Crowded. The early presumptive choice for many, former Vice President joe biden, has seen his poll numbers slip. His campaign has been dogged by gaffes and lackluster debate performances, plus he continues to deal with questions about his involvement with you yard line. Ukraine. Senator Elizabeth Warren is facing real resistance especially from the democratic establishment over her plans more fullty trillion multitrillion dollar social programs. Senator Bernie Sanders too is plagued by worries about his europeanlike socialist proposals. And with south bend mayor Pete Buttigieg has made inroads especially in iowa, he remains in fourth place. Just last week former new york mayor Mike Bloomberg filed to be on the ballot in alabama and later addedded arkansas saying hes concerned a fading biden will mean the democrats will end up with someone far too liberal. And this week Deval Patrick announced that he was throwing his hat in the wing. He fears the current candidates wont be able to beat the sitting president. And, of course, theres always Hillary Clinton, isnt there . Although she insists that shes not running, shes been dropping subtle hints that maybe, just maybe, she might change her mind and go for a rematch with the president. On tuesday she told the bbc i, as i say, never, never, never say never. And i will certainly tell you im under enormous pressure from many, many, many people to think about it. Who might break out of the democratic pack, and how will the politics of impeachment play out . Here to help answer those questions is someone certainly well versed in democratic politics, mark penn was Hillary Clintons chief strategist in her 2008 campaign and is also a key was also a key adviser to bill clinton. He join ares me from washington. Mark, thank you very much for being here. Thank you. Gerry lets start with politics of impeachment. Seeing these hearings weve had this week, do you think theyre moving needle in terms of Public Opinion at all for next years election . Well, i dont think anyone is winning in the sense that people are always trying to say, well, whos gaining a political advantage out of whats happening. I think that the more this goes on, the democrats are or up to charge that all they did was with impeachment, and the more President Trump feels compelled to respond to everything that is said or done, more he also tends to dig himself in. You know, i wish hed be listening to president clintons advise, which i was quite surprised this week about how to handle impoochment which is to impeachment which is to let other people handle it. Gerry both sides voters will be energized by this, democrats because they really want to see the president removed from office, and theyll go out and vote against him, republicans because they regard the whole thing as a coup detat. That conventional wisdom right . Well, i think that is right. I think each sides revving up their base. But general electionses, unlike primaries, are not decided by bases. Theyre decided by swing voters, and swing voters right now dont like President Trump, they dont like the democrats, and they dont like the republicans. And so they continue to dig holes into their bases while leaving swing voters perplexed about how are we going to get things done in this country. Gerry how many swing voters are there these days . We hear about the base and its all about turnout. How big is the panel of persuadable voters . Well, i often say were a 404020 country which is to say that youll get about 40 that would impeach trump regardless of any facts and side with democrats on almost all issues, and theres about 40 that would agree with that famous statement that President Trump said that he should shoot someone on fifth avenue, still get there support, and theres about 20 that actually is capable of going back or forth depending upon how issues and how things in the country may themselves out. And i think that 20 is underrated and important. Gerry you saw very close hand the impeachment of president clinton more than 20 years ago. That did seem to work out different, it did work out very well for his party in the 1998 midterms. Well, i think, i think much to the republicans chagrin, it did. And i think that we stuck, i think, quite strongly to a message that, hey, im out here doing the countrys business while the republicans are playing partisan game, and i think we were also very successful at discrediting the whole idea of trying to impeach the president on the basis of his relations with monica lewinsky. Gerry as you said earlier on this, as on many, many other things, it doesnt look like President Trump is any mind to listen to president bill clintons advice. Instead, he seems to want to get actively involved in the impeachment process himself, constantly sort of live tweeting it. Does that, i mean, is clinton right . Its better just to stay out of it and let the democrats kind of create the scene that theyre creating for themselves . Well, look, at the time i was part of devising a strategy that says, look, in any crisis the most important thing to americans and even in corporate crises is can the leader continue to lead the country effectively. Thats the most important thing when we delivered the state of the union or went to united nations, the country said, look, the president s the president x this whole impeachment thing will play itself out. Then we appointed a group of people to go out there and battle every day, and except in those time when it was shul necessary, we kept the absolutely necessary we kept the president above the fray. And thats why president clinton had a 73 Approval Rating which is something you dont see in this country im not even sure