Always, as you know, i want to hear from you. Its a crucial part of the programme. Email me. Mail at gbnews. Com now its time for the news of the day with Polly Middleton hirst. Jacob, thank you. Well, good evening. The top story tonight, the Prime Minister has confirmed today that the northern leg of hs2 is being cancelled. Speaking after weeks of speculation, rishi sunak told the conservative Party Conference in manchester today he is ready to talk tough. Well, hes defended talk tough. Well, hes defended the move, saying the money will be better spent developing projects in the north and the midlands. Hs2 will still run from london euston but current management, he said, will no longer be responsible. Well reinvest every every single. Penny. £36 billion in single. Penny. £36 billion in hundreds of new transport projects in the north and the midlands across the country. This means £36 billion of investment in the projects that will make a real difference across our nation. Across our nation. Well, in reaction to that, the former Prime MinisterDavid Cameron, has criticised the announcement, saying that a once in a Generation Opportunity has been lost and the mayor of greater manchester, andy burnham , said the new Investment Plan didnt create a coherent transport network. But the mayor of the west midlands, andy street, said hes disappointed with the decision but believes it is a good compromise. With the decision but believes it is a good compromise. Well, it is a good compromise. Well, in his speech, the Prime Minister also reaffirmed his commitment to stop small boats crossing the english channel. Our new law will ensure that if you come here illegally , you if you come here illegally, you will be detained and swiftly removed. Now, i am confident that once flights start going regularly to rwanda, the boats will stop coming. Just look at will stop coming. Just look at how our returns agreement with albania has seen the numbers coming from there. Fall by 90. I am confident that our approach complies with our International Obligations, but know this i will do whatever is necessary to stop the boats. Stop the boats. Well, in news away from conference, the sunderland man who died after being attacked by an xl bully has been named by Northumbria Police as ian langley. Police attended the incident last night following reports a dog had injured the 54 year old who was taken to hospital with life threatening injuries. A 44 year old man has injuries. A 44 year old man has now been arrested on suspicion of murder. And an investigation of murder. And an investigation has been launched. The dog was destroyed at the scene. A second dog was seized. And lastly , a dog was seized. And lastly, a sixth person has been arrested in connection with the crooked house pub fire in staffordshire. A 23 year old from leicestershire was arrested on suspicion of conspiring rac to commit arson with intent. Hes commit arson with intent. Hes been released on conditional bail while the investigation continues. News four men and a continues. News four men and a woman were previously arrested in connection with the fire that destroyed the iconic pub in august. Us gb destroyed the iconic pub in august. Us gb news destroyed the iconic pub in august. Us gb news across the uk august. Us gb news across the uk on tv in your car , on digital on tv in your car, on Digital Radio and on your Smart Speaker by saying play gb news. This is britains news channel. When you britains news channel. When you were doing Bible Studies at school , scripture or divinity, school, scripture or divinity, whatever you called it, you will remember the story of elijah , remember the story of elijah, elijah, the prophet of god and there was a drought over the land and he prayed god that the drought should end. Drought should end. And suddenly he saw in the distance a cloud no bigger than a mans hand. And the cloud got a mans hand. And the cloud got bigger and bigger and the rain came and the drought was ended. And the prophet bits and priests of baal were made to look remarkably foolish. Now, is this remarkably foolish. Now, is this whats happening with the Prime Minister today . Has he provided us, us tories with the cloud no bigger than a mans hand . And are the prophets of baal the socialists about to be made to look remarkably foolish . Because for a while, up until fairly recently, with our high tax burden and costly green policies, it seemed as though britain was destined to tax and spend low growth economy with a socialist government in the offing. But a few weeks ago a shift seemed to occur. It began shift seemed to occur. It began with the Prime Ministers announcement to delay the ban on new petrol and diesel cars on oil and gas boilers. Indeed, expand , ending production in the expand, ending production in the north sea and removing costly greenhouse regulations. But theres more. For about a week theres more. For about a week before the Party Conference, jeremy hunt announced plans to tackle the 5. 4 million working age out of work benefit recipients and at the conference, the chancellor announced a freeze on Civil Service jobs , which im service jobs, which im delighted to say hes been criticised for by the Civil Service union , the fda, who said service union, the fda, who said it was straight out of the rees mogg playbook. Jolly good. Rees mogg playbook. Jolly good. And today the Prime Minister has taken the Bold Decision , an taken the Bold Decision, an difficult decision to scrap the northern leg of hs2. And this is northern leg of hs2. And this is the right decision because its saving taxpayers money. Its not being wasteful and its not getting along with an old and tired consensus. And these are the steps on the path to election victory next year. The way to win the election and solving british woes is what i said at the mondays growth rally. And on this programme later. Its cutting taxes , its later. Its cutting taxes, its supply side reforms, deregulation , boosting growth deregulation, boosting growth and cut taxes. We need to cut and cut taxes. We need to cut spending. We cant just run endless deficits. Hs2 is expected to cost over £100 billion upon completion. Todays decision apparently saves £36 billion before you add on any further overruns, which are bound to have been. We currently have nearly 100,000 more Civil Servants than we did in 20 1516. The blob has a proclivity to expand and that comes with a cost. Expand and that comes with a cost. Freezing expand and that comes with a cost. Freezing recruitment expand and that comes with a cost. Freezing recruitment will cost. Freezing recruitment will save you taxpayers money and an integral part of growing the economy is getting britons back to work. And so the benefit reforms are crucial. And rishi sunak highlighted these in his speech to getting our economy growing. But weve also got to growing. But weve also got to make life better for consumers and put consumers first. Net zero reforms. We need to have because they were just going to make life so costly for consumers. We know about electric cars being £20,000, at least heat pumps, £15,000, pushing these back until the technology is better and the pnces technology is better and the prices are lower, will save you and me thousands of pounds. So it seems that the Prime Minister is looking to cut spending, paving the way for tax cuts, reforming net zero, which along with reforming our benefits system, will allow the economy to grow. And actually we havent to grow. And actually we havent been doing too badly so far anyway. The revisions from the office of National Statistics show that we outgrew france, germany and japan in since the pandemic. And as the Prime Minister rightly said, this was because of brexit. Its good news and it will be what wins the conservatives the next election if it carries on and if we have more of it. But the debate tonight is , is this debate tonight is, is this enough to convince nigel farage to join or possibly even rejoin the tory party well, im