And Vice President of the center for china and globalization how does he justify chinas catalogue of human rights abuses and the continuing pressure on hong kong. To conduct so thank you for having me china has always insisted that it will do anything to avoid chaos number of its own people in beijing 30 years ago to do that but its failed comprehensively to address the protest in hong kong why maintaining stability has always been a pillar for chinas Development Since 1970 s. But its failed to do it in. Different ever since 9097 this part of china that china. As practice the one country 2 systems so in hong kong the primary responsibility of maintaining law and order is resting on the shoulders of the whole caught he said our government and the chief executive carried the whole government thats approved by beijing absolutely hong kong is part of china and one of the one percent is doing beijings business not going into not doing it very well this is it its failed its failed to keep the hated extradition more didnt it was forced to withdraw that it tried threats calling the demonstrators rampant in the range them warning that a blow from the sort of law was waiting for them in the future. These threats have no effect well i think there are china not understand what its dealing with because i think there are many different ways to look at whats happening in hong kong i would say the primary situation right now is Law Enforcement we are talking about a restoration of law and order in hong kong and democracy of course when the british left hong kong in 1997 it did not believe behind a lot of democracy to talk about but the british did leave behind a deeply entrenched the rule of law traditional i think we all need to be very grateful for that and it is now law and order very much at stake in hong kong we should not be confused with ben the other grievances and political pursues in hong kong they are important and they need to be dealt with but law and order is the primary responsibility of the Hong Kong Government right now the think to go and look at the results of the local elections in the enormous blow to turn this prestige 22 years after the territory was handed over by britain the prodemocracy account tripled its vote from 2015 they won 17 out of 18 councils none of which they previously won allow me to make several points 1st of all the district election result speaks for itself however the District Councils in hong kong cannot operate without stability and evolve as prevailed none of the 18 District Councils cared release of the primary purpose they are set up for you are missing the point of my question perhaps intentionally i dont know but the point is that this was the largest probating party which was forced to declare defeat for this major defeat we said we do not want to find any excuses and reasons this was starring the chair of the largest probating party this is a big blow to chinas best pieces. No my reading is very different hong kong is a democracy and there is universal suffrage in hong kong for the people who call for the District Council elections therefore the fact that the Election Results are such speak loudly for the favor of hong kong has democratic rights people can volta whatever they want to do that speak for themselves because none of the persons are running for the described District Council had a in the courage to stand out for violence they stood for legal and lawful means of exercising their democratic rights i think that counts so so long as democracy democratic rights are exercised the peacefully and lawfully everyone is a winner no one is a loser what we need to the popes in hong kong is violets you that is the key you ignore the fact that chinas plan has been to chip away at hong kongs freedoms and democracy until they were all meaningless and then beijing could reassert full control in that thats been the plan hasnt it well a lot again with due respect i disagree why should beijing of the Central Government in hong kong take away any liberties or freedoms in hong kong but they did all they did mr y. Like the kidnapping of 5 homegrown booksellers is that and to turn up in Mainland China the crackdown on those who lead the 2014 process the highly controversial decision to allow mainland Chinese Police to operate in the west station all this is chipping away at the freedoms of hong kong to beijing imagine that people wouldnt notice this i think we need to really keep an eye on the big picture that is ever since the 1997 hong kong has managed to keep its relative independence judiciary independence for example political system there has been no change in search or if you talk about specific cases. We can go into details if you have more time lets deal with universal suffrage because thats been most controversial the refusal of the Hong Kong Government to move towards universal suffrage for the chief executive position as outlined in the basic law even after the Standing Committee of the National Peoples congress in beijing 2017 could see the start of universal service with this position the date came and went so the promise hasnt happened has it and perhaps beijing never intended for the promise should be fulfilled and i think we need to be clear as to what we are talking about universal suffrage no problem with that you already have universe of average for the District Council election in hong kong as we would you say doesnt. Get its meaning because its a very important that you dont have it for the chief executive despite the fact that its promised its in the basic law and then again allow me to measure who you are talking about universal suffrage or direct election of the chief exec exactly does the United Kingdom have to reelection for the Prime Minister not all were not were talking about whats in the basic move for hong kong because were not talking about what things are like in britain or in america or on mars you can play the