Special task force to crack down on the crooked lawyers aiding and abetting false asylum claims, undermining the rule of law. Could this be the solution to the perennial woes of the lefty lawyers . Plus commercial success that is the sit down with sitwell today. State of the with sitwell today. State of the nafions with sitwell today. State of the nations culture correspondent is particularly disgruntled by the new alcohol duty regime. He claims this is just another attack on the great life enhancing body fizzing , enhancing body fizzing, energising, laughing gear. But his alcohol preserver here at the said nation, we advocate for drinking responsibly and no responsibly is not a brand of scrumpy or somerset cider state of the nation starts now. Of the nation starts now. Indeed holding the state of the nafion indeed holding the state of the nation in from somerset, flabellum tonight is the telegraph chief restaurant cricket william sitwell, star of the sit down with sitwell. But as always , i want to hear from as always, i want to hear from you. Its the most important part of the programme. Email me. Mail at gbnews. Com. Now its time for the news of the day with polly middlehurst. It. With polly middlehurst. It. Jacob. Thank you and good evening to you. Well, we begin this gb news bulletin with some breaking news coming to us from Northern Ireland in the last 15 minutes or so. Its understood ad a major data breach within the Police Service of Northern Ireland has released the personal details of every serving Police Officer and civilian staff member. These details just coming to us as the story develops. But details just coming to us as the story develops. But our details just coming to us as the story develops. But our reporter story develops. But our reporter Dougie Beattie is in Northern Ireland and doing his to best get across it for us. Dougie what do you know . What do you know . Well, i have seen this particular document. Its now particular document. Its now well out in the public and the psni are trying to advise their officers how to deal with this. Theyve been told, dont answer any emails that you you dont realise or recognise and very much dont just up your up your security and try and keep things level because as much as there is a lot of information in this document , it doesnt give home document, it doesnt give home addresses or dates of birth or anything. Its more the constables numbers. And of course what rank they are. And it is really their names thats there now that is dangerous enoughin there now that is dangerous enough in Northern Ireland, and no doubt there will be a senior investigation on that. In fact, an acc has already been appointed to get to the bottom of whats going on and how that Security Breach took place. Security breach took place. So just to be clear then , the so just to be clear then, the telephone numbers, the mobile telephone numbers, the mobile telephone numbers, the mobile telephone numbers of telephone numbers in terms of Contact Details of serving officers within the psni. No, officers within the psni. No, there seems to be a lot of personal personal numbers as in there. But badge numbers there there were their ranks are et cetera. There doesnt seem there is email addresses on on some of the documents. But most of this is to do with their work and where they are stationed, etcetera. It doesnt actually give their personal details of their home addresses. It isnt their home addresses. It isnt as bad as it. It could be. But thats not saying that this is a major, major Security Breach by the psni and the very fact that an acc is taking control of this team that is looking into this is saying how seriously they take it. Its not as bad as it could be, but it is a major, major breach for security inside the psni. So just to be clear then, dougie, this does not involve mobile phone numbers. Just tell us who then it affects. Us who then it affects. Well , i us who then it affects. Well, i have looked at this, polly, very quickly. You can imagine ive only got the document in the last few minutes, so i have skimmed through it and had a look. It does affect every single Police Officer and it does affect those civilians that also work for the psni of Northern Ireland. Dougie beattie thanks very much for that update. Well come back to you for more later on this evening. Well, in other news today, the home secretary says lawyers gain the says lawyers who gain the british asylum system by lying are a stain on the legal profession. Suella bravermans comments come as she chaired a meeting of the governments new task force and regulators aimed at cracking down on rogue immigration lawyers. A new task force announced by the government will bring together regulatory bodies , law regulatory bodies, Law Enforcement and other Government Departments to root out so called dodgy law firms. And so called dodgy law firms. And the elections watchdog was targeted by a cyber attack, resulting in what it calls hostile actors gaining access to the publics information. The attackers were able to access copies of the electoral register with the names and addresses of anyone registered to vote between 2014 and 2022. They first accessed the Commission Systems in august 2021. Chief executive sean mcnally has apologised to the public. Now in other news today, figures revealed by scottish labour show nicola sturgeons government spent tens of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money for vip airport upgrades. Between september 2019 and august 20th, 22, more than £14 million worth of taxpayers cash was spent on credit Card Transactions by scottish civil servants, and that included almost £10,000 on vip airport upgrades and over £40,000 at a five star hotel. While the Scottish Government spokesperson says the cards arent for personal expenditure. Are you . With gb news across. Are you . With gb news across the uk on your tv, in your car, on Digital Radio and on your Smart Speaker now by saying play gb news. This is britains news. Channel it seems to sand is shifting on the net zero agenda. First it was the uxbridge by election against the odds, the conservatives retained the seat largely because of the backlash against the labour mayor sadiq khans ulez regime. Then what followed was robust rhetoric from the government at the Prime Minister has ordered a review of low traffic neighbourhoods , promising to neighbourhoods, promising to come down firmly on the side of the motorist. He told us that net zero needed to be pursued in a proportionate and pragmatic way. Even tony blair weighed in, stating that the public must be spared the exorbitant costs of the agenda. Michael gove gave a flicker, a glimmer of hope on the question of banning boilers in New Buildings by 2025, although later the government restated its intention to keep this policy. No nonetheless, more than 100 north sea gas and oil licences are being issued by the government. As it happens , the government. As it happens, one that i started as business secretary which is good news because it will help maintain our Energy Independence once the tories clear heard the signal from uxbridge. As for that from uxbridge. As for that matter, did labour and a times poll has made this clearer. Still, yougov revealed today that support for the 2030 new petrol and diesel ban has slumped by a third in the run up to the great fandango of glasgows cop, 26. Support was a majority of the population at 51. But now only just over a third, 36 of voters back the ban. And who could pretend to be surprised . The majority of the uk are motorists and they cant afford a tesla. However, good teslas may be so its clear that the issue of net zero will be a central one at the next election and that includes boilers. I mentioned already the foolish plans to ban boilers in all new properties in 2025, but another ban, a lesser known ban, is on course to hit britons who live off the grid in the next three years and use oil boilers. About years and use oil boilers. About 1. 