Commit to tax cuts. Rishi sunak said his focus is on halving inflation because it impacts the poorest the most. On a visit to burnley, the pm insisted his approach is deeply conservative, saying its a thatcherite policy i be the best tax cut that we can deliver right now is to halve inflation. Now thats something that im deeply committed to. Its the first of my five priorities. Why . Because thats how we can help people with of living. We just with the cost of living. We just want money in want to put more money in peoples pockets. And the best way that now is way to do that right now is through halving inflation. And that a deeply conservative that is a deeply conservative approach and approach to this. And my colleagues understand this approach to this. And my cowhatues understand this approach to this. And my cowhatues underthatcher this approach to this. And my cowhatues underthatcher did. S is what Margaret Thatcher did. Set to be key issue tax is set to be a key issue over the next four days, with more 30 mps promising more than 30 tory mps promising not to support the autumn statement if it contains any hikes. Shadow Health Secretary wes streeting says theyre right to question the pms tax policies, including inheritance tax. After 13 years of conservative government we end up in a position where even its own mps are having to campaign against their unfair tax policies. And i think conservative mps are quite right to say how is it that weve got the worst, highest tax burden in 70 years . They should also be asking rishi sunak why , instead asking rishi sunak why, instead of thinking about cutting taxes for working people, hes looking to give himself and other super rich people a tax break by cutting a tax that affects 4 of people in this country. A tax cut that would earn him personally £300 million, a key part of the Windsor Framework has come into effect for Northern Ireland with a new system introduced to move products from Great Britain goods which are being transported to the eu will use a red lane which includes customs declarations, while those bound for Northern Ireland will use will use a green lane with minimal papennork and no checks i this is gb news across the uk on tv, on Digital Radio and on your Smart Speaker by saying play your Smart Speaker by saying play gb news. Now its back to free speech nation. Free speech nation. Hate speech laws in new york threaten to kerb satire. Suella threaten to kerb satire. Suella braverman gets accused of whistling to dogs and officers in the navy are told to announce their pronouns. This is free their pronouns. This is free speech nation. Welcome to free speech nation. Welcome to free speech nation. Welcome to free speech nation. Welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. This is the show where we take a look at Current Affairs politics and the latest antics of those culture warriors who insist theres no such thing as a culture war. While theyre busy waging their culture war. Coming the tonight, coming up on the show tonight, childrens author Rachel Rooney coming up on the show tonight, chilnharassed,1or Rachel Rooney coming up on the show tonight, chilnharassed, abused iel rooney coming up on the show tonight, chilnharassed, abused and ooney was harassed, abused and libelled by activists for writing a book. The society of authors failed to defend her and its chairperson. Even retweeted the attacks. Rachel joins me tonight to tell her story. Also, tonight to tell her story. Also, ill be speaking to sean corby, a Government Employee who was accused of promoting racist ideas because he said that he believed in Martin Luther kings approach of judging people by approach ofjudging people by the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin. Yes thats right. Martin luther king is now racist. The satirical website the babylon bee is challenging a new york law that could criminalise satire as hateful speech. Im satire as hateful speech. Im going to be talking to the babylon bee ceo seth dillon, about this threat to artistic expression. And of course , expression. And of course, myself and my fantastic panel will be answering questions from myself and my fantastic panel willstudioswering questions from myself and my fantastic panel willstudio audience uestions from myself and my fantastic panel willstudio audience and ons from myself and my fantastic panel willstudio audience and my from our studio audience and my comedian panellists this evening. Are leo kearse and jojo sutherland are. And jojo of sutherland are. And jojo of course, not often in this neck of the woods, but youre on the road at the moment as a comedian, very much working away, working, gigging, travelling. And how has this travelling. And how has this week been for your travelling . Travelling. And how has this week i ha1 for your travelling . Travelling. And how has this week i ha ha. your travelling . Travelling. And how has this week i ha ha. Genuinelyelling . Travelling. And how has this week i ha ha. Genuinely so, g . Ha ha ha. Genuinely so, because i travel so much , ive because i travel so much, ive given up my house and im in a hotel and staying with friends in belfast and i got up in the middle of the night to have a pee. So i went to the loo, except i didnt really quite remember where i was. And went remember where i was. And i went out my Hotel Room Door and out of my Hotel Room Door and left the door slammed behind me and a bit discombobulated. And still a bit discombobulated. It was just like, i dont think this where loo is and but this is where the loo is and but also realised i didnt have my key and i was dressed only in very ill fitting pants and nothing so how nothing else. And so how glamorous you see, people think its a rock and roll lifestyle and if youve ever tried to sort of because sort of in an of because i was sort of in an annexe to the hotel, all i had to. Then i tried to get help through to get and through a door to get help, and nobody told i had to go nobody was told i had to go outside to go then knock on outside to go and then knock on the hotel door a man was the hotel door where a man was absolutely he probably absolutely appalled. He probably thought mad woman thought you were some mad woman in her pants. Well i am a mad woman, but. But in this current climate, really did think woman, but. But in this current clima about really did think woman, but. But in this current clima about openingd think woman, but. But in this current clima about opening theink woman, but. But in this current clima about opening the door to twice about opening the door to me. Just, know , just i me. Just, you know, just like i really dont. Me. Just, you know, just like i reaibutiont. Me. Just, you know, just like i reaibut itlt. Me. Just, you know, just like i reaibut it all worked out nicely but it all worked out nicely in end. In the end. It didnt. He was a night porter and then and then he was also the breakfast waiter. So it didnt well at all. Didnt work out well at all. Okay yeah, theres a moral to okay so yeah, theres a moral to that dont what that story. I dont know what eggs awkward. Eggs is very awkward. Have anything as have you had anything as exciting as that . Leo well, falling off at weekends. I work in hotel. Do weekends. I work in a hotel. Do you and. I feel for you, leo. Well, i feel for you, leo. Well, weve got a lovely studio audience here, so lets get some questions from them. Our first questions from them. Our first question dotty question comes from dotty wheres dotty. Whats wheres dotty . Hi, dotty. Whats your question . Should members of the royal navy be required to introduce themselves by their pronouns . Yeah, this is a new thing thats happened this week. Now, i know this is happening quite a lot in various companies, corporations, that kind of thing. Royal personnel thing. But Royal Navy Personnel now that when they now being said that when they introduce they introduce themselves, they have to their pronouns. This to mention their pronouns. This is before meetings that kind of thing. Know, the thing. And you know, the guidance this a way guidance is saying this is a way to be inclusive. Leo that to be inclusive. Leo is that inclusive . Isnt it a bit weird actually , dont normally actually, dont they normally salute . Is that not what salute . Yeah. Is that not what they normally do . Youve a hat on. Oh, youve got a hat on. Oh, youve got a hat on. Also is that right. The and also is that right. The whole point of being in the military is as you of military is as you sort of subsume yourself to to the the larger unit. Subsume yourself to to the the largso unit. Subsume yourself to to the the largso theres unit. Subsume yourself to to the the largso theres n0|it. Subsume yourself to to the the largso theres no room for sort so theres no room for sort of individual sort of like pride, flags and stuff like that. I mean, youve them in pride, flags and stuff like thaimilitary. , youve them in pride, flags and stuff like thaimilitary. Theyre them in pride, flags and stuff like thaimilitary. Theyre called 5m in the military. Theyre called medals. Yeah i think its just this everythings this this sort of everythings become about me, me, you become about me, me, me, you know, is my identity know, this is my, my identity and sort of stuff. And and all that sort of stuff. And there shouldnt be a place for that in the military. And also the ideology theyre the sort of ideology theyre following of this following this sort of this gender ideology and anti white ideology, theyre going to be turning their guns around on the country theyre supposed to be defending. Well thats a bleak image there. Yeah. Yeah. You absolutely is. But you know, absolutely is. But its one of those things as well. Used to be in the well. My son used to be in the navy, have quite a of navy, so i have quite a lot of inside information on this. But equally, i mean, i think pronouns i mean, absolutely, if somebody referred to somebody wants to be referred to as they them, she, if as they them, he she, her, if thats they previously thats not how they previously i mean if you said me today , mean if you said to me today, actually jojo, from now on, could she her id be could you say she her id be okay. Absolutely. Would you. Yes. Wanted me to even if yes. If you wanted me to even if i didnt an effort to wear i didnt make an effort to wear a anything you wanted a frock or anything you wanted she her. Yeah, but im really kind of loss as to somebody kind of at a loss as to somebody whos been he him all their lives going. Can you refer me lives going. Can you refer to me as im like, i was and i, as he him im like, i was and i, i mean i just if theres a change i will adopt. But the idea here, its not to do with those. Its everyone does it. Everyone, which is just ridiculous. Lot admin. Everyone, which is just ridi |jlous. Lot admin. Everyone, which is just ridii mean, lot admin. Everyone, which is just ridii mean, if lot admin. Everyone, which is just ridii mean, ifi lot admin. Everyone, which is just ridii mean, if i started admin. Everyone, which is just ridii mean, if i started the|in. Everyone, which is just ridii mean, if i started the show i mean, if i started the show now with like im andrew doyle he him . Yes. Yes. You would turn off, lets be honest. You would turn off, lets be horand if were in the and also if were in the middle of battle, she her id middle of a battle, she her id be hello. Middle of a battle, she her id be its hello. Middle of a battle, she her id be its interesting. Youve got its interesting. Youve got news this week. Yeah, that would be interesting. That. I might do i might do that. I might do that. I wouldnt be that surprised, to be honest. But ill tell you if. Youre the if. Yeah, if youre in the middle of a pitched naval battle, you know, admiral nelson didnt to be like, didnt have time to be like, okay, we storm okay, before we before we storm the remember to the enemy ships, remember to tell each other pronouns tell each other your pronouns tell each other your pronouns tell pronouns. Tell the enemy your pronouns. I know. So i think as yeah, i know. So i think as well weve and i have this argument. A about argument. I wrote a show about it, about son being in navy. It, about my son being in navy. But it is that thing in to order have an effective military. Im sorry, we sorry, everyone. Sometimes we have a blind eye to what have to turn a blind eye to what they get up to do. You know what i its like you cant. You i mean . Its like you cant. You cant really to war with cant really go to war with somebody then demand a dvd, somebody and then demand a dvd, saws, happening. Saws, saws, not happening. Get another okay. Well, lets get another question from mike. We question now from mike. Have we got whats your got mike . Hi, mike. Whats your question . Hi, andrew. Possible to define is it possible to define a dividing line between free speech abusive comments . Speech and abusive comments . Are you alluding to what are you alluding to there exactly , mike. But i mean, there exactly, mike. But i mean, you know , weve had this this you know, weve had this this week, of course, as we know something happened, something did happen. Its been on the did happen. Its been on the news, actually, weirdly. So. One of our presenters, laurence fox , made a comment that many people found offensive. And i suppose you want to know whether that falls into the bracket of free speech. I suppose. Whats free speech. I suppose. Whats your on it . Your view on it . Its very subjective. Its very subjective. Subjective, yeah. I mean, my subjective, yeah. I mean, my view is very much that abuse is part of free speech. I mean, i get it every day online and from family members actually. But, but there is a difference, of course, when youre here because, you know, im not saying everything i want to say right now because we are ofcom regulated and its before the watershed. Its not a threat to my free speech because i signed a contract saying i would do that. And i think thats sort of i mean, thats my sort of yeah, exactly. I mean, when you, when you take a job, youve got to abide by restrictions that by the restrictions of that workplace. And lawrence is a really kind, sensitive really smart, kind, sensitive 91w really smart, kind, sensitive guy. It well on this guy. He hit it well on this occasion. And what yeah, what what about so what infuriates me about it. So this woman, this this woman, this commentator talking commentator who was talking about she said some about eva evans, she said some absolutely vile things about about suicide. She about male suicide. She absolutely minimised the impact, deflected and obfuscated the issue of male suicide, which is a serious issue. Its the biggest killer of men under 50. So you know, what she said was horrible. So he should have horrible. So he should have taken her to task over what she said. Instead went, you said. And instead he went, you know, went on this ad hominem attack then was attack that then everybody was just talking that instead just talking about that instead of she said. So, mean, he of what she said. So, i mean, he was own worst enemy was his own worst enemy there. But when when you sign but yeah, when you when you sign up to work at place, youve up to work at a place, youve got abide by those got to abide by those regulations. Believe regulations. I mean, i believe that be able to go that people should be able to go to toilet whenever they to the toilet whenever they want. Doesnt that if want. It doesnt mean that if youre working in a pizza restaurant you can a poo restaurant that you can do a poo in hands and clap while in your hands and clap while youre making a pizza. You know what theres basic what i mean . Theres basic health safety. You health and safety. You know, food, hygiene, regulations, health and safety. You know, food, irestaurants, jlations, health and safety. You know, food, irestaurants, wheres, health and safety. You know, food, irestaurants, where that pizza, restaurants, where that would acceptable would probably be acceptable when of the east when youre outside of the east of you cant poo in your of london, you cant poo in your hands clap. Of london, you cant poo in your har have clap. Of london, you cant poo in your har have you ap. A delivery have you had a delivery recently . But thing is. Recently . But the thing is. Do think, i mean, so do you think, joe, i mean, particularly online. So, i mean, this question about whether abuse free speech abuse encroaches on free speech and seen a lot of and you must have seen a lot of abuse online, but do you think thats free speech to thats your free speech to behave that way or do you behave in that way or do you think should be think that there should be restrictions in that . No no, i dont think should be restrictions. I think that i mean, i think were getting kind quite sort were getting kind of quite sort of ovennhelmed by online and everybodys horrible and everybodys horrible and everybodys but i dont everybodys vile. But i dont think the real think thats actually the real world i think world that we live in. I think were decent. I think were all pretty decent. I think if somebody dropped their wallet now oh, is that your now you go, oh, is that your wallet . Are generally wallet . I think we are generally still kind and to good still quite kind and to good