court building here in washington. as we await some of the biggest decisions on the term on presidential immunity and abortion will take a deep dive into the cases and take a look at why there is such partisan heat on the high court. i am shannon bream this is a special edition of "fox news sunday" at live at the supreme court. it ♪ >> the supreme court has never been us out of kilter as it is today. i mean never. >> are setting up to got american democracy toward the end of the season. >> there and they're trying to make much to do about nothing but. >> the bottom line is i do not like a lead out. they do not like thomas a jat conservative justices. shannon: democrats target the supreme court had the announcer the key opinions could have a seismic impact on the race for the white house. we'll get reaction from a top ally of president biden senator chris coons that leader public on the senate judiciary committee lindsey graham. then we are just four days away from a cnn presidential debate. president biden former president trump gearing up for the big nights. >> note is going to watch the debate on thursday night, right? send a pan on the key issues sure to make news at the head to head to show down from the border, to inflation, foreign policy to fitness for office. all right now on "fox news sunday." ♪ live at the supreme court. shannon: hello from outside the supreme court on capitol hill here in washington but every june it comes on to this. the final opinions from the supreme court as they prepare to wrap up the term judas are mostly just as landmark decisions fall many of them have changed the course of our country's future tomorrow for example the two-year anniversary of the dobbs decision that overturned the court's 1973 ruling in roe v wade the constitution does not guarantee a right to abortion setting the power to record the procedure back to lawmakers. this year it is possible with the court decides could alter the course of the 2024 presidential election. in a moment we'll talk with senators chris coons and lindsey graham both of the senate judiciary committee about that and much more first return to mike emanuel. >> the white house is closely watching for the next supreme court rulings vertically the decision over whether former president trump should have immunity from prosecution. mr. trump's chance a of having a pre-elective trial in d.c. depends on the court ruling it has been a busy week focused on preparing for thursday's cnn presidential debate against his predecessor donald trump. the work does not stop and plenty of problems continue to pile on his desk including the tightening relation between russia and north korea. the administration concerned of the show of force between a russian president vladimir putin unofficial visit to north korea to visit the isolated kim jong-un own. the visit to establish a stronger support system to share weapons between the two countries. also on the foreign policy front increase at tensions in prime minister benjamin netanyahu prince expected to address congress in washington at the end of next month. while the u.s. continues to support israel publicly, behind the scenes the relationship is reportedly frayed. to the southern border, now president bided announcing another executive action which will make it easier for undocumented spouses of american citizens to apply for a permanent residency without leaving the country. certainly not all people crossing the border pose problems, authorities recently charged to illegal immigrants with the killing of jocelyn and texas. she was 12 years old and her family is devastated. rachel and my maryland mother of five was killed last august authorities recently charged illegal immigrant for the crime. the white house expressed condolences but critics say it is not enough for the administration has been far too soft on the border. shannon: mike emanuel thank you so much for delaware senator chris coons assist on the foreign relations a judiciary committee as cochair president biden's reelection campaign will come back to "fox news sunday," senator. >> thanks great to be home at the airport we had reporting on the border so let's start there days ago the president took executive action this time in order that will essentially give people a pathway to citizenship you have been here for years illegally. they will be able to stay in the u.s. and not have to leave the federation for american immigrant reform says this parole in place a is a concept created out of thin air parole authorize a government to permit the entry of aliens into the united states for a temporary periods of time on a case-by-case basis for urgent humanitarian reasons or significant public benefit. it was not intended abuse to grant because that legal status to illegal aliens already in the country. rather than enforcing existing laws why is the president creating another executive order another pathway but not only rewards people bring here illegally for years potentially hundreds of thousands of them that may attract even more. correct president biden's recently signed two executive orders on the border and immigration for the one you just refer to allow those who've been here more than 10 years and are married to u.s. citizens a pathway toward a green card. this follows a program that existed in the form president trump members of the u.s. military who have someone who is here without documentation but is married to a member of our armed services to get a green card. the other executive order