It went on to say the family thanks you all for your Love And Support and asked for privacy. At this time, there was no immediate comment from the army or details about the other bodies found. The White House confirms the idf found six bodies in total in underground tunnels on saturday. Hamas militants took around 250 people during the October 7thTerror Attack on israel. An estimated 104 hostages remain in their custody. This news comes as Ceasefire And Hostage talks continue between israel and hamas. Thousands of protesters in israel continue Benjamin NetanyahuReach A Deal. For more on all of this, lets bring in Heritage Foundation, national Security Vice President and former deputy national Security Advisor Victoria coates. Victoria, thanks for coming on with us. This morning. I just want your immediate thoughts on whats transpired. Well, of course, this is an awful day. I mean, for america as well as for israel. I mean, hersh was just an american kid going to a Music Festival whose arm was blown off, who made it to gaza, who survived, who had a proof of Life Video in april, i met his parents in in july in israel. This is just heartbreaking that he has been executed since then. And, you know, for all of the hostages. I mean, it just shows you how perilous the situation is and that hamas has not been negotiating in good faith. They have had these people at their at their discretion now for almost a year. And this is what is happening. These kids are being slaughtered. And so you have to wonder what the endgame is for the administration here. And i think we need to be very supportive of the israelis doing everything they can to wrap this up. And destroy hama. You know, victoria, apparently these bodies were recovered under a tunnel in rafah, you know, after these six were recovered, these bodies, theres apparently about 101 other hostages. I mean, what are the chances that theyre alive . I mean, we have to remain hopeful, and there should be somewhere between five and now seven americans that are amongst them. And thats why this matters to us here at home. I mean, it matters to us because israel is a great and good ally. But also these are American Citizens and so, you know, we have to be be hugely vigilant about this. And wonder if there was something else we could have done over the summer to save. Hirsh. I mean, this was such a public case. His parents spoke at the dnc, and it just its Mind Boggling to me that that we would have let this go so far that hamas would have been willing to, to let that particularly precious hostage what should have been a precious, precious hostage to them die. And you know, when you talk about the hostages and the families, theyre mad. A lot of these families are mad at Benjamin Netanyahu over this. He theyre saying that he basically abandoned them. What are your thoughts on on that sentiment . Well, its obviously always just the most agonizing balancing game. And ive been part of some of these conversations during the trump administration. You know, where, you know, youre trying to balance National Security versus the security of a single hostage. Its just its the most impossible thing. And i think the Prime Minister is doing his best to both prosecute the National Security interests of the state of israel and get the hostages back. And what i havent seen is a similar urgency out of the Bidenharris Administration to both prosecute the war against hamas and bring The American hostages home. You know, when you talk about President Biden, he did speak about this today. But what i mean, what response should Vice President harris have . Because ultimately, shes the one on the ticket. And now that The Americans, you know, there are they are involved. We have found they found american hostages dead. So what should she be saying . Well, thats thats really putting your finger on it, which is this is an american who was executed after he was alive in april. So during all of these negotiations, weve been going through over since the president made his announcement of his phased Ceasefire Proposal in may. I mean, during that period, this American Citizen was executed. And so we have to ask, i mean, are we negotiating with good faith partners . This doesnt make any sense. And i think a lot of americans need to look and say, gee, under President Trump, we didnt have this. We didnt have these attacks on israel. We didnt have American Citizens being held hostage and then executed by iranian Proxy Terrorist groups. And i hate to put it that bluntly, but thats literally the choice before us going forward. I mean, what what do we want . And, you know, we you know, were now about to mark the one Year Anniversary of the October 7th attacks. So this is this is a really grim reminder of the enemy that were up against. It is. And it will be interesting to see if they can actually come to a Ceasefire Agreement and a Hostage Release Agreement like they say theyve been working on. But you bring up an excellent points. What has been going on since this happened. I mean, no movement has been made, no progress has been made. Victoria coates, i appreciate your time tonight. Were now going to go to former israeli diplomat and former israeli consulate in new York Spokesperson shahar shahar. Can you hear me . Yes, i can, actually, i can. Thanks for thanks for coming on with us this morning. We appreciate it, especially with the hour that it is. I just want your initial thoughts on whats happened and this news that has come out of The Middle East. You know, actually, the heart. The heart is broken. My heart and the hearts of so many israelis, americans and decent people in israel, the united states and all across the world. Hersh goldbergpolin, along with several other hostages, were murdered by the savagery of hamas Terrorist Organization in an image that reminds us again that we are facing what is the ultimate evil, these people and this is a fact that too many people have chosen to forget were snatched from their homes, from the party, from celebrating life by Hamas Savages on a Saturday Morning in an attack that started on deliberate perpetrated murderous attack by hamas at 6 29 a. M. On a Saturday Morning. Can you imagine . Almost a full year they spent in hamas cruel captivity, and we heard from other hostages the kind of conditions they were held under and then losing their lives. According to initial reports, still unconfirmed only recently at the hands of these hamas savage captors. Our hearts are shattered. Our eyes are filled with tears. We are truly broken at this