what about game indefinitely im talking about hong kong what it said was in the basic law the ultimate aim is the selection of the chief executive by universal suffrage upon a nomination by a broadly representative nominating committee in accordance with democratic procedures and that didnt need these questions are everywhere for everyone to see the in a certain universal suffrage is not a problem direct election that the protesters are now demanding is a problem because why do you want to give something that neither the United States nor the dollar can and have had 400 years is what they see that they were promised mr gao. Right now as youve pointed out hong kong residence have freedom of the press freedom of the internet actually dependent coors multiparty elections even with with the District Councils this beijing seriously think that by 2047 these people i ever going to willingly give up those you knife incur the one country to system a profit come sir no end in 25. 00 plies only up to 2047 now remember when tench uphill worse still alive and he was the key architect for the one country to system he said for the wreckage of that if the one country to a sister will work out for the 1st 50 years why couldnt it be extended for another 50 years solve there is an uncertainty as to what will happen in hong kong after 2047th i would say everything will come to their end if for example violence continues in ill call however if stability Prosperity Development and the improvement other peoples Living Standards are the normal things all the way leading up to turn the 47 why couldnt the one country do system apply was no graham or years of hours give me you have to talk to the beijings leadership but this the if if things dont go to page ngs liking im im sure the not too pleased about the protests than the demands for freedom in the demands for china to live up to its promise is an its International Obligations do you think people are going to accept life in china crushing level of censorship what the Un High Commission for human rights recently called a context of increasing limitation on fundamental rights in china people in hong kong will ever accept allow me to mention one point you know putting hong kong in the overall magnitude of the scale of china or whatever bad things that have happened the home of the past 6 months things in china is is is at the best it can be called a storm in a teacup its not going to change meaningfully anything thats happening in peoples republic of china at all what beijing is are happy about and adamantly is a pollster to is the violence in hong kong lets be honest and straightforward with them no country either britain of the United States will tolerate the level of violence that has engulfed hong kong for the past 6 months no country and one or of those china step in and stop it what would the. Well lets speak philosophical about it if you read the basic law the primary responsibility of maintaining law and order rests with the Hong Kong Government yes only failure approved government yes its a mandated by the basic law my point is though that if china fully takes over control of whole gone in 2047 and i think so little of human rights as the un says it does do you really expect the people of hong kong to embrace the kind of life you have and challenge i mean the legal obligations and commitments the multiple laws decrees and policies in particular those concerning National Security and terrorism which the un says deeply erode the foundations for the viable social economic and Political Development of society you think after having the freedoms that they have in hong kong theyre going to accept. Kind of life from china lets be honest about it china is in firm control of the situation in hong kong as far as over india is concerned no one in the world can really 2nd this 2nd guess this point or really take hong kong away from china thats for the record thats not 2nd guess about that of course on the one country 2 Systems Hong Kong keeps its political system in hong kong the capital is the system but do you think anyone will realistically expect the hong kong can be misused as a stronghold against china no i that. Day oh all the way to 2047 go unanswered in the question of us which is where the beijing imagines hong kong would set the kind of restrictions that. People in the mainland after 2047 china has folders question to decide what kind of political system will prevail in hong kong what more no one full of hong kong gets in return for being subsumed into children or a chance to be spied on by what Human Rights Watch called one of the worlds most intrusive mass surveillance systems. Whatever happens will happen in hong kong after 2047 their finest records of arbitrary detention torture violations of right trial you really think the people of hong kong are said gosh i need some of that in my life and i really looking forward to that i think in todays world too we should be very objective and nonbiased about china lets look at how china is developing lets look at china lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty lets look at how hong kong has benefited a tremendously over the past 22 years after being part of the one country to system after china we exercised its sovereignty over holocausts to make it lets talk about says it was in the in an interview earlier in the year you called it unfortunate censorship in china you said hopefully eventually there will be less censorship leading towards no censorship of thought and i hope theyll be a day when people in china can freely watch foreign broadcasters thats pretty full on hope isnt it when you consider that 400000000 extra c. C. T. V. Cameras are going online and the unprecedented degree of intrusion by the state into peoples lives that were seeing things are not moving in the direction you hope for the what you call to it was my view earlier this year it is still my view today and