Transcripts For DW Conflict Zone 20240714

Administration my guest this week here in the capital q c now is vladimir chair but current Vice President of the Outgoing Democratic Party and a former Justice Minister with moldova now a by word for corruption you see ashamed of peace partys record in government. Which i will tell you welcome to conduct zone. And place for me here its discussion your party lost the battle to hold on to power but you deserve to lose in the way didnt you because democracy was increasingly undermined under your watch and there was massive corruption which you did very little about so you deserve to go didnt you really depends how to look at that and i would disagree with something related to the corruptions but yes indeed i can say that we have lots of critics related. Democracy it in the sincere republic of moldova the Democratic Partys 102. 00 while undertaking the mandate in the governance in 2016 at youth a lot in social and economical performances being for example the seller is increased in the public area by 70 percent there are excel ariston the pensions are the other year last year you were sure in the world that the Democratic Party was implementing european standards at home thats what you said in september yes here europe was telling a completely different story about you the European Parliament condemned what it called an increasing backsliding on core values related to democratic standards so much for your european standards it also added that moldova was trapped by oligarchic interests with economic and political power in the hands of a small group of people exerting their influence on parliament the government Political Parties state of ministration police and judiciary in other words your assurances about european standards were worthless well no i would disagree with that because in my opinion this was a political statement and we can have different opinions and you display this because it has been done by a Political Group it was based on findings that they discovered when they came here many of the talks that theyve been having a list again did you see did he show any on evaluation or a some some reports regarding to that because they havent seen and everything that could be measured has been measured with a significant progresses bads that is that they want the view of the e. U. The council of europe Freedom House the un the Us State Department Amnesty International oh i see Bertelsmann Foundation there was remarkable unanimity about the state of democracy and corruption in this country from them wasnt but let me please explain otherwise if you want to hear me because while i would have. Those changes i would divide the corruption and i would divide the democracy right because well taking about corruption since 2016 they were the most progress is that ever have been done in republic of lower in fighting corruption was the 1st cases where ministers the Prime Ministers and other very high officials have been prosecuted the u. S. And ordinarily active justice now if selective just while one were talking about the ministers that were in our government i wouldnt say that it was selective because selective means then when you are prosecuting all everyone except your once but it wasnt the case and you also said you undermined the processes the judicial processes thats also led a view of the United States well it was some new shoes well but this is not related more than some issues is that such over. Again there are difficulties in judicial system of course there are but while talking to corruption this was the most fighting period in republic of moldova thats why according to the Public Perception corruption was the 1st one ranked problem in 2016 and it became the 5th one in 2018 due to the efforts that have been put fighting that in march washingtons human rights report effectively highlighted what all the other International Organizations have been saying they highlighted torture in your prisons arrest and detention by the authorities restrictions on freedom of the media and serious attacks on people who stood in the way of your party especially lawyers as one un special rapporteur reported lawyers faced politically motivated criminal charges or were threatened each time they defended people with opinions dissenting from the author or it is you were just dismissed and you signed off on this you were quite happy that should happen that these lawyers should be thrown. Well in. Is very fashionable to start victimizing yourself and to start doing politics while you have some criminal cases on your side. Because for example to do with the charges that well you have this exactly this exactly cases youre referring to 2 cases one of them is related to one attorney a woman that has been committed a crime murder in 191999 the other one is another lawyer they were just referring to 2 cases into cases they refer referring to a pattern the banana i know exactly the cases that theyre reference to and the other case is this case of a lawyer reading koch who has committed bribes and traffic of influence before starting being the lawyer of one of the people that pretended to be politician so this is were talking about 2 cases all of them committed crimes before starting coming into the public area we have a lot of Different Cases to go through mr why was the International Community so keen on seeing you go on june the 14th the United States basically said it was pleased to see you go the state Department Spokesman said the u. S. Welcomes the Democratic Partys announcement that its withdrawing from government in favor of Prime Minister Prime Minister my son will and the coalition formed by the democratically elected parliament the fact is washington couldnt wait to get rid of you could and more importantly it wasnt going to lift a finger to save you was it well no one should place anything has to save anyone politicians or the us it was a Coalition Created that we accepted at the final stage and we transfer the powers of the governance it is could the people who have the comparison of how the car country can be governed by ones