horrible sight of inhumanity. Yeah. I mean, these the bodies that were found, they were people who were at that festival, it was men and women. And now we have an american that was found, you know, and i dont want to make light of anything. I mean, not just The American. All of these hostages who were found. It doesnt matter if theyre american or not. Theyre people. I just want to make that very clear. Exactly, but, you know, apparently, you know, Victoria Coates, the woman i just had on. And i was speaking to, she said that hersh was alive, apparently in april. That was almost, what, four months ago . So what are we doing wrong . What is going so wrong with these Ceasefire Talks for this negotiation with the Hostage Release and the ceasefire . What what are we not doing . Why has a deal not been reached . And do you think we can even Reach A Deal with these people . Well, you know, we are dealing here with a death cult, ashley. These are people who desire death. They came to israel and murdered thousands of people, injured innocent people. You know, youre mentioning the people who are still being held captive. And i just want to mention for a young baby who was kidnaped at nine months ol, nine months old, along with his mother and his brother and his father and all of his family is still being held by hamas. Now hamas desires one clear thing they want to survive, just like they said, months ago, so that they are able to perpetrate another massacre again and again and again. And im quoting this now under these conditions, as long as this is what hamas desires and when they want to perpetrate another massacre of innocents, this is something that israel cannot allow. Now, if this is what they desire, can israel give it to them . Should israel give it to them, and at what expense . Its a very difficult dilemma. Moral dilemma that israel is facing now because weve seen the consequences of that massacre. Having said that, israel has made numerous concessions towards hamas. But i will tell you frankly, its time to increase pressure on hamas. Its time for the us administration to unleash israels hands, to allow israel to use as much force as it needs against hamas In Gaza in order to eradicate hamas. And this is not just for the benefit of israel. This is the benefit of palestinians. This is the benefit of the regional stability in The Middle East. Hamas needs to go, not tomorrow, not today. Yesterday, if you were in charge, how would you take care of that situation . Well, its quite clear that there are elements in the deal that could move forward. For instance, a cessation of hostilities for a certain period of time to allow for more humanitarian aid to go into gaza. And at the same time for hostages to be released. But its also very clear that hamas is unwilling to do so unless they get guarantees. And so we heard guarantees that not only they, as an organization, survive this, the war. Not only is the war going to be over completely and utterly, but we are hearing also that the Coward Leader of hamas, yahya sinwar, is asking for guarantees that he personally will not die after the murderous attack against israel. We know what theyre interested in doing to continuously immiserate the lives of palestinians and israelis in the region. And you know what . We must also remember that this does not begin and end with hamas itsel. In the course of the last ten months, we have seen the islamic republic of iran continuously playing a negative role, not just in hamas In Gaza, but also all across The Middle East against israel and american forces, destabilizing the region, using the Houthis In Yemen, bringing calamity over the head of ordinary lebanese, using the shiite terrorist group hezbollah. And what weve seen in the last few months in the West Bank when they have been funneling weapons and support to hamas and Islamic Jihad there only over the weekend in israel, we have seen two murderous attempts of terrorists who took Car Bombs into the proximity of jewish towns and villages in order to murder people. Luckily, this did not happen because brave people stood up against them and were able to avert the attack. But we have to address the main problem in the middle East And Today the main problem in The Middle East, not just for The Middle East itself, but also for iranians themselves, is the islamic republic of iran. And until we are able to deal with that threat, The Middle East will continue to suffer under this terrible evil regime. You know, shahar, you were talking about nine month old babies being taken from their homes. I remember i was nine months pregnant when all of this started, and when you see the images of car seats, for little babies with blood all over them, it it it affects you in a way you wouldnt understand. And i, i could not imagine being Family Members of people that this has happened to. And knowing that not only were your Family Members killed, but not knowing whats happened to the hostages, if youre related to them, if youre a friend of this person, right. Really quickly, you know, we just we are all we are all the families of these hostages since october seventh. Now, i totally agree. I totally agree, you know, shahar, we just got the names of the rest of the Hostages Bodies that were released. I want to i want to, say these really quickly. And im so sorry if i pronounce these wrong, the hostages were kamal gad, eden yerushalmi. Hersh goldbergpolin, who weve been speaking about. Whos The American . Alexander lebanov almog, suraci, and Master Sergeant uri danino. Like i said, these were all people who were at a festival when they were taken, you know, and when youre talking about the pain. Sorry. No. Go on, Go On. I was saying you were mentioning the pain of the families, and i was saying that we are all families with these hostages and those killed, and we can think exactly about the kind of suffering that not only theyre going through in captivity, but think about that day, actually think about many hours of torment, torture, sexual attack, rapes, pillaging, killing, murdering, and torturing. Can you believe six hours, eight hours, 12 hours that were eternity for all of these victims who were murdered so cruelly at the hands of these hamas terrorists . And we live this reality every day with every name and every story for israelis and decent people across the world. Its never stopped being October 8th. Do you think the rest of the hostages are alive as israelis, as jews, as decent people . We never lose hope, even as we heard the initial news over the weekend about