president biden signed strengthens border enforcement makes it harder for those coming to our southern border to seek asylum. imbalance we've already seen the number of encounters of the border go down as a result. the stronger more effective action to address border security and our broken immigraand a brokenimmigration l legislation passed by congress. be more permanent. tbring more resources that actually solve the problem my friend conservative republican senator james lankford and several other senators murphy and sinema put forward a bipartisan deal that would have done that a few months ago. it was not signed into law only because former president trump campaigned heavily against at it the day before we took it up for the former president once an issue for the election. president biden is trying to solve this problem for our country. shannon: for silver republicans at a number of objections to what they saw coming out of that bipartisan negotiation they likely would not many of them have voted for anyway. you'll have the president coming in on day one repealing numerous executive orders some paralleling what he is doing now trying to fix the situation arnie fournew foxy polling showf people disapprove of how it's doing on immigration when they are asked head to head with president trump they give president trump a nine-point advantage on that. we are seeing records a number of people showing up a report and crimes involving rape, murder, kidnapping all kinds of things that would not have happened absent people being in this country illegally so they could commit those crimes. i want to play something from democrat westmore the democrat of american one of his constituents, rachel was killed the suspect is a mother of five my son when you came here illegally that it's got to play out but here's what he saying in the meantime. >> i am infuriated. and our state is still mourning people think about the border crisis they think this is only impacting a handful of states in our state were this brutal murder happened its 1800 miles away from the border. >> yet every state is now a border state. how does the buck not stop with the president on this issue? >> shannon, president biden's state of the union address this year extended his hand to former president trump and said instead of blocking legislation instead of campaigning against legislation that i believe would have passed if you had gotten to the floor, or work with me. let solve this problem but let's put down the tools and find a lasting solution. there was a bipartisan solution ready for us to take up. plexus would not have stop these people are number of these recent cases. >> both sides are ready to vote for that deal after months of hard work crafting a real bipartisan solution. shannon: it would have allowed thousands of people in this country where they showed up and weren't let in because of detention issues which we know they're empty i sent beds but we know there are problems of funding. also the seat bp one app would have allowed these folks in. we talk about recent crimes and gosh we have a list apart they are tragic. no one wants them to happen that legislation would not have stopped those people from coming into this country. >> you cannot assume every person seeking asylum in this country is going to commit a crime, it shannon. shannon: correct it only matters that it is one when it is in american life. >> was your question, shannon? >> the question is when a vast majority people coming are simply seeking a better life or asylum from a dangerous situation at home. because the situation become so poor is at the board it does allow for bad actors weather is five or 10 or 15 these are american lives had been devastated because of them being able to manipulate and leverage the system as it now exists. >> i agree. shannon, we need to get control of our board i hope folks will pay attention to what the former president has said and done on a law enforcement. he called for defining the fbi it is the fbi that is enforcing federal laws. in this helping make our country safer seen a significant drop in crime under president biden who has invested in law enforcement nationally the american rescue plan funded federal, state, local law enforcement record levels. as folks look at who is a better position to keep us safe going forward i hope folks will not overlook former president trump incited a riot at the capitol on january 6. or at law enforcement officer protect all of us in the capitol every day were assaulted. he is a convicted felon. i think that stands in sharp contrast to president biden's defense of the role of law. and the agenda he is putting forward to strengthen our law enforcement and a border security. shannon: that is a hole of the show. listen were going to get to some of that later because we are talking at cases here at the supreme court that involves generally six defendants who most good people think if you assault and law enforcement officer that is a crime. i may talk to about what else was coming from the court is sit on the judiciary committee we have great interest as all americans do on what is happening here there's been price from the administration on things like the decision the abortion drug leaving that on the mark of the justices did that. and also eight -- one decision this week thing if you're under domestic violence or you should not have access to a gun. but at the same time the president will brag at things like defying the supreme court who told him he