delighted to say that the great man joins me now. Now, nigel jacob. Well, look, its interesting , isnt it . Because, you know, David Cameron as leader of the conservative party, described me and ukip and we were fruitcakes, loonies, closet racists and theresa may couldnt even bear to sort of hear the letters ukip, let alone the surname farage. So actually, i thought the response that rishi sunak gave to chris hope did show a change of thinking. Thats probably because sunak realises is that the ovennhelming majority of people who pay good money to go to manchester actually would agree with many of the things that ive campaigned on for all these long years. I also think , and i years. I also think, and i picked up at the conference a fear of Richard Tyson reform, because and its richards conference this weekend , and i conference this weekend, and i will go along and show support because they are going to put candidates up. You know, he he will announce this on saturday. So theres also a bit of that going on as well. I mean, look, you know, youre right. You know, i think youre right. I think what he did on net i think what he did on the net zero policies few weeks ago zero policies a few weeks ago was thing. Hasnt got was a good thing. He hasnt got rid any of this. Rid of any of this. Youve got to further but youve got to go further on that. But youve got to go further on yeah, he just kicked it into yeah, he just kicked it into the long grass and thats a slight improvement. The long grass and thats a slightimprovement. Thought the long grass and thats a slighs21provement. Thought the long grass and thats a slig hs2 decisionent. Thought the long grass and thats a slig hs2 decision was thought the long grass and thats a slig hs2 decision was the ught the long grass and thats a slig hs2 decision was the right the hs2 decision was the right decision. Always thought, decision. Ive always thought, why would you spend over 100 billion just to make london easier to get to . Because frankly , that was what it did. Frankly, that was what it did. Well, and thats what the tgv did france. Did in france. Paris bigger and it just made paris bigger and stronger and more firms relocated id love to relocated there. And id love to think that billion get think that 36 billion would get spent wisely and spent well and wisely and quickly the other parts of quickly in the other parts of the country, connecting up the northern towns and cities. So i agree with that. But there were agree with that. But there were two things about today. One, two things about today. One, i think hes a very decent bloke , think hes a very decent bloke, probably a very good accountant , but but hes not an aspiring leader. You know, i, but but hes not an aspiring leader. You know, i, i dont sense that potential tory voters have watched the news or the debates tonight and theyre going, ooh, hes our man. And its what he didnt talk about that i thought was extraordinary. No mention of legal migration, no mention of the fact that when we get the figures in a couple of weeks time, its going to be over a Million People for the last two years whove legally. Net net, yes. Gross itll be nearer. 2 million have legally settled in the uk. And when it settled in the uk. And when it came to stop the boats, frankly, that was pathetic. I was looking that was pathetic. I was looking for four letters for the last two days with suella speech today with rishis x echr if ever there was an issue that would genuinely complete the brexit project , regain would genuinely complete the brexit project, regain our judicial sovereignty. But interestingly drive a massive wedge between the tories and labour at the next election. It was that didnt hear a word , but was that didnt hear a word, but at the moment he cant do anything about the echr , can he . Anything about the echr, can he . Because you wouldnt get it through the house of commons, let alone through of let alone through the house of lords, therefore withdrawing lords, and therefore withdrawing from and from the from the convention and from the court to manifesto court needs to be a manifesto commitment the next commitment for the next election. Yes , but now was the moment yes, but now was the moment to say so ahead the labour to say so ahead of the labour conference next week. Now was the moment to say so, and he didnt do it. In fact, he did the opposite. He said, we will, we will continue and we will accept International Obligations, obligations. And obligations, obligations. And this was his chance to say today we are deeply unhappy with echr. Were going to go and speak to the polls and the slovaks and the polls and the slovaks and the italians and others. And we will try to get some wholesale change. Well, they tried that. Ken clarke tried that a few years ago, not with great enthusiasm, but you could but getting back to your point of whats he say whats possible, he could say that were going to do that is what were going to do if were unsuccessful , well, if were unsuccessful, well, then wait for the next conservative manifesto. Okay, lets turn round. Isnt it lets turn this round. Isnt it your come back to the your duty to come back to the tory party . Because i know you dont but we in dont like it, but we are in a two party system and the next election, either the conservatives labour conservatives win or the labour party win. The conservative party will win. The conservative party will win. The conservative party does 75 of what you actually like . No and theres 25. Jacob, im really sorry. And youre absolutely adored by the conservative members. They flocked round you like bees to a honeypot. It was quite remarkable. It was extraordinary. It was like boris being the Party Conference and you dont quite have the hair, but othennise it was like boris being at Party Conference. Being at the Party Conference. Yes. Owe it the yes. Dont you owe it to the conservative party to come and give little bit of oomph give us a little bit of oomph and some charisma and lend some of your charisma to conservatives . My support i just cant give my support at moment in time to an at this moment in time to an organisation has the organisation that has put the tax highest in tax burden up to the highest in 71 that is today extended 71 years, that is today extended the nanny state through this ludicrous idea that, you know, youre 26, you cant buy cigarettes, youre 27, you can to a party that has that was the hollowest line of that speech with a party of small business. Oh, no, youre not. Oh, no, youre not. Youve put up Corporation Tax by 30 this yean Corporation Tax by 30 this year. I are 35 stays in place making life incredibly difficult for sole traders, while 35 is a menace and should have been abolished. And frankly and frankly, the differences between the conservative party and the labour party and the next election are going pretty election are going to be pretty narrow. Both they are narrow. They are both they are both big state social democrats, but theyre not starmer wants to follow rules on on everything. Hes completely committed to all our international obugafions all our International Obligations and wants to make them as is. He wants to make them as is. He wants to make them more onerous. Im sorry. Rishi sunak today confirmed also doing confirmed that youre also doing that, and i both know we that, and you and i both know we should deregulate , stayed should have deregulate, stayed away rules far more. Away from eu rules far more. Well, i tried to when i was going to get rid of all four. Oh, there you are. Youre now agreeing with you see that . Agreeing with me. You see that . Actually, the differences are not that great. Now what saying is that now what im saying is that you with 75 tory you agree with 75 of tory policies your patriotic policies and that your patriotic duty the tory party duty is to help the tory party because britain because you want britain to be better it would be better governed and it would be a to let sir keir in a disaster