7 million homes in the uk have never been connected to the gas grid. They may be too remote or its not economic to link them up, which means they primarily use oil boilers instead of gas. Now these boilers are less carbon efficient , which is why carbon efficient, which is why the government is forcing anyone who lives off the gas grid who needs to replace their boiler to buy a heat pump. The former environment secretary, George Eustice, is leading the latest tory spout of recalcitrance opposing this forthcoming ban, dubbing it the ulez for rural communities. And i should say he communities. And i should say he has my full support. The policy will particularly affect the regions of the united kingdom. Regions of the united kingdom. Most People Living in Northern Ireland are not on the gas grid and thats true for much of wales and scotland too. The more remote you are and very often the poorer you are, the less likely youll be connected. The likely youll be connected. The average cost of a heat pump somewhere between 12 to £15,000, somewhere between 12 to £15,000, some are even more. The average cost of a boiler is 1500 to £5000. But there are problems with heat pumps. £5000. But there are problems with heat pumps. They can either with heat pumps. They can either be air sourced or ground sourced. But in spite of government grants of 5 or £6000 towards heat pumps , uptake is towards heat pumps, uptake is only estimated to be about 60,000in 2022, which is pretty disappointing considering the plan was to have 600,000 installations a year by 2028. But why is this . Its not just the cost , its the practicality. The cost, its the practicality. An air source heat pump needs about ten square feet of outdoor space, not great if you live in a flat and ground source, heat pumps take even more space and involve digging trenches in your garden. They then have lower temperatures than boilers, so people have to upgrade their radiators, which leads to further cost some people might think we should do what italy did, but they had a system of offering 110 grants for heat pumps, in effect, paying for peoples heat pumps and then paying peoples heat pumps and then paying more on top of it, too. Unfortunately if you pay more than the cost, it will create fraud. It did. And the policy was abandoned. Ultimately, as was abandoned. Ultimately, as with the 2030, new petrol and diesel ban and other net zero policies, the burden of the cost falls on you and we will never achieve anything by making ourselves cold and poor. As you know. I want to know your thoughts. Dont forget to let me know what you think. Mail blog at gbnews. Com but im delighted now to be joined by regular friend of the program , donnacha friend of the program, donnacha mccarthy, director of the climate media coalition. Donnacha thank you for coming in. 1. 7 Million People in rural areas , often less well off, are areas, often less well off, are facing the prospect of much higher bills if they need to replace their boiler. Is that really fair . Really fair . Well, youre absolutely right , jacob, that over the last ten years the tories have made it more expensive for people to convert from oil to renewable energy. You abolish the energy. You abolish the renewable heat incentive for rural people and you destroyed the Home Insulation Programme to reduce your rural homes , bills reduce your rural homes, bills and you abolish support for rural solar and you imposed a green tax on electricity rather than fossil fuels , making it than fossil fuels, making it more difficult for rural dwellers to do the do the right thing. But your point is thing. But your point is correct. We ground source heat pumps are expensive live. So what we need to do for poorer people to ensure that the grants cover the cost. And if we remove the green tax, it makes it cheaper to use electricity. And if we restored the Insulation Programme that you guys destroyed , their bills would be destroyed, their bills would be lower, not higher. Well well, lower, not higher. Well well, the point you make there though is that you should merely transfer the cost from one set of taxpayers to another. Its still more expensive and as you know, taxation falls throughout the system. It falls on people with low incomes as well those with high incomes. On people with low incomes as we youre|ose with high incomes. On people with low incomes as we youre not with high incomes. On people with low incomes as we youre not gettingjh incomes. On people with low incomes as we youre not getting rid ncomes. On people with low incomes as we youre not getting rid of mes. On people with low incomes as we youre not getting rid of the s. So youre not getting rid of the cost, youre just moving around. Who pays for it . So it seems to me question still arises is me the question still arises is it to make the country at it fair to make the country at large colder and poorer . No ive actually outlined very clearly how we make sure that the rural poor are warmer and lower bills i one two ways of funding it. One two ways of funding it. One would be to because youre saying its paid for by the government. You ask me, lets lets fund it. But the government doesnt have any money. £20 billion. Let me finish. You guys are proposing £20 billion of a tax bond to shell to bury their pollution. That 20 billion would pay for the installation of air source heat pumps and insulation for every single rural household. So we would cut real peoples costs and actually not subsidise the oil and International Oil industry. Industry. We dont subsidise the oil industry. There are no subsidies to them. They are one of the highest paying tax parts of the economy. They face a windfall economy. They face a windfall tax much though i thought that was a bad idea. Idea. Theres a huge tax on petrol. There is a an extra Corporation Tax on Oil Companies. Theyre not subsidies and they are very high tax payers. Payers. So i said, i said the government announced last week a £20 billion subsidy for fossil fuel pollute ocean storage. Fuel pollute ocean storage. That 20 billion, thats for not fossil 20 billion would be used. Thats not for fossil fuel companies. Thats for what you want. Want. No, thats the thats the what you want to do with