could not forgive the billions of dollars in student loans. talk about law and order, will this president respect what comes of this court with respect to presidential immunity with respect to generally six or does he pick and choose the decisions he likes in the supreme court? >> there is a sharp contrast supreme former president trump and president biden in terms of their respect for the rule of law and how they approach both law enforcement and our legal system. former president trump was in a courtroom in new york where he attacked the prosecutor, the prosecution, the judge, the jury, the whole process so many times before is ultimately convicted by a jury of his peers of 34 felonies he was subject to a gag order. president biden which is some evidence of this, this past week his own son was convicted here in a court in wilmington, delaware he does not ever attack or criticize or question the judge, the prosecutor, the jury, the process of. shannon: but centered he has exactly. >> is a sharp and clear contrast how they respect the rule of law. >> he has her peel he attacked the supreme court he has said he do not care they set on student loans. >> look, i have raised questions as of many of us in the senate about the lack of abiding code of ethics for the supreme court. one of the justices, justice thomas has accepted millions of dollars of unreported gifts of travel and hospitality over many years. it is the only court and the only group of federal judges or justices who have no binding court code of ethics. we recently tried to pass to the senate the supreme court ethics recusal and transparency act it was blocked by maroon republican colleagues. every other federal judge in our country is abiding code of ethics out of the senate, so does the house. the supreme court should as well. shannon: senator i'll ask our next guest about that workaholic lindsey graham on the judiciary committee and ranking member as well. i do know they do have guidelines, filings ethics and other is all mine didn't sign the g guys over this and all nine of these justices but the debate over the ethics legislation will continue will talk about that was senator graham thank you very much appreciate your time. >> thank you, shannon. >> army life south carolina senator lindsey graham and ranking member of the senate judiciary committee but let's start there, should there be a more binding more concrete ethics code for the supreme court? what's the worst thing to happy's united states senate and the house to determine what cases the supreme court hears. the bill he talked about was killed on the floor of the senate it would allow lower court judges to determine what a supreme court justice should be recused it was a constitutional overreach. they are trying to micro manage the roberts court they are trying to destroy alito and thomas they do not like the fact they are conservative judges. i like chris but in his world the people over there are part of a political team that when democrats fail at the ballot box people over there we'll fix the problem from a liberal perspective. donald trump change the court. they are squealing like stuck pigs because the supreme court no longer is a political body is actually looking at the constitution and making constitutionally sound decisions versus political decisions. that is the problem the liberals have of the court. shannon: that president blasted them a couple days ago this fundraiser said they're completely out of kilter a lot say that as a winning argument for him jennifer rubin at the "washington post" the more focus of the supreme court the better for democrats the court is a broken, unpopular and is in dire need of reform biden knows that shipment court reform a key campaign issue but he even suggested in the remarks to court is thinking about making ibf illegal or taking away protections for ivf? >> if democrats cannot convince you there is something bad and wrong with the court they are going to lose because most americans believe they are not safer under president biden done they were trumpeting chris coons, a dear friend said there is a good case to beat made you are safer today than you were when president trump was president but if you believe that you should not be allowed to drive. that is silly bird that is dangerously wrong. the border is beyond broken your wars in ukraine had that mid east on fire. when it comes to enforcing the law, joe biden has been beyond reckless he has taken april statute that's limited in nature and is given a million people per roll went on average trump in biden's administration gave 5600 people parole lake and riley's murderer was paroled because they have lack of capacity in el paso they let him out in her under the parole ste because they were full there's nothing in the statute that says you can go because they are full and he killed this lady. on and on and on. all this would haven't raped and murdered have one thing in common the people that killed him, rate them and murdered them were in our custody and let go i think illegally so joe biden better hope and pray there's presidential immunity because when he allowed the killer of a lake and riley to be released on parole because lack of capacity i think he is subject only t noy to a lawsuit but criminal prosecution if there's not presidential immunity. we talked about senator coons as a small number people. most of our coming here they want a better life. they went opportunity. aclu praising the latest move by the president allowing people