to let sir keir in and you to. And therefore, you need to. I think , come along, join the think, come along, join the party, join people like you. You know, are popular with know, you are popular with conservatives. I know that. And help get policy in the right direction. Ive a feeling jacob, that what has happened this week has given richard tice and reform quite an opportunity. And i quite an opportunity. And i think for the longer term , i think for the longer term, i think for the longer term, i think what needs to happen is i think what needs to happen is i think this conservative party, this iteration of the conservative party, needs to lose. It needs to go into lose. It needs to go into opposition and rethink exactly what it is and what its for. And i think there is a potential role for a realigning of the centre right of british politics, but its not going to happen with jeremy hunt as chancellor and its not going to happen , im afraid, with with happen, im afraid, with with a remainer led cabinet and its not to happen with good not going to happen with a good accountant, bloke as accountant, a nice bloke as leader. We need a different leader. This we need a different kind of politics. And i think you know, of a starmer you know, one term of a starmer government , they may be government, they may be marginally than the marginally worse than the conservatives, one our best conservatives, one of our best prime in history was Prime Ministers in history was basically accountant basically a good accountant in the form of pitt. Younger. But thats an the younger. But thats an opportunity for another discussion. Think discussion. Basically. I think nigel the highest nigel is a tory of the highest kind, even if hes not formally a member of the conservative party. But we can discuss the difference another occasion. Party. But we can discuss the differ forget another occasion. Party. But we can discuss the differ forget to nother occasion. Party. But we can discuss the differ forget to lether occasion. Party. But we can discuss the differ forget to let meoccasion. Party. But we can discuss the differ forget to let meoccasi what dont forget to let me know what you think. Male margaret gbnews. Com. The break, gb news. Com. After the break, well gbnews. Com. After the break, well looking into the well be looking into the question hs2 with a question of hs2 with a pugnacious former editor of the sun plus , is it time to ban sun plus, is it time to ban smoking for the next generation altogether. Radio. Neil says, well, welcome back. First, ive got to say im still Jacob Rees Mogg. Im so excited by the mail mugs that i was getting on to them without reminding watching reminding that youre watching state im state of the nation. But im sure forgotten that sure you hadnt forgotten that you. Neil says it you are wise lot. Neil says it doesnt matter what sunak says because talk no because hes all talk and no action to win back voters. He action to win back voters. He needs take action if he wants needs to take action if he wants to stop boats, he have to stop the boats, he would have done now. Alan says done it by now. And alan says the speech did indicate the pms speech did indicate that some common sense might be returning the tory returning to the tory party. However ill reserve judgement until i see some not until i see some action, not just words. It was a decent just words. It was a decent speech and it was i think, definitely a decent speech and i was knocking on a few doors later on today, on the way back from manchester and it was really interesting. People really interesting. The people who didnt want who were saying they didnt want to starmer, but they to vote for starmer, but they wanted the conservative wanted to see the conservative party properly party being properly conservative. Also interesting how electorate is. How polite the electorate is. I met charming man who met the most charming man who would never vote for me and loathed brexit. But was so loathed brexit. But he was so polite about it that it polite of it about it that it does give you great confidence in british democracy. So so the big of today was the much big story of today was the much anticipated even anticipated leaked, even scrapping of the northern leg of hs2 , which minister hs2, which the Prime Minister formally in formally announced in manchester. Oddly, in a repurposed railway station. And repurposed railway station. And this is a triumph for those of us whove been calling for frugal spending and cutting waste. Hs2 has been a disaster. Waste. Hs2 has been a disaster. When first introduced in the dying days of Gordon Browns premiership, it was meant to cost a total of £20 billion and now , now its predicted to have now, now its predicted to have a total cost of over £100 billion. As britain remained estimated. The stretch of hs2 from london to birmingham will cost £396 million per mile, making it one of the most expensive railways anywhere in the world. In france, similar projects cost. Just £46 million projects cost. Just £46 million per mile. The projects been branded unachievable by the infrastructure and projects authority, but this saga points to a crisis in the cost of infrastructure in britain. Why are we spending up to ten times that of our european counterparts on railway Infrastructure Projects . Well, the problem seems to lie, among other things, with our labyrinth thin Planning System which has never found an extra cost it didnt like. So the challenge for the Prime Minister is now ensuring that the 36 billion sale saved is spent sensibly rather than going into endlessly expensive planning. Complicated opfions expensive planning. Complicated options rather than widening roads and removing bottlenecks in the railway. Thats a bigger in the railway. Thats a bigger challenge than cancelling the project. Its stage two of the cut. Joining me now is the cut. Joining me now is the director of Consumer Packaging manufacturers alliance, Mike Ridgeway , live from yorkshire. Ridgeway, live from yorkshire. S0 mike, is this just a case of so mike, is this just a case of bad project management really from the outset with hs2 . Thats a bigger challenge than count. Hello mike, can you hear me . Im hello mike, can you hear me . Im not sure. Okay, mike cant hear not sure. Okay, mike cant hear me, but fortunately ive got a Brilliant Panel who are going to discuss this with me, the former editor kelvin mackenzie, editor of sun, kelvin mackenzie, and to and the contributing editor to novara walker. Novara media, michael walker. Michael, didnt this project just start badly in terms of what they were trying to achieve and the costs associated with that . And since then, its got worse . So i mean, i think the idea that having speed rail that having high speed rail between british britains major cities is a bad idea is a little bit mean, france has it. Bit odd. I mean, france has it. Spain do why not . What spain can do it. Why not . What is about britain, is exceptional about britain, which we have which means we cant have because went because well, because we went for very speed. For the very highest speed. Line had to be that meant the line had to be absolutely made that meant the line had to be abs costly made that meant the line had to be abs cost the made that meant the line had to be absicost the highest made that meant the line had to be absicost the highest it made that meant the line had to be abs cost the highest it could ade the cost the highest it could possibly be. That if you had possibly be. And that if you had a slightly speed, can a slightly lower speed, you can do much cheaply. So do it much more cheaply. So thats the big design flaw. Then were those and then why were those design there . And i think design flaws there . And i think the problem with infrastructure in this country and i think youve landed on something there which is the Planning System, i think problem was think the bigger problem was that were in that the conservatives were in