Trumpet ministration defends the deployment of federal officers against protesters despite objections from local leaders these Police Officers are not stormtroopers they are not the gestapo as some have described them that description is offensive its hyperbolic and its dishonest. On the latest escalation of tensions between the worlds 2 largest economies the United States has altered china to close its consulate in Houston Texas the u. S. State Department Said this was necessary to protect American Intellectual property beijing described the move as a political provocation and the serious violation of International Hours after the order was issued firefighters were called to the culture the building. Bins on fire inside the courtyard at the chinese consulate in houston witnesses said they could smell paper being burned the 1st whiff of a bigger story because this firefighters arrived Chinese State media started reporting the u. S. Had ordered the consulate to be closed. Its a political provocation unilaterally launched by the u. S. Side which seriously violates International Law basic norms governing International Relations and the bilateral consular agreements between china and the u. S. China strongly condemn such an outrageous move. Beat you to it or you talk to the in a statement the u. S. State Department Said it would not tolerate violations of our sovereignty and intimidation of our people the u. S. Directive comes a day after 2 chinese nationals were charged with hacking said to be working as spies theyre accused among other things of trying to steal Coronavirus Vaccine research. Campaign targeted intellectual property and confidential Business Information held by the private sector including covert 19 related treatment testing and vaccines. Back in houston this was his closest firefighters could get to the consulate they werent allowed in chinese officials have 72 hours to get out with china threatening to close u. S. Consulates in response. To the fire now you have been protests out of the u. S. China relationship is smoldering as much as ever. Lets get more on this from james im joe lewis hes a Senior Vice President at the u. S. Think tank the center for strategic and International Studies hes also a director of the Technology PolicyProgram Joins us from washington welcome to g. W. It was kind of increasing tensions between the u. S. And china that includes trade wars namecalling and demands for bans on Tech Companies where just closing a consulate right. Its not unusual measures are in response to massive espionage its been done in the past but it really is the top of the charts so major move forward i think u. S. Do you do you believe there has been massive espionage. Oh without a doubt it started decades ago in fact it started as soon as china connected to the internet so theres strong strong evidence that china engages in espionage in a violation of u. S. National sovereignty and its for commercial and technological purposes the evidence is overwhelming not whether this was the right move is subject to debate but again weve seen that reagan did it in the cold war obama did it with the russians and the election interference so. At the top of the scale a major major move but not unprecedented so if this is been going on for decades why do this now. I think part of it is a chorus thats people suspect has something to do with the election which is that its always good to look tough. Against china now because no one likes china and the United States anymore its sad but its true its partially because of the. Effort so we the british others found the chinese trying to break in to our Research Labs to. Deal Vaccine Information i think that helped a lot this is been a longstanding campaign for the trumpet ministration but obviously it started in 2015 when obama attempted to negotiate an agreement with the chinese for them to stop commercial espionage he got an agreement but as soon as he left office the chinese stopped observing it and one who stood. I dont know i think it probably was not a center of espionage it would be unusual to say that it may have been considered expendable you know its not chicago its not new york its not washington so it sends the message i think that was the primary intent here to send a message to the chinese that the u. S. Will not tolerate this behavior and do we presume that this is a uniquely chinese problem all we the the west the british the americans whoever we at base as well that we indulging in. Intellectual property theft know so ive talked with the hand of germanys b. And b. And d. Ive talked with french british nordic intelligence officials none of them in gauging this kind of commercial a squeamishness kind of technological theft its uniquely chinese built their economy on it and thats part of why its such a big problem is that china needs to steal western technology in order to grow and so most western countries whether its japan or a stroke or germany or france in the u. K. They all share this problem with us and i just wonder about the presumption that they would be very good spies if you asked them are you stating stuff and they just said yes. That would be true but. What can i say perhaps i have a Good Relationship with them all and some of it too is that you know what Chinese Technology would you steal weve gone through this exercise of asking ourselves if we stole technology who would we get but to us the law and requires us and we still follow us law in this area it requires us to give it to all the companies that are involved