marry to americans it is said to set polithis all keeps committeg families together and strengthens all of our communities it's popular with voters that's why the present is a type of humane and commonsense action that is made in america stronger the vice presidents have the same thing they want to keep families. >> aclu point of view that is your from the average american's point of view it biden did is a disaster he took a can of gasoline imported on the fire he unilaterally gave 500,000 people legal status: it parole in place. there is nothing in our law he is the most lawless and president ever on immigration, biden is is nothing called parole in place there is nothing in our law that allows him to forgive student loans if you're out there working and did not go to college joe biden's forgiving student loans an that you are paying for them. this is beyond a lawless and beyond dangerous. the idea is spreading around the world biden just gave amnesty illegally to half a million people maybe i should keep coming. the reason the border is broken is a biden chose to overturn every policy trump pad. where the most secure border in december of 2020 the most lawless border now because of policy changes by biden and it's not a small deal it is a big deal the largest number people on the terrorist watch list came in last year only to be exceeded this year. i have never been more worried about 911 than i am now originating from a broken border started by a terrible decision to withdraw in afghanistan. the world is on fire, folks biden is not going to fix it. shannon: why haven't you guys fix it right here on the capitol you know the problem there's agree there's a problem for christian who i am i was in a gang of eight. the bill they introduced was a joke when it came to parole. biden has paroled a million people in this country illegally in my view. trump an obama presidency 5600 people parole based on two limited factors. the bill had nothing to do with parole it allowed 5000 people a day to come. that just incentivizes more illegal immigration. the border was secure. the wall was almost finished and joe biden issued 96 executives orders changing remained in mexico, folks the reason we're e overrun now is because of the policy choices of joe biden. he could fix this without any congressional action. he chooses not to because he is an open borders president. shannon: i will say for the right read your front center at lankford once you have 5000 a 5e can think closes down nobody after that you guys can debate that. >> 4999 every day. >> is talk about foreign policy there is a lot brewing between the white house and prime minister netanyahu head of his speech come here and capitol political reports this, headline no one knows what he's going to say it white house the fears are mounting about his visit right-center chris murphy said he is only about himself that would have come here and criticize our american president for not supporting them enough. have been very public about that. should you welcome a foreign leader to come speak on that floor of the house you know possibly going to go after our sitting president? >> 's is not just a foreign leader it's the leader of israel our best friend in the region in one of our best friends in the world israel is surrounded by islamic extremists who want to cut their throats literally and here's what you need to understand for all of those people want to kill israel, wanting kill you hamas, has bill and i run i will welcome him here here's what bothers me the most slow walking weapons to israel makes the work on longer. we need to be all in and helping as would give them the weapons they need to win a war they cannot afford to lose. hamas said they'll keep doing it again and again and again until they destroy i believe hamas the great stay tuned is iran said the administration's tried use of weapons in ukraine and israel to micromanage wars. they tried to give ukraine just enough to stay in the fight but not too and they've been slow in artillery. slow on f-16 slow on tanks now they are slow with israel but i got a call a few minutes ago the israelis say they see some progress but i promise you this, when we come back there'll be oversight on the weapons delivery systems to israel. congress has voted in a bipartisan weight to give israel the bombs and missiles they need to win a war they cannot afford to lose. we'll be looking over biden shoulder to see if he is honoring the commitments made by congress. the facts were having this debate emboldens hamas the fact will not sanction international criminal court for charging the israeli prime minister and defense minister as war criminals is outrageous every time biden does this put juices up the terrorists they see it as a separation between israel and the united states and makes a war go on longer and is aiding and abetting the enemy even though they don't want too. shannon: keep us updated on the phone call, senator. cap next we'll take a deep dive into the biggest thorniest cases of the supreme court that are coming this week within days of our expert legal panel is up next here on capitol hill. ♪ sleepy? headaches? dry skin? you're probably dehydrated. try liquid labs rapid hydration. it's packed with all five essential electrolytes. taste amazing and way less sugar than sports drinks? rehydrate and feel better with liquid labs. grab liquid labs in the walmart vitamin aisle today. - [narrator] life with ear ringing sounded like a constant train whistle i couldn't