Carbon Dioxide out of the atmosphere. Dioxide out of the atmosphere. No, its not to say that if you if you want to take Carbon Dioxide out of the atmosphere, this is a means of paying to take Carbon Dioxide out of the atmosphere. Its not a subsidy for Oil Companies at all. Its simply a decision that to use Carbon Capture and storage may mean we get to net zero more easily. But if youre less worried about this target for net zero and youre more concerned about the costs, you wouldnt spend that 20 billion. So its your 20 billion, not mine. Really no. Im saying what you do is you invest 20 billion where its reduced resources, fossil fuel usage and reduces bills for people at home. And what i find extraordinary this week with the news from around the planet, weve actually exceeded the temperatures higher than 125,000 years. Your betrayal of Margaret Thatchers legacy , Margaret Thatchers legacy, Margaret Thatchers legacy, Margaret Thatcher will be turning in her grave at what you and sunak have donein grave at what you and sunak have done in declaring war on every single aspect of climate action. Margaret thatcher in amazing speech in 1989 to the un, stated very clearly , if we didnt start very clearly, if we didnt start cutting radically Carbon Pollution temperatures would exceed 100,000. Record her for her prophecy has come to fruition. And as a scientist we should be listening to her and implement policies that reduce rural bills and actually reduce fossil fuel use for rulers. And we can do that by insulating. We have investing in solar schemes for poorer people. By for poorer people. By but as you know, we have cut and weve cut dramatically in this country. Were second in the world only after denmark , the world only after denmark, but with china and india continuing to pump more, our continuing to pump out more, our effort makes remarkably little difference. Difference. Well, weve had this discussion before where weve actually pointed out that britain is one of the largest emitters of International Oil finance and secondly, has finance and secondly, china has the Worlds LargestSolar Industry the Worlds Largest industry and the Worlds Largest onshore on the other onshore wind. We on the other hand, are imposing £180 bill on rural rural electricity payers by banning onshore wind the cheapest form of energy that the only country in the world has done. It im on your side, jacob. Lets reduce costs. Thank you, monica. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Were john lydon. Were john lydon. Were john lydon. Were were going to have to move on. But there is one thing i agree with you. I would certainly take the green levies off electricity, but i wouldnt then on gas. Thank you then put them on gas. Thank you as forget to let as always. Dont forget to let me what you think. Male me know what you think. Male margaret cbnnews. Com coming up, do bacon shaped mung do you enjoy bacon shaped mung bean protein . Do male mog to tell me what mung bean protein is . And plus, there a war on is . And plus, is there a war on booze. Welcome back. Im still Jacob Rees Mogg and you very kindly beenin rees mogg and you very kindly been in touch with your thoughts. Rogen been in touch with your thoughts. Roger. Carbon dioxide is the anchor of the food chain , not an anchor of the food chain, not an atmospheric thermostat. Atmospheric thermostat. Moreover, the element carbon is not synonymous with Carbon Dioxide or indeed any other compound of carbon. To conflate the two is disingenuous. Scientifically illiterate gobble de net zero is net a nonsense . Well thank you for your clear view , roger. And dave says, dear view, roger. And dave says, dear jacob, as an oil engineer , i can jacob, as an oil engineer, i can tell you that Oil Fired Boilers are more efficient than their gas counterparts and can also be adapted to use vegetable or rapeseed oil heat pumps will simply not be suitable for many rural homes, and they have issues regarding hot water temperature and heating ability in cold weather. And thats in very cold weather. And thats very important because its part of what George Eustice was talking about, that you can adapt these boilers to use as vegetable oils instead and much more cheaply than than heat pumps. And william, youve got an oil boiler. Do you want to get rid of yours and put in a heat pump . Its brand new and its broken down. So my wifes watching. Shes just furious watching. Shes just furious because theres not very much hot water. Well, that that unfortunately, is the problem with heat pumps as well. Anyway , for the First Edition anyway, for the First Edition in sit down with sitwell in somerset, were getting the ss in there. Well be discussing a topic close to williams heart. He knows all about this, has a run in occasionally on this subject veganism and some concerning perhaps, but not necessarily surprising news for the vegan community. The Vegan Meat Company beyond meat has said its sales have collapsed by nearly a third in the Second Quarter of the year as its customers looking for customers are looking for cheaper alternatives rather than rethinking recipes beyond rethinking their recipes beyond meat directing blame meat is firmly directing blame to the cost of living crisis. Yet why would vegans want to pretend that theyre eating meat . This has always puzzled me, william. I can understand why people may have moral why people may have a moral objection even to i dont, objection even to meat. I dont, but understand why. But if you but i understand why. But if you do , why do you want to pretend do, why do you want to pretend that your tofu is a lamb cutlet . Well, 7 well, i . Well, i think its partly because people dont want to feel that theyre totally isolated. I mean, if you go to a restaurant, if theres, lets say, a fake lamb chop or some fake chicken, then perhaps you can feel part of that. That group by ordering sort of fake group by ordering a sort of fake version of that food. But i actually think that, you know, the good Old Fashioned natural vegan who, as you say, is someone who gives up meat, dairy , animal related products for ethical reasons , wants to be a ethical reasons, wants to be a natural eater. And thats about natural eater. And thats about good, sustainable , locally good, sustainable, locally produced food, cultivated plants, foraged food, etcetera. Plants, foraged food, etcetera. The and i think its more the kind of urban, politicised vegan who is keen on badging themselves vegan. And thats the themselves vegan. And thats the sort of person whos buying beyond meat, the sort of person whos buying fake meat produced by a 3d printing machine in israel that is so far away from you know, the visceral, spiritual emotion , things that spiritual emotion, things that we love when we eat food. So it essentially becomes a fashion statement about saying who and what you are rather than being something that is driven by your internal moral compass. Its very much a fashion statement. Now, obviously, i wouldnt i cant speak for any vegan, but i think theres a lot of people who do plough that furrow and also make what i think are