Them. Im ayman mohyeldin, lets get started. Well, after years of wondering, this week we finally learn just how far mike pence is willing to go for donald trump, and what his eventual breaking point. It didnt come in 2016 when the access Hollywood Tape was released and trump was heard bragging about sexually assaulting women. Pence stood by his despite even trump acknowledging that, quote, mother is not going to like this. It wasnt when trump called the neo nazis pence even defended trump when he called haitian and african nations shole countries. The deeply religious mike pence even had trumps back when details of his affair with porn star Stormy Daniels came to light. After years of putting up with trump, it seems that pence had finally had enough, and issued a rebuke of his former boss this week. I heard this week that President Trump said i had the right to overturn the election. President trump is wrong. I had no right to overturn the election. The presidency belongs to the American People and the American People alone. And frankly, there is no idea more unamerican than the notion that any one person could choose the american president. Under the constitution i had no right to change the outcome of our election. Well said, mike, well said. By ive got to ask you, what took you so long . Trump has been pushing this bogus theory the Vice President could have rejected the results of the election for well over a year now, its a theory that pence first rejected actually on january 6th, 2021 with his actions. Thats when he refused to go along with trumps plan, and when it mattered the most. So believe me, the last thing im looking to do here is give mike pence extra credit for realizing he doesnt have to take trumps crap anymore. But, this was a revealing week in terms of how far people are willing to go for trump, both on an individual level, and a group level. And let me explain why. New reporting from the New York Times this week, that was more involved than previously known, suggests that trump was involved, any plan to have the military seize Voting Machines around the country. Heres the part that really jumped out at me. If youre not sitting down right now, ive got to be honest with you, youre probably going to want to take a seat. Because the plan was shot down by none other than Rudy Giuliani. Now, again, lets pump the brakes on giving rudy too much, or honestly any credit here. This particular plan had been put forward by Sidney Powell, rudys chief rival for the spot of trumps craziest lawyer. After shooting it down giuliani then tried to have the department of Homeland Security do the same thing, that avenue would get blocked by Another Trump Loyalist when acting dhs deputy secretary Ken Cuccinelli told giuliani the department of Homeland Security officials wouldnt help him out. Attorney general bill barr himself at one point a member of trumps riot or die crew had also shot down a similar plan to have the Justice Department get involved in overturning the election. Now, while the results of the 2020 election wouldnt be overthrown by these individual individuals, excuse me, the broader Republican Party is continuing to make it clear that they are all in on trump and the insurrection. Just look what happened yesterday. Friday, the Republican National Committee Approved a resolution, censuring representatives liz cheney and Adam Kinzinger for their participation in the january 6th select committee. But theres one particular section of the resolution that i think is so important to call out. They write this. Representatives cheney and kinzinger are participating in a democratled persecution of ordinary citizens, engaged in legitimate political discourse. Think about that. The gop is now all about explicitly saying that they are all for the january 6th coup in this country. So while its notable that the scales may have finally fallen from the eyes of people like mike pence and other close trump allies it ultimately doesnt mean much if the party itself is still toeing that trump line. We now have a Political Party in this country that is willing to subject itself to the whims of a wannabe autocrat, a single leader, willing to whitewash violence, change the rules of our elections so that theyre never out of power again. Folks, this isnt normal. Every week, on this show, we tell you a new threshold that has been crossed. And with every week that goes by, it becomes more and more clear how far into dangerous waters this country may genuinely never recover from. Thats where were going, Unchartered Territory. Theres a word for what path we are on. If nothing changes, we are heading towards fascism, and it should scare the hell out of all of us. Joining me now is philip bump, a National Correspondent for the washington post. Phillip, great to have you back on the show with us. Another week, we learned more this week about trumps involvement in these plans to steal the election, or as he said, overturn the election. The time this time it was an idea from Sidney Powell to have the military seize votesing machines, which you described it as one element of a Throw Spaghetti at the wall plan by loyalists to see what basically sticks. Were you surprised to learn it was rudy who talked trump out of this . No, not really. I mean, i think you hit the nail on the head there with the fact that Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell had been at loggerheads for some time. This was an absolutely bananas press conference in d. C. In midnovember, which Sidney Powell outlined these bonkers claims about foreign interference in the election, and the electoral machines, so crazy that