escape. then i started taking lipo flavonoid. with 60 years of clinical experience, it's the number one doctor recommended brand for ear ringing. and now i'm finally free. take back control with lipo flavonoid. shannon: coming to light from the supreme court 14 cases left to be decided the coming week on the top of a watch list is up decision not present trump's assertion he has immunity shielding them from criminal liability and special counsel case against him citing actions president trump took during the final days of his presidency. there's also a case involving a january 6 defendants. whether the justice department wrongly charged him under a specific obstruction statute that was also used two charge hundreds of other generally six defendants in president trump too. there's anothe an other abortios testing that boundaries of authority for federal agencies and came at the menu are joining me now to discuss the biggest week of their fox news contributor george washington university law professor jonathan turley print author of a brand-new book the indestructible right free speech and age of a rage. former principal deputy judgment good to see again. >> it is a field trip to all of the action is pointless or at the immunity case. they feel like it should've been delivered long ago. an opinion piece is that something is rotten about how long has taken the justices. for a myriad of reason including its willingness to act quickly in cases that benefit interest for they say there's something going on here but can't totally disagree with that. it looks quiet this morning is a beehive of activity on the marble walls to finish up immunity and the other key decisions we are waiting for her on the immunity decision the supreme court is going to be writing for the ages this is a case that's not going to resolve against president trump is going to be a rule of constitutional law that will affect all presidents going forward. they want to get it right and i for one am not going to fault them if they take an extra week or two weeks to make sure that it writes a thorough correct and accurate constitutionally sound opinion. shannon: you reference this statement he said we are writing a rule for the ages for that takes time too. >> it does people need to understand this is a critical line between the president and the rest of the world. particular congress and the courts. there are some issues still remaining in the constitution that are ambiguous. this is one of those the court is shying away from tackling this issue. date now have to bird that means i have to get it right. you heard from the justice on both sides of the spectrum, i thought was really serious effort to try to get it right. not that they agreed. unlike that media and the commentator says nine injustices had a civil and best discussions i've ever heard in the supreme court. they tried to probe what where this line is. none of the justices seemed that satisfied. let me put it this way the court as a whole did not feel satisfied with the extreme positions of either the trump team toward the lower court. they seem to be looking for something more nuanced. shannon: the whole conversations whether they gave the sweeping immunity the trump team would like. the worries about allowing someone to do anything without repercussions at all but sounds like they'll find some level of immunity and official acts to get some of that protection but that could take some time he could kick this thing back to the lower courts extending the whole case the other big one, there are many depending upon your opinion but generally six there's a dip and who brought its claims say in the obstruction statute they used was not right. it applied to hundreds of others but as part of the case against president trump. whoever corruptly obstructs, influencers or impedes any official proceeding or attempts to do so would be in prison. >> there is a huge amount at stake here. obstruction of official proceeding with the common denominator renter hundreds of cases for the department of justice is like a gambler in vegas it wou i would only bet o. this is the red chip, the red slot in relapse but if it is eliminate all bets are off. i think the court very well could and narrowed this for the underlying statute was designed after the enron case and the destruction of documents for the lower court the trial court set i don't think this is going to fit. the d.c. courts it is not close enough for us clearly the justices were having trouble with extending the law of this bar. if they narrow this interpretation not only knock out hundreds of criminal accounts it will knock out counts of pending against president trump. shannon: yes that jack smith brought tom and i have a favorite for that nerds and this thing there's talks about chevron deference what it does is give an enormous power to federal agencies where you could say these are the experts of the bureaucrats who know the subject matter best to make decisions have federal regulations impact everything from the car you drive, the phone use, the shampoo, how you use your land for the senate for american progress at this about that case. the sig six could not be higher. with civil rights, workers rights, education, environmental justice, just to name a few. >> for once i agree with the center for american progress this is an important fastening case. put your finger on it for this case that's fundamentally affect the balance of power in our government and in our society buper the question is if