Together, has woken up, gradually europe is waking up, i would like to see more, of course, something. , no, the ministers statements defense made me a little wary of italy, because he was such a supporter of ours, well , a serious one, and there it got to the point that the russians compromised him, tried to do whatever they wanted, but. He had everything politically in history, but now he says that well, its difficult, difficult, but to win, its difficult, but if we change this story, which is difficult, its very difficult now, for the ukrainians first of all, but they also have such a, you know, pause, it seems that the decision is already being made, lets build up already, you understand , we will not go anywhere, we need to produce weapons, we need everything, this it is necessary to do, but there is still such a hope, or maybe this stage is, if it is like this, you know. When, when the Decisive Action comes, it comes before when everyone begins to get tired and expect the end, and then it comes, or soso, soso ending, which no one likes from the point of view of development, but the ending, or Something Like that happens, so that it is simply brought to a logical end, so everyone is focused on the elections in the United States, november 5. Yes, well, count on november 5 plus a few months, but for some reason, there it is february, i understand that before the inauguration, before the swearingin of the new president , well, it is january 20, but the question is not that, i think that this is an exaggeration, its just that in the heads of people , well, people, the president s, have this date 5 november elections in the usa, and anything can happen, the situation can change like this, we didnt expect an attack on israel there, but there, for example, it affected the situation. The same can happen here, so we have to hold on, unfortunately the situation is such that we cannot expect from this summit radical changes in our direction, but it also lays certain foundations for the future, another short topic, just these days the president of the European Parliament, roberta metzola, visited ukraine, at a press conference in kyiv on europe day, she announced that the negotiations on the accession of ukraine were officially to. The eu should start by the end of the first half of the 24th year. Lets hear what she said. Accession negotiations should begin as soon as possible. I am optimistic that the nonnegotiable framework will be adopted by the eu member states. In june the European Parliament will help ukraine in all possible ways to move forward along the european path. And we are. I promise, we will stay and will continue to loudly declare our support for ukraine, as evidenced by my visit today. Mr. Valery, what determines the speed of ukraines progress towards the European Union . From the date of ukraines accession to nato . Is it the pace . That is, if the date of accession to nato is determined, the pace of accession to the European Union will also be determined. Of course, because in principle, my position is that without security, with security fixations in europe it is impossible to continue to talk about the investment of large sums in terms of investments, economic development, it will go, it will go now, well, if at a short stage, it depends on what , well, it depends on the essence of our specific actions to achieve the requirements that were set there now, and well, but. I believe that european integration is where we will have a lot of disputes with our neighbors, with poles, romanians, slovaks there, a heated sector, and it would be wrong. If we thought that joining the eu would solve the security issue, no, yes it wont happen, so its logical, its security, well, now nato, maybe another scenario, further acceleration of the pace of accession, i. E. , very briefly, the end of the war, ukraines entry into nato and the eu, well, roughly so, despite what mytsola says , that by the end of the first half of the year we will start on the 24th, it does not take away from him. At the time of the negotiations, there are 60 of them in turkey, some year, yes, yes, yes, well, it has been there for more than 510 years, so no, we should have it sooner, of course, but i stand my ground, the key for ukraine is security, nato or another model, and the eu is already a derivative thing. Thank you, mr. Valery, friends, i want to say and thank valery chalam for participating in the program, ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary of ukraine, former ambassador of ukraine to the United States of america, and a person who knows. About ukrainian diplomacy, about not only ukrainian diplomacy, about world diplomacy, everything. There are discounts, represented by mays 20 tizin discount at psyllanyk, bam and oskad pharmacies. Allergy, neche lev will overcome citrelev. Ci3lev neo protects against the most common allergens. Vasyls Big Broadcast zyma, this is the great ether, my name is vasyl zyma, and we are starting, two hours of air time, two hours of your time, many important topics we will discuss with you today, two hours to learn about the war, right now we will talk more about the war , Serhiy Zgurets is with us, and how the world is living, now about what has happened in the world, yuriy fizar will speak in more detail, yuriy, good evening, please have a word. Hours to keep up with economic news, time to talk about money in wartime. Oleksandr morchyvka from we, oleksandr, would like to welcome you to sports news, a review of Sports Events by yevhen pastukhov. 