A seasoned washington veteran so let us cross now to salt lake city. But unfortunately it looks like they have not yet taken the stage but you can see there the set up that they have youve got 2 desks spaced apart plexiglas between the 2 next to each desk. Yeah which is something that was actually quite contentious coming into this debate was the question of what kind of coronavirus measures were going to be in place to protect both candidates well both Vice President mike pence and harris from coronavirus stacey what was the debate there over the last barriers. And his team did im sorry of course biden harris wanted the up but mike pence his team scoffed at the idea that there is no proof that this provides any kind of protection and his Main Communications person said that harris is free to build a fortress around herself if she wants to but but his camp with not interested in that and then they wound up caving which i mean why make it more of an issue but interesting because pay tens is of course in charge of the Coronavirus Taskforce so he actually does have an official responsibility in terms of the United States response to how theyve been handling the pandemic. We do know that these give you some details about the plexiglas there we do know that they finally agreed that the candidates would be 12 feet apart right is roughly 4 metres more than the 2 meters of distance that we generally require people to keep to try and prevent the spread of the virus extra safe extra safe. So there are questions from the biden camp whether pence should really have been there at all because he did spend so much time in close contact with President Trump and his inner circle of many people from the inner circle who have tested positive for coverts and he was that what people are calling the super spreader events now we dont know if this is where President Donald Trump got a contract at the coronavirus but there was the rose garden event where he was promoting his nominee for the Supreme Court amy conan there it and there. Very little social distancing people were hugging shaking hands some were kissing on the cheek. Very few mask and it wasnt safe to to have the head of the Coronavirus Task force in the midst of all of this was very worrying for the Biden Campaign and as we said earlier it seems that light of covert 19 positive diagnoses are coming one after the other throughout the white house with trumps advisor Stephen Miller being the latest to fall victim to i think there are also a couple of washington journalists who also had positive certain elice there were at least 3 republican senators 2 of which or on the committee for to decide for the hearings for the for the Supreme Court nominee midevening from the university of you getting word that the debate is starting so lets cross life now and only Vice President for bait of 2020 sponsored by the nonpartisan commission on president ial debates im susan page of usa today it is my honor to moderate this debate an important part of our democracy in Kingsbury Hall tonight we have a small and socially distant audience and weve taken extra precautions during this pandemic among other things everyone in the audience is required to wear a face mask and the candidates will be seated 12 feet apart. The audience is enthusiastic about their candidates but theyve agreed to express that enthusiasm only twice at the end of the debate and now when i introduce the candidates please welcome california senator komla harris and Vice President mike pence. Thank. You senator harrison Vice President pence thank you for being here were meeting as President Trump and the 1st lady continued to undergo treatment in washington after testing positive for covert 19 we send our thoughts and prayers to them for their rapid and complete recovery and for the recovery of everyone afflicted by the coronavirus the 2 campaigns in the commission on president ial debates have agreed to the ground rules for good night im here to enforce them on behalf of the millions of americans who are watching one note no one in either campaign or at the commission or anywhere else has been told in advance what topics or raise or what questions ill ask this 90 minute debate will be divided into 9 segments of about 10 minutes each all begin a segment by posing a question to each of you sometimes the same question sometimes a different question on the same topic you will then have 2 minutes to answer without interruption by me or the other candidate then will take 6 minutes or so to discuss the issue at that point although there will always be more to say well move on to the next topic. We want a debate that is lively but americans also deserve a discussion that is civil these are to mulch was times but we can and will have a respectful exchange about the big issues facing our nation lets begin with the ongoing pandemic that has cost our country so much senator harris the coronavirus is not under control over the past week Johns Hopkins reports that 39 states have had more covert cases over the past 7 days than in the week before 9 states have set new records even if a vaccine is released the next administration will face hard choices what would a biden did ministration do in january and february that a Trump Administration wouldnt do would you impose new lock downs for businesses and schools and hotspots a federal mandate to or manse you have 2 minutes to respond without interruption and he says and well the American People have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any president ial administration in the history of our country and here are the facts 210000 dead people in our country in just the last several months over 7000000 people who have contracted this disease one in 5 businesses closed were looking at front line workers who have been treated like sacrificial workers we are looking at over 30000000 people who are in the last several months had to file for unemployment and heres the thing on january 28th the Vice President and the president more informed about the nature of this pandemic they were informed that its lethal in consequence that it is airborne that it will affect young people and that it would be contracted because it is airborne. And they knew what was happening and they didnt tell you can you imagine if you knew on january 28th as opposed to march 13th what they knew what you might have done to prepare they knew and they covered it up the president said it was a hoax they minimize the seriousness of it the president said youre on one side of his ledger if you wear a mask youre on the other side of his ledger if you dont and in spite of all of that today they still dont have a plan they still dont have a plan will joe biden does and our plan is about what we need to do around a National Strategy for