Promises about more democracy and greater openness. And welcomed coverage of thats the major europeans were told that the elections this year there be more democracy more transparency didnt work out that way did it what no i dont agree i think 2 out of 1000000 people that have been participating in election is a very positive result the top jobs were carved up in a kind of backroom stitch up that people were told wasnt going to happen again. And it did it did despite all these promises why you let the voters than not i mean 1st of all why do you speak about the backroom deal i mean it was so transparent. And all the process in the names in the game i think it was very very true not according to the Outgoing Commission president he called it not very transparent quite an indictment from the junk that wasnt its true but i dont have to agree with him on this point i think its not the best process but its the process at this is in the treaties so it might be true that in the follow up to the election they have been some misunderstandings and also in the process to the election but the treaty process has been kept and therefore there is no back door the door whatever i think it has been quite transparent but i think we can improve but you know the u. K. Has no written constitution and everyone knows what the constitution is the European Union has a treaty and we have to stick to the treaty so i think if we want a change in the u. K. For comparison here but one of the basic criteria set themselves leaders set themselves was regional balance and all 4 of the top e. U. Jobs went to people from western europe france and germany shared the 2 most important Jobs Commission and the. Why because europe still its like that europe still works best if france and germany find a very strong common commitment and i think the prove is that what you have described what everything there is on cronyism in germany which is going to take. The strongest countries very democratic thats not the thats not the whole story i think there is part of the story its a major part of the story yes part of the story is that france and germany have been a barry have been having a very strong commitment together which is implemented in these 2 positions but as well there was a very strong commitment of the Eastern States that wanted to to bear another candidate they had a rather destructive approach to the process and there are successful because mr timmons is not the Commission President now you may like of this like it but they had their say as well and the distribution of. The other posts has been done on a made female basis on other considerations but i think the east has this time not had a constructive approach to the setting of the people and thats the reason why they are not there in germany the 2 ruling parties slumped to their worst National Election results the 2nd world war and then france was your macros party was beaten into 2nd place by marion le pen and yet they still decided on the job again no reflection on the votes that were actually cast by the europeans them selves nothing for the greens who did spectacularly well nothing for the far right euro skeptics who did better than they had done before and thats democracy for you now democracy is about majorities you know in democracy it doesnt help you if you are right you have to get majorities and the majorities are in a certain way implemented with dead people so what is the negative side of the did you were speaking about the greens how can it happen that no government wants to propose a green commissioner its up to the governments to propose commissioners and therefore we have to see as to whether there are governments that would like to do so now in future at the moment looks rather awkward and the far right is definitely a movement that in some countries has had a lot of support but not the support needed to find a majority thats the way this in a democracy isnt it you told a newspaper the british that everyone was satisfied with the deal so in this council i said in the in the council but in the political groupings they werent satisfied at all particularly in your grouping the European Peoples Party the spokesman gonzales points attack the way the appointments were made im not going to congratulate the council he said he doesnt have the right to ignore all the candidates that have been voted for by european citizens this is not democracy major view from major party same with the leader of the 2nd Largest Group the center left socialist same with the leader of the liberal review europe set up by himself. Nobody else was the leaders may have satisfied themselves with their late night sessions but. I mean there is one point where i would not agree with its still very clearly democracy at the fight in him ocracy is between counsel in this term and the parliament in the parliament was not Strong Enough to go for a real fight and to end it with the council and thats the truth but its democracy and its the light of the treaties that has been followed so i think that im ok with it and the complaints you dismiss. It doesnt help crying crocodile tears we have a fundamental problem in the you to which no satisfactory answer has yet been found there is actually a perfectly satisfactory answer thats to listen to the voters yeah but the voters if you will listen really to them in the not going to do in a lot of Member States they havent been that perfectly at ease with the kind of doubt and process but nonetheless i still believe and most of my colleagues in the parliament believe that the some kind of doubt and poses the most easy tool the easiest tool to reach more democracy without changing the treaties so the question for us will be next time and we are all together also with our with our men for be able to lead singer of its candidates manfred did an excellent job and we have to get out there next time we want to improve this but we have to take the momentum next time to be more intelligent also against the council to win this battle which in a normal democracy is something that you have also to face and to wait for the right moment to change a process that has been different in the past year because the voters are satisfied the way when this time you know the voters are they are very disappointed very disappointed and it was supposed to be about them you were seeing the turnout go down every single election since the European Elections started and this was the big push to rope more people in because they were going to be listened to and they werent. Yes i mean the call its a this is a big failure whichever way you like to spin it but it is a big i mean the participation in democracy Representative Democracy