Tucker Carlson went on fox news. There was also this bad blood between jewel gnaw luani. Powell seen as being beyond the pail. Because trump is so desperate to come up with any solution possible to try and hold onto the presidency, this is after december 14th, after the electors have already voted, that he then embraces this new idea, he welcomes Sidney Powell back into the white house, literally, and, you know, opens his he actually says at one point, according to reporting from my colleagues at the post, he says, you know, at least shes giving me a chance. Shes giving me options here. But because giuliani and powell had this bad blood, even giuliani had to say, look, we cant move forward with this plan as is. Lets help me put these comments in context. Lets talk a little bit about the pence comments from earlier this week. On one hand a lot of people are making a huge deal about them praising him to some extent for saying very clearly and definitively, trump was wrong, certainly members of the Political Class commentators on twitter, are they guilty of hyping it up too much or is it worth pointing out or giving him credit that he is doing this at the federalist society, you know, to some extent, a bastion of conservative intelligence, if you want to use the word, or did he not have the courage of going on fox news and saying that to the base of the party which is more staunchly trump than what you may expect from the federalist society. What do you think . I will say, just speaking from my own perspective. I think its obviously better than not that he said this so explicitly. To the point you raised in your introduction, this is essentially what he said on january 6th. That he was that whoever was saying that he could do these things was wrong. Thats essentially what he said in his letter on january 6th itself. And i think stuart stevens, a longtime yop consultant, worked with both president bushes. He has since become very disillusioned about the party and he raised a good point about pence. Yes, he did the right thing on january 6th, but he was also involved with and tasked with by donald trump, overturning the election. And instead of raising a stink at that point in time publicly saying, hey, we cant do this, what are you doing . Instead he did the most dos ill thing he could. Heres my letter saying im not going to do that, go to capitol hill. Better to do that than not. Better now he was wrong than not but it was not this great brave thing he did necessarily. And i think we risk missing the forest here. I think youre exactly right, what we need to focus on is there was this big effort, and i think we get so bogged down in these little incidents and these little statements that are like, aha, and moving the ball incrementally forward and failing to appreciate that were in the midst of this effort to have tried to steal the presidency and that is the big picture we need to remain focused on. Yeah, i keep reminding people on this show and elsewhere that we dodged a bullet, not because our institutions upheld or our laws worked, but by the grace of maybe a handful of people who made certain decisions and we got a lucky break this time. We may not get that break the next time. One person, whos definitely had a strong reaction to this, philip, to mike pences comments, is trump himself. I mean, since pences comments yesterday, trump has put out four stand alone statements attacking pence, blaming Speaker Pelosi for the capitol riot. Do you think that he was rattled by pence speaking out . Does pence speaking out open the door for others in the Republican Party, and i dont want to say Republican Party collectively. We know what they did yesterday. But republican individuals to stand up with a little bit of courage and follow mike pences lead through the door . I mean, i think we come back to the sort of hope that Many Americans have held since, you know, mid2015, which is that maybe there will be someone who says, you know, i will also take up the banner and stand alongside you. But, i mean, i think if you ask any american, who are republicans more likely whos the leader theyre more likely to follow, donald trump or mike pence, who is mike pence leading. Maybe his immediate family. Not sure. Even his brother, greg pence, in the house voted against recognizing the electors on january 6th. Its you know, i think that by itself answers the question. No, youre absolutely right. Its a very good point and a good way to look at it and not to mention the gop spoke out yesterday, we know how that went. It was as trumpian as you can possibly get. Philip bump, great to see you. Joining me now is congresswoman sheila jacksonlee, democrat from texas who sits on the Homeland Security committee. Congresswoman, thank you for joining us as well. I want to start off by asking you about a pair of tweets from republican senator Lisa Murkowski in response to the censure of representatives cheney and kinzinger. She wrote that we must not legitimize those actions which resulted in lots of life and we must learn from that horrible event so that history does not repeat itself. Your reaction to the senators comments and do you think thats what the Republican Party is doing by attempting the brush the plot to overthrow the election under the rug . First of all, so good to be with you and your viewers. I totally agree with the senator. And my point, first, is that this Democratic Republic is at a precipice of survival, or collapse. And it is shameful that we have lost our adversary. Weve lost the loyal opposition of the basis of this nation, where two distinct parties and others stood up for different