these six hostages, we always hoped until the final message, the final announcement comes out. So we are hoping that at least some of them are still alive, but we have no expectations of any Hamas Savagery and cruelty. We know the kind of evil that we are dealing with, and i hope that the rest of the world understands. As we approach October 7th, we hear of antiisrael, antiu. S. Prohamas groups planning to commemorate October 7th, which is an unbelievable insolence. Can you imagine anybody commemorating, you know, Osama Bin Laden commemorating September 11th . Can you imagine this being allowed anywhere . I hope we will not see it here, that we will see civility as the Jewish Community and decent people across the world come to remember the atrocity, not just in hindsight, but also the obligation that we all have to stand up to this evil so that never again is never, ever again. Its unthinkable. I couldnt imagine what these people are going through and what theyve been through, i just have no words for it. Charazani, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate i. And then joining us now, we have Rabbi Mintz. Rabbi, i need your, your, your thoughts and your take on this information that were just now starting to get. I dont know if you heard, but i read off the rest of the names of the Hostages Bodies that were found today In Gaza. But your thoughts on whats happening . It breaks my heart. It breaks my heart. Its terrible. Here youre looking at young people. Some of them could have been doctors. Some of them could have been lawyers. Some of them could have been people that created jobs for humanity. These people, their lives were snuffed out for no reason. I went to israel two weeks after the war began. I went to the hospitals and i saw legs blown off. Id seen arms blown off. Ive seen. But in their eyes, they were hoping. They were hoping to destroy hamas. And the reason why they want hamas destroyed all of the people there is because every two years its demanded on israel make a Cease Fire, make a Cease Fire. And then once again, we have to go in. And how many, how many tragedies do we have to go through . But whats bothering me more than anything else is i was always hoping maybe The Americans. Im an american, maybe theyre scared to kill an american. Maybe theyre frightened to go because of the power that america could put upon. And the ones own. They didnt find dead because he starved. He was killed. He was killed weeks ago. Days ago. Its an old debt that means this guy has been lying there dead, shot, killed, and all America Today can go and say is, we got to bring a Cease Fire to the war. Why . So hamas lives . Are we kidding ourselves . You must understand. Three years ago, iran was broke. I know trump has said A Thousand times. Im reaching out to some of my jewish friends out there. Iran was broke. Broke. They dont have a penny to their name. We kept on giving them billions. We shut off our oil. Theyre selling oil. Theyre supplying billions to the terrorists. Its our action in america that has supplied the terror. And It Hurts. And unfortunately, it sounds political, but these are facts. These are the facts of reality. And as a rabbi, when i heard this earlier, it was my sabbath and i said, im not allowed to hear bad news, but this is the truth. This is the reality. And i go and i say, how could this be in Todays World . In israel, the families are mourning the those that are demanding end the war. Could you blame them . Theyre emotionally. I want my baby home. I want my child home. It bothers them and It Hurts them. Oh, i couldnt, i couldnt imagine, especially the families of these now confirmed six human lives who were found under a tunnel In Gaza. This false hope that theyve had thinking, oh, were going to reach a ceasefire. Theyre going to reach a ceasefire deal, theyre going to release these hostages. Were going to get our Family Members. Were going to get our our sons, our daughters, our friends home. Only now for them to just find their bodies. Im just saying. And even if the war ended today, even if the war ended today, what theyre going to find out is an unfortunate. I heard you asked the question before. Do i believe that there are hostages alive . The very first Thing America should be doing. Youre sitting there negotiating. First thing is show us newspaper from August 31st and show a man or a woman or a baby alive. Show us what were dealing with. If not, we cut off the oil to the world and we start pumping something. Theres no strength in our words. Theres no bite. So i see the families in israel stop the war. I want my baby home. I dont care alive, dead stop the war. But if we stop the war, someone elses blood is going to be taken tomorrow because hamas lives. They are sworn not to just kill israel and the jews. But remember, theres a big satan and theyre coming after america. The people in america. Youre sitting here and were watching all the beautiful tv shows were watching, and were feeling good. Its all nice. Same thing was going on in israel. Theyll strike. And like i said, they were at a festival and having fun, enjoying themselves, you know, rabbi, we have a statement that i want to read from President Biden on Hersh Goldbergpolin just bear with me just a second. Im going to read this and well talk about it. Says earlier today, in a tunnel under the city of rafah, israeli forces recovered six bodies of hostages held by hamas. We have now confirmed that one of the hostages killed by these vicious hamas terrorists was an American Citizen. Hersh goldbergpolin. Im devastated and outraged. Hersh was among the innocents brutally attacked while attending a Music Festival for peace in israel on October 7th. He lost his arm helping friends and strangers during hamass savage massacre. He had just turned 23. He planned to travel the world. I have gotten to know his parents, john and rachel. They have been courageous, wise and steadfast, even as they have endured the unimaginable. They have been relentless and irrepressible champions of their son and all the hostages held in those conditions. I admire them and grieve with them more deeply than words can express. I know all americans tonight will have them in their prayers. Just as jill and i will. I have worked tirelessly to bring their Beloved Hersh safely, safely to them, and i am heartbroken by the news of his death. It is a tragic as it is reprehensible. Make no mistake, hamas leaders will pay for these crimes and we will keep working around the clock for a deal to secure the release of the remaining