A very successful meeting so our question here on to the point is nato at 70 brain dead or fighting for it. Thanks so much for joining us here on the phone to the point here in the studio in berlin and im joined by 3 excellent journalists beginning with my daughter bella colleague in showers whos a french born Political Correspondent and in a money well says gloves off mark rolls brain dead comments on nato put diplomacy at risk also with us. From the russian desk here on c d w he believes that its nato is the perfect enemy for russia and if nato didnt exist then for domestic purposes the kremlin would have to think. And a very warm welcome super meltzer leaning hes an author and senior. Sort of the berlin based daily to target. And he argues that nato is still the Strongest Military alliance in the world the infighting at the london summit shows just how complex many security challenges have become. Matter i would like to begin with you head of the london gathering one u. K. Newspaper the Guardian Newspaper said the meeting had the potential to be and im quoting the Birthday Party from hell there were certainly fears that things could get very ugly so now that the dust has settled is nato more united or less united than before. I think it is more united than before because we saw some surprises strong commitment from the u. S. President on the trump to nato strongly rejecting all brain dead comments by the french president no pulling out from no obstruction from from any other participant that was feared about so their wealth in fights and struggles yes but i think the unity in the airlines has been strict they had to seize it its interesting that most of the german headlines and some of that i was looking out to said to the summit close there have been no parole no desire to know but stop it all sounds pretty paltry for an organization that as we say sees itself as the is the greatest military alliance in history youre right it is a defensive position saying there was no i mean split up of all these but but giving but giving the. Different kind of threats before using something from russia to china cyber war and all these things you name it it was not supposed to be a meeting its not even called a summit its called a meeting with no clear cut gender anyway so it was not supposed to solve these problems or get a unanimous position about new threats and things like this even though they found a final. Topic they agreed upon a matter of you are not to think they go to sleep. I am well im sure i think there was some sort of an agenda during that meeting there was a set of decisions that people had agreed upon before even the meeting that defense and foreign minister how degraded upon such an things that come was that they can ration that was made at the summit i think that was important for them to meet this occasion of that president is on a very sorry to reiterate and reassess. This alliance and while all that was going on there was a very interested what you might call role reversal between president s trump and chrome with mccrone lashing out senator of nato and donald trump saying that nato that hes a fan of the Nato Alliance and the nato has come a long way in the last 3 years what do you make of all that thats a bit so rich coming from trying to actively bluff someone over very sensitive comments i would say but as so french provided her. If not of that a french fry because i also dont necessarily agree with the way a minor micro actually addressed nato i think i get the point that he wants things to be shifting within the alliance and thats thats fair enough i think it needs some shifting but calling it a brand such a sensitive time where we having so many issues i think that its not necessary to right way to go and also it also goes on to show that he is resorting to strategic is that our president term strategy when he says that he has achieved a lot we are using this blunt language hes adopting terms tried to strike t. V. And actually when donald trump actually shook shook up nato last state it resulted in countries to actually put more money into their defense politics so maybe you need some kind of shaken up im just not sure thats not using the not using diplomacy to achieve so is a very wise given the current political situation globally. To be able to answer for through what are people in russia likely to have false altered suits of single with their emotional reaction be to seeing nato celebrating its 70th anniversary it was march talk about so the british and the russians the media if you look or work to Russian Media covering from what from london its very cynical comments about martha being busy itself about the chief of states president s and prime min. Gossipping involved each other so watch what i do what i did to get all this and all that there was the 1st topic and the 2nd one was not the linking monny the computed the beautiful russian erakat systems amid the new beautiful russian people systems so basically its quite cynical view of senior russian oh yes people in recession frightened of nato in the way that people in europe are frightened of russia not at all i mean russia is so proud on this on its military youre right today if this is new or russian film it brings in the russians soon you must involve another one by the law of the 2nd world war in russia you choose a huge production which is supporting the Russian National pride and the military history of getting a base north of think there is a russian being frightened and i think the russians know that nato is not a annexing and conquering an imperialistic power. So they know the difference between the on the no 100 the keris if you talk to