i think it will remain in my view for the rest of my life but its a lesson on how business things are not going this way not less such a ship may be good however every society has its own says divisions do says about look at the United States this says a lot of things that the people here in britain do not care about in britain new says other things in israel theres a lot of you go youre talking about here there isnt a surprise lets just stay with china you admitted this you said the monitoring of social behavior of people in china does exist there are quite a few aspect. Of that which i personally do not like is the detention of around a 1000000 we are muslims engine junk one of the aspects that you dont personally like i visited many times of many wheedle friends islamic friends inch i didnt ask you that i deal with them as brothers and sisters i think to really ask responsible questions about we need to know the spread of terrorism and separatism and extremism. Hasnt been a terrorism issue in general for the last 4 years why because you were the government as it was locked up people without rights and without recourse and without any redress and with the ability to challenge their own incarceration i think thats a good way of doing things were talking about the detention and socalled Training Centers which were 1st denied and then finally admitted by beijing last year the un says people were sent there under the guise of counterterrorism and the extremism policies which youve just mentioned and amid extensive limitations on the exercise of fund the mental rights. Part of the. Make a point terrorism just did not come out of the vacuum terrorism is the result of a process and the process is very much dominated by indoctrination and extremism for example engine john there is no denying there is an increasing level of radicalization many families actually deny their kids the right to education which in china is considered as an offense or a crime no one in china has any right to deprive their kids mr gallagher oldest war is i believe one was expressing concerns about increasing practices of arbitrary detention in forced disappearance absence of judicial oversight and we strictures on the right to freedom of expression freedom of thought conscience and religion quite a list. Quite a list also the right to freedom of assembly and movement within what it calls an increasingly securitized environment this is a catalog of rights to which your government has formally signed up in bungling International Treaties and which it is now violating wholesale a number of asking you whether youre proud of all of that 2 points 1st of all the United Nations generally speaking is in line with what china has been doing over the past 4 decades or so its a reason aligned with the treatment as you well know more than 50 countries in the world support what the japanese government is doing engine jane dealing with terrorism extremism separatism so hardly beacons of human rights many of which are muslim countries lets lets be honest about many of these countries are islam and many of the inquirys states youre proud that the u. S. China as well minus say that all in the world no really youre proud that the u. N. Had to remind you that you have an obligation to respect and protect individual rights under the universal declaration absolutely human rights are a very important you know why do you think all i know you all of your International Obligations because youre violating them wholesale engine oil field put it in international cant as the United Nations keeps reminding the United States and many other developed countries of the rights that they failed to give to their people thats on a routine were not talking were not talking about the u. S. I know you want to a very did. You you cannot go have a single isolated weekend that we can absolutely talk about what china is doing in change in isolation is the one of the requests for information submitted to beijing last month by 12 u. N. Human rights rapporteurs was this please provide detailed information on the judicial oversight and control exercised by judges of a persons placed in riyadh facilities following charges under the counter terrorism. Law let me make a bet with you this request is never going to be answered by. This i hope with my help or with other peoples help you can do an interview joe i can help you to read some of these you know are saying my question its not because i feel a thing is not going or answer this because theres no judicial oversight over the 1000000 or so we get in detention most of the inmates have neither been charged with not convicted of any crime nor being given any chance to challenge their incarceration. And thats fair and youre happy with all that no i think you misquote the situation radicalization is a process at different stages of radicalization you need to come up with strategies to deal radicalize the population including for example what i am for sized for the red hot denying any family is misbehavior of depriving their kids the right to go to School Thanks to leaked documents and despite considerable attempts at secrecy by beijing we now have massive amounts of detail about what these institutions are doing including a leaked manual for officials running and operating these places one of the documents that was released describe detail controls on each individual the student should have a fixed bed position a fixed queue position a fixed classroom seat and fixed station during skills were strictly forbidden to be change you like this kind of repression you support this kind of oppression. You may call it repression or you may call it educational or Training School or teaching methods if you go to a cadet school for example if youre training for the u. K. Military you need to exercise alcohol as hard as a comparable mr gubb weve also seen beijings instruction to officials in these camps implement a view