that given the partisanship its even possible anymore to have that kind of a Approval Rating. And our Economic Conditions were about as good as they are now. Gerry have you seen any evidence that the impeachment process so far is changing President Trumps Approval Rating in its been going on, obviously, now for a couple months. No. I think in general the president s Approval Ratings have been unaffected by the ukraine situation. But hes at 45, not at 65 or 70, so hes 20, 25 points back from where president clinton was at that time. He has an election coming up, so so things, i think, are seen even in a more partisan nature. I notice democratic numbers actually have come up a little. I think democrats are energizing their base. Democrats have been saying when is the party going to do something about donald trump, and so i think in some sense the party base is definitely rewarding the democrats. And i understand theres record fundraising on the republican side. So, you know, in terms of a divided country, i could think of nothing that promotes energizing the base, raising money and more combative election and electorate than going through an impeachment trial. Gerry mark, stay with us. Were going to take a short break, and when we come back, were going to get on to that 2020 democratic field. Want to get your does your broker offer more than just free trades . Fidelity has zero commissions for online u. S. Equity trades and etfs, plus zero minimums to open a brokerage account. With value like this, there are zero reasons to invest anywhere else. Fidelity. There are zero reasons to invest anywhere else. Could another come aroundot, the corner. Or could it play out differently . I wanted to help protect myself. My doctor recommended eliquis. Eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot. Almost 98 of patients on eliquis didnt experience another. And eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. Eliquis is fdaapproved and has both. Dont stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. If you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling numbness or muscle weakness. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. 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Mark, the 2020 democratic field has already been very crowded, and just in the last week or two we start hearing even more names; bloomberg, Deval Patrick, i keep hearing rumors that maybe john kerry might consider getting back in the race. The person you worked for, Hillary Clinton, wont rule out a run. Maybe, you know, who knows, al gore [laughter] you know, how is this going to shape up . Well, look, ive been saying for quite some time that it was likely that one of bloomberg or Hillary Clinton or john kerry or a couple of others would get in the race given the fact that no one in the field was break over 30 in the polls consistently. And i think you saw that bloomberg saw an opportunity, and hes moving forward, and i think hes very much moving forward and will have a strong candidacy e if biden doesnt really pull it through in the early states. I think it puts a lot of pressure, you know, on the biden campaign. Look, i think hillary, ive said, could get in, has a tremendously positive rating with democrats. If not a nationally strong rating. But i think the window is now really closing. These are really the last couple of days that someone can get in and i think really play in enough states to make a difference or get in in a meaningful way. Gerry you really do think that Hillary Clinton, i mean, you know, two time twice shes run, twice shes failed . Are you hearing a lot of clamor for her to get in . I know she said this week that many, many, many people are calling on her to run. Is that true. Well, you know, i ran a poll recently in which we put hillary, bloomberg and kerry in the mix, and she was tied with biden. So i think theres no doubt that shes looking at a strong possibility of coming back. And remember nixon had the nomination twice and was given a second chance. Look, im not, im not selling it or unselling it. Im giving an observation that theres a realistic opportunity for her. I think had he prison above the fray after losing risen above the fray after losing 2016, i think she would have been in a much better position. Thats not exactly what she did. But if we dont hear from her in the next couple days, i think you can consider that book closed. Gerry do you think we will . I think at this i give it about a 40 chance. So, you know, no one has a very high probability of getting in or being president , but, you know, at this point i would have thought she would have made the decision about now. Gerry all these names from the past bloomberg, hillary, john kerry, others what does it say about the current state of the democratic race that all these other people might be considering or actually are getting into it . Well, it say within the Democrat Party theres been a bit of a leadership gap, particularly a lot of the Office Holders have held onto their offices, and is so they didnt really give an opportunity for the next generation to advance. I think in many ways when you look at the overall age of either, a lot of the candidates and the potential candidates. And so this leadership gap, i think, is emerging here where the strongest new leadership is coming out more on the left, and 40 president of democrat 40 of democratic voters are moderate. They saw biden as a potential leader, and as you said, his campaign look, i wouldnt count him out by any means. Political figures have a way of coming back from being down and out. If you can come back in hawaii hawaii in iowa and new hampshire, i think bloomberg would probably not