the normal average people or most koreans and 1st broke i mean no one really cares not though its danger from rather is the instrument the instrument that is that what it is devoted to goals for conservation of society for the mystic issues but its not such fear in the broth population like in europe the bit was interesting nevertheless to hear. Him talking from sochi from the black sea resort talking about natures continued expansion as he puts it and then nevertheless saying that he hoped that a shared interest in Common Security would prevail is that must have a 1st step perhaps in a new direction some people are hoping that it is a dialogue a different kind of dialogue a different kind of conversation i think its very very difficult i mean michael writes the topic of new relationships with russia but im afraid it wont happen very soon there are just too many developments and still the annexation of the crimea in the war is still going on in east of ukraine we will have the normandy meeting on monday coming up in paris we will see if that leads to something but we have news being viewed as the last must test a possible new relations and yeah i mean you you know. Kind of one but given the reasons why we get progress on ukraine i hope kills me but given the recent scandal in berlin with the with the likelihood that the russians are involved explain in the receipt of the candle for all of us. A man was killed in berlin and tear garton supposedly and many indices point to that with the involvement of the Russian Secret Service the. Perpetrator was called but hes silent about it and 2 diplomats were expelled. In germany so there are huge huge tensions right now so how is not likely to impact the ukraine beating on monday this coming monday it will impact the meeting in terms of is this the right time to make a new kind of policy towards that to be approved and i think no german politician right now can say yes it is the right ok what do you want your american going to burst the myth what you know which and when knowles all of the think will journal it will go it will move and i hope and i hope the real business concrete steps the words discolorations in the Eastern Ukraine and i hope in the russian that kind of i dont know whats happened in paris next week but i guess yes ok deescalation is to crane yes things like that but no new i mean Strategic Partnership in any kind of theres not talks about news that theres a partnership there are its russia versus talked about country of distortions there normandy form out about minsk agreement with this collision in the Eastern Ukraine and i hope there will be concrete steps in this direction ok the debate about nato is goals and purpose goes back a long way right to the very beginning in fact but so far nobody has described the alliance is brain dead and theres little debating the fact that militarily nato is full to be reckoned with. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization flex its muscles in norway it was the biggest military exercise since the dissolution of the soviet union and result of directed at russia. Summit french president made it clear that he desired an end to the confrontation with moscow definition of a. Common enemy what are our common topics you question deserves clarification you see its a very strategic question sometimes a here is russia our enemy is it china is it the mission of the Transatlantic Alliance to designate them as enemies i dont believe so our common enemy within the alliance is the terrorism that has every one of our country secure. With the president mccrone had set the direction of the nato summit and. Partners especially in eastern europe. In addition he criticized more severely than any other. Unilateral american withdrawal from syria and the actions of nato partner turkey in the region has. Interesting question about a president in the future. Study. He certainly you know hes arguing that its all very good spending a lot of money on the military its a very good having boots on the ground and being efficient militarily but you need to have strategic goals and the central strategic goals which of saul was this is the question who is the enemy whats the answer here we saw a very different. Saying that we dont have enemies we need to actually negotiate with them and do not. Consider. So. 29 countries for nato and they all have diverging interests. Of defense most of them dont spend enough according to nato. Regulations on Defense Budgets so yes then there needs to be a new strategy there also needs to be an identifying of the actual threats we have new zones of conflicts that ought to be identified and current through the threat to the moment the threat is not necessarily one country or another the threat is a much more global desir for this meeting nato acknowledged that china was posing new opportunities but also new challenges with its rise and of course the situation i was russia at the moment poses a threat when it comes to dealing with elections but there will probably be able to say more about this than me and my conscious outlines the 5 that we need a new strategy for nato and thats what i was saying earlier by just saying that the organisation is brain dead is not going to bring things much further like the man who is the enemy what is if there are any means not the country what if theyre in a music Climate Change or global if theres no global power to not mention to the gathering in london as far as i can tell Climate Change water is the enemy kind of behind the scenes what if the enemy is operating on the level of a must media or for you can use of manipulation of the Public Opinion in the not on this i was rather