opinions, but stood up for democracy. Im stunned. By the action that occurred on friday. And the reason is, that you have now censured patriots, individuals that serve on a committee, that is trying to discern why we were so violated on january 6th. Why democracy was so viciously attacked. And you are challenging them to support not only a person who stands on the pile of big lies, but is a unelected citizen, who argues for the overthrow of this government. And that is the form president of the United States. And you are challenging them for not being loyal, not to the nation, not to the constitution, but to a person who has not earned that kind of respect. It saddens me for a party that i have worked with, as loyal opposition, and it saddens me for the democracy that we love, the United States of america. It is an outrage. So let me ask you about the democracy of the United States of america for a moment. When you take a step back and you look at what happened yesterday, with the gop censuring two members of congress, basically embracing Political Violence in an attempted overthrow of our government, a plot by the president and his closest allies to overturn the election in his words. A party that is embracing the banning of books in this country and our educational system, a party that is, to some extent, antiscience, a rise of neonazis in various parts of our country. What is the state of our country . Is It Hyperbolic for me and others to say that we are at a very dangerous threshold and we are going in Unchartered Territory here in this country . I think it is insightful and important for journalists under the First Amendment to keep educating the American Public. That if theyre not vigilant about their democracy, they are on a precipice, as i said, of survival, or collapse. I have faith in this little book called the constitution. Its early words that said we have gathered to create a more perfect union, as you well know, women were not included in the constitution, slaves were less than one person, and weve had our difficulties with race and sex, if you will, but what we have been able to do is to ensure that the basis of this country was a love for democracy and a love for the flag and a love for who we are. We have stood as a progressive, ive stand against the vileness of some of the actions that have occurred from the dixiecrats and the deg segregationists. But ive always had a faith that the majority of the people, the Men And Women who put on the uniform believe in its basic principle. I believe that we have hope because progressives are strong, and we are embracing all of america who really wants to move forward, have build back better, have the bipartisan infrastructure bill, fight to eliminate racism. But we cannot let our guard down because as we saw on january 6th, we saw not only domestic terrorists, but we saw the hollering of racial ep against black police officers, we saw the toxic mixture that can be the end of us. I think there are young people and the voters are going to fool many of those in the krup camp in 2022 and vote to move this country forward. We cannot let our guard down. Democracy is fragile and i believe weve got to fight for it. I have to ask about the party generally, the Democratic Party generally, do you think they are up to the task for saving this democracy given where it is, and i say that knowing we may be losing, as you said, the loyal opposition in this country, does the democratic water realize the seriousness of it . The totality of the party, some people do. Yourself and progressives are up for it, but does the Party Leadership and the white house, do you think, are they aware of the moment when it comes to the threat of voting rights, the risk to to our country and our constitutional democracy . Weve got to shore up every aspect that makes this nation a democracy, the oldest that the world has admired. Weve got to be bold in our actions, and i do think that there are bold democrats who recognize that a mild mannered approach is a yester year. The years of minority leader michael, when democrats could work together. So we want to work on the other side of the aisle. But were not insisting that working on the other side of the aisle has no that we can collaborate with, and that we have to have that. As we look at the january 6th committee, that has been doing an able job of democrats and two republicans, they have the strength, as you look at the litany of individuals from the Trump Administration who being called in, it seems that every staff member, miller, and others, it looks like the whole team was practically aware of and involved in january 6th. Were glad some of them are talking. Were glad Jeffrey Clark is coming in. But putting that aside, weve got to work for vulnerable americans, were bold about that and there are those of us who are going to insist on it. You may know im the author of hr40. That sounds like a striking legislation but i believe its a healing legislation and that is the legislation to study slavery and develop reparation proposals. 215 plus members have supported it. Thats a strong statement that we want a better america. So all i can say to you is, to be able to do this, the fight must be strong, you must engage with young voters, you must make sure that they know that democracy is fragile and its in their hands and we will win and be victorious, if there are diligent caretakers of democracy and they push aside what happened on friday with the rnc. Im wishing them the best, but lets push it aside and fight for americas democracy. Congresswoman sheila jacksonlee, always a pleasure, thank you for your time and thank you for joining us this evening. Delighted to be with you, hope to be back, thank you. Always. Next, im going to ask former u. S. Ambassador to ukraine, bill taylor, about putins intentions in ukraine and why the u. S. Should care about what happens in that country. Plus, talk about living in two different worlds. Debunking claims from Conservative Media about whats to blame for a recent uptick in Violent Crime. 