and by the others is good for us and we were here all willingly you gave up their rules International Pressure you even got the Constitutional Court to strip the president of his power so that new elections could be called for. If we are talking about that is going to have to see how the. Uncivil since the 7th of june and youll see that we caved to power in a peaceful manner and we give it willingly and we may be the announcements for they said before transferring the power after trying to get the Constitutional Court to step in and call elections thats what you tried to do which isnt tied to step in any Constitutional Court or stuff like that because on monday already which was the 3rd day of that announcement of the Constitutional Court will ready to the decision to transfer the power and then on tuesday which was the 4th day or we already announced that we are willing to stay to discuss how to transfer the power peacefully who trustingly rulings from your Constitutional Court these days after you stuffed it with your own people who trusts the Constitutional Court here most of the people trust because initial court doesnt trust only the ones who doesnt dont like the decisions of that you know report last year the bottles when foundation said that the current Justice System including the general Prosecutors Office the Supreme Court the Supreme Judicial Council and the National Corruption center were largely subordinated to the oligarchy plot look who just happens to be chairman of your Democratic Party although you tell me hes just a down hes Just Announced that hes leave he Just Announced the hurt but thats not a great record you were Justice Minister and you are loud that kind of state can i play i think i didnt tell you i had to get management of the minister of justice in 2015 and the end of the year and at that time already they were the statements that the state is captured by the way 2nd at that time already all the support of European Union in that area has been refused or suspended. I had the conditionalities to approve lots of the reforms in a very short time and id managed to do that in 2 years or even less and it was accepted and recognised now we we have a legislation in the judiciary which is like a piece of the art we have a class of a lot of things to implement to work on training the new judges which have been renewed we have almost 5045 percent of the judge the new ones which came into the system but still we need to train them we need to create uniform practices in that respect and it cannot be done through the night it was a crime down was to stop this to coordinate shouldnt to the chairman of your pa it was worth burning has been found i would deserve a National Attention i would disagree to you to make the assessments and the conclusions based on only on the statements of the parties that were on their position at the time its not because of their own findings and its because today i did actually organizations today saying the same thing today at 2 weeks time since the government has been transferred to the other parties i can say that judiciary is subordinated to the new government why very simple because it was sufficient the new Prime Minister to make some statements and of course have been changing their decisions immediately through the night if this is subordination then you have to accept that there subordinated to the new government as well they want to go we have learnt that it depends how do you sense that the leaders are demanding a bt and of the judiciary is the author or a team is theyve largely syria has been inforced by your policy of using corrupt practices business clan ties and intimidation this was a report of the battles miliband is an artist on the phone well they got it wrong well lets lets then break the law to religious and discuss that i misunderstood lets lets discuss that i just stated that the new government. And it took the control of the judicial rein said its not so if they just made a statement but if they make the statement that you have to revise your decision and to decide like that and the court immediately is doing that what does it means if not subordination in your understanding. In more than 0 you also watch and you watch mr chipper to politicize ation of the judiciary was an instrument which was often used against mr plow looks rivals that was the conclusion of the Bertelsmann Foundation i from 271822800 thanks to your efforts miss World Economic forum ranked moldova 100 and 32nd out of 137 countries as regards the independence of the judiciary are you proud of that record of course i am i am no question im not but i want to take you serious than what they can tell you is that when we took the judiciary i took the judiciary the trust of the people in the jury share was 7 percent and when i left my position of the ministry of justice was 25 percent yes this is not sufficient but in 2 years time to increase is 3 times its something but it turned the seat on a little and say hearty chairman neons knows who they gave their oil the stronger thats what they said and thats wrong they misunderstood they just got it wrong they made up the story is that right is this what youre saying no im not saying that im just saying that i think its some just saying that we had a very poor situation which is not very fantastic today but it has registered a very good improvements in that respect you you deny any wrongdoing by the merits and im not im not saying that its not correct just to state their own doings but it is correct to see how the developments and evolution of all of that what about mr plan look you are probably ganji and you can do certain 2016 that he was made to the most hated man in the country because people need to find somebody to blame thats it hes blameless now we know one is angel in malaysia. Iran the new governments in even the World Governments even democratic parties the members were not the angels as no one is an angel so i wont likely think we are committing mistake was he a crook is he a crook of course its not a crook. Of course its not a crook its a person that has ensured a good