Such a simple thing it may sound strange, but ilham aliyev is a much more experienced, serious politician, than vladimir putin, uh first of all, he is from a better family, he was raised by his father, a general of the state security service, and not by some unknown person, he did not run around covered porches, this is a typical child of the soviet elite, with good strategic thinking, with an understanding of how to build politics , and in principle, what can we do, it can be seen from all the events of recent years that. A politician, of an authoritarian type, of course, and what should Heydar Aliyevs son be like, a great democrat , it doesnt happen that way, but with the ability to control the situation, the situation, analyze, understand what the next step will be, and what he thinks, and it seems to me that this is also understandable, for some reason he thinks, and this is also a strange story, that he will seize karabakh, completely, establish control over it, and then create for the world an attractive model of the existence of karabakh armenians in azerbaijan, and in this way everyone can say utnis, you see, ugh, republics were created here, they called us here, animals and everything, the law, and we are a normal civilized country, but he did not take into account that before that he made this blockade, that the armenians did not take humanitarian aid from azerbaijan aid, that the people there lived in hunger only to avoid receiving humanitarian aid from the azerbaijanis, that they were the last, there, i would say, for six months exactly years in such a fortress environment, really no, it is no longer a figurative meaning, direct, uh , and besides, i think that when you are in the president ial palace and for you all this, all this politics is a game, you can not imagine the real level of hatred that exists between ordinary people, ordinary azerbaijanis and ordinary armenians, because youre talking to pashinyan here, right . You can talk not with pashinyan , but with someone else, and these are normal conversations of civilized people who sit on soft chairs and no one shot at anyone, well, maybe if he shot, well, thats what it is, did he give an order, thats politics , and for an ordinary person, this is not politics, oh, there is a tooth for a tooth, just a tooth for a tooth, absolutely exactly, all the more so, this is the caucasus and that is how it arises. Such a question, now, when i spoke before and after all this with various azerbaijani experts, they told me, well, you understand, we want armenians to live in a civilized azerbaijan, and indeed, azerbaijan has already offered to hold talks on this very matter with karabakh representatives several times , russia was not allowed to hold these talks, by the way, also an interesting moment, they kept giving this karabakh leader an ultimatum that there would be no direct talks with azerbaijan. Although, by the way, until the entire time before robert kecheryan came to power, karabakh was generally part of this negotiation process, it was moscow that insisted that it be removed from there, not by chance, and in this situation, they the first thing they did was to invite the karabakh delegation to yevlakh for negotiations, but, yes, they went, and then there was a second round of negotiations, and yesterday was the third in yevlakh, and the question arises, what are they talking about now, that is, the people are leaving karabakh, armenians are leaving. No, they are not leaving, but they have left, we can clearly say that there is no armenian population on the territory of karabakh anymore, but now a good legal question arises, that is , azerbaijan is outraged by the fact that armenia gave it, filed an International Court against it, all this, but on the other hand, now, after this obvious and undoubted military and political victory of azerbaijan , the legal processes of the map are now on the table for the armenians of azerbaijan can speak, you know, and we wanted these people to live, they lived in a separatist formation, and we wanted them to live like all normal citizens of azerbaijan. Receive citizenship received citizenship often yes, this is an important point, by the way, this distinguishes karabakh from the occupied territories of ukraine, these people were never citizens of azerbaijan, regardless, they were citizens of the soviet union and the azerbaijan ssr, which, like other former soviet republics, did not have a separate citizenship, all this began in 1991, but it is so, note bene, but the problem is different, armenia can say, but they blockaded these people, whom they consider citizens, they did not let them leave even in the ambulances of their leaders there, they are that, they are that, it does not matter, people, the whole world still sees that all these people escaped, completely , left completely to the last person from that territory, that is, this plan , which was aliyevs plan, did not work, and putins plan was to have them leave and depose pashinyan, putin understood that they would leave, that is, there was no cooperation here. Interests, because you will understand, aliyev gets this territory, the territory around karabakh, it is empty, karabakh itself is empty, you can place the army there, you can hold meetings with the former residents, stepan kert, who is usually called khankendzi according to azerbaijani law, and he was called, by the way khankendzi, this