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So lately ive been asking myself what does russian president Vladimir Putin want, and why should we here in the u. S. Care . And as bill taylor the former u. S. Ambassador to ukraine once told the new yorker, mr. Putin and his Security Services are adept at exacerbating taking advantage of cleavages in the United States and ukraine and in europe, hes exacerbated fishers, divisions, cleavages in our society. This is what he does. This is what he does. Taylor wasnt talking about the 100,000 plus troops currently amassed along ukraines border right now. In fact, that quote was from February 2020 when putin was actually taking another crack at disrupting the world order. Now its a play he tries again and again, whether its election interference, poisoning Opposition Leaders or invading other countries. Meanwhile, there are dozens of other global conflicts the u. S. Stays out of, and more importantly, lets be honest here for a moment, we dont promote and defend democracy in every country around the world. Heck, some of our allies, some of our closest allies are some of the most undemocratic nations on this planet. Are we spending too much time to reason with one person, and more importantly, should we care about what happens in ukraine . Luckily for us we have the perfect guest to help answer some of these questions and more, joining me now is bill taylor, former u. S. Ambassador to ukraine, hes also Vice President at the u. S. Institute of peace for russia and europe. Ambassadortail lor, its great to have you with me and thank you so much for joining us, id like to start with that question, a lot of people may be watching this in middle america, or anywhere in this country, to be quite honest, and wondering why should the United States care about this crisis . As i sat, and i know you have served in the state department. The u. S. Does not promote and defend democracy everywhere in the world. You know that our allies around the world are some of the most undemocratic countries on this planet. Why do we suddenly care about democracy in ukraine . First of all, its not a sudden care. We have been we have been working, supporting ukrainians, and Ukrainian Democracy for three decades, and this has been true, by the way, ayman, across the political spectrum. It has been right and left. Republicans and democrats, its been house and senate. It has been through administration republican, administration democratic, we have been supporting ukraine as it tries to develop its own democracy, and its own way getting into europe, trying to get away from russia, and getting away from where it came from out of the soviet union. So there are a couple reasons why we should care. And the first is, that this is the front line. This is the front line. Ukraine is the front line of democracies against autocracies, but its also the front line of a war, ayman, that ukrainians didnt start. The russians started this war. The russians invaded ukraine in 2014, are now threatening to do it again. And the ukrainians are there defending against the russians, and theyre defending europe. In some real sense theyre defending us. You mentioned that the russians meddle in elections. Well, they start meddling in elections in ukraine and then they come to the United States. They start hacking into energy systems, in ukraine, and then they come to the United States, and they do the same thing. Ukraines on the front line, and let me just say, that our american soldiers, our u. S. Troops are on the front lines of the battles and the fights and the wars that we fight. And theyre on the front line. And we support them. And just like we support our troops, the United States and the international committee, europe ought to support ukraine on the front line of democracy. Thats number one. But number two, as a broader issue, theres a broader issue, and that is, if we want to have a secure europe, and thus a secure United States and international system, then there have to be some rules, some principles, some norms that we live by. One of them is that states, nations are sovereign. They get to make their own decisions. If we dont believe in that, then we are then its right makes right. A sphere of influence. The big countries get to decide what little countries have to do. Thats wrong. Thats not what we stand for. And if we allow that to happen, then russia wont stop with ukraine. You make a very compelling point. I certainly respect that, but if you look at some of our allies like germany, for example, theyve taken a step back here, and some say there is a little bit of daylight between the u. S. And germany on this. They arent sending weapons to ukraine, and are keeping a relatively low profile in this. They certainly have skin in the game, not only geographically, they have economic interests with energy. Why are we stepping in here, when in so many other cases, you know, a country like germany is not as active in this fight as, perhaps, they should be, if they are a close ally of ours. They are a close ally of ours. And every ally is going to do things a little bit differently. Were all going in the same direction. Were all opposing russias attempt to