They talked about it in the 90s, its not like i would say it now, i wrote it for every independence day, they didnt pass the film test, they didnt get into the studio, they didnt do it, they dont do it decalogue, i was simply tired of saying things that were understandable to every child, only to the majority of our compatriots with you, who stubbornly, if they suddenly voted for someone who was a supporter, turned out, was not, turned out to be a supporter of independent development, they quickly. For them, he was enemy number one, such was the fate of leonid kravchuk, Viktor Yushchenko and petro poroshenko, thats all, and we reached collapse, fiasco, and war. Now, what can happen next . Of course, there is no military way out of this process yet, but it may one day to be found, at least in a low intensity war. There might be a change in russia, andrew, and then the question is, we ll have a window of opportunity again, it wont be long, uh, it might be there for 10 years, then russia will again show its imperial aggression when you living next to a country like russia, a former continental empire that fails to win the civilizational contest, you have to realize that at some point this sense of imperial aggression will prevail over common sense, because you see that all that they do it is beyond common sense, beyond, they will destroy again. Their own economy, they destroy their own ability of society to develop, they destroy their own economic assets, they close these oil wells because they cant develop them, its idiocy, but thats what they did after 1917, they just cut themselves off all the time sure, i dont know the organs with scissors, and its not the foreskin, so in this regard it must be clearly understood, which means that if we succeed in the future those who are behind. You in the territory that will remain, we we dont know the number of the population, nor the territory, nor its fate, well, lets say there after some time, i dont know when it will be, maybe such a situation will be created in 2025, or maybe 2040, i dont know, nobody knows now what, how it will look like if we dont use it, secondly, its a window of opportunity, thirdly, because the first time we could use it in the period 2 1900 there 17, 920 and also needless to say that no one used it, they also used it, someone was able to use, but we could not, because again there was discord, misunderstanding of the task, confidence that it was possible to negotiate with moscow, everything was the same, you remember that here in kyiv sat the future chairman of the council of peoples commissariat of soviet ukraine khristiyan rakovsky, and he was simultaneously conducting negotiations with the leadership of the ukrainian state pavlo skoropatskyi and negotiations with the former head of the government of the central on the advice of volodymyr vinnychenko to overthrow the government of pavlo skarapatsko, but vinnychenko was talking, they were talking about all this, that is, they believed that it was possible to come to an agreement with the bolsheviks, that is, everything was the same, so they did not use it then, not now used, but fortunately we have already existed for three years, and 30, 3, and, from this situation, if we do not use this objective opportunity again, it will end in state collapse, sooner or later this state will disappear from the political map of the world, because you cant do that. You cant every time history gives you a chance, to me the fight for ukrainian independence, to be honest, reminds me of this anecdote about a person who dreamed of winning the lottery, asked god why you dont let me win, all the time went to churches and god, everything is not you, not vitra, said, buy a lottery ticket, well, its the same thing, we are given a chance all the time, god, who is merciful to ukrainians, gives them a chance, and they all the time. They begin to think how to get some in naville, some in an apartment in an old khrushchev building, more than. Reach, because you have to live a lot, and how else, better than a neighbor, and until such a time there is such a mentality, existence the ukrainian state is not guaranteed, again, because we are facing a country in which the value of human life is zero, in which the authorities specifically marginalize the majority territory, so that there are soldiers from there, what do you think, its just like that, there is such a mobilization in russia, i assure you, they sat with the ministers of the economic bloc. Back in 2014, and they were asked if people would go to war, and they were told, well, why should they go, it means that the level of the populations purchasing power must be reduced, we rejoiced every time when they said, the russians are getting poorer, but they got to the bute and to the bearded woman, and right there their eyes popped out of their foreheads, because they saw wealth, what wealth, ordinary life, erasers. And vacuum cleaners, and now imagine that if this guy from this buryat or kalmyk or Russian Village would live there normally, would receive normal money, would have money for an apartment or a mortgage, would have this washing machine and this vacuum cleaner, what would he bought for himself on some alibaba there and what is it called, why the hell would he go to the army at all, he didnt go, he wouldnt go, of course, so these people