its a major problem for us in that we simply arent structured nor is germany nor is any western country to engage in rampant economic espionage sure people might do a little on trade or they might do a little on finance and i am half but nobody steals this kind of industrial secret the way the chinese do and in part its not a 2 way street because there isnt that much Chinese Technology were stealing that sounds arrogant and i apologize thats the truth thank you for joining in so james im sure you know its from the center for strategic and International Studies. Thank you. Well lets stay in the United States in the city of portland which has same further clashes between protesters and federal offices sent by President Trump to and on t. V. He says and protests that but the feds methods and behavior including concealing their identities of spot criticism and complaints. Clashes between demonstrators and federal Law Enforcement officers in major American Cities are on. One side claims to fight against what it describes as Police Brutality the other to restore law and order situation has become increasingly politicized people say protesters these people are advocates these are people that hate our country. This is how the u. S. President explains sending in federal agents. We have federal officers on our streets further escalating tensions and causing harm to portlanders right now. The deployment of these federal officers who answer directly to the white house and operate in total anonymity valid name takes or other visual identification is highly controversial a larger police. To conceal their identity its just a step toward a secret what is america has always been proud of never having had a federal. Insurer or its force historically it is usually the republicans who want to limit the influence of the federal government but when it comes to protesters everything seems to be turned around these days the words and actions from President Trump and the department of Homeland Security and shown it this is an attack on our democracy. The escalation of tensions in chicago the scene trump unknowns he sending federal agents there also this is worse than afghanistan by far this is worse than anything anyones ever seen. All run by the same liberal democrats and you know what have biden got in that would be true for the country the whole country would go to hell with protests not expected to end anytime soon and President Trump fearing to capitalize. The division in the United States puts even further. Washington post reporter nick mirror off has been covering the base story and joins me on the line from the u. S. That capital welcome nic from the outside a President Trump appears to have a point youve got several u. S. Cities experiencing what appears to be violent disorder the local authorities seem unable to control. Thats true we have seen an increase in gun violence in chicago new york several other cities as well as this. Standoff in portland at times violent between protesters and federal agents protecting the federal courthouse but at the same time i think the president who is failing in the polls and facing a pandemic in an economic crisis is looking for a new Campaign Theme and he is seizing on this as something he thinks he can run on do you think thats what this is hes looking for and im a debate. I think that he is looking to change the headlines and and find some territory on which he thinks he can he can separate himself from biden and gain. An issue where he thinks he will end up looking better. And thats why you heard him in the white house on monday basically saying that the country will quote you know go to hell that biden is elected that hes the strong man who will restore law and order and that if the democrats win well see you know portland and every American City the president has also announced what he called a federal forces into chicago and other cities so this is nowhere near over. Thats right and one of the one of the interesting things to observe here has been that. You know Homeland Security officials who are responding in portland have been going going out of their way to decide that portland is a kind of unique situation in which they are protecting a federal courthouse that is the target of protesters whereas this expanded operation in chicago and other cities is very much about trying to tamp down the rise in gun violence and so even though they are trying to keep these things separate the president sees it as part of the same broader chaos and you know the push to defund the police that came out of the Racial Justice mobilization after joy george fords killing so. Federal offices where theyre being deployed from. Well in portland you have a federal courthouse that is typically protected by a very you know basically just security guards and they were quickly you know kind of outnumbered by protesters and so much Security Officials have sent in. Agents from tactical teams from the Border Patrol from. The you know gratian enforcement arm ice as well as u. S. Marshals from the department of justice who typically protect the Justice System so you have a good you know different federal agents there who are now engaging on a nightly basis with with these protesters you know who are who are surrounding the courthouse and you know lobbying objects at it in fireworks and that type of thing weve been looking at file pictures as youve been speaking and they do look quite scary and tell us about the wall of moms. Well you know one of the one of the things that is sort of