks better understand why she thinks that. Give us some of the information, her some information, educate her in some way of way without terrifying her of course. It just goes to course. But it just goes to prove that even at that level across the west , there are across the west, there are people who are encouraging children to support palestine. And what theyre not saying is, is there is a differentiation between hamas and palestine. Between hamas and palestine. Its so important, though, isnt it . So key . It is important. Lewis it is important, but they dont see the difference. I think paul to say and i think for paul to say that hamas is the worst thing to hit i think is wrong. Hit palestine, i think is wrong. Well, they havent done them any favours, they . Any favours, have they . Dont know. You dont know. You dont know. Of the aid that i mean, all of the aid that has gone to hamas who were elected into power in, what, has gone to hamas who were electe all|to power in, what, has gone to hamas who were electe all the|ower in, what, has gone to hamas who were electe all the aider in, what, has gone to hamas who were electe all the aid has. What, has gone to hamas who were electe all the aid has gone. , has gone to hamas who were electe all the aid has gone into 2005, all the aid has gone into producing rocket launchers. And thats why they have thats why they dont have a sanitary sanitation system. Thats why dont have water supplies. Yeah, but youre judging it based on own what yeah, but youre judging it basipalestine own what yeah, but youre judging it basipalestine needs what yeah, but youre judging it basipalestine needs likewhat yeah, but youre judging it basipalestine needs like is1at the palestine needs is like is like in maslows hierarchy. If like in maslows hierarchy. If i remember correctly , you know, at remember correctly, you know, at some point other things are more important than a sewer system. Your own price guide. And i think what hamas has given these people is pride. It sounds like people is pride. It sounds like crazy, but we have to move on to another question. This one is from michael hall. Where is michael . Hi, michael. Hi. Michael. Hi. Our lloyds bank staff particularly sensitive. You would think. I yeah. You would think. I mean, so this is the lloyds banks been in the news because one of the bosses of lloyds bank basically emailed was basically emailed i think it was up members of staff up to 30,000 members of staff and they were offering therapy. They were offering free counselling who counselling for staff who were traumatised by what rishi sunak said at the conservative Party Conference. Now what he said was a man is a man and a woman is a woman. So apparently you need therapy that. That right . Therapy for that. Is that right . Right. Its no, its not right. Its absolutely not right. I mean, the ive the story and the fact ive read the story and its clear to me, but im its not clear to me, but im going to make an assumption that they this before they offered this help before anyone or one anyone came to them or one person to them. Person came to them. It was the director human it was the director of human resources, would be why. Resources, which would be why. So justification of so this is justification of their own job. Whats there. Thats whats happened there. Its a surveyor going into its like a surveyor going into your house youre trying your house before youre trying to theyve find to sell it. Theyve got to find something. Othennise on something. Othennise what on earth paying them for . Earth are you paying them for . So the director has to so the director of hr has to say, crikey, are you affected say, oh crikey, are you affected by what rishi sunak said . And then theyll will be then theyll will inevitably be people couple people going, id love a couple of work. So yes, im of days off work. So yes, im terribly affected. Yeah, but look, i know i saw of look, i know i saw a lot of people online about people commenting online about how upset they were, about what happened party, what happened at the tory party, what was party was said at the tory Party Conference, i dont conference, and i dont disbelieve but then, you disbelieve them, but then, you know, supporters know, conservative supporters are likely to be upset what are likely to be upset by what they hear at labour Party Conference. We just have hr right . We cant just have hr departments saying need departments saying that we need counselling someone counselling every time someone says something, we disagree with. You can run, but you well, you can run, but you cant say it. Whats the point . Louis point is, as paul louis the point is, as paul points one guy points out, its just one guy pressing send button to pressing the send button to 30,000. Very easy to do. 30,000. Its very easy to do. And its of pathetic, and its kind of pathetic, though, isnt it . Is though, isnt it . It is pathetic. As ive said many pathetic. But as ive said many times, were in a war. Were in a war. And once the big war is the war between team, the war between world team, world between world and localism, between individual rights and localism and team world, which is like we all have feelings and weve got to care about everybody. And we, you know, everybodys kumbaya and gets so it is crazy. And gets along. So it is crazy. But i understand where it comes from. And the truth is the truth from. And the truth is the truth is, ive listened to some of these Party Conference bosses. They are really horrible no matter what it is. The labour, the conservatives, the lib dems, probably the worst, less boring more than anything. More than anything. Yeah, exactly. Except for the lib conference. Tim farron lib dem conference. Tim farron got booed. Was quite exciting. But i was listening to the tory conference and you know, rishi is not going do rishi sunak is not going to do anything that needs to do. Anything that he needs to do. Hes to something and hes got to do something and hes anything. Hes not doing anything. Nothing. He said that was controversial. Asking controversial. I was asking for it. There nothing he said there was nothing he said that controversial. But the that was controversial. But the but but conservative are but the but the conservative are shouting action shouting out for action on. Yeah. Hes giving them yeah. And hes giving them basically Keir Starmers line. Well something. Okay. Weve got time for just one quick question from julie. Wheres julie . Hi, hi wheres julie . Hi, julie. Hi sacked for should you be sacked for criticising road signs . Criticising road signs . Yeah, this is a professor. This sounds made up. Its not nigel hunt. Oh, hes lost his position. He was a visiting position. He was a visiting psychology professor at wrexham university, and it was just a comment he made on social media and he was talking about road signs specifically he signs specifically, he was talking the that in talking about the fact that in wales, signs are wales, the road signs are bilingual , wales, the road signs are bilingual, which means, of course, read them in a course, you cant read them in a hurry it can a little bit hurry and it can be a little bit confusing. He was just saying that there danger related that there is a danger related to and he lost his job. To that and he lost his job. Isnt that odd . Well, if youd asked me that five ago, would have five years ago, i would have said its very odd, andrea. Said yes. Its very odd, andrea. But , sat here seems but today, sat here seems perfectly normal , doesnt it . But today, sat here seems perfe |t normal , doesnt it . But today, sat here seems perfe it seems1l , doesnt it . But today, sat here seems perfe it seems likeioesnt it . But today, sat here seems perfe it seems like the nt it . But today, sat here seems perfe it seems like the sort . But today, sat here seems perfe it seems like the sort of yeah. It seems like the sort of thing that would happen on a daily basis and does. Its daily basis and it does. Its absolutely crazy. Of course, this is another i mean, im going to this. I feel like going to say this. I feel like lewis infected some lewis has infected me in some way. But but this is this way. But this but this is this is this is team world because it is. Ill tell you why it is because lewis has no what because lewis has no idea what it means im just he it means yet. But im just he keeps telling me i should use it. My image. It. Itll improve my image. Okay. Because this is this okay. Its because this is this is feelings over science and fact again. So all this guy fact once again. So all this guy is youre in a is arguing is if youre in a situation where youre stressed and driving need to make and driving and you need to make and driving and you need to make a decision easier, a quick decision in half easier, if is 5 of you speak english if 95 is 5 of you speak english to read english on the sign. Okay. Well, this is the point about this everyone who speaks this is that everyone who speaks welsh also speaks english. Yeah. So really no it so theres really no when it comes and safety comes to health and safety issue, really reason. Issue, theres really no reason. Now, i welsh speakers, now, i know welsh speakers, there real zealotry there is a lot of real zealotry about these kind things. You about these kind of things. You know, down signs if know, people tear down signs if theyre bilingual. I no theyre not bilingual. I have no problem with bilingual signs. If youre going to the theatre, if youre going to the theatre, if youre going to the theatre, if youre going to youre going, if youre going to a where there a waiting room where there are signs thats an issue. Signs up, thats not an issue. Have bilingual sign a road have a bilingual sign on a road where need a split second. Where you need a split second. You to be able to see you need to be able to see something very quickly. Then surely ideology be surely your ideology should be subsumed the idea of, of subsumed to the idea of, of course, someone safety, because before theyll before you know it, theyll start ideology to start applying ideology to Health Regulations health and safety regulations which are bonkers anyway. To but if you want feelings to health and safety, we are in a whole world of trouble. Well all be walking in all be Walking Around in protective all be Walking Around in prolewis� all be Walking Around in pro lewis any thoughts on lewis any thoughts on bilingual road signs . I do have thoughts on yeah, i do have thoughts on it. What they it. Its basically what they want. Want the people want. They want the welsh people want. They want the welsh people want their want to bring back their language and is well, language and which is well, thats actually true. Thats not actually true. I mean, for instance, i have a welsh friends who dont speak welsh to welsh and what theyve said to me out to me is that me and pointed out to me is that actually predominantly the welsh speakers middle class, speakers are upper middle class, theyre the posh people because theyre the posh people because they to those they were able to go to those posh schools that teach welsh and working class. Posh schools that teach welsh and peoplevorking class. Posh schools that teach welsh and people generallyiss. Posh schools that teach welsh and people generally dont welsh people generally dont speak sure speak welsh, so im not sure youre right about that. I meant as a generalisation, as the state, the welsh state, the people, lets say, the welsh people, lets say, yes, to it back, yes, they want to bring it back, but already there. But its already there. Speak welsh. People cant speak welsh. People cant speak welsh. I know, but it was no, i know, but it was basically a dead language because the english stopped them from from using it. True. Historically. Yes its true. Historically. Yes its true. Historically. Yes seems like a good and so it seems like a good idea their point view. Idea from their point of view. In the way that when the in the same way that when the jews re birthed yes, it jews re birthed hebrew, yes, it was good idea to create a but was a good idea to create a but im objecting to the idea im not objecting to the idea that rejuvenation that the rejuvenation of a language that i am. Okay. Okay. Louis im talking specifically about road signs and what and about the pragmatism of what happens are put at happens when people are put at risk anyway. Look, havent risk anyway. Look, we havent got more in this got time for any more in this section, next on speech section, but next on free speech nation, earlier, nation, as mentioned earlier, the in israel the tragic violence in israel and has had profound and and gaza has had profound and sad implications british sad implications for british jews spiked jews. Tom slater from spiked will to discuss the will be here to discuss the shocking rise in anti semitic incidents. Anywhere incidents. Do not go anywhere near gaza to gb news radio show. Welcome back to free speech nafion. Nation. The biggest news story of the week has obviously been the devastating violence which has occurred in the middle east, which began when the terrorist group hamas launched an unprecedent on israel unprecedent assault on israel last around 1300 people last weekend around 1300 people were killed by group. Dozens were killed by the group. Dozens taken hostage, prompting retaliatory airstrikes by israel into gaza , which has killed over into gaza, which has killed over 2000 people in israel, is now preparing for a Ground Invasion of the strip. The violence in israel and gaza has had terrible consequences people consequences for jewish people here at home. Theres been a quadrupling in anti semitic incidents in the week. Some incidents in the last week. Some jewish schools closed on friday due to concerns over the safety of pupils. And seems that of pupils. And it seems that anti semitism remains a problem in britain. Tom slater has been writing about this subject for spiked this week. He joins me now. Tom, to the show. Now. Tom, welcome to the show. Thank obviously, this is thank you. Obviously, this is a horrible story. There seems to be of certainty amongst be a degree of certainty amongst some the comments ive seen some of the comments ive seen online, the things that online, some of the things that protesters been saying. Protesters have been saying. They this very much they have reduced this very much to a narrative of good versus evil. Is it that that young evil. Why is it that that young people certain about this people are so certain about this incredibly political incredibly complex political situation . I think its a combination of things. I guess i think what weve seen out onto our own seen spill out onto our own streets in recent days terms streets in recent days in terms of celebration hamas in of open celebration of hamas in some mocking some instances almost mocking nods to the killers, people Walking Around london with stickers their backs of stickers on their backs of paragliders which obvious paragliders, which is an obvious nod the people who were paragliders, which is an obvious nod into people who were paragliders, which is an obvious nod into southern ho were paragliders, which is an obvious nod into southern israelre paragliders, which is an obvious nod into southern israel in flying into southern israel in order to murder people. I think theres on the one hand, there is a kind islamist is a kind of islamist anti semitism, which is obviously something which we need seriously. Need to take very seriously. Thats ingrained, it . Thats ingrained, isnt it . Exactly only been exactly and its not only been whats attacks, whats fuelled these attacks, but fuelled of but its also fuelled some of the whataboutery and excuse making celebration in making and even celebration in the think thats with the uk. I think thats met with a kind woke anti semitism, if a kind of woke anti semitism, if you a kind of way in which you like, a kind of way in which identity politics has rehabilitated or provided cover for anti semitism because of these crude hierarchies of victimhood in some bizarre way, the jews who have been so incredibly, historically oppressed, slaughtered and so on, have been just assigned as whites , even hyper white, whites, even hyper white, according to the of pyramid according to the sort of pyramid of and oppression of victimhood and oppression that exists. And as a consequence of that, people genuinely struggle to see the slaughter of innocents, including infants. But even including infants. But even outside of that framework, its really racial. I mean, there are many, many brown israelis , so