hostages. So thats a statement from President Biden. You know what stuck out to me here at the end, hamas leaders will pay for these crimes and will keep working around the clock. Hersh was alive in april. So what what is the holdup . What is taking so long, exactly . If i knew if we knew that there was somebody inside a bank being held hostage, we bring the swat team. If i knew that were not talking about a whole country here. We are talking about a little piece of land that is no more than ten miles by ten miles. And right now its cornered to maybe two miles by two miles. And i know america is allowing israel to do all the work, but lets be honest, if this is all it is, you go and you say to israel, lets bring in our guys, were going to work this together and get it over with in two days. Heres the other thing that bothers me. It bothers me. We talk about innocent lives. Innocent lives. There is a Plan Somewhere that allows egypt not to open up the doors to get the millions of people out, that they could be in tents in the middle of the sinai desert, protected by the United Nations troops. Israel could finish this in two weeks. America, you can come in with your snipers. You can come in with your people and gotten an american hostage, an american hostage was killed by a terrorist. And the best my president could say is down the road, the leaders. By the way, there wasnt a leader that shot the bullet. It was people who are soldiers. For these people, they all must die. The entire Political Machine of hamas In Gaza. If they dont, theyre going to come up again in two years and look whats happening in hezbollah. And look whats happening with the houthis. Theyre taking oil is all because we stopped our Oil Sales to the world, and we let iran sell it at a high price. And this is why all of these proxies have money from iran. When is america going to go and say, whoop, whoop for global warming . We turned off the gas and now look what were doing for the world. When are we going to you talk about when we first started speaking, you said you didnt think that they would kill an american. Should americans should americans be worried . Yes, 100 . Because if america if you can take a hostage and hold it for 11 months and get killed and theres no repercussions, whats to stop somebody from doing it in kazakhstan . Whats to stop it from somebody whos right now in yemen . And the best thing the State Department is going to go and say, get out, get out. What happens if theyre working with the World Health Organization and theyre helping people from the children from dying in yemen right now or the sudan, and all of a sudden, oh, i can take an american doctor. No ones going to. What are you going to do . What are you going to do . Youre going to go and you scream at me, but again, listen to what were saying. Hamas is not hamas is not even at the table. Its america saying to israel, were going to do this. Were going to do that. Youre going to do this, youre going to do that and hope hamas falls in line. Excuse me. Who you negotiating America For . Who hamas should be sitting there. And the second theyre sitting there, you go and say, okay, we got you next. I dont understand the weakness. Im scared for our country because weve just gone and gotten some hostages back and gave 5 Billion to iran. 5 Billion to iran. Iran is marching towards a nuclear bomb. Imagine, god forbid, just a month ago, we saw 300 rockets shot at israel. Imagine if those 300 had a little bit of a nuclear warhead on it. Even if you exploded in the air, you would have killed hundreds, if not thousands of jordanians because of the nuclear and the destruction that would do with the radiation. And we just sit back. Everything is okay, america. Its not about if. Its not about abortion today, its about your safety. And we allow people into our country. We jewish people are seeing it in front online. Were being harassed, not just in College Campuses everywhere. And thats going to come after the jewish people. You know, they come after everybody else because look what they do. They wouldnt take anybody. Yeah god has to literally bless our country with fortitude, with strength and realization. We cant coddle arabs. Muslims who are our enemies. Look at the abraham accords. They stand with us. They stand with israel. Theyre not getting involved. But the enemy. We cannot coddle. It never worked. Ive got one more. Ive got one more question for you, its in regard to the families of these hostages getting mad at Benjamin Netanyahu, saying that he abandoned the hostages. Is this netanyahus fault not netanyahus fault . But i understand where theyre coming from. Id also be hurt. Bring my baby home. But then again, theres a very important jewish law. Are you allowed to trade one Persons Blood for another Persons Blood . If i stopped the war right now, and i bring out your child, you know, in two years, were back fighting because someone elses blood will be spilled. So the question is, do you trade one person for another person to die . Two years from now, hamas has kept coming after us after every Cease Fire. And this is an emotional moral question that every leader has to struggle with. Bibi netanyahu is doing whats best for his whole country. The 8 Million that live there, not just the people who are being held hostage and their families. Yeah okay. Rabbi mintz, thank you so much for your time and your words tonight. We appreciate it. Joining us now is rich goldberg, Senior Adviser at the foundation for defense of democracies. Rich, thanks for being with us and coming on this morning, you know, just your initial thoughts on this information that weve gotten, especially in the last couple of minutes. Now we have all the names of those people who were found under that tunnel In Gaza. Yeah, just two things. One, just the Humanity Statement as an american, as a jewish american and somebody from chicago, the news On Hersh is devastating to people around the united states. Whether youre jewish or not. This is an American Citizen who was taken hostage on october seventh and has been brutally murdered in captivity. There are a lot of people who are touched by this in the united states, families around the chicago area, a lot of close connections, other areas of the country as well, where he has relatives, a lot of people grieving, a lot of Jewish Americans tonight who feel like this could have been their brother, their son, their relative, and truly heartbreaking. So many friends of mine calling me in tears, and i and i hope for those who are not jewish in america, still a feeling of outrage that a Terrorist Organization of this brutality could feel, that it can murder somebody who carries an american passport in Cold Blood after taking them hostage. That thats the humanity piece, the policy and the strategic piece. Equally important. Where are we today . Where have we been now . Almost 11 months in from october seventh. We do not treat the sponsors of hamas like a State Sponsors of terrorism. We today have kid gloves on iran, Sanctions Relief flowing to the regime. We allow their oil to flow to china almost without any interruption. We provide Sanctions Relief through waivers from the biden administration. 