government. Going government. This was going through and lots through the chilterns and lots of in the home of nice places in the home counties, costs counties, and so the costs massively because they massively ballooned because they had so much of it had to put so much of it underground. A underground. Now thats a shame on couple levels. One, it on a couple of levels. One, it made expensive. Made it incredibly expensive. Two, the train two, if im getting the train from to birmingham, from from london to birmingham, its nice to the its quite nice to see the countryside around whats countryside around you. Whats the countryside if no the point in countryside if no one it . So we have one can see it . So we do have a problem whereby think youve one can see it . So we do have a problenmanyeby think youve one can see it . So we do have a problen many nimby1ink youve one can see it . So we do have a problen many nimby toryyouve got too many nimby tory backbenchers made it backbenchers that made it incredibly youve incredibly expensive. Youve also which, also got a government which, because so because its sort of lost so much under, im going much capacity under, im going to use word neoliberalism. To use the word neoliberalism. Im sure dont subscribe to im sure you dont subscribe to that, idea being you that, but the idea being you sort of strip back the capacity that, but the idea being you so the strip back the capacity that, but the idea being you so the civiln back the capacity that, but the idea being you so the Civil Service1e capacity that, but the idea being you so the Civil Service theypacity that, but the idea being you so the Civil Service they have of the Civil Service they have to get in mckinsey, they have to get manage the whole get in kpmg to manage the whole thing. And youve got those thing. And then youve got those those those those consultant ses, those middle arent middle managers who arent trying costs down trying to keep costs down because really in because thats not really in their interests. Think in their interests. I think in france, youve got some france, in spain youve got some proper in the civil proper engineers in the Civil Service they take state service because they take state projects. Projects seriously. Well, nobody apparently ever spoke who ran hs1 spoke to the man who ran hs1 about which is about how to do it, which is just extraordinary failure just an extraordinary failure going kelvin, are going back years. So kelvin, are we just incapable of building things cheaply and properly . Were. Were fine. For rishi, who thank god for rishi, who recognises that 36 billion is a hell of a lot of money and with a bit of luck and the following wind, none of that will be spent in the north anywhere. In the north or anywhere. It will simply go into the we are trillions debt. We are are trillions in debt. We are a small country. Were not doing very well at the moment economically. We have no money. So i am delighted. Im further delighted that actually David Cameron decides to come out. I dont know where hes been. Hes obviously been in that kind of caravan. Hes got, you know, he spent a lot of time in there. Hes finally said something. Now this is a guy scarpered this is a guy who scarpered immediately. He found out that people like he did people didnt feel like he did about right. So his about europe. Right. So his touchstones almost touchstones are almost non existent. , to my non existent. He was, to my mind, the worst of the conservatives, a neo liberal conservative, a shocking , conservative, a shocking, shocking person. But he now says that we now cant produce this. We cant produce that actually , we cant produce that actually, at the moment, i dont think we should even be thinking about producing anything. We have no money. And until we have money, we shouldnt be doing anything. Nobodyis we shouldnt be doing anything. Nobody is running their household on the same basis as either a conservative government or god help us, a socialist government. Government. Ive always rather liked David Cameron, but leaving that to one side, michael, my main objection to hs2 to was that all the economic evidence is that money is better spent on roads, not rail. In terms of economic consequence , and that if youre consequence, and that if youre spending tens of billions of pounds, you should spend it on the thing where 87 of journeys are taken. Thats on the roads and we spend it in this glorious 19th century romantic ism of railways. Weve watched far too railways. Weve watched far too much Agatha Christie on the orient express. Orient express. Michael portillo and thats right. Right. And its so bad economics , and its so bad economics, but we havent built any railways since the 19th century, so it seems a little bit strange to sort talk about 19th to sort of talk about 19th century romanticism. We havent the problem is we havent replaced those railway lines. Crossrail, crossrail, crossrail, i mean, crossrail, yeah but underground. I yeah, but thats underground. I mean, was great. That mean, crossrail was great. That was something everyone was something that everyone complained the time and complained about at the time and now in always busy. Now its in place always busy. Everyone i think everyone loves it. I think the idea constantly start idea that constantly we start these then cancel these projects and then cancel them saying , look, them instead of saying, look, sometimes youve got to spend a bit will reap sometimes youve got to spend a bit benefits will reap sometimes youve got to spend a bit benefits in will reap sometimes youve got to spend a bit benefits in the will reap sometimes youve got to spend a bit benefits in the future. Reap the benefits in the future. I disagree with honestly, i disagree with you. Dont start a lot of you. We dont start a lot of projects and cancel them. Are projects and cancel them. We are cancelling specifically projects and cancel them. We are cancellirit specifically projects and cancel them. We are cancellirit is specifically projects and cancel them. We are cancellirit is massivelycifically because it is massively expensive havent the expensive and we havent got the wherewithal to pay for it. So now weve come up with another way of doing it, which will take a and as people a very long time. And as people point out, rishi nor any conservative minister will conservative Prime Minister will be around to see it through. And i think thats a very good point, right, because point, though, right, because rishi standing rishi sunak was standing in front the country today front of the country today saying make long saying hes going to make long term brighter future. And then he said, this and then he said, well, this is going to take 20 years, so we might as not bother. Right. Might as well not bother. Right. Well, long term well, if youre making long term decisions for a brighter future, but with a whole but hes come up with a whole takes 20 years doesnt mean you shouldnt come up a shouldnt just come up with a whole range things that will whole range of things that will take years. Whole range of things that will take come years. Whole range of things that will take come up years. Whole range of things that will take come up on years. Whole range of things that will take come up on a years. Whole range of things that will take come up on a back rs. Whole range of things that will take come up on a back of a. They come up on a back of a. And youve been the ah, and youve been in the cabinet. You are a senior politician. What is it about ordinary people who, when given the , opms other the chequebook, opms other peoples money for you that they have to spend it . Did you feel a pressure . Sign off on stuff . No. I never supported hs2. The thing i found difficult was when i was bound by collective responsibility , me having to responsibility, me having to pretend that i thought it was a good which i dont think good idea, which i dont think i ever did convincingly. Ever did very convincingly. Talking about