it just brown israelis, so itjust doesnt work this. Oh, no , these doesnt work this. Oh, no, these people are ignorant as much as anything else actual anything else of the actual conflict that theyre talking about. As you say, israel is an incredibly diverse country. It really in terms of really doesnt work in terms of the it also doesnt the framing. It also doesnt work how are you work insofar as how are you talking about these people being oppressors meaningful oppressors in any meaningful way when at a when they were gunned down at a Music Festival or in own Music Festival or in their own homes. This doesnt make any sense. Were civilians, but sense. These were civilians, but these are the sorts of ideologies were dealing with. Think a lot of this does i think a lot of this does expose the power of ideology to sort of rob of our basic sort of rob us of our basic humanity, because ive humanity, right . Because ive really this week to really struggled this week to understand mean, know understand and i mean, i know that very passionate that people are very passionate views israel palestine. And views on israel palestine. And even that even if you take the view that the palestinian have been the Palestinian People have been oppressed and subjugated, et cetera, people do, how cetera, as many people do, how can you then leap from that to justifying the actions we saw last week . I cant square it. I dont understand how you can do that and still retain your humanity. I think the problem here is the fact that especially when you talk about people in the west are watching west who are watching this conflict safety conflict from the safety of their london engaging their london flats, engaging with the basis of a with it only on the basis of a screen, think of the screen, i think one of the things that weve really got to confront here is this proves that has never been about that this has never been about palestine in palestine for these people in the place. Yeah, the first place. Yeah, anti semitism has in many anti semitism has come in many different historically. Different forms historically. Originally religious originally it was a religious hatred, it became a racial hatred, then it became a racial hatred. Its very much hatred. Now its very much projected israel itself. Projected on to israel itself. You anti semitic you see classic anti semitic tropes controlling tropes about jews controlling the delighting in the the world or delighting in the murder of babies, is murder of babies, which is grimly ironic the context of grimly ironic in the context of what talking about being what were talking about being a classic anti semitic slurs which are now just presented onto israel i when you israel. And i think when you have who are rushing out have people who are rushing out into to celebrate into the streets to celebrate the murder of israeli civilians who jewish, who predominantly jewish, israeli , what israeli civilians, what conclusion draw other conclusion can we draw other than the fact that the worlds oldest made a grim oldest hatred has made a grim comeback that sense . Comeback in that sense . The other thing that and the other thing that weve seen i mean, a lot of people have struggled to understand deny understand how anyone can deny the right. The holocaust, right. Because the holocaust, right. Because the there. So the evidence is just there. So ovennhelming. Mountains of books have charting and have been written charting and documenting of documenting the full evidence of the the holocaust. Documenting the full evidence of the yet the holocaust. Documenting the full evidence of the yet tihavelocaust. Documenting the full evidence of the yet tihave persisted in and yet people have persisted in denying but this week weve denying it. But this week weve seen people deny what hamas have done, though done, even though theyve theyve own theyve released their own videos did and videos of what they did and boasted it. And yet youve boasted about it. And yet youve still saying, well , still got people saying, well, no, werent killed still got people saying, well, nothis werent killed still got people saying, well, nothis didnt werent killed still got people saying, well, nothis didnt happen. Nt killed still got people saying, well, nothis didnt happen. Thisilled still got people saying, well, nothis didnt happen. This iszd or this didnt happen. This is fake news. Whats happening there . There an absolute there was an absolute grotesque which took there was an absolute grotesthis which took there was an absolute grotesthis week, which took there was an absolute grotesthis week, which hich took there was an absolute grotesthis week, which hich over place this week, which was over this question infants this question about infants being again, a couple being murdered. Again, a couple of not of claims which were not actually a particular actually made by a particular journalist were manned, mangled together, the together, misrepresented the claim. Therefore, they said that these journalists line theyre claiming 44 have been claiming 44 babies have been beheaded. Journalist had ever beheaded. No journalist had ever claimed incidentally. But claimed that, incidentally. But essentially this essentially it became this incredibly discussion, essentially it became this incred is y discussion, essentially it became this incred is to discussion, essentially it became this incred is to say, discussion, essentially it became this incred is to say, well, ision, essentially it became this incred is to say, well, they which is to say, well, they might have been murdered, but they werent beheaded. And you think if were getting into a situation were quibbling situation where were quibbling about method about the number and the method through children through which jewish children were killed, you are getting into kind of Holocaust Denial territory. Of territory. It had such echoes of the say, dont dont the people who say, dont dont get wrong. Im sure it get me wrong. Im sure it happened and it was bad, but it wasnt 6 million. Has very wasnt 6 million. It has a very similar to i think similar tenor to it. And i think we need to take that very, very seriously. And what about the question of anti semitism within britain and schools and of anti semitism within britain and kind schools and of anti semitism within britain and kind of schools and of anti semitism within britain and kind of thing . Schools and of anti semitism within britain and kind of thing . Ichools and of anti semitism within britain and kind of thing . I mean, and that kind of thing . I mean, people are genuinely scared at the moment. And its as say, the moment. And its as you say, you know, on the streets you know, people on the streets openly terrorism. It openly celebrating terrorism. It doesnt secure as doesnt make you feel secure as part community. Part of that community. It doesnt. And i think gentiles, were, needs to gentiles, as it were, needs to take responsibility for take a lot of responsibility for allowing get bad. Allowing things to get this bad. And making sure that and also for making sure that our british jewish brothers and sisters feel a lot safer and supported point because supported at this point because this on a this has been going on for a very long time. One of the fascinating things about britain and other countries that and many other countries is that we about racism, we talk endlessly about racism, often point of often to the point of triviality, microaggressions and so day so on. Things you talk about day in, in terms of where in, day out in terms of where the left is going wrong and anti racism, yet anti semitism. The left is going wrong and anti racismost yet anti semitism. The left is going wrong and anti racismost historically semitism. The left is going wrong and anti racismost historically vicious m. The most historically vicious form racism, is still a form of racism, is still a genuine problem in this country. And dont about it and yet we dont talk about it at their point 5 of at all. Their point 5 of the population, victims 25 population, the victims of 25 of religiously motivated of the religiously motivated hate when i say hate hate crimes. And when i say hate crimes, i dont mean people saying things on the saying mean things on the internet. Talking about internet. Im talking about jewish cemeteries being desecrated. Kent desecrated. Theres one in kent thats eight desecrated. Theres one in kent thats in eight desecrated. Theres one in kent thats in ten eight desecrated. Theres one in kent thats in ten years. Eight desecrated. Theres one in kent thats in ten years. People|ht times in ten years. People arent aware of these stories. So of course, come to a so of course, its come to a head now and really vicious fashion. Is something fashion. But this is something thats time and thats been flaring up time and time recent and time again in recent years, and yet its been ignored. Is it such a blind but why is it such a blind spot . I mean, i dont understand. For the people who claim be on side of claim to be on the side of social justice, how can this as you say, the history is clear, so they those who claim so how can they those who claim to justice and to be for social justice and progressivism such a blind progressivism have such a blind spotin progressivism have such a blind spot in this case . Think a whole mix of i think its a whole mix of things. I its the jews things. I think its the jews dont phenomenon, as david things. I think its the jews dont hasphenomenon, as david things. I think its the jews dont has talked1enon, as david things. I think its the jews dont has talked about as david things. I think its the jews dont has talked about it, David Baddiel has talked about it, which is that we seem to care about every Identity Group apart from identity from every oppressed Identity Group, apart from group, i should say, apart from this i think, this particular one. I think, you know, there might be a background just being background of people just being unaware is taking unaware that this is taking place. Very place. Its a very small community, but think weve got community, but i think weve got to recognise that there been to recognise that there has been a has been a downplaying of what has been going on because the treatment of jewish people not of the jewish people does not fit script and fit the identitarian script and therefore to kind be therefore it has to kind of be pushed to one side. And thats something really to something which really needs to stop think what stop right now. I think what about debates surrounding multiculturalism . Lot of because this week a lot of people said, look, we are people have said, look, we are seeing people openly celebrating the mass murder civilians on the mass murder of civilians on the mass murder of civilians on the this is proof that the streets. This is proof that multicultural failed. Do multicultural ism has failed. Do you connecting you think they are connecting the a a way there . I think its definitely a part of this discussion. I think its important that when its important to say that when were about the were talking about the phenomenon in phenomenon of anti semitism in britain, exclusively phenomenon of anti semitism in britairbritish exclusively phenomenon of anti semitism in britairbritish muslims. Usively about british muslims necessarily. This is not exclusively about one particular group. All group. If you think about all the anti semitism in the the kind of anti semitism in the labour which existed, the kind of anti semitism in the labnthere which existed, the kind of anti semitism in the labnthere is which existed, the kind of anti semitism in the labnthere is clearly existed, the kind of anti semitism in the labnthere is clearly a existed, the kind of anti semitism in the labnthere is clearly a problem i, but there is clearly a problem with a kind of form of islamist anti semitism, has been anti semitism, which has been propagandised you can see that muslim youth. You can see that on streets london, some on the streets of london, some of protests, we cant of these protests, we cant ignore that. And i also think theres a tremendous racism to assuming that this these issues cant necessarily be tackled. You in some of you saw it even in some of the discussions the attacks you saw it even in some of the discusessentiallye attacks you saw it even in some of the discus essentially , attacks you saw it even in some of the discus essentially , the cks you saw it even in some of the discusessentially , the problem itself, essentially, the problem with is not with multiculturalism is not the fact in a diverse fact that we live in a Diverse Society there are British Society where there are british muslims people muslims and jewish people and hindu thats hindu people and so on. Thats not criticising. Not what people criticising. Most criticise most people criticise multiculturalism most people criticise multi isturalism most people criticise multi is aralism most people criticise multi is a wayn most people criticise multi is a way in which we have mean is a way in which we have essentially introduced a kind of non judgmental ism that if that one persons supposedly kind of authentic cultural beliefs , even authentic cultural beliefs, even if theyre deeply reactionary, shouldnt be challenged in any meaningful sense , that we should meaningful sense, that we should issue any of shared values issue any sense of shared values that we have in common, which i hope at least that hope would at least include that murdering a bad murdering babies is a bad thing. And problem and i think thats the problem that debate, that weve got in this debate, is people say is that when people say multiculturalism, think, multiculturalism, people think, oh, the oh, youre just criticising the fact diverse britain. Not fact of a diverse britain. Not in slightest. The issue in the slightest. The issue is that non judgmental that that non judgmental ism that destruction of of a kind destruction of a sense of a kind of set values we of shared set of values that we can around, and that can all rally around, and that inability to take seriously these prejudices when they arise because a nervousness because theres a nervousness about tackling them depending on which coming from. Well, suppose people see well, i suppose people see it as theyre nervous about the idea islam idea of attacking islam generally. And, you know , when generally. And, you know, when Trevor Phillips did his survey of british muslims and found that a small, slight majority believed that homosexuality should be illegal, well, thats not trivial. Thats actually a significant thing that ought to be addressed, not for gay be addressed, not least for gay muslims, way. But muslims, by the way. But suddenly were denying it suddenly people were denying it and is just and saying, no, this is just islamophobic. And saying, no, this is just islamophobic. Surely there is islamophobic. Surely if there is a a community of a problem within a community of a problem within a community of a form of bigotry, its a certain form of bigotry, its worth addressing at the very least, rather than denying it, it is worth addressing. Think its also important i think its also important that these people i think its also important thapart these people i think its also important thapart of these people i think its also important thapart of own lese people i think its also important thapart of own community. Are part of our own community. Is is nation, are is this is our nation, these are our fellow citizens, our neighbours friends so our fellow citizens, our neigso ours friends so our fellow citizens, our neigso this friends so our fellow citizens, our neigso this is friends so our fellow citizens, our neigso this is not� iends so our fellow citizens, our neigso this is not somethingso on. So this is not something that we compartmentalise at that we can compartmentalise at the where there is a the same time where there is a specific problem, we specific problem, of course we should on. And should tackle it head on. And when essentially equate when we essentially equate it hardline religiously conservative or even kind of islamist position with if we equate criticising that with islamophobia , youre throwing islamophobia, youre throwing liberal muslims under the bus, youre throwing, as you say, gay muslims under the bus. Youre throwing ex muslims under the bus because youre suggesting that these people who are potentially going out in the streets of london saying yesterday glorifying hamas streets of london saying yesthe ay glorifying hamas streets of london saying yesthe authenticnrifying hamas streets of london saying yesthe authentic ,ifying hamas are the authentic, quintessential voice of british muslims. Thats a deeply muslims. Thats a deeply reactionary racist position reactionary and racist position to hold it almost assumes that, of course, theyre never going to be liberal and enlightened. Its dna. Its its just not in their dna. Its a ugly prejudice, in a really ugly prejudice, in fact, politically fact, packaged in politically correct form, i think. Very interesting. Okay. Well, very interesting. Im a lot more to im sure theres a lot more to talk this future weeks. Talk about this in future weeks. Tom thanks much for tom slater, thanks so much for joining tom slater, thanks so much for joirthank you. And next on free thank you. And next on free speech nation in two weekends time, well once again be at the battle of ideas for our annual special program. Special program. The co convener of the event ella whelan , will be here to ella whelan, will be here to tell us what to expect from this years tell us what to expect from this years festival of free speech and debate. Dont go anywhere. And debate. Dont go anywhere. Gb news radio. Welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me. Andrew doyle. This years battle of ideas festival will be held at church house in westminster on the 28th and 29th of october. October followed by another event at Devonshire Dome in buxton on the 25th of november for the westminster event will feature over 100 debates, almost 400 speakers and debate is the key word because all sides of the argument are heard from and free speech is definitely the order of the day. No question of anyone being no platformed or cancelled the audience will be a huge part of the debates with time aside at the for time set aside at the end for people to ask questions and give their views. So the third their views. So for the third year free speech year in a row, free speech nafion year in a row, free speech nation will be filming a special episode festival. Be episode at the festival. Ill be there will co convenor there and so will co convenor ella who now. Ella whelan, who joins me now. Ella, show. Tell ella, welcome to the show. Tell us about it. Battle of ideas us all about it. Battle of ideas festival this now . Festival. What year is this now . How have you been doing . 