is what im talking about but the participation in the European Elections has been raised also because of the better understanding of the citizens about the need of the because the expectation they might actually be listened to thats why they voted i thought i told you i was going to be different i mean i mean we have to separate one from the other i think there is on the one side a clear effect that People Better understand the need of the European Union and for bad reasons they went to vote but there is on the other side as well especially in some countries like the netherlands germany and austria a strong support for that idea of that and a more democratic European Union but that process hasnt stopped we want to continue this and next time we will do better to win that battle that we have with the council that this time was strong in your native germany a poll by the broadcaster showed that more than half the people 56 percent dont agree at all with the appointment of those 11 the lion as the new Commission President another poll for those people found that she was the 2nd most unpopular minister in germany so dont listen to the people. Now but europe is not only about germany its true that we see the us who we are very sad that mr weaver hasnt got the chance to be the Commission President and we are also disappointed how the councilors play that out but the statistics that you are showing are from germany and germany is not the whole of europe and in europe as a whole the result would be a little bit different so we have to make sure that we convince all our neighbors about that process including france and we have to be next time more intelligent as a parliament to play out that process better after you say its not all about germany but you actually blamed the germany social democrats for the untransparent horse trading that took place you said that by not supporting the original candidate from the European Peoples Party manfred vega theyd open the door for the council not consider any of the other socalled lead candidates but thats a pretty cheap political. Point isnt it the idea that the council of europe took its lead from the attitude of germanys s. P. D. Is ludicrous isnt it no i try to be very very honest and very clear about it it was obvious from the very 1st moment that on monday after the election the council wanted to make the 1st meeting to overturn in a certain way the parliaments bill this wasnt that easy as some in the council have sought but it was many i miss your macro and others and there are going to accept and others not only him so not only s. P. D. And others but issues in the parliament and that was the point i was referring to in that interview that you are citing if very Strong Enough in the parliament to say at the very 1st moment that the lead candidate from the group who has the most votes will be our lead candidate also for the council we could have won and you cant unity has been missed when the candidates you didnt end up choosing had any glittering qualifications that you were asked in the newspaper interview what the lion stood for and you replied for more security shes promoted deepening e. U. Military cooperation she stands for a deeper cooperation of europeans in all fields of politics humid to point out that she leaves her job with her reputation in tatters because of her failure to maintain germanys armed forces at an active Service Level but kim you know that you glossed over that this move back no but i mean that was not a question the question was about europe and not about germany in germany is since shes never stood she arrives as damaged goods i wouldnt say she does have a larger intermodulation she did a marvelous job and she was presenting herself and we hope that she will lead the European Commission in the next 5 years in a very very good way we have no doubt about it it was an innocent she did a lousy job was being defense minister of germany fellas minister of germany is a very difficult challenge all the time in the last lifes hard life how the 2nd she didnt find it now measure up to it shes still under investigation every 7 years of a childs and its true there is an issue of 150000000. 00 euros for which only 2000000. 00 euros are actually put out there is an investigation and we have to wait what the outcome will be but as far there is no outcome we cannot judge on this so shes tainted essentially shes already turned it what is the investigation finds against that youve got a Commission President whos. Ok knowledged as a failure there but people in building tell me that they know quite well the situation there has been a mistake in public procurement of a certain level but this was not a certain level that she has personally decided about so they will find that there was a mistake but not related to her and therefore i am not having that reflection that you have that we will find have to find a new president in the next weeks i think that the decision we did was the right decision now because youre a pest on many problems we have to face them we shouldnt talk for long about the process and complain we should now take the next challenge and for the next election you have to make sure that we do it better from the lions record is positively stellar that of years. I mean the spanish for a minister there to confirm the Foreign Policy chief a man who was fined last year 30000 euros for Insider Trading of Company Shares in 2050 but is this really the best you could get. I mean in a package deal came you know that there is a package and there is a deal and there is not something that you can choose like this and like that oh please among 27 countries you couldnt find somebody who hadnt been convicted of any Insider Trading does not matter does not parking tickets but late to me have been voting about also from the brain as a present of the European Commission and now all the commissioners also mr blackwell who will be probably the high representative they will have to go to a hearing in the parliament if you will grill them we will ask them all the questions we have and if they are not up for the top they will not find a majority so wait for the parliament to do its job i think we will check that very well what these people that are presented to us has have as a happy youre happy about his nomination that you know about every nomination line but the parliament will check these player standards so low that a man who was fined 30000 euros for Insider Trading is the best person Europe Europe can put forward for its top diplomat really i think tell me what tell me that should tell me and show him i mean youre asking in one direction i have to of course im not saying one directions i have