the you know one thing that you see almost every protest when when. Ortiz kind of escalate with a show of force theres often a counter response and. With the increased federal deployment we saw more you know larger numbers of Peaceful Protesters coming out. Kind of to to protect others including this group of moms you know where yellow and lock arms and. You know are are there kind of on the front lines particularly earlier in the evening before the more rowdy stuff starts up and briefly these protests started offas the racism demonstrations are they still about that. Well thats a great question i think what weve seen is that you know that federal courthouse in portland which is which is you know always been kind of. A symbolic you know target for protesters and early on in the in the protest after George Floyds killing you know was kind of an amorphous symbol of injustice has now become kind of a proxy for the president himself and trumps you know view of american democracy and you know its really spun up into something much bigger and it really given the protests a very a very you know clear firm symbol of his administration right there in their city ok good talking to you thank you for joining us nick merrill from the Washington Post i think. A lot of european governments are facing the same problem what to do with their citizens including women and children who left to join the socalled Islamic State in syria and iraq many are now living in kurdish controlled refugee camps their status in limbo European Countries are reluctant to bring them home prefer them to face trial in the region but human Rights Groups say government should treat their citizens and deal with them domestically especially the most vulnerable the Biggest Group of french citizens including 400 women and children d. W. Correspondent lisa has been to meet and twine whos fighting to bring hes a daughter and a grandson back to france yes not to use his real name. And his ground the former trade unionist has defended workers rights. But when 5 years ago his 26 year old daughter suddenly left to join isis in iraq he had dropped bottom. It was my house came tumbling down on top of me. She had always been a good student and we didnt see this thing coming at all our family is ignore stake but she converted to islam without telling us what i told to do you know what youre getting yourself into and who these people are that youre joining. Last year his daughter was captured by the kurds and brought to the whole camp he kept in touch with her until she and her baby born in syria then his 5 weeks ago on one is today showing his face on camera for the 1st time he says he has nothing left to lose. I dont know exactly what she did but im not the judge she should be held accountable for her actions and she has the right to a fair trial like everyone else thats the difference between a democracy and a dictatorship were creating a 2nd going trying to move there and what about my grandson hes 18 months old hes responsible for nothing more. The french government has only repatriated about 30 children from the council and refuses to bring that women and men. Are proceeding according to International Law people should be judged in the country where they are alleged to have committed crimes we take back Young Children different when their mother agrees that we should take charge of them. But this lawyer representing the families of 40 women in the camps says that approach actually goes against International Law. So the kurdistan doesnt exist so there are no judges antis. People are being arbitrarily detained plus their crimes started in front of it i think they are accused of joining a terrorist organization could move on should be judged here and these children are in mortal danger 300 of them died as all whole and 29000 you talk about Living Conditions france has an obligation to protect them but its leaving them there to russia. France is not the only country reluctant to retouch freighted citizens who are left to join the socalled Islamic State about 1000 western europeans are still being held in syria and iraq only a few of them have been brought back. Together with other families on twan has gone to court to force the government to bring back his daughter and grandson he believes repatriation is actually in the governments own interests stonier continuing song during a recent attack on one camp the kurds just open the gates and some women escape to join i asked said leaving these people in the cabs is a lot more dangerous than bringing them back we always wonder if they managed to get away there is a real risk that they might commit more attacks here in france or you know hes determined not to lose hope so that one day he can finally meet his grandson. So how dangerous is it to repatriate these former jihad is and their supporters to stand trial on the face of hama it is from the terrorism an organized crime unit a University CollegeLondon Department of security in crime science is research has focused on the psychology of radicalization welcome to day w o u research is involved taking brain scans of radicalized jihadists what if you learned about the minds of people who leave to join the socalled Islamic State. Learned a couple of things i mean one thing weve learned is that people who are early stage of radicalization havent fully it after the ideology yet for them experiencing social exclusion which income in a variety of different forms online and offline pushes them further towards i but when it comes to repatriation of