bother. But hes got to do that if hes going to take the democratic nomination. By the way, i think its likely going to the convention. I dont see anybody right new in this field now in this field getting a majority of democrats the way gerry right. Theyve changed the way that its, essentially, proportional delegate allocation from each state, just about. If you get 15 or more, you get your proportional share of the delegates. In virtually every state, and that then makes it very difficult for somebody to get momentum and then carry through in the big states the way the republican primaries switch over. Gerry a brokeredded convention. Journalists have been dreaming journalists have been dreaming about it most people think of verizon as a reliable phone company. woman but to businesses, were a reliable partner. We Keep Companies ready for whats next. man we weave security into their business. Virtualize their operations. woman and build ai customer experiences. We also keep them ready for the next big opportunity. Like 5g. Almost all the fortune 500 partner with us. woman when it comes to digital transformation. Verizon keeps business ready. Diamonds shine like me. Theyre strong. Theyre brilliant. I am a diamond. Find beautiful diamond styles for all the diamonds in your life, including you. Get 25 off everything. 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That was easy glad i could help. At xfinity, were here to make life simple. Easy. Awesome. So come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today. Gerry strategist and pollster mark penn is with me. One reason why this is so much momentum in so many people considering getting in the race is that bluntly theres concern about Elizabeth Warren. They think she probably is the frontrunner. The early days, of course, we dont know. And if she gets the mom nation, she nomination, she simply cant beat President Trump. Too liberal, her Health Care Plans just completely unimaginable. Do you think thats right . I think that its a very, very difficult course for Elizabeth Warren to beat President Trump and her 50 trillion plus Health Care Plan that would eliminate all private insurance, i think, was a huge setback to the momentum that she was having. I think people were listening to the overall great slogans, medicare for all, lets have reduce inequality, claiming she was a capitalist compared to Bernie Sanders being a true socialist, and then out comes this program that i think became a huge liability and then created both fear and opportunity; fear that if she got the nomination, that she would lose to President Trump, and opportunity in the sense that then there was a new opening that bloomberg and perhaps other will get into. Gerry she did, her numbers do seem to have stalled in the last month or so. She seemed to be on very much a continuous upward trajectory, but she seem to have stall out. Well, a 50 trillion plan will do that for you. [laughter] gerry what about Bernie Sanders in this contest for the ultraliberal vote, is it possible that he could still somehow steal the nomination as he tried to do in 2016 . Well, i think hes got a constituency, particularly among younger voters, he does fairly well with latinos. He was the first really for free college, and i think the real, i think, issue here will those two fight each other to the end or the at the convention or otherwise one of them drop out or get together. If they get together, i suspect they will achieve close to a majority voting bloc, and it will be up to the, up to the superdelegates to really decide it. But separately, its pretty difficult for either one of them to get the full nomination. Gerry as we stand now from your polling and your judgment, which candidate, democratic candidate has the best shot of beating President Trump . Of existing candidates or dream candidate that you could imagine. Oh, i definitely think biden has the best chance of beating President Trump because what did President Trump do . President trump took the working class voters out of the democratic column and put them in his column. At the same time, suburban voters that had been staying republican have now in the midterms trended quite significantly democratic. So youre seeing a realignment of the whole country. To win, trump needs to hold onto his working class voters and win the suburbs, and thats the problem he has. Biden significantly cuts into his working class constituency. With him as the nominee, unless he in general doesnt fare as well as he has in the past, he could make significant inroads in the midwest. Gerry what are bidens biggest negatives . Well, look, people are questioning in some way whether those gaffes are representative of his ability, and i think some of the things that happened with his son and whether he was or was not attentive to it are real issues. And so those two are emerging. I dont think its affecting his democratic support because the people who are supporting him just really, really like him, you know . They see him as uncle joe, they see him as honest, they see him as having helped president obama. The problem is he has not been able to grow beyond thatting constituency. Gerry finally, because weve got to wrap up, mark, democrats do have a habit of sort of spreading themselves out, trying all kinds of contenders. Somebody reminded me at this stage in what was then the 2004 democratic race which was eventually, obviously, run by john kerry, wesley clark was leading at that point. And we also had, of course, howard dean. So there is a tendency for democrats to sort of try out something new, isnt there . Before they come home, as it were. In the very first poll i ever did in 975, we left 1975, we