Is over, but not for everyone, for us the maidan continues, in our case, the case of january 22, the victims remained almost a little active, because zhyznivskyis parents have already died, they are gone, nigayans mother has been sick for a long time, she is practically not walking the father is tormented by everything and killed by the burning of the fact that his only child was killed, he is already indifferent to everything, he says no one will return this son to me, so that s all, he just gave up and hes not interested, only me, three cases and practically one victim remained. Such a corner of memory, this is a place of memory, the place of my brothers memory , you see, we always have a lamp there, we light it, maybe someone is surprised, thinks there, twists his finger near his head, says that im a little crazy, but i i just cant help it, its such a holy place, and its a romance in life. He did this in his own house, he actually knew how to do everything in the world, he did that with pleasure, here he is on the maidan, it is the month of december, it was in december, when they arrived with the boys, here he is, you see, they arrived with the boys on december 3, it is january 21, it is the penultimate day. Uh, he took a picture, and it was sometime in january, i think, i dont remember there, on the 10th or some other january, he was on the maidan, well, these are from different days, he is so happy here, i remember , when he calls and says you know, i was entrusted with the flag of our hundred, now i am always with him, i do not go anywhere without it, for him it was such pride, he with such. Hortisti told about the fact that he was entrusted with the flag. For the first time , roman went to the maidan after the students were beaten on the maidan, and he didnt tell anyone that he was going, he called straight from work, from his shift, and said, as usual, as always, the description. Glory to ukraine, im on the maidan. When we explained that they are beating there, well, they are beating there , really, the whole world has already seen that they are beating, he said, well, you dont understand, well, i have to be here, they beat the children, what they have the right to beat, thats why from this day on, he always was there. He lived on the maidan, as he said , the maidan is the country we plan to build, and so they say, so many heroes of the heavenly hundred said, because families remember today, they created their laws, their rules there, there was such an order, they understood each other, they stood behind each other, they, they underwent some kind of military training, they taught each other everything there. Well, they lived on the maidan, it was their life, he couldnt live without the maidan, there were constant conversations about the maidan. On january 21, he called me again, although before that he said he would go to the maidan, i asked him, for gods sake, not to go, and he just ran away from work again, just took the train and went, and on the 22nd, 21st he called me and says glory to ukraine, im on the maidan, im on the maidan again, and we talked with him for a long time, it was evening. As he said that he stands as usual at night on duty, because he says, young people go to rest, they stand every other day, we older people leave at night, there are a lot of Golden Eagles, he then said that Golden Eagles a lot, he says, i dont know if we can handle them, well, but we have no right to retreat, we have to stand to the end. January 22. I couldnt call him in the morning, when i already saw that nigayan was killed, zhiznevsky was killed, and about an hour after we called him, his first words were i received my first combat wound, my god, what a wound, and im not experiencing anything terrible , just a grenade exploded next to me, and but the girls already got shrapnel in the leg, but the girls have already processed everything, everything is fine, im having breakfast now and i need to again to go we asked him again, begged him to go home, to come back, and he got even more angry, he said, what are you making up, you understand that i have to be here, roman, why are you standing there, well, go home, people they are killing, i am standing here, these were his last words, i am standing here for you, for your children, for your grandchildren, for ukraine, he was wounded, an armorpiercing bullet. 12gauge in the shoulder, which went through, hit the carotid artery, went through the lungs and lodged in the rib, it stayed there and was removed on the operating table, and from massive blood loss and he died. Then, they told me, go to the morch to the greenhouse, they will bring him to you, and i , you know, in such a shock, in such a trance , went, i am waiting, i am calling the hospital, soso, they will bring him to you now, they will bring him to you, almost two hours have passed, and a phone call from a complete stranger, an unknown number is calling, says lesya, they want to steal your novel. I thought that the ground under my feet gave way, i took a taxi to the hospital, i thought that i would run faster on foot, for me those 15 minutes lasted very long, very scary, how to steal, how to steal, he is already dead, why, and when i arrived at the gates of the hospital, there was a bus with Golden Eagles, i ran. I already saw a group of people standing under the hospital morgue, there were people in civilian clothes standing there, but they were police officers, and there were guys, an afghan hundred, they were watching roman in the hospital all day, and they simply closed, covered the morgue with themselves and did not give they werent allowed to pick it up if they didnt call. Didnt call me, they just wouldnt have done anything, they