each other. I still think each other. Yes. I still think an is we to tell an occasion is we want to tell someone to go somewhere, you know, colourful in know, in a colourful way. In a colourful way, yes. And particularly the job i do because im a stand up comedian. I that language and the i know that my language and the things i see backstage, gig things i see backstage, a gig are to if im are very different to if im communicating when communicating with somebody when im tesco im doing my shopping at tesco or, know, dropping the or, you know, dropping off the kids school. There is kids at school. So there is a different place for different language know. You language that we know. Do you know we behave know what i mean . We behave differently. Its called reading the room. And i think and i would be appalled if i am incredibly to people incredibly rude to people backstage thats, you backstage because thats, you know, thats years earlier. Yes , but but thats you know, yes, but but thats you know, them, their friends. I know them. I know them. But also my job as a stand up comedian, im not my job is not to deliver end of year data reports. I am going out and deaung reports. I am going out and dealing with uncomfortable and sometimes you know topics that are really kind of triggering them. But the point of comedy is that youre using humour to puncture that tension to make a joke about it, but you have to make people feel uncomfortable. You to rude to you also have to be rude to people. Things i say to people. The things i say to people. The things i say to people a comedy club, i mean, people in a comedy club, i mean, you wouldnt say them here. I wouldnt them. Say them here wouldnt say them. Say them here because, i might. And then because, well, i might. And then really, we come on, lets really, we will. Come on, lets get give me the keys. Im on. Enough of it, jojo. Im on. Enough of it, jojo. Im on. Enough of it, jojo. I think on this show, lets. I think on this show, lets. No. But i know. No, no, no. But i know. No, no, no. But i know. I know not to swear. Yeah, yeah, of course. But i mean, if i was at a stand up, you know, you cant believe what i saw somebody call somebody last night. The stuff you say, some of the stuff you say, jojo. Yeah. Outrageous. Okay weve got another now weve got another question now from wheres sam . Hi, sam. From sam. Wheres sam . Hi, sam. Standing . Oh, my god. Are we standing . Oh, my god. Very normal. Formal questioning given censorship from given increasing censorship from our own government with things like the Online Safety bill and from organisations, from individual organisations, what practical steps can what kind of practical steps can individuals. Take to push back individuals. Take to push back against this sort of creeping authoritarianism . Okay. Okay. Well, sam, what do you think . Because the Online Safety bill sort of went through last week, weve been covering it a lot on this a lot of people this show, but a lot of people didnt really that this was didnt really know that this was happening, you yeah. So happening, you know . Yeah. So and to think that its and i happen to think that its quite a draconian. Its quite dangerous. Do think dangerous. What do you think about dangerous. What do you think abowell, i do wonder whether well, i do wonder whether ive heard it compared to the whole of internet whole creation of the internet compared the new compared to like the new printing when the Printing Press. When the Printing Press. When the printing there Printing Press came out, there was a long time. Was chaos for a long time. Perhaps this is a knee jerk reaction the internet. Yeah, reaction to the internet. Yeah, sure. Because suppose anything because i suppose anything can and, you know, can be created and, you know, anything there anything can be put out there and think they have and people think they have to control it. Leah, what do you think this . Because my think about this . Because my worry is online worry about this is the Online Safety bill effectively the safety bill is effectively the government were going to government saying were going to outsource censorship to big tech or to ofcom and were going to say, this unregulated say, you got this unregulated unelected regulator gets to decide on online. Decide what we say on online. Fine. Now, of course, if it was the government deciding, we can vote right . Thats vote them out. Right . So thats one believe in one thing. I dont believe in state anyway. But state censorship anyway. But when theyre passing it on to people, we didnt vote for, people, we didnt even vote for, thats whole of thats a whole new level of authoritarian i can see. Yeah, we all Public Sector organisations are systemically woke, theyre to woke, so theyre going to theyre use this as theyre going to use this as a tool. Were effectively going to be living in a sort of soft version of china, right, where you know, instead of not being able say tiananmen able to say tiananmen square, you wont be able to misgender anybody. And well, that was the case on up until elon musks on twitter up until elon musks takeover. Have takeover. So people would have their accounts taken off for correctly sex correctly identifying the sex of someone yeah. Someone else. Yeah. Yeah. So i mean, thats that is an odd thing, it . What do you thing, isnt it . What do you make this, jojo . Because make of this, jojo . Because already, people are already, you know, people are very about in very concerned about the way in which social media which that social Media Companies of deciding companies are sort of deciding which opinions are acceptable. Right . Well, it comes to down playground tactics. You playground tactics. Do you know what whos popular, what i mean . Whos popular, whos the whos whos in kid . Whos the cool, kid . Yeah. And if you cool, cool kid . Yeah. And if you collectively decide that we dont fox, then, dont like laurence fox, then, you goes, yep, you know, everyone goes, yep, get him. But we get rid of him. But we collectively that collectively decide that you know, else a paragon know, somebody else is a paragon of virtue. Then we, you know, so whoever it may be at the given time, its that of herd time, its that sort of herd mentality we decide mentality of going, we decide that like you we dont that we like you and we dont like so we will our like you, so we will make our decisions based that, which decisions based on that, which is dangerous. Okay. Leo well, is so dangerous. Okay. Leo well, theres Mission Creep theres always Mission Creep with laws as well, and this is a very law with things very ill defined law with things , they havent , things like they havent defined harmful. So youve got to take down any harmful content. Actually, were about legal but were talking about legal but harmful speech. Were talking about legal but haryeah. ;peech. Were talking about legal but haryeah. Whati. Were talking about legal but haryeah. What on earth does that yeah. What on earth does that even yeah. What on earth does that eve but its also very sort of, but its also very sort of, you its very woolly. And you know, its very woolly. And as as perceived or, you as much as perceived or, you know, or to know, suggested or if made to feel like i dont, you know, if somebodys the victim or the victim to define as opposed to, you know, being an objectively defined, defined thing. So this is going to allow, you know, well see within within a few months or a few years how the government and how ofcom can can exploit this to silence dissidents for example. But the danger were going into is that we the law , the law is is that we the law, the law is black and white. The law is black and white. Theres no emotion in law. But we are now moving into the sphere of changing the laws because emotional. Absolutely because of emotional. Absolutely thats happening. And so its the emotional input that are changing the laws and thats dangen okay. Well, look, get okay. Well, look, lets get another question now from gaynon another question now from gaynor. Where is gaynor . Hi, gaynon gaynor. Hi. Like if rishi id like to ask if rishi sunakis id like to ask if rishi sunak is right about bbc bias. Is rishi sunak right about bbc bias . Okay. Well, the background to this is that rishi has basically had a go at the bbc for what he described as inaccurate commentary and accused them of refusing to pubush accused them of refusing to publish figures. You remember these figures, the gdp figures were revised by the ons , werent were revised by the ons, werent they . And apparently it turns because they were saying for ages that we had been the slowest recover economically slowest to recover economically since the pandemic. It turns out since the pandemic. It turns out we recovered faster than germany and france. Yeah and that does change things, right . Doesnt it . But the bbc just didnt pubush it . But the bbc just didnt publish yeah, absolutely. It . But the bbc just didnt putand yeah, absolutely. It . But the bbc just didnt putand weveih, absolutely. It . But the bbc just didnt putand weve seen solutely. It . But the bbc just didnt putand weve seen this ely. It . But the bbc just didnt putand weve seen this every and weve seen this every time the ons come out with Economic Projections for the uk, theyre always far worse than how the uk actually perform because the ons doesnt want britain to be seen to be succeeding. The ons is anti brexit, its anti tory. So, so yeah, they want to they want to talk that down. The bbc is again another, another part of the woke blob that basically you agree with that joe joe or do you think i know 100. I think manipulation plays a huge part in whatever is going on. And depending they on. And depending what they want, to be. So, want, the outcomes to be. So, you know, of course, mean, you know, of course, i mean, i should say the bbc would claim that they are absolutely impartial or at least they strive impartiality. Impartial or at least they strive impartialty. Impartial or at least they strive impartial because nobodys impartial because we all we all all have opinions and we all have feelings and its that same thing. With policing thing. Its like with policing and that its and government that its manipulated. They will manipulated. They will they will look want drug look at figures. They want drug crime go down so theyll turn crime to go down so theyll turn a being a blind eye to people being arrested for does feel as arrested for it does feel as though. So it depends. They will just manipulate what they start to arrest for to make it look goodin to arrest for to make it look good in the eyes of the public. It does feel as though a lot of people are quite pleased that or a lot people are quite or a lot of people are quite disappointed that were doing better they thought because disappointed that were doing better peoplev thought because disappointed that were doing better people are ought because disappointed that were doing better people are annoying. Iuse a lot of people are annoying. Were glad youre well. Were so glad youre doing well. Boom. Boom. Yeah, well, wanted. Yeah, well, they wanted. They wanted say, well, wanted to be able to say, well, brexit has completely destroyed us economically. Yeah, were us economically. Yeah, they were pointing the time. Pointing to this all the time. It out not true. It turns out its not true. I didnt. I didnt vote yeah, i didnt. I didnt vote for brexit. I voted remain. You did . Ive seen. No, did . No, no. That ive seen. No, that ive seen how much its annoyed all these people you wish had. I could go wish you had. I wish i could go back and vote it. Back and vote for it. Okay, well, we havent okay, well, look, we havent got sorry. But next on got time. Sorry. But next on free speech nation, childrens author rooney author Rachel Rooney was harassed, by harassed, abused and libelled by activists a book. Activists for writing a book. And of authors and the society of authors failed defend her. Rachel is failed to defend her. Rachel is going to be here to speak about her story after by a car because some some idiot is speeding. It is again, we keep on using this expression. Its a gamble. Youre listening to gb news radio. Radio. Welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle, author Rachel Rooney is calling for a non partisan union for authors and illustrators after writing the book my body is me, which encourages children to be happy with their bodies. Rachel was harassed, abused and libelled by activists and the society of authors failed to defend her against such abuse. Defend her against such abuse. Now im delighted to be joined by rachel herself. Rachel, welcome to the show. Oh, thank welcome to the show. Oh, thank you for joining welcome to the show. Oh, thank you forjoining me. A lot welcome to the show. Oh, thank you for joining me. A lot of people might not be familiar with your story. You wrote a book called my body is me. And this is a very compassionate book. Its about how children ought happy with their ought to be happy with their bodies are. Thats ought to be happy with their bivery are. Thats ought to be happy with their bivery positive are. Thats ought to be happy with their bivery positive message. Thats ought to be happy with their bivery positive message. And ts ought to be happy with their bivery positive message. And yet a very positive message. And yet the got was very the response you got was very different. You perhaps different. Do you want. Perhaps you tell us what happened i okay. Well, um , i was okay. Well, um, i was approached by Jessica Ahlberg , approached by Jessica Ahlberg, the daughter of the great Allan Ahlberg , to write a book, um , to ahlberg, to write a book, um, to do just that. Celebrate childrens bodies and, um , it childrens bodies and, um, it came out in, uh, december 20th, 19. Um with transgender trend, who were the publisher and immediately when i was expecting a certain amount of trolling , a certain amount of trolling, but immediately i was set upon by um , a cohort of authors and by um, a cohort of authors and illustrators who , uh, defamed it illustrators who, uh, defamed it and said that it said that it was a proper panda, dangerous propaganda and that, um , i had propaganda and that, um, i had a hateful agenda and that, you know, i was vile and bigoted for doing so. Um which was quite unexpected , really. Unexpected, really. Well, people will be confused about that because people watching wont realise that what theyre saying is they think that by saying that children should be happy their bodies, should be happy in their bodies, you effectively making you are effectively making a transphobic thats the transphobic claim. Thats the idea, isnt it . Well , i can idea, isnt it . Well, i can only guess at what people were thinking, but they hadnt actually read the book. When they were making these , when they were making these, uh, slurs and allegations about me. Um, so im assuming that they think that that is not a good message to send to children. And i think its the only message we should send to all children. I mean, im message we should send to all children. I mean, im a message we should send to all children. I mean, im a special children. I mean, im a special needs teacher by trade. Ive worked with children for 35, 40 years, vulnerable , complex years, vulnerable, complex children and ive never once imparted any other message to any child that ive ever worked with , however complex or with, however complex or profound or multiple difficulties that they have now i whats very strange, though, about this particular case is that, of course, we might expect this from online activists who can quite aggressive and can be quite aggressive and bullying unhinged , frankly. Bullying and unhinged, frankly. But this is coming from largely within the Publishing Industry itself. Am i right about that . Itself. Am i right about that . Yes. Um um, quite, quite well known people , quite established known people, quite established authors and, and librarians and people in positions of power and kind of supported also by some members of the Management Committee of the society of authors , which was kind of added authors, which was kind of added weight to the those claims. Weight to the those claims. And am i right in thinking that the chair person of the society of authors herself retweeted some of the attacks against you . Yeah well, theres one particular thread that was particularly damaging, which , um, added in damaging, which, um, added in the agent that gave me work and said that i was coming for children and that i wasnt entitled to an income at the expense of the welfare of children and that was retweeted by, um, the chair of, of the Management Committee and also by the chair of taoiseach, which is the chair of taoiseach, which is the childrens and illustrators committee. Yeah, i find this absolutely astonishing. I actually have read your book and it is i think its impossible to find it offensive. You know, its so obviously a positive message. So obviously a positive message. So this is really astonishing. I mean, is this a did the society of authors, i mean, one of their claims is that theyre there to protect freedom of expression of authors , but they they failed in authors, but they they failed in this in this case, havent they . Well, they failed to. I wrote to them