17, i believe. 16 or 17. Okay. Its been you know, weve gotten and bigger gotten bigger and bigger and bigger each year, taking on shows yourself, shows like yourself, were delighted going to delighted that this is going to be year of free speech be the third year of free speech nation, and youre going to be in conversation with graham nation, and youre going to be in conveasition with graham nation, and youre going to be in conve asition ers graham nation, and youre going to be in conve asition ers very am linehan as well. Yes very exciting. Tom slater, who exciting. And tom slater, who you just from, going to you just heard from, is going to have podcast there. You just heard from, is going to have last podcast there. You just heard from, is going to havelast orders podcast there. You just heard from, is going to havelast orders and ast there. You just heard from, is going to havelast orders and thingsere. You just heard from, is going to havelast orders and things like and last orders and things like that. Also , as you that. But also, as you mentioned, got this sort mentioned, weve got this sort of the battle becomes this sprawling event that covers, you know, all different kinds of areas of public life, whether its your standard politics sort of sessions like whats going to happenif of sessions like whats going to happen if labour gets into power after a general election speculative kind of session like that. Speculative kind of session like that. Economy strands looking at that. Economy strands looking at whats happening in the world of business with edi and diverse initiatives and all the rest of it to whether or not the uk is a basket case when it comes to the economy and then sort of, you know, things that are very of the moment. Weve got whole the moment. Weve got a whole strand and what were strand on. I and what were really in looking at really interested in looking at is or not our sort of is whether or not our sort of the government seems to be moving being the best in moving towards being the best in the world at regulating ai. And we question of we want to ask the question of whether really or whether whether thats really or whether thats making full thats really making full advantage of ais potentials or whether of whether thats kind of pessimistic, whether its going whether thats kind of pessirtheic, whether its going whether thats kind of pessirtheic, wof her its going whether thats kind of pessirtheic, wof her its things to be the end of art and things like theres sort of like that. So theres sort of more niche things like looking like that. So theres sort of m the1iche things like looking like that. So theres sort of m the world hings like looking like that. So theres sort of m the world ofigs like looking like that. So theres sort of m the world of neurodiversityj at the world of neurodiversity and asking questions about whether were all neurodiverse now weve got someone called david swift working thats really exciting and arts sessions around and know balloon debate on whats the best screen adaptation. So theres really something for everyone there. But the kind of ones i wanted to mention was , you know, the part mention was, you know, the part of the difficulty in planning a festival like this, because we start course, and start last year, of course, and weve had this, you know, previous years where you think you might have one session on russia and suddenly the war russia and then suddenly the war happens ukraine. And so were happens in ukraine. And so were sort thinking on our sort of used to thinking on our feet. This year has been feet. But this year has been theres its been theres been its been particularly volatile in politics, as it happens, politics, which, as it happens, we think good thing because we think is a good thing because , change is always , you know, change is always theres always something to talk about to change. And about in relation to change. And stagnation the big stagnation is sort of the big evil of our time, i think. But if take an issue like if you take an issue like conversion yes, mean, conversion therapy, yes, i mean, weve to fro in that in weve been to and fro in that in this country for last, you weve been to and fro in that in this c well, for last, you weve been to and fro in that in this c well, for months , you weve been to and fro in that in this c well, for months now. The know, well, for months now. The governments saying they will ban though they wont ban it, though they wont ban it. This loophole, it. Therell be this loophole, though. There wont be this loophole. Scrapped loophole. Then it gets scrapped and then the Labour Party Anneliese Dodds in and her Anneliese Dodds comes in and her speech says, speech at conference and says, we scrap we we will absolutely scrap it. We will make sure theres will we will make sure theres no loopholes at all. So were having on which having a session on that which we previously thought maybe we wouldnt. Are going to wouldnt. But we are going to talk that. Were also talk about that. Were also going be talking some going to be talking about some of that weve of the issues that weve previously whether previously planned, like whether or how far protests should go , or how far protests should go, which previously we envisaged as something that would look at just oil extinction Just Stop Oil extinction rebellion. But of course now its going look at some of its going to look at some of the, know, pro palestine the, you know, pro palestine protests. You know, thinking protests. Yes you know, thinking about whether its the right thing for Emmanuel Macron to ban pro palestine protests in france. I dont think it is. Or, france. I dont think it is. Or, you know, where does protest end and hate speech begin and all that stuff that youre very familiar with talking about on free speech nation, we really want to get into this is the great thing the festival great thing about the festival is sort of cover everything. You and a lot of you know and what a lot of people havent been before people who havent been before might know, might not realise is, you know, its weekend. You turn its a whole weekend. You turn up any given time during the up at any given time during the day, there what, up to ten day, there are, what, up to ten different can different debates. You can choose attend. You can choose to attend. So you can really for really sort of decide for yourself what experience you have and the have of the weekend and the other love other great thing, which i love is session built is that every session has built into it the idea that the audience get involved. They audience can get involved. They stand make arguments. Audience can get involved. They starget make arguments. Audience can get involved. They starget a make arguments. Audience can get involved. They starget a back make arguments. Audience can get involved. They starget a back and e arguments. Audience can get involved. They starget a back and forth. |ments. Audience can get involved. They starget a back and forth. Iients. Audience can get involved. They starget a back and forth. I mean, audience can get involved. They starwist a back and forth. I mean, audience can get involved. They starwis really k and forth. I mean, audience can get involved. They starwis really k ancis rth. I mean, audience can get involved. They starwis really k ancis so]. I mean, audience can get involved. They starwis really k ancis so needed n, this is really what is so needed at moment. At the moment. Yeah, well, mean, actually, yeah, well, i mean, actually, with respect to our with the greatest respect to our speakers and for speakers who come and do it for nothing and theyre, you know, experts , the experts in their field, the audience were most audience is what were most interested speakers interested in. So the speakers get bit of time at the get a little bit of time at the start, maybe five minutes set start, maybe five minutes to set out and then its out their stall and then its straight of town straight into a kind of town hall debate of we dont hall style debate of we dont just ask people to ask questions. Some of the best. In fact, some of the best speeches ever heard much speeches ive ever heard as much as it gets you know, as a chair, it gets you know, you have to stop people from making but the making manifest those. But the best ive ive best speeches ive ive encountered have been from audience and think audience members. And i think theres feeling in sort of theres this feeling in sort of theres this feeling in sort of the country right now where theres a lot of shouting at the television and theres a lot of political apathy or despondency, a of, you know, desire to a kind of, you know, a desire to be in something, but an be involved in something, but an unwillingness your unwillingness to give your support these sort of support to any of these sort of fairly useless sides of political, political parties. Political, political parties. And i think people come with a kind of desire that they have to have heard. Yes, we have their voices heard. Yes, we think you know, the think thats, you know, the heart of populism, the heart of democracy, free democracy, the heart of free speech idea that you have speech is the idea that you have an open public debate. So come and have your say. And you know, free speech allowed. As we say, its not encouraged. Its its not just encouraged. Its central to all of our work. Yeah, absolutely brilliant. As say, ill hosting free as you say, ill be hosting free speech on the speech nation live there on the saturday which will saturday afternoon, which will then the also, then go out on the sunday. Also, im talking to graham linehan, creator ted , about his creator of father ted, about his new book. So theres all sorts creator of father ted, about his nestuff k. So theres all sorts creator of father ted, about his nestuff k. So on. es all sorts creator of father ted, about his nestuff k. So on. Brilliantyrts of stuff going on. Brilliant discounts for school pupils. They barely pay nothing anything really day. Really free day. And then the next day its if youre a student or you work in stem £27. 50, which is a stem, its £27. 50, which is a huge discount. Yeah, weve got all kinds of different promo codes and discounts for any kind of Campaign Groups that youre organised most organised with. But most importantly reason came importantly, the reason i came in rather flattering getup in this rather flattering getup is if you want to, if you is that if you want to, if you dont have any which lots dont have any cash, which lots of us dont at the moment, and you cant afford the tickets, that barrier stopping that isnt a barrier to stopping you to festival. You from going to the festival. You can volunteer with us. You get these fancy outfits get one of these fancy outfits and us run the and you help us run the microphones. And it really is just a few hours for just a few hours help for a complete free pass to the entire festival. Its great way to the its a great way to see the debate know, meet debate and, you know, meet speakers, members. Speakers, meet audience members. Think we have and also, i think we have this the festival this thing at the festival called market, where this thing at the festival cal i� d market, where this thing at the festival cali mean market, where this thing at the festival cali mean campaigniet, where this thing at the festival cali mean Campaign Groupsere this thing at the festival cali mean Campaign Groups from all i mean Campaign Groups from weve coming down, weve got feed coming down, which organisation looking which is an organisation looking at formula provision for poverty stricken families. Weve got sex matters, got all kinds of matters, weve got all kinds of free, free speech, union loads of different organisations. We throw into tight space throw them into a tight space and of Wander Around and you kind of Wander Around the stalls and meet people. Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, its a fantastic people go to w fantastic so people can go to w battle dot org. Uk and battle of ideas dot org. Uk and you can buy a pass for one day or both days. Its a brilliant event. Ella, thanks much event. Ella, thanks so much for joining. And next joining us. Thank you. And next on free speech nation womens rights group filia managed to hold a conference in glasgow this week despite an Intimidation Campaign waged by trans activists to try and shut the conference down. One of the Conference Attendees will join us to explain what happened. See you in a moment welcome back to free speech nation. An event organised by womens rights group filia successfully went ahead in glasgow this weekend despite attempts to shut it down by trans activists. Susan smith, a director of for Women Scotland , director of for Women Scotland, attended the event. She joins me now. Susan, can you hear me . Now. Susan, can you hear me . Thanks for joining now. Susan, can you hear me . Thanks forjoining me. Now. Susan, can you hear me . Thanks forjoining me. Yes. Thanks for joining me. Yes. Could you tell us a little bit about the event, the filia event that it took place in glasgow this weekend . This weekend . So filia is the largest feminist conference in europe, possibly the world, but the data is not there. But its huge. And there were 1500 women there this weekend. Um, there were another , weekend. Um, there were another, i think 800 on the waiting list. You couldnt get tickets. So you couldnt get tickets. So its a massive event. It its a massive event. It features women from all over the world covering lots of topics. So youve got people coming in from countries like iran and afghanistan talking about specific issues in their countries, talking about things like fgm , about forced marriage , like fgm, about forced marriage, about, you know, male violence, all these things. Its um, but its about womens issues and womens rights and because of that, its been targeted by people who dont actually like the idea of women having a conference to talk about things that affect women, which is shocking because filia is not out there to talk about trans issues, but theyve decided to target it anyway. Target it anyway. And we saw footage of people outside the conference screaming abuse at women going along to discuss their rights. It was quite shocking. Did you see any quite shocking. Did you see any of the protest . S i quite shocking. Did you see any of the protest . S i didnt. I didnt get there on on friday morning, but i saw i saw the footage of it. And i know the footage of it. And i know the individual people who was leading that. He has protested events that we have done. He protests did an event at glasgow sorry, at edinburgh university, not so long ago. He shouts abuse. You know, he just he was shouting fyou at women in the shouting f you at women in the line. He the university. I remember he was shouting ages comments. He was saying you all smell you know, hes hes childish and stupid and offensive of um an and he then went on because hed been kind of caught out because people came back and said but actually this conference is about a very broad range of topics. What issue do you have with some of the organisations . And they were cited at him who were there , who cited at him who were there, who he would probably pretend he supports. He said , oh no, supports. He said, oh no, i wasnt shouting at them, i was just shouting at the bigots. Just shouting at the bigots. Well, i mean, thats interesting, isnt it, being there in a queue. Know which one of them is being abused. When blake with a microphone is yelling at them . I mean, this kind of thing suggests misogyny still suggests that misogyny is still very doesnt very much a problem, doesnt it . And thats of reasons and thats one of the reasons why conference so needed. Why the conference is so needed. Yeah absolutely. But, you know, to me, the thing that was i think the most shocking because i expected idiots like that to do this because theyre stupid and they dont know what theyre about. But there were two glasgow counsellors standing next to him now one of them is trans, um, and was quoted in the press as saying, well , i want this saying, well, i want this conference to go, but it was the language of abusers really , i language of abusers really, i want this to happen, but i want them to do it my way , right . And them to do it my way, right . And then ill let them. So that was, then ill let them. So that was, that was one thing. But then there was a woman who has said she wants to make glasgow the feminist city. Shes sits as the feminist city. Shes sits as the chair of the partnership glasgow violence against women. Um, and violence against women. Um, and she was outside protesting when she was outside protesting when she could have been inside engaging and that was to me, that was the most awful thing. And i mentioned in my speech this morning the fact that these councillors have been there and a woman came up to me aftennards and she was really upset because shed been working with this council this councillor shed been working with this coursaid this councillor shed been working with this coursaid , this councillor shed been working with this coursaid , i this councillor shed been working with this coursaid , i careis councillor shed been working with this coursaid , i care about1cillor shed been working with this coursaid , i care about issues, had said, i care about issues, about violence against women. Yeah and she was, she was absolutely devastated to hear that she, she just had taken this knee jerk reaction. Shes you know, shes an elected representative. She should not have been doing that. This is an amazing event and she should have been there engaging. Absolutely. So i mean, there absolutely. So i mean, there needs to be more dialogue effectively is the message of this story. Susan smith, thanks so much forjoining me tonight. So much for joining me tonight. Really appreciate it. So thats really appreciate it. So thats the end of the first hour on free speech nation. But please dont go anywhere because theres to come theres a lot more to come between now and 9 00. Dont leave. Theres plenty more still to come on free speech nation this week, including more questions from our wonderful audience. But lets a news update first lets get a news update first from polly middlehurst. Andrew, thank you. Will the top story today is that the us secretary of state, antony blinken, has been underlining four key objectives. The us is sticking to as he continues his round of shuttle diplomacy in the middle east. He repeated the uss position that it stands by israel as well. Its expressed the hope that the conflict would not spill over into any other parts of the region. He also said the us is working to affect the release of israeli hostages taken by hamas , as well as taken by hamas, as well as ensuring that the humanitarian crisis in gaza does not worsen. Hes going to return to israel on monday as the country prepares for a ground assault on the gaza strip. Israeli troops massing now on the border and the Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu, vowing to demolish hamas. Well, today the European Union has backed israels right to defend itself as long as thats in line with humanitarian and international law. And as and international law. And as the news came through from the white house, that water had been turned back on in Southern Gaza , turned back on in Southern Gaza, Anthony Blinken stressed the us has continued support for israel. Actually doing including the deployment of these Aircraft Carrier battle groups is again not to provoke anyone but to send a very clear message of deterrence that no one should do anything that widens this conflict in any way or that furthers aggression against israel from any other direction. Israel from any other direction. Well , the Prime Minister and well, the Prime Minister and King Abdullah of jordan have spoken about the diplomatic efforts to prevent further escalation in the wider middle east. Rishi sunak welcoming King Abdullah to downing street today. The leaders also agreeing on the importance of taking measures to protect civilians in gaza in including british and jordanian citizens , caught up in jordanian citizens, caught up in the violence. This comes after a further round of crisis talks by World Leaders with others as they try to inject diplomacy into the conflict between israel and hamas. Now, for government and hamas. Now, for government flights carrying britains did leave israel today. Two more leave israel today. Two more expected to leave this evening. The Foreign Office is telling british nationals in gaza to be prepared. Get ready in case the rafah Border Crossing with egypt in the south is opened. Its currently the only route out of the territory the foreign secretary James Cleverly telling gb news the uk government is doing everything it to can get british people trapped in gaza safe passage out and hundreds of people gathered at a vigil in Central London to commemorate israeli victims of the hamas terror attack. Many were draped terror attack. Many were draped in israeli flags, holding posters saying bring them home and handing out flyers featuring names and faces of those taken hostage by hamas. Strong Police Presence patrolled the event, which took place in Parliament Square in london and away from the israeli hamas conflict. Sports england are through to the last four of the Rugby World Cup after a 3024 victory over fiji in their quarterfinal in marseilles. Steve borthwicks marseilles. Steve borthwicks men will now face france or south africa in the tournament semi finals. That means england are into the semis for the second world cup in a row. You second world cup in a row. You with news across the uk on tv, in your car, on Digital Radio and on your Smart Speaker by saying play gb news. This is britains news channel. Britains news channel. Welcome back to free speech nation. With me, andrew doyle. Lets get some more questions. Our first question is from our email account. This came in from sarah. And sarah has said, why has a man been named woman of the year . Okay this is attitude magazine. Attitude magazine is a gay magazine, very long standing. Theyve named Dylan Mulvaney as woman of the year. Now, Dylan Mulvaney, of course, is the tiktok star who now identifies as female. Attitude magazine has as female. Attitude magazine has never had a woman of the year award in its 30 year history. Suddenly, they decided to have one. The suddenly, they decided to have one. The first time they do it, they get it wrong. Well, patently wrong , havent they . Yeah, i would have thought the one a sort of qualifying makes you question why they did it. Yeah. And it makes you question why anyone involves yeah. And it makes you questi mulvaney yone involves yeah. And it makes you questi mulvaney yone iroflves yeah. And it makes you questi mulvaneyyone irof their Dylan Mulvaney in any of their campaigns or anything that theyre doing anymore. Because she absolutely destroy she seems to absolutely destroy anything she touches. And quite frankly, theres 51 of planet earth thats female born. Female. Yeah and we seem to have ignored them. Now for years. I dont understand. I dont dont understand. I dont understand whats so difficult about not choosing a biological man as woman of the year. But its interesting because you referred to Dylan Mulvaney as she and i wont do that because i think Dylan Mulvaney is quite clearly the out of womanhood. Its a whos pretending, its a man whos pretending, whos using all of the whos basically using all of the most regressive stereotypes of womanhood effectively mock womanhood to effectively mock women. I think thats what the joke is. Think hes a troll joke is. I think hes a troll and id and they just they it is incredible, isnt it . Its like when youre a kid, i was when i was a kid i was surrounded by girls. The whole of my family girls and of my family were girls and i got play mommy and daddys got to play mommy and daddys quite a and was often the quite a lot and i was often the daddy sometimes i had be daddy and sometimes i had to be pretend. Louis pretend. I sound like Louis Schaefer had schaefer now. Sometimes i had to pretend the mummy. And you pretend to be the mummy. And you know, when youre faking be know, when youre faking to be a woman child. Yeah, that is woman as a child. Yeah, that is what people do. Yeah. And what these people do. Yeah. And ive how going what these people do. Yeah. And ivspend how going what these people do. Yeah. And ivspend hnlives. Going what these people do. Yeah. And ivspend hnlives. Yeahjoing to spend their lives. Yeah i mean, kind of mean, that is kind of incredible, isnt it . Dylan mulvaney just like Dylan Mulvaney just embracing these. Ive like Dylan Mulvaney just embrsome these. Ive like Dylan Mulvaney just embrsome of these. Ive like Dylan Mulvaney just embrsome of ivideos ve like Dylan Mulvaney just embrsome of ivideos where like Dylan Mulvaney just emb like,e of ivideos where like Dylan Mulvaney just emb like, im ivideos where like Dylan Mulvaney just emb like, im a ivideos where like Dylan Mulvaney just emb like, im a womans where like Dylan Mulvaney just emb like, im a womans whnand hes like, im a woman now and hes like, im a woman now and hes of around and sort of hes sort of around and sort of falling ditzy way falling over in a ditzy way because thats what all women are yeah, well, a lot of are like. Yeah, well, a lot of them are. I youd say that. Them are. I knew youd say that. Of are. Some of a lot of them are. Some of them be. Some them them should be. Some of them shouldnt mean, women of shouldnt be. I mean, women of the year, though. Louis its much. Louis its a bit much. Louis its a bit much. Isnt a much. Its no, it isnt a bit much. Its a its gay magazine. And gay a its a gay magazine. And gay people want to people can do what they want to do and i wasnt do nowadays. And i wasnt suggesting they cant. I merely criticising the i was merely criticising the decision. Mean, first all, but i mean, first of all, its number one. Here is the problem. The problem is, is the similarity in the in the type. Theres a word for it. I dont know what the type is. Genotype phenotype, but the phenotype of the male female, theyre so similar that its for easy a man like me can get confused. And like me can get confused. And you i think would you see, i think you would be confused saw dylan confused if you saw Dylan Mulvaney. Fair shes mulvaney. Fair enough. Shes he has beautiful. And has become very beautiful. And in a way, hes more feminine. And maybe what hes doing is what they want this. What men want. They want this. This what a man wants. And if this is what a man wants. And if this is what a man wants , well, this is what a man wants, well, thats the point there, isnt it . Is the woman of the year, it . He is the woman of the year, but hes not the point that women are sort of a bit sick of men what they want. Women are sort of a bit sick of me like, what they want. Women are sort of a bit sick of me like, you what they want. Women are sort of a bit sick of me like, you know,. Hey want. Women are sort of a bit sick of me like, you know,. Hey wa the like, you know, this is the thing. Like, know, if youre thing. Like, you know, if youre going to have a woman of the year award. Yeah. At give year award. Yeah. At least give it woman. It to a woman. Got news you, ive got bad news for you, aiden are not getting what aiden men are not getting what they i know think they want. I know you think that men they want, men are getting what they want, but with women, were not getting. I dont think you can divide humanity men and women in humanity into men and women in these homogenous blocs. Then i get it. Get upset about it. Just doing that. Youre just doing that. Youre just doing that. Upset, criticised . No. But youre saying he should. Should be should. It should really be a woman. You going to woman. What are you going to check womans genitalia woman. What are you going to ch something . Womans genitalia woman. What are you going to ch something . Wom because italia or something . Just because we. No, im just saying like if someone you a award the someone gave you a award for the most woman, i most muscular black woman, i would probably say, yeah, i think wrong. Think thats probably wrong. Know what . But you know what . But you know what . Would let you the but i would let you get the award im not. Award right. Im not im not. Have to what each you have to decide what each of those terms what does of those terms mean. What does it be muscular . What it mean to be muscular . What does to be black . Does it mean to be to be black . What mean a woman . What does it mean to be a woman . I we need you know what it i think we need you know what it is. I agree with you the whole time is ridiculous. Time is totally ridiculous. Right . Its right . Of course its ridiculous. Ridiculous. Right . Of course its ridi itsnus. Ridiculous. Right . Of course its ridi its just ridiculous. Right . Of course its ridi its just daft. Diculous. Its just daft. Its just daft. Have a bit. Know but have a bit. You know what . Im going associate what . Im going to associate whatever i do next is going to be with mulvaney the title. Oh, you know what . If do oh, you know what . If you do it a huge i mean, im it will be a huge i mean, im going to change my name to Dylan Mulvaney. Schaefer, and ill more schaefer, and ill get more twitter followers. Schaefer, and ill get more twi oh, followers. Schaefer, and ill get more twi oh, iyllowers. Schaefer, and ill get more twi oh, i actually you will schaefer, and ill get more twithis. | actually you will schaefer, and ill get more twithis. | actuii ly you will schaefer, and ill get more twithis. | actuii mean, you will schaefer, and ill get more twithis. | actuii mean, you know, do this. Louis i mean, you know, it sounds flippant, but i believe through with believe you will go through with it. Question it. Right. Weve got a question now andy, hello. Now from andy. Andy, hello. Hi. Does let me ask following the recent vote in no vote in australia. Yes. Is it fair to say that the nation is still a long way away from any sense of reality , equality . Im sorry . Reality, equality . Im sorry . Well its interesting. So a lot of people might not know about this, andy. So the australians, they had a referendum and this was to do with what they call the voice referendum and what it would have done effectively. Yes, vote have done effectively. Yes, vote would created an advisory would have created an advisory sort of lobbying rep representation of Indigenous People in government. And the people in government. And the basically australia said no to that. Basically australia said no to that. But is basically australia said no to that. But is that about equality or is about democracy . Andy see, this is the question im interested in insofar as what you