slightly dodgy claims about the climate as well as it being a politicised sort of, you know, moral issue. And obviously moral issue. And obviously i have some issues with that and i think that, you know, we should try and eat food thats naturally produced and, you know , i saw something on twitter. I remember last year and it had a recipe for a for a steak meat and it had a recipe for one of these fake burgers, fake meats, which has god knows how many different ingredients in them. And im absolutely convinced different ingredients in them. And stuff|bsolutely convinced different ingredients in them. And stuff is olutely convinced different ingredients in them. And stuff is not ely convinced different ingredients in them. And stuff is not ely ccfornced different ingredients in them. And stuff is not ely ccfor you. This stuff is not good for you. It is the it is the worst end of ultra processed food, which is from a sensible, healthy point of view, about as far away as you want to be from from being, you want to be from from being, you know, a sensible eater message. Well, in the country is leading food writers is that you should eat natural food. And if youre youre eat youre if youre vegan eat things havent been things that havent been processed have processed that you may have known locally or known are grown locally or indeed grown yourself, indeed even grown yourself, likewise eat meat that is produced and reared locally. Totally. I mean , if youre lucky i mean, if youre lucky enough, you know, its easier if you a rural area because you live in a rural area because you live in a rural area because you can support local producers, but know, more and but you know, there are more and more producers , food fairs more local producers, food fairs and independent farmers markets appearing in urban areas. If you really think about your food and question your butcher, you can find very good local produce. Find very good local produce. And i think that, you know, the vegan argument should follow that same sensible point of view. Theres no help with the next story because in other nutrition news, could it be that if youre obese, its not entirely your fault . The has found that fault . The study has found that obese overweight peoples obese and overweight peoples brains different brains have a different appetite. Control centre to those to people those belonging to people of lower weight. Studies lower weight. Previous studies found that the hypothalamus region brain plays an region of the brain plays an Important Role in telling our brains hungry or brains whether we are hungry or full. Well, now it appears that if you have a higher bmi , your if you have a higher bmi, your hypothalamus will be significantly larger. So it may not be your fault. Theres also the view of an excellent book i read by dr. Andrew jenkinson called why we eat too much. Called why we eat too much. William its quite easy to be judgemental of people who are overweight and to say its all their own fault, but there does seem to be an increasing amount of evidence that it a genetic of evidence that it is a genetic or part of your brain structure. I think part of the problem is weve come so far culturally and weve moved so far away from the idea of eating when you need to, eating when youre hungry. And there have been so many sort of diet fads. I remember particularly in the late 90s, working in offices where so many people grazed day when that people grazed all day when that was the idea. Never actually get hungry you wont hungry because then you wont overeat most important overeat. The most important thing actually is fasting, intermittent is very intermittent fasting is very good. Allow the body to get hungry. Remember speaking to hungry. I remember speaking to the great baker , Richard Burton the great baker, Richard Burton in bath, who said the noise of breaking some crunchy bread actually gets the saliva going. And thats part of digestion. So firstly, i think weve come culturally so far from the actual reason for eating, which is to feed hunger. Actual reason for eating, which is to feed hunger. And so much is to feed hunger. And so much of food is, is theatre entertainment, hobby ing and so on that thats one of the reasons why i think weve Mental Health problems have also grown. You know, on the back of it, i think its a very interesting idea, but lets face it, if youre worried, you know, are youre worried, you know, are you overweight, look down, can you overweight, look down, can you pinch an inch . The book i read that i mentioned was very interesting because it very much fed into what you were saying about eating Natural Foods because youre better at digesting them because thats what youve been designed to do. You and it will build up your body where it needs to be built up, but it will also pass through you more, more healthily. So much of the modern diet is based on very highly processed wheat products. You cereal wheat products. You have cereal for breakfast maybe some for breakfast and maybe some toast. A sandwich for toast. You have a sandwich for lunch, you might have biscuit lunch, you might have a biscuit at tea time, you might have pasta dinner. Youre pasta for dinner. Youre essentially exactly the essentially eating exactly the same all day. And then same things all day. And then youre probably eating wheat based wheat based based or drinking wheat based dnnks based or drinking wheat based drinks lagers. So are drinks like lagers. So you are you eating overindexing your you are eating overindexing your body on single ingredients over processed eat. That again is part of the book. But well get on to some apple based drinking slightly later. Thank you william. Coming up, home secretary up, could the home secretary have solution to have found the solution to the perennial pestilence lefty perennial pestilence of lefty lawyers . Oh, and plus, do you dine alone. Dine alone. Looks like things are heating up. Boxed boilers, proud sponsors of weather on. Gb news. Sponsors of weather on. Gb news. Good evening and welcome to your latest news weather forecast. Im craig snow. Were looking ahead to tomorrow for most of us, it should be largely dry. Best of sunshine will be out towards the east and for most of us, should be feeling most of us, it should be feeling warm than it has done. So heres a situation at the moment, weve got pressure beginning to got High Pressure beginning to build and cloud build in todays rain and cloud all from area all responsible from this area of pressure gradually of low pressure will gradually move we go into the move away as we go into the night time period. So a lot night time period. So for a lot of us, we should start wednesday off clear note. Its off on a fairly clear note. Its still windy the still quite windy across the very far of shetland and very far north of shetland and out the west. Were out towards the west. Were starting to just see the next spell and rain move in. Spell of cloud and rain move in. But should be a but for most it should be a fairly mild start wednesday, fairly mild start to wednesday, with staying in with most of