a little like russia no one has the not the right answers to it is dangerous coming from not from the country not on the on the. Convenient to be with pence or with nothing time exist thanks to the old style isnt conveniently pence lets go back back in history a little bit i mean we had the bipolar world the cold war there was a clear cut enemy in the soviet union and its gone after the wall came down there was a term coined in the cold war called flexible response it was how to react and kind of war 2 words soviet union ships if you have a flexible response you need a flexible response today about new threats there is no single biggest threats but that doesnt mean that they are not multi polar threats. For example russia or china or cyber war or terrorism over threats from boise and that nato members dont necessarily all share the same values as they did for so long they dont necessarily share the values that are maps out in the preamble of the nato treaty yes but do they have to share the same values to confront the variety of firsts maybe not maybe they can confront a variety of threats with different kind of elegance i mean clearcut example is. The president of turkey who clearly has a different kind of values than the rest of nato before we continue id like to come back she wants to know mr atta and lets just go to a clip we have of the way the president. Addressed the meeting in london the agenda the very robust agenda he brought within that some people have dismissed as blackmail lets listen. To all of our friends at nato do not recognize as a terrorist organization those against whom we are carrying out our fight against terrorism then excuse me we will oppose any step that nato seeks to undertake. Single. Moms who were talking about shared values or values and dont necessarily share your newspaper photographer people writes turkey regularly behaves as if it couldnt care less about the shared values and interests that underpin the alliance yes but it still might be valued member of the alliance. Even though we have the disputes about the 400. 00 Defense System. Russian Defense System we have disputes about syria about about the cooperation with russia in that region about supporting islamists in syria and so on and so on and not to not to talk about everything that is inside 30 which gives reason for for a lot of wars so but it still is a very valuable member of the alliance in the south life every member of that of nato is valuable because they will have an equal say in the matter so theres no country that is left on the other and i think thats one of the things that make it to make nato valuable. People are worried about turkey because its now and some are saying turkey should not be a member of nato. Yes but it is and. You know it could be one of the yes it is fair and theres this meeting in london i think there was much to say about conflicts of interests and come face of posts not a tape estimated to clashing with so in my name i call talking with your son Justin Trudeau from canada and that gave a bit of the fading of a schoolyard and im not sure the world at the moment deserves that kind of much interest from us to be like to go back to the point you mentioned about the bust of not there because the whole soap of the problems or the holes then sure of the source of the injury shifted completely in the recent debates because its and is not a big jerk you became the member of the not the danger was completely different than no no its the middle east is the 4th sport of the World Politics and so your place would be completely different role in the us and this is what we are talking about the whole world is changing so greek and so far so fast that the need to react or not the new story arc very grieved for this and the christian is not able to react the greek you would interest us like i could remind you about the there is the 303030 initiative i think is very valuable and exploitive a little bit it means we have nato has to be able to 40 days to have 30 battalions 30 ships. In every corner on the earth so if they if they work on this initiatives i think its very well valuable and it might come from a lot of threats theyre facing. But i think were also facing new threats for example the cyberspace nature has to become to foment infighting that theres a sign your place of conflict that is actually actual space and it also has to develop. In dr god i think the threats have diversified and if nato wants to survive it actually has to find a way to address those and talk to you frank. Make state up to facebook groups from centers where a person provoke profile break and to push ideas via facebook to the American Public and keep fighting through this facebook groups American Public one part of the American Public to get it against another part of American Public but can ship some tanks the war against innocents of this vigorously. But still just for a 2nd because i would like to and i want to hear what emanuel has to say about one point we havent touched so far theres a lot of tension in nato ranks about money a significant number of nato members according to donald trump a free loading including germany. Were looking for work 43 percent of the largest g. D. P. Ever got the feeling we have right now and over describe for us you know the people what they want to present some people very less than one percent of a very small few not here. To get there we are. Not here. In underwear with your french background do you understand germanys reluctance to meet spending targets but it has a history as well because of old wood to germany was reluctant for a long time to a low military spending at all and decide of history