that case is having you risk in that case is having unelected people all having a say in governance. Yes. So say in governance. Yes. So thats actually a democratic issue, isnt it, paul it is. And australia do a lot of referendum and they do so in a way that enables the result to stand on its own two feet. There are six states, yeah. Provinces are six states, yeah. Provinces or whatever, other states out there, other states. And you have to, you have to achieve four yeses to get a yes or four nos to get nana or whatever it might be. And i knew straight away just the exit polling away just from the exit polling that they werent going that that they werent going to get it. But all of these sort of but but all of these sort of politicians the class its politicians the media class its a brexit they a bit like brexit in that they were yes. Yes. Were all saying vote yes. Yes. And they win. In other and they didnt win. In other words said, we dont words, the demos said, we dont want do this sort of racially want to do this sort of racially divided. No. And theyve made it. Theyve made it a question of race. Its not question of race. And its not a question of race. And its not a question of race. You can take race out of this. Course, the aboriginal this. Of course, the Aboriginal People different race people are of a different race to people have to to the people that have come to australia were australia since they were there. However you know why would it be right to separate a group of people and then for every single decision you had to make and you know how difficult it is to make decision by committee and then go and what do you think . Well, that was the concern. Louis a lot of people louis is that a lot of people were what does as were saying what this does as a society is it divides us even more into two classes of citizens based along racial lines. Though is lines. So even though it is ostensibly thing , ostensibly a progressive thing, it actually does the opposite. Do you thats right . It actually does the opposite. Do yes, thats right . It actually does the opposite. Do yes, thatshats right . It actually does the opposite. Do yes, thats true, right . It actually does the opposite. Do yes, thats true, because you yes, thats true, because you have to remember australian , the have to remember australian, the supposedly immigrant australians, people who moved to australia, white people, whatever country theyre from, are different than the are so different than the aboriginal australians in temperament, more different than any i think any two ethnic groups , more different than, groups, more different than, say, the english people when they moved to america versus the indians who were the native americans i know living. Yes, yes, yes. That theyre so different. And fact is, is different. And the fact is, is theres no such thing. The Aboriginal People have lived in australia as long as the quote unquote immigrant people have lived. Well, they they were there before. No, they werent there before the, the people who were living there who are who was an aborigines , they were living aborigines, they were living there for 20, 30, 50 years in there for 20, 30, 50 years in the day that they were born, which is the same length of time that i see what youre saying. I see what youre saying is suddenly some kind suddenly to give them some kind of rights for people suddenly to give them some kind of they rights for people suddenly to give them some kind of they dont|ts for people suddenly to give them some kind of they dont know people suddenly to give them some kind of they dont know and jle suddenly to give them some kind of they dont know and they who they dont know and they dont and happened in dont remember and happened in the think. I think. I think. Its interesting, isnt well, its interesting, isnt it . Actually some it . Because actually some aboriginal they Aboriginal People have said they didnt want this. No. And they were actually accused were they were actually accused of the of being effectively what the equivalent saying this, equivalent of for saying this, which a racist thing. Which to me is a racist thing. If saying dont if they were saying we dont want divided as a society, want to be divided as a society, we this kind of we dont want this kind of paternalistic thing saying that were forevermore. Were victims forevermore. But they sort of attacked they were sort of attacked by, well, white elites. Yes. Always the people who want integration then fight against it. Instance, you it. So, for instance, you imagine the situation. Now, if i said to you we should have a referendum says white, referendum that says all white, nafive referendum that says all white, native should native british people should have an additional vote on all policy that goes through government, wed all think that was nuts. Its the same thing whether or they like whether we like it or they like it they would say. It or not, they would say. Because aboriginal but because aboriginal aboriginal individuals are a minority, not the same. Well , have you seen london . Well, have you seen london . Well, have you seen london . I have seen london. I mean, right now. Yeah. And you know, and there is argument now that white is an argument now that white people are becoming a minority in over in london and they will do over the next couple decades. The next couple of decades. Say you can say can i say you can say whatever you want. Paul is totally right. If reverse totally right. If you reverse it, youre saying always it, youre saying hes always wrong. Always wrong. Except wrong. Hes always wrong. Except for now hes shocking me. Is its. Is it true . You just its true. Is it true . You just reverse it and say and say that engush reverse it and say and say that english people have greater english people have a greater vote who comes to vote than anybody who comes to the recently as a the country recently as a principle of democracy. Just be person, it should just be one person, one irrespective one vote. Yeah irrespective of who they are. Thats exactly it. Thats exactly it. So thats how thats the solution, isnt it . Would thought right. I would have thought so. Anyway next question. This has from twitter always has come in from twitter always makes nervous, but this makes me a bit nervous, but this is from june. June says makes me a bit nervous, but this is kevin from june. June says makes me a bit nervous, but this is kevin spacey ne. June says makes me a bit nervous, but this is kevin spacey been ne says makes me a bit nervous, but this is kevin spacey been cancelled has kevin spacey been cancelled again is interesting. Again . Now, this is interesting. So there was a World Premiere of Kevin Spaceys first film since his acquittal. And this is a his acquittal. And this is a its been scrapped by a west end cinema. The cinema actually put a statement saying it was a statement out saying it was horrified associated with horrified to be associated with the but spacey was the actor. But kevin spacey was found not guilty. Right does due process not count anymore . Is it just does the accusation stay with you forever more . Is that what were saying now . Yes, it does. But thats historically always been that way. Isnt it isnt a way. And it isnt it isnt a cancel question , is it . They cancel question, is it . They dont want associate with dont want to associate with kevin whether the kevin spacey whether he won the case them decide. Case or not. Let them decide. You know, theres libertarian ideas are part of the ideas which are part of the whole free speech thing. Yes. And you believe that . And you believe that . Its a private and i believe its a private business if they dont want to have there. Have kevin spacey there. I personally kevin spacey. Personally like kevin spacey. Everybody kevin everybody knew about kevin spacey. Been found spacey. Well, hes been found not thats the point, isnt it . Thats the point, isnt it . I mean, aukus of mean, shouldnt we aukus of guilty dont know if hes i think i dont know if hes guilty. Dont think hes guilty. I dont think hes guilty. Hes found not guilty. Guilty. Thats found not guilty. Guilty. Thats a found not guilty. Guilty. Thats a matteri not guilty. Guilty. Thats a matter 0th guilty. Guilty. Thats a matter of notjilty. Thats a matter of not guilty. A people have guilty. But a lot of people have been found innocent and then theyve then. Then theyve gotten away. Then. Then but but judge. But but still. But we can judge. But even your even if you take your libertarian say they libertarian views and say they have not to screen it have the right not to screen it in a free speech society, we have a right criticise have a right to criticise it. And thats right . Yeah and thats potentially what were doing now. You think . Now. Paul what do you think . Yeah. I actually agree yeah. Well i actually agree with largely, which is with louis largely, which is something that makes feel something that makes me feel a little however little bit unwell. Yes. However its, are, its, you know, they are, theyre there is this theyre is this there is this argument are an argument that they are an independent they independent business and they should to make their own should be able to make their own decisions. However their decisions. However their decisions have been on decisions have been made on something accused something that he was accused of, been acquitted of. Something that he was accused of, this been acquitted of. Something that he was accused of, this brings een acquitted of. Something that he was accused of, this brings usi acquitted of. Something that he was accused of, this brings us right|itted of. Something that he was accused of, this brings us right back of. Something that he was accused of, this brings us right back to so this brings us right back to the beginning of the the very beginning of the process where somebody can accuse anybody and say its them irrespective of proof. It can go all the way to court, still be found not guilty. And you are just tarnished with that brush for the rest of your career. Yeah. So that very nub of yeah. So that is the very nub of cancellation. Yeah. So i think i dont think that every theatre in the world should have kevin spacey, but they cant kick him out the basis that hes out on the basis that hes whatever theyre accused of. They have done that. But anyway. Okay, lets but anyway. Okay, well, lets move a question. This move on now to a question. This has emailed jason and has been emailed in by jason and jason says, will i take jobs away from teachers . As you might away from teachers . As you might have seen this, this week, there was a story about a prep school that appointed an ai robot as a principal head teacher. Im not joking. Its a School Called cottesmore school, which is a boarding school in west sussex. And it basically worked with this developer to create this this ai developer to create this robot has a name. The robot. The robot has a name. The robot. The robot has a name. The robot abigail bailey. Robot. The robot has a name. The robot abigailabigail bailey. Robot. The robot has a name. The robot abigail there. L bailey. Robot. The robot has a name. The robot abigail there. Ibailey. Robot. The robot has a name. The robot abigail there. I mean, theres abigail there. I mean, thats chilling because that looks like a real person to me. But robot, apparently. But thats a robot, apparently. And is to support the and the role is to support the schools headmaster to get advice and consultation. And i mean , i look, i know youre to mean, i look, i know youre to going accuse me of being a luddite, lewis, but i find that kind of thing a bit scary. I dont find it scary. No no, i dont find it scary. Its terrifying. Its terrifying. Yes. Because every i remember when i was in high school and there was the principal and the principal probably the principal was the probably the same school , like same in every school, like a robot no, wasnt. Robot anyway. No, he wasnt. Well, he was of like a well, he was kind of like a robot. Was super, super robot. He was super, super friendly and super nice. And then he the assistant then he hired the assistant principal, helm, he was principal, mr helm, and he was totally nasty. And the assistant principal was like a robot. He was like, his job was just to be nasty to people and to be the enforcer. While principal enforcer. While the principal everybody what this is. So Everybody Knows what this is. So in a way, is this is brilliant. These robots are to going i mean, i dont trust them, right . I dont trust robots. Of i dont trust robots. First of all, be my prejudice, all, this might be my prejudice, lewis, but ive too many lewis, but ive seen too many sci know. I know sci fi films. I know. I know what want. Yeah theyre not what they want. Yeah theyre not going to educate thats going to educate you. Thats like saying youre like saying, i puppet. Like saying youre like saying, i dont puppet. Like saying youre like saying, i dont trust puppet. Like saying youre like saying, i dont trust theypet. Like saying youre like saying, i dont trust the puppet. I dont trust the puppet. I dont trust the puppet. Dont trust puppets. I yes, i dont trust puppets. I dont that they freak me out. But yeah. But yeah. But yeah. Have you seen that film magic with Anthony Hopkins . Very well. Yes, very well. Yes, very well. There we have seen there we go. Have you seen the films . There we go. Have you seen the yes, films . There we go. Have you seen the yes, theyre is . There we go. Have you seen the yes, theyre very scary. Yes, theyre very scary. Yes, theyre very scary. Lets not talk about andrew is its real. Its not real. Its not real. Its not real. Say its not real. Say its not real. So hes. I erg is real. So hes. I erg is real. Ai is happening, paul. It is. And not mongering , but and im not fear mongering, but theyre going to all. Theyre going to kill us all. Are. Of course they are. Of course they are. By way, there are by the way, there are versions of and were at versions of ai and were at versions of ai and were at version chatgpt is at version four talking four and theyre talking about version which version 4. 5 coming out, which tells away that tells you straight away that two, three and four werent good enough. Therefore, got two, three and four werent good e|principal therefore, got two, three and four werent good e|principal theratnre, got two, three and four werent good e|principal therat a, got two, three and four werent good e|principal therat a boarding ot school. Yeah. Yeah yeah. Yeah who would normally get okay. Who would normally get paid the order of £100,000 a paid in the order of £100,000 a year chat gpt is about a five or a week. So there we go. Theres the other issue. Taking jobs other issue. Its taking jobs from beings, who from human beings, people who actually robots actually need the money. Robots dont need money. Dont money. That robots dont need money. That should thatll on should be on our thatll be on our l, our placards when you and i, because im you completely because im with you completely on this. Should be scared of on this. We should be scared of puppets should puppets and we definitely should be ai. Yeah, we should be scared of ai. Yeah, we should be. That is terrifying. Louis and can remember and the fact you can remember high is testament to your high school is testament to your memory, right . High school is testament to your me were right . High school is testament to your me were going to question were going to get a question now were going to get a question nothere is michael . Hi, where is michael . Hi, michael. Hi. Do you think Jeremy Corbyn should of london . Okay. Jeremy corbyn has suggested that he might run for london mayor he apparently he told party guests , youre told some party guests, youre going be me around. Going to be seeing me around. And that sounds like a threat to me. But he was me. Absolutely. But he was banned from standing a labour banned from standing as a labour mp. This birthday mp. He was. This was a birthday party. A Diane Abbotts party. It was a Diane Abbotts birthday this was the birthday party. So this was the statement he made. Do you think do you think hes referring to that . Because its an implication, isnt it . Its not. Might he might just be he might he mightjust be playing. But face it, playing. But lets face it, anybody anybody be anybody could anybody can be london point, london mayor at this point, couldnt Jeremy Corbyn couldnt they, if Jeremy Corbyn comes might well just comes in, we might as well just knock door of broadmoor knock on the door of broadmoor and anyone available. But. But. Well, a minute, michael, well, wait a minute, michael, do you want Jeremy Corbyn well, wait a minute, michael, do be you want Jeremy Corbyn well, wait a minute, michael, do be mayorju want Jeremy Corbyn well, wait a minute, michael, do be mayor not ant Jeremy Corbyn well, wait a minute, michael, do be mayor not really. My corbyn well, wait a minute, michael, do be mayor not really. Not corbyn to be mayor not really. Not really. I mean, but this is the thing. I think, like sadiq khan has criticism. You has had a lot of criticism. You know, looks like know, i mean, but it looks like you have to be you dont have to be particularly at the to particularly good at the job to stay the job. Stay in the job. No, its a popularity contest. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Contest. And, ly. Yeah, exactly. Contest. And, ly. Yknow, xactly. Contest. And, ly. Yknow, in tly. Contest. And, ly. Yknow, in all truth, and, you know, in all truth, i could quite easily see someone like mayor like corbyn being london mayor and labour party and sadiq and the labour party will be worried about that if thats the case, because he will garner lot, of votes. Garner a lot, a lot of votes. Running as an independent so running as an independent for sure, because you know , you for sure, because you know, you think could win . Think he could win . I do believe i do believe that the people of london would like to see him as mayor. That the people of london would likewhatle him as mayor. That the people of london would likewhat doiim as mayor. That the people of london would likewhat do youis mayor. That the people of london would likewhat do you think,or. That the people of london would likewhat do you think, louis . What do you think, louis . What do you think, louis . The mayor of london i think the mayor of london is its the most important developer position in the world, is this as a city about building and the powers that be will not allow someone like Jeremy Corbyn who is but they cant control it because ultimately its about the vote. Yes, they can. They can control it. Theyve got the evening and all the Evening Standard and all the newspapers up on Jeremy Corbyn. Who who are talking who who are you talking about . Controlling it . Thinking the. The im thinking the. The government. Do you mean the business of london . Business elite of london . They wont want corbyn. They wont want corbyn. But do they sidique but do they want sidique khan . Yes they do. Sadiq khan is the biggest developer in the past 100 know people hes failed on things people say hes failed on things like knife crime and those kind of yeah, but nobody but yeah, but nobody but rich people knife people dont care about knife crime. Rich person gets no, no rich person gets knifed. Rich people rich knifed. Rich people care. Rich people are they are we people care. Are they are we being allowed to build a 30 story in elephant . Story building in elephant . Thats thats thats what they castle. Thats what. Are they what they care about. Are they allowed to build more Council Houses they still doing houses or are they still doing that elephant and castle . That in elephant and castle . Yeah. That in elephant and castle . Theyre yeah. That in elephant and castle . Theyre totally. Theyre totally. What, louis . You you know what, louis . You should mayor. Think. Should run for mayor. I think. Same way. Im no, im the same way. Im totally development, but thats. Yeah, but you should run. I think itd be fantastic. You should it on this should launch it on this channel. Already channel. Yeah youve already got your your catchphrases. Your slogans, your catchphrases. Youve mostly of women. Following, mostly of women. Know do you want to know something . Know something . You want to know something . Yeah like to say im going to. Id like to say im going to. Im for corbyn. Im going to vote for corbyn. Would confusing me by would you stop confusing me by talking to anyway . Talking to me anyway . Weve a question look, weve got a question now from andy. Andy this now from andy. Is andy oh, this is an email question. So andy said, are white male actors going out of fashion in the theatre . Yeah. So this was theatre . Yeah. So this was a gregory doran, who was the former artistic director of the rsc, the Royal Shakespeare company. He says white male actors are struggling to find work. Isnt really work. Uh, this isnt really surprising, it . Surprising, though, is it . Because all productions now have to be colour blind that is now sort an edict from on high. Sort of an edict from on high. I actually Graham Linehans actually read Graham Linehans book his biography, book recently. His biography, and about tom and he was talking about tom stoppard, whod written a play specifically jewish specifically about a jewish community, and the producer of the , n0, community, and the producer of the , no, hes the show had said, no, hes going to have black actors in it, likes it or not. It, whether he likes it or not. So even though it was completely ahistorical and kind of ahistorical to do so and kind of detracted point the detracted from the point of the play, is happening now, play, this is now happening now, of course, i dont if of course, i dont care if a production wants to do a colour blind it colour blind thing, but when it kind and takes you kind of detracts and takes you out moment the out of the moment of what the piece is about, i think that is an issue. It is. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. You imagine as you imagine this as a pendulum. Its swung far. Pendulum. Its swung very far. One it whenever one way now. It always whenever i see stories like this that always animal farm always invokes animal farm and communism in my head, because what happens is once they get a sense and that taste of power, they take it way beyond equality and they keep going until it benefits them, whoever them might be, whatever cultural background or whatever, whatever there might be inevitable because it is a pendulum. Its going have to come back at going to have to come back at some point. Mean , what i my problem i mean, what i my problem with it is its boring. Effectively every i mean, effectively every theatre to now theatre production you go to now is a sermon dressed up as a play. Its basically pushing is a sermon dressed up as a plajequalityiically pushing is a sermon dressed up as a plajequality equity. |ushing is a sermon dressed up as a plajequality equity. Sorryg edi equality equity. Sorry Diversity Inclusion mantra , and Diversity Inclusion mantra, and its just hectoring you, lecturing you. Its boring. Yeah. So dont go to the theatre. Dont go to the theatre and then do do our own private little mean, what are little plays. I mean, what are you suggesting here, lewis . We got audience here. You got got an audience here. You got me. You. Youre. Well read. Me. And you. Youre. Well read. You probably. Me. And you. Youre. Well read. Youokay,|bly. Me. And you. Youre. Well read. You okay, well, write me. And you. Youre. Well read. Youokay, well, write a okay, well, ill write a script for next week, and we can. And we can do our own play. And will fight get and people will fight to get into it. I mean, you might be overestimate our skills. Youre no thespian, you know , youre no thespian, you know, im a very good actor. I was in indiana jones. I was in indiana jones. You were . Now, i havent watched it yet. I was superman. I was i was in superman. I was leaning against a wall when the train coming the station. You did it very well. You did it very well. Yes, i was unnoticeable. Youre method youre a method actor. Lot of you leant against a lot of walls prepare for the tories. Walls to prepare for the tories. Theyre all the same. White people are doomed. Were doomed. People are doomed. Were doomed. We. We do. I wouldnt go that far. I wouldnt go that far. You dont think. See, thats the thing. Youve got hope. I have no hope. Okay, well, on that bleak note, were going to take a break. But look, next on free speech nation, im to going be interviewing a former tavistock trust doctor. Hes very concerned about the advice being given by the nhs to teenagers who are confused about their genden who are confused about their gender. See you shortly listening to gb news radio. Welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle, a doctor who worked at the tavistock and Portman Foundation for years, has raised for 12 years, has raised concerns that the nhs is steering vulnerable young people towards organisations, which he describes as transient factories. Dr. As hakim, who now works on harley street , says teenagers on harley street, says teenagers aged 17 and over are being guided towards the trans charity gendered intelligence, which he believes propagate contentious affirmation techniques that encourage the youngsters to think they are in the wrong body. Dr. Hakim has written a book about this subject called trans when transition is not the solution, and he joins me now. Welcome to the show and thank you for bringing your dog buster, who is lying on the floor splayed at my feet. Floor splayed at my feet. Hes an avid gb news, is he . Hes an avid gb news, is he . Indeed . Indeed . Hed be terribly upset if he didnt come. Well, thank you for coming. And this is new book, and this is your new book, d trans. I think a lot of people wont know what is meant by transition d transition and what is a d transition. D transitions are the people that not to know that youre not supposed to know about. The people who so theyre the people who at one believed they one point believed that they should they should be another gender. They may have through social, may have gone through social, hormonal, physical, surgical changes to their body and at some point realised actually this wasnt the right thing to do. And so they revert back to their original gender. They transition. Yes. Now ive spoken to some people who fall into that category on this very show and the same story keeps coming out is that they feel like they were misinformed, were even misinformed, that they were even pressurised make these pressurised to make these irreversible changes their irreversible changes to their bodies and they regret it. I mean, its a really kind of shocking situation, isnt it . Terrible. And the for 12 its terrible. And the for 12 years, i set up a specialist adult gender dysphoria psychotherapy service. The only one in the country, and that was at clinic. And at the portman clinic. And 26 of i saw were of the patients i saw were regrets. And they talked about this stage of gender dysphoria and then transgender euphoria and then transgender euphoria and then transgender euphoria and then a bit later, transgender dysphoria. Yeah. And transgender dysphoria. Yeah. And there was a sense of inauthentic about themselves, which then lingered and what people dont talk about is actually trans isnt a thing. Its lots of things which are now unhealthy labelled as trans. In the book i talk about what on earth is this thing called trans . Because nobody talks transvestites nobody talks about transvestites anymore. Always been anymore. But theres always been far transvestites and but far more transvestites and but theyre all trans now, so theyre all trans now, so theyre all trans now, so theyre all the same. Youre talking about the but youre talking about the gender affirmative model care gender affirmative model of care where comes along and where someone comes along and says and they can a child and says and they can be a child and say, you know, i that im say, you know, i feel that im in body or something in the wrong body or Something Like specialist like this. And the specialist that paediatrician is that the paediatrician is expected that expected to merely affirm that belief that they have about themselves. Now activists say that you dont affirm that that if you dont affirm that belief, theres a high risk of suicide. So in the book i debunk loads of myths. So the myths are people are born in the wrong body, people are trans from birth. If you dont give a trans identifying person affirming affirmatively interventions, theyll kill themselves. This is theyll kill themselves. This is all nonsense. Theres no data suggest any of that. Theres also this myth that only 1 of people who transition regret it. There are no follow up studies. You know, if you have an operation on your little finger, therell evidence therell be tonnes of evidence based but in based follow up studies. But in gender sex gender dysphoria, sex reassignment, there so reassignment, there isnt so theres hope if you give theres a hope that if you give someone they want, theyll someone what they want, theyll be with and my be happy with it. And my patients who are regretted and detransition owners, they all said the thing. They all said the same thing. They all said, well, when i decided that i be opposite sex, i should be the opposite sex, that everyone just affirmed me. And when they regretted it and they to their they went back to their families, employers , their families, their employers, their friends, were saying, friends, they were saying, why didnt ask why i was didnt you just ask me why i was thinking all thinking this . And they all said, being said, because we were being supportive. Thats what we thought meant do. Thought were meant to do. Well, that raises another issue that labour issue is that the Labour Government that they government are saying that they want to ban what they call trans conversion by that want to ban what they call trans convetheyi by that want to ban what they call trans convetheyi is by that want to ban what they call trans convetheyi is they by that want to ban what they call trans convetheyi is they wantit want to ban what they call trans convetheyi is they want to what they mean is they want to ban this kind of therapeutic explorative. So, so the therapy i did was merely be a thoughtful thinking with someone and a bit like with, you know, with my maths a level, which i was terrible at, you know, you think in a series of, you terrible at, you know, you think in a series of , you know, in a series of, you know, sequential process and if you get a bit wrong, you might end up over here rather than over here. So what i do with my patients is they come with the solution of i should be the other sex. And all you try and do is say, okay, fine, how did you get there and where did you start with how did to that with how did you get to that conclusion . And what youd hope with how did you get to that cothatsion . And what youd hope with how did you get to that cothat ifwn . And what youd hope with how did you get to that cothat if youind what youd hope with how did you get to that cothat if you had vhat youd hope with how did you get to that cothat if you had vh child,d hope is that if you had a child, lets say five year old or an lets say a five year old or an eight year says, oh, eight year old who says, oh, i think i should be a girl or a boy, youd hope is someone boy, what youd hope is someone clinical say, really . How clinical would say, really . How did how did come to like the did how did you come to like the maths . Did you come to that maths . How did you come to that conclusion . Youre not. Conclusion . Not no, youre not. But how get there . Help but how did you get there . Help me understand how you got there and affirmation therapy doesnt do that. Affirmation says to the young child, yes , you are born young child, yes, you are born the wrong body. And myself and a number of clinicians are a part of a group of canister Clinical Advisory Network for and Advisory Network for sex and genden Advisory Network for sex and gender. Were really concerned about this proactive nation model because affirmation sounds good, doesnt it . But but actually , its grooming, its actually, its grooming, its colluding with a false notion. And grooming a child into thinking that theres something were not theyre not. Whereas were not theyre not. Whereas we would say no body is wrong. You know, if you feel you dont fit in, help the child, fit in and understand that they can be whatever they want to be, dont convince them that their body is wrong and they need to mechanically, surgically, hormonally change body. Hormonally change that body. Have always been, but there have always been, havent there, individuals who, for do in order for whatever reason, do in order to feel happy in society , do to feel happy in society, do need to either present as the opposite sex or to undertake surgery to reach that point . And there are many people who fall into that category who who say that are dont regret that they are they dont regret that. It was it