very soon after expressing my concerns. In fact, expressing my concerns. In fact, ive been writing to them for three years. Uh um , nearly four three years. Uh um, nearly four years asking for them to maybe make a, just a simple statement saying, um, you know , uh, saying, um, you know, uh, untruths are being said about a certain author and, you know , certain author and, you know, maybe rein it in a little bit. Uh, and, and, um. And i was kind uh, and, and, um. And i was kind of held back. I also wanted my, of held back. I also wanted my, my concerns to be, um, expressed to the, all of the Management Committee. I didnt want, but i was held back. I didnt really was held back. I didnt really get past the ceo, nicola solomon. Um, and so i ended up putting in a formal complaint. First of all, naively, i thought that we could have a dialogue, but i felt like i was really on an episode of crown court most of the time. And um , and so the time. And um, and so eventually i put in a complaint which was turned down by nicola solomon. So after that i put in a complaint about nicola solomon so that it would go beyond. So that it would go beyond. Nicola solomon well, partly because i dont think she dealt with me very well. And um, with me very well. Um, and um, eventually there was an investigation that took seven, nine months, a very long time. There was lots of internal politics going on and um, the, the conclusion was not satisfied. I wanted an apology by that point. I wanted an apology. Um, point. I wanted an apology. Um, and a kind of a Public Statement saying that, yeah, they got it wrong. They, they should have , wrong. They, they should have, um, put out something earlier that they could have nipped it in the bud. You know . Yes. And they had shown bias , i think, they had shown bias, i think, against gender critical authors. Um i think theres been some theyve liked tweets that call gender critical authors terfs and banned pots and call liking tweets that said that gender critical accounts should be blocked. So you know there has been and also they withheld some information from me about the defamatory nature of the tweets. I was told it wasnt libellous. And i was told to vaguely seek advice. And, um , they agreed advice. And, um, they agreed amongst themselves to downplay , amongst themselves to downplay, um, any trade issues. So downplay any, um , issues that downplay any, um, issues that might income and might be affected. Affected. Well, i mean, this is all very shocking and i think a lot of people watching will be shocked know that this is shocked to know that this is coming publishing coming from the Publishing Industry the society of industry and the society of authors, the people who are supposed to defend supposed to be there to defend freedom do freedom of expression. But do you that now an you think that this is now an endemic thing . Seen it endemic thing . Weve seen it with j. K. Rowling, gillian, philip, author philip, the childrens author who as a truck who had to retrain as a truck dnven who had to retrain as a truck driver, simply because she tweeted, i stand with jk rowling. I mean, itjust feels like we moving into an like we are moving into an authoritarian era and publishing is being particularly affected. Is there anything that you think people can do . Writers can do artists, these of artists, poets, these kind of people . People . You know, it takes more well, you know, it takes more than, um , i mean, i think they than, um, i mean, i think they need to support. I mean, what happened was, is, um, i was ghosted. I was entirely ghosted by other people. So there was a small cohort of people who were attacking me and continue to attacking me and continue to attack me, but theyre, um , attack me, but theyre, um, other people just turned away and looked away. So like, in a playground, they just looked away. So i just think people need to be a little bit braver. I mean, there were people who wouldnt even retweet. Um, my wouldnt even retweet. Um, my latest poetry collection that came out because they were too scared to so i think people need to just be a slightly a little bit braver on this score. I bit braver on this score. I dont think what happened to me. Go on, rachel. Sorry go on, rachel. Sorry i dont think what happened to me then would happen now in quite the same way, because i think people are getting braver and ive had so much private support , but people are slowly support, but people are slowly dipping their toe in and not not accepting this kind of totalitarian. Totalitarian. So its a kind of safety in numbers idea. I mean, i can understand why people are scared because of the sheer ferocity of some the activist. And as some of the activist. And as youve experienced yourself, actual libel like outright lies, of course, people are scared about that and theyve got to preserve careers. Preserve their careers. But youre saying that all youre saying that if we all just together and said, just stood up together and said, this unfair, thats this is unfair, then thats the way fonnard. Way fonnard. Braver. Just a little bit braver. Just just 10 braver. Thats what im asking. I think thats a very good idea. Rachel rooney, thank you. Ever so much for joining me today. Yeah very good message. Today. Yeah very good message. 10 braver if we all did that, most of these problems could just go away. Well, next on free speech nation nation, were going to get an insight into just stop new student Just Stop Oils, new student recruitment, drive by the writer Charlie Bentley. Astor dont go anywhere. Radio. Welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. Later in the show ill be turning agony uncle with the help of my panel, leo kyrees and jojo sutherland. And were going to you deal with your to help you deal with your unfiltered dilemmas. So if youve all, youve got any problems at all, just email at just email us at gbviews gbnews. Com and we will do our best to answer your problems. As in a wave of leaked emails, it was revealed that everyones favourite eco group just had planned to Just Stop Oil had planned to recruit more than 500 University Students during freshers week and the plans were for the students to take part slow students to take part in slow marches where more than 3000 people aspired to be arrested in order to ovennhelm the police. Order to ovennhelm the police. But fear not, they werent going to send these students in without preparation. The Group Without preparation. The group also called for students to attend non violence training pnor attend non violence training prior to taking part in this civil resistance , including how civil resistance, including how to handle being arrested and exactly what every parent hopes their child will get at university. But joining me now university. But joining me now to this is the writer to discuss this is the writer charlie actor charlie , Charlie Bentley. Actor charlie, thanks. Now you are uniquely placed, i think , to talk about placed, i think, to talk about this insofar as you graduated relatively recently. So you were a student until recently. A student up until recently. What is the sense among the student body about eco protests . Is it just accepted that this is, you know, a kind of group thing . Is thing . Everyone feels this is the right do . The right thing to do . A given. And if you oh, its a given. And if you challenge the ideas of Climate Change and the extent to which its i. E. Its anthropomorphic, i. E. Caused by humans , youre caused by humans, youre denounced as a climate denier and, you know, shunned from from the student community. Okay. And im sure thats okay. And im sure thats wrapped up with all sorts of other high status opinions across the board, right . Yeah. Okay. So you cant you cant be an eco warrior without also believing in gender ideology, without ascribing to Critical Race Theory, this kind of thing i yes, it is odd when you meet someone who holds these views, you can pretty much predict every other view theyve got on every other view theyve got on every other view theyve got on every other subject in their fashion sense and their fashion sense so you were kind sense as well. So you were kind of a heretic, suppose , as a as sense as well. So you were kind ofstudent. C, suppose , as a as a student. I didnt start out that way. So when to university , i so when i went to university, i was blue haired marxist was the blue haired marxist well, not blue, but bright orange. And i ascribed not to orange. And i ascribed not to Just Stop Oil because they were very theyre a very new sort of group. But i very theyre a very new sort of group. Buti ascribed very theyre a very new sort of group. But i ascribed to extinction rebellion, you know, sat there scribbling the cross on my on my notebooks and all the rest of it reading out the facebook posts. You were doing social work for them effectively . Yeah , thats very yeah, thats very interesting. So whats so whats changed . I grew up , started paying i grew up, started paying taxes. As yeah , but yeah, i sort taxes. As yeah, but yeah, i sort of i, i got taught the other side of marxism which is the not the utopia, but the death in the millions and thought, huh, what else am i being lied to about . Very interesting. Okay so but, but you know, the activists will say and they do say that we are facing a climate catastrophe and that, you know, Climate Change is happening. Climate change is real. Weve do real. And weve got to do something quite urgent it. Something quite urgent about it. Chris recently he did Chris Packham is recently he did the documentary about whether we should the law, should actually break the law, whether a whether that should be a legitimate point. Legitimate thing at this point. Do see their point . Do you do you see their point . , ive since picked up no, ive since picked up a more reasonable view of Climate Change. Maybe only since the cost of living has gone up. Ive looked at the costings of these environmental challenges, but also things i was told in school. So when i went up to secondary school, the first thing you get taught about after basic biology is, is Climate Change. And we were sort of told that by, know, 2015 there that by, you know, 2015 there would be no home for the polar bears left. And thats been and gone. And the polar bears still have a home. And i also challenged the extent to which Climate Change is caused by humans and how much we can do about it. And humans and how much we can do about it. And i dont see it worth bank adopting the nation particularly when we make up 1 of Carbon Emissions in the to world make no difference. So why do you think just stop . Oil is targeting students particularly, it looks like i mean, these leaked emails would suggest theres a very conscientious drive to go after young conscientious drive to go after youn think young people are i think young people are impressionable. And older impressionable. And the older activists in these these groups know this. And frankly, preying know this. And frankly, preying upon it. Know this. And frankly, preying uponit. The know this. And frankly, preying upon it. The young peoples need to contribute to society. And i think this all comes from the fact that young people havent had enough boundaries growing up. And so theyve been historically had their their parents to push back against their school, their government. Their school, their government. You know, we think about all these protest songs. Its always been against these authorities. But these authorities are but now these authorities are young peoples best friend. And so young people are lashing so now young people are lashing out for something to push back against. Thats the only thing that theyve come up against is Mother Nature now. So what Mother Nature now. And so what bigger project to push back against than the death of the entire world. So its a kind of rebellion, a need to rebel, which is a kind of urge that young people feel. I think its the need to be told every once and again. Told no, every once and again. So think young people will so i think young people will define their identity in a negative formulation. So they negative formulation. So they 9 negative formulation. So they go, im not that im not that im not my parents, im not this political group. Im not that political group. Im not that political group. Im not that political group. And where no one is saying no to anything, these days, students, young people are lashing out harder and harder , waiting, almost and harder, waiting, almost praying for someone to go, no, thats unacceptable. So do you think that something ought to be done about it . If Just Stop Oil are actively trying to recruit students in their hundreds . I mean , is there their hundreds . I mean, is there something that can be done about that . Is it just about opening up marketplace ideas . Up the marketplace of ideas . Because what you it because from what you say, it sounds like having a conversation these conversation about these issues is quite difficult . Is in itself quite difficult . And you know, like it it is. And you know, like you, im a free speech absolutist and to the furthest extent you can be. And so, you know, i think just like every other society , you know, if other society, you know, if theres a student extinction rebellion, Just Stop Oil contingent, then theyre allowed to go and set up a stall. The same as anyone else. What i would question is the adults who are orchestrate this whole movement and their motivations for recruiting young people and instilling them with this kind of this deep set paranoia that theyre going to die. So whats the solution . Because, you know, ive spoken to people feel that to young people who do feel that we midst of basically we are in the midst of basically armageddon is around corner. Armageddon is around the corner. Its an authentic view. They its not an authentic view. They they quite genuinely they feel it quite genuinely and, you know, they might be right. I dont know. But you know, you have know, how can you have a conversation when someone has actually the opposite actually ruled out the opposite side that debate . Side of that debate . I was one of those well, i was one of those people. I firmly believe i was deeply nihilistic because i thought, well, planet isnt thought, well, the planet isnt going to here in 30 years. Going to be here in 30 years. And adults in room and the adults in the room arent being adults. You genuinely believe that . You genuinely believe that . What yes. Yeah. And so what it took is hearing some of took for me is hearing some of the points the the counter points and the counter know, for counter arguments, you know, for example, Wind Turbines have a, you know, approximately 17. 5 year shelf life and they cost an extortionate amount to take down. And so what we end up having is , is these these having is, is these these killing fields of decrepit turbines, you know, falling apart and rusting. This testament to the to the failed project of net zero because they dont do what were told they do. And so just bringing that that counterargument, as you say , can counterargument, as you say, can at least sow the seeds of changing the mind. So the answer is more conversation, more free speech. Yeah. Whod have thought it . Charlie bentley ofsted , thanks Charlie Bentley ofsted, thanks very much. And next on free very much. And next on free speech nation, will shakespeare to outlast the culture wars. Im going to be joined by historian and writer David Oldroyd bolt. Dont go anywhere. Dont go anywhere. Welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me. Andrew doyle. So its time to for our regular look at the latest news from the world of culture and the arts. And to join me as usual, it is the broadcaster and author David Oldroyd bolt. David welcome back. Thank you. So as usual, theres a lot been going on. Do you want where do you want to start . Yeah, its been a wonderful week for the arts and weve got a wonderful coming up. A wonderful week coming up. So i think lets start looking have looking fonnard. And we have next the london next week the london piano festival this going into its festival. This is going into its eighth its at kings place eighth year. Its at kings place next station. So next to kings cross station. So nice everybody. And nice and easy for everybody. And the directors the Co Artistic Directors are charles owen and katya apekisheva. The focus is this apekisheva. The focus is this year will be 150th anniversary of sergei rachmaninoff, the great russian romantic composer and pianist and the 100th anniversary of george ligeti, the hungarian who is famous for having written some extremely spiky, wonderful modernistic works, the piano suites of the 19805 works, the piano suites of the 1980s and 90s. But viewers will probably also know his music because it appears in the soundtrack to 2001 a space odyssey by stanley kubrick. Yes, and they will probably know a good deal of rachmaninoff without knowing it. Rachmaninoff, that rachmaninoff, im sure that everybody you know rachmaninoff, im sure that eve songy you know rachmaninoff, im sure that eve song all you know rachmaninoff, im sure that eve song all by you know rachmaninoff, im sure that eve song all by myself. You know rachmaninoff, im sure that eve song all by myself. Yesknow rachmaninoff, im sure that eve song all by myself. Yes