us staying in double. So plenty of double figures. So plenty of sunshine initially across the uk. But this cloud and outbreaks of rain will spread its way a little bit further eastwards as we go through the course of the day. So i think come the afternoon rather grey skies for Northern Ireland, parts of western scotland and down into wales, england wales, southwest england and eventually midlands too eventually into the midlands too. Of sunshine really. So the best of sunshine really will be out towards the east eastern scotland, south east england, probably seeing the lions share and in the southeast feeling warmer southeast feeling much warmer highs 24 degrees and highs reaching 24 degrees and then into thursday, after a bit of a slow grey start, this cloud will quickly burn away. And actually, firstly, hes probably going be day of going to be the best day of the week of us. Plenty of week for most of us. Plenty of sunshine come the afternoon and in the Sunshine Feeling much warmer, 27, warmer, highs reaching 27, possibly 28 degrees in the south. But this is one day, one day into friday, day as we go into friday, turning cooler and more showery. And into weekend, and that goes into the weekend, too. Looks like things are heating up. Heating up. Boxed boilers, proud sponsors of weather on. Gb news. Welcome back. I remain jacob welcome back. I remain Jacob Rees Mogg and im very grateful that youve been getting in touch with your thoughts, but ive got special guest reader ive got a special guest reader for the mail mogs today in the form of thomas rees mogg. Thomas, are people been thomas, what are people been getting touch say . Getting in touch to say . Steve if we were meant steve said, if we were meant to be vegan, wouldnt have to be vegan, we wouldnt have incisors. If nature had intended us vegan, we wouldnt have us to be vegan, we wouldnt have made of made the change thousands of years ago. We eat too much meat, years ago. We eat too much meat, but thats a different story. Really good point. Thats a really good point. Our mouths are designed to eat meat, and theres a very interesting they interesting thing they discovered bones discovered with old bones at cheddar here, cheddar not very far from here, where the human bones had clearly eaten more meat than the bones of the carnivores that they found nearby. So wed be meat eaters forever. Any other meat eaters forever. Any other thoughts . Thoughts . Mike said. What is the mike said. What is the fantastic fireplace made of . I reckon its alabaster. Reckon its alabaster. I dont think it is alabaster. I imagine it is local somerset stone, but im very grateful for the interest that weve had in the interest that weve had in the fireplace. Ill have to get a study of it done and write something about it in future. So something about it in future. So thank you for the mel mugs. Keep them coming now. A really them coming in. Now. A really impressive series of daily mail investigations revealed perhaps what many of us had suspected , what many of us had suspected, that are crooked lawyers that there are crooked lawyers in britain being paid untold sums of money to exploit and undermine our asylum system and its a testament to the free press that just today the home secretary announced a new taskforce has been set up to combat these unsavoury practises. Some solicitors have been charging up to £10,000 for bogus asylum claims, as well as training their clients, their potential clients to lie to authorities when being processed out. The report contained extremely disturbing instances, including lawyers inventing backstories about torture , backstories about torture, beatings and slave labour. And this really matters because it makes it harder for the people whove really suffered. And whove really suffered. And along with yesterdays news of the bibby stockholm farage opening up and speculation of using Ascension Island for offshore processing, we need to refocus our attention on the rwanda policy and how essential it to these problems. It is to solve these problems. All together. When even ken clarke, not somebody you would ever consider on the hard right of politics, the kind of blue conservative that he is, has backed the rwanda scheme because no one has put forward a viable alternative. It seems to me fair to say that it has a pretty good base of support and is the best way forward. But im now joined way forward. But im now joined by former cabinet minister in the blair government, shaun woodward. Shaun, thank you very woodward. Shaun, thank you very much for joining woodward. Shaun, thank you very much forjoining me. Is there an alternative to the rwanda scheme if you were still in government and you were close to tony blair, what would you have been advising a Prime Minister to do to solve the illegal migration problem . Problem . Well, i think the real problem with the rwanda scheme are the challenges that are posed by people actually feeling that its not a safe country to return people to. And speaking as a gay man myself , i and speaking as a gay man myself, i really and speaking as a gay man myself , i really do and speaking as a gay man myself, i really do have and speaking as a gay man myself , i really do have worries myself, i really do have worries about what this might mean for people. And i think really when ken was making that speech in the house of lords in support of the house of lords in support of the bill, what he said, we better give it a go because theres nothing else on the table. And i think that really is where tony would have been very about this, which very different about this, which is he would had is that he would have had alternative policies on the table. And crucially, william, i table. And crucially, william, i think what he would have learned from him was the brilliant review done by Wendy Williams into windrush and what windrush basically said in that report was , is we should have spent was, is we should have spent more time looking at the consequences of the windrush policy before we implemented it , the impact it would have on people. And i think what people. And i think what therefore tony blair would be saying here is , is the idea of saying here is, is the idea of this policy. This is a pretty exotic policy, putting people on aeroplanes to fly several thousand miles to rwanda or 4000 miles to the Ascension Island. Miles to the Ascension Island. And i think it was when you were a minister, jacob, wasnt it, that actually i think you told us that it was going to cost £1 million a person to go to the Ascension Island . I mean, i Ascension Island . I mean, i think people will be watching your program tonight thinking that everyones really lost the plot. When were spending plot. When were spending millions of i dont think the person to fly them around the world. I dont think the Ascension Island scheme is a runner because theres nothing there. There isnt even sufficient water to put thousands of people there. And your point on you and i agree is important. But the hostile with that, that wont work. Thats not a runner. And i also agree with you that windrush was a