10 Billion to give them some budget relief. The qataris designated during this administration as a major nonnato Ally Today retain that status. We laud them and applaud them for being intermediaries with hamas. For the last almost 11 months. Well guess what . Doha qatar an american has died in captivity. He has been murdered in captivity, not just died. Thats on your head. Thats on the qataris. Our supposed friends who are brokering a deal. The egyptians, who weve now found hundreds of tunnels going between Egypt And Gaza through that rafah border, the philadelphia corridor, where the Idf Today stands and is at issue here in the Cease Fire talks. What repercussions have we had for cairo for clearly being complicit in Hamass Rise and Reign Of Terror on israel . Lebanon, where hamas has a base of operations and a cell, a War Room where it houses with hezbollah, with Islamic Jihad, with irans revolutionary Guard Corps and turkey, a nato ally, a nato ally, where just in the last couple of days, one of the leaders of hamas stood pledging more Destruction And Death for israel in an open speech, khalid mashaal, how is this possible . How have we done nothing in 11 months to hold all of these State Sponsors of hamas responsible and accountable . We could have sanctions, we could seize assets, we could remove different designations that provide benefits to these countries. We could hold up foreign assistance to the countries that receive them. Weve done nothing. Weve praised them. Weve used them and respected them as intermediaries in supposed Hostage Negotiations with a brutal Terrorist Organization, which we should not be legitimizing. So tonight, i think we should be taking stock of where we are, what our strategy is. There are going to be voices that want to double down on a failed strategy of pressuring israel to make more concessions. And if youre a Family Member of a hostage, i understand where youre coming from because you cant reach the iranians, you cant reach the qataris, you cant reach the egyptians. You can only reach the israelis. A democracy. You can go into the streets and Pressure Israel to Cave And Surrender to hamass demands. That is not a good idea for israels long term National Security. We, however, have the perspective to say we should hold their sponsors accountable, and we should give israel every latitude to go after these leaders to root out their terrorist infrastructure. And by god, Go On offense against the iran terror axis. Whether its in tehran, in beirut, in yemen, in Iraq And Syria, in the West Bank, or certainly In Gaza, one last point. We need to learn a little bit more about what the facts are of this case and where the bodies were found and what the circumstances were. We understand from President Bidens statement the bodies were found in a tunnel in rafah. This is the southernmost city on the border of egypt. I actually just got that information. Im glad you brought that up, because i just got that information. An idf spokesperson, daniel hagar, in a briefing said the hostages were held in a Tunnel 20m deep, which is less than a mile from the place kade foreign alqadi was found alive last week. They were shot by their captors a short time before the idf troops arrived. Your thoughts on that . Well, its completely outrageous. It is. It is a horrific thing to think about that there is clearly a Standing Order that, as israel is collapsing on hamas, that in order to ensure that they dont get their people back, that they dont get the hostages back, that they killed the hostages, rather than allow them to be rescued. That is how evil this Terrorist Organization is. Its instructive. Instructive to me. On twofold number one, remember, rafah is the area where israel wanted to go in many months ago but was under significant pressure from the biden administration not to go into rafah. Why, why, why was there so much Vice President harris gave an interview months ago. She saw the map, she studied the maps, and you couldnt go into rafah. I do wonder whether that was a real strategic mistake by the israelis not to go into rafah. A lot sooner, number one. Number two, i think we actually need to consider the fact that hamas is not long for this world, that the israelis are collapsing on the remaining elements of hamas In Gaza, alongside its ongoing operation now in the West Bank, that if the walls are closing in on yahya sinwar, the leader of hamas today, its Military LeaderIn Gaza, is he giving a Standing Order to kill hostages because the walls are closing in so much and that now puts into real stark relief the choice in front of the israelis. Do you capitulate to hamas in its 11th Hour, when you have almost destroyed the organization . If it is going to be killing more hostages, or is there a potential to actually use that military Force And Pressure on its sponsors to get them to surrender . This is a Devils Choice. Its the Devils Choice that hamas invented when they took the hostages. I would not want to be the leader of israel, Benjamin Netanyahu. I would not want to be in the decision making because of how emotional and heartbreaking this is for every israeli. Because as your last commentator talked about, you have the prospect of reopening gaza for business, for hamas, if you surrender to their terms. And at the same time, how do you face the families and say, we could have surrendered to their terms and brought your Loved Ones home . Maybe. But we couldnt do that because it would have cost more lives in the long term. These are tough moral, ethical problems to have to have to deal with, and theyre emotional. But when you zoom out, what can we do as americans . We can put a lot of pressure on their sponsors. We havent done that. We can give israel more support to do what it thinks it needs to do to go after hamas and try to get its people back. We havent done that. Lets try something different