asking if were talking about asking you you see that . Did you this, did you see that . Did you this, did you see that . Did you colleagues you . You see colleagues around you . Not conservative not necessarily conservative colleagues, associates colleagues, but associates who were to were who felt that they had to leave a legacy, and leave an imprint, a legacy, and therefore they would sign the i think often people wanted think very often people wanted to spend money as a of to spend money as a sign of their success, as minister. Their success, as a minister. Didnt. Their success, as a minister. Didnt. I always wanted i didnt. I always wanted to not spend your money anyway. Im delighted to say joining delighted to say that. Joining me the director of me now is the director of Consumer Packaging manufacturers alliance, ridgeway, alliance, Mike Ridgeway, live from yorkshire. Mike, thank you from yorkshire. Mike, thank you very for bearing with us very much for bearing with us and getting the gremlins out of the technology. Do you think this is just bad project management was it always management or was it always a flawed scheme . Flawed scheme . Sir jacob flawed scheme . Sirjacob im very pleased flawed scheme . Sir jacob im very pleased to have the opportunity of talking to you. Theres a combination of problems. Undoubtedly there was problems. Undoubtedly there was bad involved and the bad management involved and the cost overruns quite amazing. I would draw your attention and you would be very interested in this. Brunel built the this. When brunel built the Great Western railway that was overshot by 3 to 4 times and it was because of engineering problems building the maidenhead bridge, sonning cutting and box tunnel, which youll all know very well now cost is important, but what we over not looking in this debate is what the generation is going to be from the railway. Now its estimated at euston the development on that area for business would generate something in the order of £50 billion, billion for an eight. £8 billion investment. You go up to manchester and were talking about a hundred billion investment and its the growth from the railway thats going to be beneficial and i would draw your attention also to jacob, to our other Infrastructure Projects in this country over the years. When we built the m25, there was a lot of fuss about do we want to build this motonnay around london . Is it going to be used, used . And you know what its used . And you know what its like now its just a car park a lot of the times. And of course theres the channel tunnel. The channel tunnel designed and channel tunnel was designed and people would say, cant build it. Too expensive. People will be. Too expensive. People will be frightened to go in there and all that sort of thing and where will we be . But these these are these are really, really good points. And you say about the and what you say about the Great Railway about Great Western railway and about the channel has one key the channel tunnel has one key difference that both of difference and that both of those were done on private money. And if theres this 50 billion return around euston and 100 billion return around manchester, then it would be perfectly reasonable to offer this the private sector, this up to the private sector, not to put it on the backs of the taxpayer for. But if the Business Case is there, the taxpayer would get a benefit from it. I know what you mean about investing in government money invested in commercial projects. Not a particularly good record, but this this railway line, hs2 would last for a hundred years. Its not to going fold up in a decades time. So there is a lot decades time. So there is a lot of Long Term Benefit coming from this. But i think the rigour of private Sector Investment and indeed the risk of losing money, which obviously some of the early investors in the channel tunnel did actually leads to better cost control and better management of projects and that because taxpayers seem to have unlimited cash, government run projects are always more difficult and more likely to overrun on. One thing that did come out of the discussion this afternoon from the Prime Minister was the fact that hes taking the management of the euston end of the railway out of the hs2s managements hands. The railway out of the hs2s managements hands. Now i thought that was quite encouraging because there should be a better discipline there on the investment and the capex requirements for that sort of investment. Now its a great pity investment. Now its a great pity that that process hasnt been used in other parts of the line, but we are where we are. Line, but we are where we are. We spend an awful lot of money on this and i just think its a terrible mistake to cut it short now and it should be allowed to go into manchester and get the benefits over the longer term. Benefits over the longer term. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining all right. Well, thank you so much forjoining me. We havent much for joining me. We havent got into the conversation i normally have with guests from yorkshire the benefits yorkshire about the benefits between yorkshire and somerset, but wins. Thank you so but somerset wins. Thank you so much. After a few messages from much. After a few messages from our sponsors , no more a levels our sponsors, no more a levels and no more rip off degrees. And no more rip off degrees. Its education, education, Education Plus should the nhs pay Education Plus should the nhs pay reparations for slavery radio. Welcome back. Im Jacob Rees Mogg and youve been getting in touch with your thoughts. Pat says at last, money is being diverted away richest cities in away from the richest cities in england cancellation of england with the cancellation of hs2 across the hs2 and shared across the country where infrastructure and investment its lowest. Investment is at its lowest. Peter, why does it take years and cost billions to confirm what the everyday people have been saying from the start of hs2 . I agree with you entirely, peter. Chris jacob we need nigel to be Prime Minister and the only party he achieve this only party he can achieve this is by rejoining the conservative party. A quiet word. Well party. Have a quiet word. Well i was very public word was having a very public word with encouraging him to with him, encouraging him to rejoin. Im supporting the Prime Minister. Weve got rather than speculating others , speculating about others, though, some people that manage to were keen to show off to were quite keen to show off their virtues in case there were ever a vacancy. So so education, education, education is another topic of the day after the Prime Minister announced his pledges for britains future students. Rishi today announced the rishi sunak today announced the shake up of our secondary Education System. A single qualification. The advanced british standard. This qualification will bring together a levels and their apprenticeships sibling t levels. Students will study five subjects rather than the current three, including some form of mathematics. And im not sure all my children are delighted about this. Mary and english, up until the age of 18, he claimed this was bring us up the ranks against our competitors, not only with the number of subjects taken, but with the number of hours spent in classrooms and with teachers. Our Education System been broken for too system has been broken for too long. Ought reflect the long. It ought to reflect the needs economy and not needs of our economy and not the interests universities that interests of universities that received sums of for money received huge sums of for money providing second tier degrees in which the lessons are done remotely. Indeed teachers remotely. Or indeed the teachers are on strike. What we need is tradesmen, not gender studies graduates. Well im now joined by former a level and gcse examiner and is garfield and teach from founder of the Oasis Charitable trust. Steve chalk. Thank