subordinate ukraine, which is really what putins after. We are all in that, and germany, as a way to do that, and they have said, in some terms, that if russia invades ukraine, that that pipeline, that mr. Putin has been so proud of, and so eager to get into operation, that goes from russia, the gas pipeline from russia into germany, the germans have said, in so many words, that that pipeline wont go into operation. And other nations are sending different kinds of weapons. Were sending some support to the front lines. The french are sending support to the front lines. The dutch are sending are sending aircraft. The spanish are sending ships. Were all doing it differently, and its all in the same direction. Right. Do you think the u. S. Right now is taking the right course of action . What would you be advising President Biden, if you could, on what they should or should not be doing to deter President Putin from this action . Right. I would say dont blink. I would say, stand your ground. President zelensky in ukraine is staring at 100,000, 150,000 troops, on his border, fully armed, missiles, tanks, artillery. President zelensky is staring him down, and President Biden is right beside him. President biden is right beside him. And they are both staring down President Putin. President putin probably didnt expect that. He probably thought that he could muscle zelensky or muscle biden. He thought he could intimidate them into giving up and to folding, and to blinking. And so far, President Bidens not blinking, and president zelensky has not blinked. Well see how this plays out, ambassador taylor, greatly appreciate your time, couldnt think of anyone better to talk to about this, sir, thank you for joining us. Thanks, ayman. The congressman from Silicon Valley makes his pitch to the forgotten Men And Women in this country. Does that sound familiar . Ill explain after the break. Ill explain afterhe t break how about a throwback . Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty how bout sushi . I just had sushi for lunch yesterday. Indian . Ehh, maybe. How bout seafood . You know i dont like seafood. [collision beeping warning] [silence] how bout tacos . Tacos. Automatic Emergency Braking one of six advanced safety features standard on every 2022 chevy equinox. Find new technology. Find new roads. 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Hey, cologuard hi, im noninvasive and i detect altered dna in your stool to find 92 of Colon Cancers even in early stages. Early stages. Its for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. False positive and negative results may occur. Ask your provider if cologuard is right for you. all to screening back in 2016 then president ial candidate donald trump made a key pledge to Blue Collar Workers in Rural America and it went Something Like this. Thinking about the miners all over this country, were going to put the miners back to work, were going to put the miners back to work. So trump even took his premature victory lap with a group of miners one year later but for all that fanfare the former president predictically couldnt save coal mining jobs, now a surprising politician is reaching out to those very same Blue Collar Workers, democratic congressman roe cahn of california says its time for tech jobs to go to coal country. The congressman says silicon holler, a region of kentucky with a Fledgling Tech Sector is one example of an expanding digital revolution. Congressman ro khanna joins us now. Its great to have you back on the program. Fascinating book, and very important, i guess, central thesis, talk to me a little bit about this. Silicon holler is a part of Appalachian Kentucky that aspires to build a tech savvy workforce, tell us about it and how you think it could be a model for other areas of the country the tech boom has forgotten. Thanks fg having me on. The important thing is this is a name that hale rogers gave the area, a republican member of congress in the heart of Trump Country and you see there is a desire to have revenue come in and understanding this is going to require technology jobs, there are 25 million digital jobs expected by 2025. You look at alex hughes who got one of these jobs. This is not a coder for google. Hes Making Refrigerators and laundry machines, to be smart machines. These are the manufacturing and retail jobs of the 21st century, one other example is intel, going to ohio, 3,000 jobs in manufacturing, 7,000 construction jobs. We can revitalize a large part of the country by distributing these modern tech jobs. Youre on a mission to address rampant inequality in your book you write that we cannot leave the Tech Evolution to an Invisible Hand that may foster creative brilliance and overnight billionaires, but also leaves many behind, creating Stark Inequality, both geographically and within communities, with a strong tech presence. What lessons have we learned from the first tech boom in the late 90s and what is your plan to fix that Stark Inequality . Its not just about the income inequality, its also about the knowledge inequality. Well, my district and the surrounding areas have 11 trillion of market cap, the most wealth created in any one region in human history. And yet so many places in this country were left out, people were saying go told go move and they didnt want to move. And you have the racial wealth gap thats increasing because theres a racial wealth generation gap. So my view is that the Lesson Learned is you cant just allow bloeblization, Digitization Unfettered we need to focus on communities that have been left out, invest in bringing jobs there, in bringing the right type