Problems government pushed hard for a president ial election this month in the expectation that it would win but the opposition forced the last minute delay my guest this week from poland is dominic touchin speak polish i meet people from the ruling bore and Justice Party was his government guilty of trying to put politics ahead of peoples lives. Somebody touches me welcome to conflict zone. Thank you for having me lets go back to the beginning of this month when your party was still hoping to hold a president ial election donald tusk former Prime Minister of poland said that only a madman or a criminal would proceed with an election during an International Health crisis but you didnt care about the risk to people did you expected to win and that was all that mattered are you trying to say that donald told called people from germany of our europe and from switzerland and from south korea are mad people because these are the places where elections took place maybe hes calling americans a mad people as they are having day primaries now so we we resigned from this idea of elections at the moment but the language is yours and its unacceptable well you didnt exactly get the support of the National Electoral commission did you polands commissioner for human rights a price not surprised but you didnt get it the european part i know the organization for security and cooperation in europe they all told you to perspire on a little were ignored some 50 countries around the world have postponed during the pandemic. And thats what and thats this this is what we this is what we decided thats number one but the question is why i dont want to speak is asking for it or for a pause postponing elections because their candidate x. Candidate its already changed she sure is having a 5 percent of support when our president and our candidate at the moment is having 63 so im not surprised that they are running away they are just a political cowards and they trying to well escape from from disk up to ask for a fee which is just in front of them the fact is though you were prepared to take a risk right through march april and into may itself with the health of your people you were so desperate to win one to. Every politician who cares about his country every politician who is looking for a success is the spread to win yes we are desperate to win but we have not the spirit to hold the elections for any price thats why this is passed and weve changed our mind we are we are just observing the whole situation and thats why the elections did not take place so this is what the opposition was asking for isnt it it was a big risk because under your partys rule ponens Health Service is hardly the envy of the you is it but this but this but this elections did not took place so im surprised we are discussing the past and the facts were did not took place right up until the last moment you were prepared to take that gamble thats my point your Health Service luckily wasnt straying but its not in the best of states is it in poland. Well what we its not a gamble its constitution if the constitution is very clear about our responsibility for the country we have to we have to deal with the situation and this is this is what we this is what our government is doing no one was ready for this kind of pandemic i cant really remember from the history that this kind of bomb then as this chinese virus took place ever so this is unusual and we have to find ourselves and the situation and be responsible for the constitution for the country thats why 1st of all i were. Our terror was. Now that the elections probably will take place in beginning of july maybe you talked about the constitution but you tried in the last moments of april and may to hold a postal vote the constitution says changes can be made to the electoral law less than 6 months before an election can they so you are quite happy to ignore what the kelty to notice that. No not a constitution by the way the original court was very clear about the changes and its very clear where that where the one of the points that n. Fund then weak times is very clear in polish law the changes can be made just before the election this is world we found out i will government that was what was the deal would depend demick so so if there is a pandemic or a catastrophe would it wet or the rules can be changed we havent changed it even though even though its its allowed we you also had some warning shots fired at you by the Catholic Church that your party always claims to revere that the bishops warned about possible violations of the Constitutional Order and the need to preserve the principles of free and Fair Elections thats just about as close as the church comes to issuing a formal rebuke to a Ruling Political Party isnt it the funny thing is that what we are trying to talk about abortion which is killing the babies the church its criticized by many many in the media when church is taking a voice about the elections which is scott thats reviewed for the opposition then the the church as the one who should be mentioned. We are government we are catholics we hear all the voices and we listen to the people also for the bishops but its us our Prime Minister and our president who are making decisions when the bishops drew attention to the need for free and Fair Elections perhaps they were also referring to the huge sums of public money that your government dropped into the coffers of the state media which have more or less become your partys own p. R. Agency havent they but certainly concerned plenty of people. I have the best example of people from the public media i used to work at in media i used to be director and weve got 16 branches of National Television and paul and i was i was in charge of one of them and i was fired by the previous government just because i was conservative i was i wasnt i wasnt a member of any Political Party and they just sucked me just said they throw me away just 10 days after they took power so if youre asking about the p. R. Agency and a Political Tools in the media i am the living example of how the previous government was threatening people you wouldnt be happy if someone would treat you in this way believe me well lets stay with the present government because in january the president whos from your party signed a bill giving more than 500000000. 