than what weve done the last 11 months, which hasnt been working. And, you know, were still waiting for a statement from Kamala Harris. It hasnt come out yet, but she should release a statement, as should Donald Trump as they are running for president of this country. But going back to harris, she was a part, you know, she is a part of the biden harris administration. And what she brought up was quite interesting about the pressure from the biden administration, not to go into this area. And now all of this has transpired. Does this make you nervous . If we were to have a Kamala Harris as president of the united states, that this would just get worse and nothing would be done . Well, i think its important to reflect on the facts and the reality of the last few months. This administration did withhold weapons from israel and put enormous pressure on israel, started unleashing sanctions on israelis, started putting threatening of sanctions on the idf and certain units itself, started, you know, supporting antiisrael resolutions at the un in order to get them not to go into this area where these hostages were apparently being held and were murdered in rafah. And had they gone in that much sooner months ago to seal that border and to go after these tunnels, we dont know how this would have turned out. I do want to i hesitate in the criticism because i will say the strategy is wrong, and i have been against this strategy from the beginning. Then what is the right strategy . Wall street journal, October 31st saying hold hamas sponsors accountable to get more pressure to get the people out. But i think it is important, whether youre out there criticizing Benjamin Netanyahu for not surrendering to hamass terms or youre criticizing the biden administration for a strategy of pressuring israel rather than pressuring the iran axis, there is only one Party Tonight that is responsible for Murdering Hersh and the other hostages, and thats hamas, a Terrorist Organization. If we lose sight of that, if we lose perspective on who hamas is, we dont have good policy recommendations. Once you remember who they are, what theyre capable of, and what they will be capable of in the future, if you give them the ability to survive and rebuild, then i think that should help inform us what the right policy decisions are in front of us. You know, i asked Victoria Coates this earlier, if you were in charge of stopping this and getting a Cease Fire deal and a Hostage Release deal. What . I mean, where would you start with this . How would you how would you go about it . Number one, you stop Legitimizing Hamas as a negotiating partner. This is a Terrorist Organization. We wouldnt be having Negotiating Sessions in Doha And Cairo with isis or Al Qaeda or Osama Bin Laden. Its absolutely insane if they feel the pressure, if they want to surrender, if theyre going to capitulate, if they want a deal, they should come to the table. And there should be an all out Pressure Campaign and warfare against them and their leadership and their sponsors to make that happen. Number two, you dont legitimize their sponsors as true intermediaries, as negotiators, brokers of a deal. When the qataris came to us on October 8th and said, hey, weve been hosting hamas for years. Weve been giving them money for years. Were their ally in the muslim brotherhood. Let us help you broker a deal. When the egyptians come and said, no, no, no, weve been hiding from you all these tunnels to help hamas smuggle in weapons for years. We can help broker a deal. You dont say, great. We love you guys. What else can we do . Its like the Mobs Lawyer calling you up and negotiating the terms on behalf of their client. So the idea that weve been Empowering Hamas and its sponsors throughout this strategy needs to stop. Maximum pressure goes on, qatar goes on, egypt goes on. Turkey, which continues to host hamas, goes on lebanon, as i said, as well. And then, of course, at the top of the Food Chain is iran. Why are we in this mess . To begin with . We continue to have an accommodationist strategy towards iran. If you relieve pressure on iran, if you give them budget support, if you let them make more money, their terrorist proxies from hamas to hezbollah to Islamic Jihad, to the Houthis In Yemen and the militias in Iraq And Syria all have more money as well. Clamp down on the head of this octopus, of this terror axis, and you will see the results come through. And finally back up your ally. Dont signal pressure publicly. Dont say were trying to push israel into better terms for hamas to get a deal. You tell the israelis very publicly, whatever you need is on the way. There are American Citizens in harms way. There are American Citizens being held hostage. Americans are already massacred on October 7th. Whatever you need, you put all those things together. Youd be surprised what could happen. Do you think the hostages that are still there around 101 . A little over 100. Do you think theyre alive . Weve heard reports of about a third of those. At least are not alive anymore. Obviously, nothing has been confirmed, but these are based on public reports of leaks from intelligence assessments from the israelis. How many are alive today . We dont know. I think hamas clearly wants us to be talking about the possibility that they will kill hostages, as the israelis approach. We had heard this possibility. I think hamas had threatened this after the incredible Rescue Operation that the israelis had conducted. Remember, noah argaman, who had come back home and youve seen her in public . She was at the congress when Benjamin Netanyahu addressed the congress. There had been a statement put out to anybody holding a hostage. If the israelis are approaching, dont hesitate to kill the hostages. That was part of the psychological warfare at the time. We have to assess whether or not that is actually a Standing Order. Thats being honored. After what were learning tonight, and the israelis are going to have to take that into account as well. They want us to think about this. They want us to have this conversation. They want the israelis to have complete internal Strife And Chaos over this issue. Its why they took the hostages. This was their Insurance Card from the beginning to try to survive. The response from the israelis and the question now before israel, most importantly, is, will you give in to the terms in hamass 11th Hour that will allow hamas to rebuild into what they were on October Sixth . Or will you take the lessons of October 7th forward . How do you balance that