State for Foreign Affairs why are there still so many Unanswered Questions about the murder and why the massive crackdown on human rights activists inside saudi arabia. Welcome to conflict so nice to be here its around 16 months since agents of your state to murder Jamal Khashoggi in cold blood in your consulate in istanbul whats striking in retrospect is that 3 days later your crown Prince Mohammed told the turkish authorities to search the consulate and added we have nothing to hide it remarkable statement because in fact the last 16 months have been full of aspects of this case that you have it right from the start on going on hiding this is not the truth i dont believe so. We have said that this was a rogue operation that it was not authorized we have investigated the people who were part of this operation charges were leveled against 11 of them 5 of them were facing the Death Penalty the trial began in january the trial was attended by representatives of the permanent 5 countries and on the Security Council plus 3 people would like to talk id like to talk about the trial but but but straight away after the event theres just take that expensive offer from the crown prince to search your concert it was another 10 days before turkish investigators were actually allowed into the building why so long if you had nothing to hide i would the technical person but i understand that there are situations where countries have to agree on the mechanics and the modalities of how you want people to enter sovereign territory you have to agree on the equipment you have to agree on the scope and you have to agree no country would allow another country full access to a diplomatic facility that is doesnt happen the un special rapporteur this column or didnt see it that way she found credible evidence pointing to the crime scene as having been fairly even forensically clean these indicate she said the saudi investigation was not carried out in good faith and that it may amount to obstruct the thought of the that was kind of i did not have a mandate for this she relied on sources from the newspapers on leaks to the media she did not she didnt have any experts in forensics and other issues but its a safe assumption isnt it you clean up the crime scene immediately youre hiding something up a safe assumption the issue with agnes kind of virus you vote to have report based on do some fords and then she accused before even started look at her record when it comes to surgery before a number of years and how disparaging at her negative she has been a good subject well a lot of people are disparaging these days about saudi arabia because were human rights record and. I take exception with this so grevious made great progress in terms of human rights and repress could make great progress in terms of reform in terms of empowering women in terms of empowering youth in terms of society in terms of diversifying our economy in term. Of reducing our reliance on oil 30 a bit is moving very very quickly in a very positive direction under the guidance and direction of the camp and well come onto the details of that and i want to take you up on that but the list of Unanswered Questions about the murder itself is extensive and we still dont know what happened to the remains of mr kushner how is that possible when you allegedly have all the criminals involved behind bars how do you know how do you not know they have said that they had a local collaborator who disposed of the body. I dont know i mean didnt you interesting results i am not the Public Prosecutor we do Foreign Policy we dont look for him and best acacias you have console youre behind has let it be king of the state telling you what we did and what we did is what every other country did the United States said in iraq but he not everybody to us i am talking about the us committed outrageous crimes did the president authorize it and it was scrutinized as the commander saying where youre being scrutinized yes and what they did is they investigated they help people accountable they put in place mechanisms to prevent that from happening thats what governments who was this socalled cooperate so you know took away the body i dont want to remarry i dont know we dont have a history of murdering our citizens but if you are sorry as you claim to be over this incident why havent you found out this information is a matter of urgency untold was the question of his family because that would be a few momentary and gesture we have sent a number of legal documents to the turkish authorities asking for information and we have not received anything except one you havent told us either who you think masterminded this murder surely the trial must have shown up annoyance of that it was it was a mistake people exceeded their authorities and this happened the people who committed of agreed did not do it under the authority of the president or the Vice President or the secretary of defense the u. S. Government isnt buying your version of events is that the cia has let it be known in briefings that it has medium to high confidence that it was your crown prince mahmoud been someone who ordered the killing. We dont see it this way the president and the secretary of state have said this is not the case the largest Intelligence Agency in the world unmatched resources you tell me that talking nonsense i can only tell you what the us president who is the commander in chief of the u. S. Armed forces and what the structure of state have said publicly. But if it was nonsense how do you explain the phone conversation intercepted by u. S. By agencies in 2017 in which the crown prince told a top aide hed use a bullet all question he didnt stop his criticism i dont know anything about this and i cant comment about something that appears in newspapers based on the sources even if those Anonymous Sources are attributed to intelligence agencies the un acknowledges that its been an important step this trial towards accountability but says its failed to meet procedural and substantive standards so are being held by hold where you are and those who are in the us so those of the report from the from the special rapporteur the special muslim is biased special about or why because it is a little group with exceeded her authority the special up with or says the trial was secret how can a trial be secret when we have representatives from the 5 permanent members of the Security Council plus turkey al qaeda trial was held behind closed doors the identity of those charged has not been released nor the identity of those facing the Death Penalty why the decision of opening up a trial or not rests with the judge and if the judge does not want to have a courtroom that looks like a circuit its his prerogative to close the