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Greetings, friends, the second part of the verdict program is live on the tv channel, my name is serhii rudenko, and today we have a journalism club, and today we will talk about the following. Fifth putins president ial term. Coronation of the kremlin dictator as an attempt to legitimize his power. What threats does it pose to ukraine and the world . Kubrakov is leaving the cabinet of ministers. One of zelenskys closest allies is no longer needed by his team. What government reform is planned in the office of the president . Above all, the war changes the political values of the society, why ukrainians no longer believe that a strong leader is more important for the country than a democratic system. Throughout our broadcast, today we ask you about whether you agree that democracy more important for ukraine than a strong leader . Yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have your own separate opinion, please leave it in the comments. Under this video, and of course, subscribe to our platforms on youtube and facebook, where you can now see us live, also on these platforms. I would like to introduce the guests of todays studio, they are my colleagues, andrii yanitskyi, journalist of the tv channel, andriya, congratulations, and kateryna nekreche, journalist of radio liberty. Kateryna, i welcome you, thank you for joining to our broadcast. Greetings, colleagues and viewers of espresso. Thank you. Thank you kateryna, colleagues, since we are asking our tv viewers and viewers whether they agree that democracy is more important for ukraine than a strong leader, lets do a quick poll. Lets try to find out what you think, andriy, i think that after all , in general, the question is asked about the leader of democracy in a strange way, because all ukrainians should be strong leaders, well, at least in each, in every community, in every city there should be leaders of public opinion, leaders, activists, mayors who are elected, after all, we have passed the stage of decentralization, and when democracy is opposed to a strong leader, well. It is not about a leader, it is about a dictator, it is about some authoritarian leader, the leader is usually not one, there are several of them, and one leader within the country leads other leaders, thats how i perceived it. Thank you, andriy, kateryna, well, it seems to me that our last history there for 30 years shows that it is probably cool when there is a balance, on the one hand, because to lead. Ukrainians and just tell them what to do there yes or no, no matter who the leader is, in time we will still, lets say, whether in the elections, well now because of the war later it will be, yes, but nevertheless, whether in the elections, or by our dissatisfaction or antiratings, it will be it is clear that the actions of one or another leader, politician, they are not satisfied with something, so it seems to me that ideally it should be a balance, and yes, of course, according to the characteristics of all of us. With you, then, for sure, a firm hand is not necessary, although, if you look at the leaders of all Political Parties over the years of independent ukraine, those parties were named after specific politicians there, and this is also important for ukrainians, so probably the key to success is in the balance of this, well, we had leadership parties and there were quite a few of them at one time, there were their own leaders, headliners who in fact, they dragged the whole. List, even when there was no name on it, for example, the servant of the people party, everyone understood that it was a leadershiptype party, where the leader is zelenskyi and, even more, the majority of deputies who came to the Verkhovna Rada of ukraine , that too there were people who were anonymous, but they came, as they joked about the passport of one person, volodymyr zelensky, that is why we actually ask about democracy, about a strong leader, because the results of sociological data led us to this survey. Kyiv International Institute of sociology, they show that ukrainians have changed their opinion about democracy in recent years, now they believe that a democratic system is more important for ukraine than a strong leader. If in october of the 20th year, 54 of respondents answered that ukraine has a strong leader more important than the democratic system, and 31 answered about the priority of democracy, while in december 23rd, on the contrary, 59 answered. That a democratic system is more important for ukraine, and only 32 spoke in favor of a strong leader. Andriy, why could this correlation of these data occur, and it is quite serious, if 32 and there are 54 that is about a third, well, this is a classic electoral cycle, when the president who has just been elected, has great faith in him, and of course ukrainians at that moment in the 20th year. Still hoped that their hopes for zelenskyi will come true, including her, people voted for different reasons, we remember that Election Campaign of zelenskyi, when nothing concrete was promised, and everyone saw in him someone of their own, their ideal, and first of all, some new face, which will replace the old politicians, and in recent years, when it became clear what trends there are, that a new face is hiding behind a new face, including old politicians, and it became clear that the procedures, and democracy is a procedure, first of all, procedures work better than, faces, faces change, and the procedures remain, well, of course, since we are talking about a strong leader, about democratic. Procedures, we cannot help but mention that during the war, the elections to the Verkhovna Rada of ukraine before and the president ial elections will not take place, it seems that everyone here has come to an understanding, well, at least with the Verkhovna Rada clearly, the legislation is foreseen there, there is no decision of the Constitutional Court regarding the president ial powers, but we also understand that the next president will replace the current one, when such an opportunity, that is, when the president ial elections will be held. But the Russian Federation is now emphasizing that from may 21, 2024 , zelensky may be illegitimate, at the same time. Ukraines Denys Malyuska assured in an interview with the bbc that the president of ukraine zelensky will not lose his legitimacy after the end of his fiveyear term of office, that is , on may 21, 2024, lets listen to what the minister of justice said . No, he will not lose his legitimacy, the powers of the president last until the election of the next one, but a lot many norms of the constitution are formulated in such a way that whoever wants to find. Something to find fault with or something to build some theory on from the language, he will find it, so certainly a lot of noise and shouting should be expected, and especially based on the fact that the authorsdevelopers of the constitution had little faith in the realism of a fullscale war with the participation of ukraine, therefore they behaved quite clumsily in relation to the relevant ones. Which are prescribed in the constitution, well, at a time when these norms of the constitution, which Denys