think strategically for ten years ahead. They understand how to prepare the population when there is only one choice, either to go to prison or to military service, well, thats the whole story for you, and these are actually completely realistic estimates, perhaps pessimistic, realistic for some, but in fact such is life and such are the realities of our country, and while we are we will not understand until the end. Until that moment we will repeat the mistakes of the past, because always, always in principle they say that we must take into account all the mistakes of the past in order to have the present and have a future, we do not take into account the mistakes of the past, we do not have a future, thats all, and you absolutely correct they also talked about the 90s, and in the end , a lot of things, a lot of time, and in the end, were similarly lost. And even in fact we are getting up to 2014, as i mentioned, even if we now open the ratings and look in 2013, the majority of people were against nato, the 13th year, the 13th, how many years is it, 22 years of independence , today, by the way, today, by the way, april 207, is the anniversary of the ratification of the Verkhovna Rada of ukraine, the kharkiv agreements, well, this is another one. Another proof of how wrong we ve been and how we are today, once again i say, today and in the future we should take all this into account, well, yes, because even people did not even gather near the parliament, no one was interested in these kharkiv agreements, although it was already the end, and now, the other day , i read the memoirs of a wellknown ukrainian diplomat leonid osovalyuk, whom i have known since the time when he was the consul general in moscow, and i also got along well, he tells me that as a representative of the ministry. For Border Affairs during kuchmas time had to ratify the agreement on demarcation in the sea of azov, and how should he brought the russian draft before the meeting of kuchma and putin, and told him that it was necessary to ratify the russian draft, which actually created this for this sea of azov, the internal sea of russia, which happened as a result, and as he said, he would not sign it. And Viktor Medvedchuk and anatoly orel, deputy head of the administration of the president of ukraine for foreign policy, whom everyone considered to be people connected to the kremlin, not to ukraine, both of them, and these are people who manage the administration of the president. They said no, get a visa, and Leonid Kuchma turned out to be the only person who said no without a visa to the ministry of Foreign Affairs, i will not sign anything, but this, listen, but this is because it was kuchma, not yanukovych, kuchma wanted to maneuver all the time. And if there was yanukovych, everything was signed in general in russian, and for me i remembered how i myself was present at the negotiations on the demarcation of the sea of azov, in other times, when our deputy minister of Foreign Affairs anton buteika came to moscow, this is what was before sovalyuk, and we generally, you know, did not have sea borders with russia, and they did not arise, and he brought to these negotiations such maps of the general staff of the armed forces of russia, the soviet. Union, i apologize, because on these maps, unlike others, the maritime border was drawn, and the deputy minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation told him, and what does it matter, the map of the general staff, what is it anyway . Map and i see that they are simply mocking this unfortunate representative of ours, that is, russia knew for sure that it was impossible to draw any borders in the sea of azov, because they already then they had in their heads that sooner or later they would have to capture mariupol and berdyansk, which means they need their ships to be able to legitimately and legally get right under our ports. And they achieved this, by the way, they achieved the renewal of the black sea fleet in the crimea during yanukovychs time, the fact that they were constantly creating such positions for themselves, in fact, once again, they were putting this burden on our necks, and we were talking to ourselves and saying, that it should be so, i remembered for the rest of my life a whole propaganda campaign, which was against me in the early 90s, because. Then it was perceived differently than today, i was a very young person when i said that if we agree on cheap gas with russia, we will never have a normal economy, there will never be a normal state, that we will be completely dependent on the russian smile, and by the way, look at the map of europe now, precisely in those countries where russian gas continues to make up 50 of the total Energy Balance there, these are hungary and slovakia, precisely all are prorussian there. Forces are triumphing, but look, lets look at ukraine, where all these gas issues created a whole, i would say, network of people interested in relations with russia, and not only in the east and in the south, where the main Ukrainian University of oil and gas specialists, well , you know where, as far as i understand, this is the west of our country. Yes, this is the west of our country, that is, that is, in fact, we are witnessing how, step by step, pebble by pebble , this foundation was created, the foundation of the