terrible scandal. Indeed, the hostile environment policy was a bad and i think un british policy. And im glad that that is in the past. But on rwanda, you mention the risks for people going to rwanda, but the home office has done its homework here. Theyve got a very robust agreement in place with rwanda. Theyve had it looked at to ensure that rwanda will protect the rights of Asylum Seekers who are sent there. And so i think you paint a picture of rwanda that is unfair to what rwanda is agreeing to do on behalf of the home office. Home office. Well, i dont want to be unfair to rwanda. Im really coming just behind the evidence thatis coming just behind the evidence that is being provided by countries all around the world that do not regard it as a safe country for refugees and i think the tie up im trying to make that jacob, you and i agree on here in learning from windrush is the importance of getting these things right. Is the importance of getting these things right. And i think these things right. And i think when ken said, look , there isnt when ken said, look, there isnt anything else on the table , i anything else on the table, i mean, thats really the big criticism, i think, of the government. And again, i dont want to rehearse brexit here, but we have to remember the European Union as a collective found a solution to the same sort of problem by making an agreement with turkey that did not involve flying people several thousand miles around the world or coming up with a crackpot ideas of going to the Ascension Island where theres no hospital and there are only 900 people. And at £1 million a shot. I 900 people. And at £1 million a shot. I think the other thing just to well into the work here, which , as i say , i dont think which, as i say, i dont think the Ascension Island is a serious runner. And i was surprised to see it. It briefed. I think rwanda it. It briefed. I think rwanda is because rwanda is a significant country. Its got facilities there. Youre absolutely right. The policies need to be thought through. But this policy has been thought through. Its been discussed over many years. And rwanda has come out as the best and most affordable option that people have looked at following what australia did and trying to turn back the the argument back the boats. The argument there isnt sufficient there is there isnt sufficient international that International Water to make that possible. So theyve looked at the part of australias the other part of australias process , which was to move process, which was to move people to be processed outside australia, which led to a dramatic decline in Illegal Migrants trying to get there and stop dangerous journeys being taken by sometimes quite Vulnerable People and so although you say this is the policy because theres nothing else, well, it may be its there because its the best policy. Having discounted the other ones , but we havent persuaded the rest of the world that its a safe policy and we havent persuaded the rest of the world that rwanda is a safe country and thats really the problem that were wrestling with here. Jacob, i know that you like me. You want everyone to me. I mean, you want everyone to be treated humanely. Theres no disagreement us about disagreement between us about this. The disagreement between us about this. The disagreement about this. The disagreement is about making sure that rwanda is making sure that if rwanda is the best way of doing it, that it is safe. And so long as the it is safe. And so long as the debate rages around whether its a safe place to put people, weve got to resolve that first. And what windrush teaches us is that simply saying, well, weve got nothing left, so well do it anyway, isnt a solution. An and anyway, isnt a solution. An and again, i just want to say one very important thing, sean. The very important thing, sean. The government very quickly , because government very quickly, because we need to finish on the table , we need to finish on the table, i think shows itself to be desperate and the policy doesnt need desperate measures. It needs good measures. Why on earth is the government floated the crackpot idea of the Ascension Island when it thinks it might not win the argument on rwanda . It makes them look rwanda . It makes them look insane. Im not. Im. Im not trying to defend ascension , and i to defend ascension, and i wonder where that story came from. Stories dont always come from. Stories dont always come from inside the government. From inside the government. Sometimes they come from the governments sean, governments opponents. Sean, thank for joining this thank you for joining this program. Again. Hope welcome program. Again. Hope to welcome you in future. Coming you back again in future. Coming up, is the nanny state stronger than ever. Welcome back. I continue to identify as Jacob Rees Mogg and youve been getting in touch with your mail logs, for which my thanks, john. If lawyers are charging up to £10,000 and legal aid, surely they should have their assets confiscated and get a prison sentence. If theyre fiddling the taxpayer. Cathy lets not forget it was tony blair who wanted to put it up the tories, by inviting all migrants to come here and they would be welcome. Graham would be welcome. And graham graham, so kind. Graham, youre so kind. Fantastic usual, graham, youre so kind. Fantastic usual , jacob. Fantastic show as usual, jacob. Really good idea from your house and getting the kids involved is fantastic. Theyve been fantastic. Well, theyve been very to get involved and very keen to get involved and i think when mary gets back from her she will be her holiday she will be disappointed with her father and possibly godfather, possibly her godfather, mr william , who is back william sitwell, who is back with me. But under the governments new alcohol taxing system, alcohol is to be taxed based on its strength rather than the previous categories of wine , spirits ciders. Wine, beer, spirits and ciders. This means that duty will increase overall, particularly with wines and spirits , although with wines and spirits, although it will fall on lower alcohol dnnks it will fall on lower alcohol drinks and most sparkling wines a bit less , as my next guests a bit less, as my next guests put it, should we fight back on these legal and hectoring attacks on our right to booze . As you all know , the government as you all know, the government recommends no more than 14 units per week at the entrance of the oracle of delphi. It said oracle of delphi. It said everything in moderation, which is perhaps good dietary and indeed drinking advice. Well, indeed drinking advice. Well, still with me and still indefatigable holding the labellum is william sitwell, as i said, marys godfather and telegraph restaurant critic william weve got some good somerset cider yes, in front of us. But sensible drinking is important, isnt it . Oh thats quite potent, isnt it . Im not sure how sensible that is. Its like scrumpy than a light side. Of course it is. But its pretty. Its pretty powerful stuff. Of course it sensible drinking is important and to me its about trying