you both very much for joining me. Anneliese, do you joining me. Anneliese, do you think this is a long overdue reform that will really help people and will help the economy long overdue . We shouldnt be wallowing in out of date Education System. Out of date Education System. Our children are pupils need to meet the modern world, cope with the modern world, and some of them do want to go to universities. I see that theres a good swipe at universities, which is a good thing, but some people dont care. Some children, pupils dont care about economic success. They want to take interest in humanities and should be allowed to do go to university. But on to do go to university. But on the other hand, a lot of children want employability. Children want employability. They want jobs. Ready, ready for them to go into a job and they should be catered for in our schools because rishi was pretty critical of the 50 target, wasnt he . That that labour said. Do you think this is a target that its worth getting rid of formally . Worth getting rid of formally . Absolutely. And was very absolutely. And i was very surprised that you quoting our labour minister , our prime labour minister, our Prime Minister , tony blair, who said minister, tony blair, who said education, education, education, without defining it, saying 50 should go to universities without defining what they should do at these. What its interesting what are known as mickey mouse universities and what what rishi sunak refers to as rip off degrees and, steve, do you agree with that . Do you think that getting rid of that target is sensing nil or its not just about education, its not just about education, its also about the type of society that we ought to want to achieve . I i think its about all of those things, jacob and i think. That all of those things, jacob and i think. That what rishi sunak said today about a levels t levels can binding them. Levels can binding them. I think thats a wonderful aspiration. My concern about it all is, of course that this will not kick in for anyone except those who just entered Primary School at the very beginning of reception classes this year , reception classes this year, 2036. It makes any difference. 2036. It makes any difference. So the question is what happens now . And ive got some other questions as well. When the Prime Minister talked about government failing for the last 30 years and he was to going turn that around, i think for all educationists , they wouldnt all educationists, they wouldnt recognise that figure at all. 30 years. They talk about the last 13 years of education being squeezed and the Prime Minister didnt talk about the priorities that i hear our staff and other staff in other schools. We run 54 schools around the country. But as i talk to education lists, their priorities are different , whereas they think different, whereas they think its fantastic that we do something decent with 16 to 18 education, 16 post 16 education, their priorities , as im sure their priorities, as im sure you know, are absenteeism, Mental Health. The fact that what sir Kevin Collins said, we needed 15 billion to sort out the Mental Health issue that never came up. Their issues about or about the retention of teachers is because of the very poor resources in the classroom. There issues are about an education all the way through thats wide enough to hold every child there. What about neurodiversity , steve . This this neurodiversity, steve . This this will this will widen education. Sorry to interrupt, but we need to discuss the other bits. But this wider education by making people do five subjects rather than three, therell be an £30,000 free bonus an up to £30,000 tax free bonus for teachers teaching core subjects. So there will be money subjects. So there will be money for teachers. Isnt that very for teachers. Isnt that very welcome positive your welcome and positive from your point course. Point of view of course. All thats welcome if it comes about, but its a long term time in the future. I think. What education is concerned about and i think would be flabbergasted that the Prime Minister didnt talk about 14 to 16 education as well, because as you all know, a better than i do , even those who better than i do, even those who introduce ken baker, who introduced concern lviv, secretary of state for education, who introduced gcse fees and assessment at 14, says that thats not fit for the modern world. So for me, none of this really went far enough. And the bit that does go far enough. I agree about the a levels and t levels is almost like a pipe dream. Its so far in the future. Those are my questions about it. I dont know how you see it and are you concerned about this that its too all far off before anything actually happens . And also theres dismissing of everything thats happened in the last 30 years. I personally think the gove reforms from 2010 were really very important and very successful and the work done by nick on reading has been transferred national its very difficult. Youve got to have ambition and youve got to plan for the future and it doesnt happen overnight. And im sure the chalk has very good ideas. Hes chalk has very good ideas. Hes got very good colleagues. Hes a teacher himself and if we had more teachers like him and how do we attract them. And let do we attract them. And let children study what they want to instead of being compressed into narrow set books, subjects at a level, our a levels are restricting this back type system, and i dont know why it wasnt introduced when it was first asked me. Rooted my father first asked me. Rooted my father was on the committee that recommend it, but then we went to gcse. Now, mr chalk, do you to gcse. Now, mr chalk, do you think gcses and acids were a goodidea . Think gcses and acids were a good idea . Well ive got to draw the conversation conclusion there, but. There, but. But thank you. Sorry. Im sorry. Weve got to move on. But sorry. Weve got to move on. But thank you very much to anis and steve and i think we all know everyone knows is that there are teachers who turn out to be absolutely inspirational to the people they teach. I saw that in people they teach. I saw that in my own education. And i see it with my children coming up while the nhs should be busy treating patients, its been pontifico writing about much more important matters reparations for slavery welcome back. Im still identifying as Jacob Rees Mogg and you know this still identifies as state of the nafion identifies as state of the nation. Well, all ears were nation. Well, all ears were listening closely for the Prime Ministers announcement on hs2 earlier, but he also took the opportunity to announce reforms to our smoking laws. The official proposal is to increase the legal smoking age by one year every year for followed to its logical conclusion in 2083, a 74 year old gentleman will have to ask his elder friends to buy him cigarettes and will be idd all the time to make sure were not sneaking a packet of marlboro lights when were not quite old enough. This policy comes from the khan review last year inspired by the somewhat sinisterly named smoke free agenda, which doesnt mean free cigarettes or free to smoke wherever you like. It means getting rid of smoking, which is a aim because smoking a worthy aim because smoking kills. Sunak said, nobody kills. And as sunak said, nobody wants to smoke. Wants their children to smoke. And children listening and if my children listening know dont want you to smoke, know i dont want you to smoke, even though all favour of even though im all in favour of liberty. But when the law eventually phases almost eventually phases out, almost all smokers, there will come a time when theres person time when theres one person left whos legally left in the uk whos legally allowed smoke. When allowed to smoke. And when that person the person dies, what happens to the billions revenue the billions of revenue that the taxpayer claws in or the treasury in that pays for treasury claws