Contact Tracing for testing for administration of the vaccine and making sure that it will be free for all that is the plan that joe biden has and that i have knowing that we have to get ahold of what has been going on and we need to save our country and joe biden is the best leader to do that and frankly this administration has forfeited thank you say our right to reelection based on this thank you senator harris Vice President pence more than 210000 americans have died of covert 19 since february the u. S. Death toll as a percentage of our population is higher than that of almost every other wealthy nation on earth for instance our death rate is 2 and a half times that of canada next door you head the administrations Coronavirus Task force why is the u. S. Death toll as a percentage of our population higher than that of almost every other wealthy country and you have 2 minutes to respond without interruption susan thank you and i want to thank the commission and the university of utah for posting this event center here is a privilege to be on the stage with you in our nations gone through a very challenging time this year. But i want the American People to know that from the very 1st day President Donald Trump has put the health of america 1st before there were more than 5 cases in the United States all people who had returned from china President Donald Trump did what no other american president had ever done and that was he suspended all travel from china the 2nd largest economy in the world now senator Joe Biden Biden opposed that decision he said it was enough over it and hysterical but i can tell you having led the white house Coronavirus Task force that that decision alone by president from brought us invaluable time to stand up the greatest National Mobilization since world war 2 and i believe it saved hundreds of thousands of american lives because with that time we were able to reinvent testing more than 115000000 tests have been done to date we were able to see to the delivery of billions of supplies there were doctors and nurses had the resources support they needed and we began really before the month of february was our to develop a vaccine and to develop medicines and therapeutics and in saving lives all along the way and under President Trumps leadership operation warp speed we believe will have literally tens of millions of doses of vaccine before the end of this year the reality is when you look at the biden plan it reads an awful lot like what President Trump and i in our task force have been doing every step of the way and quite frankly when i look at their plan that talks about events and testing creating new p. P. A. Developing a vaccine. It looks a little bit like plagiarism which is some joe biden knows a little bit about and i think the American People know that this is a president who has put blanco as miracle 1st in the American People i believe with my heart can be thank you for all of the sacrifices they have made it safe thank you mr jenner and now its so dangerous like to respond absolutely whatever the Vice President is claiming the administration has done clearly it hasnt worked when youre looking at over 210000 dead bodies in our country american lives that have been lost families that are grieving that loss and you know the Vice President is the head of the task force and knew on january 28th how serious this was and then but thanks to bob woodward we learned that they knew about it and then when that was exposed the Vice President said when asked well why didnt you all tell anybody he said because the president wanted people to remain calm well lets go i know but so isnt this isnt something i want to have you here mr Vice President speaking. You dont know if you know more seconds and then well give the Vice President chance to say i want to ask the American People how calm were you when you were panicked about where youre going to get your next roll of toilet paper how calm were you when your kids were sent home from school and you didnt know when they could go back how colleague were you then when your children is couldnt see your parents because you were afraid they could kill them lets give Vice President pence a chance to respond Vice President you have one minute to risk you know theres not a day gone by that i have thought of every American Family thats lost a loved one and i want all of you to know that youll always be in our hearts and in our purse but when you see what the American People have done over these last 8 months hasnt worked. Thats a great disservice to the sucker for isis the American People of maine for the reality that if im if i may finish the reality is dr fouts he said everything that he told the president in the oval office the president told the American People now president dr i will tell you has boundless confidence in the American People and always spoke with confidence that we get through this together but when you say it hasnt worked when dr dr bergson our medical experts came to us in the 2nd week of march they said if the president didnt take the unprecedented step of shutting down roughly half of the American Economy that we could lose 2200000 americans thats the reality thank you they also seclusive we did everything right susan we could still lose more than 200000 americans if i spent in one life lost is things many susan but the American People i believe deserve credit for the sacrifices that they have made putting the health of their family in their neighbors 1st or doctors or nurses or 1st thank you very unpleasant pence and im going to speak up on behalf of what the American People have done by president and you were in the front row in a rose garden event 11 days ago what seems to have been a super spreader event for Senior Administration congressional officials no social distancing few mask and now a cluster of coronavirus cases among those who were there how can you expect americans to follow the administrations safety guidelines to protect themselves from cold it when you are at the white house have not been doing so. Well the American People have demonstrated over the last 8 months theyve been given the facts theyre willing to put the health of their families and their neighbors and people they dont even know 1st. President trump and i have great confidence in the American People and in their ability to take that information and put it into practice in the height of the epidemic when we were losing. A heartbreaking number of 2500 americans that day we surge resources to new jersey and new york and new orleans and detroit we told the American People would need to be done in the American People made the sacrifices when the outbreak in the sunbelt happened this summer again american step forward but the reality is the work of the president of