Malyuska complains about, are not fully prescribed, or until there are some specific issues, obviously the arbitrator is the Constitutional Court, because only the Constitutional Court has the right to interpret the norms of the basic law and give certain verdicts. Kateryna, in your opinion, why the president ial team did not follow such a traditional path is constitutional. The court that interprets the constitution, moreover, the question of legitimacy, the further legitimacy of zelenskyi could simply be fixed by the decision of the Constitutional Court and shown to everyone, including not only ukrainians, but also leaders of western countries, because russia, in principle, uses this and is trying to torpedo our western partners and say listen, you will give weapons there, and there the president , his powers have already come to an end, and in general, as lavrov says, we, we will not at all. On may 24, because, as the kremlin says, he is nobody to us. Well, in principle, we understand that for russia the arguments there are unimportant, how they are in fact is also unimportant, therefore any situation from a propaganda point of view can be twisted, here we can mention that in gur, for example, it has been reported for a long time his about what is there, a special operation. 3 or whatever they call it, that is, that there is a certain information wave, a threat, we can now basically see how it works in several aspects, the topic of the illegitimacy of the president of ukraine is developing, it is developing very strongly there a negative view of the work of the tsc there and the distribution of all such scandalous videos, for example, and there are such weak point shots, why in the president s office they do this and not another way, its hard to say, maybe it is. Because im not a lawyer here, but with those experts with whom they talked, well it looks like, well, legally, there is no question of legitimacy or illegitimacy, perhaps it would be better to communicate more widely, more precisely, with ukrainians, with the population and emphasize this, although it seems to me that the majority, all who live in our state , understand the realities, the war and what the elections are. Indeed, it is impossible to hold it there, if there are legal factors, and the president cannot leave his post, and until another president is elected there, and legally it is normal, then it is possible, if there is distrust in society, then it is worth somehow to such more significant, lets say, factors, but if this is enough for argumentation and ukrainians have the trust of the International Community as well and there is no doubt that president zelenskyi is not. Illegitimate, then perhaps, in this way, the question is only in the way russian propaganda will rock it . Well, russian propaganda, as always, lies, and well, it is clear that their goal is completely different, that is, not to record the filigree or legality of this or that decision, although, well, in this situation with kaes, it seems to me that one thing is another there was a fear that the Constitutional Court would make some kind of decision that would not be entirely acceptable, or lets say, the lack of it. The decision of the Constitutional Court allows us to talk about the legitimacy of president zelenskyi without any problems, and maybe in this situation it might even be better, although i am a supporter there are legislative procedures and the correctness of decisions regarding the Constitutional Court, although, although, if we recall the same leonid kuchma, there was also a decision of the Constitutional Court regarding the second term of kochma in the early 2000s. Because according to the 1996 constitution, the president did not have the right to serve twice to hold the presidency, and this norm is in force now, but kuchma was elected in 1994. Year before the adoption of the first time, before the adoption of the constitution of 1996, well, in the early 2000s, they decided to count how many president ial terms Leonid Danylovych served, and it turned out that if before the adoption of the constitution it was one term, after its adoption it was also the first , and then the second one is possible, but the political situation there developed in such a way that kuchma had to agree to the fact that in 2004. He should resign, because the cassette scandal, and the murder of heorhiy gangadz, there were many things that simply did not allow him to take advantage of this decision of the Constitutional Court, but andriy, in this story, of course, when the russians are spinning this story with the legitimacy or illegitimacy of zelenskyi, obviously ukrainian propaganda should have been more active, not only diplomacy, but also propaganda, pumping up the topic of putins illegitimacy, because we see how the socalled nation. Nation of the socalled president , the socalled putin, took place on may 7, and we see that the world, a part of the world, or delegated its representatives, six european states were represented there, or statements were made that the elections were not completely free, but we recognize that putin is at the head of the russian state, have we told the world enough, and does the world want to hear that. Putin , since may 7, 2024, he is a selfproclaimed president , he is a usurper of power, he is a person who commits war crimes and it is recorded by the International Criminal court, but at the same time, he is a person who conducts elections in occupied territories, of a foreign country and issues these data as part of its own victory, we certainly feel it. Moreover, it hurts us the most in countries that are far from russia, citizens who live far from russia, they do not feel it, and for them the imitation of russian elections, well, is equal to the elections that they hear about from other countries, so here is propaganda russia is in a winning position, indeed, when it says that the ukrainians did not hold the elections, but we did. And for people who do not go into details, for them it sounds convincing, but the western elites, of course, they know and understand the situation, including with legitimacy or illegitimacy of the russian president , the question of why some western countries sent their representatives to his inauguration lies not only in the plane of his legal legitimacy, but also in the actual. Military moment of