needed it as if relatives, yes, and he started shouting at me , you have no documents, you are nobody, i will take him away, i only have the right, you understand, it was a shock for me, who shouted like that, this policeman, my case started back in 22 um, because it was before this time when i took roman away, i was called to. Immediately to the Police Station, the Police Station of this pechersk district, the investigator took all the evidence, signed the documents for me, how have i suffered since then, well and during this month, while the maidan was still going on until february 20, the authorities at that time destroyed completely, completely everything that was would be important for the investigation. Then tatarov tried very hard to make the case so that it was as if roman was killed by their own demonstrators, that they shot him in the back from literally three meters away, and they made such and such a report of the forensic expert and everything that they killed him, then they often said that the protesters killed their own people, they swept away their tracks completely, and blamed their crimes on the maidan residents. The first investigator who was on my case, i remember it was may, the month of the 14th year, this was the first time we were in to the Prosecutors Office , and he just opened his eyes and told me, well, you dont hope that one day they will find the killer of your brother, its practically unreal, it was very scary, it was very difficult, although, well, i didnt stop, i understood that i had to to do something , well, it cant be like that, thats why. Thats what he said, thats what he decided, the investigators changed very often, in the first years, in general , almost every three months, until the 16th year, the investigators changed, probably six of them changed, from the 14th to the 16th, from the 16th to the 19th there was already one, and then we are had a lot of experience, it was obvious that a person works and knows the business, is interested in some kind of result. It was with him that we got this correct, so true, those Laboratory Tests that the bullet was not from three meters, he achieved this, although it was very difficult, because that examination is carried out in kharkiv, firstly, and secondly, her jacket , well, the clothes and the jacket, on which there were traces of this gunpowder, they were still there in the 14th and they cut out a large part, and first of all, it had been lying there for a very long time. Two years there somewhere in some package, but he did win, he did, he made everyone do it right. It was after the elections, the top management made a decision to transfer all cases from the Prosecutors Office to the sbi, all investigators were changed there, all investigators who were in the Prosecutors Office remained in the Prosecutors Office, and so on. I dont know who is in the sbi, it was even very interesting, i was there in the fall, when i arrived and called her to meet, she said i dont know anything about this case, im not involved in this case. Ugh, i still broke through to the head of our affairs on the maidan, i ask who my investigator is, i think, well, maybe it has changed again, but no, give me her last name. Since the 19th year, when the case was transferred to the sbi, nothing has been done, at all, well, the impression is that she is lying there as a dead weight, no one is looking at her, they are not investigating, because i would even say that if they were interested, they would probably contact me as well, they would really like to see the victims, i communicated with the zhyznevski family, no one calls them, no one not interested in anything. Well, no one is interested, and when the investigators change, we are not even informed about it, that you have a changed investigator, well, it should be like that for a certain period of time, and when it comes to cases in the sbi, well, we dont know anything at all, they hope for the fact that we will simply suffer and we will surrender, they hope that the victims will simply die, honestly, because a lot of families, a lot of relatives have already gone to the other world, young people. Then moms parents, and those who remains, they are either sick and no longer able to come to either to the Prosecutors Office, not to the sbi, let alone to the court. With a lawyer, we submitted an application to the European Court of human rights, and we accepted it, registered it, and we are waiting for our turn. Well , the murderers must be punished, first of all , the main one who ordered them from yanukovych must be punished, he must be punished, and the punishment must be as fair, but not the same punishment as the one handed down in the case on february 20. Because its very painful and very scary, i dont know how those families go through it, well i know because i i communicate with them, and. It is very scary to hear such a verdict, such a sentence, such a one with a mockery, it is such a spit in the faces of the families. Welcome to the espresso channel. Today, the topic of our program is war and weapons where to get new forces and resources in the war against russia. And there are several components here. French president emmanuel. Kron caused a real storm this week by stumbling upon the possibility of introducing the troops of european states into ukraine. Can kyiv count on such unexpected reserves, or is it simply unbelievable . Although macron himself already after that highprofile meeting in parisi, with the leaders of 20 countries that are helping ukraine in the fight against russia, again emphasized that all his statements, including the dispatch of western troops, were carefully thought out. So, what is behind