you hae a law with federal agency regulatory power at the law is ambiguous or open to debate who gets to save the law means? is it the federal bureaucrats or a judge most people would say it is a judgment in fact our nation's earliest famous constitutional law case marbury versus madison the supreme court said it's a power of the court to stay with the law is and i anticipate the united states supreme court and this case is going to reset that balance and in that situation it's the power of the court not the federal bureaucrats is have the law really means. >> you shall know as early as wednesday other federal cases playing out with the president. one jon with documents the storage and handling of these classified documents at more a lot of the judge there was appointed by president trump "new york times" had an interesting piece this week said when she was assigned the case there were other judges who went to her to sort of pressure her like you don't have the experience for this maybe should not take the case for the "new york times" said this they suggested she could be in over her head for mr. trucker both for. >> it's an outrageous hit piece against this judge. this newspaper would into vapors when anyone questioned the judge and his selection which was not random. he was put on that case and ended up a ruling heavily for the prosecution it weighs in many of us believe all reversible errors. and yet you have a piece in the "new york times" who is ruled on major issues against the trump team. and in my view of the thing that is most disturbing is a suggestion other judges may have spoken to the "new york times" to poison the well for their colleague. judge cannon has worked this case eat evenly she's made a number of decisions that go both ways. she has been an impressive judge on this. she is trying to get it right. this idea that because she is a trump appointee she is under suspicion is precisely what they criticize president trump for saying on judges in his cases. the hypocrisy is perfectly overwhelming. shannon: something tells me it will bug you guys a lot this week at the next opinion date palm and jonathan thank you very much meet up next inviting campaign for th both at the thus big presidential debate. our sunday panel join us for a sneak peek and react to brand-new fox poll some surprising results. guys, are you tired of frequent nighttime bathroom trips? well, force factor prostate helps reduce urges to urinate, plus fully empty your bladder, and promote a normal prostate size. don't settle. rush to walmart for force factor prostate, from the #1 fastest-growing men's health brand in america. ♪ ♪. shannon: a welcome back to our chauffeured special fox and send a live from the u.s. supreme court. now chad and program our senior congressional correspondent is joining us to talk about the tension that its existing on the hill right now with respect to the court and beyond. >> of a geography lesson for you first we are at the supreme court, the library of congress is over here by the u.s. capitals right over here for the capitol visitor center is underground for the library of congress and the capitol itself are connected underground by a tunnel. you know the supreme court used to meet inside the capitol until 1935. they moved across the street and that is a good thing because democrats right now are mad at the supreme court. democrats ask leading atta as cn conservative supreme court justices. >> justice alito is an insurrectionist sympathizer. joined by his right-wing buddy clarence thomas. >> accused justice clarence thomas and samuel alito a questionable ethics. thomas for traveling on a lavish getaways on the dimes of gop mega- donors. alito for controversy of flags flying at his homes. >> legacy of the roberts court will be one of un- check to corruption for. >> thomases lawyers at ethics rule do not require him to report such trips so long as donors do not have business before the court. alito said his wife flew the flags. republicans say the democrats complaints are camouflage for what really needles the left. >> that judge justices are making certain decisions requests one at democrat demands chief justice john roberts penalized justices. >> he can say justice alito no longer presides for circuit republicans appalled by the ultimatums. >> they want the supreme court to become subservient to the congress. republicans sae attacks are just politics. quiet is an election year the trying to make much to do about nothing for a quick democrats do not seem to disagree when it comes to an electoral strategy. >> democrats in an election after election after election since the fall of a row be weighed in 2022 are winning. >> democrats have three opponents this fall republicans, former president trump, and the supreme court. shannon: and our thanks to chad pergrchatter programmatically sa group joining us just down the hill for me back in the fox news washington bureau for usa today white house correspondent francesca chambers of a townhall.com editor fox news contributor katie tablets. founder of the faith and freedom coalition at ralph reed and 2025 campaign surrogate kevin wallingford hello guys hope you'hopeyou're enjoying the air conditioning. [applause] so by jaf glad to have you with. let's start here. there weren't some democrats who are worried about what president biden has to do he shows up on thursday at the cnn presidential debate. >> if biden goes out there and messes up, it is game over. i've he walks out there in a week later he's