is the historical name of stepan kerptsyn, not some historical armenian name, he was called khankendzi stepan kerptsyn. In honor of stepan shaumyan, so what is this, it is a soviet name, but the point is not that they should return there, well, in the soviet border lived somewhere around 20 , azerbaijanis, 80 men, historically, this is a russian city in general, the majority there were russians, it is a russian fortress, and other cities, no, shosha is a city with an azerbaijaniarmenian population, there it changed from the point of view of the ratio, but, it was like that, in stepan kertsi, that is, in khankindia, first russians lived, then azerbaijanis, then there were more armenians, thats how it changed during the creation of nagornokarabakh, im only talking about the city, im not talking about , well, these are people who are heirs, or refugees themselves, or refugees themselves, they may think that they will return there, but where there is no infrastructure, nothing. No, everything is destroyed, plus, of course, you can live in your apartment if you have it, and if it is no longer there, you you live in someone elses apartment, but you know that you still live in a country that may be subject to some property issues, people have documents there, they can file in International Courts, in the European Court of human rights, or somewhere else , azerbaijan will not come out of nowhere, this is not russia , that is, that is all, as much as aliyev really needed such a beautiful showcase, he received a completely empty territory, completely, those areas in which, which were liberated by the azerbaijanis in the 20th year, they in principle, they were almost deserted, yes, and now completely, and now that this will be uninhabited, that is, a huge territory, it is without people, plus another very important point, that this number is 100,000 people, it means that there will be a humanitarian disaster of a certain type right now, huh. Lets see how ivan will manage this, but talks have already begun at a high level about the need to introduce sanctions against azerbaijan, this is what the head of the committee, it seems to me , the senate in the united states, on military issues, says, on military issues, i think that these voices will increase, because humanity always, that too could not be taken into account in baku, reacts very painfully to these televisions. Pictures, and here a question always arises for any western politician. Here we saw these unfortunate ukrainians, like at the train stations, who were holding childrens toys to themselves, and we introduced sanctions against russia, and now we see these armenians in goris, who are holding childrens toys to themselves, they are definitely secondclass people, simply because they lived in a selfproclaimed republic, but we wanted azerbaijan, we recognized that it is azerbaijan, we just wanted azerbaijan to solve it politically, when Slobodan Milosevic expelled the entire albanian population of kosovo from the territory that was considered by the whole world to be an integral part of serbia, and this population was the population of a selfproclaimed republic, as illegitimate as nagorno karabakh, so what did the west do, bombed military facilities in belgrade and other cities in serbia, because everyone was horrified by these refugee camps, i was in these camps in macedonia, it was terrible, but these people were legally citizens of a selfproclaimed republics that did not want to be and do not want to be, now we are there again on the threshold of a new war there and do not want to be citizens of serbia, if sanctions are introduced against serbia in such a situation, what to do with azerbaijan, with the full understanding that this is an internationally recognized territory azerbaijan. I say once again, i think that baku did not want this, but it happened as it did, but it happened and it happened, they could have foreseen it. I dont understand how anyone could think that karabakh armenians will stay there, because they are actually antiazerbaijani more than the armenians in armenia itself, the armenians in armenia themselves want to live in peace with azerbaijan, yes, they may not like it, but they need peace, the karabakh people are a completely different population group. Has always been, because this is also a good situation, put yourself in the place of the azerbaijani leaders, you have in the soviet era, you have the territory, the nagornokarabakh autonomous region with the overwhelming majority of the population of yerevan, you are the azerbaijani leader, and you not really, you dont really like the connection the population of this territory neighboring armenia, what will you do to make it less loyal and less connected to armenia. Well, maybe he will offer them something pleasant, from a purely civilizational point of view, they already live with you, they are your citizens, there is your Regional Party committee, what can be done to make them less tied to this avirmen context. Oh, its hard to be a politician , you wont open an Azerbaijani School there, you wont be able to teach them, provide them with everything they need. No no no no its like that no no no it doesnt work like that not like that me i mean, so that they feel no less armenian from the point of view of the connection with the residents of the neighboring country, its about an hours drive, well, theres a forest there