you the song all by myself. Yes you will know the Second Movement of the second piano concerto. I about suggest one. Youve seen brief if youve ever seen brief encounter, then you know the second piano concerto, because thatis second piano concerto, because that is a soundtrack. Yes, i think one of those think hes one of those composers since composers who, ever since he wrote, incredibly wrote, has been incredibly popular critics popular with the public. Critics were about were very sneery about rachmaninoff because they thought fashioned and thought he was Old Fashioned and they thought was schmaltzy. They thought he was schmaltzy. They backward they thought he was backward looking. They didnt think he was and hard edged was up to date and hard edged and enough. Yes. But and modern enough. Yes. But actually, i think this not actually, i think this is not really out by listening to really borne out by listening to the as will your the music, as you will your viewers will at the festival. Absolutely. And this the absolutely. And this is the kind of festival when weve spoken before, that kind of festival when weve spoikind before, that kind of festival when weve spoikind of before, that kind of festival when weve spoikind of thing before, that kind of festival when weve spoikind of thing b often that this kind of thing is often dismissed elitist that dismissed as elitist and that kind its really not. No, its not at all. The tickets are extremely good value. Music things that, value. The music is things that, even not with even if youre not familiar with it, read a great it, you will go and read a great deal of it. Im there deal out of it. Im sure there is a to the current problems is a nod to the current problems in ukraine there in ukraine because there is vadym kholodenko, ukrainian vadym kholodenko, the ukrainian pianist recital on pianist giving a recital on friday evening and there is also the wonderful all openness of the wonderful all openness of the last morning. On sunday morning there is lucy parham, the pianist, accompanied by tim mcinnerny, the actor who will be reading extracts from rachmaninoffs diaries and letters while she plays pieces of his music to tell the story of his music to tell the story of his music to tell the story of his life. Thats fantastic. This is something that you can easily take your children to and enjoy brilliant easily take your children to and enjoy Just Brilliant easily take your children to and enjoy just remindirilliant easily take your children to and enjoy just remind us. Iant easily take your children to and enjoy just remind us where is so just remind us where is that and how people get tickets . Kings place in london from the the 8th of october. The 5th to the 8th of october. That to say from thursday to that is to say from thursday to sunday, tickets sunday, you can find tickets on kings place online. And i really it. Its been really recommend it. Its been going, as i say now, this is its eighth kings place is eighth year. Kings place is a wonderful acoustic wonderful venue, great acoustic , looking place with , very modern looking place with a. When youre in a superb feeling. When youre in there, you really feel like youre part of a community. Its fantastic. David so what else happening . Whats else has been happening . Whats caught else has been happening . Whats cauwell, ive just back from well, ive just got back from buckinghamshire, doesnt well, ive just got back from buckinterriblyiire, doesnt well, ive just got back from buckinterribly exciting, doesnt well, ive just got back from buckinterribly exciting, do itnt sound terribly exciting, but it is. It has been the sixth clyvedon Literary Festival. This clyvedon Literary Festival. This is held at cliveden house in buckinghamshire which buckinghamshire, which is an extraordinary Charles Barry house built the third on the site, built in the 1850s in the italianate style, it looks like something you would find in florence the festival was florence and the festival was started by natalie livingston, whose ian owns cliveden whose husband ian owns cliveden house now , and it is now an house now, and it is now an extremely grand hotel. And lord roberts, andrew roberts, the historian, it is probably, i would say, the best Literary Festival in the country. The festival in the country. The extraordinary calibre of people coming to speak. For instance, this afternoon you had general David Petraeus , who with lord David Petraeus, who with lord roberts, has written a book on conflict, the evolution of warfare from 1945 until now in ukraine. You have peter frankopan, the great historian whose book silk road was whose book the silk road was such a hit ten years ago and now has written wonderful book has written a wonderful book looking at climate looking at how Climate Change over history has affected the world. It was quite a range here. Oh, yes. And what wonderful is that . It has become a Literary Festival, not a truly Literary Festival, not merely a Literary Festival thats predominantly historical. Novelist maggie. So the novelist maggie ofarrell, who im sure many of your readers , your viewers your readers, your viewers will have gave a wonderful and have read, gave a wonderful and most moving talk about how she came to be a novelist and why she does it. And then you had what i think is possibly the best Panel Discussion ive ever heard on literature, which was sir jonathan bate, the eminent shakespeare historian , talking shakespeare historian, talking to catherine rundell, who has written a book on john donne, the metaphysical poet, and nick laird, the Northern Irish poet, and nick laird. Im sure many of you will all be familiar with, but i really, really , really but i really, really, really suggest they go and get his latest collection of poems. Its extraordinary. That sounds fantastic. Jonathan bate wrote a fantastic book called shakespeare and ovid, which i really, and really, really enjoyed. And then, when talk then, you know, when you talk about hes one of about john donne, hes one of those that he kind of those poets that he kind of takes place in peoples takes second place in peoples minds and marlowe minds to shakespeare and marlowe and people know. And the people they know. But actually, works are actually, some of his works are absolutely and, absolutely incredible and, you know, readable. Yeah. Know, still so readable. Yeah. Done. Falls sort of into well done. Falls sort of into two categories. There is the john donne, was the dean of john donne, who was the dean of saint sermons saint pauls and whose sermons were extraordinary works of fire and blast and brimstone. Were extraordinary works of fire and blast and brimstone. Yes. And blast and brimstone. Yes. And if you go read them now, theres an extraordinary sermon to a newly married couple, essentially saying that everything is now sin , sin, sin, everything is now sin, sin, sin, sin. Thats it. No happiness to the married couple. No. Well done. Go off and enjoy your honeymoon. You should be at every wedding ceremony. Yes, exactly. Bleak every wedding ceremony. Yes, exacwonderfully bleak every wedding ceremony. Yes, exacwonderfully english bleak every wedding ceremony. Yes, exacwonderfully english bleto and wonderfully english way to look Institution Look at the institution of marriage. Then is the marriage. But then there is the metaphysical donne, the man metaphysical john donne, the man who and youre the english dphil. You should be able to explain this better than i. But the man who explores the imagery of in a way that philip of poetry in a way that Philip Sidney and marlowe and shakespeare and shakespeare hadnt done yet, and who i think really breaks the mould. And hes not really appreciated at the time greatly. Since. But i think certainly since dr. Johnson onwards has become very much part of the central canon. Absolutely. And theres absolutely. And theres another story i wanted to quickly cover. This sort of links yes. Well, this sort of links in as having a literary in as were having a literary day, gregory doran, the day, which is gregory doran, the artistic day, which is gregory doran, the artijRoyal Shakespeare company, the Royal Shakespeare company, who has said basically that he thinks that things like sensitivity warnings and awareness of that nature is saying, for instance , in saying, for instance, in a production of richard the third, theres going to be a balloon bursting at some point. Yes, it just far too far and ruins just goes far too far and ruins the point of going to the theatre suggested surprise. There might be some violence in it. In it. Well, you would expect so. Murdered nephews. You know, murdered his nephews. You know, lets not think what happens when they watch coriolanus. Yeah. Titus andronicus. Yeah. Titus andronicus. Yeah. Titus andronicus. Titus andronicus. You know, eating heads , dogs eating eating the heads, dogs eating out the eyes. But this out the eyes. But i think this is good because its is this is good because its someone for being someone who is known for being fairly he was fairly progressive. When he was director of the Royal Shakespeare artistic shakespeare company, artistic director was season director, there was a season that was all women directors. There were gender fluid castings. He was really explored this and has intellectual bases for doing so. But hes also said, look, there are points now where this is just ridiculous. That kind of thing is i mean, that kind of thing is absolutely fine, just absolutely fine, but its just when doing all when everyone is doing it all the feels the time. Yes, it just feels bland , frankly. Well, exactly. Bland, frankly. Well, exactly. And its good you know , as bland, frankly. Well, exactly. And say, good you know , as bland, frankly. Well, exactly. And say, hes you know , as bland, frankly. Well, exactly. And say, hes associated now , as bland, frankly. Well, exactly. And say, hes associated with , as you say, hes associated with the rsc, but the rsc at the moment are pretty guilty of this. Moment are pretty guilty of thisyes, are. I mean, yes, they are. I mean, i think certainly every time i go, i think wouldnt it be nice to watch macbeth that set on watch a macbeth that set on a scottish than scottish heathland rather than a car basildon . Thatd car park in basildon . But thatd be now, wouldnt be quite radical now, wouldnt it . Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. To actually just go back to actually whats play or hamlet whats in the play or hamlet thats denmark than thats in denmark rather than pretending that its a girl whos girl. Yes. As whos a boy as a girl. Yes. As we know, there was a lot of what you might call gender fluid casting the female were casting or the female parts were played was played by young boys. This was part elizabethan and part of the elizabethan and jacobean doesnt part of the elizabethan and jacobethat doesnt part of the elizabethan and jacobethat you doesnt part of the elizabethan and jacobethat you have doesnt part of the elizabethan and jacobethat you have to doesnt part of the elizabethan and jacobethat you have to entirelyt mean that you have to entirely upend the thing and never see the, it were, the classic the, as it were, the classic productions. Shakespeare is relevant now and everywhere because most because he is the most extraordinary writer this language ever produced. You language has ever produced. You dont to turn it on its dont need to turn it on its head order to make it head in order to make it relevant to now. No, it makes it very limits shakespeare. Very it limits shakespeare. You are into putting if you are just into putting him through very narrow him through this very narrow ideological lens happens ideological lens that happens to be ten be fashionable over the last ten years, boring. Be fashionable over the last ten yea but boring. Be fashionable over the last ten yea but this boring. Be fashionable over the last ten yea but this hasyoring. Be fashionable over the last ten yea but this has always been done but this has always been done to hes a man whos to shakespeare. Hes a man whos more against sinning more sinned against than sinning in regard, the in this regard, because in the 18th century, in the 19th century, were given century, the plays were given happy endings. So people enjoyed century, the plays were given hemoreendings. So people enjoyed century, the plays were given hemore orings. So people enjoyed century, the plays were given hemore or they so people enjoyed century, the plays were given hemore or they so p cute enjoyed century, the plays were given hemore or they so p cut down yed it more or they were cut down deeply every age deeply and i think every age tries adapt art tries to adapt great art to itself. But actually the better itself. But actually the better thing to do to appreciate the thing to do is to appreciate the great itself rather than great art in itself rather than trying make it about trying to make it about us. Well, just quickly well, david, just to quickly finish, you have finish, i believe you have something read for us. Well, something to read for us. Well, i would be a shame to talk it would be a shame to talk about and not, quote, about john donne and not, quote, possibly greatest poem and possibly his greatest poem and certainly one that all your certainly one that all of your readers. No certainly one that all of your readers. N0 is an readers will know. No man is an island entire of itself. Every island entire of itself. Every man is a piece of the continent. A part of the main. If man is a piece of the continent. A part of the main. If a man is a piece of the continent. A part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, europe is the less as well as if a promontory were as well as any manor of thy friends or of thine own. Were any mans death diminishes me because i am involved in mankind and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. For thee. David oldroyd bolt. David oldroyd bolt. Everyone , thank you so much everyone, thank you so much for coming in so that is the end of our first hour here on free speech nation. But please do not go anywhere because there is an awful lot to get through between now and 9 00. But before we go, weve got first weve got to go to the weather. Hello there. Im Greg Dewhurst and welcome to your latest news weather forecast. It latest news weather forecast. It stays mixed over the next few days. Stays mixed over the next few days. Well see some rain at days. Well see some rain at times, but there will be some drier and brighter intervals. So temperatures generally on the warm the time of year. Warm side for the time of year. At the moment, pressure at the moment, low pressure generally dominates the weather pattern. But this of pattern. But this area of High Pressure to in pressure starts to move in towards the middle of the week across the south, across the south this evening, though, quite picture, outbreaks quite cloudy picture, outbreaks of rain at times, too. Of patchy rain at times, too. And that continues overnight. And that continues overnight. Some low cloud and murk some low cloud mist and murk developing here further north, generally , some clear generally drier, some clear spells for Northern Ireland, scotland, turning scotland, but turning windy across highlands with across the highlands with showers here and temperatures for most part generally staying in double figures. A warm start for most part generally staying in the ble figures. A warm start for most part generally staying in the dayfigures. A warm start for most part generally staying in the day across. A warm start for most part generally staying in the day across southern start to the day across southern counties of england and wales. Counties of england and wales. Quite cloudy here. There with patchy and then patchy rain and drizzle and then through day well see cloud through the day well see cloud amounts across england amounts increase across england and heavy rain and wales. Some heavy rain developing , bright skies for developing, bright skies for northern and scotland Northern Ireland and scotland through the day, but still some scattered windy scattered showers staying windy across north west of across the north west of scotland. Temperatures high teens to low 20s 22 or 23. Possible towards the far south east where we see any sunshine into tuesday. Weve got early rain clearing south eastwards and then its a bright day with sunny spells and scattered showers. Showers moving in quite quickly across the northern half of the uk on that brisk westerly best that brisk westerly breeze. Best of sunshine across southern that brisk westerly breeze. Best of temperatures ss southern that brisk westerly breeze. Best of temperatures a southern that brisk westerly breeze. Best of temperatures a littleiern areas. Temperatures a little lower, but staying around average over the next few days before increasing further towards weekend. You towards the weekend. See you soon on mark dolan tonight. In my big opinion, the tories are terrible, but on what planet are terrible, but on what planet are labour . The answer . It might are labour . The answer . It might take a ten with the cost of insuring them now through the roof. Its time the plug roof. Its time to pull the plug on cars and my mark on electric cars and my mark meets guest is Boris Johnsons biographer. Were live 9 00 theres plenty more still to come on free speech nation. This week, ill be speaking to sean korb , be a Government Employee korb, be a Government Employee who was accused of promoting racist ideas because he supported Martin Luther kings approach of judging people by approach ofjudging people by the content of their character rather of their rather than the colour of their skin. Lets get a news skin. But lets get a news update first from lisa hartle. Update first from lisa hartle. Im lisa hartle in the newsroom. A promise to increase efforts to stop Illegal Migrants from entering the country has been made at the conservative party conference. Thats as latest figures show more than 537 people were intercepted trying to cross the channel yesterday. The foreign yesterday. The foreign secretary, James Cleverly told the Party Faithful hes working with International Allies to stop the boats. Ive written to all of our ambassadors, all of our high commissioners, and ive instructed each and every one of them to do even more work with them to do even more work with the countries in which they represent the uk to help stop the abhorrent traffic taking of human lives across the english channel. Be in no doubt, no doubt at all. Our diplomats will redouble their effort to bring an end to this terrible , an end to this terrible, terrible injustice. Terrible injustice. Earlier , the tory party earlier, the Tory Party Chairman used his opening address to take a swipe at laboun address to take a swipe at labour. I have these available at the conservative shop outside for just £16. 