lower in the polls it's panic and the party. >> francesca if he shows up and has a good knife that could be a huge boost too. >> the biden campaign is already saying they do not expect there to be a major jump in the polls or in fact really at all in the near term for it they see this more as an opportunity to organize and get their support is engaged in this election. they are saying in a memo just this morning again when you have these two candidates who have already been a well defined they are the same two candidates who ran a last time much of the electorate is already locked in and it is a small group of voters were going to ultimately decide the selection. shannon: we know debate prep is different for the soup president biden at camp david with advisor spending days to get ready for this hour alexis mcadams reported for foxes with president trump last night on saturday and asked about debate prep he said this is it getting out, answering questions talkative but writers caution that may not be the best approach professional there's some risk in the less formal approach that biden has not debated in four years quote debating as a specific thing it does not really pay to just show up, ralph? or excessively do not disagree with that. it is a pretty uneven game because neither one of these candidates has debated in the last four years. biden did not have a primary. trump was so far ahead he made a decision not to participate in the primary debates. they are both in a situation where they did not get seasoned by primary debates but i can just tell you this, i was with the presiden president, meaning, former president trump yesterday who set our faith and freedom conference. this guy is in the zone. he is ready and by the way i expect joe biden to be ready. the idea he's not going to be able to get up for a moment this critical that's going to be a defining inflection point in this campaign and could well determine whether or not he's voted out of office or not, they are going to make sure he is ready and i think it's going to be game on for both of these candidates thursday night. shannon: it will be interesting if they go heavy on policy or personality. we know they're going to talk about character, fitness for office and all these things are new fox news pulling this week when we asked what is this year's presidential election mostly about? issues of who could do a better job or the policy was 59%. character and fitness to serve was 29% so kevin how should that factor into both sides look at going at this question rick we know they're going to be personal jabs these two will not be able to resist pickup. >> they certainly will be i'm hopeful it will be as substantial and sieve debate it's a different format than previous cycles with that mute button we talked about with the fact there is no audience. i certainly think both of these individuals will bring their a game. to row some point this is the first time they'v they'd been ie same space since the last debate four years ago. certainly is going to again focus on these issues for the timing of the supreme court decisions that you just talked about might weigh heavily in terms of the conversation on thursday night the fox news pulling shows a wind at the presidents assailed the fact he is now leading the former president by two-point the first time we have seen a pole where president biden is leading the former president since last october and more importantly he's leading with independence by nine points in that poll to francesca's point was so many people's minds made up those independence obey who actually makes the next president take office next january. shannon: a lot of goodness trending the presidents away as you said to him with a 50 -- 48-point lead head-to-head. when you look at these two matching up in nashville there are several key states we keep paying attention to their really going to make all the difference in pennsylvania's wall street journal talks about the fact there are an average of polls that give trump a slight edge there he is doing things like he did last time he went into philadelphia place very blue and not traditionally a place that will be a stronghold or waiting place for trump. we would guess it's probably going to be the same thing this time around but he is going to different constituencies and places that he thanks he could move some grout in the wall street journal piece they say this, cnn exit poll in 202092% of black pennsylvania voters pulled they voted for mr. trump only excuse me mr. biden only 7% reported they voted for mr. trump. this month's survey found the presence of black supporters fallen to 68% while the former presidents has more than tripled to 23% francesca how worrying is that for the white house? that polling we had in virginia a couple weeks ago as well showing triple black support for president trump this time around. >> a polling we have done at usa today of black voters and those battleground states what it does show is president biden is facing a potential problem of attrition that could make a difference for him. they are not necessarily going to go to trump at one of the problems he is facing as they could just stay home and the election altogether. he needs to get those voters re-energize and not just in those states but other state such as a georgia as well there'thereis major concern amos about black voters not showing up in the southern states in the sun belt. shannon: the right francesca and the panel thank you very much. stay there. cap next suspected killer of a maryland mom finally arrested authorities they entered the u.s. illegally last year. one of the recent crimes related to suspects who have all done the same thing, the tragedies fueling attacks on the presidents immigration policy our panel is going to debate that next. have you ever thought of getting a walk-in tub for you or someone you love? 