this, we will talk about it in the first part of our program, and in the second part, about internal reserves, which we do not take into account, but they still exist. I am talking about the fact that in fact each of our combat brigades is a kind of center of concentration of information power that connects and mobilizes society, as an example, the third separate assault brigade, and this the potential depends not only on the weapon, so. What is this phenomenon, how to use it, scale it and what effect it can have. My name is serhiy sgurets, i am the director of the defense express information and consulting company, which is currently working together with spresso channels to cover the most relevant events in the life of our military and the security dimension. And now the first guest joins us, this is oleksiy yizhak, an expert of the National Institute of strategic studies. Mr. Oleksiy, i congratulate you, i am glad to see and hear you. Each other for you see, i congratulate you, of course, i would like to start with what i announced at the beginning of our program, how to perceive macrons statement and his actions directed at the discussion of the possibility of sending units of either nato countries or the European Union to ukraine, and this sounding the positions of the leaders of the European Countries and the countries of the alliance, because at first it looked like a certain absolutely not. Possibility, but then the french minister of Foreign Affairs spoke about the fact that nothing can be ruled out, and the Prime Minister of estonia said the same about the fact that western leaders should not exclude the possibility of introducing Ground Troops into ukraine, that is, in my opinion, this is such an interesting new trend in certain political currents, it has several components and layers, so that you can separate. From these statement, why is it important and what are the implications . Perhaps it would be too loud, but i will still say that i believe that such conversations, such and such a discourse, are in fact the beginning of practical negotiations on the terms of ukraines membership in nato, but it is in the same vein as, for example, our discussions with the neighbors in relation to the farmers protests, it is factual. To the beginning of negotiations on the accession of ukraine to the European Union, on the terms of this accession, on what terms, what exactly, well, how it will actually take place, what rights, obligations and all that. Now as to how real it is, it is real, it is, and i would say natural. Whenever we see a situation where the United States changes its attitude towards europe for certain reasons, and now such a situation is reflected. A situation is happening now, a conflict situation regarding aid to ukraine between ukraine between by europe and the United States, always in such periods, france takes Political Leadership, it took Political Leadership now in order to unite, unite europe for certain goals, and at the same time, why is it important, because in the leadership that is now in europe , in france and. There has always been france and germany, in this leadership the roles are slightly different, in france it is Political Leadership, in germany it is financial leadership, and there is also an element here that france would like to combine european resources in so visions how she sees it, because, well, it is enough to say that, for example, the fund that everyone knows about, 100 billion, the german fund for modernization. And the change of weapons, it is still basically f35, american, in france there is a different vision, that is. I want to say that in principle, it is natural, what was said, how realistic it is from the point of view, and what does this mean for the security of ukraine, i would, it is clearly not about nato troops fighting instead of our troops, it is not about replacing the law on mobilization and everything related to it, it is rather about those agreements that ukraine is currently concluding an agreement with europe on the automatic response of our partners. In case of danger for ukraine, this is the presence , we are talking about such and such forms of presence that make reactions on the part of nato countries automatic, it is not only a military presence, it is also an industrial presence, it is also various financial and political presence, but here i will remind you that in order to fight for ukraine, you need, well, you need such a large presence, and the constitution of ukraine is article 17. Point paragraph 7, it seems that he says that it is impossible on the territory of ukraine the creation of Foreign Military bases, that is, such forms are impossible, now, now such forms, when there is a certain territory, the flag of another country hangs there, military personnel live there according to the laws of another country, and there is a special agreement on the status of foreign forces, no, i am not about this, this is about. The fact that the military presence can be different, it can be special forces, it can be consultants, advisors, it can be crews that maintain the equipment that we receive, it can be engineering, various subdivisions, all this can be, and from my point of view there is none, not only is it possible, it is already by and large, it is now about. Which countries are ready, ready to increase such a presence and ready to take on such additional obligations regarding automatic response in the event, well, in case of danger to ukraine and threats to ukraine. And of course, this discourse is also for us, we also have to decide for ourselves, and whether we are ready as a country, let s say, a nato country, whether we are ready to accept it permanently. On