trial now the representative from the other countries who were there have access to all the proceedings and they know the names of the people why were they told not to speak about it because we want to make sure that when the trial is over and charges were leveled the punishment is announced and people can see it you cannot accuse somebody who turns out to be innocent and then in the end they lose face society shamsul and theyve been sentenced to death not all of them 50 theyre in a holding cell so still one of them have been investigated and i believe 10 or 11 have been charged 5 have been sentenced to death why cant we know their names you look at the jurors the verdict on them because the trial is not over theres going to be an appeal and there and it has to be reviewed by the Supreme Court this is how awkward systems work. Lets deal with the final explanation that you and others in. This government would have us believe that it was some other rogue operation this team of high level operatives some of whom had in the past travelled with the crown prince decided they just had to go and kill was the question of the day they went out on a limb like that i believe they want to talk to him and they want to convince him to come back to something went terribly wrong and an altercation happened and he was murdered they went with an autopsy expert who had a bomb so why would i dont know about that i dont know about everybody else and i dont know where those are but he says i dont know about that the idea with that is that this was authorized as ridiculous this was a rogue operation that happened that should part of happened were going to be paying a great price for it its a terrible tragedy and the issue is we deal with it from with little perspective jim other casualties family has come out and said we have confidence in the saudi judicial system there is a comedy thats most affected by this burst as a story in saudi arabia but but but but your but your agents didnt bother to hide what they did didnt bother to disguise their actions that or one of them according to transcripts of their bug conversation was heard talking into a telephone immediately after the murder saying tell you was the thing is done its done so who is he turns out this is not correct i dont believe the says correct i dont know this is this was from leaks i havent seen that the intercepts that the turks had but if turkey had all of this information why didnt they provided to Jamal Khashoggi before he went to the consulate if they believe this is the case if you are insisting that its a broker operation answer me one question why were the people who were involved that didnt sneak in by night and sneak out again they came in private jets diplomatic passports checking into they left a trail everywhere they left a trail everywhere so by monitoring him. Assuming they werent authorized to do it they were signing their own death was not what rogue thats what rogue operatives would do that thats why theyre facing a number of them are facing the Death Penalty and others are facing life and why why would they do that whats the motive for writing your own death sentence i dont know i think they went in to talk to him they went in to try to convince him to come back something went terribly wrong and he was killed and they are being on trial now and a number of them are facing the death of oakley is that they fully intended to kill him otherwise why do you take it all obviously youre having to assume why do you have to assume the worst when it comes to saudi arabia operations gone wrong this is a pretty how has been to how were going to use assuming the worst of your great worst abu ghraib was pretty bad and they got a lot of bad publicity for it but we got to weve got a long time before then were dealing with the devil putting people on trial and we will be punishing them one of the key questions that keeps returning is whether the crown prince created an environment which allowed his agents to behave in the way they did in istanbul or you would tell me thats not true wouldnt you of course not the compass is a driving force behind change and sadly because the driving force behind empowering women and men in saudi arabia youth hes the driving force behind economic opening and economic reform and of increasing repression against those who dare think and act in an independent fashion i disagree with that he said driving force behind entertainment and recreation in saudi arabia hes the driving force behind technology in investments in technology and surgery hes the driving force for setting up to be a leading country in the 21st century mr in march 27th in the u. S. Officials with access to classified intelligence reports told the New York Times that your crown prince had authorized a secret campaign to silence dissenters that included surveillance kidnapping. Tensional torture socalled Rapid Intervention team im not going to comment on news reports attributed to Anonymous Sources some came from saudi officials as well Anonymous Sources seems there was a Standing Order to saudi intelligence to bring dissidents phone animists sources i cannot comment on Anonymous Sources so about one of them who was brought home now off our shed a poet in 2018 he was on a trip to kuwait stopped at the airport forcibly returned to serbia arabia i dont have the details of this he was held incommunicado for 12 months no charge of anything i dont have the details on this case no saudi citizen is actually safe if they speak out against your government correct people come and see the king and his majesty the crown prince and his majesty communicate with them they tell them what they think they express criticism they provide ideas they provide suggestions this is what surgery b. Has been for centuries Amnesty International said last year the Saudi Arabian human rights defenders and independent voices male and female are behind bars serving lengthy sentences handed down by your Specialized Criminal Court most were prosecuted they said for their peaceful human rights work and calls for reforms ill take issue with other countries on a major path to reform and anybody who calls for reform is part of that process why would we have reforms and her debate here and that could such people who call for reform there are other issues that people have been charged with and have been sentenced with and i believe that the reports that we get another very accurate really and so when you do and if you have any issue with the terms of the legal issues you should really address them to the Public Prosecution last year they also quoted a saudi lawyer i g. Who has represented many defendants before your Specialized Criminal Court he said on the record the presumption of innocence is not