and efficient governments from the point of view of the social infrastructure problems yes maybe the party didnt focus too much on democracy and maybe the party didnt focus too much on implementing some reforms like judiciary for example but what is done improving the life of the people is done a lot and even more than many other governments putting together for the last previous 20 years when the new government came in your party chief that was the plan if lead the country along with a Business Partner iran saw he was looking perhaps for friends outside but. He didnt find any duty to find any friends again i would disagree with this statement because he left the country only after transferring peacefully the governance to the to the opposition or to the how did he get out i dont know lets ask him i am not together said that neither the interior ministry nor the border painters have a record of him leaving the main is the the new minister of internal affairs made 3 different statements in just one week and all of them conflict in between each other so i would i wouldnt pay too much price to the statements that he made i understand that hes a new minister but hes committing too much mistaken and is misleading the Public Opinion in that respect probably isnt coming back you see its over everyones had enough of your part lets ask him lets ask him because he is your understanding hes coming back my understanding is that he is coming back as long or when the security arrangements will be done including kurian although you refused for a week to give up your offices didnt you say we officials you appointed refused to obey the new Prime Ministers we are on the 3rd day we already announced for the accounting since 8 of june were already announced that we are willing to have discussions to transfer the governance so i would disagree for a run and you put your supporters into the square and there could have been massive violence because the chance for should be peaceful and not should be should be peaceful but it might not be and it was peaceful and drive to get into the office you wouldnt let me i mean we know they didnt try even to get into the office some of them did now none of where we said none of them didnt try to get into the offices they just made some declarations yes different its good probably to pay one week staying here in those very hard times to turn the stand the situation no one tried and we made all the announcements and invitations to them to Start Talking and this was. Its only server your time is over what means the governesses over it was over on 8 of june this year its over the new government has promised theyll be no revenge im sure you really are already there they already know youre relieved to hear that made any because this is helping them with their inquiries and sorry previous corruption is because the harassments public pressure and revenge already is there many of the people already dismissed the professional people which has no links with the parties have been already dismissed from their positions but if you are there already come on this is a year of saying the u. S. Senate was very reserved do the people the filing of the hearing on different reforms and different projects managed and funding by our Development Partners their professional snow dr nyce like that very thing you did dont they are going to put a spotlight so brutally lets put on the spotlight is going to be rather uncomfortable for us and no its not at all uncomfortable because i see many of the critics they have been done they already be coming to an out opinion because they they criticize not knowing or not going into the details of different projects already and reforms but well see what they will do and its better to judge about them and us in comparison and well see when how the salaries will rise well see how the Infrastructure Projects will go on how the collections of the budget will be done and then we will see who is less corrupted and who is better managing and governing the country the challenge for this government is to dismantle your system of control over the courts and the criminal investigation and body system to which you controlled basically and which were loyal to your Party Chairman from 26 dean. Transparency International Reported your main aim was to concentrate your partys power within the executive criminal investigation bodies and courts it said are used by this party as instruments to intimidate and make loyal political rivals both at central and local level. So this practice is obvious particularly in relation to local councillors and mayors itself that are blackmailed and compelled to join the ruling party that was you im very happy that you are making reference to this specific report because usually takes time to to prepare a report and then to make it public and so as it is dated 2016 it means exactly that there all the data is collected in the previous periods so i will in that case i would just will restate that we took the governance in 2016 only and of course we recognize it was a lot of the problem he says 277 report says that only 17 reports not 20 if you mentioned 16 i said from 2016 they said your main aim was this was a report 2 years ago when you were already in the Justice Department and here lets come to the flash mailing in compelling mayors and local councils to join the ruling party again your plan no no fishel claims in that respect have been done or or submitted by anyone is just its oppositions statement and speculations nothing has been confirmed in time do you think do you think the rest of the world is really that stupid no not a coworker what is going i dont know what was happened just you were in just something just seen war the turn the stand the situations better to have a more indepth look at the everything and having at least while writing this reports at least 2 opinions a placed well we have already quoted from the Us State Department from the European Parliament from trans. Transparency international from the west ca. One of the things that came into your area of control was the prisons. Why did you