Cortines goal and. The to come up with a hello and welcome to to the point it is a question to introduce our guests beginning with about a municipal off he is a colleague here on the w. s russian desk and he says putin wants to keep the power and make russia great again. And im very glad to have with us alexander our hes a political scientist an analyst specializing on russia and his view as a whole this is change like the fall of the berlin wall in 1989 how explosive it will be remains to be seen and a pleasure to have with us sabina she is a correspondent a german broadcaster georgetown taddeo and she says sewing divisions supporting dictators subverting borders russian. Remains on the wrong side of history. So. Its seems like supporting dictators and subvert subverting borders used to come a bit easier to add a mere protean after protests over the rigged election in belarus began he waited weeks to affirm his support for the go last time armenia and azerbaijan clashed it took russia just 4 days to quell the conflict now it seems to be reluctant to stop the fighting whats going on. I would say. When it comes to. This. At the end no question for poutine who she wants to support of course its because franco and t. Wouldnt allow it that a mass protests cant change regime thats what chief us all of the time and there is no way to not supporting the question of course its possible that she creates a figure like it so quote Opposition Leader and install him in belarus with the help of public on court t. V. Journalist and so on and fake news and information well thats all possible but its a 1st step. I wouldnt say that he really thought about dont confirming and not supporting the question no no idea im sorry member you say russia wants to hold on to putin wants to hold on to power is his power actually at risk certainly his Approval Ratings appear to be quite i dont see any risk for witness power and keep the power of the most normal thing for a new british from religion or political in the war so the political systems are different for the rich to keep power is the same were they were a country with a so i dont think back to a question i dont think and there is. Appropriate since then go up and down by the norio erm then sort of for him last time his poll ratings were declining in 2012 he quickly revived his standings with moves like the annexation of the crimea are we seeing a different strategy now in order bird thinks 20112124 have their huge must purchased on the streets of moscow richer or richer there escalate the very professional or russian authorities in crimea was 20143 years later. So i dont think going to connection with the river urgings 2011 from preference to crimea up of 3 years later. Sort of the question simply is the question of whether were seeing a different strategy now well they say how russia is dealing with the conflicts in the neighborhood know the threats theyre on the same the focus of a russian government is much more veiled political so whats and go so russian publics for some reason some for some parts because the clearest shift from domestic issues for economy for medical problems which we have it in context of course on the crisis the russian government is very much busy you know politics syria libya. Belarus with many many issues on the global level and not paying much attention to the domestic issues in the toilets and grosser russian public and russian russians inside the country because i dont think the other russian president would be less interested in deal politics but probably more interested in domestic issues. Alexander you know russia well from what ive read you have dined with president putin and youve also consulted for major russian firms like gazprom so you say in your Opening Statement that the Current Situation could bring about change like the fall of the berlin wall what do you mean exactly where is this change going i mean that the world is facing radical dramatic changes and i compare the changes will witness with the changes which we have sold 30 years ago. I think that there is nobody in all to collapse but the world is moving from one world order from the i would say we pull our world order which was designed as a liberal world order by the west by the United States and the European Union after the end of communism where moving now to a new stage in World History where the world will be defined by major powers not only by the west but by a very strong china. By a new russia was new strengths but also a more military mind its russia and also a strong. Movement and a force which will witness also from the selves and do you see any change in putins way of dealing with the tensions in the neighborhood compared to how he might have handled it earlier you know i just came back from the valdai club in moscow you could ask him to the question. Would he deliver again this speech which he gave to the german stock exactly 20 years ago where he said the cold war is over. Would you do the same speech again i ask him and he said yes but in a softer way and what he confirmed is for him is the nato expansion whats the of the mother of all the problems which. He faces with the west this is a russian view of course but the same this is a geopolitical fight which the russians have today with the west and with as the russians over nato expansion over values or many things what i wanted to say about the neighborhood i think that putin is not really afraid that the west will take advantage of the changes in kyrgyzstan in armenia there by john and bill russia way because all those countries are much better and much closer connected was russia than crane was 66 years ago bill russia is comically completely dependent on russia killed as well because kyrgyzstan is also a member of the euro Eurasian Club and in azerbaijan and armenia both countries also who gets weapons from russia and i can honestly intertwined with was moscow you know other very briefly your Opening Statement said russia remains on the wrong side of history what would it take to put it on the right side and is about to be put in capable of delivering not what oleksandr just sit makes me thinking about the past. The situation compared to what we have now its feuds like the fall of the war when i think about this for my time it was just a period of happiness of hope of of joy and i cant see this in this moment. The other way around i would see no nothing nothing what do we see in the how is she here is there were changes the coronavirus. Taking over their lives your whole life and you know nothing nothing at all but. To come back to the question. Protein and russia are on the right side of history would mean to stop interference in internet france or other countries sawing discord in other countries it too would too to do something with positive energy not just everything with such negative energy of what i see now and thats what i mean thank you very