occupation of ukraine, yes, they were preparing the occupation of ukraine in various ways, including economic, political, cultural, and informational, we should also talk about this, and this issue was raised. In fact , only since 2014 about the information occupation, what kind of lies, what propaganda, how much they tried to connect us with the russian world, so that the part of people who could at least perceive it, so that she felt that she belonged to this russian world, of course, but again, it all started just when the russian chechists came to power and understood how to work with this in. How to use this potential of russian tv channels, which were watched by a huge number of our compatriots, in order to instill in their lives all their ideas, and what happened before that, i came to kyiv, i remember, Dmytro Kiselyov, working like this on the ictv tv channel, where i also hosted a program for a short time, and Dmytro Kiselyov said to me vitali, you know, i have a dream, here i brought my programs about how to live wonderfully in europe. Well, he made a whole series about. Programs for Russian Television about the european way of life, and i say fine, and what, they should be shown to the ukrainians, that the ukrainians knew that the future of their country was in europe, i say, well, they should be shown, of course, but before that, dmytro tells me, they should be translated into ukrainian , you dont want it to be in russian, ukrainians should look at their future in their native language so that it is convincing, so that they see that this is their future, and not just a russian journalist there, telling them about something in russian, this is the same Dmytro Kiselyov who is coming out now. To the ramp in russian propaganda channels and they say that we should all be destroyed, burned, radioactive ash, all that, so if you dont have this curator made of shell, you can think like, lets say, a healthy person has his own views, but how only you are taken and reminded, you are a soldier of the information front, comrade Dmytro Kiselyov or comrade volodymyr solovyov, im not talking about these skabeevs, barobeevs, thats how it is in general. Of course you serve in this army, but how many of our colleagues were part of this system on all these channels, firtashs, medvedchuks, that only russian channels treated our compatriots, and im actually leading to this, that we, and in what language do you write now, all these anonymous telegram channels are connected to the office of the president , maybe russian is understandable, because. That they are, were and will be scoops, the question arises, if you even want to work with public opinion, why dont you do it in ukrainian, because they speak russian, even among themselves. We are our own people, we will not be in anonymous ones tv channels to pretend that we are with you, well , how should i say it, there are some ukrainian nationalists, well, of course, why do we need this, here is the whole essence of these people, and these people are now, by and large , collectively deciding whether this country will be to exist or not, because we talk a lot about the armed forces, of course, if it were not for the resistance of the armed forces. Of course, ukraine would have been a russian province for a long time, but in order for ukraine to survive, an effective understanding of the state and all these challenges is needed, this is an important point. You china was mentioned, and i think it should be mentioned, it should be mentioned in principle about this triangle, which is now actively, actively used, it is the United States of america, china and russia, that is, we should now talk about the visit. Anthony blinken, us secretary of state for china, its very interesting, and we should talk now about chinas support, including chinas, to russia, right . And, by the way, you mentioned china, including in the context of these conditional agreements, possible, so that the russians are trying to push through china . This is also very interesting. In your opinion, is china currently imposing this russian agenda and certain russian postulates for possible agreements, which russia would actually like to promote, so to speak, at least in the mass media. I think china is not interested in that. China is interested in seizing the diplomatic initiative. Now it is obvious. That this peace forum will be held in switzerland in the mountains, and, by the way, not only president zelensky can come to it, lets say, we are not there, the leaders of various countries europe, President Biden may be there, this is such a diplomatic thing, we all gather and together condemn russia, call on it to stop the war, this is about the level of frustration that the russians always had on the crimean platform, it seemed to us, and what are they rehearsing so much, no one is taking crimea away from them, and we will not accept them. That this whole idea of theirs, that everyone recognizes that they have the right, it fails, but it turns out that it is possible to hold the crimean platform, then various heads of state will come, even those who are on good terms with him, president erdogan, and they will say, we consider crimea to be ukrainian, and we continue to think so, this, this is a diplomatic defeat, russia, of course, wants to prevent this diplomatic defeat, as it