in that pays for many our Public Services with many of our Public Services with me now christopher snowdon, me now is christopher snowdon, head lifestyle economics head of lifestyle economics at the. Now thank you for the iea. Now thank you for coming on, christopher. The one thing that rishi said that resonated with me was this point that no parent wants his or her children to smoke. I certainly children to smoke. I certainly dont want my children to smoke. This is marvellous. I mean, it means two of my children will legally be allowed to buy cigarettes and the other four wont be. Way, shouldnt wont be. In a way, shouldnt i be that rishi should be be saying that rishi should be tougher and bring it for 16 tougher and bring it in for 16 year now . Year olds now . Well , it depends. Well, it depends. Well, it depends. I mean, i would rather have my child grow up in a free country, to be perfectly honest with you. And, you know, when shes an adult, shes going to be an adult. Its for me be an adult. And its not for me to her what to do anymore. To tell her what to do anymore. And not for the and its certainly not for the government her what government to tell her what to do. I we have here a do. So i think we have here a fairly preposterous and illiberal no illiberal policy. Theres no point liberty case point making the liberty case about particularly , you about this, particularly, you know, some people feel that adults shouldnt have the right to other to Smoke Tobacco and other people feel differently. But the way this is being done in particular, it strikes me as absurd. Im very surprised that absurd. Im very surprised that somebody seems reasonably somebody who seems reasonably sensible and intelligent, like rishi sunak, would go along with this idea thats been imported from where it hasnt from new zealand where it hasnt even introduced yet, even been introduced yet, thereby Jacinda Ardern before she off the sunset she drifted off into the sunset. Its going to lead, like you say, to some pretty absurd outcomes. One of the obvious outcomes. One of the obvious consequences will be that people who are old enough buy who are old enough to buy cigarettes will sell them to people who arent equally people who arent and equally obviously the black market, which to which already according to government makes up 18 government figures, makes up 18 of sales , will blossom of tobacco sales, will blossom even further. Well christopher, thats the thing i worry about most on this proposal is that if you make a once legal product illegal, as we found with prohibition, then that really ends up being a blank check to organised crime because they then take over the market and in 20 years or so, 30 years it would be black market cigarettes that would be organised crime. And its very difficult to make a once legal product illegal. Yeah, south africa banned tobacco during covid during the lockdowns. The government took the excuse to use it as an excuse to ban tobacco. And unsurprisingly, you saw this massive black market. Theres obviously a huge black market with prohibition of alcohol. Obviously a huge black market with prohibition of alcohol. In 1920s, war on drugs has not 1920s, the war on drugs has not been won. Essentially what rishi sunakis been won. Essentially what rishi sunak is saying here is he wants to front in the to open up a new front in the war drugs. And for what . To war on drugs. And for what . To stop adults smoking cigarettes. Nobody wants children to smoke cigarettes. We have lots of laws to prevent that. And to try and prevent that. And very children actually do. Very few children actually do. Theres 1, 11 to 15 theres only about 1, 11 to 15 year smoke anything like year olds smoke anything like regularly. But its absurd to have a two tier society really is what were saying. Were saying its for okay adults to smoke so long as theyve already started smoking. But these this group people can never do it. Group of people can never do it. Okay. Well, thank you very group of people can never do it. Okichristopher. Nk you very group of people can never do it. Okichristopher. I you very group of people can never do it. Okichristopher. I d0 u very group of people can never do it. Okichristopher. I do recall much, christopher. I do recall an leading article in the times that said england free rather than england sober may be a noble motto, england free noble motto, but england free rather england cancer free rather than england cancer free may be a different one. Moving on. The may be a different one. Moving on. The nhs is yearly budget. Its about £180 billion. Services. Its waiting services stretched. Its waiting lists are high. Doctors still go on strike, but in spite of all of this , a hospital in scotland of this, a hospital in scotland has decided that what its most concerned about is reparations for slavery. The crisis hit nhs lothian has decided to publish a report establishing how the Royal Infirmary of edinburgh may have profited from the slave trade, amounting to a sum of roughly £40 million in todays money. As a result, its proposed a number of restorative measures , including a rather measures, including a rather patronising approach to people of african descent as well as commissioning artworks which are bound to victims bound to be ghastly to victims of slavery. As is pathetic gesture really points to a broader problem. You cannot not undo the past. These gestures do not benefit those who suffered , not benefit those who suffered, but the cost falls on taxpayers alive today. Well, my brilliant alive today. Well, my Brilliant Panelis alive today. Well, my Brilliant Panel is still with me. Im michael. This is perhaps a very unfair question for you, but if youve got a hospital and you are waiting for a hip operation , why dont you want the money spent on that rather than on some fancy testicle reparation for something that happened a couple of hundred years ago . I mean this to me. Every now and again we get asked talk about stories that every now and again we get athink talk about stories that every now and again we get athink are|lk about stories that every now and again we get athink are justbout stories that every now and again we get athink are just completely that i think are just completely ridiculous and this is one of them. Were to someone them. Were speaking to someone who in government who has been in government for a few the past 13 years. Few years of the past 13 years. There are 7 Million People waiting on waiting lists. The highest its ever been. Dont just blame covid because it had doubled already the doubled already before the pandemic of sudden , now all now all of a sudden, now all of a sudden, that doubled of a sudden, well, that doubled before was double before before it was double before anyone had covid anyone had had covid 19. Anyone had had covid19. , it seems to me youre now, it seems to me youre trying to deflect blame to one single hospital where it seems like probably a member of staff wanted to rectify some issues that the hospital had with the slave trade. I think there was an investor or one of the surgeons sort of bequeathed to the to the hospital a slaving plantation or whatever. Now, clearly, this shouldnt be the priority of the people managing the nhs, but its not the priority of anyone managing that hospital. This is just a nice gesture which a hospital has made. Theyre not paying any to money anyone, by the way. Theyre just commissioning a painting. A painting. And we do have a crisis the nhs. It has crisis in the nhs. It has absolutely to do with crisis in the nhs. It has absoluttcommissioningo with crisis in the nhs. It has absoluttcommissioning paintings people. Commissioning paintings isnt this the sort of stuff that be exposed by a that needs to be exposed by a free press and a free media . Because its what focuses the mind not do mind of bureaucrats, not to do really things. Mind of bureaucrats, not to do really well, ngs. Mind of bureaucrats, not to do really well, look , i feel