allow a system of prison hierarchy of convict hierarchy why did you why did the guards collude with the prisoners to control the system inside the prison why well actually this is a legacy which we are a traitor fighting to fix and if you its too much when you are the way to do a lot of things to do it does really yes we did a lot to improve the conditions in imprisonments and now we have only 2 prisons that are in very worst conditions the other ones a place we succeeded to repair and not to be the you know in the poorest conditions that could be 1st the 2nd we succeeded to create a system that cares the people in the terms of the health the medicine treatments and which is absolutely different that it really is the council of europe reported last year that one jail soroka prison though doctor had visited in over a year this was last year no doctor had been there over a year they had for medical orders order lease for 800 people you think thats satisfactory you know of course its not such a strain on your watch that nair fortunate already not on my watch less this is a report last year 28 my last didnt you know lonestar i wasnt a minister of justice you know that you 1700 yes we were but they already admitted that time has been transferred to a non political person and a technocrat since 21717. 00 generally in the position of the minister of justice have been appointed only technocrats the people with very reliable and very trustful in a Public Society an International Community one of them is an expert to nothing venator mission and the one of the International Community you read the reports you see i dont trust anything with be there i. E. Shares it in your pocket its been more than issue lets talk lets. Talking about state corrections lets talk about economical performance and social performances and lets talk about those reports because we focused on those area and there are huge progresses in that respect of course their most criticized areas for initially was a serious economists in jail who were living in conditions which was said to be bordering on the luck shuras they had divan beds kitchenettes fridge is aquariums carpets on the floor widescreen television so somebody in your economy was doing well it wasnt necessarily the poorest section but these people in jail you think that providing a sort of club for senior convicts and criminals theyre not going to as part of the military Justice System and as you said earlier last year european up to european standards where you think in europe you have a presence like this net not at all and lets go to the prisons to see him to understand that i as a told you it is a poor situation in the prisons but it is much better than it was 3 years ago and while certain about the people staying there is a report last year by the council yes but lets see the report 3 years ago and you will see a more poor situation then the last year report and year by year the reports are becoming better and better nothing can be changed our number of progress was a good number of the route none of them of time when you were in government now is why the point i made at the beginning is you deserve to be the good reports to the good reports in the economical area in the social area. None of the questions have been received so far from the area i understand that more plesent is to discuss everything that could be criticised and we agree with you that those are the areas that have been performed poorly and could be better could be done better and theyre doing better but not in there with the speed that we would like it to do because its not easy to do it is very complicated to do philosophy efforts have been put in the respect lots of the investments have been public investments have been put into that area as well but still we have a lot of things to do until everything probably not perfect that acceptable and youre going to work with this new government even though youve already said its illegal you consider the coalition to be illegal we said that it was illegal even at the moment when we transfer the governance but we said we work with it but were going to work whether we said yes because we said at that time you have to fix one deadlock constitutional one. And it has been fixed and immediately as they go station no court has reviewed reversed some of his decisions we said ok now we can enter into the parliament now we can be an opposition real opposition and constructive of all rights thank you michel tara thanks very much for being here thank you. Thank. You. International. Show before journalists discuss the topic of the week. Coming up on quadriga there has been a seismic political shift in turkey after the opposition c. S. P. Party won a vote for marriage in that countrys biggest city istanbul joining us on the abuse International Talk show as we discussed. Quadriga 90 minutes on d w. Its time to take one step further. And face the costs of. Time just such the other nothing and fight for the truth. To overcome boundaries and connection to. Its time for. And you dont really use coming up ahead. Minds. And gemini with w. At any time i dont have any place easy names. Yet i dont like the crowd. To sing along to you as it is to come from super man seats saddam for classic interactive exercises. Like everything is online file and interactive benjamins a frame within w. M r. I i am. I am i am. 50 years since the minding. Sheep was the 1st man to walk on the moon. As a small boy he dreamed of the stars. As a pilot he flew anything no matter of interest. To go to them. As an astronaut he took part in the greatest adventure in history. But he wrote a legend or simply a human being who was neil armstrong. The moon was his destiny starts july 20th on t. W. World leaders are gathering in the japanese city of osaka ahead of fridays g 20 summit the trade war between the United States and china is expected to dominate defense ties and tackling Climate Change are also on the agenda. French police say a man suspected of shooting and wounding 2 people outside of a mosque in the western city of brest has died of a selfinflicted gunshot wound