itself cannot do anything in this situation, it can act through china, go ahead. Representatives at first, when they started talking about participating in the peace forum, they started insisting that the russian delegation headed by Sergey Lavrov be there. He said this almost without concealing it, there are publications in various publications, both western and nonwestern, that is, it is absolutely such an obvious thing, it seems, when they try to get in there. Russia, knowing that it wont be there, and then they can say, you know, you didnt invite russia, we wont come either, why should we go there, but at the same time, its not enough, then china says, you know, its actually all are not real conferences, a real conference where moscow and kyiv will be held, and if you cannot provide it in switzerland, then i think it is a question of our initiative, we will make a platform where you can. Hold your negotiations, real ones negotiations, real negotiations, they will be if the russians and ukrainians in china meet with their, how to say, opponents, enemies, to be precise, and they actually force everyone to discuss it, because they can hold another conference, lets say there will be a peace forum in switzerland and some forum in china where ukraine will not be present. Because we will refuse to go there, because russia will be there, if we go there, it will be strange, true, but half of the countries of the global south that were at the forum in switzerland can go there, and so in this way, the very results of the forum will be devalued, these countries will already know that they have to go there, they will be very careful from the point of view of making some decisions there, there will be some vague resolution, or. They are of the same level of vague resolution, for peace and friendship, for all intents and purposes, will be approved at this alternative conference, this is what moscow wants to achieve through the mediation of beijing, and beijing absolutely does not need it either. Diplomatic defeat of moscow, thats all, thats why they act synchronously, as we can see, absolutely, i would say confidently in this situation, because lavrov praises the chinese peace plan all the time, which does not exist, but the idea of the chinese peace plan, conditionally speaking, and global peace, it is very simple, it can be reduced to two theses a ceasefire on the line of contact where parties, if russia is ready for it. And the lifting of sanctions, to pay for the ceasefire by lifting sanctions, i. E. A de facto freeze and a de facto such a big fat plus for russia, of course, from a point of view you can also think about a freeze, but with the continuation of sanctions, thats the same the difference is, in fact, you dont want to agree on anything, so we understand that now both sides are exhausted, the conflict is frozen, a truce, but the sanctions will be lifted when you comply . All the guidelines of international law, if you leave donbas, there will be one lifting of sanctions, if you leave crimea, there will be another level of lifting of sanctions, if you continue to shell the territory of ukraine, then such sanctions will be maintained, here it is such a game of dice and gingerbread, by and large on any any readiness of russia to return to normality, russia is given the possibility of receiving economic preferences, and china has the completely opposite attitude, it has the thesis that sanctions cannot be used as a tool in technopolitics at all, and that the only tool for the introduction of sanctions is the decision of the Security Council of the united nations, that is, the absence of a decision, because we understand that at the level of the united nations, sanctions cannot be introduced against any state, which should be such a country. That the United States, china, russia, france and Great Britain imposed sanctions against it, well we we know what north korea and iran are in connection with the nuclear program, but russia that adheres to this sanctions regime, but not anymore, not anymore, it was before, it was before, and now it is not, and blinken came to china, which your expectations, what the consequences may be, will or will not be, or rush. That a clear position has been made public, the americans are fed up with china helping russias militarytechnical complex, and they will be ready to monitor this more carefully and introduce sanctions against chinese companies. It is not very pleasant for sidzimpides, but he will somehow survive six months, because sidzenpin, like putin, is waiting for the results of the president ial elections in the United States, for him cooperation with this administration is a very conditional thing, here are some decisions. Lets say, whether to cancel militarytechnical cooperation or , on the contrary, to strengthen it, he will decide after he learns the name of the winner of the president ial election of the United States, that is , at this moment chinas support for russia at this level, at which it will remain now, will not increase, she will be careful, but it will not go anywhere, because no one will be able to explain to the head of the peoples republic of china why he should change his. Policy at all, well, blinkin has arrived, who is blinkin, blinkin may not be in office in january next year, but shizen pingwe known forever, well at