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quick certainly is going to come up on thursday per each of these situations are horrific. i think secretary mayorkas said it perfectly we said these are criminal acts, they are disgusting and horrific and should be dealt with in the criminal justice system. but listen the fact senator coons talked about this initially in the conversation we had a bipartisan deal that would have surge resources for the president has deployed more agents to the border than any time in the history of this country. but we absolutely need immigration reform in congress is kick the ball down the field since the reagan administration on this issue. first we have executive action on june 5 from the president we have seen migrant encounters at the border down 20% because of that. again that's also been challenged in the court system executive orders do not have the weight of congress in congress needs to act. shannon: ralph is going to be a causal you have repeatedly used against republicans when there's a deal on the table they did not take it. >> yes i know the democrats and the biden campaign are desperate to try to shift the blame on this. you are the leader of the free world. when he walked off the west front of the capitol generate 20th of 2021, the first thing he did was sign executive orders repealing the key cornerstones of the trump immigration policy. he repealed or made in mexico. he repealed the asylum reforms. he put an end to the construction of the border barrier and wall and left it sitting there literally billions of dollars down a rat hole and the border wall that was being built sat there and arrested. they burned the money rather than finish the job that is how more concerned he was about playing politics and erasing trump's legacy then he was about protecting the american people he owns every one of these tragedies as a result. shannon: were out of time, kind of got to go thank you so much we'll see you next sunday. cap next i sai set off a retired supreme court justice stephen breyer he opens up about his nearly 30 years here on the highest court in the land. retired justice stephen breyer spent three decades on the supreme court waiting through many historic difficult cases. why i chose pragmatism not textualism. i sat down to talk about why he tackled the cases, the most challenging ones and whether he misses being on the bench. that is our sunday special. >> i think it is remarkable that you boil things down and away whether you are a lawyer not if you have any interest you will enjoy this book. what was the goal for you. >> i've been a judge 40 years. i think most people, they don't know what do we do, what is an appeals court judge, what does a supreme court judge do? i will on them to understand. i want them to see the different approaches people can take. i, of course, have my preferences. i would like to say enough about people that don't agree with me that they get a fair picture of that and they can make up their minds. >> do you worry about the hit that the supreme court has taken in recent years? do justices worry about that? or do you feel like we are doing our job? >> of course. of course you do. it takes you a few years. the first two years you are wandering around the place and wondering how did i ever get appointed. [laughter] can i really do this? i will tell you something, the applause wears off very fast. >> when it comes to issues that you feel are right as a justice and you will get a vote on cases that come before you, but their political before you, having a public impact, how tough is it to vote on whether or not you will hear that particular dispute. >> it depends on the case. when i was a law clerk i work for justice. 1964. ten years after brown. still, in my opinion, what that court was worried about and interested in was how would we get brown and forrest. can we? where will we get the help? not too much help outside the court. we want to get it enforced. you listen too much to popular opinion. you never listen and you don't know whether or not the laws will be enforced, you will have a rule of law. you say, what is the answer to that? this is not computer science. >> there is no formula. >> no. >> do you miss it at all? >> of course. of course. you know pretty well if you spend the time, which you should , which cases. what people have written. when you are a judge, you also have to take into account, how will that affect this now and how will it affect this in the future? you will not get a good answer and you will not be sure and you will just try to do your best. it is not something where there are clear answers and difficult cases and there are many difficult cases. >> ranks to justice breyer. tune into fox news democracy 24 special coverage of the special debate simulcast. fox news coverage begins thursday june 27 at 8:00 p.m. eastern in the cnn presidential debate will start at 9:00 p.m. eastern and write the audio file -- local fox affiliate i will join you for pregame at 8:30 p.m. eastern. that is it for us today. thank you for joining us ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