is very. Very present in every decision made in regarding to results of what you are saying is that there are french troops on the Ground Fighting all kind of fighting that was my 2nd saw and rejoin the documentaries would be a good start was my 2nd that was my 2nd point actually so germany spends way less on friends in its defense and france is actually paying the price of blogs in africa you know to protect the rest of europe that is a fact and indeed that is problematic it is also problematic in the partnership between france and germany because they agreed no later than you know tobar they did agree to spend less on a coordinating coordinated Defense System but germany to German Parliament east. Is waiting spending too much time discussing the budgets rather than putting the money where it should be and that actually hinders the french german relationship as well so to me whats your response to this streak of pacifism that still is very central politics military politics in life if i talk to morris in france is think business because work in moscow if i tell them what german media are writing covering about the condition of the boom the surveyor. No one believes me there is always a very dangerous book bundesrat troops a soldiers into the field without for without weaponry for is a Little Service here so little submarines basically nothing on a major role for a People Living in russia for a country like germany having this kind of army. I can hear you trying to get it. But as i say germany should spend more they should spend more of necessary on hardware even though i think the army has to be modernized very very much but they should spend more on Cyber Defense this is one of the huge topics. Nato countries have to face as a Security Threat and to develop and build up the need the needed skills for Cyber Defense is something that is really really important and i think you might even get a majority of germans committed to that not necessary to defend spending the traditional way with one more point to to present us president trumps claim i mean you still have to see the United States spends like 5 trillion dollars from 911 to now on the war on terror all over the world so the huge Defense Budget of the United States goes to many places in the world not just to European Defense is that iran or in rich no one in our survey it understands the role of germany with high Speed Internet connection if you talk about Cyber Attacks and cyber the fence no one really can imagine of the country where german occur have such a birth quota over internet. But there will always be a discrepancy between the American Army and the german or European Army in the making for example because we simply didnt do not share the same vision of. The well. I think you say it i mean germany because of history it will never be a country which will want to make fun which they want to interview. With its on me but at least it should have a functioning army and a fog that regularly america cannot fly somewhere because if the plane would take off or Something Like that that goes on to show its a crying shame. Yes it is a crying shame and it is not just michael its the president as well its the foreign minister and many other because i just. And i think this is for a country like i agree with quite a lot of this i think not just bostons a lot about this but the rest of the world is doing that as well so thats pressure to the russians and the chinese who are developing a terrestrial. And iroh flirts but if we come to the chinese i mean china was mentioned at. A little time. And so there you overlap in new threats in cyber war with. Traditional threats and its called why the front that makes up the 5 g. System in the. Engine. The most successful military alliance in history. The fact. Thank you very very much for joining us here on to the point today bring to. 70000 the question weve been addressing. It up come a. Little my tragedy was one of the biggest pharmaceutical scandals in history when she was born in this just deadly silence finally i said to the problem. And now im saying its. The drug philip in my is still used today even though it cost more than 10000. 00 children to be born with birth defects its a nightmare without in. 15 minutes long d. W. And now be affectionately but as affectionately as you can. Point to an a in the middle of his. Campaign. 2000 a documentary was filmed for russian television. To turn the camera back on of course the film secretly chronicled a power grab actually everything was precisely played instruction. Featuring a top supporting role. To the freedom of russia. And featuring a lead role like youve never seen before. But im here for that amir of it to the ends justify the means. To jims witnesses starts december 13th on d w. I subscribe to do you know where your books are something more in the world but we may be captive for. Me books. Im not laughing at the germans because sometimes i am but they said nothing with attempted to have any think deep into jamma culture. Knew to take this gram a day ill delete because its all that who they know im right so join me for me to get. Up. Christmas time on double. Play. This is the news live from berlin u. S. President trump says the democrats have no impeachment case against him and was then called demeaning the country these comments come off the most powerful government in washington since the time has come to begin drafting articles of impeachment against russia also on the program. French Public Sector workers stage one of the Biggest National strikes for decades protest against proposed Pension Reforms caused huge disruption and some of them turned violent. Plus the pacific