left out one of the president ial candidates. Who is it . Jimmy carter. No, forget about it. [laughter] so, yes, theres a tendency for there to be real surprise. On the other hand, the problem here no one has a clear majority say, you know with, gore had or Hillary Clinton had. And at the same time, a number of candidates have significant constituencies that theyre going to be holding onto, and thats why i think youre going to wind up at a convention. Gerry thanks, mark. My thanks to mark penn. And just ahead, why the impeachment investigation in the house could impact a lot more than Donald Trumps presidency. I saved hundreds on my Car Insurance when i switched to geico. And this is how it made me feel. It was like that feeling when you go to taco night at your favorite restaurant. And theyre the besttasting tacos in the entire world. And just when you think it couldnt get any better, they bring you out another taco. Cuz they made an extra one. Extra taco geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on Car Insurance. Fifteen minutes could save you beyond the routine checkups. Beyond the notsoroutine cases. Comcast business is helping doctors provide care in whole new ways. 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The spectacle less about fulfilling constitutional obligation and more about appealing to voters as they go to the polls next year. The democrats hope the attention will sow doubts and spur their own supporters to come out to the polls. Republicans think exactly the same, only the other way around. The problem here is the supposedly rare and unique constitutional thought of impeachment. And with an election less than a year away, surely a better chance to try a president s judgment. Please be sure to follow me on twitter, facebook and instagram. Ill be back next week light here on right here on the wall street journal at large. Thank you for joining me. Barrons round table sponsored by this week john stein on how the robo adviser is taking on the banking industry. The worlds most Profitable Company is poised to go public next month. And Holly Newman Cross joins the panel on how you can create an income stream after retirement. The barrons round table starts now. Welcome to barrons round table where the sharpest minds on wall street prepare you for the week ahead. Im jack otter. We begin with what we think are the three most important things investors should be thinking about right now. Were heading into a big week for retail earnings with implications for the housing market, upcoming holiday sales and more. Kkr making a play for walgreens in what could be the largest leveraged buyout on record. Are similar deals on the horizon . And aramco set to go public next month, what impact will it have on the oil market and stocks . My colleagues, ben leveson, laura ruin lin and jack howe. Jack, lets briefly mention at the very end of the day on friday the market nosed above 28,000, the dow above 28,000 for the first time, so traders will head in with a mile as they rerue retail earnings, home depot versus lowes, the battle that one team always seems to win. Yeah, its not much of a battle. Home depots always better. Lowes stock is usually cheap because home deusually does better depot usually does better. This is the era of no excuses in retail. If you own shares of a store chain and theyre not doing well, its not the consumer, people dont like them, people dont need them. Consumer spendings probably going to grow 3 this holiday season, maybe 4 . Walmart just put up the best numbers its had in years, target doing very well taking share from some of the chains that are struggling. Theres an ugly bunch thats going to be reporting this coming week macys, l brands, i would throw gap in there. If theyre not killing it right now, the environment is not going to get better. Jack is there a road back . Im worried that sometimes you hear a myth that retail is struggling right now because the consumers not strong enough. The consumer is fine, spending is fine. Retail is struggling because we have too many stores, and some of these are chains that we dont quite need anymore. I dont want any part of a turnaround story in retail right now. Theres some parts of the market where, you know, turnarounds look interesting. Retails not one of them. Jack ben, lets go to you on saudi aramco. Huge ipo with some interesting stuff going on behind the scenes as to who actually wants to own that. Tell us whats happening. So saudi arabia has this large oil company which is responsible for handling all the oil that they have which is a lot of oil. A ton of oil. Theyve been wanting to ipo this for four years now. The country was trying to get a 2 trillion valuation. There have been problems along the way falling oil prices, the murder of the journalist, khashoggi, things like that. Looks like its going to happen now. Jack why are they choosing this moment to do it in in they know were going to hit peak oil atom point, and they also know they cant rely on having an economy thats just reliant on oil. So they need the money to build out other industries. So theyre going to sell some of this off to investors both in saudi arabia and Institutional Investors around the world. Youre not going to get a valuation on in the same as you would on an exxon or a chevron. This is a totalitarian country, and they get lower valuations than other companies. Jack and its not even going to be available to individual investors, right . An institutional play . An institutional play. There are going to be Retail Investors who can get it in saudi arabia it, i but the for me and you, itll end up in some of of the mutual funds that we own. Jack and some will probably refuse