to enact cultural change so people understand about how to drink alcohol and when to enjoy it and how to be sensible. Obviously but whats depressing about this new piece of government legislation is it takes a sort of sledgehammer to the issue and it labels booze as bad in the same way that the government did this incredibly regressive and depressing edict on calories making restaurants list calories. Because what that does is encourages phobia about food. You know that calories are bad for you. Calories arent bad for you. Theres no such thing really as bad food. Theres bad diet and theres no such thing as bad booze. Its bad consumption of booze. Okay im going to disagree with you because i think there are some alcohol models that are bad for people and encourage antisocial behaviour and that if you take cider or beer, people dnnk you take cider or beer, people drink it for the flavour. But some particularly young people with what used to be alcopops dnnk with what used to be alcopops drink things because theyre alcoholic, because they want to get drunk. Most people, everyone drinks, most people drink alcohol because of the effect. The because of the effect. Its the point of okay you drink point of it. Okay you drink alcohol to get yourself into a mood. It softens , you know, mood. It softens, you know, atmospheres, it enables conversation. I mean, to suggest that people drink alcohol for the effect. Thats the whole the effect. Thats the whole point it. But you dont want point of it. But you dont want that effect to too great and that effect to be too great and you want it have you dont want it to have a particular effect on young people. No. And it is the everything in moderation. And isnt it . Right. Partly because you need to raise a certain amount of money to fund the country that you should do on the alcohol you should do it on the alcohol content there was content because there was this idea, be the law that idea, it used to be the law that sparkling wine was taxed more highly flat wine, highly than flat wine, regardless alcohol content. Regardless of alcohol content. Well, should that have been . But 7 but its 7 but its also 7 but its also unfair because , you know, the way that temperatures moving north means that a lot of countries like spain, particularly , theyre spain, particularly, theyre getting so much sunshine that more of the sugar is turning into alcohol. So they are by mistake producing big, fat, boozy rockers. And youre supposed to and you target that. And its you know, i know there are specific brands that are created that target people such as very high strength alcohol. Well, but, you know , its up to well, but, you know, its up to the individual to choose when to dnnk the individual to choose when to drink and how to drink it. Just look at bottles of wine that its certainly been noticeable that claret, noticeable. That claret, which is something that you and i both enjoy from you, brush your teeth with it. Well, i wouldnt go that far. Has up from about that far. Has gone up from about 12. 5, 14. Now, that hasnt 12. 5, about 14. Now, that hasnt improved the flavour of it. It has simply made it more alcoholic and i dont think thats a good thing. I hope that they do go back to 12 necessarily. Look there are some wine are making wine producers who are making higher strength alcohol, higher abv drinks because theyre making up for more wheat grapes and so on. So claret is probably a sort of slightly erroneous example. We are getting these big, boozy, blowsy wines that a lot of them come from california. I think come from california. I think the answer is, you know , just, the answer is, you know, just, you know, use wine to explore the world. You know, drink more interestingly , dont worry about interestingly, dont worry about the alcohol content purely. Well, thats a very good way of putting it anyway. Were not exactly known for our foreign News Coverage here on state of the nation. Its in the title state of the nation. And were certainly are, except especially when to bureaucracy, when it comes to bureaucracy, when it comes to bureaucracy, when european when it comes to european food. Were forgiving. Today were more forgiving. News today has continent that has shocked the continent that barcelona restaurants have been turning solo diners, turning away solo diners, preferring the option of multiple diners occupying their tables. William is a tables. But william is a restaurant critic. Dont you sometimes have to eat alone . And sometimes have to eat alone . And isnt there something rather spiritual about that . I do eat alone quite often. I travel around the country eating out. So theres a sort of, you know, fair balance of location and i may not necessarily have a lot of friends in manchester or liverpool or newcastle. I was in newcastle last week. I ate alone in an Indian Restaurant called chi chi. I ate alone in a in a chi chi. I ate alone in a in a wonderful british restaurant, engush wonderful british restaurant, english seasonal restaurant called jesmond. Ive sort called lovage jesmond. Ive sort of got over the phobia of feeling like im a sort of sad, lonely old dining on my own. I love eating on my own when i get the chance because theres no small children around. Its a moment of wonderful peace. I can read a paper, read a book. I find it a really civilised thing. Actually. I used to feel quite insecure about it. I think if restaurants are turning away solo diners, its probably because people were on their own to tend to drink less. I mean, i to tend to drink less. I mean, i quite like the idea of getting mildly pickled by myself. Its mildly pickled by myself. Its rather sort of pleasurable experience , although obviously experience, although obviously i wouldnt necessarily recommend that up to the individual. That its up to the individual. Of course, i think if a business decides they want to turn people away they may probably away because they may probably make margin on wine, make less of a margin on wine, its completely up the its completely up to the business does that. You business that does that. You know, their own. Its their know, its their own. Its their company. Should be able to company. They should be able to do what they like. Yes. But if you go into a restaurant and you see people dining you actually tend dining alone, you actually tend to its a to think its quite a comfortable , friendly, welcoming comfortable, friendly, welcoming restaurant there arent restaurant because there arent huge number of restaurants in london id feel london where id feel comfortable on own. There are comfortable on my own. There are 1 2 and theyre ones that 1 or 2 and theyre ones that i know well and feel will look after me properly. Yeah, sure. I there are places i mean, there are places where might the where you might sit at the counter and you feel that, you know, youre not being looked at. Look at the at. You can, you can look at the chefs preparing food. Its a sort atmosphere where sort of busier atmosphere where you check your phone a bit. You can check your phone a bit. You know. So i think its a sign of civilisation. I