to sell your point has been the president of European Parliament here is an outstanding experience in that area and the fact that youre referring to we will also ask about questions in the hearing of the parliament and you can be sure that you will want to know everything and if you are not satisfied he will not find a majority in that hearing thats very easy the Foreign Affairs committee will grill him on this you in the c. D. U. You sit in the European Peoples Party. You talk about human rights talk about Civil Liberties but your party has repeatedly failed to take action against hunger is Ruling Party Member of the p. P. Despite clear indications that it was violating both the letter and principle of its obligations regarding the rule of law you get a slap on the wrist you suspended it not that it normally have been but team b. You know that we have been speaking very clearly with mr our man that we have in a certain number of areas not been. Satisfied with his approach to the rule of law we have all you did was to suspend but you still get the seats but this was the main thing for the peoples need to keep seats in the european family so they keep their power over the appointments and i think that bono the majority was not depending on the few days but i have to come back to the point we have not only suspended him be also set up a real Controlling Institution under the heading of mr fein or a former president of the council to check together with hungary what they can improve for the rule of law and how they stick to their principles and if this process is running bad they will be excluded so you just pass it from one committee to another how much more evidence do you need look at the charges against repeated allegations from respected human Rights Groups in the un about the serious and continue erosion of basic rights and hunger is government 2 years ago un special rapporteur warned that legal reforms in the country would lead to limitations on fundamental human rights including freedom of expression information religion privacy family life and the rights of minorities and that is not enough for you to do the decent thing which is to kick them out your party is doubtless isnt about him the problem in europe is if you kick someone out he or she will still be in the European Union and that you have to talk to them so the approach we have taken as a people was to say listen there are problems we have to face them but we have to discuss about these problems in detail and we dont have to kick out anyone because they will remain a member of the European Union so it doesnt help us if you are too strong a member of the European Union will have to remain a member of the European Peoples Party as i told you before you dont have principles do you but we set up that process that we suspended their membership and that we had under the control of how much time on per controlling into tuition that is now in talks with a hunger in government to check as to whether they can do better and if they dont they could be excluded from the preferred warnings going back years now what do you mean do yes what does it take. For you to actually do the right thing then throw them out what does it take when they have to do a decision to cross youre ready p. P. Well there it is they dont want to make a decision theyve delayed delayed and delayed but the challenge we are ahead of is the following we have been seeing also going to nation process for the president of the European Commission that the Eastern States are rather again regrouped by National Ideas then by european ideas and thats a problem because if you are kicked them out they will not be more european they will not be more sticking to these principles that we want to defend so we have to talk to them why we believe that this principle are essential and we have to convince them that if you do it together its better for all of us thats a burden some process and sometimes if you are trying to do this for years tell me mr what is actually more important than preserving the basic rights of european Citizens Rights that have been continually threatened by the feeders government over and over again what is more important to you than that the rights of the citizens are the cornerstone of the European Union then when you have a very badly to protect them in hungary and chew with the but it is not responsible for the situation in hungary we have to deal with hungary and government as a European Union as the European Parliament and we within the p. P. P. Have to deal with a few this party but these are 2 different areas we in the e. P. P. V. Made a barricade decision in front of the election that we want to suspend their membership but we said we want to stay in touch because the problems have to be fixed they cannot be trust you can stand to not pick up the phone you dont have to have them in the middle of your party but then you have another then you have another discussion if you have them out of the party then its a rather procedural and then you lose their seat would you really want to do that we havent decided about the majority you know that exactly that the majority has been built differently so thats not the point to discuss about now no wonder no wonder people in europe are dissatisfied with the way business is conducted here pew survey in march showed that europeans view brussels as inefficient and out of touch an average of over 60 percent said the e. U. Does not understand the need. Of its citizens clearly dont seem to prioritize human rights and fundamental rights over your procedures and but as you put it talking of apparently nearly violates the frankly speaking the problem of these statistics is that if you ask people where their wealth is coming from they wont say that its part of the European Union idea of open markets and the basic freedoms in the European Union the problem is that that is a fair point the European Union has a difficulty to communicate what we are all about and we are all about cooperation even in fields of difficulty and dystrophin we should not try to fix by thorough now at the expense of principle not at all fixing the principle by talking to each others talking to each other and explaining why youre going to be out there mr your party at home the c. D. U. Has plenty of soul searching to do at the moment historic losses in the European Elections down more than 6 points from 5 years ago and the party looks as will face a further drubbing in Regional Elections later this year weve got saxony brandenburg coming up why has one had the c. D. U. So visibly lost the trust of voters particularly young voters. The 1st point is that our result in the European Election was much