actually that. And it was it was actually life saving do you life saving for them. Do you accept that . Know whether well, we dont know whether its they might its life saving. They might they regret it, but they might not regret it, but they might not regret it, but they was they dont know whether it was life saving. Its life saving. Its a its a symptom thinking, believing that youre another sex symptom. Youre another sex is a symptom. Its its a bit its not a condition. Its a bit like a cough. If have like a cough. If you have a cough, you might have something stuck throat. You might cough, you might have something stucklung throat. You might cough, you might have something stucklung cancer, it. You might cough, you might have something stucklung cancer, it. Ynmight ht have lung cancer, you might have a infection. The a chest infection. But the presenting a cough. Presenting symptom is a cough. So patient has a presenting so if a patient has a presenting symptom of thinking theyre the wrong sex, thats thats not necessarily condition. Necessarily a condition. Its a symptom. Want to symptom. And what you want to find out is how they got there, what we do know that theres what we do know is that theres massive conditions massive coexisting conditions like trauma , internalised like autism trauma, internalised homophobia. If i look at the sample of patients that i had, 100 of my males were on the spectrum and they had a sense of on the autistic spectrum or on the autistic spectrum. Sorry. Yeah. And they had a sense of something not being quite right with them, probably because they were and were a bit different and not fitting in in. And then they came the idea that maybe they came to the idea that maybe they were wrong sex. And ones were the wrong sex. And the ones who seemed to be happy with the outcome were the more autistic ones. Right because they believed that i look like a believed that if i look like a woman and people call me, she and they must think and her, then they must think im a woman. So in that case, if we do, if we go along this line of what they call social transitioning. So the idea that when a child says theyre in the wrong body, the teachers and the peers all refer to as the other sex colluding. Yes. Yes. That can actually have an effect in terms of its terrible because youre colluding with this notion. This false notion. So rather than saying to the child, theres nothing wrong so rather than saying to the child, the letsiothing wrong so rather than saying to the child, the lets trying wrong so rather than saying to the child, the lets try and wrong so rather than saying to the child, the lets try and work with you, lets try and work with you, lets try and work with and help happier with you and help you be happier and why youre and find out why youre so unhappy. Because their unhappiness is lodged. They believe their body and their believe in their body and their sex. But actually, lets try and work out why theyre so unhappy. Its symptom underlying its a symptom of an underlying problem needs to looked its a symptom of an underlying pn rather needs to looked its a symptom of an underlying pn rather than 1eeds to looked its a symptom of an underlying pn rather than presuming looked its a symptom of an underlying pn rather than presuming that ed at rather than presuming that the child knows everything about what is male or female. What it is to be male or female. Children dont children are learning time. Children dont children are lea why time. Children dont children are lea why is time. Children dont children are lea why is it time. Children dont children are lea why is it you ime. Children dont children are lea why is it you think so many why is it you think so many of these ideas of what it means to male or are to be male or female are connected to Old Fashioned gendered why gendered stereotypes . What . Why is thought we is that . Because i thought we left all that behind. Going back to autistic so. So going back to autistic thinking and autistic minds, theyre and theyre very rule based and i talk about people being gender confident and gender underconfident so the gender confident person can be subversive, can can say, well, if i dont fit in with whatever framework youve got, then you know your framework is rubbish. Whereas the gender under confident person says if i dont finish your framework, then i must be wrong and need to must be wrong and i need to change myself fit the change myself to fit in the framework and all these children who are suddenly saying that theyre non binary trans. Theyre non binary and trans. In theyre non binary and trans. In the i talk about how the book i talk about how actually this is just a youth subculture. Well, to what extent is it a social contagion . Because used social contagion . Because i used to and saw this to be a teacher and i saw this sudden explosion anorexia, sudden explosion of anorexia, that kind of thing, which appears to have subsided the appears to have subsided in the book, about how how rapid book, i talk about how how rapid onset gender is for draghi is a subculture here. And i liken it to goth mark five, which im well known for saying because when we were a teenager, you know, my friend jenny turned up with backcombed hair and purple lipstick, and she was the coolest thing ever. We said, are goth . And we said, what are you, goth . And there epidemic of goth in there was an epidemic of goth in this north wales private school. Now, just the now, someone looking just the same to school. Theyll same will go to school. Theyll say, you . Im say, what are you . Im non binary trans. Whole non binary trans. The whole school. Like covid they school. Its not like covid they havent caught it. Its just a cool subcultural thing to do, which then mistake as having which we then mistake as having a medical condition. There also a darker and there is also a darker side know, at the side to this. You know, at the tavistock was a joke among tavistock there was a joke among staff that there would be staff that soon there would be no left Hannah Barnes no gay people left Hannah Barnes in has in her book on the tavistock has pointed out that between 80 and 90 adolescents sex 90 of adolescents were same sex attracted activists attracted a lot of gay activists are concerned that whats happening young gay happening here is that young gay people being effectively people are being effectively heterosexual ized by this. Absolutely. Because gay people , when theyre growing up, people, when theyre growing up, are more likely to be gender non conforming. When was non conforming. And when i was at tavistock, i said to one of the people working there in the kids department, i said, isnt what doing mad . And what were doing a bit mad . And the said to me , is it any the person said to me, is it any more mad than if they were to grow be gay . Really grow up to be gay . Really yeah. I mean, thats an openly homophobic comment. Well yeah, they thought it was a bit psychotic to gay. Psychotic to be gay. So. So. So. So. I mean , ive that so i mean, ive heard that there kind endemic there was a kind of endemic homophobia there. Absolutely. And sometimes who and sometimes from parents who just happy the idea and sometimes from parents who jusa happy the idea and sometimes from parents who jusa gay happy the idea and sometimes from parents who jusa gay childippy the idea and sometimes from parents who jusa gay child and the idea and sometimes from parents who jusa gay child and the the idea and sometimes from parents who jusa gay child and the thing dea of a gay child and the thing that i refer to is the trans housing by proxy or the or the trans sex eugenic parent. The parents who are bringing in five year olds and convinced the child should have been the other gender because theyre gender rather gender non conforming rather than well, its than just saying, well, its gender non conforming. Gender non conforming. Because we i mean, finally, because we dont have much time. But but im fascinated because im fascinated by this because ive always taken the liberal view that adult should be view that any adult should be able whatever want able to do whatever they want with whatever with their bodies, make whatever choices even if choices that they want, even if that ill informed. That choice is ill informed. Right. Stick that. Right. I just stick by that. I think live like that think we have to live like that in a society. But it comes in a society. But when it comes to children, have reached to children, why have we reached this where sudden this point where all of a sudden weve decided children can weve decided that children can consent to puberty blockers to medication lead to medication that can lead to sterilisation cant medication that can lead to stera sation cant medication that can lead to stera tattoo, cant medication that can lead to stera tattoo, chemical cant get a tattoo, chemical castrations, you we and castrations, you we go and watch films alan turing and films about alan turing and saying how awful it is that we can castrated gay men in the war we exactly the same chemical we use exactly the same chemical castrations children, how we use exactly the same chemical casttheyis children, how we use exactly the same chemical castthey consent ldren, how we use exactly the same chemical castthey consent to en, how we use exactly the same chemical castthey consent to that how we use exactly the same chemical castthey consent to that . How we use exactly the same chemical castthey consent to that . Howv can they consent to that . How have we that thats also have we decided that thats also a child . A child doesnt know that if they have puberty blockers, theres a very high chance theyre never going to have a sexual. Um, hopefully children havent hadnt had sexual. They dont know it means. How can they give informed consent to having that . How can they give informed conwellto having that . How can they give informed conwell , having that . How can they give informed conwell , dr. Having that . How can they give informed conwell , dr. Hakim,ing that . How can they give informed conwell , dr. Hakim, thankit . How can they give informed conwell , dr. Hakim, thank you so well, dr. Hakim, thank you so much joining me. Book is much forjoining me. The book is called trans. Thats out now, i believe, this thanks for believe, this week. Thanks for coming the show and thank coming on to the show and thank you bringing buster you to bring for bringing buster as it. Oh, he loved it. Oh, he loved it. You tell absolutely can you tell i absolutely can tell. Dr. Hakim, thank you very much. Thank you. We did reach much. Thank you. We did reach out to gendered intelligence. We out to gendered intelligence. We havent heard back, but we have got a statement from them. Theyve said were not a Health Care Provider and dont treat any way we anyone. We provide any way we anyone. We provide youth groups, education and outreach and support of the Trans Community in the uk, the nhs does not refer anyone to us for assessment of any kind, any other kind of treatment. Other kind of treatment. Families support their families want to support their young and young young people and young people deserve supported. Well deserve to be supported. Well keep for our young keep standing up for our young people, carers people, parents and carers and families everyone families so that everyone can have they have the safety and care they deserve. And next up on free deserve. And next up on free speech nation authors Greg Lukianoff and Ricky Schlott will be here to tell us about their important new book. The council ling of the American Mind. Dont go anywhere. Radio. Welcome back to free speech nation. As the spectre of cancel culture looms large over politics, the arts, learning institutions and virtually every other aspect of our lives, finding a way to protect freedom of expression becomes ever more important. A of expression becomes ever more important. A book out this month entitled the cancelling of the American Mind how Cancel Culture Undermines trust destroys institute actions and threatens us all out lines, the scale of the problem. But it also lays clear steps that we can take to try and eradicate the issue. The authors are greg luciano , a authors are greg luciano, a lawyer and president of the foundation for individual rights and expression and Ricky Schlott, a journalist, political commentator and co host the commentator and co host of the lost debate podcast. Thank you both for joining tonight. Both for joining me tonight. And, greg, to come to and, greg, im going to come to you cancel culture. A lot you first. Cancel culture. A lot of people say it doesnt exist. What do you say to those people . Id say im not even sure they believe themselves when they believe themselves when they say that. I mean , ive been they say that. I mean, ive been working on campuses for 22 years and cancel culture. Our definition of cancel culture is the uptick in campaigns to get people fired. De platformed people fired. De platformed expelled a two to lose their jobs since 2014 due to their opinion and due to their political opinion. Do jokes due to their expression and the climate of fear that resulted from that. And what . And it was from that. And what . And it was really obvious even in 2015. But by 2017, 2020, the numbers we started seeing of professors getting targeted and losing their jobs is on getting targeted and losing theirjobs is on an unprecedented scale. I always give the example of during the red scare in the United States dunng red scare in the United States during mccarthyism. At the time during mccarthyism. At the time they were aware of about 63 professors losing their jobs for being communists , about 90 for being communists, about 90 for losing their opinion. Overall thats generally rounded up to about 100. Its probably a little more than that, as the decades will reveal. But now were talking about 200 professors fired. Were talking professors fired. Were talking about and back then, by the way, the law wasnt even clear that you couldnt fire professors for being communist. Now, it really, really were dealing really is. And were dealing with something a historic with something on a historic scale. So people who say that cancel culture isnt even real, you just shouldnt take them seriously you just shouldnt take them seriricky, ask you about ricky, can i ask you about that specifically in Higher Education . Why is the education . Why why is it the case it has particularly case that it has particularly impacted universities , cities . Impacted universities, cities . I mean, one thing that i can say is someone who was just on a campus two years ago at nyu is that the culture of conformity is really just spiralling and self perpetuate waiting in a way that i think is really concerning, particularly with young who are just young people who i find are just they want to fit in. I mean, frankly, when i went to nyu as a freshman, i was hiding Jordan Peterson and Thomas Peterson books and thomas notebooks because notebooks under my bed because god knew my god forbid, somebody knew my politics. And i think in a world like that, its really easy to just bite your tongue and assume that everyone else disagrees with but its really with you. But its really a tyranny minority. And tyranny of the minority. And thats saw thats something that i saw firsthand. And thats part of firsthand. And so thats part of my motivation in co authoring this with greg is think this book with greg is i think that its to fight and that its time to fight back and actually up and be actually speak up and be authentic with our values, because soon as i spoke up at because as soon as i spoke up at nyu, then everyone around me, i found actually quietly found out actually quietly thought but thought the same thing, but would to say, hey, would come to me and say, hey, i agree with you entirely, but just anyone that we just dont tell anyone that we had conversation. Had this conversation. Is a fantastic it really is a fantastic book. More than that, book. But more than that, i think very, very important think its very, very important that. You think, though that. Greg, do you think, though , you can solve this , that you can solve this problem when so many people are frankly a little terrified of uttering what they believe is going to be the unfashionable view . Well we spend about a third of the book talking about solutions. But one thing i want to be really clear on this is not easily solved like weve seen on campus, particularly with students coming out and saying that, you know, israel had it coming and hamas was right. And by the way, you know, if