do with of civilisation. I do agree with you. Always you. The idea and i always rather i remember when i was younger sort of seeing a sort of chap the corner dining on his chap in the corner dining on his own, enjoying himself. And i thought, thats thought, god, thats, thats so civilised i often civilised because i mean often one of the reasons that you dont necessarily eat out is because of the food. Its the company. So i rather like it when i see people eating out purely for the food because theyre can take theyre purists and you can take good book with you. I would recommend i would always recommend taking wodehouse if youre taking pg wodehouse if youre eating own and it is, eating on your own and it is, its very calming, particularly if, us, its very calming, particularly if, us, youre if, like the two of us, youre in a large family where mealtimes can sometimes be quite rowdy. Yeah, we absolutely crave solo dining. So im a big fan and to the business point, it seems to me its always a business mistake to turn away business mistake to turn away business that you want to keep your business going. And somebody is coming in and if somebody is coming in and spend money, why and wants to spend money, why not away . Not turn them away . Let people in of all always let people in of all colours and creeds, you know . So i agree with you. I mean, thats absolutely right. Well, weve ended on a great spirit of agreement. Thank you, william. Thats all from me. Up next, its the great professor daniel wootton, all from me. Up next, its the greatwhatessor daniel wootton, all from me. Up next, its the greatwhat have daniel wootton, all from me. Up next, its the greatwhat have you el wootton, all from me. Up next, its the greatwhat have you coming on, all from me. Up next, its the greatwhat have you coming up on dan, what have you coming up on your program next . Show. I am big jacob great show. I am a big fan on my own. I have fan of dining on my own. I have to with a book very much to say with a book very much enjoy it. So im with you there. But we have a big show ahead. Our leo has tracked down our ben leo has tracked down erim is the labour erim ali. Now she is the labour councillor who has promised to assist illegal immigrant boats stay in the country. So thats a fascinating encounter. Plus, richard tice reacts to those comments from the tory depher Party Deputy Chairman lee anderson , about whether migrants anderson, about whether migrants should just f off back to france. His words obviously jacob, not mine. Plus, prince harry has arrived in japan today. Whats that all about and why is he on another solo trip without megan, angela levin and tom bower to analyse that . Tom bower to analyse that . Oh, well, you always have the most interesting guests and stories. And lee anderson is a great man, but his language is a bit fruitier than mine. Anyway wonderful stuff from you as always. Dan it all sounds very exciting. Yes. And that is state of the nation. Now lets see what the weathers got in store. Weathers got in store. That warm feeling inside from boxt boilers, proud sponsors of weather on. Gb news. Weather on. Gb news. Good evening and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. Im craig snow. Were looking ahead to tomorrow. For most of us, it should be largely dry. Best sunshine will dry. Best of the sunshine will be out towards the for be out towards the east and for most us should be feeling most of us it should be feeling warmer it has done. So warmer than it has done. So heres situation at the heres a situation at the moment, High Pressure moment, weve got High Pressure beginning to build in todays rain and will responsible rain and cloud will responsible from low pressure from this area of low pressure will gradually move away we will gradually move away as we go night time period. Go into the night time period. So of us, we should so for a lot of us, we should start on a fairly start wednesday off on a fairly clear note, still quite windy across far north of across the very far north of shetland that towards the shetland and that towards the west were starting to just see the cloud and rain the next spell of cloud and rain move in. But most it should move in. But for most it should be fairly mild start to be a fairly mild start to wednesday, with of us wednesday, with most of us staying figures. So staying in double figures. So plenty of sunshine initially across the uk. But this cloud and outbreaks of rain will spread its way a little bit further eastwards as we go through the course of the day. So i think come the afternoon rather grey skies for Northern Ireland, western ireland, parts of western scotland and down wales, scotland and down into wales, southwest england eventually southwest england and eventually into too. The into the midlands too. So the best sunshine really be best of sunshine really will be out the east, east, out towards the east, east, eastern south east eastern scotland, south east england, the england, probably seeing the lions the lions share. And in the southeast much southeast feeling much warmer highs 24 degrees and highs reaching 24 degrees and then into thursday, after a bit of a slow grey start, this cloud will burn away. And will quickly burn away. And actually is probably going actually first is probably going to day of the week to be the best day of the week for most of us. Plenty of sunshine come the afternoon and in feeling much in the Sunshine Feeling much warmer, highs reaching 27, possibly the possibly 28 degrees in the south. But this is one day, one day as we go into friday, turning and more showery. Turning cooler and more showery. And weekend, too. That warm feeling inside from boxt boilers, proud sponsors of weather on. Gb news join me weather on. Gb news join me Camilla Tominey on sunday mornings from 930, taking the politicians to task and breaking out of w1 to see how theyre decisions are affecting you across the uk. Bursting the westminster bubble every sunday no spin, no bias , no censorship. No spin, no bias, no censorship. Im dan wootton. Tonight if they dont like barges, they can f off back to france. Those were the strong but fair words of deputy tory chairman lee anderson. But Nick Robinson and the bbc elites are as ever not reading the mood of increasingly furious brits. Do you think telling people to f off back to france, do you think that is the reflection of a tolerant , outward facing a tolerant, outward facing nafion a tolerant, outward facing nation . Nafion . Later this hour, reform uk leader richard tice dissects the feigned outrage over the bibby stockholm home barge from those sorts of lefty liberals. But before that, as highly partisan lawyers blocked 20 migrants from boarding. Do you agree with ricky besson that only a, quote, hostile environment can stop illegal migration . Ricky is ready and waiting to make his case, and then henry bolton and nina myskow do battle in the clash. Plus you remember the shocking advert from a newcastle solicitor and labour councillor i do not fear irim. Ali is here do not fear irim. Ali is here to help you to regularise your visa