part of the Saudi Arabian judicial system pledging words or that i disagree with as has. And the presumption is always innocent until Proven Guilty when he says the opposite he has defended many people before you i thought unlike the positions of some of the n. G. Host who assume that. Before without presuming that innocent we are guilty before the case was over so everybody has missed everybody who reports this massive crackdown or the massive crackdown on grip on the dissidents who people we have a Human Rights Group and the international Human Rights Groups that all wrong i will be very example i will write i will give you an example and you tell me but the supply in the 1990 s. We had radical preachers who were calling for jihad and. You just want to take us are not different direction you moved us from the story so allow me to finish i want to point out the fox in the 1990 s. We were criticized for having radical preachers in saudi arabia preaching hate. When we detained them we were criticized for taking away their freedom of speech its a damned if you do damned if you do situation if you dont situation do you want them to preach hate or do you want them to stop you cant have it both ways thats the park which is that perfect mr raja back in march last year 36 countries you know this issued a joint statement expressing particular concern about your use of Counter Terror legislation against individuals peacefully exercising their rights and freedom 36 countries germany france u. K. Spain italy australia and they also misjudge the situation in your country yet you seem to be badly misunderstood by some of the most expert biggest experts in the world yes they are really not about happen i dont think they know so little that they shouldnt be need to be more educated we have been fighting terrorists as scarce is it credible is it i mean you can sit here and say that but thats insulting to their intel he says have laws and there is a line between freedom of expression and incitement and murder and we have laws in our country we have a court system and people have to obey the laws and the courts and sundry but are the ones who do to keep these cases and nobody else was to push but to n. G. O. S and all the hidden by talk of stations and virtually every human rights activist is sitting in jail snottery. Why would they make it up do they make up things the songs really do nothing. What did they last may we are charged with detaining women for asking for the right to drive thats not true why would you detain somebody for asking for a rate that the king already gets why would you because jews do those as you did because thats not the childishness you do they may not be the judge but thats the vague word isnt it no thats the wrong perception they were involved with foreign governments trying to recruit people and sense their positions in court or to taint sensitive documents to be used by our enemies thats called espionage and the prosecution won the trials for over one percent the evidence you can call it what you libel you saying they were actually a threat to the saudis say it seems to be yes theyre doing that thats what the prosecution is saying i dont have access to the courts i can only go by what the entity in saudi arabia that strives with filing charges and thats charged with prosecuting people in terms of trials and thats their position and they have been public about it last month mr you address the European Parliament in brussels and you strongly objected to the scrutiny and criticism that has come your way from any peace if you object to that so much why sign up to International Agreements which involve other countries monitoring your compliance or do you just. Except it only when its in your favor to mean monitor compliance monitoring compliance with agreements youve saw and touches such as. Torture for instance we were youre supposed to have outlawed torture but there are millions of accusations that torture is practiced and they can bring the neurosis they can bring the charges to a court and so people the court would review wouldnt reinvestigated you tell the parliament stop criticizing our causes we are a sovereign nation that refuses to be pattern yes member of the United Nations there we scrutiny we do not criticize other countries Legal Systems and we will not allow other countries to criticize our legal system if you dont want that kind of attention then go abroad kidnapping your own people forcing them to go back to your country this is the legal system the Legal Process the boats not that they do when they promise to search humans only of a. B. Others not. Accept people criticizing our legal system we have not criticized the u. K. Or france or germany or sweden where you are perfectly at liberty to we dont because you want to live this is your system we have not criticized how people in europe treat minorities or immigrants we have not criticized europe or a traffic past when it came to massive crimes against humanity we dont do this. And we will not accept criticism of our legal system by others but if you go on doing these things how can you expect your expensive Charm Offensive to call on anything but deaf ears all the money you paid for p. R. Companies expensive B R Companies in washington d. C. Where you were ambassador falls on deaf ears doesnt it we dont have an expensive Charm Offensive we have Public RelationsCompanies Like other countries too and the amounts are not outrageous the amounts of normal we present our case to people and we have people coming to visit and we get with people in dialogue for that they can see what some of you have us about we have seen Foreign Investment and sundry beer go up we have seen foreign visitors up we have seen foreign entrepreneurs come to south korea but to set up shop but we are not buying your message im totally with you protecting human rights some telling you this is these are the facts. That there is unanimity among the human rights organizations around the world that you are in the middle of a massive repression of human who disagree with that you know you can decide what they think because their business we disagree with that our people our economy is doing well our country is attracting foreigners as something to do with you says if saudi arabia were so bad nobody would come why would Companies Invest go theyre always going to do business who always come i wish why you know that i would entrepreneurs come and set up shop and so because they can make money thats its nothing its nothing to do with you see when i disagree dizzy i see nothing i do and i think your mind is made up and you dont want to see the facts come to said you can see so you talk you told the parliament stop lecturing and start working with us we have