russia in nuclear weapons, with which Russia Threatens the world, and in attempts to leave some door for negotiations with putin in order not to cause this nuclear conflict, this is how the western elites explain their continued communication with the russian dictator. Katerina, you, as obviously we all, in one way or another followed what happened during the inauguration, how putin behaved, what statements he made, it is clear that he spoke again about nuclear weapons, about the fact that we will not allow anyone, we have strategic weapons, and everyone should understand all this, but with from the point of view of a person who was actually crowned, and who, probably, should no longer be called, including with. Our western partners, the president , well, is it the head of russia or the leader of russia or, the dictator of russia, well, there are such definitions somewhere, thats how he looked, did he look confident, the fifth president ial term, 24 years in great power on the leaders of russia, that is, how you saw putin, you would rather not see it, but here you can remark, but a. Actually, well, looking at putin, especially the last 10 years, after the beginning of the invasion of ukraine, working in the crimea realia project, where we did a lot of broadcasts there, paid attention to what he said, and constantly followed his press conferences there and everything, i, like everyone, probably who watches journalists there, can say that on the one hand i am an expert there, on the other hand, we dont know doubles, not doubles, so it doesnt matter, he, well, he has yes. His appearance and manner of presenting information, which, for example, i would not, as a leader there, i would not like him and listen to him, for me he is fundamentally unsure of many things and. His behavior and appearance in a bad way for me , that characterizes him, but despite that, there is already a completely different field in russia, and by the way, when we talk about legitimacy or not, and are we sure that not the majority of russians, they support vladimir putin, do not the majority really votes for him, well, we have some polls, we can do that to pay attention, but we see how the russianukrainian war is going, how these people are recruited into the army there and. Then when they become prisoners, what they say, what their relatives say, well, there is obviously putin as well, for support unfortunately, this is probably not the only problem of ukraine, in principle the whole system, well, relatively speaking, there will be no putin, this does not mean that the russian, ukrainian war, it will stop and thats it, russia will withdraw its troops, absolutely not, so everything to me it seems more global and scarier than the very figure of vladimir putin, whom you can visit there to complain about this ceremony in the sense that for a very long time he was going somewhere. This is very strange, as always on the day of the victory they have a background of those older people who are presented as veterans, and there, based on age , it is in principle clear that this is for sure there are the children of war, and that is why he rallies around the war and that rhetoric, like victory, your people, his population, and he promises something, says that we, we, we, together must achieve there, and everything inspires , probably in this way unites, that is, as for the citizens of russia, especially those who support him, well, surely, surely this works, and you know what still amazes me, abroad, when citizens of russia, or maybe not citizens of russia, but consider themselves russians, go out there to celebrate with flags and so on, in germany we know that on victory day , they banned any russian symbols in their flags, but there are a bunch of countries where. Russia comes out and celebrates something, so there are nesting dolls, thats all, and im so surprised that people are not ashamed, and i asked, even during the broadcast of russian politician ilip namaryov, why so in general, well, whats the trick, what do they get out of it, well, they show their patriotism, they remember their greatgrandfathers, grandfathers who fought there, well, this is such a different psychology, i would be ashamed if my country was the aggressor and did what does, that is , such murders and. Everything that russia does, in principle, i would be ashamed to show my passport there, let alone go to some festivals abroad, and celebrating it, that is, we do not understand the logic of all this, our logic is that in the 14th year as citizens of ukraine, the enemy came to us, murders began, disappearances began, mass repressions in the occupied territories, illegal elections in the occupied territories, they have actually been taking place since 2014, the question is for the western world, and why then. Legitimacy was not recognized there, yes, that is, the citizens of ukraine may not understand why there is such indecisiveness again, not the maximum efficiency of the western world, and now actually even recognizing putin as the legitimate president acting there, this does not fit into our logic, into the logic of the western world, where it is necessary to somehow communicate, to agree, well , it obviously fits, unfortunately for us, thank you, katerina, andriy, but with. Considering the fact that, and how putin presents it, it is obvious that he perceives the next president ial term as legitimization or the right to continue the war, and obviously this will somehow shape his further steps, and we can already see these further steps, because just three days ago, putin, the socalled president of the Russian Federation, was inaugurated. We can already see how the russian offensive is unfolding in the kharkiv direction, they are already talking about the fact that this offensive may also affect the neighboring sumy region, well , they have been talking about this for a long time, what can we expect from the crowned putin . Well, actually, i just read on the espresso website that heavy battles are taking place along the entire front line, zelenskyi listened to syrskyis report. Indeed, putin perceived this procedure of his inauguration of legitimization as permission and the attention of western countries to him, as permission for further aggressive actions, for further escalation, and of course he uses there are moments, we know that the americans so supported