of the norms and discipline requirements for getting up rollcall washing going to the toilet organizing and housekeeping eating studying sleeping closing the door and so forth youre trying to build robots in japan know what you read about reminds most of people of a Training Camp over training that reminds people of the camps and the amount of people of concentration and what will serve china to concentrate people up to lets say in using only at number 1000000 or 2000000 this is not a concentration camp as far as based on my personal knowledge of my dealings with the wiggles brothers or sisters in this is not what you are describing are violent are cries from reality. Not not according to the evidence seen by the un and democratic governments around the world these camps lets call them concentration camps they violate all basic rights and freedoms belong to human beings under the universal declaration of human rights which you are supposed to abide by not i would say that china fight this war against terrorism let the british fight your war against spread terrorism and let stalled confused terrorism extremism and the separatism with what you would call human rights and democracy even if one accepted your pretense you have taken away every right that you have illegally incarcerated these people without trial and without any chance for them to challenge that incarceration that is illegal now i would say that doesnt need me. Your International Obligations i would say youre imposing your view of the rule of law onto china let china have its on the rule of law this is the rule of law all of fences at is as it fits we are not talking about britain were not talk here by your United States we are talking about a sovereign government with legal rights to deal with the threats of terrorism and extremism were talking about lies asia thats the key in china no one in china wants to be a victim of terrorism is the guy your lab you know that he was a should according to the doctors youre looking at people who harbor vague understandings negative attitudes or even feelings of resistance carry out education transformation to ensure that results achieved thats the instruction that beijing gives you look here people who harbor vague understanding as thats all theyve ever done wrong and for that you put them in one of these camps and throw away the key so you arent and you think thats ok and i think a lot of people including the un and human rights organizations believe that you have forfeited the right country so you are quoting something as if it is from the bible no this is not sacred things this may not be verified already using your standard of journalism i hope you will be realistic its an validated by considerably people then journalists i hope you will really verify this with journalistic standards are you telling me its not true i dont think this is true because what china is faced to with is terrorism radicalization and separatism and extremism thats the menace in china which is also faced by many other countries in the world look at the bombing here in lebanon look have the terrorist attack against innocent people you really want to have this kind of terrorist. Disease prevailing in your country or europe we have a common common task to do and you are united against terrorism and thats a challenge not faced by china long thats a challenge faced by mankind as a whole youre a lawyer mr yes youre even a lawyer whos licensed to practice in new york absolutely do you think being out of this kind of behavior by government is acceptable thats remarkable i think the libbers test is to put an end to terrorism thats to keep not why shouldnt. Draw and human rights wholesale thats what you say you want that surveillance but arent with the reality on the ground probably have no shame about these conditions protected human rights protecting human rights will always be the most important thing as promoting democracy but on the other hand fighting terrorism and extremism is equally important in china as well as eagle k. Or anywhere else in the world thats the bottom line we need to Work Together to fight against terrorism. But to go thanks for being. Wait a 2nd we want the whole picture facts instead of make i. D. s shift deliver us. From a reality to cryptocurrency your topics for live in an ever changing Digital World lets talk a bit to devise a shrimp. What keeps us in shape what makes us sick and how to stay healthy. My name is dr carlson the i talk to medical experts. Watch them at work. And they discuss what you can do to improve your health. Stay tuned and lets call try to stay. Good shape than 30 minutes double. An exclusive interview with imran khan dhaka stands Prime Minister speaks with the editor in chief in a school. Thats khans perspective on the kashmir crisis and the present what does he hope results from the peace negotiations in afghanistan. Why has he remained silent about the plight of the weaker is in china and what our interview with iran khan on january 20th starts at 730. 00 u. T. C. On d w. Every 2 seconds the person is forced to flee their home. The consequences have been disastrous our documentary series displaced depicts dramatic humanitarian crises around the world. Forget them we dont hate them and i didnt go to university to kill people. That way i mean i hate. People feel for their lives and their future so they seek refuge abroad but what will become of those who stay behind and simply up until my husband went to peru because of the crisis that i wanted if he hadnt gone there we would have died of hunger and i want to down. Just placed this week on g. W. This is news line from berlin fears that a deadly new virus could spread across china and abroad 2 people have died of pneumonia all break caused by that virus now countries across asia as well as the u. S. Are streaming travelers arriving from the affected area also coming up in libya protesters take to this