the basis of foreign troops essential such a presence that will be, with which well will be built into our our common defense, this is also an important issue for us, that is, in fact, they said, it is such a certain paradoxical situation that ukraine is not joining nato, but nato is coming to ukraine, and then, in fact, our military and Political Leadership should probably then stimulate this process , having determined the most promising. The most necessary areas and creating the conditions for changes in these areas to really take place remains on the agenda, but from the 14th year, another process began within the framework of nato , when they saw what was happening, how organized russian aggression was in the countries a slightly different process was launched in the baltics, where the ministries of defense of the baltic countries identified the resources they needed to strengthen their own national defense. Even without the participation of nato as an organization, without article five, and then the mechanisms were launched, and the United States and the european allies launched those resources, placed, deployed in the baltic countries, and built them into the own defense of these countries, that is, now there are nato units that should come under, well, other countries, which should come under the command of the countries baltic states, if it starts. Not even because article five is not included, but russian aggression begins. I think that for us , the main thing that we can do and the fastest and most clear is to offer to our allies, namely, what resources do we currently lack in defense, well, in addition to human resources, to actually fight on the battlefield, what resources, what are our weak points, where we need to strengthen from the staff structures to the engineering ones. Divisions, where we would need such, well , such a fast, well, fast inclusion, and accordingly tell our partners, and what we wanted from macrons proposal in practical terms, in fact then president zelenskys answer, which was so rather imprecise, is probably a consequence of the fact that we probably have this process going on now, we cannot say clearly, but we are already considering it and. The most optimal versions, but then i would like to add that, relatively speaking, the transformation of the alliance there is one way or another connected with the transformation of the European Defense industry. Especially for the leading European Countries, and where there may be new opportunities for ukraine. We it has already been talked about several times, but the very process of the dynamics of the European Defense industry, as it seems to me, creates new and new opportunities in certain aspects, which we must not miss in this process, we must not miss two very important european processes, which relate to the defense industry. The first is when unified funds for purchases, joint purchases are created, when Different Countries combine their budgets in order to jointly purchase a certain weapon system, and the second, a parallel process to this, when International Alliances are created, European Defense enterprises, which must fulfill these orders, that is, collective orders, yes, well, for example, the a400 aircraft is purchased in this way. Airplanes, airplanes, nato 90 helicopters, typhoons, eurofighters, because of such mechanisms, when a european specific fund is created, and an Industrial Alliance is created, on the other hand, which fulfills this collective order, now we see, for example, the European Peace Fund , there are various other structures that unite, well, actually , the fact that the french. Talk, they talk about the fact that in europe there are alliances that produce missiles, produce stormshadows , produce scalps, produce, well, taurus, it is more national, and even antimissile defense systems, they are collective, they are european, and if there is good, well, such and such mechanism to help ukraine is to create a european fund, not an american one, but a european one. The fund from which the creation of such weapons for ukraine by the European Alliance will be financed. We must not miss this in the issue of involvement at the stage of financing and at the stage of attraction of our Defense Enterprises to this joint european production. Well , by the way, as i understand it, france is following this path, because when it talks there about a coalition regarding artillery or a coalition regarding longrange missiles. Means of impression, in parallel , it is said that a fund is being created, which should use resources for the purchase of these samples, but there is somehow a certain bias in the french proposals regarding their samples, there is caesar, french, rockets are french, the impression is that the french are a little they give less arms to ukraine than to germany, but they try to load their defenses more, isnt there such a certain, well, dualism in behavior. The french, of course, there are , so you have to see in france what this country is , it is a european political leader, but in matters of money and all these matters, well , they have their own interests, of course, the germans have a lot of money, the french want use this money to load, load first of all our own defense industry, and there is a big dilemma for us here, because the germans and. And ours and now the czech republic, well in general, our partners, closer to us, eastern europe, they believe that european funds should be used immediately to get weapons for ukraine, where they are, if they are in the global south, they should be purchased in the global south and delivered right now, therefore that there is a shortage right now, the french proposal is that