Top of the virus. Assuming it is joe biden who takes office in january, whats he going to do . So far thanks to a very protective press corps, mr. Biden hasnt faced too much tough questioning. Take these examples from at the launch of his economic plan this week. What do you see as the biggest threat to your transition right now given president trumps unprecedented attempt to obstruct and delay a smooth transfer of power . I want to get your thoughts on the president s tweet. How did you interpret that, and at the end of the day, do you want him to concede . What is your message to people who are considering, for example, getting together with their families and others for thanksgiving . Would you consider would you urge people to reconsider their plans . Gerry not exactly an interrogation chamber. Anyway, his first task would obviously be balancing the needs of the economy with the demands of public health. Hes been critical of president trumps handing, but not always completely clear what exactly he would do differently. Beyond covid19, there are big economic challenges. Now, its true that before the virus hit the economy was in pretty good shape with unemployment at a 50year low, wages rising and inflation just about dead. But once the immediate threat of the pandemic is past, there will be what economists i call scarring in the economy. Many buzzes will be gone for good, Companies May be cautious about rehiring, and changes in the way that we all work and live may mean that many jobs will not come back at all. How is President Biden going to handle that . Beyond that lies even larger challenges. For one, todays economy is increasingly unbalanced with many sectors dominated by a handful of companies, amazon, apple, facebook, google and microsoft exercise a power thats not been seen in modern history. Those five companies between them now account for almost onequarter of the total valuation of the top 500 u. S. Companies. Domination by Big Companies is also true in finance, consumer goods, telecoms and elsewhere. And the pandemic seems to have led to an even greater concentration of that power. Thats something that President Biden may want to deal with. And there are other tasks, of course. Take trade. President trump took a very different line from his predecessors in confronting china, trying to force it to change unfair practices. Then theres education. Democrats want to cancel debt for millions of students, but is that fair on other americans who have already paid off their debts . Then theres also energy. In the last few years the u. S. Has become energy independent. President elect biden has talked about transitioning out of fossil fuels in purr if suit of a green agenda, but can he do that without killing hundreds of thousands of existing jobs . How would he deal with these immediate and longerterm channels . Someone who is well placed to answer those questions is gene sperling, former director of the Economic Council for both president obama and bill clinton. Also author of a new book. Jeep, thanks very much for joining us. Thanks for having me. Gerry president elect bidens going to be taking office right in the middle of this covid crisis with lockdowns and, unfortunately, over the next couple of months, it doesnt look like its going to get much better. What exactly is going to be the job on day one for a new Biden Administration . Well, i think, unfortunately, right now we face, you know, not just a fiscal cliff, truly a humanitarian cliff that is coming if we do not get action. I mean, this economy has benefited significantly from very bold fiscal action that took place in the cares act. You know, right now the headline unemployment number might sound okay, but if you look at the pain out there, there are as many as 26 Million People who have either lost their job or out of the work force or have seen their pay cut. We had the highest rise in longterm unemployment, 1 is. 93 million 1. 93 million, in a two month period that weve seen since we started keeping records in 1948. And look at the cliffs were facing. On december 31st the Eviction Moratorium ends, the foreclosure moratorium ends. If nothing happens, joe biden could literally be dealing with a rye sis of homeless crisis of homelessness and eviction right as he comes in. And unemployment insurance, there may be as many as 1012 Million People who could lose their unemployment insurance. So this is, obviously, terrible from a macroeconomic point of view, to have that kind of loss of demand which could get significantly worse as he comes into president. But from a humanitarian point of view, you know, this is a crisis. Weve seen the food lines, weve seen there is a lot of pain and suffering. So i think the hope is Something Big and bold will happen before he gets there. But if not, his very first step is going to have to be dealing with this economic emergency gerry when you talk about are we talking about another cares act . Is again, maybe well get something in the transition period, but if we dont, are we talking about something on the scale of the cares act, 23 trillion . Is that the right kind of mention . You know, if you look at you know, rumors were that when pelosi, Speaker Pelosi and secretary of the treasury mnuchin were getting close to a 2 trillion amount. But the key thing is youve got to