00 to fund radio and television outlets that have been giving him a hugely supportive coverage during his campaign for reelection how fair is that its not about president its not about one Political Party its about our mission i know what the mission is in the public media how many public state televisions is in germany weve got only one. And this is nothing unusual that the government is paying for for the public media thats how it was thats how it is and thats how its going to be in the fetter of the state media is supposed to be neutral and you gave them a blatant theyre not what it is about what it is actually because they were helping your campaign your election campaign. But the public pass public money is part of the public of the budget of the government and the public media our finances by the budget since day 1. 00 since 9090. 00 or even before that its nothing unusual nothing new and this is the money which is paid every single year i can see the confederacy and here thats our thats our duty as a government to pay for d for for the Public Services like health media or anything else so the public money is supposed to fund a public media that is doing your bidding and providing support for your view its not true what happened to the new child well its not us without borders Reporters Without Borders called polands public media stomaches propagandist mouthpieces propaganda mouthpieces that tolerated neither opposition nor neutrality from employees and fire those who refused to comply as i asked a striking resemblance to the oh its all asking me whats the number 8 i dont get it often is. All this all this organizations or International Organizations which are attacking poland hungary United States i mean mr trump they are using their position for their Political Goals and i know its just political i cant really see their reason to even comment these attacks on the hungry poland and mr trump mainly at the moment its just not true lets talk about the courts because Freedom House said you were trying to convert the judiciary into a client Political Tool but you dont like talking about that we we did it and we tried it youre trying to do it youre trying to the European Commission of law its right its not that it infringement procedure against your government for your latest attempt to put the judges on the part of your control has now we are having drunk driving judges we are having judges from their martial law. And we have many many of those which you dont have from the communist times because most of the countries was not suffer as as we did so we have to clean that up to be straight this is what we promised this is our government was elected and i dont see the reason we should resign from that and obviously whatever we would try to do there would attack us saying that this is political the solution but you have to remember that one day our party will lose the election and judges courts will stay so another party will be happy to have political courts its just not true well the latest move by the European Commission follows the passing of what the opposition calls your muscle law which can be used to fine or even sacked judges who question the governments legal reforms isnt it incredible you put your judges on the lead and you tell them when and when they can when they can speak and when they cant. The ok i am a member of the European Parliament can i be put in jail can i be charged yes i can i can lose my immunity i can and then the prosecutor can charge me with with whatever if im drunk driving or or stealing something do you know that drugs are just in poland up till now. Cannot be charged for whatever they do if they if they drunk driving stealing and weve got videos of of the of the judges who are stealing money in the shop he couldnt be charged do you think its ok when we are talking about the balance of powers 3 powers why they should be above law different above the politicians its just not right you want all those powers then to executive legislative judicial you want them all in your hands and the e. U. Commission says youre human or think a muscle is a western or if thats what you think they they say the e. U. Commission says the new law undermines the Judicial Independence of polish judges its not just their view its the Venice Commission n. G. O. S human Rights Groups the Parliamentary Assembly of the council of europe are they all wrong have they all misunderstood poland poor public yes they they are all wrong that thats correct yes thats what i think theyre not wrong mainly the split ical debate this is not about the rule of law this is not about the constitution this is about hungary and poland and mr trump this is what they do this is the standards well were just talking about the punish one of the marble standard its the outgoing president of your Supremes Court malgorzata gaz doff accused you of trying to accumulate excessive power she said for the last 5 years all the power has been in the hands of the ruling party who set the goal of destroying the independence of the court and she said it was the judges duty to muzzle something as dark as the person who was thinking it was thinking a part of the protests political protest of polish opposition they are