to own it because of the issues jack a raised. Lauren, you are talking about walgreens which is getting the hairy eyeball from one of the original barbarians at the gate. The barbarians back at the gate, jack. Kkr is looking at doing a 70 billion leveraged buyout of walgreens. This would be the biggest leveraged buyout ever, but its really not about drugstores, its about debt and the fact that debt is very cheap today because we have such low Interest Rates. So theres a desire to lend at low rates, and theres a desire to buy. Jack you dont have to have great returns on a company as long as you can get up off that low bar. Thats exactly right. Weve seen the appetite, basically 30 billion in bonds to finish its deal for allergen. They make botox. [laughter] i look at walgreens, im thinking are they eyeing cvs. Theyre moving to health care. We now think of cvs as a health care company. Maybe theres some sort of way to expand or extend this business to address health care and, you know, grab some of that margin instead of trying to show more in the candy kyle. Jack can you explain that dynamic, maybe they could cobble together that sam sort of theres so much cost bloat at hospitals and other places that if you can offer Health Care Services at a drug chain like this where you face a lot of consumers, you could do so at a much lower price, and it helps if you want a health ensurer who can steer patients in the door. Jack ben has even had an experience with this, right . Its caremark, which is cvss pdm. At some point youre basically told you have to go on caremark otherwise youre going to have to fix the drugs yourself. Jack coming up, you cant just save money for retirement, you also have to plan on how youll spend it. The panel comes back with how to create an income stream in retirement. But first, barrons exclusive interview with ceo jon stein on the success of row bow advisers and why the Investment Firm is branching out into banking. Thats next. Only one things more exciting than getting a lexus. Wow giving one. How did you guys. . Dont ask. The lexus december to rembember sales event get 0 percent apr for 60 months on all 2019 models. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Im part of a community of problem solvers. We make ideas grow. From an everyday solution. To one that can take on a bigger challenge. From packaging tape. To tape that can bond materials to buildings. And planes. One idea can unlock a breadth of solutions. At 3m, we are solving problems that improve lives. Mornings were made for Better Things than Rheumatoid Arthritis or Psoriatic Arthritis. When considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz xr, a oncedaily pill for adults with moderate to severe Rheumatoid Arthritis or active Psoriatic Arthritis for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. It can reduce pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. Xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections like tb; dont start xeljanz if you have an infection. Taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra can increase risk of death. Serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. As have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, and changes in lab results. Tell your doctor if youve been somewhere fungal infections are common, or if youve had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. Dont let another morning go by without asking your doctor about xeljanz xr. Fidelity has zero commissions for online u. S. Equity trades and etfs, plus zero minimums to open a brokerage account. With value like this, there are zero reasons to invest anywhere else. Fidelity. Jon stein launched an insurgency. He created betterment, an Online Business investment environment that creates portfolios. Today his startup manages 20 billion for nearly half a million customers. Newcomers have challenged him, and the biggest names in finance have copy him. Jon stein joins us now to explain how he plans the stay ahead. Would you just explain the Value Proposition . Why would an investor go to betterment . Sure. Betterment is the first smart money manager. Customers come to us, and they want to manage their investments in retirement. And if you use our tools and advice about how to save and all of our tax optimization, we can earn you 38 more cash over 30 years towards retirement than if you were to invest without with piece on your own somewhere else. Thats a huge amount of value, and now were bringing that same value into everyday money. Jack so i go online, i answer those questions you mention, and then you build a portfolio of etfs for me. Whats the basic investing philosophy behind that allocation . Think of it like a globally diversified portfolio for each one of your goals. So if youre investing for a down payment on a house, well have a relatively conservative portfolio, because thats a short time horizon today. And if youre investing for retirement over 30plus years, thats going to be more aggressive, more heavily stockbased portfolio. And each of those will have a glide path for you to adjust that over time, well manage the taxes. So theres a lot of optimization that were doing every day to improve your returns jack a former Financial Adviser once said to me that the best thing she ever did for clients was act as their psychiatrist. So when the market was going crazy and they wanted to put everything in she said, hold on, its going to fall someday. And when it did fall, she said stick around. For your clients who dont use financial ad vicars advisers, if theyre online only, how do they react when, say, back in december the market was down 5, 18 . Did they all cut and run . Fortunately, no. [laughter] we