yes, well, look, i feel sorry. The cancer scares in in scotland are shocking and the cancer figures are the worst. I mean its just shocking, shocking organisation, an nhs thats sort of the history of alcohol abuse in scotland, isnt it . More than. More than. More than. Well, i dont know what the reason is, but it is awful. So you wouldnt want to be ill in scotland thats sure. But scotland, thats for sure. But isnt it really the isnt it, isnt it really the case . This is tremendous case . This is a tremendous political divide coming on political divide coming up on this reparation can be, im this. If reparation can be, im taking it, that there will be socialists there. I mean, you know, take it as read because there arent there are no conservatives scotland, as conservatives in scotland, as you right. Reparation you know. Right. The reparation becomes issue that labour becomes an issue that labour embraces and the conservative side of the country, not necessarily conservatives. The necessarily conservatives. The conservatives say this is ridiculous , that 207, 83 years ridiculous, that 207, 83 years later were talking about handing money or making art or doing anything for them. I think theres a tremendous amount of Political Capital to be made out of it. This is a ridiculous story, a ridiculous hospital concentrating on something rather than worrying about patients. Well, i think the telegraph and i think jacob is probably trying to make Political Capital out of this. People care more i think people care more about they wait about how long they have to wait for their hip hop. Thank very much. I want thank you very much. I want reparations the dissolution reparations for the dissolution of monasteries. Of the monasteries. Thats my priority. Mother priority. Money. Holy mother church. Thank you. Thats all from next, patrick from me. Up next, Patrick Christys patrick, what have you got of fare this evening . Absolutely. Fantastic show. Absolutely. Fantastic show. Jacob. Im going to be talking about or the about whether or not the language braverman language is Suella Braverman used speech was okay. Is used in her speech was okay. Is it too offensive . I obviously think not. But some people certainly do not farage the return of him the return of him to the conservative party. Could that ever happen . Ever be ever happen . Will he ever be prime one day . The Prime Minister one day . Ah, the conservative now the only conservative party now the only Party Standing for party really standing up for women is king charles right women and is king charles right to cave in to andrew and let him live out days in luxury . Live out his days in luxury . That sounds extreme. Well, that sounds extreme. Interesting. And languages is so important. The wind of change thatis important. The wind of change that is turning into a hurricane or typhoon youre in the or a typhoon if youre in the far east, thats all coming up after the weather where i hope there wont be either typhoons or hurricanes. A typhoon in england would most unusual. England would be most unusual. Ill at 8 00. England would be most unusual. Ill jacob at 8 00. England would be most unusual. Ill Jacob Rees Mogg. It 8 00. England would be most unusual. Ill Jacob Rees Mogg. This 0. England would be most unusual. Ill Jacob Rees Mogg. This has im Jacob Rees Mogg. This has been and im been save the nation, and im sure youre waiting with bated breath out that the breath to find out that the weather tomorrow breath to find out that the weaibe tomorrow breath to find out that the weaibe perfect tomorrow breath to find out that the weaibe perfect. Tomorrow will be perfect. Hello there. Im Jonathan Vautrey here of your gb news Weather Forecast provided by the met a bit of mixed met office. A bit of a mixed picture as end off the day picture as we end off the day weve rain lingering weve got rain lingering across parts ireland parts of Northern Ireland southern scotland will just sink its into parts of its way southwards into parts of Northern England well before Northern England as well before generally into the generally petering off into the second the night, generally petering off into the second some the night, generally petering off into the second some other1ight, generally petering off into the second some other areas of rain though, some other areas of rain just push their way just beginning to push their way into Northern Ireland into parts of Northern Ireland throughout as throughout the early hours as well. Amount cloud well. A good amount of cloud around the around will hold up the temperatures for most places around 13 c. Parts of around 11, 13 c. But parts of northern scotland drop off northern scotland will drop off a down into those a touch more down into those single figure values under the clearer have here. This clearer skies we have here. This rain spread its way in rain will then spread its way in as throughout thursday. As we head throughout thursday. Quite to day quite a damp start to the day for ireland, then for Northern Ireland, then into western western western scotland, western england seeing england and wales also seeing a fair amount rain throughout fair amount of rain throughout the. Faux southeastern the day. Faux pas southeastern areas though , areas of england, though, staying with some staying largely dry with some sunny here. So a sunny spells here. So a relatively day across the relatively fine day across the board. Well be quite breezy for most taking edge off most of us taking the edge off some temperatures some of those temperatures a touch, 19 c possible in the touch, but 19 c possible in the south. Generally more around the 16, further north into 16, 17 c. Further north into friday. This mixture of low pressure and High Pressure continues. Generally High Pressure stuck towards the south, helping keep things south, helping to keep things relatively fine and dry. But this frontal system this trailing frontal system across Northern Areas will continue outbreaks of continue to bring outbreaks of rain could turn quite rain at times could turn quite persistent really into areas of scotland , particularly once this scotland, particularly once this next moves in later on in next pulse moves in later on in the day. But further towards the south, by ulez gb news. Good evening. The top story good evening. The top story tonight, the Prime Minister today confirmed the northern leg of hs2 is to be scrapped in his speech at the conservative Party Conference in manchester. Speaking about the high speed rail network, after weeks of speculation, rishi sunak instead unveiled a plan for Network North saying that the £36 million saved will be better spent on developing northern transport routes. The eastern leg to east midland parkway is also scrapped. Hs2, though , will also scrapped. Hs2, though, will still run from london. Euston to manchester, but it will run on existing tracks from birmingham onwards. Heres what rishi sunak had to say. Well reinvest every single. Penny single. Penny £36 billion in hundreds of new transport projects in the north and the midlands across the country. This means £36 billion of investment in the projects that will make a real difference across our nation. Difference across our nation. Well, in reaction to that, the former Prime MinisterDavid Cameron criticised the announcement, writing on twitter that a once in a Generation Opportunity city had been lost and just about an hour ago, former Prime MinisterBoris Johnson added, i agree to David Camerons post and the mayor of greater manchester, andy burnham , said the new Investment Plan didnt create a coherent transport network. But the mayor of the west midlands, andy street, said although he was disappointed at the decision, he believed all in all, it was a good compromise. Now believed all in all, it was a good compromise. Now away from good compromise. Now away from the Party Conference, five people have been arrested after Just Stop Oil protesters interrupted tonights performance of Les Miserables at