least from their point of view, that is, they need to understand, like putin, what will happen in the United States in the next four years, and this is actually the main question for them, they will of course be more careful now, because again, some additional sanctions until. No need, but at the same time they will not do anything that can somehow change their ability to, lets say, save russia in this situation that russia has found itself in as a result of this war. So here it seems to me that everything is absolutely obvious and. And by and large, this is their common policy, it will be like this, you know, again, we talked with igor that the chinese treat these symbols very differently than we do, that is, if they knew for sure, that means that the calendar is political, that blinkin is coming today, and we are sending our the minister of defense in astana, and he is shaking shoigus hand there, they definitely asked to postpone this conference, if they didnt want it, they would have been negotiating for a month, but they would definitely have agreed that this conference was or earlier a week or later by two, so that these two events do not. Connect them, they dont just connect them, they are absolutely clear in these publications close to beijing, such as the south China Morning post, lets say , they write whole reviews that show this photo of the ministers of defense, and the content of this text is about blinkins visit, i. E. They are clearly speaking, this is a signal, this is a response to blinkins visit, the handshake between the minister of defense of china and the minister of defense of the Russian Federation, what can i add here, and again this. Cure us of certain illusions that of chinese politics. There is, well, i would say so, a certain political axiom. Is it possible to have a Good Relationship with the peoples republic of china, money . You need to see which small European Countries sidzenpin visits during his european tour, well, except for france, well, france is close, it is a big economic partner. Serbia and hungary. And there is one more country in europe the republic of belarus. The president , who is constantly visiting beijing, but what unites these three countries, they are in different blocs, is that hungary is a member of nato and the european union, serbia does not, it wants to join the european union, nato does not want it, belarus is generally a dkb of the european union, it unites them only one thing, they are friends with putin, the orientation is vladientation, so yes, everyone in ukraine should realize that by and large , if the condition is in our. Situations good relations with the peoples republic of china, investments, Political Support, whatever, there must be a political understanding with the Russian Federation, this is a package, and we can afford it, im wondering, but now that you and i dont know, we will leave, from here the next missile attack will begin, well, 20 or 30 minutes ago we already talked about the possibility of any conditional relations with russia and, in principle, any. Any agreements with russia, thats right, thats why i think that the answer here is absolutely on the surface that of course not, at least for now, at least in the geopolitical axis in which china and russia are today, we are here for literally two minutes, we mentioned iran with mr. Igor, in short, in your opinion, some arms supplies will also be increased to russia from iran . I dont, iran has entered a clinch with israel, it now needs weapons itself, of course, nothing has happened now, but if anyone knows what will happen in six months, in a year, iran will provide russia with Technological Capabilities there in order to to produce shaheds, in order to create the possibility of some missiles, but iran itself will now accumulate weapons, and imagine how many weapons iran spent for this attack on israel, thats how much . How many missiles, drones, millions of dollars, its all necessary, language, there is language, there we are talking about, maybe even tens of millions of dollars, because it is not easy, there are also certain technical points, so the use of these weapons, well, we have such a situation now, so of course we will, we will believe in this one as well peace summit in switzerland, it will still bring unification for. States, at least the civilized world, and neutral states, lets also hope that china and russia will not succeed, relatively speaking, in nullifying the results of this summit, and even if it will not bring any practical results, but at least political statements and Political Support of ukraine on it will be very, very important for all of us. Andriy smoliy, vitaly portnikov, thank you and wish you, thank you, see you in a week, have a good evening, friends, i congratulate the viewers of the tv channel, in the studio of iryna koval and to yours. Attention final news release. And i will start with the events at the front. This week, the russian invaders advanced west of avdiivka. Difficult situation in the area of the village of ocheretyn between the Defense Forces of ukraine and the Russian Occupation troops , fierce battles continue. According to the deep state resource, the russians captured the villages of semenivka and solovove in this direction. The general staff did not confirm such information. Instead, the spokesman