99. Also online waiving flip flops featuring sir Keir Starmers face. Greg hands mocked the labour leader suggest that he doesnt have a clear position on issues affecting the country. His affecting the country. His comments came just hours after the Prime Minister refused to commit to tax cuts. Rishi sunak commit to tax cuts. Rishi sunak said his focus is on halving inflation because it impacts the poorest, the most. On a visit to poorest, the most. On a visit to burnley, the pm insisted his approach is deeply conservative, saying its a thatcherite policy. The best tax cut that we can deliver right now is to halve inflation and thats something that im deeply committed to. Its first of my five its the first of my five priorities. Because thats priorities. Why . Because thats how we can people with the how we can help people with the cost we just want to cost of living. We just want to put in peoples put more money in peoples pockets. And the best way do pockets. And the best way to do that now is through that right now is through halving that a halving inflation and that is a deeply conservative approach to this. Colleagues this. And my colleagues understand what understand that this is what Margaret Thatcher did. To be a key issue tax is set to be a key issue over the next four days, with more than 30 tory mps promising to not support the autumn statement if it contains any hikes. Shadow Health Secretary wes streeting says theyre right to question the pms tax policies, including inheritance tax. After 13 years of conservative government. What we conservative government. What we end up in a position where even its own mps are having to campaign against their unfair tax policies and i think conservative mps are quite right to say. How is it that weve got the worst, highest tax burden in 70 years . They should also be asking rishi sunak why instead of thinking about cutting taxes for working people, hes looking to give himself another super rich people a tax break by cutting a tax that affects 4 of people in this country. Cutting a tax that affects 4 of people in this country. A tax people in this country. A tax cut that would earn him personally £300 million, a key part of the Windsor Framework has come into effect for Northern Ireland with a new system introduced to move products from Great Britain goods which are being transported to the eu will use a red lane which includes customs declarations, while those bound for Northern Ireland will use a green lane with minimal papennork and no checks. Papennork and no checks. This is gb news across the uk , on tv, on Digital Radio and on your Smart Speaker by saying play gb news now its back to free speech nation. Free speech nation. Welcome back to free speech nation. So lets get some more questions from our lovely studio audience, our first question is from suleiman. Hello. Hi, andrew. Ive got a question. Are we too scared to call people fat . Are you too scared to call people fat . Not really, no. Not really, no. Not really, no. Brutal cinema. Brutal. Brutal cinema. Brutal. Okay. Well, this is so according to the organisation for Economic Cooperation and development, obesity rates in the uk are the highest in europe. Now, i didnt know that. So apparently a quarter of all adults in england are obese and adults in england are obese and a further 37 are ovenneight but not obese. This is again, were not obese. This is again, were not obese. This is again, were not meant to point this out. Is that the idea . Yeah. I mean, i guess were not supposed to say nobody wants to be told that theyre fat. No, you you just find out when you look back at photos of a holiday i well, its not just that. I mean, you know, there is an argument to be made that because of a body positivity movements and that kind of theyre and that kind of thing, theyre basically that theres no basically saying that theres no Health Risks Associated with obesity. Love obesity. Yeah, you should love yourself you are yourself no matter who you are and on eating cakes. And carry on eating the cakes. Been a theres and this has been a theres been explosion on on social been an explosion on on social media is media of fat activists, which is a thing to be, by the way. A tough thing to be, by the way. Its difficult to be fat its very difficult to be a fat activist because if you get if you get too active, you might stop being so fat. Stop being so fat. Its sailing. Its sailing. People. A message. Thats people. A message. Thats nice to hear. People. A message. Thats nice to hear. You people. A message. Thats nice to hear. You know, they can nice to hear. You know, they can hean nice to hear. You know, they can hear, oh, no, you can you can identify you can be identify as healthy. You can be healthy any size. And healthy at any size. And medically, you cant. Healthy at any size. And medically, you cant. You can medically, you cant. You can only be healthy by a normal size. And you with your medicine and science , you go back, you and science, you go back, you look at you look at photos of people in a victorian circus who were like the fat lady. And theyre like, not even fat by todays standards. No they look quite good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you make of this, jojo . Jojo . I wont name the person. They know who they are and i got accused recently of being too thin and that i wasnt eating enough. And the person that said it to me was of above average weight. And i said, i. Youre not eating enough. I suggest it. Youre eating too much. So it. So you were thin chain . Yeah, i was thin. Shane so and the irony is that that actually has become a thing recently because you know me a long time and ive lost a few pounds, but im five foot seven. I weigh stone, which seven. I weigh ten stone, which is the ideal weight is absolutely the ideal weight for height and yet people for my height and yet people continue to say, oh, youre too skinny, know youve lost too much weight, and i think were normalising being ovenneight and were accommodating. Were were were accommodating. Were making things bigger to accommodate people because were too scared to go. When you said stop said to stop eating, when you said to this person , but youre this other person, but youre actually ovenneight. Yes. Actually ovenneight. How they react . How did they react . How did they react . No, they because oh, no, they laughed because theyre a comedian. Yeah. Theyre a comedian. But yeah. No, no, no, because can say no, no, no, because we can say things like that. But no , im things like that. But no, im really about you. Youre really worried about you. Youre not and think not eating enough and i think youre much. Youre eating too much. Seems fair enough. So that seems fair enough. So that seems fair enough. Another question lets get another question now from laura. Wheres laura . Hi, hello. I wanted in hello. I wanted to ask, in your opinion , has bambi gone your opinion, has bambi gone woke bambi . Yeah. So this is a former disney screenwriter whos doing a bambi remake , and she said a bambi remake, and she said that the really famous scene, the one we all remember, i dont have to tell you, its when the mother, the mother always dies. Dies it is brutal. And i do dies and it is brutal. And i do remember it as being very upset as child that. As a child watching that. But shes saying that actually weve got to remove that death scene because today children just cant cope with that. Guess thats the idea, that. I guess thats the idea, right . That. I guess thats the idea, rigiyeah. Mean, i think all yeah. I mean, i think all drama removed from drama should be removed from entertainment because you dont want any compelling reason to watch it and you dont want to be challenged in any way. You know, i think dying should be removed from the narrative because. Because. Do know what i mean . We do you know what i mean . We dont accept that. We. Dont want to accept that. We. Yeah, but is quite healthy . Children . Children taught children need to be taught about death. Thats people have well thats why people have you children goldfish you give children goldfish and pets kill them and. Pets and then you kill them and. Yes, then flush yes, yes. And then you flush them down the so that yes, yes. And then you flush therrcannn the so that yes, yes. And then you flush therrcan experience so that yes, yes. And then you flush therrcan experience deathiat yes, yes. And then you flush therrcan experience death. It they can experience death. Thats that is genuinely the point of having for point of having pets for children, they can children, is that they can experience grief before their mum dies. Experience grief before their mum dies. Bambis, thats how it works. Works. Bambis mum should be replaced with some beyond meat patties. Patties. Well, thanks for that, leo. By the way, here. Bambis mum wasnt very nice anyway, so it doesnt really matter. Yeah so lets weve got another question now omalu. Who omalu. Now from omalu. Who is omalu. Hi. Omalu w m hi. Omalu is based on last my question is based on last week there was a ban on trans anglers taking part in female competition. Yes now, do you think trans anglers have an unfair advantage over female competitors . Its a tricky one, actually, because so we often have these discussions about sports and women and trans individuals in sports and whether that , you sports and whether that, you know, makes it puts women as a disadvantage. Angler as though i mean, i just i cant its like snooken mean, i just i cant its like snooker, isnt it . Yeah. Yeah. I just it just, you know, ripping a fish out of the river. Well, i mean, youre not because some of the angling competitions is like the furthest sea cast with a heavy weight. So the. Yeah. So the trans angler could actually cast twice as far which just shows how terrible women are at fishing and they shouldnt be allowed to fish in the first. Im more of a man than youll ever be. Leo, get over yourself. Trans anglers should be if trans anglers should be allowed compete, only allowed to compete, but only if they their rod removed. They have their rod removed. Okay, thats not a euphemism. I didnt think wed be. Id ever be talking about trans anglers. I do want to move on, though, because we aint much time. Because we aint got much time. Weve question from steve. Weve got a question from steve. Wheres steve . Hi, steve. Our warnings going our trigger warnings going too yeah, well, i mean , i often yeah, well, i mean, i often talk them because do talk about them because i do find slightly ridiculous. Find them slightly ridiculous. But story this but this is a story this week, though, ian mckellen though, because sir ian mckellen has so ian has weighed in now. And so ian mckellen has that trigger mckellen has said that trigger warnings are ludicrous. And, you know, signs know, hes talking about signs on various plays. And i mean, earlier we had David Aldridge bolt talking about this sign, richard the third contains scenes of death, violence and threat. Its richard the third. Yeah. Good yeah. Good its a shakespearean tragedy. What the you expect . What the hell do you expect . And mentions the popping and it also mentions the popping of balloon in the production, of a balloon in the production, which sound bit silly of a balloon in the production, which but sound bit silly of a balloon in the production, which but why . Und bit silly of a balloon in the production, which but why . Why bit silly of a balloon in the production, which but why . Why dot silly anyway. But why . Why do theatregoers need to be warned about everything . Or about absolutely everything . Or people students people reading books . Students that kind of thing. You know, it gets back to your research. Of going if its that thing of going if you know what youre you dont know what youre going to watch, do you know to go and watch, do you know what i mean . And its essentially that you cant prepare for everything. Yeah. And life is full of unexpected turns, but it comes back to death. Grief we dont escape any of that. We dont like it, but of that. We dont like it, but we dont escape it. Cant we dont escape it. And we cant protect ourselves from what is ultimately one of the worst emotions youre ever going to go through. So why are we trying to protect ourselves something protect ourselves from something that avoid . That we cant avoid . Also, isnt kind but also, isnt it kind of making children of us all, insofar as know, we like insofar as you know, we like every , knows that. Richard every adult, knows that. Richard the depicted by the third, as depicted by shakespeare, a bit of an shakespeare, is a bit of an unpleasant yeah. Yeah unpleasant character. Yeah. Yeah and theres going to be some nasty i mean, are nasty stuff. I mean, there are even warning Julius Caesar even a warning on Julius Caesar to suggest might contain to suggest it might contain scenes murder. Well, thats scenes of murder. Well, thats kind of fundamental. People wanting do what do people wanting do people want to go through people just want to go through life just going, nothing happens. Everything. Exactly. So happily ever after. Yeah nothing happens. Nothing happens. Happens. Nothing happens. Went for a picnic at the capital. Everybody going to the theatre is going to be much more hurt and offended the prices hurt and offended by the prices of drinks. Yes. Yes. And the price of the tickets is absolutely unbelievable, you know. Weve got know. Anyway weve got a question now from edward. Where is edward . Hi. Edward. Is edward . Hi. Hi. Edward. Should pub be censored . Should pub staff be censored . Should pub staff be censored . Okay, so. Whoa whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no. Jojo, calm down. Comes to drink, im when it comes to drink, im very invested. I know, i know. I dont want upset and i dont want to upset you. Have put you. We should have put a trigger warning on that for you. Exactly so because whats happened told happened is pubs have been told to phrases on the to ban certain phrases on the grounds that these phrases encourage punters to get drunk. Encourage punters to get drunk. Um, i would say the fact that youre selling nothing but alcohol might encourage punters to get drunk. But some of the phrases are quite interesting. So same again is so phrases like same again is that a double . Yeah in your case. Thats a silly question, isnt it . Isnt it . So , bottle, do you think . So, bottle, do you think . So, bottle, do you think . I mean, this is. Wheres this come from. Its come from the International Alliance for responsible drinking. International alliance for reswell ble drinking. International alliance for reswell soe drinking. International alliance for reswell soe drirs0|g. International alliance for reswell soe drirso this drink well so yes. So this drink responsibly very nature responsibly in its very nature is a complete oxymoron. I mean , is a complete oxymoron. I mean, if youre drinking, clearly youre probably not being responsible. Yeah. The that responsible. Yeah. The fact that pubs people have to pubs now and that people have to have personal licence and they have personal licence and they have responsibility and have to take responsibility and that serve anyone that they cant serve anyone that they cant serve anyone that they cant serve anyone that they think to be inebriated or whats the point of pubs . Or whats the point of pubs . Well, i mean , i just im like, well, i mean, ijust im like, this is a level of madness i cant get my head around. Weve had people talking about how we should ban happy hour that gets people drunk. Yes. Yes it into a yes. Yes turn it into a miserable hour. Yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Dont know what people yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Cdrink now what people yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Cdrink does~hat people yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Cdrink does it. It people yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Cdrink does it. Does ple yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Cdrink does it. Does not think. Drink does it. Does not improve anyone. I ask you but could i also ask you because from scottish because from a scottish perspective, i know well bringing scottish card. No, bringing the scottish card. No, no, no, not to do with the stereotypes, which i know are largely true. Very true. But i mean embodiment. Mean living embodiment. I mean the way the snp , they i mean the way the snp, they put minimum pricing on alcohol. Buy alcohol in so you cant buy alcohol in an off licence before 10 00 in the morning or after 10 00 at night. Im still. So how quickly you get socially ingrained. Yes i you cant drink and so you cant drink outside and so when im down south im like, oh can dnnk when im down south im like, oh can drink outside . Can i take my drink outside . People im people look at me like im a lunatic. And then i go, so like, ill go and buy some cans after here. But here. Of course i will. But. But its that thing of going, oh my god, im in england. I can buy a dnnk god, im in england. I can buy a drink after 10 00 like a grown up. What do you make of that, leo . Because there is a kind of nanny state quality to this. A lot policy, lot of the snps policy, particularly comes to particularly when it comes to this, want you to this, they dont want you to choose yourself whether you choose for yourself whether you get drunk or yeah. Get drunk or not. Yeah. And it completely backfires because unit because then the minimum unit alcohol means that alcohol pricing just means that other cheaper other drugs become a cheaper way of out of your gourd, of getting out of your gourd, which have do in scotland which you have to do in scotland or you know, its not or its, you know, its not a nice i mean, if you lived in scotland, you need to be drunk. Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, im glad im not one saying but not the one saying this, but also Martin Nelson had a brilliant joke when they first brought in of minimum brought in sort of minimum pricing and basically, realistically, its like you can you say what you can minimum you can say what you can minimum price, know, put price, you can, you know, put all rules in place. All these rules in place. That happen is that all that will happen is that more will be going to more children will be going to School Without shoes because it wont change the wont it wont change the narrative in a way. Theyll find a way people will still spend money and, you know, money on alcohol and, you know, itll just increase Child Poverty and all the rest of it. Stuff and the minimum pricing stuff tends affect poorer families tends to affect poorer families anyway, insofar as absolutely. Theyre tax on theyre not putting a tax on champagne or no expensive drinks. No, no, no. Yeah, super lagen no, no, no. Yeah, super lager, three and a half times higher in scotland and in the rest of the uk, which is you know, shocking. It is quite shocking, isnt it . Okay. So youre, you it . Okay. Well, so youre, you dont they should dont think they should be bothering this campaign . Bothering with this campaign . The again, the the phrase same again, the phrase the best thing the government do. Government can do. You want get, get out of you want to get, get out of peoples and the best you want to get, get out of peopli s and the best you want to get, get out of peopli s theid the best you want to get, get out of peopli s the International Thing i mean the International Alliance for responsible drinking, sound like a drinking, they sound like a terrible thunderbird off. Drinking, they sound like a terihaz thunderbird off. Drinking, they sound like a teriha ha. Underbird off. Ha ha. Ha ha. Okay , well, look, next on okay, well, look, next on free speech nation, were going to be talking about the satiric website babylon bee , which website the babylon bee, which is a new york law is challenging a new york law that could criminalise satire as hateful speech. So im going to be to talking the babylon bees ceo, seth dillon, next. Dont go anywhere radio show. Welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. Last year , the state of new york last year, the state of new york passed a law aimed at restricting certain kinds of onune restricting certain kinds of online speech. The satirical website the babylon bee is challenging the ruling that could criminalise satire, hateful conduct is defined by the statute to include online speech that can vilify or humiliate a group or a class on the basis of race, sex and other traits. So to discuss this, im joined by seth dillon, the ceo of the babylon bee, one of the networks challenging the law, and adf lawyer Jeremy Tedesco. And adf lawyer Jeremy Tedesco. Thanks both for joining and adf lawyer Jeremy Tedesco. Thanks both forjoining me. Thanks both for joining me. Seth, i want to come to you first because the babylon bee has been in quite a lot of trouble over the years. I know before elon musk took over twitter, you were actually kicked. So kicked off almost entirely. So you particularly vulnerable kicked off almost entirely. So yo this particularly vulnerable kicked off almost entirely. So yo this pariofilarly vulnerable kicked off almost entirely. So yo this pariof law, vulnerable kicked off almost entirely. So yo this pariof law, arentrable kicked off almost entirely. So yo this pariof law, arent your to this kind of law, arent you . Well well, yeah. And i think its because we make jokes about the popular narrative like a comedian is supposed to , and theres people supposed to, and theres people in positions of power that want to the narrative from to protect the narrative from being think being joked about. So i think a lot these policies, lot of these policies, misinformation , hateful misinformation policies, hateful conduct policies are aimed at at basically putting up guardrails on what youre allowed to talk about, what kind of beliefs youre allowed to express and even what kind of jokes youre allowed yeah, we had allowed to make. Yeah, we had this with twitter this experience with twitter last where we made joke last year where we made a joke about admiral rachel levine, whos a Transgender Health admiral in the biden administration. We named rachel levine, our pick for man of the yean levine, our pick for man of the year, jokingly in response to usa today naming rachel levine, woman the year. And that got woman of the year. And that got us locked twitter jail. Us locked in twitter jail. We ran eight ran twitter jail for eight months busted us out months until elon busted us out of there. So we made a joke we werent supposed to make. We misgendered someone. And this was considered hateful. Interesting so thats really interesting when a lot of people think that when a lot of people think that when comes sort of when it comes to the sort of social justice activists , that social justice activists, that they have sense of they just dont have a sense of humour and they do tend to take everything literally, from humour and they do tend to take everyyoure iterally, from humour and they do tend to take everyyoure saying, from humour and they do tend to take everyyoure saying, frorr be what youre saying, it might be the case that know that the case that they know that these satirical, they these things are satirical, they know that theyre jokes, but they these of they want to use these kinds of legislation to basically have a go at you and stop you because they dont like the fact that youre mocking them. Absolutely. 100. I used oh, absolutely. 100. I used to think personally, i used to think it was just humourless scolds, people who had no sense of and didnt think our of humour and didnt think our jokes were funny or were just ultra sensitive actually ultra sensitive and actually offended i dont offended by them. But i dont think the case. Think think thats the case. I think its primal, fake its primal, eerily fake outrage. They realise that if they pretend to be outraged enough speech , they can enough at your speech, they can put these restrictions in place where they can actually outlaw your speech and make it an even objective. True statements can objective. True statements can become enforceable policy violations, thats how they violations, and thats how they control speech. And they control your speech. And they protect own ideas from protect their own ideas from being protect their own ideas from beiiJeremy Tedesco, can i bring Jeremy Tedesco, can i bring you in here from a legal perspective . This is a relatively new law. Did they not think to carve some think to carve out some exceptions for satire and stand up comedy and that kind of thing . Yeah theres really no exceptions that save this law. I mean, what the states doing here thats so problematic is the state cant censor in this directly. But what this way directly. But what theyre to is theyre trying to do here is co opt private companies and then third users on these then Third Party Users on these platforms the censors platforms as the censors themselves to basically do what themselves to basically do what the government cant do directly through these private parties. So this is a particularly egregious attempt to try to basically co opt people in the private sector to do censorship at the bidding of the state pursuant to a policy thats hateful conduct policy that clearly doesnt, you know, stand up under free speech standards in the us. And so new york knows in the us. And so new york knows they couldnt do this directly and theyre asking these third parties to do for them. So parties to do it for them. So its like a double whammy on free violations it free speech violations and it cant free speech violations and it canyeah, because we have yeah, because we have a similar. We just passed yeah, because we have a sim online. We just passed yeah, because we have a sim Online Safety just passed yeah, because we have a sim Online Safety bill. Passed yeah, because we have a sim Online Safety bill here ied yeah, because we have a sim Online Safety bill here in the Online Safety bill here in the Online Safety bill here in the uk, which effectively outsources those of outsources those kinds of decisions tech and decisions to big tech and unelected regulators. But i would have expected in america with your First Amendment, this isnt going to happen, but clearly there is a problem. Seth dillon is there a growing mistrust free speech, do you mistrust of free speech, do you think, in america . Think, in america . I think so , because what we i think so, because what we have prevailing right now, like we talk about wokeness, we talk about these woke world views. These are worldviews that cant be rationally defended or coherently articulated. They coherently articulated. They have to be insulated from criticism, especially the most effective kind of criticism, which is mockery that exposes foolishness for what it is. And foolishness for what it is. And so in order to insulate worldviews that you cant defend from criticism , you have to put from criticism, you have to put all kinds of rules in place about what can and cant be said. Yes, speech is being said. So yes, speech is being chilled and its being chilled for a reason. That its been do you think that its been a good thing that elon musk has taken and has sort taken over twitter and has sort of a of satirical of brought a lot of satirical accounts think accounts back . Or do you think thats to i we thats going to last . I mean, we cant have situation cant really have a situation where whatever multi billionaire is and sort of decides is allowed and sort of decides on the parameters of what comedy is and isnt. No is acceptable and what isnt. No i dont. Well, i appreciate musk stepping in. I say this all the time. I dont think that we should be dependent on benevolent billion heirs to speak freely. You know, that speak freely. You know, that shouldnt it shouldnt to shouldnt it shouldnt be up to them be making decisions them to be making decisions about we can and about where we can speak and whether speak that should whether we can speak that should be the law. And so be protected by the law. And so i free speech in the i think free speech in the pubuc i think free speech in the Public Square is really threatened when the Public Square online. And we square has moved online. And we need out exactly what need to figure out exactly what how First Amendment is going how our First Amendment is going to protected in places where to be protected in places where most of the majority of most of the vast majority of pubuc most of the vast majority of Public Discourse is taking place. And youre challenging this and youre challenging this at the moment. Jeremy tedesco, could you us a bit more could you tell us a bit more about the challenge and what nature, approaching nature, how youre approaching this . Nature, how youre approaching thiswell, the be is actually well, the be is actually filed whats called a friend of the court brief. Theyre not the court brief. So theyre not a case. Theyre a party in the case. Theyre a third party whos telling the court, think rights court, look, we think our rights are by this case are implicated by this case thats ongoing to thats ongoing and we want to tell how think it tell the court how we think it should in light of the fact should rule in light of the fact that interests too. That we have interests too. Here, case actually here, the case is actually brought by First Amendment brought by a First Amendment professor the states professor here in the states named the and professor here in the states nanplatform the and professor here in the states nanplatform rumble the and professor here in the states nanplatform rumble and the and professor here in the states nanplatform rumble and locals. And the platform rumble and locals. And so right now its on appeal at the second court, Second Circuit court of appeals. And Circuit Court of appeals. And thats just one step below the Us Supreme Court. So, you know, this case may make it all the way to the us court, way to the Us Supreme Court, might get all the way might get sent all the way back down lower court. Well down to the lower court. Well have to see. But, you know, one thing want sure your thing i want to make sure your your and your listeners understand and i know this very know you all know this very well, is that this problem of censorship isnt happening just well, is that this problem of certech1ip isnt happening just well, is that this problem of certech platforms. Ppening just on tech platforms. Its happening happening in the Banking Industries banking and Financial Industries as well. And the same kind of policies, conduct policies, these hateful conduct policies, these hateful conduct policies that platforms and policies that tech platforms and now york is trying to use to now new york is trying to use to censor speech online banks are using people from using to censor people from being able to have access to their accounts or to their Bank Accounts or to payment so this is payment processing. So this is a, you know, corporate problem that we have to solve. But when that we have to solve. But when private Companies Start censoring speech, it has the same if not more Chilling Effect on peoples willingness to engagein on peoples willingness to engage in those protected freedoms than when the government is doing it. And so we need to stop these companies from doing we certainly from doing it. We certainly need to from new york to stop states from new york co opting these private companies from engaging in this kind. Kind of censorship. And course, seth dillon and of course, seth dillon isnt here that if you isnt the risk here that if you have something nebulous have something as nebulous as hateful speech or hateful conduct, then anyone can sort of decide what hate means depending on their particular political preferences . Preferences . Well, it ends up being whoever is holding the powers, the levers of power at the particular moment, whatever is offensive to them, whatever theyre sensitive to, of course, theyre sensitive to, of course, theyre going to rule that thats hate speech. I mean, if its if you just simply say that this is a marginalised group, there are protected group, you cant about them, then you there are protected group, you cantall about them, then you there are protected group, you cantall speech. Them, then you there are protected group, you cantall speech about. Then you there are protected group, you cantall speech about that] you there are protected group, you cantall speech about that group then all speech about that group is now outlawed and its not allowed. This one of the allowed. And this is one of the things most things thats the most sane, insane about whole insane thing about the whole conversation that the conversation to me is that the idea that the people that weve made have made jokes about that have landed are landed us in hot water are marginalised and oppressed because theyre not. These are actually privileged actually the most privileged people culture who