a court system the court system is and by that we dont allow anyone to question just what you just what you said to me how do you suggest europe works with you when you slam the door in its face like that. Inbox and slumber start lecturing and start with years we will not accept lectures so lecture so that youre telling you the results a lecture based on you the results that their research is a lecture based on lack of information of the sound legal system and how it works its a lecture based on information that they obtained either through hearsay or through inaccurate sources Government Agencies which once 36 countries that expressed their concern to you i thought id give you the details then there were other a large number of countries that offered a resolution counter to the us and those 36 countries were absolutely wrong well absolutely mistaken how could they get it so wrong theyve been going to your country for years talking to your people for years it beggars belief that you can put up this smokescreen and expect that viewpoint going to believe it and coming to bear you can believe whatever you want but saudi hip is a country that is on a path of reform broadening our economy we are diversifying our economy from oil we are opening up new areas for investment were empowering nobody worries and balance the budget one of the great recover them to lutie we are creating opportunity for our young people 70 percent of salvias under the age of 7030 they have hopes dreams and ambitions and the governments objective is to provide them with the ability to realize that you give us you keeps you keep saying this my question is why should your work with a country that completely trashes its values and rights that are central to europes foundation because they believe that that assessment is wrong and then where would the starting point be i believe that that is wrong 60 years ago we didnt have schools for girls today 55 percent of women of College Students of them. 80 years ago Life Expectancy in surgery was 37 years old ok i also where where do you sleep its where you serve today its in the in the mid seventys at the level of you why do you start when in the view of major countries around the world new human rights organizations you have so little respect for the sick human right i dont i dont buy groceries dont mind i dont buy that assessment you spoke at the parliament you told them your view theyre not buying it but that just another bit of im not buying their view either major coaches are not buying their view either so when they start theres no starting point if they look at if you look at education if you look at health care if you look at clayton explain were not looking if you look human at all you can lose you dont lose all human rights if you look at media what people want is health care to them if theyre in jail for years without charges who have we have more than 20000000 saudis are they all in jail nobody said they were in jail youre telling me theyre all in jail how did i said human rights. Activists are in jail you see them and act as activists we dont does as hardly any of the we dont see that aspect any of them are not behind bars with all due respect im still to national we have a court system we have the Public Prosecution to pop charges against them the courts will adjudicate these cases and if they will listen to will be released and if they are guilty they were punished its a suppose that and with all due respect Amnesty International their opinion does they say that the trials are inherently unfair it doesnt matter because it informs Public Opinion and Public Opinion around the world as you know it was not exactly trusting what goes on in saudi arabia do you think people trust i disremember rights organisations who give Accurate Information about every country in the world or a state that has everything to lose if it admits to these human rights abuses i disagree with those with a limited were going to believe i think that we have great relations with them with a large number of countries we have the presidency of the g 20 would make a lot of Major Projects and said we were doing a lot of reforms and to a great deal were improving the standard of living of our people were becoming part of the global so what are you saying you dont care about what people think about your human rights see we dont have problem with human rights we have a legal system we have laws that people have to behave if they dont obey those laws they will be charges filed against them and they would have to face the courts very simple in the United Kingdom the same thing would happen if somebody violates the law what do you do do i come to you and tell you this person was engaged in human rights when they killed somebody or when they spied for somebody or when they were not talking and go you know is it going to youre not talking to you you would like to talk about you know about every country except saudi arabia its not true im giving an example because i believe you have not been fair in your views of such behavior and in the positions your minds use these are the views that are going to get in the extent in the questions that youve articulated. And i wanted to be able to show you that this is the most universal issue here when you have a law the last few pay it if you dont like the law change it ok but as long as its on the books you have to pay it thank you very much for being sure. Thanks. To. The book you are now going to keep forgetting that the length of their coverage for the q thank you exposing cant just keep. Global news that matters. To me from heinz. What secrets lie behind these walls. Discover new adventures in 360 degree. And explore fascinating World Heritage sites. D. W. World heritage 368 get kidnapped now. Now i am a flower. Yeah im beautiful ive heard it before and it never grows old. Im worshiped from my loves my scent my looks but heres the thing. Life starts with me. You see i feed. Every fruit comes from me. Everybody taito me every kernel of corn me everything grain of rice me me me me i know but its true. And sometimes i feed their souls. I am their words when they have none i say i love you without a sound. Im sorry without a voice. I inspired the greatest stuff that painters. Pattern makers ive been amused to them all. But in my experience people underestimate the power of a pretty little flowers. Because their life does start with me. And without me. This is. From berlin fighting for every life in one of germanys coronavirus hot spots no german state has been hit worse than a battery of medical workers soldier on through supply shortages and the risk of falling sick themselves also coming up. Could the pandemic prompt an end to the war in yemen saudi arabia calls a truce