much let us take a closer look at now at where history is taking the level of managed to democracy is a term used to describe not only russia system but also those of key neighbors like the us but many people there have had enough. Mass protests have been held for weeks and bellow groups against alleged Election Fraud in the president ial election president look at Security Forces have brutally beaten down the protests and he has thrown opposition politicians and demonstrators in jail but the opposition is not giving up hundreds of thousands of bellary sians continue to take to the streets calling for a general strike and demanding that luka shingles step down Opposition Leaders. Had to leave the country for her own safety the fight for our rights in belarus now for dignity and im sure that the well succeed. Russian president putin supports the government but is continuing to hold back as long as look at power is not truly endangered. When i made a difficult situation in belarus the relations with russia have a solid foundation. How far will putin go to maintain stability on russias external borders. From here whats your thinking in terms about could we see an generational change there or do you think that the shadow in the end will prevail perhaps not least thanks to help from put it i would divide it between what they hope to see. Her for if they hope to see a resume change or may name the various women in germany hope there for. A time a friend for her and it doesnt change the course of a script is like when a star or a couple of months ago last year it mr. The earth by the best to be president for france thrower. Does appear to from the public little little very very far are afraid of so alexander of our what if anything might prompt to put in to actively intervene how close are his relations with the question go close close relations but so we shouldnt forget that. Its not put in puppets hes doing his own policy whenever russia is too strong for him to press to to do is press a button in the end here and so what are the worst in my opinion. It will not survive the next presidency he will go but not today in a couple of years but before that he will change the constitution and we will see you i think some some of the power structure of. Power momentums in this country so be another if putin continues to exercise restraint quit that incentivize opposition in other places kyrgyzstan for example where were already seeing tensions or kazakhstan even do you think we could see further unrest in other parts of the neighborhood i would i would say that this depends on the situation of these countries and of course there is no protein in the root who can stop people going on streets as we saw this or see this and been a ruse and in other countries not everything turns around putin and thats thats very important to know and not to feel just because put you in doesnt lie such a mass demonstrations such call are over lucians that they shouldnt start it and i wouldnt agree that this is the scenery a lie in a sewer era i think the time of looking over yes she years protein thats right she is afraid of nothing and excess in his country in this time and. This is not over but you cant stop. Its people thinking they want to change. And so long to change isnt done and thats why i am not so pessimistic about those that are me you told us that to the group degree that there is negative Public Opinion in russia about putin it has to do with the perception that hes not doing enough about domestic challenges so does it matter to russians how we handle these tensions and conflicts in the area yes and no more yes its mothers because food preparing their close attention to a probably urgent in their arsenal remember is concerned about as a priority and on the run and on the other hand theres no such things like free and democratic elections in russia so if their populations in the privet the government theres no chance through a move or some sort of this government or the other camp of government so even if you opposition or not i mean she can do what they were here likes on you tube but theres no chance for him to be a part of establishment of the become a bunch of political experiment and change things in the country so the pollution there can be angry and your government is as much as you want but you have no chance to change to change things on the legal way. Let me take us to another place in the neighborhood namely yeah the enclave of nagano kyra back to nato member turkey is now intervening in support of john while russia at least in the past has actually delivered weapons to both sides so whats putin really want there are simple he doesnt want to loose is there by john knows that armenia is basically part of the of russia because it is part of the Eurasian Union its part of the military union with russia and its dependent on russia but for portugal its more beneficial if turkey has its influence on in the caucus with then to have nato bases on the american supervision in the caucasus and therefore he doesnt want to lose a budge on to they took so i mean i was nodding there is turkey actually looking to challenge russias head to moni in the region and do you think it could succeed i think. Yes yes. It is possible but i think the. In my opinion see more important thing is that up. Adam took a present and is so he was for 4 full protein and to cant risk to loose at all on and on its very important to saw discord and to divide nato thats the most important thing and they they both know what they do and they both wont risk they are i wouldnt say kind of cooperation but but they depend on each other and thats why i think there is a certain strain off putting and maybe the reason is that looking at the e. U. Has been accused of doing too little to push back against both turkey and. Interestingly enough russia joined forces with france and the u. S. To call for a cease fire is there perhaps even an opening here in regard to the gonna come back and the tensions between a 1000000 azerbaijan for closer cooperation between europe and russia i research would be this very recent so march im not sure how i think it will be developed its. Absolutely agreed with you putin and theyre gong to bring the game or not though its true in my opinion so i have. Not the prognosis and future developments on this topic how how close can i should go to europe and you know im a member of the kind of a. Thank you very much elsewhere cooperation between russia and the west looks further away than ever following the short lived pledge by both sides to reset russian American Relations an array of developments have driven the 2 further apart. Ever since the successful revolution in ukraine the nation has been a thorn in the side of russias president putin in february 24th teen he annexed the ukrainian peninsula of crimea supported by moscow separatists in Eastern Ukraine also quickly gained