not allowed to be active politically and that was political activity she was a she was marching on the streets of war so when a candle happy to support polish opposition that was against the polish law that was political activity well. Civic pride from and the rest is this ok is this right they think that thats how judges should be active do you she said it was the judges duty to speak out they took an oath to guard the lot of coal an hour do it every judge and i was there to clean up the past communist courts willing thats it to clean up yes i was going to say when they are active politically if they did if they disagree with but with the current government they try to call it a duty when we are doing what polish people expect this is. Not democracy unconstitutional of violation of the human rights this and that so they can call it duty when they are when they are active politically and we are and we are breaking the law is that right its just its just its just silly everyone knows this is about about their seats about politics about power and about money in the government white paper that you put out in 2018 giving the reasons for what you called reforms of the judiciary you did say the judges had never accounted for their communist past and those reasons simply were that reason simply wasnt true was it because 81 percent of members of the Supreme Court were replaced in 1990 under the last ration laws in 1942 judges and 21 family members of deceased what about 19 percent of those who left what about this night post companys judges who left who are still judging and there were vigil on the part of this as you well know they were individually all the cells that you said they did nothing about the cult is up im pointing out to you that they did. What im trying to say theres only one judge who can put change ale and if we have if we have those who are a part of this companys machine which was as you know communism was much worse than the fascists. Its just its just against our dignity as a nation they shouldnt be there not even one not 19 percent not 10 percent not one not even one shouldnt be in a court and were going to clean up the courts this is what we promised to the polish people and thats why our government was elected the truth is that the courts have just got in the way of what you wanted to do was in that in 2016 your party leader Jaroslav Kaczynski its not a spot its opinion now he said he said in 2016 changes to the Constitutional Court were necessary to ensure there were no legal blocks on Government Policies aimed at creating a fairer khan no legal blocks on government policy so basically you want to rule without any legal checks and balances whatsoever dont you and you shut up the judges if they criticize not no. No not on a blog you set it up look inside it and checks and balances as you call it its completely different we had it we had a cases when we tried to. Change the course and there were protesting against a lot 1 so its different where someone is locking up the doors of the public place like a court thats what we had and theres a difference when when someone is trying to discuss it debate it in a parliament its unacceptable we are we are Free Democratic country and no one can rule their country if its if its something not elected they want to be a politicians they are unelected but they want to rule the country before the us are testing because they dont trust your government thats why they were protesting ok so if if people do not trust our Government Watch my lead they want to bat whos going to when the next election president ial and parliamentary can you cd can you see the polls now and the support we are having from around the country i can bet that president build up will be reelected. This has been some of the other measures that your government has been taking not just against the courts but youve been doing a lot of social has done a lot and its not against courts its against past common its a communist judges its completely different not all judges not the courts be specific what sense are people in the rest of the world and then Forward Organization large respected organizations down by that line mr. As you well know you well polish part but by polish people not buying but supporting us this is why a lot of our government was elected 2nd time and is going to be elected 3rd time im 100 percent sure while there are 3 my most important is what people of people mention. What people post people are saying up organization mainly from soros i dont care about soros are care about polls lets look at the social engineering youve been trying trying to rollback l g b t rights in poland in a pretty direct assault last year not rights not right its not true again its not about as g. B. T. Rights everyone is equal in poland everyones free this is democratic country its about pushing promoting and using money for the organisations with their flags of the rainbow they are making money and they want to get into the schools and the children its not about rights they can they can do whatever i dont care how they sleep how they live they are free but when they are using public money and this is what is happening now in war so. Its just not right so when the progovernment newspaper guys thats a post distributed stickers to advertise l g p t free zones in poland youre quite happy with that level of discrimination as g. B. T. Ideology thats very important they said helgi. For a zone thats what the stickers which were distributed by guys sent a postcard actually said and these commission yeah then you have a variant of that kind of discrimination you didnt speak out about it did you so its not. Its not through its about ideology which is pushed by very very small group of the politicians who are trying to use see who