for a couple of hours, well , less pressure on origin, more pressure on citizenship, and what, azerbaijani, i didnt have it, im talking, only now they offer to provide it, well, what , well, youre not azerbaijanis again, you cant do it, if you open Azerbaijani Schools there, they. Start writing complaints to the presidium of the supreme soviet of the ussr, how to do so that they do not know their native language, literature, not so much he was interested in what to do with this, well, you appear, this is the soviet union, you are an internationalist, what schools should be, well, russian, thats right, they were there, i m sorry, i was born after the collapse of the soviet union, but thats how it is for me it didnt even occur to me, at first, really, you just open russian schools and that solves all issues. Thats right, they, in that soviet union, were engaged in the russification of these armenians, no armenians, karabakh, in armenia itself, given that 90 of the armenian population was there, and 90 armenian, moreover, there were russian schools in armenia, they were considered elite and prestigious, children went, went to these schools, studied russian, and when they left school, they spoke to their parents in what language . In armenian, because this russian language for them was like english or french, they spoke to each other on turns, in armenian, they spoke russian only in lessons, thus armenia differed from conventionally speaking, from conventional ukraine, there eastern or southern, you see, it was different in karabas, there generations of the russian speaking armenian population grew up, and the leadership of the azerbaijan ssr was satisfied with this, but together with this, it turned out later that this, i would tell you. At the end of the 80s, at the beginning of the 90s, more soviet people, ugh, and this is also a huge problem that was not taken into account in baku, because when the independence of azerbaijan was proclaimed, the intensive construction of the azerbaijani political nation began, its own history, its own approaches, its president s, ties with turkey, everything began to develop in the moment when azerbaijan was occupied by the bolsheviks in the 20th year. Ugh, what could have happened in karabash, just conservation in the soviet union , and not armenia, and not azerbaijan, what did the russian peacekeepers do, the first thing they did in the 20th year, you know, they started to open russian schools, and to demand the study of the russian language, because in karabash after 1991, russian schools were closed, armenian schools were opened, as we can see, it did not suit them, they probably thought that they would be there longer, they had already started there to make a civilizational revolution, well, that is , now we are at this point, yes, azerbaijan and armenia are preparing for a peace agreement, i hope that on october 5. It will be agreed, along with this azerbaijan, which believes that it is in such a position of the winner in this story, obviously, is also in a defensive position from the point of view of how they will react to the exit of the armenians from karabakh, azerbaijan says that it does not expels, and armenians are called ethnic cleansing, these are already different views on the situation, and here it is important what the view will be. To accept by the international community, plus an important point is the story itself with armenia, and with this corridor between azerbaijan and nekhishchivan, because unexpectedly the president of turkey , recep tayyip erdogan, after meeting with lham aliyev in nakhchivan, said that if armenia does not want this corridor, he can pass through iran, huh, that is, below, yes, well , by and large, this is a completely different schedule of the situation. Because this indicates that turkey does not want to take any steps that would call into question and respect for the international right, President Biden wrote a letter to pashinyan, its all erdogan and aliyev, i say again, they are experienced people, they understand what this means, they just read these signals, so its clear that somewhere their opportunities stop, they may or may not want to , if armenia does not. agrees to the corridor, they may not include it in economic cooperation, but they cannot further encroach on any of its interests, and then the question arises, who will be a partner in armenia in this situation, when azerbaijan and turkey become, without their own will, its guarantors territorial integrity, well, then the west can play its role, because then why is russia needed, russia has shown its complete inability, and this is also an obvious thing. And in this situation, of course, we have a completely different distribution of forces in the region. We still forget that there are many other players, besides russia, which continues to dream of punishing pashinyan, there is iran, which is not interested in changing the status quo, i. E. Karabakh, well, of course, it is azerbaijan and no one doubts it, and neither is iran doubts, but if we are talking about sovereign territories herself armenia and azerbaijan are taking a step forward. Azerbaijan, which takes such a step, may think about iranian azerbaijan tomorrow, yes. And this is already dangerous. That is, the territorial status quo may or may not be violated. So here armenia can now finally play a completely different game, because armenia