have people in our culture who have all of the powers that be behind people in our culture who have all of and powers that be behind people in our culture who have all of and backing hat be behind people in our culture who have all of and backing them. I behind people in our culture who have all of and backing them. And ind people in our culture who have all of and backing them. And so them and backing them. And so they have tremendous privilege in that were in power. They say that were punching when we make these punching down when we make these jokes. Were actually punching up making jokes up because were making jokes about prevailing powers that about the prevailing powers that be holes in the be and poking holes in the popular narrative. But of course, you say, but of course, as you say, they will say that they are the marginalised, of marginalised, even though, of course, activists course, a lot of these activists can people can effectively get people fired, their jobs fired, turfed out of their jobs just whim. Doesnt just on a whim. So it doesnt seem marginalised to me. Seem that marginalised to me. Jeremy can just ask Jeremy Tedesco can i just ask you this, though . Isnt you about this, though . Isnt the First Amendment just speaking , but speaking as an outsider, but isnt amendment isnt the First Amendment secure enough eventually enough to mean that eventually when this goes right up to the top, the supreme court, it top, to the supreme court, it will always be shut down . That really its not really in america its not really in america its not really possible to a really possible to have a law that effectively limits free speech. Well, i would say theres activists on the other side and government and othennise, who are constantly trying to chip away at what you rightly point out is a very strong First Amendment free speech standard. Speech standard. You we have to be and, you know, we have to be vigilant protect vigilant to protect against those do think those things. And i do think that case like this goes to that if a case like this goes to the supreme that we get the Us Supreme Court that we get the Us Supreme Court that we get the ruling. But what the right ruling. But what i think is really important to understand and age understand about the day and age we right now is that we live in right now is that there activists active. They there are activists active. They are they are intentionally trying to bypass first trying to bypass our First Amendment rights, free speech rights going to the private rights by going to the private companies, just like new york is doing getting them to doing here and getting them to censon doing here and getting them to censor. So we have this huge censor. And so we have this huge problem of private censorship in this you want problem of private censorship in thisay you want problem of private censorship in thisay its, you want problem of private censorship in thisay its, you you want problem of private censorship in thisay its, you know, you want problem of private censorship in thisay its, you know, causedit problem of private censorship in thisay its, you know, caused by to say its, you know, caused by activists co opt those activists trying to co opt those companies or theyre just willing themselves, willing to do it themselves, its an enormous problem. Its still an enormous problem. And people are afraid , are and people are afraid, are growing increasingly afraid to express their views online. And theyre afraid about losing their Bank Accounts or their social media accounts simply because people might disagree with these companies. With them at these companies. Thats a healthy, thats not a healthy, free speech we need one. Speech culture, and we need one. Seth dillon. So mean, and seth dillon. So i mean, the bee , its absolutely the babylon bee, its absolutely hilarious. Brilliant hilarious. Its a brilliant site. Course, you depend site. And of course, you depend on social media and the internet for your whole operation. So for your whole operation. So what would you say . I mean, what if this law were to be sustained and satire were to be cut tailed . What do you do at that point . Do you modify your material accordingly . What would your answer be . A lot of that, you know, my writers have told me that they have actually faced situations where they thought about making a joke held back because a joke and held back because they didnt violate one they didnt want to violate one of policies. And so of these policies. And so theyve engaged in some theyve actually engaged in some level self censorship. I level of self censorship. I encourage them not to do that. I encourage them not to do that. I encourage them not to do that. I encourage them to speak freely. If we did end up violating this law and and you know, that law and id and you know, that we some repercussion we had some kind of repercussion for you know, theres for it, you know, theres penalties basically penalties that basically the penalty that would be imposed on us that content be us is that our content would be taken potentially taken down. We could potentially be result of be de platformed as a result of this. Would go way beyond be de platformed as a result of this. Filingould go way beyond be de platformed as a result of this. Filing aild go way beyond be de platformed as a result of this. Filing a brief way beyond be de platformed as a result of this. Filing a brief and beyond be de platformed as a result of this. Filing a brief and actually just filing a brief and actually file lawsuit that case. File a lawsuit at that case. I would imagine. File a lawsuit at that case. I wotbutmagine. File a lawsuit at that case. I wotbutmagine had this before, but youve had this before, havent because when the havent you . Because when the tweet you mentioned you tweet you mentioned earlier, you were told that you must delete the tweet and admit that it was hateful. Is that right . Am i remembering that correctly . Yeah. We had to check a box saying that we admitted that we violated including violated the terms, including the policy , and the hateful conduct policy, and we to check that and we refused to check that box and delete the we were we delete the tweet. We were we were be twitter were willing to be off twitter permanently. Had no idea that permanently. We had no idea that elon was going to come in and buy and restore our buy twitter and restore our account so, it was that account. So, yeah, it was that important to us take important to us that we take a stand there and say , look, stand there and say, look, we are going censor are not going to censor ourselves. You dont have ourselves. You dont have the right us up. We have right to shut us up. We have every right to make this joke. There to this joke. There was no hate to this joke. In the truth. And the in fact, its the truth. And the truth speech. So truth is not hate speech. So we stood firm that. Stood very firm on that. So is that the answer . Just creative have to Just Creative people have to just be they to self censor less, they have to self censor less, be a bit tougher carry be a bit tougher and just carry on they on expressing themselves as they see and yeah, i think so. See fit and yeah, i think so. I mean, i think that people will become emboldened by that approach. The people that will become emboldened by that ap|that h. The people that will become emboldened by that ap|that h. Ththe people that will become emboldened by that ap|that h. Ththe morezople that will become emboldened by that ap|that h. Ththe more thee that will become emboldened by that ap|that h. Ththe more the more do that see, the more the more people censor themselves. People that censor themselves. The they give these the more power they give these tyrants. Youre doing the tyrants him. And then tyrants work for him. And then and then up happening and then what ends up happening is and fewer people is fewer and fewer people will be enough speak out be bold enough to speak out because censorship is the prevailing if enough prevailing thing. But if enough people speak they people do speak out and they actually continue to say the things theyre not supposed to say more people, say, more and more people, i think, emboldened to do think, will be emboldened to do that. Thats the way push that. And thats the way to push back freely. Well back is to speak freely. Well seth dillon and Jeremy Tedesco, thanks much for joining thanks ever so much for joining me today. Me today. So next on free speech nation , im going to be speaking to sean corby, who successfully argued his opposition of Critical Race Theory was a philosophical belief in a legal first. Hes going to be joining me just after the break. See you in a moment radio. Welcome back to free speech nation. In what is believed to be a legal first here in the uk , a legal first here in the uk, a judge has ruled that disagreeing with Critical Race Theory is actually a belief protected by law. Sean corby, an employee of law. Sean corby, an employee of acas , took the organisation to acas, took the organisation to an employment tribunal after he was instructed to delete comments on a yammer that were critical of black lives matter and the theory behind it. Corby argued that a better approach to addressing racism was to follow the ideas of Martin Luther king, who said that people should be judged by the content of their character rather than the colour of judge ruled of their skin. The judge ruled that corbys comments were indeed protected by the equalities as they were equalities act as they were classed as a religion or belief in same way that views in the same way that the views of colleagues found of corbys colleagues who found his offensive were also his remarks offensive were also protected. Joining me now is protected. So joining me now is the man at the centre of this dispute, sean corby. Sean, dispute, sean corby. Sean, thanks ever so much for joining us. A landmark case, as us. This is a landmark case, as we have seen. Could you just tell us, first of all, when you expressed your opposition to Critical Race Theory , what was Critical Race Theory, what was the response that you got at work. Work. Um, well, it wasnt just a case of expressing the opposition. It was it was expressing an alternate narrative as well. Um, so narrative as well. Um, so i posted eight. I was instructed to remove eight posts of article that id shared on the, on yammer, which is an internal, um, like an internet group. And those included a quote by aisha akanbi, whos a commentator , akanbi, whos a commentator, british stylist of nigerian descent and um, an article by ayanna folarin, iman , um, and ayanna folarin, iman, um, and a picture and a link to a bio of Howard Thurman , who was the, urn, Howard Thurman, who was the, urn, somewhat of a mentor to Martin Luther king. I presented these articles and then in some positive comments that i received to them , uh, i received to them, uh, i commented that yes , i believe commented that yes, i believe that the, the way of Martin Luther king was preferable to that of black lives matter, Critical Race Theory and the essence of my posts and the comments and the essence of my philosophical beliefs in relation to race. Rail against any form of segregation and separatism. Um, and separatism. Um, and ethnonationalism. So any kind of seeing everything through a race prism or fixation was told to remove them. And i wasnt really given any reason why for for, substantial amount of time then it transpired that four colleagues um who were in the office in london work in leeds who never met me, didnt know anything about me, apart from perhaps seeing my profile picture at work. Um, and they picture at work. Um, and they basically submitted a complaint which when i was given extracts of it, to read, it was pretty unhip. And andrew and accused me unhip. And andrew and accused me of being a racist, possibly with far right sympathy or maybe even an activist. They requested bodyguard words from acas, which i expected if wanted an acas to pay i expected if wanted an acas to pay for, and it was absolutely, um, absolutely shamed me and as i say, it was an unhinged personal, unfounded, ludicrous attack. And acas allowed that to attack. And acas allowed that to go fonnard to a formal grievance. I think people watching will be utterly baffled by the idea that youre quoting all these black thinkers on the subject of race from an anti racist position. You know youre against racism and youre making that explicit. Youre quoting Martin Luther king, and somehow people think this makes you a racist. I people think this makes you a racist. I mean, people think this makes you a racist. I mean, what on earth is racist. I mean, what on earth is going on . Yeah, yeah. Going on . Yeah, yeah. Its ludicrous. And, um, but its ludicrous. And, um, but it would be laughable. I mean, a it would be laughable. I mean, a dear friend of mine, one of my closest friends, he described it as being almost a cosmic joke that i, of all people, if you were to know my background , my were to know my background, my life, who i am as a person, i live in relation to race, its just the most absurd accusation. But it just goes to show that it, um, that people that hold certain, certain political beliefs and ideological beliefs and have been , um, you know , and have been, um, you know, held by this psychological contagion thats going around in terms of the kind of race thinking and woke whatever, whatever we call it, um, just how, how potentially vicious they can be to to, what theyve done to someone like, yeah , well indeed. I mean in Robin Diangelos book, white fragility she makes and shes a white woman, by the way, she makes the point that to invoke Martin Luther kings ideal of colour blindness is a form of white supremacy. And all form of white supremacy. And all of , of course, is of this, of course, is absolutely absurd. But are you absolutely absurd. But are you concerned that , given your concerned that, given your experience, that it has become almost impossible in society to have sensible adult discussions about these very sensitive topics . Topics . Yeah. And of real serious concern to me is that the organisation that i work for, acas, is a government department. It does some really valuable work and it has an important function , but its got important function, but its got a very influential role. And one a very influential role. And one of the complaints, its um , is of the complaints, its um, is actually quite senior in the uk union. Um is a prominent, self styled activist, ethnocentric activist who appeared on the front page of the morning star last year talking about her brand of racialized politics. Um, claire aims to be sought after by the likes of the guardian, etcetera, but her views on race and its formed organisations with with some key figures that hold what you might call hard left and racialized thinking. And racialized thinking. And clearly, um , had a real clearly, um, had a real influence on the organisation. Influence on the organisation. It is meant to be impartial, but it seems to either be naive regarding these these kind of views , ignorant to mine , despite views, ignorant to mine, despite efforts before all this started , um, i wrote to the chief executive , to the race network, executive, to the race network, to the, the urn, diversity and Inclusion Team and shared different ideas and writings by people like chloe valdary, whos got a Diversity Training Program thatis got a Diversity Training Program that is non crt based, based in rooted in Martin Luther kings teaching is not about shaming people , doesnt believe that people, doesnt believe that white people are born with the original sin of racism recognised as racial bigotry can exist is possible to exist in all people and doesnt treat racial groups as a homogeneous blob. That theyre all the same. You know, the complexity and all groups of people and the leadership , Senior Leadership at leadership, Senior Leadership at acas that are making decisions and looking at influencing workplace practise and policy in relation to race are either naive or blocking any other perspective than than than the one. One. One. Yeah, its very troubling , yeah, its very troubling, isnt it . When you have a theory like Critical Race Theory, which is so divisive and actually in my view, exacerbates racial tensions and yet youre coming from a position of social liberalism, the ideas that were embodied by all the great civil rights luminaries of the past. And youre the one who is problematised, as they put it, and attacked so when this happened at work now, i mean, youve its now been established that that your belief is protected by law. Its an odd that that should even have to be established. But this should help, shouldnt it . Sean this should us to have these should help us to have these conversations. That that should help us to have these con are sations. That that should help us to have these con are reassured that that should help us to have these con are reassured that at that should help us to have these con are reassured that the that should help us to have these con are reassured that the law hat should help us to have these con are reassured that the law ist we are reassured that the law is on. On your side. I hope so. I mean, i had to i was very intensely cross examined over three