do something on longterm unemployment, extending the benefits, keeping some form of bonus. Youve got toastronaut9 and local government state and local governments who have now laid off over a million education workers and have seen a 10 fall in their revenues, and youve got to do manager on the rental crisis something on the rental crisis. And i say this not just for the renters, but the landlords too. Weve got to do something. Is so these are very critical, among the critical things that have happened. And certainly, when you look at the food lines, we need to do more on the nutrition relief. Gerry weve got to take a quick break, but before we do, obviously, all eyes are on georgia right now two Senate Runoffs there. Im sure youll be rooting hard for the democrats to win those, but lets say they dont or they dont one both of them and joe biden doesnt have a democratic majority in the senate. Theres a lot of interest in what President Biden might be able to do without even getting legislation through the senate, maybe through executive action. Is that something that you think he should be seriously considering, loans maybe from the treasury . What can he do if he isnt able to get the main bottoms, the main parts of his package to congress . Listen, i dont think anybody should have any, you know, illusions. Theres nothing thats going to stimulate the economy like the type of, you know, build back better job mobilization that hes called for. A major push in green infrastructure, in manufacturing, made in america, in care jobs, more high quality, huepaid care jobs highpaid care jobs. These are the things that willdeal with, as you said, jobs that may have been been lost permanently. There are way of creating a job mobilization while dealing with national problems. And you mentioned scarring. You know, its not just about getting back to full employment, its about how fast you get back. And the longer you take, it means more young people come into a weak market, more young people go through the pain of longterm unemployment. So, yes, of course, if theres divided government, joe biden will have to try to still make the progress he can on a infrastructure bill, on manufacturing and, of course, look for what you can do without congress, executive action. On major fiscal stimulus, theres very little substitute for gerry let me [inaudible conversations] sorry, ive got to take a quick break. When we come back, well be looking at some of the other issues that President Biden will be wild thing, you make my heart sing wild thing i. Think i. You know what i think . I think you owe us 48. 50. Wild thing. If you ride, you get it. Geico motorcycle. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. If yoadapting. Innovating. Lsetting the course. But new ways of working demand a new type of network. One thats more than just fast. You need flexibility to work from anywhere. And manage from everywhere. Advanced technology. With serious security. And reliable coverage, nationwide. Forwardthinking enterprises, deserve forwardthinking solutions. And thats what we deliver. So bounce forward, with comcast business. Immediate 10,000 forgiveness of is student loans. Its helping people up. Theyre in real trouble. Theyre having to make choices between paying their student loan or paying the rent, those kinds of decisions. It should be done immediate lu. Gerry that was joe biden talking about the possibility of forgiveness of student loans, and im back with economic adviser to president obama and bill clinton, gene sperling. Canceling student debt, obviously, was very much talked about during the campaign and even talking about it now as something biden could do perhaps even without legislation. Some think its very unfair because it represents forgive, for some people but lots of people have paid off their student loans. What do you think he should do about in this. Well, remember, joe bidens vision was to have a world where tuition in Community College and in fouryear public colleges for people in the middle class under 125,000 would be, would be free so that the experience of going to college, of seeking a higher education, of getting a skill would not make people be saddled with debt. Part of that was also to relieve the existing debt on people right now. You know, i certainly favor his proposal. And i understand the arguments people make. But lets remember 10,000 would alleviate the debt of 40 of existing borrowers. And, you know, i know some comments have said, well, maybe its not the best stimulus because its spread out. But its not supposed to be just a stimulus. It certainly would help people with 200 of extra spending a week, but, you know, the Federal Reserve now estimates that 20 of the reason theres been a reduction in firsttime home buying by younger e people is student debt. And if its africanamerican and it hits africanamerican and latino borrowers even worse. So i think, you know, i think what bidens calling for, a 10,000 debt cancellation in addition to his plans, of course nothings ever perfectly targeted. But i think this would be helpful not only in relieving the payments people have, but i think it will have a wealth effect. It will make people more willing to buy a home, start a business, maybe even just purchase a car but able to do those without feeling that weight gerry