has been a hostage of karabakh practically since the first day of its independence. Now it is a hostage not of karabakh as a territory, but of refugees from karabakh. It will be very important to understand how these people. Is preparing for political life in the country, as it is in general will develop after this crisis, but i never believed that the normal development of events in the region could take place without solving this or that karabakh problem, i do not know if the final solution has taken place, i will say it again, a small remark about the caucasus, today is the anniversary of what is called the day of victory and independence of abkhazia. They believe that they defeated georgia in the 90s. Why the thing is, i think that russia overdid it, deceived itself, because when abkhazian, south ossetian, or bridnistrian leaders, or even crimean leaders from donbass, yes. The police are detaining the former state minister of the nkr, the socalled ruben verdanyan, a billionaire with huge connections in the world and other leaders of karabakh without such connections, they may ask themselves that we do not have vardanans billions, we only have putins support, and it turns out that putin, if he agrees something with someone, he can sacrifice our interests, for four minutes, he will need to decide something from tbilisi. In chisinau, and we will simply be arrested, and putin will say something, but he will not say anything, they dont say anything, thats why, they just dont Pay Attention to it, and after all, these are people who focused on their support, so in fact this can have quite serious consequences, which in moscow they cannot even predict, but everyone says that the nagornokarabakh republic is the first. The same declared republic that disappeared in the territory of the postsoviet space, this is not true, ugh, it was the first gagauzka republic, but how the republic of hava disappeared, beautifully, with agreements, with the republic of moldova, it became an autonomous territorial entity, and the haguzys are not divided anywhere, they did not flee to ukraine or russia, they live there, all the people who lived, all the leaders of this gausian republic, none of them had any problems with justice, they are all respectable people there, streets in komratka are named after their surnames, well, i have those who died, those who are alive continued active political activity, were elected to various managerial positions. Do you understand and they understood that they had created such a thing, but russia interceded for them, it was their mediator, by and large, and it gave them the opportunity to function further in moldova as respectable serious people, that is, it is nothing to worry about, you can take risks in such a situation, and nothing will happen to you, there were also, in principle, quite serious solo decisions, they were not like in transnistria, but one way or another, these were declarations, they were declarations of withdrawal. Part of the republic of moldova, it was, i was in gaguz, when it declared itself an independent state, so i remember all this very well, it might seem that this is not the center of the world, which country is it, its kind of funny, but im sorry, karabakh too, believe me, its not monta carlo, it doesnt matter what it looks like outwardly, it matters how it proclaims itself, and now it is completely different. The end of the presence of Russian Troops in the republic of gagauzia, socalled , there were no Russian Troops, and it still did not prevent this problem from being solved. And here the Russian Troops, the question is not even that they did not ensure the safety of civilians population of karabakh, they did not even try to ensure the safety of the socalled nkr leadership. Although, as you understand, they could, could, no, the Azerbaijani Security forces would not fight with the russian peacekeepers specifically, they could randomly shoot some car there, but if you go into a Russian Military unit there and say hand over these and these to us, that would not be the case , well, if there had been talks at the level of the defense ministers there, thats a different story, but here they didnt even try, and everyone now sees that putin is vladimir volodymyrovych. You know, there is this word with five letters, he is now written on the walls of the Russian Embassy in armenia, but in order to be intelligent in our Television Program , he is a traitor, he is an ordinary traitor, boys dont behave like that in general, but he is a boy by definition, by what definition , its not a concept, its just an ordinary sight, in that one, like a traitor, yes. Agreed, and killed , yes, with the leaders of karabakh, a traitor , guaranteed security, this last president in general, a chekist, you know what kind of person this is, this president you talked about, yes called, who signed the decree on the dissolution of karabakh, he was the president for a week, the previous president resigned, precisely because he understood what it was all about and did not want to do all this, he was not allowed to negotiate with the azerbaijanis. to do, he resigned, and the parliament of the socalled karabakh elected as president a person who worked all his life in the National Security service of the selfproclaimed karabakh, but in fact it is just a branch not of the armenian, but of the sovietrussian special services, and these people