of credentialing there and in the book i give examples, such as zoom doing this at an hbcu classroom in South Carolina being a success. We just have neglected the Fair Distribution of digital opportunity. Is there a political calculation in this . I mean, the New York Times, in the review of the book, they touched on a political motivation that i think is pretty interesting, that there is this hope that by spreading the digital wealth, the ideas that it can reduce the toxic the former president seized the anxieties about the post industrial economy in many places that khanna wants to help. Im for anything that i played for you the sound bite of trump trying to seize that when he was campaigning, and it just, you know, obviously he wasnt able to protect those coal miners, even with all of his false promises. Is this actually possible . Well, its meeting people where theyre at. Acknowledging that weve had job loss in communities. A lot of these communities they talk about the brain drain. My parents talk about the brain drain coming from india, that their kids have to buy a oneway ticket out. This is saying, yes, we need an economic revival in those communities, but we could do that economic revival without cultural displacement. It has to be an economic revival of the 21st century, not of the 1970s. Thats not going to work so what are these 25 million new jobs in manufacturing, in retail, in advanced electronics, that we can have in these communities, why is it that in michigan, gm, to build auto plans, has to hire a lot of tech workers in my district. Why cant those jobs be in michigan. And if i believe if we create an economic job creation in communities left out and then you have them working in other parts of the country, that its not a panacea, they can begin to reduce the resentment, reduce the polarization in this country. Congressman ro khanna from california, always a pleasure, sir, thank you for coming back on the show, good to see you. Thank you so much for having me. The reason for crime spikes in major cities and still to come with my saturday night allstar panel, trump as a bonneville in giulianis disastrous attempt at and tom brady making grown mens hearts. Stick around, more ayman next. 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First, take a look at the framing here, 12 major democrat controlled cities, yes, each of the cities referenced in that article is led by a democratic mayor, but experts have repeatedly warned against drawing a direct line between Party Control and crime. Maybe you remember this saying, correlation, doesnt imply causation. Its true that big cities tend to have more crime, and yes those cities usually vote for democrats but those two facts arent necessarily related. As one expert pointed out, there are plenty of democrat controlled cities that are not on that list. He also suggested such a cause and effect, quote, a pretty irresponsible one. But that doesnt stop the right from blaming the rising crime rate, one of their favorite boogie man mantras is defund the police. But let me break the facts down for you. Following the murder of george floyd by Minneapolis Police officer Derek Chauvin in 2020 progressive activists called for a number of police reforms. One of those was a relocation of funds from police to social programs, which was branded defund the police. But of those 12 cities facing record breaking Homicide Rates, only six cut or diverted parts of their Police Budgets. The other six actually increased police spending. That makes the rights narrative a little harder to spal low. Im not good at math. But it does tell a more comprehensive picture. Plus, two of those cities i mentioned that diverted or decreased spending after the defund the police movement, portland and austin, have since increased their police funding. But heres the thing. In the cities that did divert spending, its actually too early to tell what impact that had on the homicide rate. Right now, experts say theres no research proving that defunding the police leads to homicide spikes. Now, a professor who studies called using one or two years of data to highlight a trend essentially useless since homicides are rare, relative to other crimes. And she insisted multiple years of data is needed. And, in fact, older data actually suggests that local crime rates cannot be predicted by Officer Strength and Police Budgets alone. So lets be clear about this. And what this is. Its members of the Conservative Media, cherry picking data, to fit their narrative. That much is clear, since they seem to be ignoring the host of experts who point to other possibilities for the rise in Homicide Rates, like pandemic related factors, including the rise of Firearm Sales or economic stress. But heres one Thing Experts do agree on, its too soon to single out just one reason for the recent rise in homicides. The facts here arent up for debate. Homicide rates are spiking across the country. That much is clear. But despite what you may read in headlines, the reason behind that spike is not. And we gott. That spike is not. [limu emu squawks] woo new personal record, limu only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. 