wouldnt have much of a business. Weve had a lot of ups and downs over the last ten years. Weve had some times when the market was down 15 or 20 . And in those times youve seen customers today the course. Weve also ab tested a lot of different behavioral controls. For instance, we show customers before they make a transaction whats the tax impact of that transaction. Because we would rather that you dont trade. And when customers see a taxable event, 75 of them decide not to make that transaction. And thats an incredible result. Jack so speak of humans, you now have humans. How many do you have, and what is their role . Is it holistic advice . Theyll do your will and Everything Else too . We work with advisers all across the country, and if you have an adviser, you can use that adviser. We also have our own advisers inhouse, and you can call our cfps and talk to them about, yeah, how to plan for college, how to build a retirement plan, should you buy or rent a home, these kinds of common questions that our customers ask. Jack so now youre going into banking. Youve got checking accounts and savings accounts. Tell us about that. Are you just going to charge me fees and give me tiny little Interest Rates while you make money on the arbitrage . Is that how its going to work for betterment . Our mission to empower our customers, to do whats best with their money so they can live better. Weve been spending ten years building the best investment and Retirement Solutions on the market, so we realize we couldnt really fulfill that mission of empowering customers to do whats best with their money without managing their everyday cash. If i can help a customer save 5 more per year by taking smart amounts and saving them and banking them boo their iras when i can, if i can help them earn more on that idle cash by putting it into a highyield savings account, things like this, i can help that customer much more than if i were to save them a marginal, say, 1 on taxes every year. Jack so i think the Interest Rate is interesting because you pay 1. 6, 1 is. 5 on checking, and both banks lend out at high rates whats your path to probability . 25 basis points is what you charge investors, how can you make money eventually at that level . So were not public yet. Our aspiration is to ipo in a few years, and yet we have a great Business Model. Were able to serve these half a million customers with just 300 employees. Were very efficient in how we deliver our solution, and its scalable, right . Adding banking services, for us, creates another way to everybody our customers, to do more for them, and that just improves the Business Model further. Jack so doubling isnt going to mean 600 employees. Thats right. Jack thanks very much, jon. Coming up, our ideas on what you can do right now to improve your portfolio. But first, Holly Newman Kroft gets a seat at the round table. Thats next. Beyond the routine checkups. Beyond the notsoroutine cases. 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Investors put a lot of effort into saving enough money for retirement, but then comes a different challenge, how to manage that nest egg after you retire to you dont run out of money. In this weeks cover story, barrons focuses on what you can do to create ab income stream during an income stream during retirement. Joining the round table, hol hi are newman kroft. Holly newman kroft. Lauren, i want to start with you, what are we looking at in this weeks baer rons. We have a whole cover package on how to spend what youve managed to save. And we lead off looking at the role of dividends in a retirement portfolio, and we look at ways that companies which have helped employees set up 401 k s and other ways of saving are now starting to help them withdraw money at the appropriate times whether its through system mat ific withdrawals or adding anaughty product annuity product. Jack holly, you work with clients who face this or will soon. Whats the big picture . What is the problem that theyre trying to solve . I think the problem is how to manage yourself through retirement, have enough money so that you dont have to compromise your lifestyle in an environment where you have to build a portfolio that has some risk. You know, many years ago, 20 years ago you could have a portfolio that returned 7 , 100 in fixed income. You certainly cant do that today. Jack because bonds were yielding 6, 7 . Correct, yeah. Jack so, lauren, one way were attacking now is income stocks at least can send off, what, 2 or 3 or 4 if you want to push it. Exactly. And part of the idea in our dividend story is do you live off the dividends, or do you live off a combination of the dividends and the principal. How do you address that . Yeah, i think you have live off a combination. We look at a total portfolio return, because sometimes you have to stretch for yield in order to support your lifestyle, and we think that in doing so you would be taking unintended risks. So if you look at a combination of appreciation and yields, you can manage that in a tax efficient way and maintain your life. And do you do it through a combination of funds and individual stocks, or do you stick just with funds . Well, it depends on the client. It certainly depends on the size of the portfolio, but i think its a combination of funds and separately managed accounts, but we would call smas, i think its through a combination of active management and passive management, i think its through diversification. Even people who are on the cusp of retirement, you know they should have a certain percentage in stocks and theyre telling you the markets at alltime highs, im worried about the crash. What do you do, do you yell