foreign fighters the more relevant finding us to do with the more highly better people that we scan these are people who are supporters of al qaeda associates what we found with them is when they were highly willing to fight knife for their beliefs part of their brain associated with deliberative reasoning and some of that reflection was deeply active and thats a problem because those functions of reflection and deliberative reasoning are necessary for to radicalization for persuasion for negotiation for any attempt to really alter someones behavior so the question becomes how do you reach activate those areas of the brain and you get someone to reflect and maybe reduce their willingness to engage in violence well their research showed that actually you dont need to change someones ideology you dont actually need to radicalize them although that is ideal and you would hope that eventually happens in the short run as long as you can get the Community Around to convince them that they dont support the right even this is the norm rather if friends and family members that can be sufficient to reactivate those areas of the brain and to reduce their willingness to engage its ok so much to figure out are there lets lets start with this idea of deliberately area associated with deliberative reasoning being switched off does that it does that effectively mean that once youve been radicalized youre not thinking about what youre doing youre just doing it. Well once youre really willing to act youre just kind of doing it once you high willingness to fight and die and the truth is people who are radicalize not all of their values have the same willingness to fight and die some values are of lower priority to those values and areas of the brain already active in the way begin to negotiate on those issues resign really need to know these people like case by case level to understand what values are particularly important for them in order to know what technique you need to employ in order to alter their behavior so heres the thing about that if that sounds like it requires quite intensive work so if you are talking about a government repopulating people having them stand trial and then presumably find them guilty and sending them to jail this does not sound like a pathway where governments will be willing to throw lots and lots of money at helping these individuals in that way yeah i mean it has to be a case by case situation if you really want to see a mantra change and we also have to face the fact that some people we just wont be able to deal radicalize and weve seen that in a lot of cases at the very least we may try to disengage them thats a more realistic goal which means basically their ideology has changed but theyre no longer willing to engage in violence or be the movement that they still believe in is usually because theyve now found an alternative pathway to purpose or other priorities in their life they have other communities they decide to have a family that does that things and they just disengage the truth is all over europe right now there are people who are disengaged who still believe in this ideology of White Nationalism and are doing nothing about it so it sounds like even if they are a project it tried sent to prison and then released we have no idea whats going on inside their heads and whether or not bethel a danger to the wider community. Theres things that we can do that with duce that risk that research are shown in terms of rehabilitation programs in terms of bringing the Community Together to provide an alternative Community Helping people find alternative pathways to purpose and even find incredible messengers who can help them rethink about some of their ideology as well as Mental Health services to deal with p. T. S. D. Or any other medical issues so there are things we can do to reduce that risk but under no circumstance of my saying that this is a guaranteed solution to make sure that we will never have a visitor in the fossil a thinker to talk to thank you for joining us in the face of a comment from the University College london my pleasure. Well they sound almost done but the conversation continues online you can join us on twitter either at the w. s where you can follow me to get to use the hash tag the day i was watching and have a good. Ok your distance. The coronavirus has changed almost every thing. How we live. How we spend our free time how we travel. How our company kind of retires and Creative Industries reacting to social distancing. In germany. Pushed. Into the conflict zone for the 1st time or lose rail with mounting demonstrations against the Prime Minister used of corruption and mishandling the Health Crisis my guess is week in jerusalem is news that the former mayor. This is the leading politician mr netanyahu so we could see all the wheels finally coming off the Prime Ministers wife. To 60 minutes. We know that this is a scary time for the coronavirus is changing the world changing. So please take care of yourself good systems wash your hands if you can stay and how we do w. Here for you we are working tirelessly to keep you informed on all of our platforms were all in this together and together were making. You safe everybody. Stay safe stay safe in previous instances. It was weird at 1st sitting in the park walking down the road switching sides to avoid people awkward scenes at supermarkets like a computer game one step forward one step back but who would have thought social distancing will go so far as affecting what we see on our t. V. Screens