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President biden in New York City mayor eric adams, the two democrats met thursday to discuss revising crime rates with biden saying police and communities need to build trust saying the answer is not to defund the police. Lets check with one of americas Major Networks to see how they covered that event. Only republicans can do this because theyre the only people who understand incentives and disincentives and theyre not afraid of criminalizing crime. Democrats are done, castrated, they allowed the woke to strip them of a spine. They have to get the hell out of dealing with criminals. Sometimes it feels like republicans and democrats are living in two entirely different realities, so when it comes to crime, whats fact and whats fiction . Here to give us a reality check, staff wire for the marshall project. Jamar, great to have you with us. Lets take a look at the numbers. A report on 22 major u. S. Cities found Homicide Rates increased by 5 in 2021. Thats less of an uptick than we saw in 2020, but still a jump that we should note. You report on stories behind this type of data. What can you tell us about the increase in crime . Yeah. Thank you for having me. Id say its very difficult to speak about Crime Usefully in a national context. Were a nation of 50 states, thousands of counties and Tens Of Thousands of jurisdictions and they all have different factors that affect crime. Even in a standardized data thats provided for it fbi, there are differences how citizens report crime, how police respond, and that makes the numbers a challenge to report on and speak authoritatively about. What we do know is that most categories of crime were down in the latest fbi numbers, including property crimes, which is probably a surprise to some viewers based on recent media coverage. But as you mentioned, with notable exceptions in some cities like boston, charlotte, dallas, homicides are up, and its not at all a trivial amount. If we go back to the 2020 data that was released in late 2021, we saw the largest year on year increase on homicides in 60 years. Though its nowhere near historical peaks, we should be deeply concerned. Its useful context, but its no balm to communities being replayed by violence or families losing loved ones to it. So recently you probably saw fox news has been dominated by coverage of what they call americas crime crisis. Its no doubt some areas of the country are facing this uptick in crime, as you just pointed out. What impact do you think these sensational Media Reports and misleading statements like we just played there like placing the blame on democrat or liberalrun cities have on the general American Public . Is this about reporting the facts or is this about instilling fear . Yeah. Theres certainly been a rise in antidefund the police triumphism in the Conservative Media in recent weeks. You see it on cable news and you can see it in opeds throughout the internet news scape. Without getting to the policy Meanings Bhooilgts behind that phrase, theres no clear correlation between jurisdictions that make reductions to Police Budgets and their Violent Crime rate. In a smaller of cities that cut Police Budgets and shift funding into other social services, you can find examples where crime went up and went down. You can find cities where Police Budgets remained the same or even increased. So its absolutely about a political narrative and its a useful one for republicans as we enter the midterms. But i think its also worth mentioning its not necessarily a phenomenon of Conservative Media. Its really a mega problem generally that crisis feels more newsworthy than the lack of one. Right . So things that work out mostly are not just that interesting for news coverage. When a person whos out on bail commits a new horrifying crime, thats considered newsworthy, understandably, but its not considered newsworthy that the vast majority of people released pretrial upwards of 99 in many jurisdictions do not get arrested for a new Violent Crime. Im not even staking a Policy Position here. As a society we could decide that preventing that 1 of Violent Crimes is Worth Holding the other 99 of people in jail without having been convicted. Certainly sounds absurd when you put it that way, but weve decided that at my m points before and we can decide it again as a community or a nation. But what i am staking a position is yeah . Go ahead, go ahead. Finish your thought. Just that people need to be armed with this context in order to be able to accurately and rationally come to an opinion on this question. We are very lucky you were here to provide us with context. We certainly hope to bring you back because i feel like this is an important conversation we need to keep that perspective on. Greatly appreciate it, sir. Thanks for your time. Senator john kennedy and his j. Crew catalog. Ill get to him during my Hypocrisy Hot Take of the week. Thats next. Y Hypocrisy Hot Take of the week Hypocrisy Hot Take of the week thats next. Or an intense burning sensation. What is this nightmare . Its how some people describe. Shingles. A painful, blistering rash what is this nightmare . That could interrupt your life for weeks. Forget social events and weekend getaways. If youve had chickenpox, the virus that causes shingles is already inside of you. If youre 50 years or older ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. Deon, hand it over. If youre 50 years or older now how does that make you feel . Like a part of me is missing. Gabrielle . This old spice fiji hand and body lotion has me smoother than ever. Thats what it does. Am i working on friday . 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We are back with tonights Hypocrisy Hot Take. Lets check in with senator john kennedy. This week the Louisiana Republican who sits on the Judiciary Committee shared bizarre expectations for bidens Supreme Court pick. President biden has pledged to nominate a black woman for the court, and kennedy said he had two main criteria for the nominee. The senator reportedly requested a nominee that,