are trying to say that we are racists to 70 and all this and all that weve been called names for so many years again i dont care and im trying to tell you and repeated everyone in poland is free town for a week at its a beautiful country safe country you can come and see we havent had even one terrorist attack because our policy of the illegal migration so this is what im trying to repeat it every single time poland is safe clean and beautiful come and see so for women in 2016 your party toy for the idea your party toyed with the idea of withdrawing from the council of Europe Convention on preventing and combating violence against women your reasons that the treaty endangered the family and promoted gender ideology how exactly this cracking down on violence against women endangered the family. It has nothing to do about it it has nothing to do about women it has nothing to do about violation its about the collaboration i was the member of the council of europe i was even are in charge of the polish delegation for the council of europe and i had a chance twice to discuss it its not about women its about this thing its about the d illegal migration and sharia law we had this discussion of issues with the legal community. And we were debating a sharia law in europe where no one is this guy saying European Values in saudi arabia or any other sharia law states so we are trying to keep europe keep poland great and christian well you know in 2017 your president simply instructed people not to implement the convention that was supposed to come back violence against women he said regarding National Laws on violence against women those laws already in place in poland are working and being in force that wasnt true was it thats simply not true the figures dont bear that out. The law is not working 1st of all if 1st of all do you have a date about the violence against women and men do you have a date or yes yes your police state of the 27 people that i did so we are going to 2000 cases of Family Violence in which women amounted to nearly 73 percent of the victims and men were the perpetrators in 92 percent of cases so how could your party possibly claim that laws were in place working to protect women they werent these are your figures your police when when i when i see what when we see what is going on in the model of in sweden when we see whats going on and large dont hear about well how are they going to end up homeless other off batteries when you see data from all displays around the European Union you can tell the war the this law works in poland how many dedicated shelters does poland have for women and children who survive Domestic Violence how many hundreds hundreds like everyone else in europe one shelter 126 bed shelter in the whole us not desert as its you are Roman Catholic or im a Roman Catholic i are Roman Catholic and i know how many shelters are organized by by church charge itself not not by the government its hundreds of these places and ive been there many times in many of them in 2016 the year after your party took power your own Supreme Audit Office called services for survivors of violence insufficient and highlighted the scarcity of shelters spaces for them that your own supremos ordered office are they wrong you do think its good that we are trying to improve the conditions do you think its good are you trying to improve the conditions theres no evidence that you are your defunding womens rights group or that all right and center who try to protect women you defunded half a dozen of them at least of course. Of course we are we are funding places which are hoping its not about show theres only but also sell call a g so call jesus and those who are helping to basically raise the kids its common sense and its obvious everyone knows that if there is anyone who needs help this help will give a good thanks very much for being on conflict zone. To go. To. Jail. You can enter the European Union city thats what the turkish government told the refugees before the coronavirus come to. The azimi family from afghanistan and many others took it out its one of. The stars of a painful journey that is still not over. Europe. In 30 minutes on t. W. In the height of climate change. For christmas or. Whats in store for people who. Want to go for their futures. E. W. Dot com can make a series the call to give insight click enter. I want to see whats going on the knowledge of the emergence of that you know what you have to do to fight it. The sharp microscope that have been fed the dollars it would come better and better and better over the years but meanwhile on the bad fall for example all of the fire would in fact come up about Molecular Depot and therefore it will also because of the fighting much more easily work speculate about whats going on in credit 50 i cant imagine that it would add to that the cause of got much better and then reduce the number of cancer cases there is still for good the belief of much more fulfilling life because maybe you see this shortcomings called the fate thing had to counteract that a large degree at people but they held for a longer period of 5. When the water rises cities will sink into the sea. Entire stretches of land to be. Abandoned. In the water has to. Be stopped its happening faster than anticipated. And massive are supposed to prevent flooding but they only delay the inevitable. How will we live in the future. 66 meters losing sea levels starts to slip d w. This is g w news live from berlin u. S. President donald trump takes aim at social media. Currently social media giants like twitter receive an unprecedented liability shield based on the theory that theyre a neutral platform which theyre not. Challenging Legal Protections for social Media Companies comes after twitter flagged his tweets