at them, scold them this. That doesnt usually go over so well. [laughter] i dont think that there is a certain percentage that any one person should have in stocks. We dont believe in model portfolios, so you have to look at every sing client, how much single client, how much money they have, how much risk they can stand. We certainly want our clients to be able to sleep at night too. But what we explain is we dont you to have to compromise your lifestyle, so the earlier you start saving, the earlier in your investment lifestyle you take risks, the more you can tilt it safe when youre on the i should be saving. I knew i was doing something wrong. Jack theres something called the 4 rule, you can take 4 percent out of your portfolio and supposedly you hope itll last the rest of your life. Do you subscribe to that . I think its a really good starting point. You can spend 4 of your portfolio without dipping dip p, thats the concept. So you would probably target your portfolio to return about 6 so that you can compensate for the spend as well as inflation. And although inflations been so low for so many years, the expected return can or expected inflation is 2 . Jack obviously, it is so hard to get income right now. Are there any areas that look juicy to you that maybe the market has missed . Good areas for income . And on the other side, any really scary areas youre staying away from . Nothing so scary. We like preferreds. They have a nice yield sort of a hybrid kind of stock with a bigger dividend. Correct. Its about 56 , and if its fixed to float, it doesnt have a big risk of inflation, so we do like that. We like high yields, but we think you have to be careful. We like active management because i think in the index theres a huge allocation to one sector, is so theres some unintended risks that you may not be aware of. We like emerging market debt, although its quite volatile and risky, it has a nice yield. But, again, we believe in active management there because within the index you may not know that its over 50 allocated to china and sure. Thats a big risk too. Jack go ahead. Finding those capital gain stocks to sell when the market is up like this, its easy. What to you do like at the end of 2018 . Do you feel you have to change anything at those timeses . If you look at the context of the last ten years, weve had almost nothing but gains. So at the end of 08 sorry, 18, you could offset with losses, and it was really an opportunistic entry point. If you had some dry powder or you were holding some cash, if you had taken some gains over the summer, you could go back into the market. Jack people dont understand sometimes losses are a good thing, you can harvest them the, save on taxes finish. Yeah, they dont understand sometimes taxes is are a good thing. Theyre sort of a high class problem sometimes. Jack thank you so much. Thats a perspective we dont see too often. 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Lets talk. Were built for hearing whats important to you, one to one. Edward jones. Its time for investing to feel individual. Jack, we heard from a entrepreneur doing a startup trying to disrupt the banking industry, youre writing about the biggest of the Big Tech Companies trying to get into banking. Yeah, the google check account. All they need to do the work is a bank to do the actual banking. This is a story apple has a credit card, they just need a bank, Goldman Sachs, you know, to do the banking part, the plumbing part of it. Googles relying on citibank. This is an antidisruption story. Jack exactly. The profits have been remarkably steady over the past 130 years, there was a study last year that showed that. We keep hearing about fintech disruption, none of these Companies Want to carry a big book of credit. Look how much flak apple caught recently over that card and charges of gender bias. Never mind that Goldman Sachs handing the actual handling the actual portion of that. Lending and love about do not go hand in hand, big tech wants no part of this. Jpmorgan and citigroup, i see those as good buys right here. Jack everyone loves their iphone, right . People, i use google all day long. I dont know that many people who say i love my bank. [laughter] so why would a google or an apple want to even get into that business . I dont think they do. And you hear about all sorts of upstart companies, theyve got a great checking account, low fees. Look, offering the customers easy checking, thats the easy part of the business. Now turn that into a profitable loan book, thats the hard part. Jack in barrons tradition, we want you to go into the week ahead ready to make your next move, so give us one actionable idea. Lauren, weve been talking a lot about income. Youre on the income cook. The Vanguard Dividend Growth Fund reopened in august, its got a stellar record, about 11 total return over five years, yields about 5. 5 . And buys defensible dividend growers. Jack and for you, ben, its chicken. Pilgrims pride. The stock has doubled this year, but it can go even further. The alternative to alternative meat, i might say. [laughter] jack thank you, guys. To read more, check out this weeks edition at barrons. Com, and dont forget to follow i on twitter. Thats all for us, see you next week on the barrons round table. Lou good evening, the radical dimms impeachment extravaganza rolls on. But unfortunately for schiff and the dimms they are more promotion than production. Three star witnesses up, three abysmal performances. If this is schiffs trial run, hes done. The factors of the schiff impeachment turkey keep propping this mess up but they should bring the curtain down on it all. Today they trotted out the former ambassador to