got it, understood. Gene, very quickly because we dont have a lot of time, just quickly on trade, is President Biden going to call off the trade war with china . I think what youre going to see is a more effective and coordinated trade effort. If you look at things like, you know, why does china end up hurting u. S. , you know, steel and other things, a lot of it is because they have over capacity. Theyre over subsidizing. And what he believes is that the way to pressure and isolate china is to bring your allies together. So i think youre going to see him pressuring and coordinating and using the entire Global Community to pressure and isolate china. Gerry very quickly, you played very Important Role es in the last two democratic administrations. Are you packing your bags and heading to washington again . [laughter] you know, right now im sitting near santa monica. Its a pretty nice place to be quarantined gerry but if you get that call, if you get that call from president elect biden, youll be going back to the white house, will you . You know what . Smart people dont comment on personnel, wise people dont on any personnel, is certainly not about themselves. But thank you for asking. Gerry i will talk that as a yes, gene. Gene sperling, thank you very much, indeed, for joining us. Coming up, Big Companies are getting bigger, and theyre increasingly pushing their own political agenda. What effect is that having on democracy and capitalism . Democracy and capitalism . My lets be honest. Quitting smoking is hard. Like, quitting every monday hard. Quitting feels so big. So try making it smaller, and youll be surprised at how easily starting small can lead to Something Big. Start stopping with nicorette. Lexus has been celebrating driveway moments. Heres to one more, the lexus december to remember sales event. Lease the 2021 nx 300 for 349 a month for 36 months and well make your first months payment. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Gerry already Big Companies are getting bigger and bigger. They dominate our world now, Companies Like amazon and google especially control much of the information that we need to power our lives. Now, this isnt only a concern for considers, the small is a concern, of course, but its a concern for off democracy. These companies are led and dominated by people with a very clear set of ideologies, and theyre increasingly determined to use the economic power they have to promote those agendas. Its been called woke capitalism. Gone are the days when chief executives focused on their Companies Top and bottom lines. Now theyre on a mission. They want to change the way we all think about issues like immigration, race, gender, sexuality, the climate. Theyre leveraging their economic power to spread a progressive gospel. Its an accelerating trend that should concern conservatives but also all of us who believe in the free exe change of ideas. As someone whos thought a lot about this topic is scientist, founder and chief executive officer as well as author of woke economics inside corporate americas social justice scam thats coming out in 2021. Peter, thanks for joining me. Thank you for having me. Ing. Gerry tell us how we got to this situation where chief executives of these powerful companies are no longer simply chief executives of companies focused on their Companies Financial performance, but are increasingly playing this huge role in our lives in terms of promoting a particular agenda. It traces back to the 2008 financial crisis when the public changed expectations of what it wanted to see out of companies. That was crony capitalism at its worse worst with the 2008 bailout. The problem is that that resulted in crony capitalism 2. 0 which is instead of infecting denial crass through the front door, through just lobbying or putting your alumnus if youre a wall street bank in the seat of u. S. Treasury secretary, now its influencing our democracy through the back door by taking on the role of government, but e taking on the role of democracy to influence our Public Values in ways that may not be legislated through congress, but are done through the back door on areas ranging to environmentalism and social causes that really dont have to do with the original purpose for why society created corporations, to provide products that all people know. It was a post2008 move. Jiujitsustyle move made by Silicon Valley and wall street to create a new form of crony capitalism that involves influencing through the back door rather than just doing it through the front door through lobbying and direct influence of government. Gerry now owe these you know these chief executives, were pursuing a new kind of capitalism where were no longer just concerned about the bottom line and our shareholder, but were concerned about society, and we have obligations to a broader society. Why are they wrong about that . One of the things i talk about in few book is that the great secret of 21st century modern capitalism is the act, its like a magic act of pretending like you care about something other than profits precisely to make more profits. Gerry and one of the things i think weve seen is a broader what this does is it creates, it fosters a greater mistrust, right . People used to just expect to get jeans from their retailers, they didnt expect. To get a