better than a lot of people have expected but its true that we have to fix that his challenge better than expected it was if you were part of the sea it was you know you can spin this anywhere you like but thats you really clutching at straws trying to the point is that stability as the c. P. U. Is it at the moment working on together with the s. P. D. In a big is a very burdensome concept which is not easy to be explained to the public in difficult times and we had quite difficult to massively last among the only voters and the great crime karrenbauer has enmity and the point with the young voters there are 2 issues where we have to work harder and this is the Climate Change and this is copyright and it was obvious that these processes both before the European Elections havent been something that young people felt close to the c. D. U. But you have understood the message and we will work hard on it to improve it your problem is that youre barely split also about what to do about the far right party and you not be are not split about that its you have a whole process you have a centrist can you have the hard conservatives all the time i think that a union the union of values but i mean these are few people you have people suggesting that you actually at some point break the ban and go into coalition the d. A. S. D. But this is in this is in one land in the east of germany where some people are saying this but the clear position of the south would open the floodgates the clear position of this if you would german right and we have even a Party Congress as resolutions on this is that we dont Work Together with far right people and there was no discussion of this if you about that in principle not at all and therefore this is not a point that you should really be concerned about there is no discussion about that what should be concerned about is 14 years of cd which has seen a huge surge in rightwing radicalism on the streets of germany in social media and legislatures around the country as well as according to Domestic Intelligence 12700 right. When extremist capable of violence on your street thats something to be concerned about in germany these days isnt it yes but for this we have federal institutions that go behind these people and the point is and it was already wasnt great is the 1st part of your question was that why the situation in germany is at the moment politically as it is and its very clearly that grand coalitions have all the time had it in the middle of their times difficult public. Because you know i just i of the ball of security thats the key question we have thats the key question and the point that you are referring to with security its an issue where on the right wing not only in germany and you know that very well populism is rising and thats a challenge we have really to have a very close eye on but we have in the German Federal republic institutions that go behind these people and have no doubt that they will do their job even though there were some concerns in the last years there were more than concerns when the Parliamentary Committee reported that major mistakes had been made by the authorities is that supposed to give people confidence whats whats happened since those major mistakes im talking about the National Socialist underground which murdered 10 people most of them immigrants documents went missing evidence was destroyed should that give people confidence no i think what should people confidence is the fact that this has been very transparently discussed in a Parliamentary Committee as you have been saying also the institutions have done their changes that we are needed to this and these institutions have to task to fight radicalism on the right and on the left and i have no doubt especially after the experiences they went through that they will do that with all the power they have and thats what politicians and the society asks them that we can be no doubt we cant leave brussels without a mention of the exit british newspapers suggesting in the last few days that there are new overtures being made to Boris Johnson this after the European Union has stressed repeatedly that there is no reopening of the Withdrawal Agreement is the e. U. In the process of blinking at the 11th hour. No we have said and ordered off on the law and has repeatedly continued to say this we want to stay friends with our british neighbors thats not easy in the current political debate especially not easy in the current debate in the u. K. But thats the principle we want to stick to but its obvious that the treaty that we have been negotiating about me and to me government is the treated that is on the table and if you have new people coming into the e. U. And you have a new person to coming into the City Government but the principles behind that treaty dont change its only the one of the 5 European Countries including germany and france allegedly making contact with johnson in order to see what chance there is of a new deal you know as i said the principle that we are having all together and i think its not only these 5 countries all contraceptive European Union wants to stay friends with our british neighbors so the point is that the basic principles of the treaty they are they are they cannot be changed but for sure we have to stay in touch with Boris Johnson and whatever other candidate that may win this battle because we want to make sure that in the long run we stay friendly neighbors we will always be there close to each other and we cannot afford a situation where we are in a bad mood hanging around together we have to face the future together even if the us me was a new overture from the doesnt it otherwise come october. You will both both the e. U. And britain will reach a scenario that none of you wanted none of you want to actually know without a deal exactly does it doesnt say. For the last 3 years its your presumption that there will be maybe a crash out without the d. But its not said the deal is on the table in the u. K. And the next Prime Minister can still subscribe to it all make propositions how we can improve it but despite what theyve said and despite what he has said as change him thats obviously politics you cant in politics discuss about everything but you cannot change the principles of the treaty they must remain and the principles of the treaty are the basics of the treaty but what Boris Johnson or whatever candidate wants to do we have to see when they are in office and good to have you encountered so that you could have. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. To. The touch. Ecoli africa visiting the primate capital of the world. 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