days, um, and on the first day it was in relation to me having to prove that my beliefs are a philosophical belief and that i just wasnt expressing, um , just wasnt expressing, um, views and opinions. So i had to undergo the grandeur test, which as im sure youll be aware, is, is pretty stringent and the fifth aspect of that which acas contested before the hearing, but then decided on the morning of the hearing to be neutral on it. Um asserted that my beliefs my ideas , the views that my ideas, the views that i express that are manifestation of my philosophical belief were not worthy of a democratic society. So something akin to , society. So something akin to, for example, which again was so shocking and absurd. So i had to explain my beliefs and my intellectual understanding and academic understand in relation to race of being have come about and are rooted in my own life experience. Um, the, the experience. Um, the, the complainants said that id dismissed their lived experience as this term that people seem to use in certain ways now about lived experience that only certain groups of people can understand certain topics and anybody outside that group can never understand and shouldnt even talk it. Um but when even talk about it. Um but when it was disclosed after speaking with the judge that my, my upbringing was one where i was immersed in, um, in culture of black people, um, my family, my, my extended family, um, of jamaican descent, my children, my wife is black, my two sons are mixed race. Theyre black. Um ive been a professional musician many years touring with greg. Um, jamaican artist Gregory Isaacs and all sorts of people , the jazz musician. Ive people, the jazz musician. Ive spent my life studying that music and the historical cultural context , music and the historical cultural context, and ive lived my life with friendships with with people from many different backgrounds , sides. So the fact backgrounds, sides. So the fact that i had to prove myself that i wasnt and im not a racist because ive quoted Martin Luther king and expressed , um, luther king and expressed, um, my philosophical beliefs in that way. Um pretty distressing. Underi way. Um pretty distressing. Under i imagine. Thats very upsetting. But thats very upsetting. But im glad that the outcome has gone the right way. Sean corby , gone the right way. Sean corby, thank you so much for joining gone the right way. Sean corby, thank you so much forjoining me. And next on free speech nation, well take a look at whats been causing a stir onune whats been causing a stir online this week. And your unfiltered dilemmas. Dont go anywhere welcome back to free speech nation. So its time for social sensations. Thats the part of the show where we look at whats been going viral. This week on social media. Theres been quite been going viral. This week on sociatotedia. Theres been quite been going viral. This week on socia to choose heres been quite been going viral. This week on socia to choose from. Been quite been going viral. This week on sociato choose from. Butn quite been going viral. This week on socia to choose from. But first te a lot to choose from. But first up, we got this video. Its a very odd relationship , to be quite frank. And i dont go on any of their shows because to frank , from my to be frank, from my perspective, if youre a member of parliament, day of parliament, you have a day job to do. That was conservative mp Caroline Nokes calling for gb news shut down town and news to be shut down town and lying about appearing on the channel as the Community Note on twitter later revealed. She says twitter later revealed. She says she goes on it. Shes been she never goes on it. Shes been on, think times anyway. On, i think nine times anyway. But what i find quite chilling about that, i mean, thats an elected mp who was offended something offended by something that was said on the channel. So says, lets shut the channel when elected mp channel down when an elected mp says should down a news says we should shut down a news channel, feels a little channel, it feels a little soviet. Oh a little bit oppressive maybe. Yeah. And particularly when theyre appearing on on a show saying that gb news doesnt have any balance and they all agree and say that gb news should be shut down. I mean, that is not a balanced approach. They should balanced approach. They should have somebody else on there to say, hey, no, it shouldnt be shut down. Why they one why couldnt they have one person against person who is against authoritarian on the panel . Authoritarian ism on the panel . Would have been amazing. That would been great. That would have been great. Any that, jojo . Any thoughts on that, jojo . Think it is that its i just think it is that its hypocrisy. Back to sort hypocrisy. It comes back to sort of what people of saying what you think people want hear whilst not actually want to hear whilst not actually believing it. And want to hear whilst not actually believing it. And oh, want to hear whilst not actually believing it. And oh, really . Believing it. And oh, really . You dont think shes being sincere . No, honestly. And i think people double people have such double standards people standards and i think people are, you know, put fonnard their own and its like, oh, own agenda and its like, oh, what have been asked to what have i been asked to do today . Much i getting today . How much am i getting paid . To say, paid . Do you want me to say, what now . Yeah, its just its just response as just such an extreme response as well, just such an extreme response as welanyway , lets go on to this anyway, lets go on to this next video. Now. Now. Now. How do you feel about how it all ended then with regard to the pandemic . I was managing a very difficult situation in a professional sense , thought id professional sense, thought id done a pretty good job. And then and then it fell apart. Apart. The rules that youve established as a country to follow, you think , you know follow, you think, you know what, im above this. Im bigger than the system. Than the system. Yeah. I didnt think that im talking. I was very careful not to break any of the laws. But what i didnt think was that there was still guidance that wasnt legally binding by that point. Point. Okay, so thats matt hancock there being questioned on the channel 4 show. Dont come to me. Dont come to me. Its a its celebrity sas is quite funny to see matt hancock being interrogated by quite scary men. Its on the new version of the expendables. Yeah , pretty. But he looks he yeah, pretty. But he looks he looks so weak there. Can you imagine . Dominic raab taking that . Dominic raab would have like punched into the guys chest and ripped his heart out. Yeah. Hes pretty tough. Yeah. Yeah hes pretty tough. Wouldnt go on that show. Id be terrified. I would. Would id be terrified. I would. Wotabsolutely. It. I absolutely. Oh, i love it. I honestly. But its that thing with matt hancock. I mean hes just Somebody Just the epitome of somebody that made the rules, broke the rules . Exactly. Exactly. And they all were so , i mean, and they all were so, i mean, i get bored if people are making the rules and they break the rules. Not listening. Rules. Im not listening. So its being its quite good to see him being taken to task for 100 absolute lutely. All right. Lutely. All right. Well, look, next as we saw in our news bulletin earlier , have our news bulletin earlier, have these available at the conservative shop outside for just £16, 99. Okay. So thats just £16, 99. Okay. So thats the chair of the conservative party, greg hands showing off flip flops with Keir Starmers face on them. The tory party conference. That was earlier today. Its quite expensive. Six 6999 for flip flops. They need a lot of money though. They do. Is that one way to raise it . Its a good joke, isnt it . Oh, its great how they made it. Literal people. Well, people it. Literal people. Well, people wouldnt the joke if they wouldnt get the joke if they didnt put it on a on an actual flip flop. Yeah , its impressive, isnt yeah, its impressive, isnt it . When , you know, it . Its good when, you know, the politicians engage in comedy i yeah. No, that always really works out really well for them. Well, i mean. I mean, yeah, i well, i mean. I mean, yeah, i mean, to be fair, were comedians were dabbling in comedians and were dabbling in politics, sometimes politics, so that sometimes that is it does really is actually how it does really become hard as a comedian when the are making it so the politicians are making it so hard to comedy because hard to make comedy because theyre ridiculously theyre so ridiculously hilarious that funnier than us. Yeah, exactly. That is the problem. Finally, problem. Okay. And finally, weve this. One thats the weve got this. One thats the reason. Reason. Three, 2 1, go. Vode. Three, 2 1, go. Vode. Oh oh, oh. Okay. So if youre a bit baffled by that, i would explain you know, weve had weve got these gender reveal parties that was a bathroom reveal party and these people have got a new bathroom and theyre showing it off. And people clearly are approving. Approving. Thats brilliant. Thats brilliant. I mean , that is brilliant. It i mean, that is brilliant. It is odd , isnt it . Is odd, isnt it . So this is what i do love about the internet, because some of the nonsense that comes on it and because, you know, we are talking quite honestly about sort of laws changing and, you know, things about know, theres things about parents rights and parents not being allowed to make decisions for about gender for their children about gender and this kind of stuff. And and all this kind of stuff. And the internet always wins. The internet just always wins. There was a it does the internet wins. I mean, its for great and cats, but it wins with with a little boy about ten was offered two oreos and £10,000 and he had to choose. And the thing was to choose. And the thing was never let children decide because he picked the oreos. Of because he picked the oreos. Of course he did. Of course he did. And any thoughts on that one, liam . A bathroom reveal party . A bathroom reveal party . Well, a bathroom is actually the one room that can have a gender actually , thats true. Gender actually, thats true. I grew up in a house with a gender neutral toilet. I was very progressive, very progressive , progressive, very progressive, very progressive. Mum and dad used the same toilet. Weve got time, i think, for just one unfiltered dilemma. The dilemmas come in from Claire Claire boyfriend talks claire says, my boyfriend talks to bogeys eannax to me about his bogeys eannax and poo poos. How old are you, claire . Weve just had a child together. Is it too late to dump him . Well, i mean, no. Him . Well, i mean, no. Dump him. Just get ready. There we go. Jojos just answered that. Yeah. Got time for yeah. Have we got time for another this one from another one . This one comes from alan. Alan after many years alan. Alan says after many years of just of marriage, ive only just realised wife cup of realised my wife makes a cup of tea the milk in the tea by putting the milk in the mug first. Do i tell her that this is against the of this is against the law of nature . Want to know . Jojo, do you want to know . Theres really good theres an actual really good historical and historical point about that and it to poverty, it comes down to poverty, really. So its in 20s china teacups. If you have really good china, you put your tea in, then the milk in aftennards. But if the milk in aftennards. But if you were really poor, you had cheap china, so you had to put the milk in first so that the china didnt break. I didnt this was i didnt know this was a Socio Economic point we Socio Economic point that we were making yeah just a were making there. Yeah just a round of applause for obscure knowledge for jojo there. Its true though. Its true though. Thanks for joining its true though. Thanks forjoining us its true though. Thanks for joining us for free speech nation this was the week when the navy became gender fluid. Bambi became a little less traumatic, and Caroline Nokes became a lot more authoritarian. Thank you to my panel authoritarian. Thank you to my panel, leo kearse and jojo sutherland , and of course, to my sutherland, and of course, to my wonderful Rachel Rooney, wonderful guests, Rachel Rooney, charlie aster, david Charlie Bentley, aster, David Oldroyd bolt, seth dillon, Jeremy Tedesco and sean corby, and of course, my wonderful studio audience. And by the way, if you want to join us live in the studio and be part of the audience, can do audience, you can easily do that. To sro that. Just go to w sro audiences. Com. That address is right there on the screen and come along. Weve got food, weve got drink, the whole shebang. Do stay tuned for the shebang. Do stay tuned for the brilliant mark dolan tonight. That up next. And that is coming up next. And dont headliners dont forget headliners is on every night at 11 pm. Thats the late night paper preview show where comedians you show where comedians take you through the next days top news stories. Thanks ever so much for stories. Thanks ever so much for watching. Free speech nation. I will see you next week. Oo watching. Free speech nation. I will see you next week. 00 oo 00 will see you next week. 00 oo 00 oo. 00. Hey oo. Hello there. Hey 00. Hello there. Hey 00. Hello there. Im Greg Dewhurst. Hey 00. Hello there. Im Greg Dewhurst. And im Greg Dewhurst. And welcome to your latest news, weather forecast. It stays mixed over the next few days, well see some rain at times, but there will be some drier and brighter intervals. Temperatures generally on the warm side for the time of year. At the moment, low pressure generally dominates the weather but this the weather pattern, but this area of High Pressure starts to move in towards middle of move in towards the middle of the across the south, the week across the south, across south this evening, across the south this evening, though, quite cloudy picture , though, quite cloudy picture, outbreaks patchy rain at outbreaks of patchy rain at times, too. That continues times, too. And that continues overnight. Some low cloud mist overnight. Some low cloud mist and developing here further and murk developing here further north, generally drier , some north, generally drier, some clear spells for Northern Ireland, scotland, turning clear spells for northern irelaniacross. And, turning clear spells for northern irelaniacross. And highlands1g clear spells for northern irelaniacross. And highlands with windy across the highlands with showers here and temperatures for most generally staying in double figures. A warm start to double figures. A warm start to the day across southern counties of and wales. Quite of england and wales. Quite cloudy here. There with patchy rain drizzle and then rain and drizzle and then through the well cloud through the day well see cloud amounts across england amounts increase across england and some heavy rain and wales. Some heavy rain developing bright for developing and bright skies for Northern Ireland and scotland through but still some through the day. But still some scattered showers windy scattered showers staying windy across north west of across the north west of scotland. Temperatures high teens to 20s 22 or 23. Teens to low 20s 22 or 23. Possible towards the far south east where we see any sunshine into tuesday. Weve got early rain clearing south eastwards and then its a bright day with sunny spells and scattered showers and showers moving in quite quickly across the northern half the uk on the northern half of the uk on that westerly breeze. Best that brisk westerly breeze. Best of the across southern of the sunshine across southern areas. Temperatures little areas. Temperatures a little lower, but staying around average the next few days average over the next few days before increasing further towards weekend. You its 9 00 on television, on radio and online in the United Kingdom and across the world. This is mark dolan tonight. In my big opinion, the tories are terrible. But on what planet are terrible. But on what planet are labour the answer . My mark meets guest is Boris Johnsons biographer , sir anthony seldon. Biographer, sir anthony seldon. Should boris still be in charge . And how will history remember him as a Prime Minister in the big story as they prepare for their last annual conference before the next election . Do the before the next election . Do the tories momentum . Ill be tories have momentum . Ill be asking top telegraph columnist tim stanley, live from. Tim stanley, live from. Manchester it might take a ten with the cost of insuring them now through the roof. The case for electric cars is running out of charge. Are they a con . You of charge. Are they a con . You tell me. Ill be tackling that topic at 10 00. And let me give you some developing news in regards to this channel. The former home secretary, priti patel , has just given her patel, has just given her backing to gb news. We know its been a tumultuous week. Weve had column inches. Weve been in had column inches. Weve been in the papers. Weve obviously been on telly and radio. Everyones been talking about us, as you know , ive said im on record as know, ive said im on record as pointing out that we will never be down wont shut be shut down and we wont shut up. Well, we now