corporate message. And this was a broad or mistrust. But just quickly, weve seen that miss trust spreading to areas like science. We have now i think the public thats deeply mistrustful of government scientists. Tell us whats going on there and how this is more broadly affecting it. Sure. I think this is really not just a story about woke capitalism, its a story about institution allying. And i think the american people, im sad to say, no longer really trust scientists like they used to. And part of the reason for that, gerry, is that today maybe with the best of intentions many scientists overstate the certainty of their claims in the hope that more people will listen to them, and that backfires. Then big tech gets involved. You have a scientific Industrial Complex that limits the bounds of open debate, it censors what youre able to see on social media or the internet. That then backfires too. Then you get politicians who shout from the hills to believe the science, something that sounds more like a cult call, and that back backfires too. Humility really the withdraw forward. Gerry just briefly, tell us what we can do about this. How can we go about restoring Peoples Trust in companies, in experts, in scientists . Weve got such a past here that there is we need to do something. More briefly, what can we do . The answer is simple. Its more honesty. Companies are allowed to pursue profits, theyre not only allowed to pursue profits, that is what society created them to do. In fact, our great social contract in the birth of the corporation was for companies to stay exclusively focused on pursuing profits rather than infecting our moral norms and democracy. The Scientific Method is about humility, it is about uncertainty, it is about skepticism, and scientists should no longer project false confidence. I think this is part of a broader Cultural Movement of the restoration of honesty. And i think that that ultimately re, when we lose trust in our institutions, we lose trust in each other, and when we lose trust in each other, we have a divided nation. I think this actually goes to the heart of what might be bothering us in our current moment in our history. I think the way forward is simple honesty, and thats what my critique is all about as well. Gerry vi e celeb, we look very much forward the reading that book. Thanks for joining i. Thank you. Gerry despite a pandemic, its thanksgiving, and theres still reason to [ engines revving ] its amazing to see them in the wild like th shhh. [ engine revs ] for those who were born to ride, theres progressive. Birds flyin high you know how i feel breeze drifting on by you know how i feel [man coughing] its a new dawn, its a new day. No matter how you got copd its time to make a stand. And im feelin good start a new day with trelegy. No oncedaily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. With three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. It also helps prevent future flareups. Trelegy wont replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. Tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Do not take trelegy more than prescribed. Trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. Its time to start a new day. Ask your doctor about oncedaily trelegy. And save at trelegy. Com. Ask your doctor about odamom, look getgy. Sare you okay . . Head home this holiday with the one you love. Visit your local mercedesbenz dealer today for exceptional lease and financing offers at the mercedesbenz winter event. Gerry i was planning to close with observations about bias in the media or some other aspect of modern culture that gets under the skin, but theres too much of that already. We need to step back from the endless feuding, the restless determination to find fault with each other and the world and find time instead to acknowledge our blessings. Thats, of course, what thanksgiving is all about. Nations are in many ways defined by their ritual, and its no accident that thanksgiving is almost a uniquely american tradition. Generous, positive, full of gratitude for the life that weve been given, whatever the hardships. As an immigrant to this country, im extraordinarily grateful for the many weesings besnowed on me and my family. I know for most americans this wont be a typical thanksgiving, you may be subject to unusual a painful are e minder that 2020 has not been our best of years. But please do take it from someone who budget born here but whos come to know and love this country, america is still the nation whose citizens have extra special reasons every year to count their blessings. Thats it for us this week. Be sure to follow me on twitter, facebook and instagram. Ill be back next week with more indepth interviews right here on the wall street journal at large. Thanks for joining us, and have a happy thanksgiving. Jack welcome to barrons roundtable where we get behind the headlines and prepare you for the week ahead. Im jack otter. With covid19 vaccines coming soon, wheres the market headed now . Ed car denyny showers his scenario. And the later, the Global Economy is beginning to recover from the pandemic, an expert Investment Panel says its time to look overseas. But we gun with what we think are the three most important things investors ought to be thinking about. Stocks were resilient this week in