are essentially connected with lubyanka, thats all such an operation was carried out, now the question arises, here i really am, imagine that you are the president , you have already imagined yourself as the first secretary of the Central Committee of azerbaijan, imagine that you are the president , the president of abkhazia, huh, and here you see it, well, it naturally arises in our country question, dont breathe, freeze and pretend that i dont exist, well, what if something critical happens, that you too will be arrested and brought to tbilisi for separatism, well, that is, you need to, so it turns out that you need to get out somehow from this situation . Yes, if there is an opportunity to betray putin and russia, why not betray them . When, if you dont betray them, they will surely betray you, not inside, so on thursday. It can be said that putin questioned both the prestige of russia as a state and the prestige of russia as a mafia, and all this in order to order the armenians, to punish the armenians. For the fact that they want to elect their own government, it doesnt seem to you that this is as crazy as with ukraine, its all the same, its just schizophrenia, we will dismember this ukraine, bomb it, we will annex half of it, we will not annex it to poland simply because you you understand, yanukovych should have been your president , because i like yanukovych like a childs toy, i want yanukovych, and here i want sarksyan, i want it, and if not, i will destroy you all, as he told this Prime Minister hand over israel to navtali benet, i will destroy them, and why . And because they dont obey, thats it. I dont know if this can be considered politics, because you and i have been here for this whole hour, we have almost talked about the caucasus, this is almost all of our air, but it actually shows not very healthy trends, it is not some cold calculation, just you know, a man who thinks hes some kind of biblical hero, and hes sending some kind of curses, now i m going to send you a locust there, just so you can see, well, i m sorry, but he doesnt look like. At all, but he has such, such a mania for grandeur, and he thinks all the time that you will surely die from this punishment, you understand that if pashinyan stands up now, and then in legitimate elections there he will hand over power to some other political force, yes, and in armenia there have always been elections, thats the trick, they just chose prorussian politicians, but then at some point these prorussian politicians simply could not hold on to power during the next election cycle. This will mean that armenia has finally left the sphere of influence of russia, by the way, this can be said about the entire south caucasus, because it is difficult to call azerbaijan a country with unpredictable elections, but one way or another, it is a different system of government, in other International Terms georgia is also founded on languages, so we are talking about the extent to which georgia is connected to moscow. The current georgian government, but in any case in this case, these are electoral politicians, you understand, electoral ones, they have no opportunity to falsify the elections, if one day the Georgian Society wants another government, it will elect it, and no Bidzina Ivanishvili will be able to prevent it in any way, and this already says that these countries, they are different, well, of course, azerbaijan, with its managed democracy, lets say, may seem more similar to russia than georgia or armenia, but it is a managed democracy, not russian totalitarianism, in azerbaijan there is the official opposition , so to speak, in azerbaijan there is no fear of the people of the people in front of the government, which is in russia, in azerbaijan , cooperating with the international community, it releases political prisoners, and in ilham aliyev, he balances between the full. Of your power, yes, and the power of your dear wife, you also have to remember that this is a family tandem, putin is not putin , he will never have such a happy family life, you understand, wake up to the fact that you have a wife and she is not just your wife, and the second comrade, the first vicepresident , can only dream of such things it is possible, maybe, i think, well, but if no joke, in any case, this is a whole system of relations with the world, putin is everything. Got rid of this system a long time ago, so i believe that by and large, as long as russia is trapped in our war, it will lose more and more, why i say that it depends on our capabilities in general, to lose, the southern caucasus, and i really hope that it will happen, i want to thank you, khrystyna , for the opportunity to discuss this difficult topic in such detail, and thank you, dear viewers, for listening to our khrystyna for so long. Discussions and saw that khrystyna has already taken all the management positions that she could take during this broadcast, and only i am left. Greetings to all viewers of espresso, annayevalnik is with you and its time to learn about the most important events at the moment, ill start with the one in donetsk region, this night the russians hit the private sector of one of the settlements with missiles of the s300 complex. As a result of the destruction of the residential building, all family members, a 40yearold man with his 36yearold wife and their 16yearold son were injured. With my grandmother