ground. In syrias civil war Russian Troops are fighting alongside those of the dictator. After the conflict russia wants to establish a Permanent Military presence in syria this would give russia direct access to the mediterranean and enable it to become a major player in the middle east. Putin also wants to exert influence in the west using k. G. B. Methods for example russia allegedly tried to influence the us elections in 2016 using Cyber Attacks and spreading fake news American Secret Services suspect there is currently a russian dissin from ation campaign designed to help trump in the current president ial election. It shows the level of political culture or the absence of such i reiterate we dont interfere. Will putin succeed in destabilizing the west. Looks under far in many respects trump with his undermining of trust in that the United States in its democratic system with his criticism of multilateralism of nato in particular has really played into proteins hence would you say that is by accident or by design you will ask me probably who is better for russia biden or porch and i think both are but for russia i mean for put you for russia or with biden at least hopes to continue the talks on rearmament. And. With trump he may create a new world order and this may be a dream in russia and he knows that for trump the big enemy is china and not russia he wants to do to make deals with russia whether biden clearly said that russia is the biggest threats for the west let me come back to the question posed at the end of that short report that was about whether putin is successfully destabilizing the west right now authorities in both the us and europe report significant evidence of russian descent from ation campaigns put teens neighborhood may be increasingly explosive as weve talked about but is he nonetheless succeeding quite well in exporting instability to the United States for example i would say yes absolutely he is an expert in this and really saw a very short period of time this parity yeltsin years when information of war didnt play of all but putin revived this and houston he uses this as a tool as a very effective tool to meddle in internal affairs to too small to score in not just in our neighbor countries like ukraine like like elect germany despite we are a direct neighbor but. In the u. S. And the overall goal i think is to slender democracy itself and thats the very very dangerous thing and its its more important than Everything Else i in my opinion and at this point they meet together. Trunk. Hootie and the 2 dictators in front of her and thats really newt. Challenge and to serious challenge a lot of fear in view of all of that and in view of the recent attack on alex in of on the the russian opposition politician should europe be doing more to sanction putins abuses of power and his interference and if so what additional measures would work well received. European sanctions in russia since for 6 years from now for the ukraine and crimea and Eastern Ukraine and the question is not if europe should do more but how effective this may honeys them are how much or how much influence the sanctions have on their behavior over us is it possible to change their russian behavior by sanctions and the answer is not really because we dont have any any substantial change in russian behavior on the euro political. Stage as a result of dissension so he can. Discussing science in europe and europe can impose sanctions some more russian fear or tree more russian citizens but the question is how how effective the sanctions will be. I think that there are some leading german politicians among them former chancellor Gerhard Schroeder have argued in recent years that its time for a german russian reset are those voices growing quieter now after the attack on a volley you know sure they are nonexistent anymore i think. The problems with russia are obvious. With the europe it was the European Union with that same time we shouldnt destroy in my view what has been built between germany and russia for europe for European Security in the past 30 years and in a dramatic way this. Is can disappear and i think probably yes the wests will wants to punish russia than punish russia but on the other hand there are so many aspects where we should cooperate in future because we are not in the east west conflict anymore but in the north conflict we need a common view on how to. Talk to fight was the challenges which stands in front of us from the south for europe and for russia sabina other ukraine crimea syria there are enormous financial costs to putins expansive moves could that prove to be a problem for him in the end of history not russia is rich enough to do this and. Of course it would be much smarter to spend the money in the own country but he doesnt do it and i want to say that i cant agree that we juanita and russia to the same level destroyed the relationship as attacks on us at that not not germanys destroyed sort a ship not i kind i. Have to say that we are just about out of time but let me come quickly back to our title which asked what is the put it. Go and write america fourteens goal was to restore russias position in the world as a Global Player what do you think the history books will write will they say he succeeded might succeed just. For struct enough that was short as can be so a clear yes to that answer from that to me is piss off and many thanks to all of you for being with us today and thanks to all of you out there for tuning in see you soon i buy. Up. Was. Put. Up of a. Every 2 seconds a person is forced to flee their home. The consequences are disastrous our documentary series displaced tomatoes in greenwood the exodus of gonna stop us. Factories are being deserted. Farmers are facing bankruptcy the current 6 free trade. In 15 minutes on d w. One continent. 700000000 people. With their own personal stories. We explore every day life for. What europeans fear and what they hope for. Some good stone there are. 90 minutes on d w. What secrets lie behind these walls. Discover new adventures in 360 degree. And explore fascinating World Heritage sites. D w World Heritage 360 get the happen now. Imagine how many foolish old loves us turn out right now the Climate Change event hoffa story. Faces life less leeway from just one week. How much worse can really get. We still have time to ask im going. To subscribe to this like this. The fight against the coronavirus pandemic. Has the rate of infection been developing. Measures are being taken. What does the latest research say. Information and context. The coronavirus of the Coalition Special monday to friday w. Is a state that we use like from berlin we will not give up our valley as france suffers another apparent islamist terror attack president thousands to not let his nation be intimidated by hate you sons of thinking if we finish attacked again its because of our values oh belief in freedom to