with the risk to the hostages . How do you balance that with talking to a Family Member of a hostage to say, im sorry, we cannot withdraw our forces from the egyptian border and allow hamas to bring weapons back in and rebuild to what they were. That is not something i would ever envy in a leader right now. It is what is weighing on Benjamin And Netanyahu and the rest of the israeli cabinet. Its what you will see in the media in the context of an already convulsive israeli body politic. And were going to have to, as americans step back and understand that were seeing a lot of israeli politics in the news. In addition to what hamas is putting out in their disinformation. And all i would say is, in the end, its Israels Prerogative how theyre going to deal with this. Its their its they were attacked on October 7th. Theyre the ones who have most of their citizens held hostage. We as americans, however, still have eight americans, whether they are dead or alive in hamass hands. All eight of them need to come home, whether they are dead or alive. And if they are alive, we should be doing everything possible from our joint special Operations Command to anywhere else in the cia. Et cetera. Supporting the israelis to find them and get them hopefully alive. And those who are not alive get their bodies and bring them home to their Loved Ones. Otherwise, the passport that you are issued as a united States Citizen doesnt mean very much. All right, rich goldberg, thank you. And stay with us. Hang tight. Were probably going to be coming back to you, but we appreciate your time for now. Well come back to you here in just a little bit. For more, were going to go now to Heritage Foundation national Security Vice PresidentVictoria Coates. Victoria, thanks for coming back on with us. You know, we just got a response from Kamala Harriss office regarding this. Im going to read this and well talk about it, it more or less has the same intro of what President Biden said about what happened to this 23 year Old American who was found, and then it goes on to say hamas is an evil Terrorist Organization with these murders. Hamas is even more american blood on its hands. I strongly condemn hamas continued brutality, and so must the entire world from its massacre of 1200 people to sexual violence, taking of hostages in these murders, Hamas Depravity is evident and horrifying. The threat hamas poses to the people of israel and the American Citizens in israel must be eliminated, and hamas cannot control gaza. The palestinian people, too, have suffered under Hamass Rule for nearly two decades as Vice President , i have no higher priority than the safety of American Citizens wherever they are in the world, President Biden and i will never waver in our commitment to free The Americans, and all of those held hostage In Gaza, she said something that stuck out. I have no higher priority than the safety of American Citizens wherever they are in the world. Do you think that means here On American Soil, should we be concerned . Well, i mean, i think absolutely i think we should be very concerned about whats here On American Soil thats been left open from our southern border, from what weve seen on all of our american campuses, for All Of Us who have kids, who have gone to school over the last couple of weeks, weve seen these disgusting outbreaks of antisemitism and prohamas, demonstrations. This is in support of the group that killed hirsch. Hirsch goldberg. I mean, this is disgraceful. This is absolutely unacceptable On American Soil. And so while were seeing this as absolutely an issue in israel and in The Middle East, this is also an issue here at home and, you know, i think all americans have to be questioning, you know, these institutions of higher education that are teaching our children that its okay to hate jews. Its okay to support hamas. This is this is just outrageous. And so i think this is on top of what rich just said, all of which is completely correct. In terms of whats happening in israel. This is whats happening here in america. And thats why this matters here at home. You know, rich and i were talking and he said that hamas, theyre still publicly calling for death. I mean, i mean, they are theyre not making no theyre making no bones about this. They dont care whos listening. They hope people are listening. And when you talk about Ceasefire Talks and releasing these hostages, and then you hear things like this from hamas, it seems like the only people not in the Negotiation Room is hamas, which is a huge, huge problem at ending this war. So whats it going to take to get them to come on board . And i mean, is it ever going to happen . No. What they need to hear from the united states. And unfortunately, i dont think youre going to hear it from the Bidenharris Administration. Youre going to have to hear it from a future trump administration. Is the united states simply is not going to stand for this. If you take a citizen of ours like goldberg and you blow off his arm at a Music Festival and you drag him into gaza and you keep him for 250 days, and then you shoot him in the back of the head. Guess what . We dont stand for that. Were going to come in and were going to make you pay. We are. You are not someone were negotiating with. Youre not somebody we want to reward with a state. You are somebody who is our enemy because you killed our child. And i think if we take that stance, which is similar to the stance that former President Trump took during his first term, you know, you will have the whole arab World Fall in line. Nobody is going out there and speaking out in support of hamas in all of this. Everybody is trying to get the situation resolved and what that means is israel has to win this and america has to stop playing a double game. Yeah, they need to pick sides. They need to pick a side. Because this Middle Of The Road is not working. And people, not only israelis but palestinians both. Theres a lot of people losing their lives over this, you know, the biden administration, they withheld weapons from israel. Do you think that has anything to do with, pushing this, these deals back at all . Well, what i would say about the palestinians, i mean, having talked to a lot of palestinians, having spent some time in the palestinian territories, i would just say, you know, this is not in their interest, but i havent seen any palestinians coming out in the streets of gaza, gaza, you know, protesting for the release of the hostages. I havent seen any palestinians claiming this is a bad thing. What im seeing