the United States goes on and they could see on the Supreme Court of the United States has come upon us and the president introduced judge amy cohen as their thank you thank you very perhaps if i may say that rose garden event than regular speculation about it my wife karen and i were there and honored to be there many of the people who were at that event susan actually were tested for corona virus and it was an outdoor event which all of our scientists regularly and routinely advise the difference here is President Trump and i trust the American People to make choices in the best interest of their Health Joe Biden and kamel harris consistently talk about mandates and not not just mandates with the coronavirus but a government takeover of health thank you thank you very new deal all government control were about freedom and respecting the freedom of the American People lets talk about respecting the American People to respect the American People when you tell them the truth you respect the American People when you have the courage which weve all lead our speaking of those things that you may not want people to hear but they need to hear so they can protect themselves but this is ministration stood on information that if you had as a parent if you had as a worker knowing you didnt have enough money saved up and that youre standing in a photo line. Because of the ineptitude of a administration that was unwilling to speak the truth to the American People so lets talk about caring about the American People the American People have had to sacrifice far too much because of the incompetence of this administration it is asking too much of the people who were talking about what i did as half and still much of the people look at they would not be equipped with the information they need to help themselves to protect their parent rosen and their im sorry i come here is senator harris i mean im sorry and im tom im no no your senators to me but for life to get back to normal Dr Anthony Fauci and other experts say that most of the people who can be backs native need to be vaccinated but half of americans now say they wouldnt take a vaccine if it was released now if the Trump Administration approved the vaccine before or after the election should americans take it and would you take it if the Public Health professionals if dr fauci if the doctors tell us that we should take it ill be the 1st in line to take it absolutely but if Donald Trump Tells us that we stake it im not taking it Vice President pence theres been a lot of repartitioned from this pandemic in recent days the president s diagnosis of covert 1000 has underscored the importance of the job that you hold and that you are seeking thats our 2nd topic tonight its the role of the Vice President one of you will make history on january 20th you will be the Vice President to the oldest president the United States has ever had donald trump will be 74 years old on Inauguration Day joe biden will be 78 years old that already has raised concerns among some voters concerns that have been sharpened by President Trumps hospitalization in recent days. Vice president pence have you had a conversation or reached an agreement with President Trump about safeguards or procedures when it comes to the issue of president ial disability and if not do you think you should you have 2 minutes without interruption will susan thank you although i would like to go back i think really move on well because you have i would like to go back because the reality is that were going to have a vaccine senator in record time in unheard of time in less than a year we have 5 companies in phase 3 Clinical Trials and were right now producing tens of millions of doses so. The fact that you continue to undermine Public Confidence in a vaccine if the vaccine emerges during the trumpet ministration i think is is unconscionable and senator i just ask you stop playing politics with peoples lives the reality is that we will have a vaccine we believe before the end of this year and it will have the capacity to save countless american lives and your continuous undermining of confidence in a vaccine is just its just unacceptable and let me also say you know the reality is when you talk about about failure in this administration. We actually do know what failure looks like in a pandemic it was 2009 the swine flu arrived in the United States thankfully it was ended up in the not being as lethal as the corona virus but before the end of the year when joe biden was Vice President of the United States not 7 and a half 1000000 people contracted the swine flu 60000000 americans contracted the swine flu if the swine flu had been as lethal as the corona virus in 2009 when joe biden as Vice President we would have lost 2000000 american lives his own chief of staff ron klain would say last year that it was pure luck that they did quote Everything Possible wrong and we learned from that they left the Strategic National stockpile empty they left an empty and hollow plan but we seem to learn from it and i think as American People see again can be present tense im sorry what we have done and senator please thank you very much undermining confidence in the vaccine senator harris let me ask you the same question that i asked Vice President pence which is have you had a conversation or reached an agreement with Vice President biden about safeguards our procedures when it comes to the issue of president ial disability and if not and if you win the election next month do you think you should you have 2 minutes uninterrupted so let me tell you 1st of all the day i got a call from joe biden it was actually is a call. Asking me to serve with him on this ticket was probably one of my role to that memorable days in my life i you know i thought about my mother who came to the United States that the age of 19 and gave birth to me at the age of 25. At Kaiser Hospital in oakland california. The thought that id be sitting here right now. Would make her proud and she must be looking down on this. Joe and i were raised in a very similar way we were raised with values that are about hard work. About the value and the dignity of Public Service and about the importance of fighting for the dignity of all people and i think joe asked me to serve with him because you know i have a career that included being elected the 1st woman District Attorney of San Francisco where i created models of innovation for for Law Enforcement in terms of reform of the criminal Justice System i was elected the 1st. Woman of color and black woman to be elected attorney general the state of california where i ran the 2nd Largest Department of justice in the United States 2nd only to the United States department of justice and there i took on everything from Transnational Criminal Organizations