you fire those thats cancel fire those people, thats cancel culture, very clear culture, too. Were very clear about take on both the about that. We take on both the right, left, right, the right and the left, but also revealed a single but it also revealed a single mindedness , a lack of viewpoint, mindedness, a lack of viewpoint, diversity on campus that is very true. And its made all the worse by the fact that people think that theyre to going lose their careers they if they their careers if they if they mildly disavow every mean, mild disagreement these days is, you know full well, andrew, like on particularly on elite campuses, is treated more like blasphemy or. So we spend about a or heresy. So we spend about a third of the book and we go all the way from parenting to corporations k through 12 corporations to k through 12 reform ed reform. And reform to higher ed reform. And we that some these we think that some of these changes have to be big and sustained. And unfortunately, we sustained. And unfortunately, we think its probably going to get worse in 2024 before it gets better. Better. Well, that is bleak. Well, that is bleak. Ricky , can i ask you, theres ricky, can i ask you, theres one part of the book where you touch on the idea of comedy, of course. Arts more course. And the arts more generally. Course, course. And the arts more gesomething course, course. And the arts more gesomething that course, course. And the arts more gesomething that feel ourse, is something that i feel particularly sensitive about because shocked , because im im shocked, frankly, that some of the people in who are meant to be in society who are meant to be the thinking of the most free thinking of individuals, artists, the individuals, the artists, the creatives , jesters, creatives, the jesters, that those are the ones that are falling into line with cancel culture. Can tell us a culture. Can you tell us a little about that . Little bit about that . Absolutely. Throughout the book, we have different key case studies of Different Industries , studies of Different Industries, and most of them are knowledge producing institutions. But we did include comedy for a did also include comedy for a very important reason. And we believe provides believe that comedy provides a space where we can actually acknowledge some of the more touchy and sensitive topics in our culture and laugh about them and confront them in a non threatening way. And unfortunately, weve seen that complete degrade, particularly on campuses as well. But also just out and about. I mean, i think the Dave Chappelle controversy at netflix is a perfect example of how campus sensitivity is really launched out into the real world, into Corporate Culture as well. But i would say that the comedy chapter was one where i had a unique amount of hope at the end after writing it. I think seeing after writing it. I think seeing Andrew Schulz land on his feet recently was pretty heartening and seeing netflix actually stands behind Dave Chappelle and change their entire corporate policy to basically say, we are to going Say Something that you dont agree with as a company, and if thats a problem for you, this isnt the right company for you. It makes me think you. Actually, it makes me think that comedy one the first that comedy is one of the first industry there there industry ways that there there is at least a little bit of a light at the end tunnel, light at the end of the tunnel, in opinion. Light at the end of the tunnel, in well,inion. Light at the end of the tunnel, in well, i ion. Light at the end of the tunnel, in well, i certainly hope youre well, i certainly hope youre right. Afraid all right. Im afraid thats all weve for. But the book weve got time for. But the book is of the is called the cancelling of the american is absolutely American Mind. It is absolutely fantastic, greg and ricky, thank you forjoining you so much forjoining me. Thank on free thank you. And next up on free speech nation , sir keir starmer thank you. And next up on free speeciunexpected r keir starmer thank you. And next up on free speeciunexpected poise starmer thank you. And next up on free speeciunexpected poise underzr shows unexpected poise under pressure in social sensations. And paul cox and Lewis Schaffer will answer some of your unfiltered dilemmas. Join us in a moment. On mark dolan tonight. Thousands of woke lefties cheering on the murder and mutilation of jewish people. So mutilation of jewish people. So much for be kind in my take at ten with the ukraine war and the middle east conflict spiking oil and gas prices, net zero is now never zero. Also has the bbc embarrassed britain with its israel stance. Plus the papers and my top pundits. Were live and my top pundits. Were live from. Nine from. Nine welcome back to free speech nafion. Welcome back to free speech nation. Its time for social nation. Its time for social sensations. Thats the part of the show where we look at what has been going viral this week on social media. So first up, this video from the labour Party Conference week. Conference earlier this week. Leader starmer leader sir keir starmer was probably all be probably hoping wed all be talking about his speech, but this protester had other ideas true democracy is citizen led politics needs an update. We demand a peoples. House we demand a peoples. House we demand a peoples. House any thoughts, paul . Any thoughts, paul . Any thoughts, paul . Mental. I mean, any thoughts, paul . Mental. I mean, ill just take a very, very, very quick serious angle on this. How on earth did he get to the stage and still have 3 or 4 seconds with keir starmer . With keir starmer . Incredible. Incredible. Incredible. Incredible. Because, know, all because, you know, in all seriousness, extremely seriousness, thats extremely dangerous. So even knew he dangerous. So they even knew he was or very was coming. Yes. Or theyre very bad security. Was coming. Yes. Or theyre very bacyeah. Curity. Was coming. Yes. Or theyre very bacyeah. Ijrity. Was coming. Yes. Or theyre very bacyeah. I mean, im im yeah. I mean, im im suspecting the latter. Theres suspecting the latter. Theres no way should have got that no way he should have got that close. Should they . Looks that well, he looks like that malek. Guy, malek. Malek. Whats that guy, malek. It singer whos the smger . Singer . I have no idea who youre talking about. Guy. The brother . No, no. Guy. The brother . No, no. Guy. The brother . No, no. We could be doing this all night. A point about night. Just make a point about the and point about the glitter. That british people, our is that british people, our people, weve lost all fear for we dont have a fear. We dont have a fear of anything that the other is doing. Dont other side is doing. We dont have anything. So you have a fear of anything. So you think we should be tougher on protesters . We should we should be we should be we should be saying, god, were saying, oh my god, were under threat. Country is going. And this country is going. And if we thinking this, we were thinking this, we wouldnt think, were going wouldnt think, oh, were going to and to have a meeting and everythings going be okay. To have a meeting and eveall|ings going be okay. To have a meeting and eveall right,going be okay. To have a meeting and eveall right, lets be okay. To have a meeting and eveall right, lets do be okay. To have a meeting and eveall right, lets do yourkay. All right, lets do your doom. It is. There it is. Doom. There it is. There it is. Thats what i was for. Thats what i was waiting for. And of him and we got it out of him eventually. Now look, were going have a look at your going to have a look at your unfiltered dilemmas. Thank you so in so much for emailing in your problems one problems every week. This one comes from tammy , and tammy comes in from tammy, and tammy says, i have a friend who has a child identifies as a cat. Child who identifies as a cat. Shes not feeling very well and cant get a doctors appointment. Should i tell her cant get a doctors aptake. Ment. Should i tell her cant get a doctors aptake thelt. Should i tell her cant get a doctors aptake the child juld i tell her cant get a doctors aptake the child julthetell her cant get a doctors aptake the child julthe vet her cant get a doctors aptake the child julthe vet . R to take the child to the vet . Well, i mean, thats one way of solving it. Well, i mean, thats one way of solving it. This is the thing is that obviously when kids are saying this sort of thing, they are of seeking attention are sort of seeking attention or i think paul, theyre taking the mick, arent they . Because they i think paul, theyre taking the mick, that t they . Because they i think paul, theyre taking the mick, that adults . Because they i think paul, theyre taking the mick, that adults . Because along know that adults are going along with this kind. Course, they are of course, what they need are parents werent when parents that werent born when we because we were born. Andrew because parents born when we parents that were born when we were born, well, actually millennials, after millennials, which are after us, but seriously. But theyre taking it seriously. Yeah, way. Hillary yeah, they are. No way. Hillary and my mum and dad would and steve, my mum and dad would have taken any of that from me if was going to be if i said i was going to be a cat. They would have put me down. Well, quite. Well, quite. About louis . Would well, quite. Parentsyut louis . Would well, quite. Parents have louis . Would well, quite. Parents have takenis . Would well, quite. Parents have taken you . Ould well, quite. Parents have taken you . Didi your parents have taken you . Did they seriously . They take you seriously . I dont think that they did, which why turned the which is why i turned out the way they didnt pay any way i did. They didnt pay any attention to me, basically. I mean, put kid in a mean, yeah, put the kid in a cage take him to take. Cage and take him to take. Yeah, if he wants it. Yeah, if he wants it. Know what this is you know what this is sometimes you have to sometimes what you have to do, which i have three which i have. I have three children and you children and. And, and what you have do is you have to have to do is you have to actually go through with it. Youve to say, well, youve got to say, oh, well, were going it to the vet. Are you the sort parent are you the sort of parent that caught a child that when you caught a child smoking, would force them to smoking, you would force them to eat of cigarettes . Eat the packet of cigarettes . No. Im even before oh, no, no. Im even before that, hit yeah well, that, id hit them. Yeah well, i would to say that i not would like to say that i do not i do not endorse that whatsoever. I dont think should hit i dont think you should hit children. Dont think you children. I also dont think you should them eat packets should force them to eat packets of cigarettes, you know. Dont either. No, i dont either. No, i dont either. And youre parent, so, you and youre a parent, so, you know, wouldnt either. Know, i wouldnt do either. I mean, you know, i talk about tough kids. Am about being tough on kids. I am not daughter. She is not tough on my daughter. She is im around im completely wrapped around her do whatever her little finger. I do whatever she so shes she says. Really . Yeah. So shes not pretending to be a cat, though, i hasten to add. Well, look, afraid okay, well, look, im afraid on note, is all weve on that note, that is all weve got time for. Id love to talk about to louis about this more and but we dont have and more, but we dont have time. But do. Thanks for time. But do. But thanks for joining for free. Speech joining us for free. Speech nation. Was the when nation. This was the week when another another of another man won another woman of the award. Kevin was the year award. Kevin spacey was cancelled and a robot was cancelled again and a robot was appointed to be a part of the schools Senior Management team. Thank you so much to my panel, paul cox and Dylan Mulvaney, schaefer and to my guests this evening. And if you want to join evening. And if you want to join us live in the studio, be part of wonderful audience. Just of our wonderful audience. Just go audiences. Com. Stay go to w sro audiences. Com. Stay tuned for mark dolan tonight but dont forget headliners is on at 11 00 featuring Lewis Schaefer and paul cox thats your paper preview show thanks for joining us. See preview show thanks for joining us. See you next week. Us. See you next week. Hello there. Good evening. Hello there. Good evening. Hello there. Good evening. Im Jonathan Vautrey here with your gb news Weather Forecast provided by the met office. If you enjoyed the fine conditions weve had around this weekend holding on weekend, we will be holding on to the start of the weekend, we will be holding on to week the start of the weekend, we will be holding on to week ashe start of the weekend, we will be holding on to week as well. Ill. Of the weekend, we will be holding on to week as well. A of the weekend, we will be holding on to week as well. A lotthe weekend, we will be holding on to week as well. A lot of nice new week as well. A lot of nice conditions end evening conditions to end this evening with few scattered with as well. A few scattered showers for some coastal districts but most districts in the north, but most of us will be staying dry. Some isolated and patches isolated mist and fog patches are possible overnight and temperatures be tumbling temperatures will be tumbling down a to low. Single down a bit mid to low. Single figures in our towns and cities. Rural spots can expect a touch of particularly for of frost, particularly for Central Scotland down central southern scotland down into quite into northern england. So quite a to morning a chilly start to monday morning. There will also be a touch more monday more cloud around on monday compared weekend. Compared to the weekend. So i cant to wall cant promise the wall to wall sunshine some had sunshine that some of us had throughout saturday and sunday, but brightness still poking but some brightness still poking through. Sunshine in there, through. Hazy sunshine in there, showers feeding into the far southeast of england. Few southeast of england. A few scattered across northern scotland temperatures scattered across northern scotlanc up temperatures scattered across northern scotlancup a temperatures scattered across northern scotlancup adegreezratures scattered across northern scotlanc up a degree ortures scattered across northern scotlanc up a degree or so 5s perhaps up by a degree or so compared to sunday, generally around 11 to 13 c. The winds, though, will be strengthening in the southwest, and that is due to this area of low pressure thatis to this area of low pressure that is gradually going to push its way northwards as we head towards increasing towards tuesday. So increasing we gales develop we starting to see gales develop for wales and southwest for parts of wales and southwest england as we head tuesday. England as we head into tuesday. Most of us should dry most of us should stay dry dunng most of us should stay dry during daylight hours, though. Just shield of cloud just this shield of cloud gradually pushing its way northward. So again, sunshine northward. So again, sunshine turning in place as this turning hazier in place as this rain, though, will eventually move its in as we head into move its way in as we head into the part of the week. The middle part of the week. Potentially heavy and potentially heavy at times and some is possible. So some disruption is possible. So do up to with the do keep up to date with the forecast. Bye well, its coming up to 9 00 on television on radio and onune on television on radio and online in the United Kingdom and across the world. This is mark dolan tonight in my big opinion. Why has the conflict in the middle east become left versus right . People are dying. Whats right . People are dying. Whats happening shouldnt become another chapter in the culture wars. After a number of their stars back, hamas and they refused to call them terrorists. Refused to call them terrorists. We have the bbc let britain down over there. Israel stance and it might take a ten. As the countrys former top banker says , the push to decarbonise is getting too expensive. The crazy dream of net zero is running out of gas. To hours of big opinion, of gas. To hours of big opinion, big debate and plenty of entertainment along the way. In my big opinion, in two minutes time i will be calling out the moral blindness of the woke left. You wont want to miss it. Im not