is a lot of palestinians in the streets of the united states. I mean, demonstrating for the state from the river to the sea. So i mean, i think they need to realize that for the palestinians to get to a better place, they have to realize israel won. They have won every Military Engagement since 1948. So this is over in terms of a conflict. And they can sue for terms. We can figure out what those are and perhaps they can get to a better way of life. No one, nothing would make me happier. Im sure nothing would make the israelis happier. But right now, what were in is a cycle of violence. And if we keep it going with some kind of crazy ceasefire that will allow hamas to stay in place, were just going to be back here again. Yeah, that seems to be the sentiment tonight of the guests and what they say, but i want to go back to talking about the biden Administrations Administration withholding those weapons. You know, they didnt want israel to go into rafah, which is where these tunnels are going in and out and where these, hostages were being held. Why why, why were they so Hell Bent on not wanting them to go in there . No, its mind bending. I by your ally, when there is a shooting war, which is what israel is in right now. And we saw this in 2014, in the gaza war, when John Kerry tried to slow walk of javelins and some other arms to the israelis in that particular round, which made them stand down. And then we just kept going back into the rinse, Repeat Cycle of hamas acting up out of gaza. And so now if you do this, if you allow there to be daylight between the united states and israel, it just it results in more violence. And this is whats just Mind Boggling to me about this Administrations Approach and the other thing thats deeply troubling is so many members of this administration are compromised by the iranians, and this is going back to richs excellent points in your previous segment, which is all of this goes back to iran. And so if you have somebody like Rob Malley whos still technically a member of the administration, even though hes been on unpaid leave, you have someone like phil gordon, whos the national Security Advisor to Vice President harris, who is under investigation now by Senator Cotton for his ties to iran. You know how can we Go On with these people in charge and actually expect that were going to effectively support israel . Well, you know, not only that, victoria, but, you know, Rabbi Mintz was saying his exact words. He said, hamas desires death. You know, my fear would be just because they agree to something doesnt mean that theyre going to stick to it. They clearly do not value human life. Whether its american, israeli, they dont care. Oh, no, no, not at all. And so thats the whole point, though, is unless you defeat hamas, unless you arrive at a place where hamas says we have lost and we will sue for terms the way you would with the normal, normal military conflict. You know, were just going to be going through this same cycle again and again and again and by defeat hamas, you mean completely eradicate hama . Well, destroy their ability to mount a Military Effort against israel. Okay. Victoria coates, thank you. So much for your time. We appreciate it. Joining us now is democratic strategist julian epstein. Julian, thanks for being on with us early this morning. Your thoughts and response to what has transpired and the fact that they have found this americans body in the tunnel and in rafah. Well, i think, first of all, our hearts go out to the family of the goldbergs. This is horrifying news. And i think the country mourns the loss. He was a lovely young man. The parents spoke beautifully at the democratic convention, and i think thats our first thought. I think, secondly, you know, as a democrat, i think this looks very bad for the biden administration. Im sorry to say. I think a lot of the problems were seeing in terms of not moving to a resolution have to do with the appeasement of iran. You know, the problem, the problem with the west in understanding what is going on In Gaza and in The Middle East is that the west does not have a vocabulary to understand whats happening. There is no Foreign Policy in a meaningful sense. Theres just domestic politics masquerading as a Foreign Policy. What people have to understand is hamas and hezbollah could give a about the palestinian issue. They have said, i mean, to your last question on your previous guest, that they love death. They have said very clearly that we love death more than israelis love life. And we will fight. We will fight for the destruction of israel to the last arab. They, hamas and Hezbollahs Strategy contemplates the destruction of gaza and the destruction of southern lebanon. I mean, ask yourself the question which i rarely hear her ask in the west why is it that there are no Bomb SheltersIn Gaza . There are no Bomb Shelters because hamas and sinwar himself have said that their war, the aim of the war is in part the destruction of palestinian lives, because the cost to israel is very high for that. So hamas contemplates the protection of itself with the tunnels. But the destruction and the death of palestinian civilians, who they hide behind. So, you know, and the and the, the leadership that the Palestinian Authority and the hamas since 1997 have rejected offer after offer after offer for two states they are not interested in two states. This is about one thing. This is about a racist, ethno nationalist ideology, a like ideology in the mideast that is sponsored by iran, who seeks a ethno nationalist caliphate throughout the mideast and really throughout the world. That is the most repressive, racist, antiwoman, antiminority, antigay antieverything other than them that you can imagine. So you asked your previous guest, well, you know, how do we get this question resolved . Well, war is about winning the escalation ladder. If youre not willing to win the escalation ladder, you will not prevail in a conflict. And it wasnt just about the biden administration holding up weapons in places to israel. When israel was contemplating going into rafah, it was the constant back channeling where the biden administration and the west was making it clear that they were allergic to escalation. Well, if you dont escalate on your terms, then you can be sure iran, who is not interested in a peace deal, it is not interested in a two state solution. It wants the destruction of israel. If you dont escalate on your terms, you can be 100 sure that iran will escalate on their terms. Hezbollah and hamas are iranian