to the big banks that were taking advantage of homeowners to for profit colleges that were taking advantage of veterans and then of course now i serve in the United States senate as only the 2nd black woman ever elected to the United States senate i serve on the Senate Intelligence committee where ive been in regular receipt of classified information about threats to our nation and hotspots around the world i have traveled the world i have met with our soldiers and are in war zones and i think joe has asked me to serve with him because he knows that we share we share a purpose which is about lifting up the American People and after the 4 years that we have seen of donald trump unifying our country around our common values and principles thank you senator harris you know hes it news or President Trump nor Vice President biden has released the sort of Detailed Health information that had become the modern norm until the 26000 election and in recent days President Trumps doctors have given misleading answers or refused to answer basic questions about his health and my question to each of you in turn is is this information voters deserve to know Vice President pence would you like to 1st. Thank you. And let me say on behalf of the president and the 1st lady oh move weve all been. The outpouring of prayers and concern for the president and i do believe its emblematic of the prayers and the concern that have assured forth for every american impacted by the coronavirus but the care the president received at Walter Reed Hospital the white House Doctors was exceptional and the transparency that they practiced all along the way will continue the American People have a right to know about the health and well being of their president and will continue to do that but im just extremely grateful and was more than more than a little moved by the broad and bipartisan support and as senator i want to thank you and joe biden for your expressions genuine concern and i also want to congratulate you. As i did on that phone call on this is sort of nature of your nomination. I never expected to be on the stage 4 years ago so i know the feeling but. The reality is. Weve got an election before the American People in the midst of this challenging year and the stakes have never been higher they think they always has never been as i want to give senator harris a chance to respond to the same question i asked which is do voters have a right to know more Detailed Health information about president ial candidates and especially about president s especially when theyre facing some kind of challenge absolutely and thats why joe biden has been so incredibly transparent and certainly by contrast the president has not both in terms of Health Records but also lets look at taxes we now know because of the great Investigative Journalism that donald trump paid 700 50. 00 in taxes when i 1st heard about it i literally said you mean 750000. 00 and it was like no 750. 00 we now know donald trump oh those it is in debt for 400000000. 00 and just so everyone is clear when when we say in that it means you owe money to somebody. And theyd be really good to know who the president of the United States the commander in chief owes money to because the American People have a right to know what is influencing the president s decisions and its he making those decisions on the best interest of the American People of you or felt interest so this is and im glad you asked about transparency because there has to be across the board joe has been incredibly transparent over many many years and one thing we all know about joe he puts it all out there he he is honest he is forthright but donald trump on the other hand has been about covering up every thanks thank you senator so i want to give you a chance to respond Vice President well look i respect the fact that joe biden spent 47 years in public life i respect your Public Service as well thank you the American People have president was businessman job creator hes paid tens of millions of dollars in taxes payroll taxes property taxes hes created tens of thousands of american jobs the president said those public reports are not accurate and the president also released literally stacks of Financial Disclosures the American People can review just as the law allows but the distinction here is that joe biden 47 years in Public Service compared to President Donald Trump who brought all of that experience 4 years ago thank you but thank you my turn to this economy around by cutting taxes rolling back regulations thank you thank you guys for their genes fighting for free and fair trade and all and i think you guys present it joe biden and common harris you know thats a great segue into our 3rd one which is about the economy this is been another aspect of life for americans its been so affected by this coronavirus we have a jobs Crisis Brewing on friday we learned that the Unemployment Rate had declined to 7. 9 percent in september but. The job growth it stalled and that was before the latest round of layoffs and for lows in the Airline Industry at disney and elsewhere hundreds of thousands of discouraged workers have stopped looking for work nearly 11000000. 00 jobs that existed at the beginning of the year have been replaced those hardest hit include latinos blacks and women so there harris the biden hears campaign has proposed new programs to boost the economy and you would pay for that new spending by raising 4 trillion dollars in taxes on wealthy individuals and corporations some economists warn that could curb entrepreneurial ventures that fuel growth and create jobs would reason taxes put the recovery at risk and you have 2 minutes to answer uninterrupted thank you. On the issue of the economy and i think there couldnt be a more fundamental difference between donald trump and Joe Biden Joe biden believes you measure the health and the strength of americas economy based on the health and the strength of the American Worker and the American Family on the other hand you have donald trump who measures the strength of the economy based on how rich people have done which is why he passed a tax bill benefiting the top one percent and the biggest corporations of america leading to a 2 trillion dollars deficit that the American People and i have to pay for on day 1. 00 joe biden will repeal that tax bill hell get rid of it and what hell do with the money is invest it in the American People and through a plan that is about investing in infrastructure something that donald trump said he would do i remember hearing about some infrastructure week i dont think it ever happened but joe biden will do that hell invest in infrastructure its about upgrading our roads and bridges but also investing in clean energy and Renewable Energy job is going to